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Dual Physical SIM Conversion on iPhone 12
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sms
Aug 1, 2021, 2:36:09 PM8/1/21
to
See
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/secret-iphone-hardware-upgrade-apple-doesnt-want-you-to-have/>.
It's quite involved, but a third-party iPhone repair service center
could perform this procedure.
Interesting that the OS doesn't disable this feature (which is only
officially available on iPhones sold in the People's Republic of China).
To be fair, it's not really Apple that doesn't want you to have dual
physical SIMs, it's the many of the carriers that sell the iPhone. In
China, the lack of dual-physical SIM support was negatively affecting
sales to an extent that they added this capability, see
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209086> and
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/09/12/why-china-and-hong-kong-are-getting-unique-new-iphones-the-rest-of-the-world-isnt-getting/?sh=696f02736a43>.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 iOS Features Some of Which [many] Android Users Wish they Had
100 Android Features Some of Which [many] iOS Users Wish they Had
<https://tinyurl.com/fzje7h9e> or
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>
36 Pages of Extensively Referenced Information with Hundreds of
Citations
✓ 100% Fact Checked ✓
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/secret-iphone-hardware-upgrade-apple-doesnt-want-you-to-have/>.
It's quite involved, but a third-party iPhone repair service center
could perform this procedure.
Interesting that the OS doesn't disable this feature (which is only
officially available on iPhones sold in the People's Republic of China).
To be fair, it's not really Apple that doesn't want you to have dual
physical SIMs, it's the many of the carriers that sell the iPhone. In
China, the lack of dual-physical SIM support was negatively affecting
sales to an extent that they added this capability, see
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209086> and
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/09/12/why-china-and-hong-kong-are-getting-unique-new-iphones-the-rest-of-the-world-isnt-getting/?sh=696f02736a43>.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
26 iOS Features Some of Which [many] Android Users Wish they Had
100 Android Features Some of Which [many] iOS Users Wish they Had
<https://tinyurl.com/fzje7h9e> or
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>
36 Pages of Extensively Referenced Information with Hundreds of
Citations
✓ 100% Fact Checked ✓
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 2:58:31 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se6pio$153$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
for the end user. the carriers are resisting it because it makes it
very easy for users to switch and they don't like that.
> In
> China, the lack of dual-physical SIM support was negatively affecting
> sales to an extent that they added this capability,
no it wasn't. iphones without dual sims were selling exceptionally
well, always consistently among the best selling phones.
the reason for physical dual sims in china is that there is limited
support for e-sims there.
even outside china, there's still limited support but it's better than
in china.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> To be fair, it's not really Apple that doesn't want you to have dual
> physical SIMs, it's the many of the carriers that sell the iPhone.
it is apple. they want everything to be e-sim, which is *much* better
> To be fair, it's not really Apple that doesn't want you to have dual
> physical SIMs, it's the many of the carriers that sell the iPhone.
for the end user. the carriers are resisting it because it makes it
very easy for users to switch and they don't like that.
> In
> China, the lack of dual-physical SIM support was negatively affecting
> sales to an extent that they added this capability,
well, always consistently among the best selling phones.
the reason for physical dual sims in china is that there is limited
support for e-sims there.
even outside china, there's still limited support but it's better than
in china.
badgolferman
Aug 1, 2021, 3:01:16 PM8/1/21
to
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 3:13:43 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se6r1r$b9d$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
no need to order a physical sim, wait for it to arrive and try to read
the 20 digit iccid in tiny print and then type it in without errors. a
store can scan the sim card, but that means going to a store which is
an even bigger hassle.
with an e-sim, you can activate service from an app or they email you a
qr code to scan. it's that easy. want to switch service? repeat the
process with the new carrier.
no need to order a physical sim, wait for it to arrive and try to read
the 20 digit iccid in tiny print and then type it in without errors. a
store can scan the sim card, but that means going to a store which is
an even bigger hassle.
with an e-sim, you can activate service from an app or they email you a
qr code to scan. it's that easy. want to switch service? repeat the
process with the new carrier.
badgolferman
Aug 1, 2021, 3:25:24 PM8/1/21
to
or install services themselves Examples are cable companies or computer
companies which just send you everything in the mail to do it yourself.
I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
associated costs all together.
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 3:45:08 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se6sf3$kmf$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
cable tv companies have a monopoly. who are you going to switch to?
easy to activate means it's easy to get a new customer, but without any
competition, you're locked in, no matter what they do.
> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> associated costs all together.
that's true, but it also makes it very easy to switch to a competitor,
which the carriers don't like.
unlike cable tv, there is a *lot* of competition for cellular service,
and not just the big 3, but shitloads of mvnos.
cell carriers offer various 'deals', such as 'free' phones with 2 year
contracts to lock you in. even with an e-sim you're still on the hook
for the duration of the contract, which guarantees a profit.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
> >
> > no need to order a physical sim, wait for it to arrive and try to read
> > the 20 digit iccid in tiny print and then type it in without errors. a
> > store can scan the sim card, but that means going to a store which is
> > an even bigger hassle.
> >
> > with an e-sim, you can activate service from an app or they email you a
> > qr code to scan. it's that easy. want to switch service? repeat the
> > process with the new carrier.
> >
>
> Is that why so many other industries have made it easy for consumers to fix
> or install services themselves Examples are cable companies or computer
> companies which just send you everything in the mail to do it yourself.
it depends on the industry.
> >> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
> >
> > no need to order a physical sim, wait for it to arrive and try to read
> > the 20 digit iccid in tiny print and then type it in without errors. a
> > store can scan the sim card, but that means going to a store which is
> > an even bigger hassle.
> >
> > with an e-sim, you can activate service from an app or they email you a
> > qr code to scan. it's that easy. want to switch service? repeat the
> > process with the new carrier.
> >
>
> Is that why so many other industries have made it easy for consumers to fix
> or install services themselves Examples are cable companies or computer
> companies which just send you everything in the mail to do it yourself.
cable tv companies have a monopoly. who are you going to switch to?
easy to activate means it's easy to get a new customer, but without any
competition, you're locked in, no matter what they do.
> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> associated costs all together.
which the carriers don't like.
unlike cable tv, there is a *lot* of competition for cellular service,
and not just the big 3, but shitloads of mvnos.
cell carriers offer various 'deals', such as 'free' phones with 2 year
contracts to lock you in. even with an e-sim you're still on the hook
for the duration of the contract, which guarantees a profit.
sms
Aug 1, 2021, 4:13:38 PM8/1/21
to
On 8/1/2021 12:01 PM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
No need for the new carrier to supply a physical SIM card.
OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another, you have
to contact the carrier to swap devices. Sometimes you may want a
physical SIM to use in a device that doesn't support eSIM like a mobile
hotspot.
eSIM is not yet well supported in the world. The three U.S. carriers
offer it for postpaid, but not many MVNOs support it yet. OTOH, some
global SIM card providers do support eSIM and the data cost for an eSIM
is often lower than for a physical SIM.
Phone makers have been adding eSIM to higher-end models, but companies
like Samsung have not added eSIM to their mid-range phones. If you have
a non-flagship phone that you want to use when you're doing things where
you don't want to bring your expensive phone along, you can't do that
with eSIM. I.e., I know some people that use a cheap phone when cycling
with the phone attached to a handlebar holder, moving their SIM card
over, when they don't want to carry their $1000+ flagship.
In China, iPhone sales were not great until the introduction of the Xr
and Xs and one of the major reasons was the lack of dual SIM. See
<https://www.inkstonenews.com/tech/new-iphone-gets-dual-sim-capacity-china-market/article/2164075>:
"Apple has a huge fan base in Greater China, raking in $45 billion sales
in the fiscal year of 2017 – about 20% of its total annual sales – but
its popularity has been in decline since 2015. Apple dropped to fourth
place in smartphone shipments in the first three months of 2018, after
three domestic brands, Huawei, Oppo and Vivo, according to
Counterpoint." Sales are still not great, but at least they've
eliminated one of the major objections of Chinese consumers.
While it's great that they finally came out with dual physical SIM
models, as James Yan, research director at Counterpoint Research stated:
“If the dual-SIM function had come out four or five years ago, the
market reaction would have been explosive.” He's spot on. It's very
difficult to get users to change platforms in either direction, iOS to
Android or Android to iOS.
Of course the dual SIM capability was not the only issue for the iPhone
in China. Another factor is that there are exponentially more Android
apps thanks to the large number of app stores, despite the fact that the
Google Play Store is not even available in China. Price is an issue, the
Chinese-branded flagships are less expensive than Samsung or Apple
flagships. Another big issue in China was how late Apple was with large
screen phones like the Xr and Xs Max. In China, the phone is often the
only internet access device someone has access to outside of work and
there was a preference for very large phones/phablets, there are even
some phablets greater than 8.0."
The market share for iPhone in China has fluctuated between 8% and 17%,
and in the last reported quarter, Q12020, it was at 13%, see
<https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/>.
<snip>
> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another, you have
to contact the carrier to swap devices. Sometimes you may want a
physical SIM to use in a device that doesn't support eSIM like a mobile
hotspot.
eSIM is not yet well supported in the world. The three U.S. carriers
offer it for postpaid, but not many MVNOs support it yet. OTOH, some
global SIM card providers do support eSIM and the data cost for an eSIM
is often lower than for a physical SIM.
Phone makers have been adding eSIM to higher-end models, but companies
like Samsung have not added eSIM to their mid-range phones. If you have
a non-flagship phone that you want to use when you're doing things where
you don't want to bring your expensive phone along, you can't do that
with eSIM. I.e., I know some people that use a cheap phone when cycling
with the phone attached to a handlebar holder, moving their SIM card
over, when they don't want to carry their $1000+ flagship.
In China, iPhone sales were not great until the introduction of the Xr
and Xs and one of the major reasons was the lack of dual SIM. See
<https://www.inkstonenews.com/tech/new-iphone-gets-dual-sim-capacity-china-market/article/2164075>:
"Apple has a huge fan base in Greater China, raking in $45 billion sales
in the fiscal year of 2017 – about 20% of its total annual sales – but
its popularity has been in decline since 2015. Apple dropped to fourth
place in smartphone shipments in the first three months of 2018, after
three domestic brands, Huawei, Oppo and Vivo, according to
Counterpoint." Sales are still not great, but at least they've
eliminated one of the major objections of Chinese consumers.
While it's great that they finally came out with dual physical SIM
models, as James Yan, research director at Counterpoint Research stated:
“If the dual-SIM function had come out four or five years ago, the
market reaction would have been explosive.” He's spot on. It's very
difficult to get users to change platforms in either direction, iOS to
Android or Android to iOS.
Of course the dual SIM capability was not the only issue for the iPhone
in China. Another factor is that there are exponentially more Android
apps thanks to the large number of app stores, despite the fact that the
Google Play Store is not even available in China. Price is an issue, the
Chinese-branded flagships are less expensive than Samsung or Apple
flagships. Another big issue in China was how late Apple was with large
screen phones like the Xr and Xs Max. In China, the phone is often the
only internet access device someone has access to outside of work and
there was a preference for very large phones/phablets, there are even
some phablets greater than 8.0."
The market share for iPhone in China has fluctuated between 8% and 17%,
and in the last reported quarter, Q12020, it was at 13%, see
<https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-smartphone-share/>.
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 4:46:57 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se6v9g$7v9$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another,
obviously, which is a feature, not a bug.
