Review of Free SynciOS App

[Zaidy036]

"SynciOS takes over for iTunes"

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038214/review-syncios-takes-over-for-itunes.html#tk.nl_app
--
Zaidy036

[nospam]

In article <kn5ghm$gcj$1...@dont-email.me>, Zaidy036 <Zaid...@isp.spam>
wrote:

> "SynciOS takes over for iTunes"
>
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038214/review-syncios-takes-over-for-itunes.ht
> ml#tk.nl_app

how does it 'take over' when it doesn't do all of what itunes does?

[nospam]

In article <michelle-44454E...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> > > "SynciOS takes over for iTunes"
> > >
> > > http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038214/review-syncios-takes-over-for-it

> > > unes. ht ml#tk.nl_app

> >
> > how does it 'take over' when it doesn't do all of what itunes does?
>

> And even requires iTunes to be installed in order to operate?

it does? missed that part. that's even more stupid.

> BTW, for those who haven't read the article yet, it's strictly for Windows,
> not for the Mac.

many windows users tend to hate itunes.

[badgolferman]

Zaidy036 wrote:

>"SynciOS takes over for iTunes"
>
>http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038214/review-syncios-takes-over-for-itunes.html#tk.nl_app

Thank you. Thank you. Finally something that will replace the useless
functionality of iTunes for me.

I'll report back later on its usability.

[Rod Speed]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:170520131408542405%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win users.

[nospam]

In article <avnfjt...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> BTW, for those who haven't read the article yet, it's strictly for
> >> Windows, not for the Mac.
> >
> > many windows users tend to hate itunes.
>
> Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win users.

the interface isn't the problem.

the problem is that itunes on windows has a lot of overhead because
it's written on top of qtml with shared code from mac os.

cross platform apps rarely work well on all platforms. there is always
a 'home advantage'.

[Davoud]

nospam:

> > many windows users tend to hate itunes.

Michelle Steiner:
> That's quite evident from the comments I've seen here; I wrote that so Mac
> users won't bother to read it unless they want to anyway.

Well, yeah! My not inconsiderable experience assisting Windows users
with their iThingies shows two unexpected sources of confusion from the
viewpoint of the Windows user: iTunes works, and it's easy to use.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Davoud]

nospam:

> >> > many windows users tend to hate itunes.

Rod Speed:

> Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win users.

Windows users are suddenly in need of an intuitive user interface? "To
stop, click Start" is no longer good enough?

[Alan Browne]

Not a few Mac users hate iTunes as well.


--
"A Canadian is someone who knows how to have sex in a canoe."
-Pierre Berton

[nospam]

In article <huudnZ-SLaMzPwvM...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> > many windows users tend to hate itunes.
>
> Not a few Mac users hate iTunes as well.

some do, but not as many as on windows, and usually for very different
reasons.

mac users don't like it because it steals focus, doesn't handle clicks
properly, doesn't show app updates properly, sends old versions of apps
instead of the new version (although that's partly server side) and
many, many other bugs.

you don't hear stuff like "it's slow" or "it rearranged my hard drive
without asking."

[Alan Browne]

On 2013.05.17 17:51 , nospam wrote:
> In article <huudnZ-SLaMzPwvM...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.
>>
>> Not a few Mac users hate iTunes as well.
>
> some do, but not as many as on windows, and usually for very different
> reasons.
>
> mac users don't like it because it steals focus, doesn't handle clicks
> properly, doesn't show app updates properly, sends old versions of apps
> instead of the new version (although that's partly server side) and
> many, many other bugs.

... to say the least. Beyond the 'bugs' there's also the poor layout of
the program, poor UI and the basic fact that the program has grown
willy-nilly beyond it's original scope by adding functions that are not
relevant to its original purpose.

Like a bloated and inefficient company, its parts should be spun off
into tidier, more efficient and clearly focused entities.

[nospam]

In article <PcWdnZ1WJ4GoNQvM...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> >>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.
> >>
> >> Not a few Mac users hate iTunes as well.
> >
> > some do, but not as many as on windows, and usually for very different
> > reasons.
> >
> > mac users don't like it because it steals focus, doesn't handle clicks
> > properly, doesn't show app updates properly, sends old versions of apps
> > instead of the new version (although that's partly server side) and
> > many, many other bugs.
>
> ... to say the least. Beyond the 'bugs' there's also the poor layout of
> the program, poor UI and the basic fact that the program has grown
> willy-nilly beyond it's original scope by adding functions that are not
> relevant to its original purpose.

i don't find the layout or ui to be a problem.

itunes 11 is definitely worse, but the dislike for itunes goes back
well before itunes 11.

> Like a bloated and inefficient company, its parts should be spun off
> into tidier, more efficient and clearly focused entities.

yes, it's bloated but splitting it into many different apps has its own
set of drawbacks.

there's something to be said for having one app to sync everything
rather than having to launch a bunch of apps, even if that is done
behind the scenes.

on the other hand, one time functions, such as firmware updating,
activating devices, etc, should be split off into in a separate app.

[nospam]

In article <PcWdnZ1WJ4GoNQvM...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> > mac users don't like it because it steals focus, doesn't handle clicks
> > properly, doesn't show app updates properly, sends old versions of apps
> > instead of the new version (although that's partly server side) and
> > many, many other bugs.
>
> ... to say the least. Beyond the 'bugs' there's also the poor layout of
> the program, poor UI and the basic fact that the program has grown
> willy-nilly beyond it's original scope by adding functions that are not
> relevant to its original purpose.

here's an itunes bug that just makes one shake their head in disbelief:

<http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/itunes/index.html>
The new iTunes 11.0.3 window is not resizable horizontally if the
system language is set to Spanish. Maybe if it's set to anything
other than English.

