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iPhones see router TKIP encryption when it's actually AES. Or is it?
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Chris
Jun 21, 2021, 6:18:15 AM6/21/21
to
Router: TP-Link Archer VR600 v2
I was setting up my FIL on my home wifi at the weekend and noticed that
his iPhone SE2 was showing the SSID had "Weak Security". On checking
further it claims that the router is using WPA2 (TKIP). However, on
checking the router config it claims to be using WPA2-PSK AES
specifically, not as an 'auto' option.
On checking my iphone XR it also says the same, but I'm pretty sure when
I set up the router a couple of months ago it didn't say that.
My mac only states that the router is using 'WPA/WPA2 Personal'.
So which device do I believe? Am I using TKIP or AES encryption? How can
I verify it?
Graham J
Jun 21, 2021, 7:03:14 AM6/21/21
to
not available on my Vigor 2860 router, nor on a staw poll of other
routers I've looked at. It also suggests AES, and my router is set for
Mixed (WPA+WPA2)/PSK with Encryption mode = AES. So I suspect it is
telling me to get an Apple Airport ....
But I use the Vigor for the LAN-to-LAN VPN, bandwidth management by
client, VDSL diagnostics, etc.
--
Graham J
Chris
Jun 21, 2021, 9:20:11 AM6/21/21
to
On 21/06/2021 12:03, Graham J wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>>
>> Router: TP-Link Archer VR600 v2
>>
>> I was setting up my FIL on my home wifi at the weekend and noticed
>> that his iPhone SE2 was showing the SSID had "Weak Security". On
>> checking further it claims that the router is using WPA2 (TKIP).
>> However, on checking the router config it claims to be using WPA2-PSK
>> AES specifically, not as an 'auto' option.
>>
>> On checking my iphone XR it also says the same, but I'm pretty sure
>> when I set up the router a couple of months ago it didn't say that.
>>
>> My mac only states that the router is using 'WPA/WPA2 Personal'.
>>
>> So which device do I believe? Am I using TKIP or AES encryption? How
>> can I verify it?
>>
>
> I saw the same message on an iPad recently. It suggests WPA3 which is
> not available on my Vigor 2860 router, nor on a staw poll of other
> routers I've looked at. It also suggests AES, and my router is set for
> Mixed (WPA+WPA2)/PSK with Encryption mode = AES.
Given you're seeing the same error as me with different hardware, does
> Chris wrote:
>>
>> Router: TP-Link Archer VR600 v2
>>
>> I was setting up my FIL on my home wifi at the weekend and noticed
>> that his iPhone SE2 was showing the SSID had "Weak Security". On
>> checking further it claims that the router is using WPA2 (TKIP).
>> However, on checking the router config it claims to be using WPA2-PSK
>> AES specifically, not as an 'auto' option.
>>
>> On checking my iphone XR it also says the same, but I'm pretty sure
>> when I set up the router a couple of months ago it didn't say that.
>>
>> My mac only states that the router is using 'WPA/WPA2 Personal'.
>>
>> So which device do I believe? Am I using TKIP or AES encryption? How
>> can I verify it?
>>
>
> I saw the same message on an iPad recently. It suggests WPA3 which is
> not available on my Vigor 2860 router, nor on a staw poll of other
> routers I've looked at. It also suggests AES, and my router is set for
> Mixed (WPA+WPA2)/PSK with Encryption mode = AES.
that suggest there's a (recent) iOS bug? Like I said I'm sure I haven't
seen this before, otherwise I would have done something about it. We
have 4 iphones and an iPad here so I would have noticed.
> So I suspect it is
> telling me to get an Apple Airport ....
sms
Jun 21, 2021, 11:46:14 AM6/21/21
to
On 6/21/2021 6:20 AM, Chris wrote:
<snip>
> Given you're seeing the same error as me with different hardware, does
> that suggest there's a (recent) iOS bug? Like I said I'm sure I haven't
> seen this before, otherwise I would have done something about it. We
> have 4 iphones and an iPad here so I would have noticed.
If you really are using WPA2-AES then it's probably a bug.
This began with iOS14. See
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/29/iphone-weak-security-wi-fi-warning-heres-what-it-means/?sh=77467f08786a>.
Perhaps slightly different wording in the message might have been more
appropriate since the risk to home users is so small of not using WPA3
or WPA2 AES.
<snip>
> Are they even on sale anymore?
No. Kind of disappointing that they abandoned this product category
since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I think
the issue is that most people just get a combination modem/router from
their broadband provider so the sales volume at the consumer level
wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell them. I also suspect
that the level of technical support was high.
<snip>
> Given you're seeing the same error as me with different hardware, does
> that suggest there's a (recent) iOS bug? Like I said I'm sure I haven't
> seen this before, otherwise I would have done something about it. We
> have 4 iphones and an iPad here so I would have noticed.
This began with iOS14. See
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/29/iphone-weak-security-wi-fi-warning-heres-what-it-means/?sh=77467f08786a>.
Perhaps slightly different wording in the message might have been more
appropriate since the risk to home users is so small of not using WPA3
or WPA2 AES.