> you have
> to contact the carrier to swap devices.
where 'contact the carrier' is download an app or fill out a webpage.
it takes just seconds to do.
that's a *lot* faster and easier than finding a paper clip to pop out
the sim drawer and swap the sim while hoping not to drop it and then
waiting for the phone to recognize it.
> Sometimes you may want a
> physical SIM to use in a device that doesn't support eSIM like a mobile
> hotspot.
no need since the phone can act as a hotspot, plus a hotspot won't work
with a phone plan and vice versa.
> eSIM is not yet well supported in the world.
because the carriers don't want it.
apple and google have been pushing e-sims for *years*. the carriers are
dragging their feet, bitching all the way.
> In China, iPhone sales were not great until the introduction of the Xr
> and Xs and one of the major reasons was the lack of dual SIM.
absolutely false. why do you consistently lie?
iphones have consistently been among the best selling smartphones in
china, if not *the* best selling smartphone.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-iphone-x-top-seller-in-china-send
ing-revenue-up-21-percent.html>
On the companyąs earnings call, CEO Tim Cook said that the iPhone X,
the companyąs newest model, łwas the most popular smartphone in all
of China last quarter.˛
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/02/china-iphone-x-sales/>
And as for the iPhone X being too spendy, Tim Cook said not,
reporting that the flagship iPhone was the most popular
smartphone in the country across the quarter.
iPhone X was the most popular smartphone in all of China last
quarter. And so iPhone X has done well there [Š] More broadly on
the iPhone, the iPhone was the top three selling phones in China.
And so itąs iPhone X was number one, but we had several in the top.
<https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/30/iphone-8-helped-apple-sell-40-more-s
martphones-in-china-last-quarter/>
While customers in the U.S. may be indifferent to the new iPhone 8,
China appears to be a different story. As a result, Apple saw its
first increase in smartphone sales in that critical market after an
18-month losing streak.
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/iphone-7-plus-was-almost-chinas-top-se
lling-phone-in-2017/>
The iPhone 7 Plus was the second-best selling phone in the populous
nation last year, accounting for 2.8 percent of all smartphone sales,
according to Counterpoint Research. It was bested only by the Oppo
R9S, a phone from Chinese manufacturer Oppo that takes design cues
from the iPhone, which grabbed 3 percent of the market share.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/12/apple-selling-out-iphone-6s-in-china-ea
rly-data-suggests.html>
The day is barely over on the first day Appleąs new iPhone 6S and
6S Plus was made available for pre-ordering globally and early data
suggests Apple has little to worry. Demand is stronger in China than
in most regions of the world including the U.S.
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/09/22/iphone-6s-
being-sold-for-insane-amounts-of-money-in-china/>
BEIJING -- For those complaining about the price of a new iPhone,
try buying one in China.
Delayed by governmental red tape, the iPhone 6 is selling for as
much as 10 times the U.S. price in a thriving black market that's
popped up in a matter of days.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
>
> No need for the new carrier to supply a physical SIM card.
yep.
> > How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
>
> No need for the new carrier to supply a physical SIM card.
> OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another,
> you have
> to contact the carrier to swap devices.
it takes just seconds to do.
that's a *lot* faster and easier than finding a paper clip to pop out
the sim drawer and swap the sim while hoping not to drop it and then
waiting for the phone to recognize it.
> Sometimes you may want a
> physical SIM to use in a device that doesn't support eSIM like a mobile
> hotspot.
with a phone plan and vice versa.
> eSIM is not yet well supported in the world.
apple and google have been pushing e-sims for *years*. the carriers are
dragging their feet, bitching all the way.
> In China, iPhone sales were not great until the introduction of the Xr
> and Xs and one of the major reasons was the lack of dual SIM.
iphones have consistently been among the best selling smartphones in
china, if not *the* best selling smartphone.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/apple-iphone-x-top-seller-in-china-send
ing-revenue-up-21-percent.html>
On the companyąs earnings call, CEO Tim Cook said that the iPhone X,
the companyąs newest model, łwas the most popular smartphone in all
of China last quarter.˛
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/02/china-iphone-x-sales/>
And as for the iPhone X being too spendy, Tim Cook said not,
reporting that the flagship iPhone was the most popular
smartphone in the country across the quarter.
iPhone X was the most popular smartphone in all of China last
quarter. And so iPhone X has done well there [Š] More broadly on
the iPhone, the iPhone was the top three selling phones in China.
And so itąs iPhone X was number one, but we had several in the top.
<https://venturebeat.com/2017/10/30/iphone-8-helped-apple-sell-40-more-s
martphones-in-china-last-quarter/>
While customers in the U.S. may be indifferent to the new iPhone 8,
China appears to be a different story. As a result, Apple saw its
first increase in smartphone sales in that critical market after an
18-month losing streak.
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/iphone-7-plus-was-almost-chinas-top-se
lling-phone-in-2017/>
The iPhone 7 Plus was the second-best selling phone in the populous
nation last year, accounting for 2.8 percent of all smartphone sales,
according to Counterpoint Research. It was bested only by the Oppo
R9S, a phone from Chinese manufacturer Oppo that takes design cues
from the iPhone, which grabbed 3 percent of the market share.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/12/apple-selling-out-iphone-6s-in-china-ea
rly-data-suggests.html>
The day is barely over on the first day Appleąs new iPhone 6S and
6S Plus was made available for pre-ordering globally and early data
suggests Apple has little to worry. Demand is stronger in China than
in most regions of the world including the U.S.
<https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/09/22/iphone-6s-
being-sold-for-insane-amounts-of-money-in-china/>
BEIJING -- For those complaining about the price of a new iPhone,
try buying one in China.
Delayed by governmental red tape, the iPhone 6 is selling for as
much as 10 times the U.S. price in a thriving black market that's
popped up in a matter of days.
sms
Aug 1, 2021, 5:13:53 PM8/1/21
to
On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> associated costs all together.
It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
the airport.
<snip>
> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> associated costs all together.
physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
the airport.
badgolferman
Aug 1, 2021, 5:38:49 PM8/1/21
to
should respond to him.
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 5:54:49 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se72qg$uhv$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
cdma phones were effectively locked to a carrier because the esns were
in the carrier's database, although sometimes there were ways around
that with the msl.
e-sims are *not* locked.
your comparison is bogus.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
nope.
>
> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
cdma phones were effectively locked to a carrier because the esns were
in the carrier's database, although sometimes there were ways around
that with the msl.
e-sims are *not* locked.
your comparison is bogus.
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 5:54:50 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se7497$7pk$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
the reason he bashes me so much is because i've been refuting his
bullshit for *years*. he bashes anyone who refutes him.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> should respond to him.
he won't.
> nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> should respond to him.
the reason he bashes me so much is because i've been refuting his
bullshit for *years*. he bashes anyone who refutes him.
sms
Aug 1, 2021, 5:57:16 PM8/1/21
to
On 8/1/2021 2:38 PM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
> nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> should respond to him.
LOL, I have him filtered out because he never provided any cites or
references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and nothing
more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about sales
volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly misleading to look
at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual Android manufacturer,
rather than as Android phone sales as a whole.
The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along the
lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable, "“Only super
rich, really high-paid professionals buy iPhones in China -- you’re not
talking about lots and lots of people,” said John Zhang, faculty
director of the Penn Wharton China Center, and a professor of marketing.
“That means at some point, you’re not going to be able to grow unless
you put out new innovative products to keep your people engaged, which
is not the case with Apple.”
<snip>
> nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> should respond to him.
references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and nothing
more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about sales
volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly misleading to look
at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual Android manufacturer,
rather than as Android phone sales as a whole.
The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along the
lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable, "“Only super
rich, really high-paid professionals buy iPhones in China -- you’re not
talking about lots and lots of people,” said John Zhang, faculty
director of the Penn Wharton China Center, and a professor of marketing.
“That means at some point, you’re not going to be able to grow unless
you put out new innovative products to keep your people engaged, which
is not the case with Apple.”
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 6:22:02 PM8/1/21
to
In article <se75br$dpl$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
i *always* provide cites, unless the claim is so fucked up that it's an
obvious troll, but even in those cases, i will provide cites if need
be.
it gets tiresome to refute your bullshit all the time, so after a
while, i might just say bullshit because of all the other times it's
been refuted.
> So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about sales
> volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly misleading to look
> at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual Android manufacturer,
> rather than as Android phone sales as a whole.
as expected, you doubled-down on being wrong.
you incorrectly claimed the lack of dual sims adversely affected iphone
sales until the xs/xr.
now you're trying to move the goalposts to market share, ignoring the
fact that nearly all of the other android phones did *not* have dual
sims.
if dual sims mattered, then those other android phones would also be
poor sellers.
the other thing you're ignoring is not whether a phone has dual-sim,
but if *both* sims are activated. for many people, the second sim is
not used, ever, including in china.
the reality is that dual sims had little to no effect on iphone sales,
backed up by sales data going back many years (and even more below).
the reality, as shown by sales data, is that iphones have consistently
been top sellers going back to at least the iphone 6, when i stopped
bothering to find cites.
you tried to move the goalposts and ended up digging yourself a deeper
hole.
<https://www.cnet.com/news/apples-iphone-5s-boosts-fourth-quarter-sales-
in-china/>
Apple's iPhone 5S has proven to be popular in China.
The company sold a record number of smartphones in the country
during 2013's fourth quarter, according to data from research firm
IDC reported by The Wall Street Journal. These numbers were
reportedly driven by demand for the iPhone 5S.
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-i
n-China-Top-Two-Million/>
³Customer response to iPhone 5 in China has been incredible, setting
a new record with the best first weekend sales ever in China,² said
Tim Cook, Apple¹s CEO. ³China is a very important market for us and
customers there cannot wait to get their hands on Apple products.²
<https://phys.org/news/2010-09-apple-iphone-sales-strong-china.html>
More than 200,000 Apple iPhone 4s have been snapped up in
China within days of going on sale while waiting lists stretch to the
end of October, state media reported Wednesday.
> The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along the
> lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable, "³Only super
> rich, really high-paid professionals buy iPhones in China -- you¹re not
> talking about lots and lots of people,² said John Zhang, faculty
> director of the Penn Wharton China Center, and a professor of marketing.
> ³That means at some point, you¹re not going to be able to grow unless
> you put out new innovative products to keep your people engaged, which
> is not the case with Apple.²
your claims do not match actual sales data.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 8/1/2021 2:38 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> > should respond to him.
>
> LOL, I have him filtered out because he never provided any cites or
> references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and nothing
> more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
get off your high horse and stop lying.
> On 8/1/2021 2:38 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> > should respond to him.
>
> LOL, I have him filtered out because he never provided any cites or
> references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and nothing
> more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
i *always* provide cites, unless the claim is so fucked up that it's an
obvious troll, but even in those cases, i will provide cites if need
be.
it gets tiresome to refute your bullshit all the time, so after a
while, i might just say bullshit because of all the other times it's
been refuted.
> So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about sales
> volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly misleading to look
> at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual Android manufacturer,
> rather than as Android phone sales as a whole.
you incorrectly claimed the lack of dual sims adversely affected iphone
sales until the xs/xr.
now you're trying to move the goalposts to market share, ignoring the
fact that nearly all of the other android phones did *not* have dual
sims.
if dual sims mattered, then those other android phones would also be
poor sellers.
the other thing you're ignoring is not whether a phone has dual-sim,
but if *both* sims are activated. for many people, the second sim is
not used, ever, including in china.
the reality is that dual sims had little to no effect on iphone sales,
backed up by sales data going back many years (and even more below).
the reality, as shown by sales data, is that iphones have consistently
been top sellers going back to at least the iphone 6, when i stopped
bothering to find cites.
you tried to move the goalposts and ended up digging yourself a deeper
hole.