I've filed a bug report with Apple.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> BTW, for those who haven't read the article
>>>> yet, it's strictly for Windows, not for the Mac.

>>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.

>> Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win
>> users.

> the interface isn't the problem.

It is the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

> the problem is that itunes on windows has a lot of overhead
> because it's written on top of qtml with shared code from mac os.

That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

Its performance is essentially limited by the speed
of the connection between the PC and device etc.

> cross platform apps rarely work well on all platforms.
> there is always a 'home advantage'.

That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

[nospam]

In article <avoais...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:


> >>>> BTW, for those who haven't read the article
> >>>> yet, it's strictly for Windows, not for the Mac.
>
> >>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.
>
> >> Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win
> >> users.
>
> > the interface isn't the problem.
>
> It is the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

you speak for all windows users?

> > the problem is that itunes on windows has a lot of overhead
> > because it's written on top of qtml with shared code from mac os.
>
> That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.
>
> Its performance is essentially limited by the speed
> of the connection between the PC and device etc.

nope. the performance problems are due to lots of legacy code and being
written on top of qtml.

parts of the database code, for instance, date back to when a few
thousand songs was 'a lot'. itunes is constantly modifying files when
it does not need to.

> > cross platform apps rarely work well on all platforms.
> > there is always a 'home advantage'.
>
> That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

it's a lot worse on windows than it is on mac.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> BTW, for those who haven't read the article
>>>>>> yet, it's strictly for Windows, not for the Mac.

>>>>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.

>>>> Yeah, its always had a very counter intuitive user interface for Win
>>>> users.

>>> the interface isn't the problem.

>> It is the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

> you speak for all windows users?

Obviously not, just the ones I have seen that hate it.

>> > the problem is that itunes on windows has a lot of overhead
>> > because it's written on top of qtml with shared code from mac os.

>> That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

>> Its performance is essentially limited by the speed
>> of the connection between the PC and device etc.

> nope.

Yep.

> the performance problems are due to lots of
> legacy code and being written on top of qtml.

That's not the reason those coming from
Win that hate it say is why they hate it.

> parts of the database code, for instance, date back
> to when a few thousand songs was 'a lot'. itunes is
> constantly modifying files when it does not need to.

That's not the reason those coming from
Win that hate it say is why they hate it.

>>> cross platform apps rarely work well on all platforms.
>>> there is always a 'home advantage'.

>> That's not the reason that so many coming from Win hate it.

> it's a lot worse on windows than it is on mac.

That's not the reason those coming from
Win that hate it say is why they hate it.

They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
they want it to do, not because of its performance
when it does do what they want it to do.

[nospam]

In article <avokbo...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
> they want it to do, not because of its performance
> when it does do what they want it to do.

it's actually very easy. all it takes is taking a moment to not bitch
about how it won't do what they want and look in preferences. much of
what they complain about is nothing more than a checkbox.

apple picked defaults they think most people want, but obviously that
won't work for everyone (nothing does). those who want something else
can toggle the settings to better fit their needs.

and yes, it's performance on windows *is* worse, for the reasons i said.

interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about actual bugs,
some of which have been there for years.

[Savageduck]

On 2013-05-18 00:10:37 -0700, Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

> In message <huudnZ-SLaMzPwvM...@giganews.com>

> Alan Browne <alan....@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2013.05.17 14:08 , nospam wrote:
>>> In article <michelle-44454E...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> "SynciOS takes over for iTunes"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2038214/review-syncios-takes-over-for-it
>>>>>> unes. ht ml#tk.nl_app
>>>>>
>>>>> how does it 'take over' when it doesn't do all of what itunes does?
>>>>
>>>> And even requires iTunes to be installed in order to operate?
>>>
>>> it does? missed that part. that's even more stupid.
>>>
>>>> BTW, for those who haven't read the article yet, it's strictly for Windows,
>>>> not for the Mac.
>>>
>>> many windows users tend to hate itunes.
>
>> Not a few Mac users hate iTunes as well.
>

> I never had much complaint about iTunes until iTunes 11. iTunes 11 needs
> help desperately.

There was this on the SF Chron site this morning. Perhaps Apple might
start getting the message about iTunes 11.
<
http://blog.sfgate.com/loaded/2013/05/17/how-to-get-the-old-itunes-back-in-10-easy-steps/
>

I am one of those folks who never updated to iTunes 11 from iTunes
10.7, because I waited to check initial reaction to the update, and it
wasn't good. So I stayed with what worked for me.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <2013051807084935001-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> I am one of those folks who never updated to iTunes 11 from iTunes
> 10.7, because I waited to check initial reaction to the update, and it
> wasn't good. So I stayed with what worked for me.

the problem is that the next iphone and ipad will require itunes 11 (or
whatever version they end up calling it).

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
>> they want it to do, not because of its performance
>> when it does do what they want it to do.

> it's actually very easy.

Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.

> all it takes is taking a moment to not bitch about how it
> won't do what they want and look in preferences. much of
> what they complain about is nothing more than a checkbox.

And plenty of even the most basic stuff like say getting
something off the iOS device into the PC isnt for those
who are used to the device just appearing as just another
drive on the Win system that shows up auto as soon as
you plug it in etc.