<snip>
> Are they even on sale anymore?
since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I think
the issue is that most people just get a combination modem/router from
their broadband provider so the sales volume at the consumer level
wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell them. I also suspect
that the level of technical support was high.
nospam
Jun 21, 2021, 1:00:24 PM6/21/21
to
In article <saqc85$2te$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
standards.
> I also suspect
> that the level of technical support was high.
it wasn't.
airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest of
any wifi router ever made.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Are they even on sale anymore?
>
> No. Kind of disappointing that they abandoned this product category
> since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I think
> the issue is that most people just get a combination modem/router from
> their broadband provider so the sales volume at the consumer level
> wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell them.
yep, and that it wasn't worth keeping up with the ever changing wifi
>
> > Are they even on sale anymore?
>
> No. Kind of disappointing that they abandoned this product category
> since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I think
> the issue is that most people just get a combination modem/router from
> their broadband provider so the sales volume at the consumer level
> wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell them.
standards.
> I also suspect
> that the level of technical support was high.
airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest of
any wifi router ever made.
paul
Jun 21, 2021, 3:33:41 PM6/21/21
to
nospam wrote on 21.06.2021 19:00
There's a reason my WISP has the opinion he has about Apple customers.
He tells me "they're all stupid" (every one); and I have to agree with him.
Apple caters to people who are literally _scared_ out of their wits.
Apple caters to people who are too stupid to be able to set up a router.
They'll pay twice as much for a router that doesn't scare them so much.
And they'll pay twice as much for a router that they don't have to set up.
--
Apple customers pay anything Apple asks because they're scared & stupid.
> airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest of
> any wifi router ever made.
WTF? *It's trivial to set up _any_ Wi-Fi router nowadays.*
> any wifi router ever made.
There's a reason my WISP has the opinion he has about Apple customers.
He tells me "they're all stupid" (every one); and I have to agree with him.
Apple caters to people who are literally _scared_ out of their wits.
Apple caters to people who are too stupid to be able to set up a router.
They'll pay twice as much for a router that doesn't scare them so much.
And they'll pay twice as much for a router that they don't have to set up.
--
Apple customers pay anything Apple asks because they're scared & stupid.
Abandoned_Trolley
Jun 21, 2021, 4:33:17 PM6/21/21
to
On 21/06/2021 20:33, paul wrote:
> nospam wrote on 21.06.2021 19:00
>> airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest of
>> any wifi router ever made.
>
> WTF? *It's trivial to set up _any_ Wi-Fi router nowadays.*
>
> There's a reason my WISP has the opinion he has about Apple customers.
> He tells me "they're all stupid" (every one); and I have to agree with him.
>
> Apple caters to people who are literally _scared_ out of their wits.
> Apple caters to people who are too stupid to be able to set up a router.
>
> They'll pay twice as much for a router that doesn't scare them so much.
> And they'll pay twice as much for a router that they don't have to set up.
>
Theres actually a grain of truth in that.
> nospam wrote on 21.06.2021 19:00
>> airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest of
>> any wifi router ever made.
>
> WTF? *It's trivial to set up _any_ Wi-Fi router nowadays.*
>
> There's a reason my WISP has the opinion he has about Apple customers.
> He tells me "they're all stupid" (every one); and I have to agree with him.
>
> Apple caters to people who are literally _scared_ out of their wits.
> Apple caters to people who are too stupid to be able to set up a router.
>
> They'll pay twice as much for a router that doesn't scare them so much.
> And they'll pay twice as much for a router that they don't have to set up.
>
Some years ago, in the run up to the launch of the first iPad, the
office resident MacHead announced that he had pre-ordered one.
When I asked him about it, it transpired that he didnt know the price or
the spec for the device. :-\
--
random signature text inserted here
paul
Jun 21, 2021, 5:09:33 PM6/21/21
to
Abandoned_Trolley wrote on 21.06.2021 22:33
> When I asked him about it, it transpired that he didnt know
I study _why_ people buy the strangest things, where, for decades, I've been
casually asking the person next to me at the gas pump what the difference is
between the low and high octane rated gasolines - and in those decades, I
can count on one hand the number of people who did NOT spew forth EXACTLY
what the advertisers fed to them. (And yes, I know organic chemistry well.)
Whenever I'm in a line and I'm standing next to someone else (six feet away
nowadays) I notice something about them to ask, e.g., why the Rolex watch,
or why the Gucci handbag, or even why Vibram soled work boots.
*I almost always get an answer that was fed to them by advertisements.*
Which brings me to Apple products. Bearing in mind I own plenty of iOS and
Android devices, I know the difference and so I can instantly tell when
they've been fed the bullshit that Tim Cook's Apple web site spews.
*The users don't know anything that wasn't fed to them by Apple marketing.*
My assessment is most iPhone owners don't even know the spec of the device
(e.g., they don't realize the cameras can barely break into the top slots),
but they sure do know what the Apple web site advertisements feed them.
The Apple owner usually doesn't even realize how much they're missing (e.g.,
the primitive iOS homescreen pales in comparison to that of Android) nor do
they know the functionality that is _impossible_ on iOS (e.g., adding a free
system wide firewall or a free system wide ad blocker or adding a free
youtube clone that shows zero ads, or adding a free app store client that
provides the kind of filters that intelligent people would want, etc.).
Even just being able to easily and freely put any given older version of an
app on any device on the planet (which is so simple on Android there are
tons of ways to do it) is _impossible_ with iOS under any circumstances.
