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replacable batteries
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badgolferman
Jun 18, 2023, 3:53:16 PM6/18/23
to
If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you’re in
luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
portable appliances.
We expect that the phone manufacturers will drag their feet just as some of
them have over charger ports, but the greater ease of maintenance, as well
as extra longevity for phones, can only be a good thing.
https://hackaday.com/2023/06/17/get-back-your-replaceable-batteries-thanks-to-the-eu/
luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
portable appliances.
We expect that the phone manufacturers will drag their feet just as some of
them have over charger ports, but the greater ease of maintenance, as well
as extra longevity for phones, can only be a good thing.
https://hackaday.com/2023/06/17/get-back-your-replaceable-batteries-thanks-to-the-eu/
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 18, 2023, 4:21:50 PM6/18/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 21:53 schrieb badgolferman:
The only downside: It only takes effect as of 2027.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 4:40:56 PM6/18/23
to
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 4:50:43 PM6/18/23
to
...and heavier...
...and harder to seal against moisture, dust and dirt.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 18, 2023, 5:02:28 PM6/18/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 22:50 schrieb Alan:
As Swiss watches prove for decades: Total bullshit again.
badgolferman
Jun 18, 2023, 5:07:32 PM6/18/23
to
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 18, 2023, 5:07:40 PM6/18/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 22:40 schrieb Alan:
The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
they wanted.
You are Troll of the worst kind.
batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
they wanted.
You are Troll of the worst kind.
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 5:23:14 PM6/18/23
to
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 5:23:37 PM6/18/23
to
In article <u6nnba$1o690$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, youąre in
instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, youąre in
> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
> portable appliances.
iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
> portable appliances.
instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 5:23:39 PM6/18/23
to
In article <u6nrmr$1eipn$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
wrote:
> > What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
>
> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
> they wanted.
the industry offers consumers exactly what they want, which are devices
that are thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time,
including phones, laptops, bluetooth headsets & speakers, smoke
detectors, cameras and much more.
not offering consumers what they want would be a very stupid business
decision.
wrote:
> > What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
>
> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
> they wanted.
that are thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time,
including phones, laptops, bluetooth headsets & speakers, smoke
detectors, cameras and much more.
not offering consumers what they want would be a very stupid business
decision.
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 5:23:40 PM6/18/23
to
I'm smart enough for that one all on my own.
:-)
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 5:27:39 PM6/18/23
to
Businesses THRIVE on offering consumers what they want.
Removable batteries are an option...
<https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2021&idBatRemovable=1>
...but most people don't choose them.
Which is why phone manufacturers don't make many models with them.
>
> You are Troll of the worst kind.
>
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 5:43:36 PM6/18/23
to
In article <u6nss8$1oofh$3...@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
>
> Businesses THRIVE on offering consumers what they want.
yep.
>
> Businesses THRIVE on offering consumers what they want.
> Removable batteries are an option...
>
> <https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3?nYearMin=2021&idBatRemovable=1>
>
> ...but most people don't choose them.
>
> Which is why phone manufacturers don't make many models with them.
just phones either.
Alan Browne
Jun 18, 2023, 6:13:55 PM6/18/23
to
battery will either make it harder to seal or bulkier (or both).
IAC, it is a total BS issue as for most phones the battery -is-
replaceable as companies like iFixit prove time and again.
So there are many independent shops that can do it in less than 1 hour
or for those with inclination to do so (me), kits (with tools,
instructions and video instructions) on how to do so.
Even for a late model iPhone 14:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+14+Battery+Replacement/152966
So - like the USB-C legislation - the EU is riding roughshod over things
best managed by the market.
--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase
badgolferman
Jun 18, 2023, 8:28:21 PM6/18/23
to
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <u6nnba$1o690$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
> <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you¹re in
> In article <u6nnba$1o690$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
> <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
>
It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. I’ve watched the
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
>
tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors and sensors and glue
which have to be taken out.
badgolferman
Jun 18, 2023, 8:29:51 PM6/18/23
to
seen a poll asking Apple consumers what they want in their next phone.
Alan
Jun 18, 2023, 8:35:35 PM6/18/23
to
...do you really think that Apple DOESN'T to market research?
Fact:
Successful companies succeed by giving people what they want.
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 8:57:51 PM6/18/23
to
In article <u6o7ht$1ql9h$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It零 Apple which tells consumers what they are going to get.
no, they don't tell anyone anything.
they make products that they think will sell, just like every other
company. if it sells well, they continue with the same basic design. if
not, they make some changes.
> I靶e never
about what features people actually use and what features they would
like to see.
when powerbooks switched from swappable batteries to internal batteries
(roughly 15 years ago, and apple wasn't the only company to do that
either), thereby offering longer run time and a thinner and lighter
weight enclosure, features customers valued, sales went *up* (by a
lot). had sales gone down, they would have revisited that decision. in
fact, a survey at the time (npd) showed that 95% of laptop buyers never
bought a second battery. why offer a feature almost nobody used?
on the other hand, the 3rd gen ipod shuffle was voice controlled, aka
the buttonless shuffle, and sales went down. customers did not like
that, which is why 4th gen ipod shuffle reverted back to essentially
the same design as the 2nd gen.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It零 Apple which tells consumers what they are going to get.
no, they don't tell anyone anything.
they make products that they think will sell, just like every other
company. if it sells well, they continue with the same basic design. if
not, they make some changes.
> I靶e never
> seen a poll asking Apple consumers what they want in their next phone.
the poll is what sells and what does not, along with customer feedback
about what features people actually use and what features they would
like to see.
when powerbooks switched from swappable batteries to internal batteries
(roughly 15 years ago, and apple wasn't the only company to do that
either), thereby offering longer run time and a thinner and lighter
weight enclosure, features customers valued, sales went *up* (by a
lot). had sales gone down, they would have revisited that decision. in
fact, a survey at the time (npd) showed that 95% of laptop buyers never
bought a second battery. why offer a feature almost nobody used?
on the other hand, the 3rd gen ipod shuffle was voice controlled, aka
the buttonless shuffle, and sales went down. customers did not like
that, which is why 4th gen ipod shuffle reverted back to essentially
the same design as the 2nd gen.
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 8:57:52 PM6/18/23
to
In article <u6o7f3$1ql31$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. Iąve watched the
most people get a new phone before the battery needs to be replaced so
it's not anything they're likely to need to do.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. Iąve watched the
> tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors and sensors and glue
> which have to be taken out.
it depends on which model.