> apple picked defaults they think most people want, but
> obviously that won't work for everyone (nothing does).

There are no defaults involved when the device just
shows up as just another drive on the Win system
that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

> those who want something else can toggle
> the settings to better fit their needs.

You can never fiddle with the check boxes and have
the device just show up as just another drive on the Win
system that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

THAT'S why so many of those who are
coming from Win systems hate it so much.

> and yes, it's performance on windows
> *is* worse, for the reasons i said.

But that is not the reason so many who are using
it on a Win system hate it so much, as I said.

> interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about
> actual bugs, some of which have been there for years.

Basically because they hate it so much that they use
it as little as possible.

[Savageduck]

...but when they do release the next iDevice, my 4S & iPad2 will still
play nicely with iTunes 10.7/

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <2013051808211021153-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:


> >> I am one of those folks who never updated to iTunes 11 from iTunes
> >> 10.7, because I waited to check initial reaction to the update, and it
> >> wasn't good. So I stayed with what worked for me.
> >
> > the problem is that the next iphone and ipad will require itunes 11 (or
> > whatever version they end up calling it).
>
> ...but when they do release the next iDevice, my 4S & iPad2 will still
> play nicely with iTunes 10.7/

unless you want ios 7.

[nospam]

In article <avpj6l...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
> >> they want it to do, not because of its performance
> >> when it does do what they want it to do.
>
> > it's actually very easy.
>
> Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.

different is not necessarily bad.

> > all it takes is taking a moment to not bitch about how it
> > won't do what they want and look in preferences. much of
> > what they complain about is nothing more than a checkbox.
>
> And plenty of even the most basic stuff like say getting
> something off the iOS device into the PC isnt for those
> who are used to the device just appearing as just another
> drive on the Win system that shows up auto as soon as
> you plug it in etc.

making it difficult to get music and videos off the ios device is
intentional to make it harder to pirate music, which makes the record
companies happy.

it's not a huge obstacle, so for those who do want to get stuff off the
device, there are a *lot* of apps that will do that. it's not
impossible.

there's also no reason to do it, since the content is already on the
computer anyway.

> > apple picked defaults they think most people want, but
> > obviously that won't work for everyone (nothing does).
>
> There are no defaults involved when the device just
> shows up as just another drive on the Win system
> that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

there are always defaults and you can change them in preferences.

having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop, is
*reduced* functionality. itunes can do *much* more than drag/drop ever
could.

> > those who want something else can toggle
> > the settings to better fit their needs.
>
> You can never fiddle with the check boxes and have
> the device just show up as just another drive on the Win
> system that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

why would anyone want to do that? it offers absolutely no benefit
whatsoever.

> THAT'S why so many of those who are
> coming from Win systems hate it so much.

no, they hate it because they don't know any better.

they think that it has to show up as another drive for some reason, not
realizing that is a huge step backwards from what itunes can do.

> > and yes, it's performance on windows
> > *is* worse, for the reasons i said.
>
> But that is not the reason so many who are using
> it on a Win system hate it so much, as I said.

it's one reason, and one i hear a lot.

> > interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about
> > actual bugs, some of which have been there for years.
>
> Basically because they hate it so much that they use
> it as little as possible.

only because they're stubborn.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
>>>> they want it to do, not because of its performance
>>>> when it does do what they want it to do.

>>> it's actually very easy.

>> Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.

> different is not necessarily bad.

Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

>>> all it takes is taking a moment to not bitch about how it
>>> won't do what they want and look in preferences. much of
>>> what they complain about is nothing more than a checkbox.

>> And plenty of even the most basic stuff like say getting
>> something off the iOS device into the PC isnt for those
>> who are used to the device just appearing as just another
>> drive on the Win system that shows up auto as soon as
>> you plug it in etc.

> making it difficult to get music and videos off the ios
> device is intentional to make it harder to pirate music,
> which makes the record companies happy.

Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

> it's not a huge obstacle, so for those who do want to get stuff off the
> device, there are a *lot* of apps that will do that. it's not impossible.

Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate iTunes.

> there's also no reason to do it, since the
> content is already on the computer anyway.

That's just plain wrong with stuff that starts on the iDevice and
a hell of a lot of it does now with the more capable iDevices.

AND its just as awkward to move stuff from the PC to the iDevice too
for those coming from Win, which is why so many of them hate it.

>>> apple picked defaults they think most people want, but
>>> obviously that won't work for everyone (nothing does).

>> There are no defaults involved when the device just
>> shows up as just another drive on the Win system
>> that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

> there are always defaults

Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

> and you can change them in preferences.

Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

> having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop,

That's just one of the way those used to the Win UI do that.

> is *reduced* functionality.

Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

> itunes can do *much* more than drag/drop ever could.

Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

>>> those who want something else can toggle
>>> the settings to better fit their needs.

>> You can never fiddle with the check boxes and have
>> the device just show up as just another drive on the Win
>> system that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

> why would anyone want to do that?

Because that's they way they have always
done it with other than iDevices.

> it offers absolutely no benefit whatsoever.

It offers the very obvious benefit of being the way
they have always done it with other than iDevices.

>> THAT'S why so many of those who are
>> coming from Win systems hate it so much.

> no, they hate it because they don't know any better.

Even sillier. It's a very quick and easy way to do
it when all you want to do is move a few things
between the iDevice and the PC or the reverse.