<https://www.cnet.com/news/apples-iphone-5s-boosts-fourth-quarter-sales-
in-china/>
Apple's iPhone 5S has proven to be popular in China.
The company sold a record number of smartphones in the country
during 2013's fourth quarter, according to data from research firm
IDC reported by The Wall Street Journal. These numbers were
reportedly driven by demand for the iPhone 5S.
<https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-i
n-China-Top-Two-Million/>
³Customer response to iPhone 5 in China has been incredible, setting
a new record with the best first weekend sales ever in China,² said
Tim Cook, Apple¹s CEO. ³China is a very important market for us and
customers there cannot wait to get their hands on Apple products.²
<https://phys.org/news/2010-09-apple-iphone-sales-strong-china.html>
More than 200,000 Apple iPhone 4s have been snapped up in
China within days of going on sale while waiting lists stretch to the
end of October, state media reported Wednesday.
> The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along the
> lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable, "³Only super
> rich, really high-paid professionals buy iPhones in China -- you¹re not
> talking about lots and lots of people,² said John Zhang, faculty
> director of the Penn Wharton China Center, and a professor of marketing.
> ³That means at some point, you¹re not going to be able to grow unless
> you put out new innovative products to keep your people engaged, which
your claims do not match actual sales data.
nospam
Aug 1, 2021, 6:22:45 PM8/1/21
to
In article <010820211754495414%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
>
>
> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> > should respond to him.
>
> he won't.
and he didn't, as expected.
> > sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
>
>
> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never happens. Maybe you
> > should respond to him.
>
> he won't.
Joerg Lorenz
Aug 2, 2021, 4:42:42 AM8/2/21
to
Am 01.08.21 um 22:46 schrieb nospam:
>> you have
>> to contact the carrier to swap devices.
>
> where 'contact the carrier' is download an app or fill out a webpage.
> it takes just seconds to do.
Simply not acceptable even if it were only 1 s.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
> In article <se6v9g$7v9$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
>>
>> No need for the new carrier to supply a physical SIM card.
>
> yep.
>
>> OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another,
>
> obviously, which is a feature, not a bug.
And exactely one of many reasons why it is not well accepted elsewhere.
> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> How does e-sim make it easier for users to switch carriers?
>>
>> No need for the new carrier to supply a physical SIM card.
>
> yep.
>
>> OTOH, you can't just move an eSIM from one device to another,
>
> obviously, which is a feature, not a bug.
>> you have
>> to contact the carrier to swap devices.
>
> where 'contact the carrier' is download an app or fill out a webpage.
> it takes just seconds to do.
--
De gustibus non est disputandum
badgolferman
Aug 2, 2021, 7:57:53 AM8/2/21
to
nospam wrote:
>In article <se75br$dpl$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
><scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/2021 2:38 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never
>>happens. Maybe you > should respond to him.
>>
>> LOL, I have him filtered out because he never provided any cites
>>or references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and
>>nothing more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
>
>get off your high horse and stop lying.
>
>i always provide cites, unless the claim is so fucked up that it's an
>In article <se75br$dpl$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
><scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/1/2021 2:38 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> > nospam is refuting you with cites which you claim never
>>happens. Maybe you > should respond to him.
>>
>> LOL, I have him filtered out because he never provided any cites
>>or references. His usual response was to just say "bullshit" and
>>nothing more. Perhaps I got him to change his ways.
>
>get off your high horse and stop lying.
>
>obvious troll, but even in those cases, i will provide cites if need
>be.
>
>it gets tiresome to refute your bullshit all the time, so after a
>while, i might just say bullshit because of all the other times it's
>been refuted.
>
>> So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about
>>sales volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly
>>misleading to look at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual
>>Android manufacturer, rather than as Android phone sales as a
>>whole.
>
>as expected, you doubled-down on being wrong.
>
>you incorrectly claimed the lack of dual sims adversely affected
>iphone sales until the xs/xr.
>
>now you're trying to move the goalposts to market share, ignoring the
>fact that nearly all of the other android phones did not have dual
>be.
>
>it gets tiresome to refute your bullshit all the time, so after a
>while, i might just say bullshit because of all the other times it's
>been refuted.
>
>> So I looked at his post over on Google Groups. His cites about
>>sales volumes were from three years ago. It's also highly
>>misleading to look at iPhone sales versus sales of each individual
>>Android manufacturer, rather than as Android phone sales as a
>>whole.
>
>as expected, you doubled-down on being wrong.
>
>you incorrectly claimed the lack of dual sims adversely affected
>iphone sales until the xs/xr.
>
>now you're trying to move the goalposts to market share, ignoring the
>sims.
>
>if dual sims mattered, then those other android phones would also be
>poor sellers.
>
>the other thing you're ignoring is not whether a phone has dual-sim,
>but if both sims are activated. for many people, the second sim is
>
>if dual sims mattered, then those other android phones would also be
>poor sellers.
>
>the other thing you're ignoring is not whether a phone has dual-sim,
>not used, ever, including in china.
>
>the reality is that dual sims had little to no effect on iphone sales,
>backed up by sales data going back many years (and even more below).
>
>the reality, as shown by sales data, is that iphones have consistently
>been top sellers going back to at least the iphone 6, when i stopped
>bothering to find cites.
>
>you tried to move the goalposts and ended up digging yourself a deeper
>hole.
>
><https://www.cnet.com/news/apples-iphone-5s-boosts-fourth-quarter-sales-
>in-china/>
> Apple's iPhone 5S has proven to be popular in China.
>
> The company sold a record number of smartphones in the country
> during 2013's fourth quarter, according to data from research firm
> IDC reported by The Wall Street Journal. These numbers were
> reportedly driven by demand for the iPhone 5S.
>
><https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-i
>n-China-Top-Two-Million/>
> łCustomer response to iPhone 5 in China has been incredible, setting
>
>the reality is that dual sims had little to no effect on iphone sales,
>backed up by sales data going back many years (and even more below).
>
>the reality, as shown by sales data, is that iphones have consistently
>been top sellers going back to at least the iphone 6, when i stopped
>bothering to find cites.
>
>you tried to move the goalposts and ended up digging yourself a deeper
>hole.
>
><https://www.cnet.com/news/apples-iphone-5s-boosts-fourth-quarter-sales-
>in-china/>
> Apple's iPhone 5S has proven to be popular in China.
>
> The company sold a record number of smartphones in the country
> during 2013's fourth quarter, according to data from research firm
> IDC reported by The Wall Street Journal. These numbers were
> reportedly driven by demand for the iPhone 5S.
>
><https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-i
>n-China-Top-Two-Million/>
> a new record with the best first weekend sales ever in China,˛ said
> Tim Cook, Appleąs CEO. łChina is a very important market for us and
> customers there cannot wait to get their hands on Apple products.˛
>
><https://phys.org/news/2010-09-apple-iphone-sales-strong-china.html>
> More than 200,000 Apple iPhone 4s have been snapped up in
> China within days of going on sale while waiting lists stretch to
>the end of October, state media reported Wednesday.
>
>> The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along
>>the lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable,
>>"łOnly super rich, really high-paid professionals buy iPhones in
>
><https://phys.org/news/2010-09-apple-iphone-sales-strong-china.html>
> More than 200,000 Apple iPhone 4s have been snapped up in
> China within days of going on sale while waiting lists stretch to
>the end of October, state media reported Wednesday.
>
>> The iPhone in China used to be viewed as a designer product, along
>>the lines of Hermes and Louis Vuitton, and was unaffordable,
>>China -- youąre not talking about lots and lots of people,˛ said
>>John Zhang, faculty director of the Penn Wharton China Center, and
>>a professor of marketing. łThat means at some point, youąre not
>>going to be able to grow unless you put out new innovative
>>products to keep your people engaged, which is not the case with
>>Apple.˛
>
>your claims do not match actual sales data.
Why would sms ignore any of these? Maybe he finds data to backup his
>>products to keep your people engaged, which is not the case with
>>Apple.˛
>
>your claims do not match actual sales data.
claims just like you do.
I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
he's not as confident in his own claims.
sms
Aug 2, 2021, 9:20:13 AM8/2/21
to
On 8/2/2021 4:57 AM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
> I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> he's not as confident in his own claims.
First, ignore any claims by Apple. Of course they will spin things.
Second, while sales of the 4s are really not relevant.
Third, look at independent media reports, i.e.
<https://www.imore.com/iphone-12-isnt-living-iphone-x-sales-performance-china>.
Critical thinking skills are very important!
<snip>
> I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> he's not as confident in his own claims.
Second, while sales of the 4s are really not relevant.
Third, look at independent media reports, i.e.
<https://www.imore.com/iphone-12-isnt-living-iphone-x-sales-performance-china>.
Critical thinking skills are very important!
nospam
Aug 2, 2021, 12:11:10 PM8/2/21
to
In article <se8mk0$s1$1...@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
decades.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> he's not as confident in his own claims.
he says bogus shit to troll. he's been doing the same thing for several
>
> I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> he's not as confident in his own claims.
decades.
nospam
Aug 2, 2021, 12:11:12 PM8/2/21
to
In article <se8reb$2n6$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
in particular, sales data. if they did, they'd be in a world of hurt.
you, on the other hand, have made lying a lifelong career.
> Second, while sales of the 4s are really not relevant.
your claim was that iphones prior to the xs/xr, ones without a dual sim
did not sell well.
that is false.
the reality is that iphones have been among the top selling phones in
china and elsewhere, if not *the* top selling phone.
> Third, look at independent media reports, i.e.
>
> <https://www.imore.com/iphone-12-isnt-living-iphone-x-sales-performance-china>.
that is not an independent media report, nor is it relevant to your
original claim about dual sim iphones.
your previous claim was that iphones prior to the xs/xr were weak
because they did not have dual sims. now you claim that sales of the
iphone 12, with dual sims, is weaker than the iphone x which had a
single sim.
you're contradicting yourself, again.
the above link is also opposite to another report from the very same
web site:
<https://www.imore.com/apple-enjoys-brisk-iphone-sales-china-double-digi
t-growth-expected>
A new report says Apple sold 2.7 million iPhones in China last
month, enjoying "brisk" sales of the iPhone 11 and iPhone 12,
including Apple's latest new purple color.
and it's also not the only source of strong iphone 12 sales:
<https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210112PD207.html>
Sales of the iPhone 12 lineup in the China market were higher than
expected in the fourth quarter of 2020, reaching 18 million units for
an over 20% market share, according to data available from the local
media.
<https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3131606/chinese-consumers-pu
sh-apple-record-second-quarter-china-thanks-5g>
The company was łespecially pleased by the customer response
in China to the iPhone 12 family˛, Apple chief executive Tim Cook
said in a conference call with analysts, adding that the top two
bestselling models in urban China in the quarter came from the
company.
> Critical thinking skills are very important!
if only you had some.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> > he's not as confident in his own claims.
>
> First, ignore any claims by Apple. Of course they will spin things.
as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
> > I think his reluctance to engage in discussion with dissenters proves
> > he's not as confident in his own claims.