> which have to be taken out.
most people get a new phone before the battery needs to be replaced so
it's not anything they're likely to need to do.
Hank Rogers
Jun 18, 2023, 10:05:58 PM6/18/23
to
simpler and easier to service.
nospam
Jun 18, 2023, 10:31:30 PM6/18/23
to
In article <9KOjM.17201$k4z1...@fx17.iad>, Hank Rogers
<ha...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> If my memory serves, he only has very old iphones. They may be
> simpler and easier to service.
your memory has failed.
> If my memory serves, he only has very old iphones. They may be
> simpler and easier to service.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 1:13:15 AM6/19/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 23:23 schrieb nospam:
that anymore.
> In article <u6nrmr$1eipn$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
> wrote:
>
>>> What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
>>
>> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
>> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
>> they wanted.
>
> the industry offers consumers exactly what they want,
The consumer buys always the cheapest but the society does not accept
> wrote:
>
>>> What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
>>
>> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
>> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
>> they wanted.
>
> the industry offers consumers exactly what they want,
that anymore.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 1:16:33 AM6/19/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 23:23 schrieb nospam:
the world about twice per $ GDP than Western Europe. Only China is worse.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 1:18:39 AM6/19/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 23:23 schrieb nospam:
>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you¹re in
>> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 1:37:55 AM6/19/23
to
Chris
Jun 19, 2023, 2:37:10 AM6/19/23
to
thing.
This is why regulation is so important as consumers often don't know what's
good for them and are often exploited/manipulated by large corporations.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 4:25:59 AM6/19/23
to
Am 18.06.23 um 23:23 schrieb nospam:
>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you¹re in
>> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable.
They are not.
>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>> portable appliances.
>
> iphone batteries are easily replaceable.
The elected European Parliament has decided.
The discussion should focus more how to implement it. All manufacturers
have to comply again. Same story like the USB-C mandate.
The opinion of Apple-fanboys is completely irrelevant.
--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 4:28:59 AM6/19/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 08:37 schrieb Chris:
*SIC*
This is the reason why the European legislators are acting.
This is the reason why the European legislators are acting.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 19, 2023, 4:59:26 AM6/19/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 10:28 schrieb Joerg Lorenz:
> Am 19.06.23 um 08:37 schrieb Chris:
>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>> thing.
>>
>> This is why regulation is so important as consumers often don't know what's
>> good for them and are often exploited/manipulated by large corporations.
>
> *SIC*
> This is the reason why the European legislators are acting.
Most people call that leadership btw.
>> thing.
>>
>> This is why regulation is so important as consumers often don't know what's
>> good for them and are often exploited/manipulated by large corporations.
>
> *SIC*
> This is the reason why the European legislators are acting.
Wade Garrett
Jun 19, 2023, 8:39:29 AM6/19/23
to
On 6/18/23 4:50 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2023-06-18 13:21, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 18.06.23 um 21:53 schrieb badgolferman:
--
I know things and I fix stuff
> On 2023-06-18 13:21, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 18.06.23 um 21:53 schrieb badgolferman:
>>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries,
>>> you’re in
>>> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
>>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>>> portable appliances.
>>>
>>> you’re in
>>> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
>>> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
>>> portable appliances.
>>>
>>> We expect that the phone manufacturers will drag their feet just as
>>> some of
>>> them have over charger ports, but the greater ease of maintenance, as
>>> well
>>> as extra longevity for phones, can only be a good thing.
>>>
>>> https://hackaday.com/2023/06/17/get-back-your-replaceable-batteries-thanks-to-the-eu/
>>
>> The only downside: It only takes effect as of 2027.
>>
>
> And it will make devices a little bulkier...
>
> ...and heavier...
>
> ...and harder to seal against moisture, dust and dirt.
Yes, but it's for the children ;-)
>>> some of
>>> them have over charger ports, but the greater ease of maintenance, as
>>> well
>>> as extra longevity for phones, can only be a good thing.
>>>
>>> https://hackaday.com/2023/06/17/get-back-your-replaceable-batteries-thanks-to-the-eu/
>>
>> The only downside: It only takes effect as of 2027.
>>
>
> And it will make devices a little bulkier...
>
> ...and heavier...
>
> ...and harder to seal against moisture, dust and dirt.
--
I know things and I fix stuff
badgolferman
Jun 19, 2023, 8:42:45 AM6/19/23
to
nospam wrote:
>In article <u6o7f3$1ql31$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. I靶e
>In article <u6o7f3$1ql31$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>watched the tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors
>>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
>
>it depends on which model.
>
Take a look at this and tell me how simple it is to use a srewdriver to
>>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
>
>it depends on which model.
>
replace a battery.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+14+Battery+Replacement/152966
--
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." ~ Napoleon
Bonaparte
nospam
Jun 19, 2023, 9:05:47 AM6/19/23
to
In article <u6oo5a$1evdk$1...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
the best selling iphones are the more expensive models (pro & pro max,
not the se).
the best selling smartphones are mostly iphones (with 8 out of the top
10 best selling phones in a recent survey), not the cheapo android
phones.
customers are willing to pay for quality.
wrote:
> >>> What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
> >>
> >> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
> >> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
> >> they wanted.
> >
> > the industry offers consumers exactly what they want,
>
> The consumer buys always the cheapest but the society does not accept
> that anymore.
not always.
> >>> What is wrong with letting consumers decide what they want?
> >>
> >> The society wants a closed recycling system for batteries and better
> >> batteries. The industry was not smart enough to offer the consumers what
> >> they wanted.
> >
> > the industry offers consumers exactly what they want,
>
> The consumer buys always the cheapest but the society does not accept
> that anymore.
the best selling iphones are the more expensive models (pro & pro max,
not the se).
the best selling smartphones are mostly iphones (with 8 out of the top
10 best selling phones in a recent survey), not the cheapo android
phones.
customers are willing to pay for quality.
nospam
Jun 19, 2023, 9:05:48 AM6/19/23
to
In article <u6oofe$1evdl$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
wrote:
> >
> >> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you1re in
which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone for 5 years
and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the event the
battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average needs, it
can be replaced, which would only need to be done once before the user
trades in their phone for a newer and more capable model.
wrote:
> >
> >> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone batteries, you1re in
> >> luck because an EU Parliament vote has approved a set of rules covering
> >> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
> >> portable appliances.
> >
> > iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> > instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> > replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> > any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> > thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
>
> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80% capacity,
> >> batteries among which will be a requirement for replaceable cells in
> >> portable appliances.