The list of things _impossible_ on iOS that Android does every day is huge.
While this list of app functionalities on Android that are impossible on iOS
goes on nearly forever, the list of the opposite doesn't seem to exist.
There's no app functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.
There are clear logical sensible reasons for that - as it's rather obvious.
*Apple restricts what the market can provide - while Google can't.*
What most Apple users don't realize is that sentence above is obvious to us.
--
At all times we're assuming a comparison of existing app store apps.
> When I asked him about it, it transpired that he didnt know
casually asking the person next to me at the gas pump what the difference is
between the low and high octane rated gasolines - and in those decades, I
can count on one hand the number of people who did NOT spew forth EXACTLY
what the advertisers fed to them. (And yes, I know organic chemistry well.)
Whenever I'm in a line and I'm standing next to someone else (six feet away
nowadays) I notice something about them to ask, e.g., why the Rolex watch,
or why the Gucci handbag, or even why Vibram soled work boots.
*I almost always get an answer that was fed to them by advertisements.*
Which brings me to Apple products. Bearing in mind I own plenty of iOS and
Android devices, I know the difference and so I can instantly tell when
they've been fed the bullshit that Tim Cook's Apple web site spews.
*The users don't know anything that wasn't fed to them by Apple marketing.*
My assessment is most iPhone owners don't even know the spec of the device
(e.g., they don't realize the cameras can barely break into the top slots),
but they sure do know what the Apple web site advertisements feed them.
The Apple owner usually doesn't even realize how much they're missing (e.g.,
the primitive iOS homescreen pales in comparison to that of Android) nor do
they know the functionality that is _impossible_ on iOS (e.g., adding a free
system wide firewall or a free system wide ad blocker or adding a free
youtube clone that shows zero ads, or adding a free app store client that
provides the kind of filters that intelligent people would want, etc.).
Even just being able to easily and freely put any given older version of an
app on any device on the planet (which is so simple on Android there are
tons of ways to do it) is _impossible_ with iOS under any circumstances.
The list of things _impossible_ on iOS that Android does every day is huge.
While this list of app functionalities on Android that are impossible on iOS
goes on nearly forever, the list of the opposite doesn't seem to exist.
There's no app functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.
There are clear logical sensible reasons for that - as it's rather obvious.
*Apple restricts what the market can provide - while Google can't.*
What most Apple users don't realize is that sentence above is obvious to us.
--
At all times we're assuming a comparison of existing app store apps.
sms
Jun 21, 2021, 5:31:03 PM6/21/21
to
engineers or computer scientists, it's very different than living in a
place where you can't get any in-person assistance without paying for it.
Networking equipment scares a lot of people. It's why people will pay
$10 per month for a modem and router from their broadband provider
instead of buying their own which would pay for itself in about a year.
Most people now are getting modem/routers and I don't think that is a
business that Apple had any interest in getting into.
nospam
Jun 21, 2021, 5:31:04 PM6/21/21
to
In article <saqv66$1mak$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
>
> The list of things _impossible_ on Android that iOS does every day is huge.
ftfy
wrote:
>
> The list of things _impossible_ on Android that iOS does every day is huge.
ftfy
paul
Jun 21, 2021, 5:54:50 PM6/21/21
to
sms wrote on 21.06.2021 17:31
I sent quite a few kids to school (all my children have as many degrees as I
have now) where when they first move into an apartment, I buy them a modem.
The last Docsys 3.x modem I bought from Costco for a kid was around $120.
Comcast wanted to charge them $50 for installation + $10/month.
I taught the kids how to tell Comcast to waive both fees, which they did.
(I also taught them to get an "introductory offer" every year, as an aside.)
In the first bill alone, that saved $60 (i.e., half the cost of the modem).
In six more months, the other half of the modem was accounted for.
And there's zero consumer setup for a modem (other than a spare coax cable).
The modem starts paying for itself, at the rate of $10/month, for as long as
those kids are using it, where most of those kids are STILL using that modem
(some of whom boght their own homes already).
I kind of feel sorry for their room mates though as the kids always take
their modem and the separate router (which I also gave them) with them when
they change locations, leaving the room mate with having to rent the Comcast
modem for $10/month.
--
Every kid was taught how to do all this from unpacking the box to calling up
Comcast to have them configure the modem, to setting up the router
themselves. They were taught to keep a notebook of all the SSIDs &
passwords, and settings, and to keep track of the introductory price
expirations (where they call every year or two for the new intro rates).
> Networking equipment scares a lot of people. It's why people will pay
> $10 per month for a modem and router from their broadband provider
> instead of buying their own which would pay for itself in about a year.
A modem pays for itself in even less than a year.
> $10 per month for a modem and router from their broadband provider
> instead of buying their own which would pay for itself in about a year.
I sent quite a few kids to school (all my children have as many degrees as I
have now) where when they first move into an apartment, I buy them a modem.
The last Docsys 3.x modem I bought from Costco for a kid was around $120.
Comcast wanted to charge them $50 for installation + $10/month.
I taught the kids how to tell Comcast to waive both fees, which they did.
(I also taught them to get an "introductory offer" every year, as an aside.)
In the first bill alone, that saved $60 (i.e., half the cost of the modem).