>
> First, ignore any claims by Apple. Of course they will spin things.
in particular, sales data. if they did, they'd be in a world of hurt.
you, on the other hand, have made lying a lifelong career.
> Second, while sales of the 4s are really not relevant.
did not sell well.
that is false.
the reality is that iphones have been among the top selling phones in
china and elsewhere, if not *the* top selling phone.
> Third, look at independent media reports, i.e.
>
> <https://www.imore.com/iphone-12-isnt-living-iphone-x-sales-performance-china>.
original claim about dual sim iphones.
your previous claim was that iphones prior to the xs/xr were weak
because they did not have dual sims. now you claim that sales of the
iphone 12, with dual sims, is weaker than the iphone x which had a
single sim.
you're contradicting yourself, again.
the above link is also opposite to another report from the very same
web site:
<https://www.imore.com/apple-enjoys-brisk-iphone-sales-china-double-digi
t-growth-expected>
A new report says Apple sold 2.7 million iPhones in China last
month, enjoying "brisk" sales of the iPhone 11 and iPhone 12,
including Apple's latest new purple color.
and it's also not the only source of strong iphone 12 sales:
<https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210112PD207.html>
Sales of the iPhone 12 lineup in the China market were higher than
expected in the fourth quarter of 2020, reaching 18 million units for
an over 20% market share, according to data available from the local
media.
<https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3131606/chinese-consumers-pu
sh-apple-record-second-quarter-china-thanks-5g>
The company was łespecially pleased by the customer response
in China to the iPhone 12 family˛, Apple chief executive Tim Cook
said in a conference call with analysts, adding that the top two
bestselling models in urban China in the quarter came from the
company.
> Critical thinking skills are very important!
-hh
Aug 2, 2021, 1:14:39 PM8/2/21
to
On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> > hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> > associated costs all together.
>
> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
Likewise, consider how much the carriers choose to charge their customers
> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> > hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> > associated costs all together.
>
> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
who just want to upgrade their hardware (ie, customer DIY's the SIM swap);
IIRC, the current Verizon "activation charge" is $35 a throw.
Because that no matter how technologically "easy" it may become to change
eSIMs, that's not any sort of assurance that carriers won't tack on a fee.
> I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
> traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
> roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
> the airport.
flight, because of the differences in costs between carriers. To that end, I'm
of the opinion that on an "all other factors ~equal" basis, I'd prefer to have a dual
SIM capable smartphone, as a superior alternative to carrying two smartphones.
FWIW, as a sidestep around such hassles in the near term, I'm thinking about
keeping an older iPhone in serviceable condition and seeing about either a
cheap plan which includes international, or going with a local "buy in arriving airport"
plan that I'd then aim a Google Phone# forwarder to, so that family can stay in
touch at less outrageous international rates than what Verizon asks. Of course,
with a dual-SIM smartphone ... /s
-hh
sms
Aug 2, 2021, 2:10:11 PM8/2/21
to
On 8/2/2021 10:14 AM, -hh wrote:
> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
>>> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
>>> associated costs all together.
>>
>> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
>> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
>> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
>> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
>> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
>
> Likewise, consider how much the carriers choose to charge their customers
> who just want to upgrade their hardware (ie, customer DIY's the SIM swap);
> IIRC, the current Verizon "activation charge" is $35 a throw.
Yeah, every ridiculous fee they can think of. At least the MVNOs and the
> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
>>> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
>>> associated costs all together.
>>
>> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
>> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
>> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
>> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
>> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
>
> Likewise, consider how much the carriers choose to charge their customers
> who just want to upgrade their hardware (ie, customer DIY's the SIM swap);
> IIRC, the current Verizon "activation charge" is $35 a throw.
carriers' own prepaid services, don't charge this activation fee.
> Because that no matter how technologically "easy" it may become to change
> eSIMs, that's not any sort of assurance that carriers won't tack on a fee.
slot for a foreign SIM, given the high cost of international roaming. At
least you want to buy a data-only SIM and use a VOIP service for text
and voice. However now there are some global providers that are offering
good prices on data if you have an eSIM phone (no voice or SMS but you
can use Google Voice). Also, Verizon MVNO U.S. Mobile includes up to
10GB of international roaming data, per line, on their unlimited plan (1
line $45, 4 lines for $100), only on eSIM-capable phones, see
<https://www.usmobile.com/international-roaming-phone-plans>. They also
sell eSIM data even if you're not a US Mobile customer
>> I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
>> traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
>> roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
>> the airport.
>
> I can recall years ago a bush pilot swapping out SIMs after they landed our
> flight, because of the differences in costs between carriers. To that end, I'm
> of the opinion that on an "all other factors ~equal" basis, I'd prefer to have a dual
> SIM capable smartphone, as a superior alternative to carrying two smartphones.
riding with me from Guangzhou to Hong Kong and it was amusing to see
him, and most of the other Chinese passengers, swapping SIMs as the
train went into Hong Kong.
Apple's China marketing team finally convinced Apple to offer dual-SIM
models for China as part of an effort to boost poor sales. But it was
very late and it's hard to get someone to change from Android to iOS
once they've been on Android for a while and have a lot of apps,
especially in China where there are so many apps that are Android-only.
> FWIW, as a sidestep around such hassles in the near term, I'm thinking about
> keeping an older iPhone in serviceable condition and seeing about either a
> cheap plan which includes international, or going with a local "buy in arriving airport"
> plan that I'd then aim a Google Phone# forwarder to, so that family can stay in
> touch at less outrageous international rates than what Verizon asks. Of course,
> with a dual-SIM smartphone ... /s
I like having service as soon as I land, especially to be able to use
apps like Moovit
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/moovit-all-transit-options/id498477945>.
When I went to China in 2019 I bought a China Unicom Hong Kong data-only
SIM from Amazon. Since it was from Hong Kong it didn't block Google,
Facebook, WhatsApp, etc.. As soon as I landed I had service. I also
brought a phone with a T-Mobile SIM card that included low-speed data
(provided to my employer at no cost since in an effort to get us to move
all our lines from Verizon to T-Mobile), but the low-speed data is
REALLY low speed!
When we went to Italy in 2019 I ordered UK Vodafone SIM cards online. As
soon as we landed we had service. Alas, now that the UK is out of the EU
Vodafone significantly worsened their EU prepaid service. I also brought
a phone with a T-Mobile SIM card that included low-speed data (provided
to my employer at no cost since in an effort to get us to move all our
lines from Verizon to T-Mobile), but the low-speed data is REALLY low speed!
Some European foreign SIM cards that you can buy from Amazon require
that they be activated in the country they are from, even they work in
all of the EU. The Vodafone UK card didn't require this.
Knowroaming offers pretty good deals on data-only eSIMs, i.e. Italy 5GB
30 Days for $11.50 <https://esim.knowroaming.com/?v=7516fd43adaa>.
One issue with data-only is that you don't get an actual phone number.
While Google Voice works fine, it's sometimes nice to have number in the
country or region where you are. You can rent an incoming number for a
month for as low as $1.98 but as much as $40, see
<https://www.localphone.com/prices/incoming_numbers>.
nospam
Aug 2, 2021, 2:39:40 PM8/2/21
to
In article <se9cdu$uem$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> When you travel internationally, you really want to have a physical SIM
> slot for a foreign SIM, given the high cost of international roaming.
nope. e-sims are significantly more convenient and the future of
cellphones. the new motorola razr is the first to *only* have an e-sim.
> Apple's China marketing team finally convinced Apple to offer dual-SIM
> models for China as part of an effort to boost poor sales.
enough with this bullshit. iphone sales were *not* poor.
<https://www.phonearena.com/news/iPhone-X-Sales-Q4-2017-results_id101524>
Apple iPhone X sales are "stellar" in China and Japan, and it is the
best selling phone in the United Kingdom in November, according
to research firm Kantar Worldpanel.
The big highlight of this story, however, really is China, the
world's biggest phone market, where the iPhone X is performing
incredibly well. While switchers to the iPhone X in other markets
come from upgraders from earlier iPhones, in China the overwhelming
majority of iPhone X buyers come from Android users.
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/04/iphone-x-worlds-best-selling-smartphone/>
But today the iPhone X has an even greater claim to fame: it was the
top-selling smartphone not just in China, but worldwide Š
> But it was
> very late
it wasn't late at all.
> and it's hard to get someone to change from Android to iOS
nope. it's quite easy, which is why more people switch to ios than
switch to android. see first link above.
> once they've been on Android for a while and have a lot of apps,
> especially in China where there are so many apps that are Android-only.
there are also many apps that are ios-only, which is a key reason why
people switch to ios.
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, every ridiculous fee they can think of. At least the MVNOs and the
> carriers' own prepaid services, don't charge this activation fee.
some do.
>
> Yeah, every ridiculous fee they can think of. At least the MVNOs and the
> carriers' own prepaid services, don't charge this activation fee.
> When you travel internationally, you really want to have a physical SIM
> slot for a foreign SIM, given the high cost of international roaming.
cellphones. the new motorola razr is the first to *only* have an e-sim.
> Apple's China marketing team finally convinced Apple to offer dual-SIM
> models for China as part of an effort to boost poor sales.
<https://www.phonearena.com/news/iPhone-X-Sales-Q4-2017-results_id101524>
Apple iPhone X sales are "stellar" in China and Japan, and it is the
best selling phone in the United Kingdom in November, according
to research firm Kantar Worldpanel.
The big highlight of this story, however, really is China, the
world's biggest phone market, where the iPhone X is performing
incredibly well. While switchers to the iPhone X in other markets
come from upgraders from earlier iPhones, in China the overwhelming
majority of iPhone X buyers come from Android users.
<https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/04/iphone-x-worlds-best-selling-smartphone/>
But today the iPhone X has an even greater claim to fame: it was the
top-selling smartphone not just in China, but worldwide Š
> But it was
> very late
> and it's hard to get someone to change from Android to iOS
switch to android. see first link above.
> once they've been on Android for a while and have a lot of apps,
> especially in China where there are so many apps that are Android-only.
people switch to ios.
-hh
Aug 2, 2021, 2:57:58 PM8/2/21
to
Top Post:
All good stuff; thanks. A few editorial comments sprinkled below.
On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 2:10:11 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 10:14 AM, -hh wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> >> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> >>> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> >>> associated costs all together.
> >>
> >> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> >> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> >> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> >> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> >> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
> >
> > Likewise, consider how much the carriers choose to charge their customers
> > who just want to upgrade their hardware (ie, customer DIY's the SIM swap);
> > IIRC, the current Verizon "activation charge" is $35 a throw.
>
> Yeah, every ridiculous fee they can think of. At least the MVNOs and the
> carriers' own prepaid services, don't charge this activation fee.
Plus just because a carrier doesn't choose to inflict a fee today doesn't mean that
they never will: unless it is made illegal, they'll always have that option for revenues.
> > Because that no matter how technologically "easy" it may become to change
> > eSIMs, that's not any sort of assurance that carriers won't tack on a fee.
>
> When you travel internationally, you really want to have a physical SIM
> slot for a foreign SIM, given the high cost of international roaming.
Precisely. I didn't particularly relish getting hit with $1000+ bills on my work
smartphone, but I sure as heck don't want that to happen on my personal line.
> At least you want to buy a data-only SIM and use a VOIP service for text
> and voice. However now there are some global providers that are offering
> good prices on data if you have an eSIM phone (no voice or SMS but you
> can use Google Voice). Also, Verizon MVNO U.S. Mobile includes up to
> 10GB of international roaming data, per line, on their unlimited plan
> (1 line $45, 4 lines for $100), only on eSIM-capable phones, see
> <https://www.usmobile.com/international-roaming-phone-plans>.