> >
> > iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a screwdriver
> > instead of a fingernail, which for something that *might* need to be
> > replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually not at all), is not in
> > any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users benefit from something that's
> > thinner, lighter, more reliable and with longer run time.
>
> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone for 5 years
and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the event the
battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average needs, it
can be replaced, which would only need to be done once before the user
trades in their phone for a newer and more capable model.
nospam
Jun 19, 2023, 9:05:49 AM6/19/23
to
In article <xn0o39ufo...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
batteries for her parents and their friends for something like $10
each.
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. I靶e
> >>watched the tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors
> >>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
> >
> >it depends on which model.
> >
>
> Take a look at this and tell me how simple it is to use a srewdriver to
> replace a battery.
> https://www.ifixit.com/Gu
a few years ago, i met a 10 year old girl who said she replaced iphone
> >> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. I靶e
> >>watched the tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors
> >>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
> >
> >it depends on which model.
> >
>
> Take a look at this and tell me how simple it is to use a srewdriver to
> replace a battery.
> https://www.ifixit.com/Gu
batteries for her parents and their friends for something like $10
each.
badgolferman
Jun 19, 2023, 9:17:48 AM6/19/23
to
nospam wrote:
>In article <u6oofe$1evdl$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
>wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone
>>batteries, you1re in >> luck because an EU Parliament vote has
>>approved a set of rules covering >> batteries among which will be
>>a requirement for replaceable cells in >> portable appliances.
>> >
>> > iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a
>>screwdriver > instead of a fingernail, which for something that
>>might need to be > replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually
>In article <u6oofe$1evdl$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
>wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone
>>batteries, you1re in >> luck because an EU Parliament vote has
>>approved a set of rules covering >> batteries among which will be
>>a requirement for replaceable cells in >> portable appliances.
>> >
>> > iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a
>>screwdriver > instead of a fingernail, which for something that
>>not at all), is not in > any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users
>>benefit from something that's > thinner, lighter, more reliable
>>and with longer run time.
>> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
>
>it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone
>for 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the
>event the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average
>needs, it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once
>before the user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable
>model.
iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it. Even that
>>benefit from something that's > thinner, lighter, more reliable
>>and with longer run time.
>> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
>
>it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone
>for 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the
>event the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average
>needs, it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once
>before the user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable
>model.
link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
to the truth.
badgolferman
Jun 19, 2023, 9:18:31 AM6/19/23
to
nospam wrote:
>In article <xn0o39ufo...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> It takes way more than a screwdriver to replace a battery. Iąve
>In article <xn0o39ufo...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >>watched the tutorial on iFixit and there are several connectors
>> >>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
>> >
>> >it depends on which model.
>> >
>>
>> Take a look at this and tell me how simple it is to use a
>>srewdriver to replace a battery.
>> https://www.ifixit.com/Gu
>
>a few years ago, i met a 10 year old girl who said she replaced iphone
>batteries for her parents and their friends for something like $10
>each.
Yeah, right...
>> >>and sensors and glue which have to be taken out.
>> >
>> >it depends on which model.
>> >
>>
>> Take a look at this and tell me how simple it is to use a
>>srewdriver to replace a battery.
>> https://www.ifixit.com/Gu
>
>a few years ago, i met a 10 year old girl who said she replaced iphone
>batteries for her parents and their friends for something like $10
>each.
--
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and
then don't say it." ~ Sam Levenson
nospam
Jun 19, 2023, 9:33:53 AM6/19/23
to
In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
guarantee. some will last longer and some will be shorter. on average,
the capacity will be 80% of new at 5 years, which is still usable. if a
phone lasts 30 hours on standby when new, it will last 24 hours at 80%,
which is still very good and probably not anything anyone will notice
since they charge overnight and really only need 18 hours or so of run
time. it could actually drop to ~50% capacity with minimal impact.
> Even that
> link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
> to the truth.
ifixit has a vested interest to sell people tools to fix things, so
they overstate how long things last. they also are very meticulous on
their repair guides, and most of the time, it's not as complex as they
describe.
but even using their numbers, someone who keeps their phone for 3-4
years (industry average), they might need to replace their battery once
in that time. if they keep their phone for 5-6 years, they might need
to do it twice. even with their numbers, it's not a big deal.
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
>
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
guarantee. some will last longer and some will be shorter. on average,
the capacity will be 80% of new at 5 years, which is still usable. if a
phone lasts 30 hours on standby when new, it will last 24 hours at 80%,
which is still very good and probably not anything anyone will notice
since they charge overnight and really only need 18 hours or so of run
time. it could actually drop to ~50% capacity with minimal impact.
> Even that
> link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
> to the truth.
they overstate how long things last. they also are very meticulous on
their repair guides, and most of the time, it's not as complex as they
describe.
but even using their numbers, someone who keeps their phone for 3-4
years (industry average), they might need to replace their battery once
in that time. if they keep their phone for 5-6 years, they might need
to do it twice. even with their numbers, it's not a big deal.
Bob Campbell
Jun 19, 2023, 9:58:40 AM6/19/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
> thing.
Whereas governments never extract money from people. I willingly give
> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
> thing.
money to companies. Not the same thing AT ALL as governments TAKING my
money.
> This is why regulation is so important as consumers often don't know what's
> good for them and are often exploited/manipulated by large corporations.
people.
You are a fool if you believe that. Or a socialist. Probably both. Which
explains a lot.
Consumers in a free society have every right to decide what they want to
spend their money on. It is no one else’s business.
Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
out-of-control.
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 12:08:00 PM6/19/23
to
Got it!
Jolly Roger
Jun 19, 2023, 12:10:40 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
and have only replaced batteries between 5-7 years, which means I've
only had it done 4 times in many, many years. I have also supported
numerous clients with iPhones from the original iPhone all the way to
the 14, and having to replace a battery is a relative rarity. Most
people end up upgrading to a newer model before they ever have to
replace a battery. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
You trolls (and yes, you are one along with sms and Arlen's many nyms
and impersonations) love to try to make huge mountains out of mole
hills, and this is one of them.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
> nospam wrote:
>>
>> it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>> capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone for
>> 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the event
>> the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average needs,
>> it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once before the
>> user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable model.
>
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years
Nonsense. I've owned iPhones from the iPhone 3G to the iPhone 13 Pro,
>>
>> it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>> capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone for
>> 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the event
>> the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average needs,
>> it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once before the
>> user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable model.