In six more months, the other half of the modem was accounted for.
And there's zero consumer setup for a modem (other than a spare coax cable).
The modem starts paying for itself, at the rate of $10/month, for as long as
those kids are using it, where most of those kids are STILL using that modem
(some of whom boght their own homes already).
I kind of feel sorry for their room mates though as the kids always take
their modem and the separate router (which I also gave them) with them when
they change locations, leaving the room mate with having to rent the Comcast
modem for $10/month.
--
Every kid was taught how to do all this from unpacking the box to calling up
Comcast to have them configure the modem, to setting up the router
themselves. They were taught to keep a notebook of all the SSIDs &
passwords, and settings, and to keep track of the introductory price
expirations (where they call every year or two for the new intro rates).
paul
Jun 21, 2021, 6:11:28 PM6/21/21
to
nospam wrote on 21.06.2021 23:31
lack of functionality of iOS is proven and they have no _adult_ response.
1. This is impossible on iOS.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z
2. This is impossible on iOS.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps
Apologists turn into instant children because they _hate_ what iOS lacks.
*And what iOS is, is no different than "Windows S mode" is, for Windows.*
iOS is the missing functionality "Windows S mode" of mobile platforms.
Speaking of doing basic things on Android which are _impossible_ on iOS...
below I correctly outline _two_ extremely common very basic functionalities
most of us use on Android almost every day - which are _impossible_ on iOS.
When I have a kid unbox the Costco modem & routers when they first move into
an apartment, I have them properly set up the router Wi-Fi AP efficiency.
On Android, that's trivial. On iOS, it's yet again _impossible_ to do.
On Android, you simply download any free Wi-Fi analyzer which will give you
the signal strength graphically of every in-band signal in their range -
which for college kids in local apartments - is usually a shockingly huge
set of access points. In addition you get a graph of cellular signal
strength.
All this is absolutely _impossible_ on iOS.
*The apologists _hate_ that iOS can't do even these basic _simple_ things!*
Not because iPhone hardware is incapable of graphing the signal strength of
both the Wi-Fi (all bands) and the cellular signals - but because the apps
availble to the iPhone users simply do not exist in the Apple App Store.
If you buy Apple - you're limited in what the apps can do.
If you buy Android - you're not.
It's really that simple.
*Apple limits what the market can provide to you; Google can't.*
BTW, it has been a while since I've had to teach kids how to set up their
router efficiently using the freeware on Android to test for existing access
points (many of which may have the same name but different BSSIDs) - but
nowadays, Android requires you to turn on location to run those apps.
This points out yet another (of an almost infinite) list of app
functionality that is freely available on Android and yet completely
impossible on iOS - which is GPS Spoofing.
On Android, you simply set the Android default "Mock GPS Location App".
*Something even _that_ simple - is completely impossible on iOS!*
--
We're discussing existing apps and non jailbroken/unrooted devices.
>> The list of things _impossible_ on Android that iOS does every day is huge.
>
> ftfy
Notice how apologists turn into instant kindergarten cesspool whenever the
>
> ftfy
lack of functionality of iOS is proven and they have no _adult_ response.
1. This is impossible on iOS.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z
2. This is impossible on iOS.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps
Apologists turn into instant children because they _hate_ what iOS lacks.
*And what iOS is, is no different than "Windows S mode" is, for Windows.*
iOS is the missing functionality "Windows S mode" of mobile platforms.
Speaking of doing basic things on Android which are _impossible_ on iOS...
below I correctly outline _two_ extremely common very basic functionalities
most of us use on Android almost every day - which are _impossible_ on iOS.
When I have a kid unbox the Costco modem & routers when they first move into
an apartment, I have them properly set up the router Wi-Fi AP efficiency.
On Android, that's trivial. On iOS, it's yet again _impossible_ to do.
On Android, you simply download any free Wi-Fi analyzer which will give you
the signal strength graphically of every in-band signal in their range -
which for college kids in local apartments - is usually a shockingly huge
set of access points. In addition you get a graph of cellular signal
strength.
All this is absolutely _impossible_ on iOS.
*The apologists _hate_ that iOS can't do even these basic _simple_ things!*
Not because iPhone hardware is incapable of graphing the signal strength of
both the Wi-Fi (all bands) and the cellular signals - but because the apps
availble to the iPhone users simply do not exist in the Apple App Store.
If you buy Apple - you're limited in what the apps can do.
If you buy Android - you're not.
It's really that simple.
*Apple limits what the market can provide to you; Google can't.*
BTW, it has been a while since I've had to teach kids how to set up their
router efficiently using the freeware on Android to test for existing access
points (many of which may have the same name but different BSSIDs) - but
nowadays, Android requires you to turn on location to run those apps.
This points out yet another (of an almost infinite) list of app
functionality that is freely available on Android and yet completely
impossible on iOS - which is GPS Spoofing.
On Android, you simply set the Android default "Mock GPS Location App".
*Something even _that_ simple - is completely impossible on iOS!*
--
We're discussing existing apps and non jailbroken/unrooted devices.
