Porting from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 (A1549) T-Mobile

[Aardvarks]

What should a kid do when switching from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6?

One of my grandkids wants an iPhone to replace her Nexus 5 where a good
friend is willing to give us for free a slightly cracked iPhone 6 model
A1549.

That's all we know about the iPhone at the moment, but, I'm just wondering
what the gotchas will be in the transformation.

She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
5 and set it up for her).

However, while I jailbroke an iPhone 3 years ago for the sister of this
child, I know next to nothing about current or almost current iPhones.

I'm not asking about learning curves, as kids can adapt almost
instantaneously from Android to iOS; but just about the technical hardware
things to consider.

For example, I told her to buy a "real" Apple lightning cable, for about 20
bucks for a three-foot length. Normally that's not the route I'd suggest
but Apple sometimes cares what the cable is (which I know from using
iPads), so, she may as well avoid Apple-introduced problems at this early
stage of things.

I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).

Googling for the specs, it seems the iPhone uses a nano SIM card while the
Nexus 5 uses a micro SIM card, so I called T-Mobile who said they'd ship
her one for $15 when we're ready to make the switch.

I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
file and email it to herself, which has been done.

She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
going to be a problem.

The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).

I'm not sure what carrier was used for the previous phone as the SIM card
slot is apparently empty, so it could be T-Mobile or AT&T as far as I know,
so I'm not sure if all the frequencies are compatible nowadays.

I think she will be forced to set up an iCloud account when she inserts her
SIM card into the iPhone, so, I told her to use her normal email address
for her iCloud account as that will make her communication life easier.
(Using a real email on a phone is not something "I" would do, but I would
recommend she "follow the rules" because she just wants it to work.)

Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
need, so, that isn't a problem.

I'm just wondering if there are any technical gotchas we should be on the
lookout for *before* the switcheroo (particularly frequency issues)?

[Aardvarks]

Googling, I found this Apple article on porting from Android to iOS:
= Move from Android to iPhone
= https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196

Apparently the first thing you do in that procedure is download from Google
Play the "Move to iOS" app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.movetoios&hl=en

Is that procedure snake oil or does it actually do useful things?

Digging deeper, I found this Android-to-iOS FAQ:
= http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/from-android-to-ios-10-most-asked-questions/
Which covers:
How to sync Mail, Contacts and Calendars
How to transfer existing photos to iPhone
How to share photos/ files with Android users
How to backup and restore data
How to sync browser bookmarks
How to find missing iPhone / iPad
How to customize ringtones
Battery Life – What You need To Know
Cables & Connectivity
Troubleshooting & More

Googling for Nexus to iOS, I found this Nexus 5 to iPhone 6 saga:
= I left Android for iOS… and instantly regretted it
=
https://medium.com/@ernopp/i-left-android-for-ios-and-instantly-regretted-it-dc2fd347ad46#.axfs4mqu4

Most of that user's problems were software related, which isn't what I'm
worried about here.

All I want to know is what we need to think about ahead of time to
successfully port a kid from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6.

Thanks!

[nospam]

In article <nlq4ud$1isj$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> What should a kid do when switching from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6?

celebrate.

> One of my grandkids wants an iPhone to replace her Nexus 5 where a good
> friend is willing to give us for free a slightly cracked iPhone 6 model
> A1549.
>
> That's all we know about the iPhone at the moment, but, I'm just wondering
> what the gotchas will be in the transformation.

it'd help if you knew more about it, such as with which carrier it was
originally sold.

> She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
> 5 and set it up for her).

mistake #1

> However, while I jailbroke an iPhone 3 years ago for the sister of this
> child, I know next to nothing about current or almost current iPhones.
>
> I'm not asking about learning curves, as kids can adapt almost
> instantaneously from Android to iOS; but just about the technical hardware
> things to consider.
>
> For example, I told her to buy a "real" Apple lightning cable, for about 20
> bucks for a three-foot length. Normally that's not the route I'd suggest
> but Apple sometimes cares what the cable is (which I know from using
> iPads), so, she may as well avoid Apple-introduced problems at this early
> stage of things.

a 'real' apple cable is not required. numerous third parties make mfi
certified cables, which can be had for under $10.

non-certified cables should be avoided, as they can sometimes cause
problems (not always but she doesn't need to deal with it when it
does).

> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).

if it's usb charging spec compliant it will. some are and some are't.

> Googling for the specs, it seems the iPhone uses a nano SIM card while the
> Nexus 5 uses a micro SIM card, so I called T-Mobile who said they'd ship
> her one for $15 when we're ready to make the switch.

go to a t-mobile store and they'll probably swap it for free.

or, cut it down to size. nano sims are slightly thinner but that
doesn't matter in an iphone (it does in some other phones).

> I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
> had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
> file and email it to herself, which has been done.
>
> She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
> going to be a problem.

as usual, you're doing it the hard way.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196>

> The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
> probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).

don't worry about it unless it affects day to day use.

> I'm not sure what carrier was used for the previous phone as the SIM card
> slot is apparently empty, so it could be T-Mobile or AT&T as far as I know,
> so I'm not sure if all the frequencies are compatible nowadays.

that's a very important detail to find out.

> I think she will be forced to set up an iCloud account when she inserts her
> SIM card into the iPhone, so, I told her to use her normal email address
> for her iCloud account as that will make her communication life easier.
> (Using a real email on a phone is not something "I" would do, but I would
> recommend she "follow the rules" because she just wants it to work.)

it does't matter.

> Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
> need, so, that isn't a problem.

no you don't.

> I'm just wondering if there are any technical gotchas we should be on the
> lookout for *before* the switcheroo (particularly frequency issues)?

the only gotchas are the ones you'll manufacture because you do things
the most convoluted way possible.

[nospam]

In article <nlq617$1jv7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> Googling, I found this Apple article on porting from Android to iOS:
> = Move from Android to iPhone
> = https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196
>
> Apparently the first thing you do in that procedure is download from Google
> Play the "Move to iOS" app:
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.movetoios&hl=en
>
> Is that procedure snake oil or does it actually do useful things?

extremely useful.

[Your Name]

In article <nlq4ud$1isj$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:
>

<snip>

>
> For example, I told her to buy a "real" Apple lightning cable, for about 20
> bucks for a three-foot length. Normally that's not the route I'd suggest
> but Apple sometimes cares what the cable is (which I know from using
> iPads), so, she may as well avoid Apple-introduced problems at this early
> stage of things.

<snip>

It's not an Apple problem, but a problem with the crappy cheap cables
themselves (usually from no-name companies in Asia who couldn't care
less and simply want to cash-in). Some cheap third party chargers /
charger cables are such almighty crap that they are actually
dangerous!!

Any good quality brand cable should be fine.

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:42:29 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Is that procedure snake oil or does it actually do useful things?
>
> extremely useful.

We don't know the iOS yet of the phone as it hasn't been charged in a while
so it's currently dead, and she doesn't have a cable so she will pick one
up tomorrow.

Seems that the iOS must be 9 or better, but that shouldn't be too hard I
would think.

Then she can go from Android to iOS using that "movetoiOS" App, which seems
to take a lot of things into account.
Contacts
Message history
Camera photos and videos
Web bookmarks
Mail accounts
Calendars

One issue I have is with the word "move" as opposed to "copy".
I *assume* they mean copy to iOS, because you'd always want a failsafe.

Also, the app blurb doesn't mention whether you have to set up the iOS
account first, nor whether you need to have the working SIM in the Android
phone or in the iPhone 6.

So, as long as it's a COPY (and not a move), it seems like the way to go
for a kid going from Android to iOS.