>They also sell eSIM data even if you're not a US Mobile customer
Good to know.
> >> I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
> >> traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
> >> roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
> >> the airport.
> >
> > I can recall years ago a bush pilot swapping out SIMs after they landed our
> > flight, because of the differences in costs between carriers. To that end, I'm
> > of the opinion that on an "all other factors ~equal" basis, I'd prefer to have a dual
> > SIM capable smartphone, as a superior alternative to carrying two smartphones.
>
> I recall seeing this on the train in China. My ex-brother-in-law was
> riding with me from Guangzhou to Hong Kong and it was amusing to see
> him, and most of the other Chinese passengers, swapping SIMs as the
> train went into Hong Kong.
The one I noticed was in Tanzania. When I commented on it, the pilot said that
I couldn't have noticed it the first time they had flown me there because there
hadn't been cellular coverage out at that airstrip (Ruaha NP) on the previous trip.
> Apple's China marketing team finally convinced Apple to offer dual-SIM
> models for China as part of an effort to boost poor sales. But it was
> very late and it's hard to get someone to change from Android to iOS
> once they've been on Android for a while and have a lot of apps,
> especially in China where there are so many apps that are Android-only.
>
> > FWIW, as a sidestep around such hassles in the near term, I'm thinking about
> > keeping an older iPhone in serviceable condition and seeing about either a
> > cheap plan which includes international, or going with a local "buy in arriving airport"
> > plan that I'd then aim a Google Phone# forwarder to, so that family can stay in
> > touch at less outrageous international rates than what Verizon asks. Of course,
> > with a dual-SIM smartphone ... /s
>
> Airports are usually the worst place to buy a SIM.
Understood. I tried putting "buy in arriving airport" in quotes to illustrate that
it was just one option. Overall, I prefer to be all prepped before leaving the USA,
but when pretrip planning fails, it then becomes a question of what to do upon
arrival, getting into the trade-off of convenience, timing/schedules and costs.
But an Airport destination SIM is still probably cheaper than paying Verizon! /s
Overall, the question of suitability vs various options comes down to just
what one's use case is going to be; its good to have a layout of what the
various options and their pros/cons are, which is appreciated.
-hh
All good stuff; thanks. A few editorial comments sprinkled below.
On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 2:10:11 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> On 8/2/2021 10:14 AM, -hh wrote:
> > On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:13:53 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
> >> On 8/1/2021 12:25 PM, badgolferman wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> I would think cellular companies would like esims because it would be less
> >>> hardware, easier to program, easier to manage, easier to lock up, and less
> >>> associated costs all together.
> >>
> >> It's essentially coming full-circle from CDMA, which didn't have
> >> physical SIM cards and you just contacted the carrier with the phone's
> >> ESN and they activated the device for you. Back then, people complained
> >> about the difficulty of not being able to simply swap the SIM card into
> >> a new phone, and eSIM brings back that inconvenience.
> >
> > Likewise, consider how much the carriers choose to charge their customers
> > who just want to upgrade their hardware (ie, customer DIY's the SIM swap);
> > IIRC, the current Verizon "activation charge" is $35 a throw.
>
> Yeah, every ridiculous fee they can think of. At least the MVNOs and the
> carriers' own prepaid services, don't charge this activation fee.
they never will: unless it is made illegal, they'll always have that option for revenues.
> > Because that no matter how technologically "easy" it may become to change
> > eSIMs, that's not any sort of assurance that carriers won't tack on a fee.
>
> When you travel internationally, you really want to have a physical SIM
> slot for a foreign SIM, given the high cost of international roaming.
smartphone, but I sure as heck don't want that to happen on my personal line.
> At least you want to buy a data-only SIM and use a VOIP service for text
> and voice. However now there are some global providers that are offering
> good prices on data if you have an eSIM phone (no voice or SMS but you
> can use Google Voice). Also, Verizon MVNO U.S. Mobile includes up to
> 10GB of international roaming data, per line, on their unlimited plan
> (1 line $45, 4 lines for $100), only on eSIM-capable phones, see
> <https://www.usmobile.com/international-roaming-phone-plans>.
>They also sell eSIM data even if you're not a US Mobile customer
> >> I had my Verizon phone for the U.S. and a Motorola GSM phone for
> >> traveling to GSM countries. Korea was a hassle because it was CDMA but
> >> roaming was very costly so it was better to just rent a Korean phone at
> >> the airport.
> >
> > I can recall years ago a bush pilot swapping out SIMs after they landed our
> > flight, because of the differences in costs between carriers. To that end, I'm
> > of the opinion that on an "all other factors ~equal" basis, I'd prefer to have a dual
> > SIM capable smartphone, as a superior alternative to carrying two smartphones.
>
> I recall seeing this on the train in China. My ex-brother-in-law was
> riding with me from Guangzhou to Hong Kong and it was amusing to see
> him, and most of the other Chinese passengers, swapping SIMs as the
> train went into Hong Kong.
I couldn't have noticed it the first time they had flown me there because there
hadn't been cellular coverage out at that airstrip (Ruaha NP) on the previous trip.
> Apple's China marketing team finally convinced Apple to offer dual-SIM
> models for China as part of an effort to boost poor sales. But it was
> very late and it's hard to get someone to change from Android to iOS
> once they've been on Android for a while and have a lot of apps,
> especially in China where there are so many apps that are Android-only.
>
> > FWIW, as a sidestep around such hassles in the near term, I'm thinking about
> > keeping an older iPhone in serviceable condition and seeing about either a
> > cheap plan which includes international, or going with a local "buy in arriving airport"
> > plan that I'd then aim a Google Phone# forwarder to, so that family can stay in
> > touch at less outrageous international rates than what Verizon asks. Of course,
> > with a dual-SIM smartphone ... /s
>
> Airports are usually the worst place to buy a SIM.
it was just one option. Overall, I prefer to be all prepped before leaving the USA,
but when pretrip planning fails, it then becomes a question of what to do upon
arrival, getting into the trade-off of convenience, timing/schedules and costs.
But an Airport destination SIM is still probably cheaper than paying Verizon! /s
what one's use case is going to be; its good to have a layout of what the
various options and their pros/cons are, which is appreciated.
-hh
Zaidy036
Aug 3, 2021, 2:17:18 AM8/3/21
to
swapping SIMs. Problem was neither the US nor Israeli companies ever
offered an eSIM so continued to swap. Then Altice Mobile (now Optonline
Mobile) offered unlimited minutes and data for very good price in US AND
included service in 35 countries a no extra cost. Israel was one of the 35
so no question I changed. It does work as I am in Israel now and without
changing SIM phone operates as an Israeli phone even for special *nnnn
dialing codes.
If you county included in the 35 a good deal and no SIM swap.
--
Zaidy036
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 3:50:36 AM8/3/21
to
In article <sean1c$e9l$1...@dont-email.me>, Zaidy036
<Zaid...@air.isp.spam> wrote:
> I bought an XR because I traveled frequently to Israel and was tired of
> swapping SIMs. Problem was neither the US nor Israeli companies ever
> offered an eSIM so continued to swap.
they do now
> I bought an XR because I traveled frequently to Israel and was tired of
> swapping SIMs. Problem was neither the US nor Israeli companies ever
> offered an eSIM so continued to swap.
sms
Aug 3, 2021, 7:53:25 AM8/3/21
to
On 8/2/2021 11:17 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:
<snip>
> I bought an XR because I traveled frequently to Israel and was tired of
> swapping SIMs. Problem was neither the US nor Israeli companies ever
> offered an eSIM so continued to swap. Then Altice Mobile (now Optonline
> Mobile) offered unlimited minutes and data for very good price in US AND
> included service in 35 countries a no extra cost. Israel was one of the 35
> so no question I changed. It does work as I am in Israel now and without
> changing SIM phone operates as an Israeli phone even for special *nnnn
> dialing codes.
>
> If you county included in the 35 a good deal and no SIM swap.
I looked at their web site and don't see a plan that includes
international roaming.
What I saw at <https://www.optimum.com/mobile/plan> was 20GB of
high-speed data per month for $55 (for non-cable customers) on
T-Mobile's network, with international roaming in Group A (includes
Israel) for $40 per week.
$55 for 20GB of LTE/5G data on T-Mobile is a terrible deal!
I think that you have their original plan that they no longer offer. I
see at
<https://web.archive.org/web/20210121184455/https://www.alticeusa.com/news/articles/press-release/products-services/altice-mobile-new-unlimited-everything-mobile-service-here>
the following:
• unlimited international text and talk from the U.S. to more than 35
countries, including Canada, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Israel, most of
Europe, and more, and
• unlimited data, text and talk while traveling abroad in those same
countries.
It may be that they dropped the plan you have but you're grandfathered in.
I also read that roaming data is throttled to 128Kbps. This is the same
issue that T-Mobile's included international roaming data has. It's okay
for e-mail but for web browsing and navigation functionality it's not
okay. In 2019 I was in two countries, Italy and China, traveling with
people trying to use T-Mobile's low-speed international roaming
data--long story short, I set up a hotspot and let them share my
high-speed data from my prepaid SIM (I also had a phone with a T-Mobile
SIM on both of those trips since T-Mobile had provided my employer with
some SIMs to test their service).
Here's a review of Altice Mobile's original plan:
<https://coveragecritic.com/2019/09/06/altices-unlimited-plan-has-lots-of-limits/>
US Mobile has a good deal for eSIM equipped phones since their unlimited
plans include 10GB of high speed international roaming data per month
(no voice or text international roaming), and they offer service on
Verizon (also on T-Mobile). Downsides are that they charge extra for
hotspot, there's no 5G yet on Verizon, and there is no international
calling from the U.S.
It looks like Altice wanted to offer mobile service much like Comcast
did with Xfinity Mobile and started off with some really good deals and
then decided that those prices were unsustainable.
<snip>
> I bought an XR because I traveled frequently to Israel and was tired of
> swapping SIMs. Problem was neither the US nor Israeli companies ever
> offered an eSIM so continued to swap. Then Altice Mobile (now Optonline
> Mobile) offered unlimited minutes and data for very good price in US AND
> included service in 35 countries a no extra cost. Israel was one of the 35
> so no question I changed. It does work as I am in Israel now and without
> changing SIM phone operates as an Israeli phone even for special *nnnn
> dialing codes.
>
> If you county included in the 35 a good deal and no SIM swap.
international roaming.
What I saw at <https://www.optimum.com/mobile/plan> was 20GB of
high-speed data per month for $55 (for non-cable customers) on
T-Mobile's network, with international roaming in Group A (includes
Israel) for $40 per week.
$55 for 20GB of LTE/5G data on T-Mobile is a terrible deal!
I think that you have their original plan that they no longer offer. I
see at
<https://web.archive.org/web/20210121184455/https://www.alticeusa.com/news/articles/press-release/products-services/altice-mobile-new-unlimited-everything-mobile-service-here>
the following:
• unlimited international text and talk from the U.S. to more than 35
countries, including Canada, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Israel, most of
Europe, and more, and
• unlimited data, text and talk while traveling abroad in those same
countries.
It may be that they dropped the plan you have but you're grandfathered in.