>
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years
and have only replaced batteries between 5-7 years, which means I've
only had it done 4 times in many, many years. I have also supported
numerous clients with iPhones from the original iPhone all the way to
the 14, and having to replace a battery is a relative rarity. Most
people end up upgrading to a newer model before they ever have to
replace a battery. There are exceptions, but that's the general rule.
You trolls (and yes, you are one along with sms and Arlen's many nyms
and impersonations) love to try to make huge mountains out of mole
hills, and this is one of them.
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
Bob Campbell
Jun 19, 2023, 12:28:36 PM6/19/23
to
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
It all depends on usage. Age has very little to do with it.
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
I have an iPhone 8 plus that is going on 6 years old. Granted, I don’t
use it much these days, but the battery on it is still at 99%. It will
EASILY last another 5 years at this rate.
My current iPhone 12 Pro Max is going on 3 years old. That battery is at
98%. It will EASILY last 5 more years.
No, I don’t stare at my phone all day long. I have iPads and laptops for
home use.
If you don’t abuse them, batteries will last 10 years. Easily. I have an
ancient Dell DJ MP3 player, with a 15GB spinning hard drive. I used to use
that a LOT. It is almost 20 years old. It still works and still holds a
charge.
sticks
Jun 19, 2023, 1:56:24 PM6/19/23
to
much power. They are unfortunately a necessity on a continent that has
for 2000 years tried to repeatedly eliminate each other, but they need
to be reigned in to work on things like feeding the people and making
sure the economy of their nation states continues to work together and
not collapse. This picking of winners with a fine tooth comb reeks of
corruption. It is painful reading the likes of Joerg and Chris speak of
how stupid and gullible the masses are and the need for these rulers and
what they consider leadership.
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 2:34:30 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 09:28, Bob Campbell wrote:
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>
> It all depends on usage. Age has very little to do with it.
>
> I have an iPhone 8 plus that is going on 6 years old. Granted, I don’t
> use it much these days, but the battery on it is still at 99%. It will
> EASILY last another 5 years at this rate.
In contrast, my iPhone 8 is about 5 years old and I had to have the
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>
> It all depends on usage. Age has very little to do with it.
>
> I have an iPhone 8 plus that is going on 6 years old. Granted, I don’t
> use it much these days, but the battery on it is still at 99%. It will
> EASILY last another 5 years at this rate.
battery replaced last year...
...but then I use mine HEAVILY.
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 3:53:35 PM6/19/23
to
--
“If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
-Ronald Coase
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 4:01:09 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 09:33, nospam wrote:
> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>
> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
My current iPhone 11 is nearly 4 years old and is at 90%
> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>
> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
My prior iPhone was an iPhone 6 and was over 80% after more than 5 years.
My SO's iPhone 7 is nearing 7 years old and is over 70%.
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 4:02:45 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
> thing.
Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
> thing.
by not giving good value for the money.
Chris
Jun 19, 2023, 5:48:56 PM6/19/23
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
>
>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>> thing.
>
> Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
> by not giving good value for the money.
And yet many, many companies are well known to provide bad service and yet
> On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
>
>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>> thing.
>
> Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
> by not giving good value for the money.
still exist. Big companies serve their shareholders not customers.
Chris
Jun 19, 2023, 5:48:57 PM6/19/23
to
Chris
Jun 19, 2023, 6:05:53 PM6/19/23
to
Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than you, is
calling people children.
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 6:07:54 PM6/19/23
to
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 6:15:13 PM6/19/23
to
when the competition does better.
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 6:18:24 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 17:48, Chris wrote:
a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 6:22:16 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 18:05, Chris wrote:
> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than you, is
> calling people children.
Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones. Not as
> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than you, is
> calling people children.
trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to replace them
every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is no need to
compromise the rest of the product for that very occasional need for a
battery change.
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 6:24:42 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 18:05, Chris wrote:
>
>> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than
>> you, is
>> calling people children.
>
> Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones. Not as
> trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to replace them
> every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is no need to
> compromise the rest of the product for that very occasional need for a
> battery change.
>
This is a huge point:
> On 2023-06-19 18:05, Chris wrote:
>
>> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than
>> you, is
>> calling people children.
>
> Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones. Not as
> trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to replace them
> every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is no need to
> compromise the rest of the product for that very occasional need for a
> battery change.
>
We're making batteries replaceable...
...when they need to be replaced MAYBE after 4 years of ownership?
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 6:28:03 PM6/19/23
to
Companies that don't provide value to their customers generally don't do
well.
Hank Rogers
Jun 19, 2023, 6:32:56 PM6/19/23
to
Alan
Jun 19, 2023, 6:35:55 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 15:32, Hank Rogers wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-06-19 18:05, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than
>>>> you, is
>>>> calling people children.
>>>
>>> Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones.Â
> Alan wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-06-19 18:05, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> Consumer protections are a thing even in the US; no-one, other than
>>>> you, is
>>>> calling people children.
>>>
>>> Not as trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to
>>> replace them every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is
>>> no need to compromise the rest of the product for that very
>>> occasional need for a battery change.
>>>
>>
>> This is a huge point:
>>
>> We're making batteries replaceable...
>>
>> ...when they need to be replaced MAYBE after 4 years of ownership?
>
> Replaceable batteries are NOT needed, and NOBODY wants them.
>
>
As is easily seen by the complete dearth of phones that offer the option.
>>> replace them every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is
>>> no need to compromise the rest of the product for that very
>>> occasional need for a battery change.
>>>
>>
>> This is a huge point:
>>
>> We're making batteries replaceable...
>>
>> ...when they need to be replaced MAYBE after 4 years of ownership?
>
> Replaceable batteries are NOT needed, and NOBODY wants them.
>
>
Of 1465 phones released in the last 3 years...
...just 69 have removable batteries.
That's less than 5%!
nospam
Jun 19, 2023, 7:24:34 PM6/19/23
to
In article <u6qkj8$269h7$2...@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote:
> > Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones. Not as
> > trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to replace them
> > every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is no need to
> > compromise the rest of the product for that very occasional need for a
> > battery change.
> >
>
> This is a huge point:
>
> We're making batteries replaceable...
>
> ...when they need to be replaced MAYBE after 4 years of ownership?
and in doing so, it would make the phone thicker, heavier, shorter run
> > Batteries are already replaceable in almost all portable phones. Not as
> > trivially as, eg, a flashlight, but then you only need to replace them
> > every 4 or 5 years (longer in my experience) so there is no need to
> > compromise the rest of the product for that very occasional need for a
> > battery change.