I'm more worried about hardware issues though...

[nospam]

In article <nlq7kv$1lqf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> >> Is that procedure snake oil or does it actually do useful things?
> >
> > extremely useful.
>
> We don't know the iOS yet of the phone as it hasn't been charged in a while
> so it's currently dead, and she doesn't have a cable so she will pick one
> up tomorrow.

if it's an iphone 6, it's at least ios 8, but probably 9

> Seems that the iOS must be 9 or better, but that shouldn't be too hard I
> would think.

trivial to update it.

> Then she can go from Android to iOS using that "movetoiOS" App, which seems
> to take a lot of things into account.
> Contacts
> Message history
> Camera photos and videos
> Web bookmarks
> Mail accounts
> Calendars
>
> One issue I have is with the word "move" as opposed to "copy".
> I *assume* they mean copy to iOS, because you'd always want a failsafe.
>
> Also, the app blurb doesn't mention whether you have to set up the iOS
> account first, nor whether you need to have the working SIM in the Android
> phone or in the iPhone 6.
>
> So, as long as it's a COPY (and not a move), it seems like the way to go
> for a kid going from Android to iOS.

stop overanalyzing things. nothing is deleted on the original device.
that would be incredibly stupid.

and it's actually migration because some data must be converted, such
as email, where isn't an email account info file to copy.

what it does is access the email/server/etc. configuration info and
then configures the ios email as appropriate.

> I'm more worried about hardware issues though...

such as?

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 02:42:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> What should a kid do when switching from Nexus 5 to iPhone 6?
>
> celebrate.

I am happy for her. This kid is not technical, and she has always wanted an
iPhone. Her sister was the one I had given an iPhone 3 I picked up off of
Craigslist for many years ago, when it was permanently locked to AT&T so I
had to jailbreak it just to get it to work with T-Mobile.

I gave this kid the Nexus 5, even though she would have preferred an
iPhone. I just couldn't justify the cost difference for the compute power.

Anyway, that's water under the bridge as that was more than two years ago,
and now the Nexus 5 is giving her battery life problems galore, and, like
the iPhone, you can't easily replace the battery.

She's ecstatic to finally have an iPhone, after all these years.
Let's hope the battery wasn't left dead for too long a time.

> it'd help if you knew more about it, such as with which carrier it was
> originally sold.

She has the phone now, and she went out tonight to see if Target had a
lightning cable (it was the only store open until 11pm). So, I don't know
yet if the iPhone6 will boot up as the battery was dead. Once it boots, I
presume we can tell how much memory it has and what the previous carrier
was.

>> She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
>> 5 and set it up for her).
>
> mistake #1

Heh heh ... I know a thing or two about organizing a phone, and she pretty
much kept to the single-screen desktop, and I taught her to be very stingy
with her personal information - so - she learned a few things.

Still - she can't be as stingy with data as I am, since sometimes giving
Apple (or Google) your real name or real email has merit in terms of ease
of use of the communications applications.

She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.

> a 'real' apple cable is not required. numerous third parties make mfi
> certified cables, which can be had for under $10.

Ah. Thanks. Yes. I had forgotten about MiFi or whatever it's called. That's
the Apple certification process. I don't get good vibes from that process,
but, I do agree with you that this is all she will actually need. I'll let
her know this tomorrow.

Thanks for that insight on the cable.
(I know with the iPad, Apple hates my 10-foot USB extension cables.)

> non-certified cables should be avoided, as they can sometimes cause
> problems (not always but she doesn't need to deal with it when it
> does).

Yup. I have had problems with cable extensions which work just fine for
Android but which the iPads complain about constantly. SO I don't want her
having to deal with that while she is in the beginning of her learning
curve.

I'd just mail her one of my lightning cables, but she wanted to get it
going tonight, so, I will ask tomorrow if she was able to get a cable at
Target.

>> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
>> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).
>
> if it's usb charging spec compliant it will. some are and some are't.

Hmmmm.... 5 volts, 2.4 Amps. I gave it to her. I think it's a Belkin. It
worked fine for the Android devices.

What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?

>> Googling for the specs, it seems the iPhone uses a nano SIM card while the
>> Nexus 5 uses a micro SIM card, so I called T-Mobile who said they'd ship
>> her one for $15 when we're ready to make the switch.
>
> go to a t-mobile store and they'll probably swap it for free.
>
> or, cut it down to size. nano sims are slightly thinner but that

> doesn't matter in an iphone (it does in some other phones).\

Thank you for that advice.

She actually asked me if I could do that because we had done it once before
(maybe for the iPhone 3? I don't remember).

We used a stamp-like cutter which cut the SIM into a micro SIM. We were
even able to swap back and forth for a while until the opening in the SIM
started wearing out.

Her original goal was to keep both phones and just switch the SIM card
between them, which T-Mobile lets you do without question.

But with one card being half the size of the other, I told her she had to
pick one phone and stick with it. (She'll give her brother the old Nexus 5
so it won't go to waste).

>> I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
>> had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
>> file and email it to herself, which has been done.
>>
>> She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
>> going to be a problem.
>
> as usual, you're doing it the hard way.
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196>

I have never ported Android to iPhone 6 so I was just answering her
question on how to save the contacts.

The article you suggest uses an Android App which seems to be robust. The
only problem it's called "MOVE" to iOS, which I hope is "COPY" to iOS, for
the sake of the safety of the data.

Note that the data is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier accessed on Android, so, if
there's a glitch, we don't want to be stuck. I do realize she now must
install iTunes on Windows (which would be a huge bummer to me but to her it
probably won't be a big deal).

>> The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
>> probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).
>
> don't worry about it unless it affects day to day use.

The phone was dropped off tonight, and she said that she broke my phone
glass more so than this one is broken (she had borrowed my phone once while
skateboarding and cracked my glass).

So, I think we will take that advice to just ignore the broken glass for
now.

>> I'm not sure what carrier was used for the previous phone as the SIM card
>> slot is apparently empty, so it could be T-Mobile or AT&T as far as I know,
>> so I'm not sure if all the frequencies are compatible nowadays.
>
> that's a very important detail to find out.

I probably will know by tomorrow.

>> I think she will be forced to set up an iCloud account when she inserts her
>> SIM card into the iPhone, so, I told her to use her normal email address
>> for her iCloud account as that will make her communication life easier.
>> (Using a real email on a phone is not something "I" would do, but I would
>> recommend she "follow the rules" because she just wants it to work.)
>
> it does't matter.

For a kid, I agree. They just punch buttons and don't think all that much
about it. So, I'm not going to sweat the iCloud thing at all.

>> Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
>> need, so, that isn't a problem.
>
> no you don't.

I think I do. But I'm always open to opinions. I will see her in a month
but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I
have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.

In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were
discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no
idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.

Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is
*always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by
design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it.

The apps *never move*.

So, if you put all your web browsers in a folder on the top left corner
called, say, "Web Browsers", why on earth would you need to "see" the
little tiny icons inside the folder? All your web browsers will always be
in that spot. And all your web browsers will always be in the folder called
"Web Browsers".

It's so simple that anyone who says they need to see the little icons
inside the folder doesn't get it.

Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows that
you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you
are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.

It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.

>> I'm just wondering if there are any technical gotchas we should be on the
>> lookout for *before* the switcheroo (particularly frequency issues)?
>
> the only gotchas are the ones you'll manufacture because you do things
> the most convoluted way possible.

I think the main gotcha might be that if the phone is AT&T, then the
frequencies may be different (I don't know yet) for T-Mobile for the
highest speed on data.