I also read that roaming data is throttled to 128Kbps. This is the same
issue that T-Mobile's included international roaming data has. It's okay
for e-mail but for web browsing and navigation functionality it's not
okay. In 2019 I was in two countries, Italy and China, traveling with
people trying to use T-Mobile's low-speed international roaming
data--long story short, I set up a hotspot and let them share my
high-speed data from my prepaid SIM (I also had a phone with a T-Mobile
SIM on both of those trips since T-Mobile had provided my employer with
some SIMs to test their service).
Here's a review of Altice Mobile's original plan:
<https://coveragecritic.com/2019/09/06/altices-unlimited-plan-has-lots-of-limits/>
US Mobile has a good deal for eSIM equipped phones since their unlimited
plans include 10GB of high speed international roaming data per month
(no voice or text international roaming), and they offer service on
Verizon (also on T-Mobile). Downsides are that they charge extra for
hotspot, there's no 5G yet on Verizon, and there is no international
calling from the U.S.
It looks like Altice wanted to offer mobile service much like Comcast
did with Xfinity Mobile and started off with some really good deals and
then decided that those prices were unsustainable.
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 11:24:05 AM8/3/21
to
On Aug 02, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:020820211211106742%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
(in article<news:020820211211106742%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
> as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 11:25:44 AM8/3/21
to
In article <1anymnx9...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
> > as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
>
> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
no.
> > as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
>
> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 11:48:05 AM8/3/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:030820211125423478%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
Apple's lies to just about everyone cost the company over a billion dollars.
(in article<news:030820211125423478%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>>> as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
>>
>> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
>> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
>
> no.
Yes. Apple publicly lied to just about everyone.
>>
>> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
>> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
>
> no.
Apple's lies to just about everyone cost the company over a billion dollars.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 11:51:55 AM8/3/21
to
In article <1wvuf37j...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
> Apple's lies to just about everyone cost the company over a billion dollars.
are you channeling arlen?
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
> >>> as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
> >>
> >> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> >> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
> >
> > no.
>
> Yes. Apple publicly lied to just about everyone.
they did not
> >>> as a public company, they're legally bound to *not* lie or spin things,
> >>
> >> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> >> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
> >
> > no.
>
> Yes. Apple publicly lied to just about everyone.
> Apple's lies to just about everyone cost the company over a billion dollars.
sms
Aug 3, 2021, 12:23:35 PM8/3/21
to
On 8/3/2021 8:24 AM, RonTheGuy wrote:
<snip>
> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
It was not a billion dollars, it was hundreds of millions of dollars in
separate settlements.
These were not fines for lying, they were fines for throttling older
iPhones and not disclosing it. It was just obfuscation. Many users
bought new phones when their phones slowed down for an unknown reason
when they could have just had the battery replaced.
If the OS had just displayed a message on the phone "Battery Replacement
Needed to Restore Maximum Performance" none of this would have happened,
and probably a lot of the people who bought new phones would have bought
them anyway given the cost of a battery replacement and the trade-in
value of the old phone. That's what they do now, with the message "Your
iPhone battery may need to be serviced."
<snip>
> Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
separate settlements.
These were not fines for lying, they were fines for throttling older
iPhones and not disclosing it. It was just obfuscation. Many users
bought new phones when their phones slowed down for an unknown reason
when they could have just had the battery replaced.
If the OS had just displayed a message on the phone "Battery Replacement
Needed to Restore Maximum Performance" none of this would have happened,
and probably a lot of the people who bought new phones would have bought
them anyway given the cost of a battery replacement and the trade-in
value of the old phone. That's what they do now, with the message "Your
iPhone battery may need to be serviced."
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 12:43:34 PM8/3/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, sms wrote
(in article<news:sebqi6$5a2$1...@dont-email.me>):
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/02/apple-changes-the-timeline-of-disclosure-to-customers-about-slowing-iphones-and-contradicts-tim-cooks-public-statement.html
(in article<news:sebqi6$5a2$1...@dont-email.me>):
> If the OS had just displayed a message on the phone "Battery Replacement
> Needed
Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release notes?
> Needed
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/02/apple-changes-the-timeline-of-disclosure-to-customers-about-slowing-iphones-and-contradicts-tim-cooks-public-statement.html
sms
Aug 3, 2021, 1:36:35 PM8/3/21
to
the timeline when he made his public statement.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 1:44:39 PM8/3/21
to
In article <nbpwnw5oqcq2$.d...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release notes?
nope
> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release notes?
Joerg Lorenz
Aug 3, 2021, 2:00:39 PM8/3/21
to
Am 03.08.21 um 17:24 schrieb RonTheGuy:
> Ron, the most stupid guy in town.
Not that I know.
Not that I know.
Joerg Lorenz
Aug 3, 2021, 2:02:01 PM8/3/21
to
Am 03.08.21 um 17:48 schrieb RonTheGuy:
I hope these unfounded unproven claims cost you billions.
> Ron, the most braindead guy in town.
> Ron, the most braindead guy in town.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 4:14:23 PM8/3/21
to
In article <imtk6d...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
>
> The whole Throttle Gate / Battery Gate "issue" is a sensational line of
> nonsense from people who donıt have a good understanding of the
> engineering challenges involved, nor how the solutions to those
> challenges are actually implemented.
all of the 'gate' issues are.
> The facts:
>
> * Apple introduced the CPU throttling feature in iOS 10.2.1 and stated
> in the release notes that the release "improves power management
> during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns". Read that to
> yourself slowly if needed. Any reasonable person who is even just
> superficially knowledgeable about electronics can easily infer from
> that statement that "power management" can at times mean reducing
> power consumption, which naturally means reducing performance.
except that that nobody reads release notes.
most people had no idea anything changed.
in hindsight, apple should have displayed an alert after the first
unexpected sudden shutdown, which explained that the battery is aging
and that to prevent further sudden shutdowns, peak performance might be
clipped, and to contact apple for further information.
> * The feature works by detecting a malfunctioning battery that cannot
the battery isn't malfunctioning.
the battery is aging, what *all* batteries do, whether they're in
phones, cameras, cars or whatever else. as they age, their internal
resistance increases and their ability to source current for high loads
is reduced.
a battery that can't sustain high loads anymore (e.g., camera flash)
usually still works quite well in a low demand device (e.g., radio).
> supply enough current to the device, and reacting by automatically
> applying what can be described as a sort of low pass filter to prevent
> spikes in resource usage (performance), which in turn prevents the
> device from spontaneously shutting down, extending runtime. Nobody
> wants a phone that spontaneously shuts down at a critical moment, like
> during a 911 emergency call, just because the battery is old and canıt
> sustain the load anymore. That's a marked improvement, as anyone who
> has ever had their phone spontaneously shut down on them can attest.
yep. sudden shutdowns are *not* fun. btdt.
> * The feature does not have any effect on devices with well-functioning
> batteries. In fact the feature doesn't apply the throttle until after
> the device first experiences a spontaneous shutdown.
it's not a throttle. it clips peaks. anything below that is unaffected.
the alternative is sudden shutdowns which are a *lot* more annoying
than clipping peaks.
> * Even on devices with failing batteries, the feature does not affect
> most users most of the time because most smartphone apps don't cause
> CPU/GPU usage to spike significantly on a regular basis. Certain apps
> do, like games and so on. But you're not going to see a huge spike in
> resource usage from a lot of the apps people use the most, like the
> Contacts, Messages, or Safari apps, for instance.
yep. most stuff that people do is not going to push the hardware to the
limit to where it matters.
app launch times might be slightly longer, but even that isn't always
going to be noticeable. one app i use takes 10-15 seconds to launch
(estimated), so an extra second or two won't make a difference.
> Appleıs intent with this feature is clearly to prolong runtime of
> devices with dying batteries. And the very idea that screwing people
> over will convince them to buy more stuff from you rather than running
> to your competition instead is frankly ludicrous and smacks of
> anti-intellectual foolishness. But some people donıt understand the
> facts or have an irrational hatred of Apple, and only see a grand
> conspiracy by Apple to somehow fuck over millions of their customers,
> which is patently false.
their goal was to stop sudden unexpected shutdowns, which are highly
annoying and disruptive, as well as prolong the useful life of the
device, the very opposite of what people claim it does.
intentionally gimping a device to force someone to upgrade is crazy. it
will cause someone to buy a competing product.
> Apple settling these lawsuits is nothing more than a quick and
> relatively painless end to a bullshit farce. And Iım sure thatıs how
> Apple views it as well - if you think 113 million dollars is anything
> but a virtual shrug from Apple, a two-trillion-dollar company, youıre
> naive. Itıs less costly to Apple to pay these ridiculous people off than
> to bother going to court, so they settled instead, and in doing so
> admitted no wrongdoing. And rightly so.
it's a big chunk of money, but settling is often cheaper than going to
trial with unexpected results.
> You should also know that other smartphone designers do things like this
> to conserve power when needed - and many actually do a much worse job
> than Apple:
all batteries age, but android device makers don't push the hardware to
its limits or they ignore problems if they do.
> * Samsung fined millions for slowing down phones through updates
>
> <https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/samsung-fined-millions-for-slowing-down-
> phones-through-updates-102518.html>
>
> * Did LG just system throttle the LG g8 with the last security patch? I
> was getting 60fps performance on dolphin, and then it throttled to
> 40-30fps. My geek bench scores also tanked after that security update.
> They don't throttle phones my ass
>
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/lgg8/comments/d6sd4v/did_lg_just_system_throttle_the
> _lg_g8_with_the/>
>
> * In-depth with the Snapdragon 810ıs heat problems
>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/in-depth-with-the-snapdragon-810s-hea
> t-problems/>
>
> * Thermal Throttling Which SOCıs are the Worst Offenders?
>
> <https://www.mobiledroid.co.uk/blog/thermal-throttling-which-socs-are-worst/>
>
> * How to control cpu throttling on android
>
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11883404/how-to-control-cpu-throttling-on-
> android>
>
> And this is the kind of thing that happens when they donıt:
>
> * Cryptocurrency mining malware "Loapi" capable of physically damaging phones
> <http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/12/20/cryptocurrency-mining-malware-loapi-capable-physically-damaging-phones/>
somehow that neglects to be mentioned.
<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> > Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> > legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
>
> Nope, Ronnie, that's a blatant lie.
> >
> > Didn't Apple recently pay over a billion dollars in government fines and
> > legal reparations for publicly lying to just about everyone?
>
>
> The whole Throttle Gate / Battery Gate "issue" is a sensational line of
> nonsense from people who donıt have a good understanding of the
> engineering challenges involved, nor how the solutions to those
> challenges are actually implemented.
all of the 'gate' issues are.
> The facts:
>
> * Apple introduced the CPU throttling feature in iOS 10.2.1 and stated
> in the release notes that the release "improves power management
> during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns". Read that to
> yourself slowly if needed. Any reasonable person who is even just
> superficially knowledgeable about electronics can easily infer from
> that statement that "power management" can at times mean reducing
> power consumption, which naturally means reducing performance.
except that that nobody reads release notes.
most people had no idea anything changed.
in hindsight, apple should have displayed an alert after the first
unexpected sudden shutdown, which explained that the battery is aging
and that to prevent further sudden shutdowns, peak performance might be
clipped, and to contact apple for further information.
> * The feature works by detecting a malfunctioning battery that cannot
the battery isn't malfunctioning.
the battery is aging, what *all* batteries do, whether they're in
phones, cameras, cars or whatever else. as they age, their internal
resistance increases and their ability to source current for high loads
is reduced.
a battery that can't sustain high loads anymore (e.g., camera flash)
usually still works quite well in a low demand device (e.g., radio).