> they think that it has to show up as another drive for some reason,

Nope, they just prefer that approach. You get to like that or lump it.

> not realizing that is a huge step backwards from what itunes can do.

Even sillier when even you admit itunes does it very badly performance wise.

>>> and yes, it's performance on windows
>>> *is* worse, for the reasons i said.

>> But that is not the reason so many who are using
>> it on a Win system hate it so much, as I said.

> it's one reason,

Nope.

> and one i hear a lot.

And yet you are stupid enough to insist that itunes should
be used to do what can be done MUCH better performance
wise by having the device show up as a drive when you
plug it in and that has the very real advantage that they
are already familiar with that approach with their USB
sticks and external hard drives, cameras, etc etc etc.

>>> interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about
>>> actual bugs, some of which have been there for years.

>> Basically because they hate it so much that they use
>> it as little as possible.

> only because they're stubborn.

Nope, because they prefer that approach because it's
the same approach right cross all the other stuff they
have like USB sticks, external drives, cameras etc etc etc
and because even you admit the performance of itunes
is pathetic in comparison.

[nospam]

In article <avq42t...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
> >>>> they want it to do, not because of its performance
> >>>> when it does do what they want it to do.
>
> >>> it's actually very easy.
>
> >> Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.
>
> > different is not necessarily bad.
>
> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

it's exactly relevant. they're too stuck in their ways to learn
something new, automatically dismissing it as bad, without learning how
to use it.

> > there's also no reason to do it, since the
> > content is already on the computer anyway.
>
> That's just plain wrong with stuff that starts on the iDevice and
> a hell of a lot of it does now with the more capable iDevices.

it's not wrong at all. if the content is purchased on the device, it is
automatically copied to the computer when it's synced, without any user
interaction. it doesn't get any easier than that.

> AND its just as awkward to move stuff from the PC to the iDevice too
> for those coming from Win, which is why so many of them hate it.

how is one button awkward? or no button, if it's set to auto-sync?

how is automatically copying new purchases awkward?

it's *different* and they're too stubborn to learn anything new.

> >>> apple picked defaults they think most people want, but
> >>> obviously that won't work for everyone (nothing does).
>
> >> There are no defaults involved when the device just
> >> shows up as just another drive on the Win system
> >> that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.
>
> > there are always defaults
>
> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
> just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

that means they're used to a poorly designed interface with limited
features. having it show up as another drive is a feature *reduction*.

itunes offers *more* features, but they foolishly reject it.

> > and you can change them in preferences.
>
> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
> just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

what matters is syncing music. itunes does a better job and faster than
drag/drop.

> > having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop,
>
> That's just one of the way those used to the Win UI do that.

what are the other ways?

> > is *reduced* functionality.
>
> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

it's very relevant.

apple is offering more features than what they have with other
products, and that's why it sells as well as it does.

> > itunes can do *much* more than drag/drop ever could.
>
> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

it's very relevant.

> >>> those who want something else can toggle
> >>> the settings to better fit their needs.
>
> >> You can never fiddle with the check boxes and have
> >> the device just show up as just another drive on the Win
> >> system that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.
>
> > why would anyone want to do that?
>
> Because that's they way they have always
> done it with other than iDevices.

that doesn't mean it's a good way to do it. in fact, it's about the
worst possible way.

> > it offers absolutely no benefit whatsoever.
>
> It offers the very obvious benefit of being the way
> they have always done it with other than iDevices.

that is not a benefit. that just means they're lazy asses who don't
want to learn anything new, something that has significantly more
functionality.

> >> THAT'S why so many of those who are
> >> coming from Win systems hate it so much.
>
> > no, they hate it because they don't know any better.
>
> Even sillier. It's a very quick and easy way to do
> it when all you want to do is move a few things
> between the iDevice and the PC or the reverse.

it's much quicker using itunes. there's no need to navigate the file
system and find the right place for each song. the advantage grows as
the number of songs increases.

itunes puts things in the right place automatically. the computer is
there to do work *for* you, not the other way around.

> > they think that it has to show up as another drive for some reason,
>
> Nope, they just prefer that approach. You get to like that or lump it.

only because they don't know any other approach. they think that's the
only way. it isn't.

> > not realizing that is a huge step backwards from what itunes can do.
>
> Even sillier when even you admit itunes does it very badly performance wise.

syncing is not a performance bottleneck. syncing is limited by the
speed of flash in the device. back when ipods supported firewire sync,
it wasn't any faster.

> >>> and yes, it's performance on windows
> >>> *is* worse, for the reasons i said.
>
> >> But that is not the reason so many who are using
> >> it on a Win system hate it so much, as I said.
>
> > it's one reason,
>
> Nope.

wrong. performance is a common complaint from windows users.

> > and one i hear a lot.
>
> And yet you are stupid enough to insist that itunes should
> be used to do what can be done MUCH better performance
> wise by having the device show up as a drive when you
> plug it in and that has the very real advantage that they
> are already familiar with that approach with their USB
> sticks and external hard drives, cameras, etc etc etc.

there's your problem right there.

an iphone or ipod is not simply a hard drive or usb stick. treating it
as one misses a significant amount of functionality that's available.

plus it's much faster and easier if itunes handles the copying. the
overall user experience is much better.

however, itunes has bugs. *that* is a valid criticism, but windows
users somehow don't notice any of them, since they never mention the
bugs. very strange.