I don't know of any other gotchas yet, unless the iPhone hasn't been
factory reset. I don't think the iPhone was factory reset, so I will likely
have to walk her through that process tomorrow when the phone has charged
enough to boot up.

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:16:10 -0400, nospam wrote:

> if it's an iphone 6, it's at least ios 8, but probably 9
>
>> Seems that the iOS must be 9 or better, but that shouldn't be too hard I
>> would think.
>
> trivial to update it.

I have updated iPads and it is trivial, if you're the account holder.
I'm not sure how the iPhone 6 is set up but you're probably right so I
won't worry about it until tomorrow when I know the iOS version and whether
it was reset to factory defaults (probably not).

> nothing is deleted on the original device.
> that would be incredibly stupid.

Good! Thanks. That's how *I* would want the app to be, but you never know
with apps as to what they'll do. Especially since it doesn't say either way
on the Google Play site.

Anyway, we won't worry about losing data on the Android phone then.

> and it's actually migration because some data must be converted, such
> as email, where isn't an email account info file to copy.
>
> what it does is access the email/server/etc. configuration info and
> then configures the ios email as appropriate.

It does seem, from the blurb, to be a decent app, so I already texted her
that URL and told her it's the way to go.

>> I'm more worried about hardware issues though...
>
> such as?

The phone hasn't been booted in so long that the battery is dead.
Since battery life was what was driving her crazy on the Android Nexus 5, I
don't want to have to deal with a dead battery on the iPhone 6.

Also, if AT&T was the carrier - I don't know if the frequencies are
different on the iPhone 6 with respect to T-Mobile. I know it will work,
because I had the same problem with the iPhone 3, but it won't be the
highest speed unless all the frequencies match.

[Savageduck]

On 2016-07-09 06:17:49 +0000, Aardvarks <aard...@a.b.c.com> said:


>
> For example, I told her to buy a "real" Apple lightning cable, for about 20
> bucks for a three-foot length. Normally that's not the route I'd suggest
> but Apple sometimes cares what the cable is (which I know from using
> iPads), so, she may as well avoid Apple-introduced problems at this early
> stage of things.
>
> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).

The best Lightning replacement cables are the Anker Powerline of
varieties of toughness, all available via Amazon. Their power
supply/chargers are among the best.
<https://www.anker.com/products/taxons/110/Cables>

> The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
> probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).

iFixit.com

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 04:44:34 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> The best Lightning replacement cables are the Anker Powerline of
> varieties of toughness, all available via Amazon. Their power
> supply/chargers are among the best.
> <https://www.anker.com/products/taxons/110/Cables>

Thanks. I'll order her a couple of cables, one for her backpack and another
for the house to stay in the charger.

>> The glass isn't badly cracked, but I told her for about $100 we can
>> probably get that fixed (she probably won't bother as the crack is minor).
>
> iFixit.com

Thanks for that suggestion.
They had a nice iPhone 6 teardown at:
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+6+Teardown/29213

And they had the front panel replacement here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+6+Front+Panel+Assembly+Replacement/29339

And the battery replacement here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+6+Battery+Replacement/29363

Given that it's a sealed-unit, I was amazed that the battery is "super
easy" to remove, especially since the 1810mAH lithium battery in the phone
may be bad (too early to call her yet to see if it came to life with
charging).

Also, surprisingly refreshingly, apparently the display comes out easily. I
haven't repaired my own S3 display because of the work involved, but this
iPhone 6 seems easier than my Samsung - which is refreshing to hear. They
said we still need a "Pentalobe" screwdriver which seems easy to find (the
market must have stepped up to the plate).
https://www.amazon.com/Fosmon-5-Point-Pentalobe-Screwdriver-iPhone/dp/B00A0P3XUY

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 18:48:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> It's not an Apple problem, but a problem with the crappy cheap cables
> themselves (usually from no-name companies in Asia who couldn't care
> less and simply want to cash-in). Some cheap third party chargers /
> charger cables are such almighty crap that they are actually
> dangerous!!
>
> Any good quality brand cable should be fine.

This is refreshing to hear, as my last experience with the iPhone 3
(admittedly long ago) and with the current iPads was pretty much otherwise.

Yet, I see that the lightning cables are ubiquitous, so, that's good news
so that's always good news (they're at Target, which is near her).

[David Taylor]

Why "port". Sell the iPhone6 and get a much better value for money
Android phone, maybe even two!

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

[Lewis]

In message <090720160242285762%nos...@nospam.invalid>

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> or, cut it down to size. nano sims are slightly thinner but that
> doesn't matter in an iphone (it does in some other phones).

Most stores have cutters for the sims that will work much better than
trying to cut it manually.


--
'You make us want what we can't have and what you give us is worth
nothing and what you take is everything and all there is left for us is
the cold hillside, and emptiness, and the laughter of the elves.'

[nospam]

In article <slrnno2sve....@amelia.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > or, cut it down to size. nano sims are slightly thinner but that
> > doesn't matter in an iphone (it does in some other phones).
>
> Most stores have cutters for the sims that will work much better than
> trying to cut it manually.

i have two, one for micro and one for nano sims. they were about $5
each or so on ebay. i've only used them about twice though.

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:16:10 -0400, nospam wrote:

> if it's an iphone 6, it's at least ios 8, but probably 9
>
>> Seems that the iOS must be 9 or better, but that shouldn't be too hard I
>> would think.
>
> trivial to update it.

The free iPhone 6 is finally charged up:
1. It's running iOS 9.2.1 (13D15) and says 9.3.2 is downloaded
2. It's the 64GB version
3. The model is MG632LL/A
4. The carrier is Verizon 23.2 (whatever that 23.2 means)
5. The nano SIM card is Verizon
(I wonder why would CDMA uses a SIM card? Maybe for data?)

She is having trouble setting it up because it still had the other person's
name, so a friend of the kid ran the factory reset and connected to his
laptop, but now it says his name - so they must not have done the factory
reset correct yet.

>> I'm more worried about hardware issues though...
>
> such as?

I only found out today it's a Verizon iPhone 6s, so, the biggest hardware
issue is whether the iPhone 6s Verizon version can do T-Mobile.

The next biggest software question is whether the phone is unlocked - and
if not, how to unlock it.

After that, there aren't many big issues, other than she'll probably want
to run the factory reset again, and then set it up from scratch and install
the latest OS, etc.

Her laptop is Windows 10.
Can one set up an iPhone without installing iTunes nowadays?

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 05:03:48 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> I only found out today it's a Verizon iPhone 6s, so, the biggest hardware
> issue is whether the iPhone 6s Verizon version can do T-Mobile.
>
> The next biggest software question is whether the phone is unlocked - and
> if not, how to unlock it.
>
> After that, there aren't many big issues, other than she'll probably want
> to run the factory reset again, and then set it up from scratch and install
> the latest OS, etc.
>
> Her laptop is Windows 10.
> Can one set up an iPhone without installing iTunes nowadays?

Correction, it's an iPhone 6 (not 6s!).

1. Can a Verizon iPhone 6 work with T-Mobile?
2. How can she test if it's unlocked?
3. Is the correct procedure to do a full factory reset first?
4. Can she set up the iPhone from scratch without installing iTunes?

NOTE: She is leery of running the porting software because there are setups
in Android on the Nexus 5 she doesn't want to bring over to the iPhone 6.

PS: I'll call T-Mobile right now to ask the same questions.

[Savageduck]

On 2016-07-10 05:03:48 +0000, Aardvarks <aard...@a.b.c.com> said:

> On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 03:16:10 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> if it's an iphone 6, it's at least ios 8, but probably 9
>>
>>> Seems that the iOS must be 9 or better, but that shouldn't be too hard I
>>> would think.
>>
>> trivial to update it.
>
> The free iPhone 6 is finally charged up:
> 1. It's running iOS 9.2.1 (13D15) and says 9.3.2 is downloaded

iOS 9.3.2 is solid.