> supply enough current to the device, and reacting by automatically
> applying what can be described as a sort of low pass filter to prevent
> spikes in resource usage (performance), which in turn prevents the
> device from spontaneously shutting down, extending runtime. Nobody
> wants a phone that spontaneously shuts down at a critical moment, like
> during a 911 emergency call, just because the battery is old and canıt
> sustain the load anymore. That's a marked improvement, as anyone who
> has ever had their phone spontaneously shut down on them can attest.
yep. sudden shutdowns are *not* fun. btdt.
> * The feature does not have any effect on devices with well-functioning
> batteries. In fact the feature doesn't apply the throttle until after
> the device first experiences a spontaneous shutdown.
it's not a throttle. it clips peaks. anything below that is unaffected.
the alternative is sudden shutdowns which are a *lot* more annoying
than clipping peaks.
> * Even on devices with failing batteries, the feature does not affect
> most users most of the time because most smartphone apps don't cause
> CPU/GPU usage to spike significantly on a regular basis. Certain apps
> do, like games and so on. But you're not going to see a huge spike in
> resource usage from a lot of the apps people use the most, like the
> Contacts, Messages, or Safari apps, for instance.
yep. most stuff that people do is not going to push the hardware to the
limit to where it matters.
app launch times might be slightly longer, but even that isn't always
going to be noticeable. one app i use takes 10-15 seconds to launch
(estimated), so an extra second or two won't make a difference.
> Appleıs intent with this feature is clearly to prolong runtime of
> devices with dying batteries. And the very idea that screwing people
> over will convince them to buy more stuff from you rather than running
> to your competition instead is frankly ludicrous and smacks of
> anti-intellectual foolishness. But some people donıt understand the
> facts or have an irrational hatred of Apple, and only see a grand
> conspiracy by Apple to somehow fuck over millions of their customers,
> which is patently false.
their goal was to stop sudden unexpected shutdowns, which are highly
annoying and disruptive, as well as prolong the useful life of the
device, the very opposite of what people claim it does.
intentionally gimping a device to force someone to upgrade is crazy. it
will cause someone to buy a competing product.
> Apple settling these lawsuits is nothing more than a quick and
> relatively painless end to a bullshit farce. And Iım sure thatıs how
> Apple views it as well - if you think 113 million dollars is anything
> but a virtual shrug from Apple, a two-trillion-dollar company, youıre
> naive. Itıs less costly to Apple to pay these ridiculous people off than
> to bother going to court, so they settled instead, and in doing so
> admitted no wrongdoing. And rightly so.
it's a big chunk of money, but settling is often cheaper than going to
trial with unexpected results.
> You should also know that other smartphone designers do things like this
> to conserve power when needed - and many actually do a much worse job
> than Apple:
all batteries age, but android device makers don't push the hardware to
its limits or they ignore problems if they do.
> * Samsung fined millions for slowing down phones through updates
>
> <https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/samsung-fined-millions-for-slowing-down-
> phones-through-updates-102518.html>
>
> * Did LG just system throttle the LG g8 with the last security patch? I
> was getting 60fps performance on dolphin, and then it throttled to
> 40-30fps. My geek bench scores also tanked after that security update.
> They don't throttle phones my ass
>
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/lgg8/comments/d6sd4v/did_lg_just_system_throttle_the
> _lg_g8_with_the/>
>
> * In-depth with the Snapdragon 810ıs heat problems
>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/in-depth-with-the-snapdragon-810s-hea
> t-problems/>
>
> * Thermal Throttling Which SOCıs are the Worst Offenders?
>
> <https://www.mobiledroid.co.uk/blog/thermal-throttling-which-socs-are-worst/>
>
> * How to control cpu throttling on android
>
> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11883404/how-to-control-cpu-throttling-on-
> android>
>
> And this is the kind of thing that happens when they donıt:
>
> * Cryptocurrency mining malware "Loapi" capable of physically damaging phones
> <http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/12/20/cryptocurrency-mining-malware-loapi-capable-physically-damaging-phones/>
somehow that neglects to be mentioned.
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 5:48:04 PM8/3/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, sms wrote
(in article<news:sebur1$4jr$1...@dont-email.me>):
> Tim Cook probably doesn't deal with release notes and wasn't aware of
> the timeline when he made his public statement.
He was absolutely aware as he ordered the changes in the release notes.
> the timeline when he made his public statement.
Cook lies when it's something important he is trying to hide from everyone.
"Apple failed Consumer Protection Law 101 - don't deceive your customers"
https://portal.ct.gov/AG/Press-Releases/2020-Press-Releases/AG-Tong-Announces-Settlement-with-Apple-over-iPhone-Throttling
The cost of Apple publicly lying to just about everyone is over a billion.
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 5:55:24 PM8/3/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:030820211344373571%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release notes?
>
> nope
yep
https://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300098256/apple-ceos-iphone-throttling-response-unacceptable.htm
(in article<news:030820211344373571%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release notes?
>
> nope
https://www.crn.com/news/mobility/300098256/apple-ceos-iphone-throttling-response-unacceptable.htm
RonTheGuy
Aug 3, 2021, 6:05:48 PM8/3/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, nospam wrote
(in article<news:030820211614212575%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
That was part of the $113 million dollar settlement to the USA AG lawsuit.
"iOS 10.2.1 was the very first iOS release with CPU throttling targeting
older iPhones with worn-out batteries. The original releases notes,
displayed on customers' devices and published on Apple's website, made no
mention of this whatsoever."
https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/02/06/apple-on-ios-10-2-1-throttling-disclosure/
Apple lied to just about everyone which cost Apple over a billion dollars.
(in article<news:030820211614212575%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
> most people had no idea anything changed.
Tim Cook publicly lied when he said customers didn't read the release notes.
That was part of the $113 million dollar settlement to the USA AG lawsuit.
"iOS 10.2.1 was the very first iOS release with CPU throttling targeting
older iPhones with worn-out batteries. The original releases notes,
displayed on customers' devices and published on Apple's website, made no
mention of this whatsoever."
https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/02/06/apple-on-ios-10-2-1-throttling-disclosure/
Apple lied to just about everyone which cost Apple over a billion dollars.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 6:28:16 PM8/3/21
to
In article <smphkgo3...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
> Cook lies when it's something important he is trying to hide from everyone.
nope.
> "Apple failed Consumer Protection Law 101 - don't deceive your customers"
apple did not deceive anyone.
a few people who had zero understanding of what they were looking at
made a big deal out of something that actually *helped* the user.
this isn't limited to just apple either. people *love* conspiracy
theories for some reason.
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
> He was absolutely aware as he ordered the changes in the release notes.
he is not responsible for the release notes.
> He was absolutely aware as he ordered the changes in the release notes.
> Cook lies when it's something important he is trying to hide from everyone.
> "Apple failed Consumer Protection Law 101 - don't deceive your customers"
a few people who had zero understanding of what they were looking at
made a big deal out of something that actually *helped* the user.
this isn't limited to just apple either. people *love* conspiracy
theories for some reason.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 6:28:18 PM8/3/21
to
In article <1vlcuiwk...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
believe propaganda sites.
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
> >> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release
> >> notes?
> >
> > nope
>
> yep
nope. see various other posts for what *actually* happened rather than
> >> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release
> >> notes?
> >
> > nope
>
> yep
believe propaganda sites.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 6:28:20 PM8/3/21
to
In article <imtooh...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> better, since it increased runtime of devices with dying batteries and
> prevented unexpected shutdowns.
the change was for the better, but inevitably, there are those who do
not understand what is going on and immediately think it's an evil
plot.
> > in hindsight, apple should have displayed an alert after the first
> > unexpected sudden shutdown
>
> That's what they do now. Ż\_(?)_/Ż
yea. they should have done it at the start. then the idiots would have
realized what the benchmarks they were looking at actually meant rather
than assume and get it wrong.
> >> * The feature works by detecting a malfunctioning battery that cannot
> >
> > the battery isn't malfunctioning.
>
> Semantics. A dying battery that can no longer provide consistent power
> output can be said to be malfunctioning.
it's not semantics. a malfunctioning battery doesn't work at all. it's
basically dead. an aging battery works perfectly fine except under
heavy loads, or may not last as long. this can be measured.
>
> > the battery is aging, what *all* batteries do, whether they're in
> > phones, cameras, cars or whatever else
>
> I know that. You know that. Even the juvenile trolls in these news
> groups know that - they just won't acknowledge it.
yep.
<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> * Apple introduced the CPU throttling feature in iOS 10.2.1 and
> >> stated in the release notes that the release "improves power
> >> management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns". Read
> >> that to yourself slowly if needed. Any reasonable person who is even
> >> just superficially knowledgeable about electronics can easily infer
> >> from that statement that "power management" can at times mean
> >> reducing power consumption, which naturally means reducing
> >> performance.
> >
> > except that that nobody reads release notes.
> >
> > most people had no idea anything changed.
>
> I don't see that as a problem, considering the change was for the
> >> * Apple introduced the CPU throttling feature in iOS 10.2.1 and
> >> stated in the release notes that the release "improves power
> >> management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns". Read
> >> that to yourself slowly if needed. Any reasonable person who is even
> >> just superficially knowledgeable about electronics can easily infer
> >> from that statement that "power management" can at times mean
> >> reducing power consumption, which naturally means reducing
> >> performance.
> >
> > except that that nobody reads release notes.
> >
> > most people had no idea anything changed.
>
> better, since it increased runtime of devices with dying batteries and
> prevented unexpected shutdowns.
the change was for the better, but inevitably, there are those who do
not understand what is going on and immediately think it's an evil
plot.
> > in hindsight, apple should have displayed an alert after the first
> > unexpected sudden shutdown
>
yea. they should have done it at the start. then the idiots would have
realized what the benchmarks they were looking at actually meant rather
than assume and get it wrong.
> >> * The feature works by detecting a malfunctioning battery that cannot
> >
> > the battery isn't malfunctioning.
>
> output can be said to be malfunctioning.
it's not semantics. a malfunctioning battery doesn't work at all. it's
basically dead. an aging battery works perfectly fine except under
heavy loads, or may not last as long. this can be measured.
>
> > the battery is aging, what *all* batteries do, whether they're in
> > phones, cameras, cars or whatever else
>
> groups know that - they just won't acknowledge it.
yep.
nospam
Aug 3, 2021, 6:28:21 PM8/3/21
to
In article <suwdwz6x...@news.solani.org>, RonTheGuy
> That was part of the $113 million dollar settlement to the USA AG lawsuit.
it's a settlement, not a loss. they could have gone to trial, except it
would have cost more. it's a flaw in the legal system but that's an
entirely different discussion.
> "iOS 10.2.1 was the very first iOS release with CPU throttling targeting
it's not throttling. what it does is clip peak demands. anything below
the peak is *unaffected*.
> older iPhones with worn-out batteries. The original releases notes,
> displayed on customers' devices and published on Apple's website, made no
> mention of this whatsoever."
technically true, but irrelevant and moot.
not a single person noticed any difference until nearly a year later,
long after the release notes had been updated/
<r...@null.invalid> wrote:
>
> Tim Cook publicly lied when he said customers didn't read the release notes.
that's not a lie. very, very few people read the release notes.
>
> Tim Cook publicly lied when he said customers didn't read the release notes.