> >
>
> This is a huge point:
>
> We're making batteries replaceable...
>
> ...when they need to be replaced MAYBE after 4 years of ownership?
time and less reliable.
Alan Browne
Jun 19, 2023, 8:18:32 PM6/19/23
to
On 2023-06-19 16:01, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 09:33, nospam wrote:
>> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>>
>> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
>
> My current iPhone 11 is nearly 4 years old and is at 90%
>
> My prior iPhone was an iPhone 6 and was over 80% after more than 5 years.
>
> My SO's iPhone 7 is nearing 7 years old and is over 70%.
Correction: SO's iPhone 7 at near 7 years old is at 82%.
> On 2023-06-19 09:33, nospam wrote:
>> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>>
>> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
>
> My current iPhone 11 is nearly 4 years old and is at 90%
>
> My prior iPhone was an iPhone 6 and was over 80% after more than 5 years.
>
> My SO's iPhone 7 is nearing 7 years old and is over 70%.
Bob Campbell
Jun 19, 2023, 8:28:30 PM6/19/23
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 16:01, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 09:33, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>>>
>>> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
>>
>> My current iPhone 11 is nearly 4 years old and is at 90%
>>
>> My prior iPhone was an iPhone 6 and was over 80% after more than 5 years.
>>
>> My SO's iPhone 7 is nearing 7 years old and is over 70%.
>
> Correction: SO's iPhone 7 at near 7 years old is at 82%.
So, clearly, iPhone batteries DO last for 5 years.
> On 2023-06-19 16:01, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 09:33, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
>>> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>>>
>>> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
>>
>> My current iPhone 11 is nearly 4 years old and is at 90%
>>
>> My prior iPhone was an iPhone 6 and was over 80% after more than 5 years.
>>
>> My SO's iPhone 7 is nearing 7 years old and is over 70%.
>
> Correction: SO's iPhone 7 at near 7 years old is at 82%.
Another absurd claim, shot down.
Leonard Blaisdell
Jun 20, 2023, 1:11:36 AM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-19, badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it. Even that
running fine. In fairness, it mostly sits in a purse and acts as a
server for our other Apple devices.
But that's a fact.
When I buy another iPhone, it will be for the bells and whistles, not
the battery.
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it. Even that
> link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
> to the truth.
Yeah, they do. I have a XS Max bought in December of 2018 that's still
> to the truth.
running fine. In fairness, it mostly sits in a purse and acts as a
server for our other Apple devices.
But that's a fact.
When I buy another iPhone, it will be for the bells and whistles, not
the battery.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 1:21:47 AM6/20/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 15:17 schrieb badgolferman:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <u6oofe$1evdl$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone
>>> batteries, you1re in >> luck because an EU Parliament vote has
>>> approved a set of rules covering >> batteries among which will be
>>> a requirement for replaceable cells in >> portable appliances.
>>>>
>>>> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a
>>> screwdriver > instead of a fingernail, which for something that
>>> might need to be > replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually
>>> not at all), is not in > any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users
>>> benefit from something that's > thinner, lighter, more reliable
>>> and with longer run time.
>>> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
Apple states:
The Battery Health screen includes information on maximum battery
capacity and peak performance capability.
Maximum battery capacity measures the device battery capacity relative
to when it was new. A battery will have lower capacity as the battery
chemically ages which may result in fewer hours of usage between
charges. Depending upon the length of time between when the iPhone was
made and when it is activated, your battery capacity may show as
slightly less than 100%.
A normal battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original
capacity at 500 complete charge cycles when operating under normal
conditions. The one-year warranty includes service coverage for a
defective battery. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers battery
service for a charge. Learn more about charge cycles.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <u6oofe$1evdl$2...@solani.org>, Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you hanker for the days of replaceable mobile phone
>>> batteries, you1re in >> luck because an EU Parliament vote has
>>> approved a set of rules covering >> batteries among which will be
>>> a requirement for replaceable cells in >> portable appliances.
>>>>
>>>> iphone batteries are easily replaceable. it just takes a
>>> screwdriver > instead of a fingernail, which for something that
>>> might need to be > replaced once in the device's lifetime (usually
>>> not at all), is not in > any way an obstacle. meanwhile, users
>>> benefit from something that's > thinner, lighter, more reliable
>>> and with longer run time.
>>> That is simply wrong and even a deliberate lie, Troll.
>>
>> it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>> capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone
>> for 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the
>> event the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average
>> needs, it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once
>> before the user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable
>> model.
>
>> it's exactly correct. the battery is rated for 5 years at 80%
>> capacity, which is still excellent. most people don't keep a phone
>> for 5 years and will not need to replace the battery at all. in the
>> event the battery wears out sooner, or the user has more than average
>> needs, it can be replaced, which would only need to be done once
>> before the user trades in their phone for a newer and more capable
>> model.
>
> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it. Even that
> link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
> to the truth.
That is completely wrong.
> link to iFixit which I posted claims 18-24 months which is much closer
> to the truth.
Apple states:
The Battery Health screen includes information on maximum battery
capacity and peak performance capability.
Maximum battery capacity measures the device battery capacity relative
to when it was new. A battery will have lower capacity as the battery
chemically ages which may result in fewer hours of usage between
charges. Depending upon the length of time between when the iPhone was
made and when it is activated, your battery capacity may show as
slightly less than 100%.
A normal battery is designed to retain up to 80% of its original
capacity at 500 complete charge cycles when operating under normal
conditions. The one-year warranty includes service coverage for a
defective battery. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers battery
service for a charge. Learn more about charge cycles.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 1:23:11 AM6/20/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 15:33 schrieb nospam:
models depending on the size of the battery:
> In article <xn0o39vee...@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> iPhone batteries DO NOT last for five years and you know it.
>
>
> as i said, they're *rated* for 5 years at 80%. that's a rating, not a
No, it is not because 500 cycles means different things with different
models depending on the size of the battery:
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 2:39:12 AM6/20/23
to
when there's so much wrong with US government where they're not doing
enough. That's also an outrage
It all comes down to perspective.
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 2:59:35 AM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-19 23:39, Chris wrote:
choices you think are correct.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 3:25:22 AM6/20/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 15:58 schrieb Bob Campbell:
> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
> out-of-control.
Bobby *you* get out of control!
> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
> out-of-control.
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 5:29:57 AM6/20/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 19:56 schrieb sticks:
fundamentals. And you should know that. And you have no say in this
matter anyway. And your excitement is absolutely futile. You will just
benefit by buying better electronic equipment and better protection of
the environment.