> >>> interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about
> >>> actual bugs, some of which have been there for years.
>
> >> Basically because they hate it so much that they use
> >> it as little as possible.
>
> > only because they're stubborn.
>
> Nope, because they prefer that approach because it's
> the same approach right cross all the other stuff they
> have like USB sticks, external drives, cameras etc etc etc
> and because even you admit the performance of itunes
> is pathetic in comparison.

i said itunes is slower on windows due to qtml. that's all.

syncing is not a bottleneck. other things are.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
>>>>>> they want it to do, not because of its performance
>>>>>> when it does do what they want it to do.

>>>>> it's actually very easy.

>>>> Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.

>>> different is not necessarily bad.

>> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

> it's exactly relevant.

No.

> they're too stuck in their ways to learn something new,

No, they just prefer that other approach.

> automatically dismissing it as bad,
> without learning how to use it.

That's just plain wrong. They do use it because there was
no real alternative for a long time, and hate it anyway.

>>> there's also no reason to do it, since the
>>> content is already on the computer anyway.

>> That's just plain wrong with stuff that starts on the iDevice and
>> a hell of a lot of it does now with the more capable iDevices.

> it's not wrong at all.

Its completely wrong.

> if the content is purchased on the device, it is
> automatically copied to the computer when it's synced,

Plenty of them don't bother to synch when they
just want to get something that has originated
on the idevice like a photo into the PC.

So your claim that its already on the PC is just plain wrong.

If it was, they wouldn't need to do anything.

> without any user interaction.

That's just plain wrong too.

> it doesn't get any easier than that.

Wrong, as always, particularly when you are used to not synching all the
time.

>> AND its just as awkward to move stuff from the PC to the iDevice too
>> for those coming from Win, which is why so many of them hate it.

> how is one button awkward?

It isnt just one button.

> or no button, if it's set to auto-sync?

Pity about when it isn't.

> how is automatically copying new purchases awkward?

I wasn't talking about new purchases.

> it's *different* and they're too stubborn to learn anything new.

Wrong, as always.

>>>>> apple picked defaults they think most people want, but
>>>>> obviously that won't work for everyone (nothing does).

>>>> There are no defaults involved when the device just
>>>> shows up as just another drive on the Win system
>>>> that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

>>> there are always defaults

>> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
>> just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

> that means they're used to a poorly designed interface

Bullshit when you want to get stuff like photos out of the
phone into the PC.

> with limited features.

Bullshit when you want to get stuff like photos out of the
phone into the PC.

> having it show up as another drive is a feature *reduction*.

Bullshit when you want to get stuff like photos out of the
phone into the PC.

> itunes offers *more* features,

Which they don't want to use they want to get
stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> but they foolishly reject it.

They don't do that either, they use itunes and
hate it because for a long time there was no
real alternative when they want to get stuff
like photos out of the phone into the PC.

>>> and you can change them in preferences.

>> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices
>> that just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

> what matters is syncing music.

Wrong when you want to get stuff like
photos out of the phone into the PC.

> itunes does a better job and faster than drag/drop.

Wrong when you want to get stuff like
photos out of the phone into the PC.

>>> having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop,

>> That's just one of the way those used to the Win UI do that.

> what are the other ways?

Cut and paste.

>>> is *reduced* functionality.

>> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

> it's very relevant.

Wrong, as always.

> apple is offering more features than
> what they have with other products,

It doesn't even offer having the idevice show
up as another drive when you plug it in or
when it shows up on the PC's network.

> and that's why it sells as well as it does.

Wrong, as always. It does some things like the UI
much better than the alternatives like the android
platforms do, and offers a vastly better range of
apps than the Win Phone system does.

>>> itunes can do *much* more than drag/drop ever could.

>> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.

> it's very relevant.

Wrong, as always.

>>>>> those who want something else can toggle
>>>>> the settings to better fit their needs.

>>>> You can never fiddle with the check boxes and have
>>>> the device just show up as just another drive on the Win
>>>> system that shows up auto as soon as you plug it in etc.

>>> why would anyone want to do that?

>> Because that's they way they have always
>> done it with other than iDevices.

> that doesn't mean it's a good way to do it.

It is anyway.

> in fact, it's about the worst possible way.

Wrong, as always.

>>> it offers absolutely no benefit whatsoever.

>> It offers the very obvious benefit of being the way
>> they have always done it with other than iDevices.

> that is not a benefit.

Wrong, as always.

> that just means they're lazy asses who
> don't want to learn anything new,

That's a lie. They had no choice on that for a very long time.

> something that has significantly more functionality.

Which is totally useless when when you want to
get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

>>>> THAT'S why so many of those who are
>>>> coming from Win systems hate it so much.

>>> no, they hate it because they don't know any better.

>> Even sillier. It's a very quick and easy way to do
>> it when all you want to do is move a few things
>> between the iDevice and the PC or the reverse.

> it's much quicker using itunes.

Wrong, as always.

> there's no need to navigate the file system
> and find the right place for each song.

We arent talking about songs.

> the advantage grows as the number of songs increases.

We arent talking about songs.

> itunes puts things in the right place automatically.

Like hell it does when when you want to get
stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> the computer is there to do work
> *for* you, not the other way around.

Not even possible when you want to get stuff
like photos out of the phone into the PC.

>>> they think that it has to show up as another drive for some reason,

>> Nope, they just prefer that approach. You get to like that or lump it.

> only because they don't know any other approach.

Wrong, as always.