> 2. It's the 64GB version
> 3. The model is MG632LL/A
> 4. The carrier is Verizon 23.2 (whatever that 23.2 means)

Who knows? My iPhone 5S shows Verizon 24.1

> 5. The nano SIM card is Verizon
> (I wonder why would CDMA uses a SIM card? Maybe for data?)

It doesn't matter, the iP6 handles CDMA EV-DO, GSM/EDGE, UMTS/HSPA,
etc. Choose whichever provider you want.

> She is having trouble setting it up because it still had the other person's
> name, so a friend of the kid ran the factory reset and connected to his
> laptop, but now it says his name - so they must not have done the factory
> reset correct yet.

Yup!

>>> I'm more worried about hardware issues though...
>>
>> such as?
>
> I only found out today it's a Verizon iPhone 6s, so, the biggest hardware
> issue is whether the iPhone 6s Verizon version can do T-Mobile.

It can, just get a T-Mobile SIM.

> The next biggest software question is whether the phone is unlocked - and
> if not, how to unlock it.

That should be easily fixed.

> After that, there aren't many big issues, other than she'll probably want
> to run the factory reset again, and then set it up from scratch and install
> the latest OS, etc.

Yup!

> Her laptop is Windows 10.

You have my sympathies.

> Can one set up an iPhone without installing iTunes nowadays?

It can be set up without a computer.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <nlslcq$url$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:


> NOTE: She is leery of running the porting software because there are setups
> in Android on the Nexus 5 she doesn't want to bring over to the iPhone 6.

such as?

not everything is going to be migrated, but even if they are, delete
whatever it is. no big deal

> PS: I'll call T-Mobile right now to ask the same questions.

good luck getting a correct answer.

[nospam]

In article <nlr4dj$7ai$1...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> Why "port". Sell the iPhone6 and get a much better value for money
> Android phone, maybe even two!

not only is that advice unhelpful, but it's flat out wrong.

iphones are competitively priced with similar android phones.

a samsung galaxy s7 costs about the *same* as an iphone, if not a bit
*more*.

there are cheapo android phones, but they don't do anywhere near as
much. the moto g you keep babbling about doesn't even have lte, nfc or
a fingerprint sensor.

[nospam]

In article <nlskui$uht$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> The free iPhone 6 is finally charged up:
> 1. It's running iOS 9.2.1 (13D15) and says 9.3.2 is downloaded
> 2. It's the 64GB version
> 3. The model is MG632LL/A
> 4. The carrier is Verizon 23.2 (whatever that 23.2 means)
> 5. The nano SIM card is Verizon
> (I wonder why would CDMA uses a SIM card? Maybe for data?)

the sim is for lte.

> She is having trouble setting it up because it still had the other person's
> name, so a friend of the kid ran the factory reset and connected to his
> laptop, but now it says his name - so they must not have done the factory
> reset correct yet.

make sure find my iphone is off, otherwise you won't be able to
activate it.

if the previous owner does not remember their password to turn it off,
you're fucked.

> >> I'm more worried about hardware issues though...
> >
> > such as?
>
> I only found out today it's a Verizon iPhone 6s, so, the biggest hardware
> issue is whether the iPhone 6s Verizon version can do T-Mobile.

it can

> The next biggest software question is whether the phone is unlocked - and
> if not, how to unlock it.

all verizon lte phones (not just iphones) are unlocked.

not only that, but verizon mass unlocked all iphone 4s'es.

> After that, there aren't many big issues, other than she'll probably want
> to run the factory reset again, and then set it up from scratch and install
> the latest OS, etc.
>
> Her laptop is Windows 10.
> Can one set up an iPhone without installing iTunes nowadays?

of course.

[nospam]

In article <nlq997$1nv7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > it'd help if you knew more about it, such as with which carrier it was
> > originally sold.
>
> She has the phone now, and she went out tonight to see if Target had a
> lightning cable (it was the only store open until 11pm). So, I don't know
> yet if the iPhone6 will boot up as the battery was dead. Once it boots, I
> presume we can tell how much memory it has and what the previous carrier
> was.

why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?

> >> She's not technical so she asked me for advice (since I gave her the Nexus
> >> 5 and set it up for her).
> >
> > mistake #1
>
> Heh heh ... I know a thing or two about organizing a phone, and she pretty
> much kept to the single-screen desktop, and I taught her to be very stingy
> with her personal information - so - she learned a few things.

mistake #2

> Still - she can't be as stingy with data as I am, since sometimes giving
> Apple (or Google) your real name or real email has merit in terms of ease
> of use of the communications applications.
>
> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.

itunes gift cards.

> > a 'real' apple cable is not required. numerous third parties make mfi
> > certified cables, which can be had for under $10.
>
> Ah. Thanks. Yes. I had forgotten about MiFi or whatever it's called. That's
> the Apple certification process. I don't get good vibes from that process,
> but, I do agree with you that this is all she will actually need. I'll let
> her know this tomorrow.
>
> Thanks for that insight on the cable.
> (I know with the iPad, Apple hates my 10-foot USB extension cables.)

usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
usb spec.

they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.

> >> I also told her that her existing 3rd-party 2.4Amp USB charger should work
> >> fine for the iPhone (AFAIK).
> >
> > if it's usb charging spec compliant it will. some are and some are't.
>
> Hmmmm.... 5 volts, 2.4 Amps. I gave it to her. I think it's a Belkin. It
> worked fine for the Android devices.
>
> What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?

you don't need that much current.

the point is that if the charger is not compliant with the usb charging
spec, it won't charge the iphone or any other usb compliant devices.

>
> >> I already had her save her contacts to a Contacts.vcf on the Nexus 5 and I
> >> had her install ES File Explorer on Android so that she could access that
> >> file and email it to herself, which has been done.
> >>
> >> She's going to back up all her media files to her computer, so that's not
> >> going to be a problem.
> >
> > as usual, you're doing it the hard way.
> > <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201196>
>
> I have never ported Android to iPhone 6 so I was just answering her
> question on how to save the contacts.
>
> The article you suggest uses an Android App which seems to be robust. The
> only problem it's called "MOVE" to iOS, which I hope is "COPY" to iOS, for
> the sake of the safety of the data.

don't be stupid.

as you were told, it *migrates*. it does not delete the source. that
would be insanely stupid.

> Note that the data is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier accessed on Android, so, if
> there's a glitch, we don't want to be stuck. I do realize she now must
> install iTunes on Windows (which would be a huge bummer to me but to her it
> probably won't be a big deal).

itunes on windows will make things ridiculously simple.

>
> >> Since I'm familiar with the iPad, I pretty much know what software she'll
> >> need, so, that isn't a problem.
> >
> > no you don't.
>
> I think I do.

you don't.

*she* knows what she needs. not you.

> But I'm always open to opinions.

no you're not.

> I will see her in a month
> but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I
> have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.

mistake #3

> In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were
> discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no
> idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.
>
> Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is
> *always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by
> design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it.

a decision *she* makes not you.

> The apps *never move*.

nobody said they move on their own.

> So, if you put all your web browsers in a folder on the top left corner
> called, say, "Web Browsers", why on earth would you need to "see" the
> little tiny icons inside the folder? All your web browsers will always be
> in that spot. And all your web browsers will always be in the folder called
> "Web Browsers".
>
> It's so simple that anyone who says they need to see the little icons
> inside the folder doesn't get it.

what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
homescreen, not buried in a folder.

> Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows that
> you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you
> are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.

the computer manages that better than humans ever could.

> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.

no. totally different use case.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 05:10:54 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> PS: I'll call T-Mobile right now to ask the same questions.

I have been on the line right now with T-Mobile for something like 20 or 30
minutes.

They have to look up everything as they don't know the answer to any
question I asked them.

All they know is that you can tell if it's unlocked by putting in a foreign
SIM (aka, anything but Verizon); but of course, she has no nano SIM so
that's problematic.

Twice (oops, now 3 times) they had to ask someone so we still don't know if
the phone "can" handle T-Mobile.

But one thing they did was ask for the old phone number, and they looked it
up, and confirmed it was a Verizon phone number.

They will send us a nano SIM, but it will take up to 7 days to arrive.
I will update when there is new information.

[nospam]

In article <nlsn3q$10qd$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> > PS: I'll call T-Mobile right now to ask the same questions.
>
> I have been on the line right now with T-Mobile for something like 20 or 30
> minutes.
>
> They have to look up everything as they don't know the answer to any
> question I asked them.

welcome to t-mobile

> They will send us a nano SIM, but it will take up to 7 days to arrive.
> I will update when there is new information.

go to a t-mobile store

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:44:22 -0400, nospam wrote:

> welcome to t-mobile
>
>> They will send us a nano SIM, but it will take up to 7 days to arrive.
>> I will update when there is new information.
>
> go to a t-mobile store

This is a kid living away from home for summer school, too young to drive,
with the Apple store and T-Mobile store more miles away than someone would
want a young (teen) female to walk or bike.

Anyway, I gave up on that T-Mobile rep, although he said he's shipping her
a SIM card, so, that's all we accomplished on that long call.

Meanwhile, the Android-to-iOS app basically failed when she tried it over
the phone with me (using her Android phone to talk to me).

1. She reset the iPhone 6 back to factory defaults using the settings menu.
2. She logged into the WiFi (and her Android phone was logged in also).
3. When she set up the iPhone 6, it asked if she was porting from Android.
(I find that amazing, by the way. How did it know?)
4. It then told her to type a number on the Android phone
5. There was no number on the Android phone.
6. She installed move-to-iOS on Android.
7. Then it asked for the number to type in.
8. Then both phones showed the same migrating screens for a while.
9. Then she got a call on Android and ignored it.
10. Then the migration failed with the message "try again later".

So, the movetoiOS migration isn't as well designed as I would have thought
Apple would have made it; but she's gonna try again.

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 22:23:02 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

>> I only found out today it's a Verizon iPhone 6s, so, the biggest hardware
>> issue is whether the iPhone 6s Verizon version can do T-Mobile.
>
> It can, just get a T-Mobile SIM.

Does that also apply to the iPhone 6?
I accidentally mispoke when I said it was a 6s.
It's a 6.

>> The next biggest software question is whether the phone is unlocked - and
>> if not, how to unlock it.
>
> That should be easily fixed.

When the T-mobile nano SIM arrives, she can test to see if the phone is
unlocked. I suggested she find a friend with a "foreign" SIM to test it out
earlier, as the T-Mobile card won't arrive for a week according to the rep.

>> After that, there aren't many big issues, other than she'll probably want
>> to run the factory reset again, and then set it up from scratch and install
>> the latest OS, etc.
>
> Yup!

I googled it and found the factory reset procedure and walked her through
it. It was easy enough even though it was the blind leading the blind over
the telephone.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204686

Now we're walking through the setup "the right way":
http://gizmodo.com/how-to-set-up-your-new-iphone-the-right-way-1354840234

>> Her laptop is Windows 10.
> You have my sympathies.

Windows 8 was worse.
Just like that new spotlight crap on the latest iOS, the manufacturers keep
adding layers upon layers of ways for data to be AUTOMATICALLY stored,
collected, and found, none of which work - which makes operating systems
HARDER to use overall.

The problem is PEOPLE can't organize themselves.

If PEOPLE just would understand how to use the start menu, for example, on
Windows, they wouldn't need all that other crap (on a non-touch screen).
The problem with the start menu is that almost nobody knows how to keep it
entirely free of pollution from other software programs. Sigh.

Anyway, even Linux suffers from this attempt to help disorganized people be
organized (which *always* fails) in the case of Canonical's horrendous
Unity layer to Ubuntu.

>> Can one set up an iPhone without installing iTunes nowadays?
>
> It can be set up without a computer.

Good. She knows how restrictive Apple is, so she is going to try to avoid
using iTunes like she would avoid being locked up in jail.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:37:43 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Why "port". Sell the iPhone6 and get a much better value for money
>> Android phone, maybe even two!
>
> not only is that advice unhelpful, but it's flat out wrong.

I'm going to have to agree with nospam that selling the iPhone is out of
the question.

First off, this 64GB iPhone 6 was given to her gratis, as a gift, because
she was having trouble with her 16GB Nexus 5 (which was bought in late 2013
as I recall).

You'd never *sell* a gift given for that purpose. It's unconscionable.
The worst you'd do is give it back or give it to someone else who needs it.

But secondly, she has *always* wanted an iPhone! She's a kid. A teen. I
gave her the Nexus 5, and she figured she'd never get an iPhone until she
could afford to purchase one on her own. She was even worried about asking
me questions 'cuz she felt I'd be mad at her for joining the dark side.

Contrary to her fears, I'm happy for her. She has spent about 3 years on
Android, and now she can spend the next few years on iOS. She'll learn a
lot about the differences, especially since she's used to the open range of
Android, and now she will be reigned in far more tightly on iOS.

Most of her friends are on iOS so they can help her more easily now too.

> iphones are competitively priced with similar android phones.
>
> a samsung galaxy s7 costs about the *same* as an iphone, if not a bit
> *more*.

You always say that, but you cherry pick the phones.
If "I" cherry pick the phones, the opposite answer comes out.
So, my point is that it really depends on the cherry picked phones.
You always counter the cherry picking saying that Google subsidizes their
phones but that doesn't matter - what matters is the price you pay for the
performance you get.

Since I only buy Google phones nowadays (mostly because they're cheap, and
they better handle os upgrades - but they do lack battery access and
external storage), I would compare an iPhone with a Google phone and then
I'd see which is the best price/performance equation.

I haven't bought phones in a while so I'll run that comparison the next
time some kid or grandkid needs a phone, but I expect the same formula to
result which is that a great Google phone is a far better deal than a great
iPhone from a cost perspective.

They're TOTALLY different ecosystems - so - cost/performance is only one
objective. Most people choose the os first, and *then* find the best price,
so, it's really a moot question because few go back and forth over the
divide.

> there are cheapo android phones, but they don't do anywhere near as
> much. the moto g you keep babbling about doesn't even have lte, nfc or
> a fingerprint sensor.

I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
(IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the fastest
speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
plus in my humble opinion.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 07:16:27 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> he has spent about 3 years on
> Android, and now she can spend the next few years on iOS. She'll learn a
> lot about the differences, especially since she's used to the open range of
> Android, and now she will be reigned in far more tightly on iOS.

Actually, I think she only had the Android phone two years... but that's
long enough to know what it's like to range freely over the open range.

It will be interesting to see how she handles the Apple ecosystem.

Given she's not very technical, she'll probably do just fine, especially
since most of her friends are on iOS.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:37:45 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> was.
>
> why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?

Dunno. They didn't include the tuning-fork thingy to pull out the SIM card
either. Just the iPhone 6. And the battery was dead.

If someone gave "me" a 64GB iPhone 6 for free, I certainly wouldn't worry
about buying my own cable though, so, we're not worried.

>> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.
> itunes gift cards.

Who needs to pay for anything?
I realize I'm philosophically different than most of you, as I frequented
the freeware newsgroups for a decade or more, but, I get done what I need
to get done without spending a dime on anything.

I got my iPads for free (the young kids use them now), and the T-Mobile SIM
cards for them for free, and now she has an iPhone for free and T-Mobile
just today threw in a free SIM card for that (of course the phone service
is not free!).

I have probably 150 apps on my phones and probably 125 or so on the iPads
and they're all free and, in fact, they do what needs to be done, sometimes
far better than the payware or Appleware software does things (certainly
less restrictively).

Most don't have ads, e.g., I've never seen an ad in 90% of the software
that I have.

> usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
> usb spec.
>
> they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.

Well, they work, and my Android equipment is fine with the 10 foot USB
extensions - but the iPads complain. No big deal.

>> What more do you need than 5 volts and 2.4 Amps?
>
> you don't need that much current.
>
> the point is that if the charger is not compliant with the usb charging
> spec, it won't charge the iphone or any other usb compliant devices.

I don't read up on USB specs, so, I'll stay relatively simple with 5 volts
and as many amps as I can get being available.

That way, the phone gets whatever it asks for.

>> In fact, I thought it hilarious that, in another thread, people were
>> discussing how to "see" the little icons inside a folder! Ha! They have no
>> idea what they're doing if they even *ask* that question.
>>
>> Each folder is NAMED (so all you need is the name) and each folder is
>> *always* in the same location (remember, there is only one screen always by
>> design). So, each app is always exactly where you put it.
>
> a decision *she* makes not you.

That's a funny statement, when you think about it from the perspective of
the decisions Apple makes *for you*; but I don't wish to argue this point
because she's old enough now to make her own decisions, and I'm fine with
that.

She was even afraid to tell me that she got this iPhone but I was happy for
her. She will learn.

>> The apps *never move*.
>
> nobody said they move on their own.

They effectively do, on iOS, because you can't easily control what happens
when a new app is added, especially when you have a single desktop (which,
to me, is the only way to go).

Anyway, we don't have to belabor the issue because we come from two
different corners of the philosophy of desktop organization.

> what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
> web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
> homescreen, not buried in a folder.

You use the word "buried" but what you miss is that there's nothing
stopping anyone (including me) from putting an icon to an app on the
desktop. (Even I do it - in the dock, for example - for the most-used
apps).

However, I know usability better than anyone you've ever met in your life
(although you'll scoff at that notion), and in fact, I've shown you in the
past how extremely well organized my Linux and Windows desktops are,
including my menus, and my apps folders and my data folders (I never put
ANYTHING in program files, for example, on Windows).

I'm the most well organized person you've ever seen in your entire life.
So, the one thing I know is how to make tradeoffs on desktop setup.

If you're an average person, you make *different* tradeoffs than I do.
You would let the operating system put the icons where it wants and put the
files where it wants and then you'd need crutch after crutch after crutch
just to *find* your stuff.

That's what most people do.
And it's why, IMHO, operating systems resort to all sorts of cruft to try
to "automatically" organize, store, and locate people's data for them.

To you, that's the right paradigm.
Fine. To each his own.

But to me, that paradigm is the main reason we have abominations in
operating systems such as any windows vintage or Canonical release in the
paste few years.

Android is even worse in many ways, than iOS, but they both suck at
allowing the user to control everything about where things go.

> the computer manages that better than humans ever could.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We come from different philosophical corners.
You think the computer should automatically put, save, store, and locate
files for people and I think people should put their own tools where they
want them.

We're philosophically of different mindsets.
I understand yours. You may understand mine.

No program gets to choose where I put "my" data if I can help it.
I don't need no stinking "search engine" just to find my own files.
And, everything on my desktop is in the same spot today as it was two years
ago (assuming it was there two years ago) and on the same spot in all my
devices so I *know* where everything is like I know the back of my hand.

Two different paradigms.

>> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
>
> no. totally different use case.

I know how to organize a toolbox, and I suspect most men do too.
Screwdrivers go in one area, pliers in another, box wrenches somewhere
else, and socket sets in another. Maybe you even keep metric and SAE
separate, as I do, and maybe you keep 1/4" and 3/8", and 1/2" socket sets
separate also (as I do).

That's how I organize my tool box.
That's how I organize my sock drawers.
And that's how I organize my desktop.

It's called "o-r-g-a-n-i-z-a-t-i-o-n".

[Aardvarks]

On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 18:21:19 -0400, nospam wrote:

> i have two, one for micro and one for nano sims. they were about $5
> each or so on ebay. i've only used them about twice though.

The cutters are nice in that they're so clean when they "punch" out the
card that I have found, in the distant past, that I could cut a SIM to a
microSIM and then use it in TWO DIFFERENT PHONES.

I would put the SIM in one phone, until the battery died, and then just pop
out the middle, and put it in another phone, while the first was charging
up.

That worked for a while, until the cutout eventually broke.

I would *guess* that this won't work as well between microsim and nanosim,
but this kid wants to do that if she can. That way she has two phones.

NOTE: T-Mobile doesn't care what phone the card goes in, but other carriers
may care.

[David Taylor]

On 10/07/2016 08:16, Aardvarks wrote:
[]

> I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
> (IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the fastest
> speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
> plus in my humble opinion.

The camera on the G3 is pretty good, and that on the G4/G4+ even better.
G4+ has fingerprint. The OnePlus 3 looks even better!

[David Taylor]

On 10/07/2016 08:16, Aardvarks wrote:
[]

> You'd never *sell* a gift given for that purpose. It's unconscionable.
> The worst you'd do is give it back or give it to someone else who needs it.

OK, but I don't recall seeing that in the original post. If I missed it
I wouldn't have made that suggestion.

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 02:41 AM, David Taylor wrote:
> On 10/07/2016 08:16, Aardvarks wrote:
> []
>> I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
>> (IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the fastest
>> speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
>> plus in my humble opinion.
>
> The camera on the G3 is pretty good, and that on the G4/G4+ even better.
> G4+ has fingerprint. The OnePlus 3 looks even better!

The G2 is variable. In enough light it MOSTLY takes really sharp
closeups, but even though I move the FOCUS HERE thingy to where I want
it sometimes it decides to focus elsewhere. Distance shots aren't all
that sharp, though. Still, I've been out of my Ansel Adams phase for a
long time.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."
-- B. Ward

[nospam]

In article <nlt57t$3l2$1...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> > I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
> > (IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the fastest
> > speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
> > plus in my humble opinion.
>
> The camera on the G3 is pretty good, and that on the G4/G4+ even better.

it still falls short of the camera on an iphone or samsung galaxy.

> G4+ has fingerprint. The OnePlus 3 looks even better!

oneplus 3 is decent. at least it has a fingerprint sensor, nfc and lte.

[nospam]

In article <nlssoa$173t$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:


> > iphones are competitively priced with similar android phones.
> >
> > a samsung galaxy s7 costs about the *same* as an iphone, if not a bit
> > *more*.
>
> You always say that, but you cherry pick the phones.

i'm not cherry picking.

similar specs are similar prices.
lower specs are lower prices.

very simple concept

> If "I" cherry pick the phones, the opposite answer comes out.
> So, my point is that it really depends on the cherry picked phones.
> You always counter the cherry picking saying that Google subsidizes their
> phones but that doesn't matter - what matters is the price you pay for the
> performance you get.

you chose *one* phone which is the very definition of cherry picking.

the nexus is subsidized. google makes money on ads so they sell the
hardware cheap. amazon does a similar thing.

the way to compare is look at *numerous* phones, not only one.