The EU is more democratic and has more legitimacy than any other
gouverment of a region or country of this size, namely the US and China.
--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)
> On 6/19/2023 8:58 AM, Bob Campbell wrote:
>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>> out-of-control.
>
> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
> much power.
That is none of your business and you do not understand the underlying
>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>> out-of-control.
>
> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
> much power.
fundamentals. And you should know that. And you have no say in this
matter anyway. And your excitement is absolutely futile. You will just
benefit by buying better electronic equipment and better protection of
the environment.
The EU is more democratic and has more legitimacy than any other
gouverment of a region or country of this size, namely the US and China.
--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 5:35:10 AM6/20/23
to
Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
*Alea iacta est*
> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
*Alea iacta est*
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 5:40:34 AM6/20/23
to
Am 19.06.23 um 23:48 schrieb Chris:
Which is particularly true for large US-corporations which do not care
about their responsibility for the society and let alone their clients.
about their responsibility for the society and let alone their clients.
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 6:08:08 AM6/20/23
to
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 6:11:59 AM6/20/23
to
Firstly, it's companies that are being regulated not people. Secondly, it's
not my choice to decide what's correct or otherwise. I mostly trust
governments to do as they've been mandated to do. That's the point of
democracy. If we don't like it they get voted out. Simple.
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 8:54:51 AM6/20/23
to
>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> It's funny you consider USB-C cables regulation as government overstepping
> when there's so much wrong with US government where they're not doing
> enough. That's also an outrage
>
> It all comes down to perspective.
That the US government doesn't do enough in some areas (environment
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> It's funny you consider USB-C cables regulation as government overstepping
> when there's so much wrong with US government where they're not doing
> enough. That's also an outrage
>
> It all comes down to perspective.
comes to mind) doesn't make the EU over-regulating on USB-C and
batteries "right".
PS: I am not in the US.
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 9:03:16 AM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-20 05:35, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
Quite right that I have no voice in it.
> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
But I will be affected by it. The EU is imposing bad standards where
the market sorts these things out automatically.
This is less egregious for the connector, but for batteries, which last
many years, it is absolutely silly to make them user replaceable as that
will compromise sealing and/or batter life and/or battery size and/or
device size. These are things that the market should decide - not
bureaucrats in Europe.
Batteries for most phones go well over 5 years. Going to a shop to get
the battery replaced is no big deal. Or order a kit from iFixit and do
it yourself.
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 9:04:00 AM6/20/23
to
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 9:05:14 AM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-20 06:11, Chris wrote:
> governments to do as they've been mandated to do. That's the point of
> democracy. If we don't like it they get voted out. Simple.
These rules once in place will never be corrected democratically.
> governments to do as they've been mandated to do. That's the point of
> democracy. If we don't like it they get voted out. Simple.
sticks
Jun 20, 2023, 10:39:17 AM6/20/23
to
On 6/20/2023 4:29 AM, George wrote:
> Am 19.06.23 um 19:56 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/19/2023 8:58 AM, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>>> out-of-control.
>>
>> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
>> much power.
>
> That is none of your business and you do not understand the underlying
> fundamentals.
What a stupid thing to say. It's also unclear if you mean I don't
> Am 19.06.23 um 19:56 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/19/2023 8:58 AM, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>>> out-of-control.
>>
>> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
>> much power.
>
> That is none of your business and you do not understand the underlying
> fundamentals.
understand the fundamentals of the EU or this specific regulation.
You'd be wrong on both accounts.
> And you should know that. And you have no say in this
> matter anyway.
or alternative ideas, that's obvious. Just because I don't get to vote,
does not mean I cannot have an opinion. Especially on Usenet, or would
you like that right controlled, too?
> And your excitement is absolutely futile.
right to the throat as usual and your petulance is noted.
> You will just
> benefit by buying better electronic equipment and better protection of
> the environment.
method of attaining those goals, and if in fact they are actually
better, fair, achievable, and brought forth without corruption.
> The EU is more democratic and has more legitimacy than any other
> gouverment of a region or country of this size, namely the US and China.
As I said, I am not against the EU. Setting aside your distasteful
> gouverment of a region or country of this size, namely the US and China.
lumping of the US alongside China, your statement is a personal matter
of opinion. It's also irrelevant. That said, I do hope the EU survives
it's infancy. The world has contributed so much to it's survival and
can do without another big conflict.
sticks
Jun 20, 2023, 10:52:49 AM6/20/23
to
On 6/20/2023 4:35 AM, George wrote:
> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
And yet if it weren't for the ERP, what we call the Marshall Plan, the
> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>
> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
continent would have either frozen or starved to death. Or how
Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin divided up and protected your land,
after fighting for it with our young men, at Yalta to force some peace?
How soon we forget. George now thinks nobody else gets to have an
opinion.
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 11:21:05 AM6/20/23
to
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 11:22:32 AM6/20/23
to
Companies may be the ones who have to build what the regulations say,
but the EFFECT is to control consumer choice.
So you DON'T thing this is a good idea?
Joerg Lorenz
Jun 20, 2023, 11:48:58 AM6/20/23
to
Am 20.06.23 um 16:52 schrieb sticks:
And this has what to do with replaceable batteries which the EU requests
as of 2027 beyond the fact that the white Americans executed the biggest
genocide of all times by eliminating and terrorizing all indigenous
tribes in North America and still commit these crimes? Still stealing
their land and their identity.
Do you understand now how stupid your arguments are? *You* have nothing
to say in this matter and you, anonymous Troll, have no moral right to
lecture here or anywhere else.
as of 2027 beyond the fact that the white Americans executed the biggest
genocide of all times by eliminating and terrorizing all indigenous
tribes in North America and still commit these crimes? Still stealing
their land and their identity.
Do you understand now how stupid your arguments are? *You* have nothing
to say in this matter and you, anonymous Troll, have no moral right to
lecture here or anywhere else.
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 2:58:50 PM6/20/23
to
...when battery technology will undoubtedly be even better than today...
...where smartphones MIGHT need one battery replacement for their entire
useful life...
...and you think that's a sensible use of government power?
LOOLOLOLOLLOLOLOL!
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 2:59:59 PM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-20 02:29, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 19.06.23 um 19:56 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/19/2023 8:58 AM, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>>> out-of-control.
>>
>> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
>> much power.
>
> That is none of your business and you do not understand the underlying
> fundamentals. And you should know that. And you have no say in this
> matter anyway. And your excitement is absolutely futile. You will just
> benefit by buying better electronic equipment and better protection of
> the environment.