> they think that's the only way.

Wrong, as always.

> it isn't.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

>>> not realizing that is a huge step backwards from what itunes can do.

>> Even sillier when even you admit itunes
>> does it very badly performance wise.

> syncing is not a performance bottleneck.

We arent discussing synching.

> syncing is limited by the speed of flash in the device.

What I said long ago.

> back when ipods supported firewire sync, it wasn't any faster.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

>>>>> and yes, it's performance on windows
>>>>> *is* worse, for the reasons i said.

>>>> But that is not the reason so many who are using
>>>> it on a Win system hate it so much, as I said.

>>> it's one reason,

>> Nope.

> wrong.

Nope.

> performance is a common complaint from windows users.

Wrong, as always.

>>> and one i hear a lot.

>> And yet you are stupid enough to insist that itunes should
>> be used to do what can be done MUCH better performance
>> wise by having the device show up as a drive when you
>> plug it in and that has the very real advantage that they
>> are already familiar with that approach with their USB
>> sticks and external hard drives, cameras, etc etc etc.

> there's your problem right there.

Wrong, as always.

> an iphone or ipod is not simply a hard drive or usb stick. treating it
> as one misses a significant amount of functionality that's available.

Which is totally useless when when you want to
get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> plus it's much faster and easier if itunes handles the
> copying. the overall user experience is much better.

Which is totally useless when when you want to
get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> however, itunes has bugs. *that* is a valid criticism,
> but windows users somehow don't notice any of them,
> since they never mention the bugs. very strange.

Nope, they just don't do what shows the bugs.

>>>>> interestingly, i don't see windows users complaining about
>>>>> actual bugs, some of which have been there for years.

>>>> Basically because they hate it so much that they use
>>>> it as little as possible.

>>>>> only because they're stubborn.

>> Nope, because they prefer that approach because it's
>> the same approach right cross all the other stuff they
>> have like USB sticks, external drives, cameras etc etc etc
>> and because even you admit the performance of itunes
>> is pathetic in comparison.

> i said itunes is slower on windows due to qtml. that's all.

And I rubbed your nose in the fact that the speed the user
sees is determined by the other stuff like the comms speed,
so that's completely irrelevant to most users.

> syncing is not a bottleneck. other things are.

Having fun thrashing yet another straw man ?

[badgolferman]

Syncios is certainly not a replacement for iTunes since it requires
that program to work, but it does add a few nice features that
hopefully will be improved in future releases.

The Home page shows the standard information plus a few more details
about the device hooked up to it. You can export a text file with much
more detail if required. It also has a graph showing System Capacity
and one for Data Capacity.

The sidebar shows an Audio Converter, Video Converter, Ringtone Maker
as tools. The tree structure under the device has Media, Photos,
Ebook, Apps, File System Information, More.

Clicking on Media displays a list of all my Media with Playlists. You
can filter by type of media if desired. You can import, export, delete
any media file or create a new playlist.

Clicking on Photos displays all galleries and photos/videos.
Double-clicking a photo or video will open it in your default
application. You can import, export, or delete photos. Unfortunately
drag & drop doesn't seem to work.

Clicking on Ebook displays a list of Ebooks. You can import, export,
remove.

Clicking on Apps displays a list of apps on the device. You can
install, uninstall or backup apps. Install opens a Windows dialog box
asking for you to point to a .ipa file. Not sure what backup does,
nothing happened when I clicked on it.

Clicking on File System displays a list of folders which you can dig
deeper into if desired. You can create a new folder, delete, import,
export files.

Clicking on Information provides the chance to view Contacts, Notes,
Bookmarks, Call History, Messages. I could not see any of my Contacts.
My Notes are displayed, but the text within is scrunched together. I
do not use Safari so no bookmarks are available. The Call History
shows number, date/time, talk time, in/out call. Messages displays
text messages by phone number, not name. You can save your SMS
messages and Call History to a text file, but only the whole list.

Clicking on More displays Real-time Logs, Crash Reports, Clear Cache.
You can save logs and reports and clear your cache.

The Audio, Video Converters and Ringtone Maker appear to be functional
but I have not used them. I tried to create a ringtone from a .wav
file to a .m4r file rand it appeared to be successful but I had no idea
where to place the file for ingestion to the iPhone 5.

All in all I'd have to say it is worth using, especially if you want
access to your photos. Saving SMS and Call History files could be
useful as well. Viewing system logs can be quite useful if there's
something wrong. Those who like to create ringtones and play with
media conversion may be delighted.

[nospam]

In article <avttdp...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed

<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > if the content is purchased on the device, it is
> > automatically copied to the computer when it's synced,
>
> Plenty of them don't bother to synch when they
> just want to get something that has originated
> on the idevice like a photo into the PC.

this isn't just about photos, but for that, use *any* photo management
software.

it's also copied by itunes into the backup.

or use photostream or other cloud service.

> So your claim that its already on the PC is just plain wrong.

nope. it's exactly correct.

> If it was, they wouldn't need to do anything.

they don't.

> > without any user interaction.
>
> That's just plain wrong too.

it's not. you clearly do not know how to use itunes.

> > it doesn't get any easier than that.
>
> Wrong, as always, particularly when you are used to not synching all the
> time.

syncing is much, much easier than doing it manually. it's no contest.

the computer is there to do work for you, not the other way around.