> That was part of the $113 million dollar settlement to the USA AG lawsuit.
would have cost more. it's a flaw in the legal system but that's an
entirely different discussion.
> "iOS 10.2.1 was the very first iOS release with CPU throttling targeting
the peak is *unaffected*.
> older iPhones with worn-out batteries. The original releases notes,
> displayed on customers' devices and published on Apple's website, made no
> mention of this whatsoever."
not a single person noticed any difference until nearly a year later,
long after the release notes had been updated/
Zaidy036
Aug 4, 2021, 1:10:56 AM8/4/21
to
which comes to $20.60 per month per line (I have 3 of 5 they offered) all
taxes included. I did not realize they made such drastic changes since
initial offer.
--
Zaidy036
RonTheGuy
Aug 4, 2021, 9:50:32 AM8/4/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, nospam wrote(in article<news:030820211828154600%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>> He was absolutely aware as he ordered the changes in the release notes.
>
> he is not responsible for the release notes.
Tim Cook publicly lied to just about everyone when he said people didn't
>> He was absolutely aware as he ordered the changes in the release notes.
>
> he is not responsible for the release notes.
read what wasn't there to be read until long after Tim Cook said it was.
>> Cook lies when it's something important he is trying to hide from everyone.
>
> nope.
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/02/apple-changes-the-timeline-of-disclosure-to-customers-about-slowing-iphones-and-contradicts-tim-cooks-public-statement.html
Apple publicly lied about why they are who benefited from throttling.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/07/apple-fined-27-million-for-throttling-old-iphones-without-telling-users/
Apple paid over a billion dollars for publicly lying to just about everyone.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-iphones-settlement/apple-to-pay-up-to-500-million-to-settle-u-s-lawsuit-over-slow-iphones-idUSKBN20P2E7
>> "Apple failed Consumer Protection Law 101 - don't deceive your customers"
>
> apple did not deceive anyone.
https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/3/2/21161524/apple-iphone-500-million-settlement-throttling-class-action-lawsuit
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/18/apple-fine-battery/
> a few people who had zero understanding of what they were looking at
> made a big deal out of something that actually *helped* the user.
exist and that is only a small port of what Tim Cook publicly lied about.
https://www.scribd.com/document/370912016/1-Apple-s-Response-to-Senator-Thune#from_embed
> this isn't limited to just apple either. people *love* conspiracy
> theories for some reason.
https://medium.com/hyperlinked/all-the-times-tim-cook-lied-in-front-of-congress-30e7cd053ae2
RonTheGuy
Aug 4, 2021, 9:55:48 AM8/4/21
to
On Aug 03, 2021, nospam wrote (in article<news:030820211828164681%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
>>>> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release
>>>> notes?
>>>
>>> nope
>>
>> yep
>
> nope. see various other posts for what *actually* happened rather than
> believe propaganda sites.
yep
>>>> Didn't Tim Cook publicly lie to everyone about the back dated release
>>>> notes?
>>>
>>> nope
>>
>> yep
>
> nope. see various other posts for what *actually* happened rather than
> believe propaganda sites.
Tim Cook (and Apple) lied to just about everyone, including the US Congress.
https://mspoweruser.com/tim-cook-lied-to-the-us-congress/
https://medium.com/hyperlinked/all-the-times-tim-cook-lied-in-front-of-congress-30e7cd053ae2
https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/02/apple-changes-the-timeline-of-disclosure-to-customers-about-slowing-iphones-and-contradicts-tim-cooks-public-statement.html
nospam
Aug 4, 2021, 11:12:11 AM8/4/21
to
In article <imu1ug...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
> Nah. There are various ways something can malfunction, and this is one
> of them.
malfunction means it doesn't work. the battery *does* work, just not as
fully as it did when new.
> Nah. There are various ways something can malfunction, and this is one
> of them.
malfunction means it doesn't work. the battery *does* work, just not as
fully as it did when new.
knuttle
Aug 5, 2021, 9:35:45 AM8/5/21
to
On 8/4/2021 3:04 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Nope. Malfunction means it doesn't work *normally* or *satisfactorily*.
> It does not indicate it doesn't work at all.
The smaller the iPhone battery the more likely you'll buy accessories.
And the more often you must charge your soon to be dead iPhone battery.
And the sooner an aging iPhone battery degrades below minimum capacity.
Don't even think about using that iPhone battery in cold weather conditions.
Apple's profit making stratagem revolves around its batteries degrading.
Typical in even cheap Android phones are 4000, 5000 & 6000mAH batteries.
6000 mAH Asus ROG Phone II
6000 mAH Motorola Moto G10 Power
5300 mAH Xiaomi Mi Max 2
5000 mAH BLU Studio Energy
5000 mAH Motorola Moto E5 Plus
5000 mAH Motorola Moto G7 Power
4100 mAh LG X Power
4100 mAH Xiaomi Redmi 3S
4000 mAH Motorola Moto G8 Plus
4000 mAH Huawei Mate 20
For comparison - what's the battery capacity of your expensive iPhone?
> Nope. Malfunction means it doesn't work *normally* or *satisfactorily*.
> It does not indicate it doesn't work at all.
The smaller the iPhone battery the more likely you'll buy accessories.
And the more often you must charge your soon to be dead iPhone battery.
And the sooner an aging iPhone battery degrades below minimum capacity.
Don't even think about using that iPhone battery in cold weather conditions.
Apple's profit making stratagem revolves around its batteries degrading.
Typical in even cheap Android phones are 4000, 5000 & 6000mAH batteries.
6000 mAH Asus ROG Phone II
6000 mAH Motorola Moto G10 Power
5300 mAH Xiaomi Mi Max 2
5000 mAH BLU Studio Energy
5000 mAH Motorola Moto E5 Plus
5000 mAH Motorola Moto G7 Power
4100 mAh LG X Power
4100 mAH Xiaomi Redmi 3S
4000 mAH Motorola Moto G8 Plus
4000 mAH Huawei Mate 20
For comparison - what's the battery capacity of your expensive iPhone?
nospam
Aug 5, 2021, 9:51:33 AM8/5/21
to
In article <segpfe$ko4$1...@dont-email.me>, knuttle
droid-gaming-phone-specs-features-price>
Both of those points make it very hard for me to convince anyone to
buy the Asus ROG Phone II, an $899 gaming-focused phone that has its
own ecosystem of pricey proprietary accessories. The accessories were
made for the phone, and the phone was made for these accessories, for
better and worse.
pricey proprietary accessories. so much for android being about
'freedom'.
and all that for just $1500. but here's the kicker. it's a $1500 phone
that *can't* *make* *calls*, which is rather hilarious, but not in a
good way.
<https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Gaming-Phone-ZS660KL-S855P-12G512G-BK/d
p/B07XPH822S>
It's mostly compatible with AT&T and T-Mobile. Because it's not
CDMA compatible, it won't work on Verizon (it can connect to
Verizon's 4G network for data only) or Sprint. To add insult to
injury, the phone is NOT VoLTE verified in the U.S. and Asus has
indicated they are not considering adding it (though the China
Tencent version does have it for China, it's not usable here). As the
3G networks are taken off line in the next couple of years, this
phone will cease to be able to make any traditional calls in the U.S.
Period. Even 911 calls would not be possible according to an AT&T
rep I chatted with. The only option would be to transition to a
service like Google Voice to make calls using the 4G data only
network, which would also be a workaround for Verizon. But you still
wouldn't have 911 service after the 3G shutdowns. This is a huge
letdown on the part of Asus.
<keith_...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Typical in even cheap Android phones are 4000, 5000 & 6000mAH batteries.
> 6000 mAH Asus ROG Phone II
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/4/20896952/asus-rog-phone-ii-review-an
> Typical in even cheap Android phones are 4000, 5000 & 6000mAH batteries.
> 6000 mAH Asus ROG Phone II
droid-gaming-phone-specs-features-price>
Both of those points make it very hard for me to convince anyone to
buy the Asus ROG Phone II, an $899 gaming-focused phone that has its
own ecosystem of pricey proprietary accessories. The accessories were
made for the phone, and the phone was made for these accessories, for
better and worse.
pricey proprietary accessories. so much for android being about
'freedom'.
and all that for just $1500. but here's the kicker. it's a $1500 phone
that *can't* *make* *calls*, which is rather hilarious, but not in a
good way.
<https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ROG-Gaming-Phone-ZS660KL-S855P-12G512G-BK/d
p/B07XPH822S>
It's mostly compatible with AT&T and T-Mobile. Because it's not
CDMA compatible, it won't work on Verizon (it can connect to
Verizon's 4G network for data only) or Sprint. To add insult to
injury, the phone is NOT VoLTE verified in the U.S. and Asus has
indicated they are not considering adding it (though the China
Tencent version does have it for China, it's not usable here). As the
3G networks are taken off line in the next couple of years, this
phone will cease to be able to make any traditional calls in the U.S.
Period. Even 911 calls would not be possible according to an AT&T
rep I chatted with. The only option would be to transition to a
service like Google Voice to make calls using the 4G data only
network, which would also be a workaround for Verizon. But you still
wouldn't have 911 service after the 3G shutdowns. This is a huge
letdown on the part of Asus.
knuttle
Aug 5, 2021, 10:02:24 AM8/5/21
to
On 8/5/2021 9:51 AM, nospam wrote:
> Both of those points make it very hard for me to convince anyone to
> buy the Asus ROG Phone II, an $899 gaming-focused phone
Are you going to disparage all the Android phones with big batteries?
> Both of those points make it very hard for me to convince anyone to
> buy the Asus ROG Phone II, an $899 gaming-focused phone
Apple's profit making stratagem revolves around its batteries degrading.
The smaller the iPhone battery the more likely you'll buy accessories.
And the more often you must charge your soon to be dead iPhone battery.
And the sooner an aging iPhone battery degrades below minimum capacity.
Don't even think about using that iPhone battery in cold weather conditions.
Now typical in many Android phones are 4000, 5000 & 6000mAH batteries.
The smaller the iPhone battery the more likely you'll buy accessories.
And the more often you must charge your soon to be dead iPhone battery.
And the sooner an aging iPhone battery degrades below minimum capacity.
Don't even think about using that iPhone battery in cold weather conditions.
Asus ROG Phone II (6000 mAH)
Asus ZenFone 7 Pro (5000 mAH)
BLU Studio Energy (5000 mAH)
Doogee S88 Pro (10000 mAH)
Google Pixel 5 (4080 mAH)
Huawei Mate 20 (4000 mAH)
LG X Power (4100 mAH)
Motorola Moto E5 Plus (5000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G Power
Motorola Moto G10 Power (6000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G7 Power (5000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G8 Plus (4000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G8 Power (5000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G8 Power Lite (5000 mAH)
Motorola Moto G9 Power (6000 mAH)
Motorola Moto Z Play Droid (3510 mAH)
MOQI I7S (6000 mAH)
Nubia RedMagic 6 (5050 mAH)
Poco X3 Pro (5160 mAH)
Redme Note 10 Pro (5020 mAH)
Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra (5000 mAH)
Samsung Galaxy S20 FE (4500 mAH)
Samsung M20 (5000 mAH)
Samsung M30 (5000 mAH)
ULTIMATE U710S (6000 mAH)
UMIDIGI Power 3 (6150 mAH)
Xiaomi Mi Max (5300 mAH)
Xiaomi Mi 11 Ultra (5000 mAH)
Xiaomi Redmi 3S (4100 mAH)
(That's only a short list.)
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