>
Where by "better" you mean:
> Am 19.06.23 um 19:56 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/19/2023 8:58 AM, Bob Campbell wrote:
>>> Yeah man, I really want governments telling me what to buy. Telling
>>> companies which connectors and batteries their products should have. That
>>> is NOT “leadership”. It is a sign of a government that is WAY
>>> out-of-control.
>>
>> Agree completely. The EU is a bunch of globalist leftists with way too
>> much power.
>
> That is none of your business and you do not understand the underlying
> fundamentals. And you should know that. And you have no say in this
> matter anyway. And your excitement is absolutely futile. You will just
> benefit by buying better electronic equipment and better protection of
> the environment.
>
Slightly heavier...
...slightly bulkier...
...less resistant to moisture ingress...
...and more expensive.
Got it.
Bob Campbell
Jun 20, 2023, 3:11:04 PM6/20/23
to
Alan <nuh...@nope.com> wrote
know-nothing-bureaucrats do the designing.
Instead of people who actually know what they are doing. You know, like
engineers.
>
> Where by "better" you mean:
>
> Slightly heavier...
>
> ...slightly bulkier...
>
> ...less resistant to moisture ingress...
>
> ...and more expensive.
>
> Got it.
Which is always the kind of “better” you get when government
> Where by "better" you mean:
>
> Slightly heavier...
>
> ...slightly bulkier...
>
> ...less resistant to moisture ingress...
>
> ...and more expensive.
>
> Got it.
know-nothing-bureaucrats do the designing.
Instead of people who actually know what they are doing. You know, like
engineers.
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 3:38:56 PM6/20/23
to
Listen to any consumer podcast, radio programme or TV show and every time
they have stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
for a ride by companies. We have laws and regulations to help people which
is normal and natural.
You're wanting to reduce it down to "calling people children".
badgolferman
Jun 20, 2023, 3:41:40 PM6/20/23
to
Chris wrote:
>stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
>for a ride by companies.
I don't know, my paycheck shows me something different...
>stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
>for a ride by companies.
--
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 3:50:00 PM6/20/23
to
probably, on balance, it's unnecessary. My main reason for joining this
thread was to counteract your "fact" about successful companies.
Many times consumers have been shafted by companies and only the only orgs
with people's interests at heart are charities or (some) governments. I'm a
strong believer that the EC is, on the whole, for consumers and citizens.
Yes regulation stifles competition to a degree and that's a good thing.
Rampant capitalism is harmful on many levels.
There's a reason why the biggest companies are in the US; they're allowed
to exploit people whether it's their employees or customers or clients.
Chris
Jun 20, 2023, 3:57:36 PM6/20/23
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 17:48, Chris wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-06-19 17:48, Chris wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>> On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
>>> by not giving good value for the money.
>>
>> And yet many, many companies are well known to provide bad service and yet
>> still exist. Big companies serve their shareholders not customers.
>
> Bleak attitude. Companies that treat their clients poorly disappear
>>> by not giving good value for the money.
>>
>> And yet many, many companies are well known to provide bad service and yet
>> still exist. Big companies serve their shareholders not customers.
>
> when the competition does better.
Really? How come microsoft are still here?
Bob Campbell
Jun 20, 2023, 4:04:51 PM6/20/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Listen to any consumer podcast, radio programme or TV show and every time
> they have stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
> for a ride by companies.
Which are always local home repair/appliance repair/auto repair companies,
> Listen to any consumer podcast, radio programme or TV show and every time
> they have stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
> for a ride by companies.
etc. NOT billion dollar, world famous, multinational consumer products
companies.
No one is being “scammed or losing money or being taken for a ride” when
buying a name-brand product of any kind. No one is saying that Samsung
refridgerators are a scam. No one is losing money from buying Apple
headphones. No one is being taken for a ride from buying a G.E. toaster
oven.
There are plenty of choices on the market. You buy whatever you like and
can afford. You can also return the product to where you bought it within
30 days and get your money back.
Bob Campbell
Jun 20, 2023, 4:10:57 PM6/20/23
to
Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 17:48, Chris wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
>>>> by not giving good value for the money.
>>>
>>> And yet many, many companies are well known to provide bad service and yet
>>> still exist. Big companies serve their shareholders not customers.
>>
>> Bleak attitude. Companies that treat their clients poorly disappear
>> when the competition does better.
>
> Really? How come microsoft are still here?
Because businesses depend on them, and there is no competition in that
> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-06-19 17:48, Chris wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-06-19 02:37, Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Successful companies are good at extracting money from people. Not the same
>>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> Successful companies also have to earn repeat sales - you don't do that
>>>> by not giving good value for the money.
>>>
>>> And yet many, many companies are well known to provide bad service and yet
>>> still exist. Big companies serve their shareholders not customers.
>>
>> Bleak attitude. Companies that treat their clients poorly disappear
>> when the competition does better.
>
> Really? How come microsoft are still here?
space.
Consumers long ago abandoned Microsoft because they have no
consumer-friendly products. Which explains why Apple is doing so well in
the consumer space.
sticks
Jun 20, 2023, 4:12:49 PM6/20/23
to
On 6/20/2023 2:49 PM, Chris wrote:
> There's a reason why the biggest companies are in the US; they're allowed
> to exploit people whether it's their employees or customers or clients.
Heh, what an unintelligent thing to say. I guess we can expect all the
> There's a reason why the biggest companies are in the US; they're allowed
> to exploit people whether it's their employees or customers or clients.
smaller companies around the world to flock to the US then. ROFL!
badgolferman
Jun 20, 2023, 4:44:03 PM6/20/23
to
Bob Campbell wrote:
>Consumers long ago abandoned Microsoft because they have no
>consumer-friendly products. Which explains why Apple is doing so
>well in the consumer space.
Windows, Office, Azure.
>Consumers long ago abandoned Microsoft because they have no
>consumer-friendly products. Which explains why Apple is doing so
>well in the consumer space.
Yeah, Microsoft is way behind Apple....
Bob Campbell
Jun 20, 2023, 5:30:18 PM6/20/23
to
I said Microsoft has no consumer-friendly products. If you think Windows,
Office and Azure are consumer products, then I can’t help you.
OTOH, Apple has no business products do they? So Apple is way ahead of MS
in the consumer space, and MS is way ahead of Apple in the corporate space.
Both companies know their strengths, and concentrate on those. Which is
what well-managed companies do.
No one took Windows phones and music streaming services seriously. Which
is Windows phones and music streaming services are long gone.