Lewis
Jun 21, 2021, 6:33:43 PM6/21/21
to
replacing his 10 year old Airport hardware.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but I am running for mayor of Donkeytown and
Tuesdays are booked." From an early Kids' WB intro.
nospam
Jun 21, 2021, 7:32:43 PM6/21/21
to
In article <sar1r6$msa$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
> where when they first move into an apartment, I buy them a modem.
just make sure it supports v.92 and is hayes compatible.
wrote:
> where when they first move into an apartment, I buy them a modem.
nospam
Jun 21, 2021, 7:32:44 PM6/21/21
to
In article <sar2qb$12mi$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
> Notice how I turn into instant kindergarten cesspool whenever the
> lack of functionality of Android is proven and I have no _adult_ response.
ftfy
> 1. This is impossible on Android.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PcKvaW5jzw>
ftfy.
note that there is *no* setup needed other than placing the devices
near each other. *nothing*.
also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
app on the macbook and imac.
no digging through folders, no smb shares or ftp servers and no fussing
with usb cables.
i fully expect you to not understand just how powerful this actually is.
you will probably babble about how you can do the same thing by
chaining a bunch of apps together with a perl script running on a linux
box or something equally convoluted and pretend it's just as good, if
it even works at all.
> 2. This is impossible on Android.
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/accessories/standard/Appl
e_iphone12-precision-finding_042021_inline.jpg.large.jpg>
ftfy
note that the precision can be accurate to within a couple of inches.
android is working on their own version, but as always, they're playing
catch-up.
> When I have a kid unbox the Costco modem & routers when they first move into
> an apartment, I have them properly set up the router Wi-Fi AP efficiency.
as if you even know what that entails.
> On Android, that's trivial. On iOS, it's yet again _impossible_ to do.
false. not only is it possible, but it's trivial to do.
it's also not needed since any modern wifi router will automatically
choose a channel that has the least interference and will switch any
time that changes, without the user needing to do anything, such as if
a new neighbor moves in next door.
<https://static.tp-link.com/88_1540285510034l.png>
wrote:
> Notice how I turn into instant kindergarten cesspool whenever the
> lack of functionality of Android is proven and I have no _adult_ response.
ftfy
> 1. This is impossible on Android.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PcKvaW5jzw>
ftfy.
note that there is *no* setup needed other than placing the devices
near each other. *nothing*.
also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
app on the macbook and imac.
no digging through folders, no smb shares or ftp servers and no fussing
with usb cables.
i fully expect you to not understand just how powerful this actually is.
you will probably babble about how you can do the same thing by
chaining a bunch of apps together with a perl script running on a linux
box or something equally convoluted and pretend it's just as good, if
it even works at all.
> 2. This is impossible on Android.
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/accessories/standard/Appl
e_iphone12-precision-finding_042021_inline.jpg.large.jpg>
ftfy
note that the precision can be accurate to within a couple of inches.
android is working on their own version, but as always, they're playing
catch-up.
> When I have a kid unbox the Costco modem & routers when they first move into
> an apartment, I have them properly set up the router Wi-Fi AP efficiency.
> On Android, that's trivial. On iOS, it's yet again _impossible_ to do.
it's also not needed since any modern wifi router will automatically
choose a channel that has the least interference and will switch any
time that changes, without the user needing to do anything, such as if
a new neighbor moves in next door.
<https://static.tp-link.com/88_1540285510034l.png>
paul
Jun 22, 2021, 11:15:53 AM6/22/21
to
nospam wrote on 22.06.2021 01:32
Not bullshit.
The _market_ is who is providing most app functionality more so than either
Google or Apple (because the market provides the functionality people want).
*There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
The reason is simple and rather logical (also obvious to all with a brain):
*Apple limits what the _market can provide_ by way of apps; Google can't.*
The facts are of very many Android app functionalities downloadable on a
non-rooted Android phone that work on the Android phone (all by its itty
bitty self) which are _impossible_ on iOS (all by its itty bitty self).
And yet, the apologists can _never_ find even a _single_ app functionality
on iOS (all by its itty bitty self) that isn't _already_ on Android.
Notice the apologists can _never_ find even a single app functionality on
iOS that is either native or downloaded from the app store that works
without adding an entire set of both a thousands-of-dollars computer &
hundreds upon hundreds of megabytes of pure Apple bloatware.
The fact remains:
*There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
--
If there was, the apologists would have loved to claim it exists.
> note that there is *no* setup needed other than placing the devices
> near each other. *nothing*.
>
> also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
> app on the macbook and imac.
FACTS. LOGIC. SENSE.
> near each other. *nothing*.
>
> also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
> app on the macbook and imac.
Not bullshit.
The _market_ is who is providing most app functionality more so than either
Google or Apple (because the market provides the functionality people want).
*There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
The reason is simple and rather logical (also obvious to all with a brain):
*Apple limits what the _market can provide_ by way of apps; Google can't.*
The facts are of very many Android app functionalities downloadable on a
non-rooted Android phone that work on the Android phone (all by its itty
bitty self) which are _impossible_ on iOS (all by its itty bitty self).
And yet, the apologists can _never_ find even a _single_ app functionality
on iOS (all by its itty bitty self) that isn't _already_ on Android.
Notice the apologists can _never_ find even a single app functionality on
iOS that is either native or downloaded from the app store that works
without adding an entire set of both a thousands-of-dollars computer &
hundreds upon hundreds of megabytes of pure Apple bloatware.