> >> AND its just as awkward to move stuff from the PC to the iDevice too
> >> for those coming from Win, which is why so many of them hate it.
>
> > how is one button awkward?
>
> It isnt just one button.

yes it is, unless set to auto-sync.

> > or no button, if it's set to auto-sync?
>
> Pity about when it isn't.

then it's clicking one button to do it all.

> > how is automatically copying new purchases awkward?
>
> I wasn't talking about new purchases.

that's the only way there would be content on the device and not on the
computer (other than photos, which has already been discussed).

the rest of the content is already on the computer so no need to copy
it back there.

very simple.

> >> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices that
> >> just appear as another drive when you plug it in.
>
> > that means they're used to a poorly designed interface
>
> Bullshit when you want to get stuff like photos out of the
> phone into the PC.

use *any* photo management software.

> > itunes offers *more* features,
>
> Which they don't want to use they want to get
> stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

translated: they are stuck in their ways.

> > but they foolishly reject it.
>
> They don't do that either,

yes, they do, as your mindless ranting proves.

> they use itunes and
> hate it because for a long time there was no
> real alternative when they want to get stuff
> like photos out of the phone into the PC.

first of all, itunes doesn't copy photos from the phone (other than a
backup) and second, *any* photo management app will pull photos off it
because the phone shows up as a digital camera. this has always been
the case.

no wonder you hate itunes. you don't even know how it works.

> >>> having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop,
>
> >> That's just one of the way those used to the Win UI do that.
>
> > what are the other ways?
>
> Cut and paste.

same thing as drag/drop, but two steps rather than one. you still have
to navigate the file system to find stuff to copy and put stuff where
it should go. that's a lot more work than necessary.

let the computer do the work *for* you. that's what it's for.

> > apple is offering more features than
> > what they have with other products,
>
> It doesn't even offer having the idevice show
> up as another drive when you plug it in or
> when it shows up on the PC's network.

it doesn't need to offer to do that. it's a dumb idea.

> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.

> Which is totally useless when when you want to
> get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> We arent talking about songs.
> We arent talking about songs.

> Like hell it does when when you want to get
> stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> Not even possible when you want to get stuff
> like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.
> Wrong, as always.

> Which is totally useless when when you want to
> get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> Which is totally useless when when you want to
> get stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

yawn.

you're a broken record, spewing the same mindless garbage.

and just because you say so doesn't mean it's true.

> And I rubbed your nose in the fact that the speed the user
> sees is determined by the other stuff like the comms speed,
> so that's completely irrelevant to most users.

that's just flat out wrong. the speed the user sees is because it's
qtml and because the database code needs to be redone. clicking between
songs should be instant. it's not.

meanwhile, itunes has some serious bugs, such as stealing focus (which
should *never* happen, ever), misdirected clicks causing the wrong apps
to be selected and sometimes downloaded (also should never happen,
especially since it can cost the user money), scrolling on its own
without any user input, updates that send the same file as you already
have and occasional crashes. *those* are reasons to not like itunes.

the interface is fine and reasonably well thought out, which is a lot
more than can be said about windows.

[AV3]

On May/19/2013 10:2032 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article<avq42t...@mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> They hate it because its so hard to get it to do what
>>>>>> they want it to do, not because of its performance
>>>>>> when it does do what they want it to do.
>>
>>>>> it's actually very easy.
>>
>>>> Not for those who are used to a different approach to the UI it isnt.
>>
>>> different is not necessarily bad.
>>
>> Irrelevant to WHY those coming from Win often hate it.
>
> it's exactly relevant. they're too stuck in their ways to learn
> something new, automatically dismissing it as bad, without learning how
> to use it.
>

Apple's great strength is its intuitive user model. Macusers complain
when a Windows program is ported to Mac but retains Windows features.
Porting to another system requires that it be intuitive to the users of
the target system.


The complaint seems to be that iTunes for Windows is too Mac-like and
not Windowsy enough. Only Windows users can make that judgement. Never
having owned and seldom used Windows computers I can't judge firsthand,
but it seems a valid complaint. I can't believe all Windows users are
just obstinately poor learners. Yes, I know that they aren't intelligent
enough to have bought Macs instead, but Mac is trying to indulge them,
though maybe not enough.


>>> ...


--
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++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++\
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[nospam]

In article <michelle-9B673B...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Michelle Steiner <mich...@michelle.org> wrote:

> > Apple's great strength is its intuitive user model. Macusers complain
> > when a Windows program is ported to Mac but retains Windows features.
> > Porting to another system requires that it be intuitive to the users of
> > the target system.
>

> When Claris first released FileMaker for Windows, it made the interface as
> Mac-like as possible so that people using the product on both platforms
> would have the same interface. Windows users complained a lot about that.
> (One example being the relative placement of the OK and Cancel buttons in a
> dialog; they are opposite in Windows from their placement on the Mac.)
>
> A bit of research disclosed that very few people used it on both platforms,
> so the original design was flawed in that respect. (Of course, it wasn't
> until it got into the field and people were able to use it that they were
> able to determine this.) The second release for Windows stuck to Windows
> standards, and the release for the Mac stuck to Mac standards.

that was a very different era.

today, it's quite common to use both platforms, sometimes even on the
same machine (e.g., vmware).

many apps are essentially the same on both, such as photoshop, firefox
and itunes. any differences are very, very minor.

[Rod Speed]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote

> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

>>> if the content is purchased on the device, it is
>>> automatically copied to the computer when it's synced,

>> Plenty of them don't bother to synch when they
>> just want to get something that has originated
>> on the idevice like a photo into the PC.