Do you really think anyone would take an Oracle server from Apple
seriously?
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 5:55:51 PM6/20/23
to
On 2023-06-20 15:49, Chris wrote:
> Yes regulation stifles competition to a degree and that's a good thing.
Stifling competition is never a good idea.
> Yes regulation stifles competition to a degree and that's a good thing.
> Rampant capitalism is harmful on many levels.
regulations.
Alan Browne
Jun 20, 2023, 5:56:37 PM6/20/23
to
sticks
Jun 20, 2023, 8:04:32 PM6/20/23
to
On 6/20/2023 10:48 AM, George wrote:
> Am 20.06.23 um 16:52 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/20/2023 4:35 AM, George wrote:
>>> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>>>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>>>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>>>
>>> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
>>> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
>>> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
>>
>> And yet if it weren't for the ERP, what we call the Marshall Plan, the
>> continent would have either frozen or starved to death. Or how
>> Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin divided up and protected your land,
>> after fighting for it with our young men, at Yalta to force some peace?
>> How soon we forget. George now thinks nobody else gets to have an
>> opinion.
>
> And this has what to do with replaceable batteries which the EU requests
> as of 2027
You've made a point of saying someone like me really shouldn't be
> Am 20.06.23 um 16:52 schrieb sticks:
>> On 6/20/2023 4:35 AM, George wrote:
>>> Am 20.06.23 um 00:18 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> People should react when governments go too far in regulation. There is
>>>> a balance between too little and too much - and the EU proposed rules
>>>> are too much - just as the USB-C rule.
>>>
>>> The thing is that on the Continent nobody cares about your opinion or
>>> any unqualified opinion from the US/UK. You do not pay taxes here and
>>> you have no right to vote or elect anybody.
>>
>> And yet if it weren't for the ERP, what we call the Marshall Plan, the
>> continent would have either frozen or starved to death. Or how
>> Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin divided up and protected your land,
>> after fighting for it with our young men, at Yalta to force some peace?
>> How soon we forget. George now thinks nobody else gets to have an
>> opinion.
>
> And this has what to do with replaceable batteries which the EU requests
> as of 2027
allowed an opinion. I find that ludicrous. Of course I don't vote for
any of the elected members, but that should not make discussion off
limits. Debate is always useful, except when it's done the way you do.
Where any opposing view is to be silenced.
I also don't personally choose to separate our people like you and
others do. I love Europe and studying it's history. I've still got
family there. As far as I'm concerned, though we have different
governments, we have much in common beyond just our heritage. These
regulations proposed by the EU effect the entire world, as you have
said, though not with that intent. You just think we'll get better
phones because business will have to conform.
> beyond the fact that the white Americans executed the biggest
> genocide of all times by eliminating and terrorizing all indigenous
> tribes in North America and still commit these crimes? Still stealing
> their land and their identity.
long history of our countries working together and that those sacrifices
might allow someone like me to think we had the right to an opinion on
legislation that affects a large portion of society. You throw the bomb
of an incredibly complex situation regarding the Native North Americans,
claim it is ongoing, and somehow that too dissolves my right to an
opinion on an unrelated matter. What a piece of work you are! Shameful.
> Do you understand now how stupid your arguments are? *You* have nothing
> to say in this matter and you, anonymous Troll, have no moral right to
> lecture here or anywhere else.
don't have the right to one. Of course, I could care less what you
think, and at this point I find you somewhat amusing. I might
participate with some of the adults in this thread on some of the ways I
dislike this legislation, but it would be pointless with you. At least
this thread has borne that out.
sticks
Jun 20, 2023, 8:09:31 PM6/20/23
to
On 6/20/2023 1:58 PM, Alan wrote:
> So the EU is mandating removable batteries to come in in 4 years...
>
> ...when battery technology will undoubtedly be even better than today...
>
> ...where smartphones MIGHT need one battery replacement for their entire
> useful life...
>
> ...and you think that's a sensible use of government power?
Another thing I find distasteful is the requirement in the recyclable
> So the EU is mandating removable batteries to come in in 4 years...
>
> ...when battery technology will undoubtedly be even better than today...
>
> ...where smartphones MIGHT need one battery replacement for their entire
> useful life...
>
> ...and you think that's a sensible use of government power?
materials that all this work be done to fulfill the use of certain
percentages among other things, but that it all has to be done at no
cost to the end user.
I find it remarkable that a governing body can tell a business that they
cannot charge anything for something, especially when it is something
they are mandating.
Alan
Jun 20, 2023, 8:50:47 PM6/20/23
to
anyone?
Chris
Jun 21, 2023, 2:45:42 AM6/21/23
to
heart, which is where regulation comes in.
Chris
Jun 21, 2023, 2:51:46 AM6/21/23
to
Bob Campbell <nu...@none.none> wrote:
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Listen to any consumer podcast, radio programme or TV show and every time
>> they have stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
>> for a ride by companies.
>
> Which are always local home repair/appliance repair/auto repair companies,
> etc. NOT billion dollar, world famous, multinational consumer products
> companies.
Not explicitly, but choices are made for them without consultation.
> Chris <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Listen to any consumer podcast, radio programme or TV show and every time
>> they have stories of people being scammed or losing money or being taken
>> for a ride by companies.
>
> Which are always local home repair/appliance repair/auto repair companies,
> etc. NOT billion dollar, world famous, multinational consumer products
> companies.
Airlines and insurance companies are often cited examples of bad behaviour.
> No one is being “scammed or losing money or being taken for a ride” when
> buying a name-brand product of any kind. No one is saying that Samsung
> refridgerators are a scam. No one is losing money from buying Apple
> headphones. No one is being taken for a ride from buying a G.E. toaster
> oven.
>
> There are plenty of choices on the market. You buy whatever you like and
> can afford. You can also return the product to where you bought it within
> 30 days and get your money back.
aren't bad examples that need regulating.
Do you think the market brought the right to your money back or two years
warranty?
Chris
Jun 21, 2023, 3:02:39 AM6/21/23
to
Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2023-06-20 15:49, Chris wrote:
>
>> Yes regulation stifles competition to a degree and that's a good thing.
>
> Stifling competition is never a good idea.
I disagree.
> On 2023-06-20 15:49, Chris wrote:
>
>> Yes regulation stifles competition to a degree and that's a good thing.
>
> Stifling competition is never a good idea.
>> Rampant capitalism is harmful on many levels.
>
> Why there are regulations. Problem is governments putting in too many
> regulations.
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