The fact remains:
*There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
--
If there was, the apologists would have loved to claim it exists.
nospam
Jun 22, 2021, 11:37:32 AM6/22/21
to
In article <sasur5$1jfg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
> > note that there is *no* setup needed other than placing the devices
> > near each other. *nothing*.
> >
> > also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
> > app on the macbook and imac.
>
...
>
> The fact remains:
> *There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
except for the functionality above, which as i expected, you did not
understand it, although at least you didn't try to pretend to be able
to duplicate it on android somehow, because that's simply not possible.
there is also the other one you snipped, which uses hardware not
available in any android phone except for one model (which isn't
selling well), except that android doesn't yet support that, so the
second item i listed is also not possible on android.
and then there are the countless additional ones, some of which have
been mentioned in other threads, which is a play on words for yet
another bit of functionality android lacks, and will sail right over
your tiny little head.
wrote:
> > note that there is *no* setup needed other than placing the devices
> > near each other. *nothing*.
> >
> > also note that he dragged a file from the ipad directly into a running
> > app on the macbook and imac.
>
>
> The fact remains:
> *There is no known app functionality on iOS not _already_ on Android.*
understand it, although at least you didn't try to pretend to be able
to duplicate it on android somehow, because that's simply not possible.
there is also the other one you snipped, which uses hardware not
available in any android phone except for one model (which isn't
selling well), except that android doesn't yet support that, so the
second item i listed is also not possible on android.
and then there are the countless additional ones, some of which have
been mentioned in other threads, which is a play on words for yet
another bit of functionality android lacks, and will sail right over
your tiny little head.
Lewis
Jun 22, 2021, 12:03:48 PM6/22/21
to
In message <ijd883...@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> mesh network at home a couple months ago.
> Unlike most consumer routers, Apple’s routers have no default admin
> username and password, which makes them inherently more secure out of
> the box.
> Unlike typical routers, you don’t use a web browser to configure them
> (you use an Apple-designed app instead), which means a whole slew of
> standard methods of attacking the admin interface of most routers can’t
> work on them. Another bonus for security.
This is usually a big negative, as most router apps are HORRIBLE (ask me
ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
utilities are pretty damn great.
> Unlike many consumer routers that you might be able to update for a year
> or so if you’re lucky before the company considers them not worthy of
> updates, Apple continued delivering automatic security and other updates
> to them for many years after the production date.
Remember when they added AirPlay to the Expresses long after they had
discontinued them?
That was very cool, and I am glad I held onto mine.
--
You try to shape the world to what you want the world to be. Carving
your name a thousand times won't bring you back to me. Oh no, no
I might as well go and tell it to the trees. Go and tell it to
the trees, yeah.
> On 2021-06-21, Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> In message <210620211300220790%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <saqc85$2te$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
>>> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Are they even on sale anymore?
>>>>
>>>> No. Kind of disappointing that they abandoned this product category
>>>> since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I
>>>> think the issue is that most people just get a combination
>>>> modem/router from their broadband provider so the sales volume at
>>>> the consumer level wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell
>>>> them.
>>
>>> yep, and that it wasn't worth keeping up with the ever changing wifi
>>> standards.
>>
>>>> I also suspect that the level of technical support was high.
>>
>>> it wasn't.
>>
>>> airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest
>>> of any wifi router ever made.
>>
>> And they run for years. I have a friend who is just now considering
>> replacing his 10 year old Airport hardware.
> Yep. Apple's routers were great. I *just* replaced my old one with a
>> In message <210620211300220790%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> In article <saqc85$2te$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
>>> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Are they even on sale anymore?
>>>>
>>>> No. Kind of disappointing that they abandoned this product category
>>>> since it would have been nice to have an Apple Wi-Fi router, but I
>>>> think the issue is that most people just get a combination
>>>> modem/router from their broadband provider so the sales volume at
>>>> the consumer level wasn't high enough to justify continuing to sell
>>>> them.
>>
>>> yep, and that it wasn't worth keeping up with the ever changing wifi
>>> standards.
>>
>>>> I also suspect that the level of technical support was high.
>>
>>> it wasn't.
>>
>>> airport wifi were *very* easy to set up and use, one of the easiest
>>> of any wifi router ever made.
>>
>> And they run for years. I have a friend who is just now considering
>> replacing his 10 year old Airport hardware.
> mesh network at home a couple months ago.
> Unlike most consumer routers, Apple’s routers have no default admin
> username and password, which makes them inherently more secure out of
> the box.
> Unlike typical routers, you don’t use a web browser to configure them
> (you use an Apple-designed app instead), which means a whole slew of
> standard methods of attacking the admin interface of most routers can’t
> work on them. Another bonus for security.
This is usually a big negative, as most router apps are HORRIBLE (ask me
ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
utilities are pretty damn great.
> Unlike many consumer routers that you might be able to update for a year
> or so if you’re lucky before the company considers them not worthy of
> updates, Apple continued delivering automatic security and other updates
> to them for many years after the production date.
Remember when they added AirPlay to the Expresses long after they had
discontinued them?
That was very cool, and I am glad I held onto mine.