> this isn't just about photos,

That's why I used the word LIKE just above.

> but for that, use *any* photo management software.

Doesn't help with the other stuff that is originated on the idevice.

> it's also copied by itunes into the backup.

> or use photostream or other cloud service.

Yes, that's why I said that the reason so many hate
itunes is because there was no alternative for years.

>> So your claim that its already on the PC is just plain wrong.

> nope. it's exactly correct.

No it isnt with quite a bit of stuff that is originated on the idevice.

>> If it was, they wouldn't need to do anything.

> they don't.

They do with plenty of stuff.

>>> without any user interaction.

>> That's just plain wrong too.

> it's not.

It is.

> you clearly do not know how to use itunes.

You can't even work out what is being discussed.

>>> it doesn't get any easier than that.

>> Wrong, as always, particularly when
>> you are used to not synching all the time.

> syncing is much, much easier than doing it manually. it's no contest.

Wrong when you JUST want to get a particular photo off the idevice.

That's why the share function is there in the idevice.

> the computer is there to do work
> for you, not the other way around.

There is no way for it to work out what you
want to do with a particular photo for itself.

>>>> AND its just as awkward to move stuff from the PC to the iDevice too
>>>> for those coming from Win, which is why so many of them hate it.

>>> how is one button awkward?

>> It isnt just one button.

> yes it is, unless set to auto-sync.

No it isnt with a particular photo.

>>> or no button, if it's set to auto-sync?

>> Pity about when it isn't.

> then it's clicking one button to do it all.

Not even possible with just the one photo.

>>> how is automatically copying new purchases awkward?

>> I wasn't talking about new purchases.

> that's the only way there would be content
> on the device and not on the computer

Wrong.

> (other than photos,

It isnt just photos that originate on the idevice.

> which has already been discussed).

But which you mangled completely.

> the rest of the content is already on the computer

Wrong with the other stuff that has originated on the idevice.

> so no need to copy it back there.

Wrong when you want to get it there.

> very simple.

Fraid not.

>>>> Not with the Win UI they are used to with devices
>>>> that just appear as another drive when you plug it in.

>>> that means they're used to a poorly designed interface

>> Bullshit when you want to get stuff like photos out of the
>> phone into the PC.

> use *any* photo management software.

They prefer to have the idevice appear as a drive on the PC instead.

You get to like that or lump it.

>>> itunes offers *more* features,

>> Which they don't want to use they want to get
>> stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> translated: they are stuck in their ways.

real translation: they prefer a different approach to what you prefer.

>>> but they foolishly reject it.

>> They don't do that either,

> yes, they do,

No they don't when they use it because there is no alternative.

> as your mindless ranting proves.

Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there.

>> they use itunes and hate it because for a long time
>> there was no real alternative when they want to get
>> stuff like photos out of the phone into the PC.

> first of all, itunes doesn't copy photos from the phone
> (other than a backup)

So the claim that itunes will do everything
and more is just plain wrong, as I said.

> and second, *any* photo management app will
> pull photos off it because the phone shows up
> as a digital camera.

Many prefer to not fart around with any photo
management app and just move the photo using
the same approach they use to move anything else.

You get to like that or lump it.

> this has always been the case.

Pity about the other stuff that originates on the idevice
that is not a photo.

> no wonder you hate itunes.

I didn't even say that I do hate itunes.

> you don't even know how it works.

Wrong, as always.

And you shouldn't have to know how it works if you

just want to get something that has originated on the

idevice out of the idevice anyway. That's lousy design.

>>>>> having the device show up as a drive, presumably for drag/drop,

>>>> That's just one of the way those used to the Win UI do that.

>>> what are the other ways?

>> Cut and paste.

> same thing as drag/drop,

Nope, completely different in fact.

> but two steps rather than one. you still have
> to navigate the file system to find stuff to copy
> and put stuff where it should go.

No you don't when you have enough of a
clue to setup shortcuts the first time you do
that and use those the next time you do that.

> that's a lot more work than necessary.

Wrong, as always.

> let the computer do the work *for* you. that's what it's for.

Let the idevice show up as a drive, the computer
is doing that for you when its not an idevice.

>>> apple is offering more features than
>>> what they have with other products,

>> It doesn't even offer having the idevice show
>> up as another drive when you plug it in or
>> when it shows up on the PC's network.

> it doesn't need to offer to do that. it's a dumb idea.

Mindlessly silly.

<reams of your juvenile shit flushed where it belongs>

>> And I rubbed your nose in the fact that the speed the user
>> sees is determined by the other stuff like the comms speed,
>> so that's completely irrelevant to most users.

> that's just flat out wrong. the speed the user sees is because it's qtml

Wrong when its limited by the comms speed instead.

> and because the database code needs to be redone.
> clicking between songs should be instant. it's not.

Those that hate itunes don't hate if for that reason.

> meanwhile, itunes has some serious bugs, such as stealing focus (which
> should *never* happen, ever), misdirected clicks causing the wrong apps
> to be selected and sometimes downloaded (also should never happen,
> especially since it can cost the user money), scrolling on its own
> without any user input, updates that send the same file as you already
> have and occasional crashes. *those* are reasons to not like itunes.

You get no say what so ever on why anyone hates anything.

> the interface is fine and reasonably well thought out,

Bullshit when you just want to get something that
has originated on the idevice out of the idevice.