>
> > there are cheapo android phones, but they don't do anywhere near as
> > much. the moto g you keep babbling about doesn't even have lte, nfc or
> > a fingerprint sensor.
>
> I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
> (IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the fastest
> speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
> plus in my humble opinion.

the lack of nfc means no android pay and no tap to send files.

the lack of a fingerprint sensor means you have to always enter in a
complex passcode. *ugh*. that gets old *fast*.

any phone today should have nfc and a fingerprint sensor.

the moto g is a dumbed down phone that's missing key features so that
it can be sold cheap. comparing it to an iphone or samsung galaxy is
crazy.

[nospam]

In article <nlsugn$19ak$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> >> was.
> >
> > why didn't the person who gave it to her include the cable?
>
> Dunno. They didn't include the tuning-fork thingy to pull out the SIM card
> either. Just the iPhone 6. And the battery was dead.

use a paper clip.

the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
drained in a couple of days.

> If someone gave "me" a 64GB iPhone 6 for free, I certainly wouldn't worry
> about buying my own cable though, so, we're not worried.
>
> >> She is too young for credit cards, so, that won't be a problem.
> > itunes gift cards.
>
> Who needs to pay for anything?

for apps that cost money.

> I realize I'm philosophically different than most of you, as I frequented
> the freeware newsgroups for a decade or more, but, I get done what I need
> to get done without spending a dime on anything.

and you end up with a shitty experience.

it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.

>
> >> The apps *never move*.
> >
> > nobody said they move on their own.
>
> They effectively do, on iOS, because you can't easily control what happens
> when a new app is added, especially when you have a single desktop (which,
> to me, is the only way to go).

nonsense.

the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.

what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
homescreens are very useful.

>
> > what you don't get is that there's no need for a *folder* of multiple
> > web browsers. choose one browser, perhaps two, and put them on the
> > homescreen, not buried in a folder.
>
> You use the word "buried" but what you miss is that there's nothing
> stopping anyone (including me) from putting an icon to an app on the
> desktop. (Even I do it - in the dock, for example - for the most-used
> apps).

your homescreen is all folders.

> However, I know usability better than anyone you've ever met in your life
> (although you'll scoff at that notion), and in fact, I've shown you in the
> past how extremely well organized my Linux and Windows desktops are,
> including my menus, and my apps folders and my data folders (I never put
> ANYTHING in program files, for example, on Windows).

you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
things in the most difficult way possible

> I'm the most well organized person you've ever seen in your entire life.
> So, the one thing I know is how to make tradeoffs on desktop setup.
>
> If you're an average person, you make *different* tradeoffs than I do.
> You would let the operating system put the icons where it wants and put the
> files where it wants and then you'd need crutch after crutch after crutch
> just to *find* your stuff.

where the hell did you get that idea?

the user always puts the icons where *they* want.

> >> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
> >
> > no. totally different use case.
>
> I know how to organize a toolbox, and I suspect most men do too.
> Screwdrivers go in one area, pliers in another, box wrenches somewhere
> else, and socket sets in another. Maybe you even keep metric and SAE
> separate, as I do, and maybe you keep 1/4" and 3/8", and 1/2" socket sets
> separate also (as I do).
>
> That's how I organize my tool box.
> That's how I organize my sock drawers.
> And that's how I organize my desktop.
>
> It's called "o-r-g-a-n-i-z-a-t-i-o-n".

it's called ocd.

[nospam]

In article <nlsv1n$19u1$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> NOTE: T-Mobile doesn't care what phone the card goes in, but other carriers
> may care.

the only one who cares is sprint, where the sim is tied to the phone
because it uses a uicc sim.

all other carriers don't give a shit.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:42:50 +0100, David Taylor wrote:

> OK, but I don't recall seeing that in the original post. If I missed it
> I wouldn't have made that suggestion.

No problem because the title doesn't say it was a free phone, and, the
android newsgroup doesn't have all the posts (only some, those that were
relevant to Android).

The second line of the original op does say "[She] wants an iPhone to
replace her Nexus 5 where a good friend is willing to give us for free a
slightly cracked iPhone 6 model A1549." - but I don't think that propagated
to the Android newsgroups (mea culpa).

Even though I bought her the Android phone (and I knew, at the time, she
wanted an iPhone!), I just couldn't justify the costs after comparing the
two devices a couple of years ago. Looking now for a comparison review,
http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Apple-iPhone-6,Google-Nexus-5/phones/8346,8148

Here's my take of that comparison (in order of appearance in that review)
of all but cost (which I put as the first consideration):

iPhone6 ($850 as listed) vs Nexus 5 ($400 as listed)
1. Price (unlocked, no contract): Nexus 5 wins hands down over iPhone 6
2. Size: about the same
3. Resolution & pixel density: Nexus 5 wins by far
4. Camera: about the same although the iPhone 6 video has better raw specs
5. CPU: about the same although hard to compare - Nexus 5 wins on raw specs
6. RAM: Nexus 5 wins handily
7. Battery life: hard to tell - about the same - Nexus 5 wins on raw specs
8. Cellular: about the same
9. Sensors: about the same although the Nexus 5 has more sensors
10. WiFi: about the same
11. USB: Nexus 5 wins hands down over the iPhone 6 on USB storage
12. GPS: about the same
13. Other: It seems the iPhone 6 has UMA (WiFi calling?) which, I'm
surprised, the Nexus 5 doesn't show (I thought *everything* had wifi
calling nowadays - so I'm confused that UMA doesn't show up for the Nexus
5.
14. Software: about the same (Google Play versus Apple App Store) although
a power user might need the utilities that are available on Google Play
which will never be on the Apple App Store
15. Security: iPhone 6 is far more secure than is Nexus 5
16. Privacy: same thing on privacy - the iPhone 6 wins on privacy issues
17. Uselesss things for her:
- The iPhone 6 has a fingerprint sensor, which I'll look up how to disable.
- The iPhone 6 has two LED flashes while the Nexus 5 only has on3 flash.
18. Storage: This iPhone 6 has 64GB while the Nexus 5 has only 16GB

Overall, the first decision is what user ecosystem she prefers, which is
clearly Apple's ecosystem over Google's ecosystem, so, the iPhone wins,
hands down, on ecosystem.

While ecosystem is paramount, price:Performance ratio is important too!

On price (since "I" paid for the original Android phone), the Nexus 5
destroys the iPhone 6 on price:performance. The two phones are essentially
equal, but the price of the Apple phone is handily double that of the
Google phone (I buy *all* my phones unlocked & with no contract!). (Caveat:
The price was as given in the review - which didn't say how much memory it
was for - so these are just rough numbers.)

So, the best summary is that the phones are equivalent in terms of
capabilities, but the iPhone6 is double the price - yet - she prefers the
Apple ecosystem (as long as she's not paying any costs).

To be determined is how she is going to like being fenced in by iOS as
compared to being on the free range for Android. I suspect she won't even
notice since she is not a power user. She just does what all kids do, and,
in that sense, she will be far *happier* on the iPhone 6 than she was on
the Nexus 5.

[nospam]

In article <nltt2o$j2s$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> iPhone6 ($850 as listed) vs Nexus 5 ($400 as listed)

the iphone 6 starts at $549.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:27 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> You always say that, but you cherry pick the phones.
>
> i'm not cherry picking.
>
> similar specs are similar prices.
> lower specs are lower prices.

You can't say that and actually believe it.

I just posted, moments ago, a real-life comparison that I personally made
something like two years ago for the exact two phones that are in this
thread (literally).