--
You try to shape the world to what you want the world to be. Carving
your name a thousand times won't bring you back to me. Oh no, no
I might as well go and tell it to the trees. Go and tell it to
the trees, yeah.
paul
Jun 22, 2021, 3:08:48 PM6/22/21
to
Lewis wrote on 22.06.2021 16:03
This is just _one_ capability of all my many ubiquiti routers, Lewis:
https://community.ui.com/questions/How-to-find-deal-with-a-holes-in-5Ghz/3100652e-b1f3-49f2-bed6-513a68f377c9
And here is just _one_ capability of all my Mikrotik routers I also use:
https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=69228
You're an ignorant fool if you _think_ an Apple router can do any of that.
https://mum.mikrotik.com/presentations/ZA13/uldis.pdf
These routers cost the same as any consumer router - they're just powerful!
https://ubiquiti.kz/datasheets-and-guides/airOS_UG.pdf
--
What's consistent is not only the ignorance of apologists - but their
confidence (which is based purely on their almost complete ignorance).
> This is usually a big negative, as most router apps are HORRIBLE (ask me
> ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
> utilities are pretty damn great.
*Do apologists have _any_ idea how FANTASTIC router apps are on my routers?*
> ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
> utilities are pretty damn great.
This is just _one_ capability of all my many ubiquiti routers, Lewis:
https://community.ui.com/questions/How-to-find-deal-with-a-holes-in-5Ghz/3100652e-b1f3-49f2-bed6-513a68f377c9
And here is just _one_ capability of all my Mikrotik routers I also use:
https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=69228
You're an ignorant fool if you _think_ an Apple router can do any of that.
https://mum.mikrotik.com/presentations/ZA13/uldis.pdf
These routers cost the same as any consumer router - they're just powerful!
https://ubiquiti.kz/datasheets-and-guides/airOS_UG.pdf
--
What's consistent is not only the ignorance of apologists - but their
confidence (which is based purely on their almost complete ignorance).
nospam
Jun 22, 2021, 3:12:50 PM6/22/21
to
In article <satcfo$1ub8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, paul <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
> > This is usually a big negative, as most router apps are HORRIBLE (ask me
> > ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
> > utilities are pretty damn great.
>
> *Do apologists have _any_ idea how FANTASTIC router apps are on my routers?*
*whooooooooooooosh*
wrote:
> > This is usually a big negative, as most router apps are HORRIBLE (ask me
> > ho wmuch I hate the AMPLIFI and Orbi apps, go on, ask!) but the Airport
> > utilities are pretty damn great.
>
> *Do apologists have _any_ idea how FANTASTIC router apps are on my routers?*
Chris
Jun 24, 2021, 4:37:54 AM6/24/21
to
Can I ask others to check their own routers if they have an iphone,
please? All you need to do is look on the phone under Settings -> Wifi.
Does your home wifi have "Weak security" written underneath it?
Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
iOS Router Security
14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
chip in as well.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
Many thanks all!
Graham J
Jun 24, 2021, 7:00:04 AM6/24/21
to
Chris wrote:
[snip]
>
> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>
> iOS Router Security
> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>
> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
> chip in as well.
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>
> Many thanks all!
Not an iPhone but an iPad
Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
actually have checked.
The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
--
Graham J
[snip]
>
> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>
> iOS Router Security
> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>
> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
> chip in as well.
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>
> Many thanks all!
Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
actually have checked.
The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
--
Graham J
Lewis
Jun 24, 2021, 9:36:18 AM6/24/21
to
In message <sb1oji$h47$1...@dont-email.me> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
>> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
>> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>>
>> iOS Router Security
>> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
>> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>>
>> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
>> chip in as well.
>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>>
>> Many thanks all!
There are quite a lot of routers that say they are using WPA2-PSK AES
> Chris wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
>> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
>> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>>
>> iOS Router Security
>> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
>> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>>
>> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
>> chip in as well.
>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>>
>> Many thanks all!
that are actually using WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]m which I suspect
is the issue.
(My router supports that setting, but the default is WPA2-PSK AES. It
also supports WPA3-Personal SAE, but I suspect that will break many older
devices on the LAN so I've not played with it).
> Not an iPhone but an iPad
> Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
> Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
> Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
> actually have checked.
> The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
> TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
> configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
> message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
> WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
to as I've never heard of it before. WPA-Personal and WPA3=Personal,
yes, WPA2-Personal, no.
TKIP is well and thoroughly skunked, however, and cannot be considered
secure and was deprecated a decade ago. Of course, no wifi encryption is
secure, not even the new WPA3 which was completely hacked before it was
even released.
--
The trouble with witches is that they'll never run away from things
they really hate. And the trouble with small furry animals in a
corner is that, just occasionally, one of them's a mongoose.
--Witches Abroad
Graham J
Jun 24, 2021, 11:29:32 AM6/24/21
to
Lewis wrote:
[snip]>
<https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/dsl-modem-router/td-w8960n/#specifications>
says
"Wireless Security 64/128-bit WEP,WPA / WPA2,WPA-PSK/ WPA2-PSK encryption, "
I see the most recent firmware is V8 so I will try that later. The
datasheet for V8 says " Supports 64/128-bit WEP, WPA/WPA2,
WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK encryptions, " so the same as for V4. No mention of
WPA3 anywhere.
I see "... some WPA3 functionality may require a hardware update ..." so
it's unlikely to be available on older routers.
--
Graham J
[snip]>
> There are quite a lot of routers that say they are using WPA2-PSK AES
> that are actually using WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]m which I suspect
> is the issue.
>
> (My router supports that setting, but the default is WPA2-PSK AES. It
> also supports WPA3-Personal SAE, but I suspect that will break many older
> devices on the LAN so I've not played with it).
>
>> Not an iPhone but an iPad
>> Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
>> Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
>
>> Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
>> actually have checked.
>
>> The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
>> TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
>> configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
>> message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
>> WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
>
> What are the other options? I am not sure what WPA2-Personal translates
> to as I've never heard of it before. WPA-Personal and WPA3=Personal,
> yes, WPA2-Personal, no.
For the TP-Link TD-W8960N router the spec at
> that are actually using WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]m which I suspect
> is the issue.
>
> (My router supports that setting, but the default is WPA2-PSK AES. It
> also supports WPA3-Personal SAE, but I suspect that will break many older
> devices on the LAN so I've not played with it).
>
>> Not an iPhone but an iPad
>> Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
>> Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
>
>> Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
>> actually have checked.
>
>> The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
>> TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
>> configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
>> message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
>> WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
>
> What are the other options? I am not sure what WPA2-Personal translates
> to as I've never heard of it before. WPA-Personal and WPA3=Personal,
> yes, WPA2-Personal, no.
<https://www.tp-link.com/uk/home-networking/dsl-modem-router/td-w8960n/#specifications>
says
"Wireless Security 64/128-bit WEP,WPA / WPA2,WPA-PSK/ WPA2-PSK encryption, "
I see the most recent firmware is V8 so I will try that later. The
datasheet for V8 says " Supports 64/128-bit WEP, WPA/WPA2,
WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK encryptions, " so the same as for V4. No mention of
WPA3 anywhere.
I see "... some WPA3 functionality may require a hardware update ..." so
it's unlikely to be available on older routers.
--
Graham J
Chris
Jun 24, 2021, 2:46:45 PM6/24/21
to
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> My iPhone 11 Pro Max does NOT say "weak security":
>
> iOS Router Security
> 14.6 Netgear Orbi CBR750 WPA2-PSK [AES]
>
Interesting. Thanks!
>
> iOS Router Security
> 14.6 Netgear Orbi CBR750 WPA2-PSK [AES]
>
Interesting. Thanks!
Chris
Jun 24, 2021, 2:54:09 PM6/24/21
to
Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
> In message <sb1oji$h47$1...@dont-email.me> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
>>> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
>>> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>>>
>>> iOS Router Security
>>> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
>>> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>>>
>>> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
>>> chip in as well.
>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>>>
>>> Many thanks all!
>
> There are quite a lot of routers that say they are using WPA2-PSK AES
> that are actually using WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]m which I suspect
> is the issue.
That's what I want to find out. My router interface seems unambiguous as
> In message <sb1oji$h47$1...@dont-email.me> Graham J <nob...@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>
>>>
>>> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
>>> hardware? If you can, can you also report your router's security
>>> settings. For example here's mine and Graham's:
>>>
>>> iOS Router Security
>>> 14.6 TP-Link VR600 WPA2-PSK (AES)
>>> ? Vigor 2860 WPA+WPA2/PSK (AES)
>>>
>>> I've also opened a ticket at Apple and it would be great if others could
>>> chip in as well.
>>> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252887197
>>>
>>> Many thanks all!
>
> There are quite a lot of routers that say they are using WPA2-PSK AES
> that are actually using WPA-PSK [TKIP] + WPA2-PSK [AES]m which I suspect
> is the issue.
WPA2-PSK (AES).
> (My router supports that setting, but the default is WPA2-PSK AES. It
> also supports WPA3-Personal SAE, but I suspect that will break many older
> devices on the LAN so I've not played with it).
>
>> Not an iPhone but an iPad
>> Apple iPad Air 2 : model A1567
>> Update 14.6 installed 10/06/2021
>
>> Problem not noticed with previous version 14.5.1 but I might not
>> actually have checked.
>
>> The only reason I checked was because I wanted to connect to a TP-Link
>> TD-W8960N router (firmware verson 1.1.1 Build 120912 Rel.67406)
>> configured as an access point. This also caused the "Weak Security"
>> message with the suggestion to use WPA3. The TP-Link does not offer
>> WPA3 and is configured for "WPA2-Personal" and "WPA Encryption = AES"
>
> What are the other options? I am not sure what WPA2-Personal translates
> to as I've never heard of it before. WPA-Personal and WPA3=Personal,
> yes, WPA2-Personal, no.
It's "WPA/WPA2 Personal".
Bernd Froehlich
Jun 25, 2021, 3:23:16 AM6/25/21
to
On 24. Jun 2021 at 10:37:53 CEST, "Chris" <ithi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can I ask others to check their own routers if they have an iphone,
> please? All you need to do is look on the phone under Settings -> Wifi.
> Does your home wifi have "Weak security" written underneath it?
Nope.
> Can I ask others to check their own routers if they have an iphone,
> please? All you need to do is look on the phone under Settings -> Wifi.
> Does your home wifi have "Weak security" written underneath it?
> Can you report it here together with your iOS version and router
> hardware?
Fritzbox 7590 (WPA2+WPA3)
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