I won't repeat that summary here, but for those two very real comparisons,
the iPhone 6 and the Nexus 5 are about the same when it comes to
performance (the Nexus 5 had slightly better raw specs overall so it's a
slightly better phone overall).

HOWEVER ... the price of the iPhone 6 is *DOUBLE* that of the Nexus 5.

So from a price:performance standpoint, there is absolutely no comparison.
The difference in price is *astoundingly huge*.
It's like comparing Alaska and Texas side by side - it's so obvious.

Remember, that's a "real" decision "I" had to make (and if we go back two
years in this newsgroup, you'll find those discussions I made when I was
making those decisions!).

There is one caveat though, which is that "this kid" prefers the Apple
ecosystem, even though she has been on Android. She doesn't pay for the
equipment. Her step parents and I pay for all her stuff (mostly me).

In fact, she was *afraid* to tell me she has this iPhone 6 because she
worried I'd chastise her; but I welcome her choice because she always
wanted an Apple phone - I just couldn't justify the horrendous price for
essentially the same phone (hardware wise).

I asked her last night how she felt and she said "I thought I was never
going to get an iPhone"; so she really (really) wants in on the Apple
ecosystem!

That's great.

After two years on the iPhone, I'll post back a summary of how she feels
once she's experienced in both ecosystems.

[nospam]

In article <nlttn8$k38$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> >> You always say that, but you cherry pick the phones.
> >
> > i'm not cherry picking.
> >
> > similar specs are similar prices.
> > lower specs are lower prices.
>
> You can't say that and actually believe it.

i can and do

> I just posted, moments ago, a real-life comparison that I personally made
> something like two years ago for the exact two phones that are in this
> thread (literally).

that's one single cherry-picked example.

you're ignoring all other examples that prove you wrong.

for instance, a samsung galaxy s7 costs *more* than an iphone 6 or 6s.
the galaxy note costs more than the 6+/6s+.

as i said, you have to compare the *entire* competitive landscape not
one single phone.

> I won't repeat that summary here, but for those two very real comparisons,
> the iPhone 6 and the Nexus 5 are about the same when it comes to
> performance (the Nexus 5 had slightly better raw specs overall so it's a
> slightly better phone overall).

they're not as close as you think.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:35:26 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> iPhone6 ($850 as listed) vs Nexus 5 ($400 as listed)
>
> the iphone 6 starts at $549.

I should compare the prices two years ago of the Nexus 5 and the iPhone 6,
both with 16GB for a fair comparison of price.

We can look back in the Usenet record because I was all over this when I
made the decision two or so years ago but I think the Nexus 5 went for $300
from Google but T-Mobile talked me into paying $350 with no money down and
then 1/24th of the rest every month as part of my contract (she's on my
contract since I pay for a lot of this kid's costs).

Normally I'd buy straight from Google but the problem here was that this
phone was a replacement phone because the first phone I bought her had only
4GB but it *advertised* that you could add 32GB as storage.

They fooled me. On Android, it's basically a lie that you can add 32GB as
storage to augment that puny 4GB (which is a long story which I won't
recount here).

So, the *only* reason I went through T-Mobile for that Google phone was
that I wanted them to reimburse me the *full price* I paid for the original
4GB phone I gave her - and they did.

At that time, they talked me into the $350 no-money-down plan, so, that's a
long-winded story of why I (of all people!) paid $50 more for a $300 phone
than I should have.

But, even at the grossly inflated price of $350 for that 16GB phone, that's
still tremendously less expensive than that $550 price you quote.

I remember many conversations from you on the topic of costs, and in fact
you had some just this week, and you basically cherry pick your numbers
where you cherry pick the more expensive Android prices against Apple
prices.

If you were actually making a *real* choice, you'd compare exactly as "I"
compared, which would be to take the equivalent best phones for the money
instead of expensive comparison phones.

In this case, the 16GB Nexus 5 is roughly equivalent (I think slightly
better - but let's just say equivalent) to the 16GB iPhone 6, and that was
the "real" comparison I made at the time.

For $300 (on Google), the Nexus 5 was tremendously less expensive than the
(essentially equivalent) iPhone 6 from Apple at over five hundred dollars.

NOTE: I know you complain about Google subsidizing the phone, but, I don't
complain when T-Mobile sends me a free SIM card, and if you want to
subsidize the next phone I buy, I won't complain either. The fact they sell
the phones at an extremely competitive price is all that should matter
(assuming that you're bought in on the Android ecosystem).

SUMMARY:
In the end, it's clear from the fact that Apple is one of the most
successful companies in the world, that plenty of people don't make the raw
price:performance comparisons I make. For them, the ecosystem is the first
choice. But, for me, the ecosystem of Apple is far worse than Android (it's
a big negative); but for her, the ecosystem is all that matters!

Such are the vagaries of how people make decisions.
(I'm Aspergers - so I make them more logically than emotionally.)

[Lewis]

In message <2016070922230236123-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>

Could be worse. Could be Windows 8. Or Vista.

--
(?i)\b((?:https?://|www\d{0,3}[.]|[a-z0-9.\-]+[.][a-z]{2,4}/)(?:[^\s()<>]+|\(([^\s()<>]+|(\([^\s()<>]+\)))*\))+(?:\(([^\s()<>]+|(\([^\s()<>]+\)))*\)|[^\s`!()\[\]{};:'".,<>?«»“”‘’]))

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:27 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you chose *one* phone which is the very definition of cherry picking.

I was buying a real phone as a gift to a child.
So, in the end, how can you fault me for choosing one phone to buy?
You're funny sometimes.

You don't look at all the solutions when you cherry pick.
I looked at *all* the phones available at that time.
And I asked *plenty* of questions here and on the Android newsgroups at
that time.

Out of *all* the selections, I pared it down to two:
a. iPhone 6 (16GB)
b. Nexus 5 (16GB)

The kid preferred the iPhone 6 but she wasn't paying the money.
I just couldn't justify the *huge* price difference, for what was
essentially the same phone (I'm convinced the Nexus 5 is a better phone on
raw specs - but I don't want to argue that - so I'll just say they're
essentially equivalent).

Two essentially equivalent phones:
a. iPhone 6/16GB = $550 (from Apple)
b. Nexus 5/16GB = $300 (from Google, $350 from T-Mobile 0% interest 2-year
loan)

On ecosystem, both she and you would still choose the overpriced Apple
phone (and I completely understand that as she's not paying for the phone).

But I'm *paying* for price:performance, and in that real-world situation, I
just couldn't justify grossly overpaying for what was essentially the same
performance.

> the nexus is subsidized. google makes money on ads so they sell the
> hardware cheap. amazon does a similar thing.

I knew you would say that.
Trust me - I get all the free stuff I can - so if Google wants to subsidize
a phone to give it to me for nearly free or at their cost - I will get down
on my knees and say the Lord's Prayer and thank them profusely for
subsidizing my phone.

You make getting a phone at their cost sound like a bad thing.
You must *enjoy* overpaying for your equipment.
I never understood that about you - but you've been saying that for years.
I even predicted (in this thread) that you would say that.

It just makes no sense.
What you're really complaining about is the Android ecosystem is tailored
to make money for Google - and I don't disagree. But that happens on *all*
Android phones, not just the Nexus 5.

Or are you actually saying that the Nexus 5 has "special" things that help
Google which are not on the non-Google branded phones?

> the way to compare is look at *numerous* phones, not only one.

You claim that you know me even though, for privacy, I change nyms
frequently. Yet, you don't know a *thing* about me, even though you claim
otherwise.

Do you even think, for a second, that I didn't look at *all* the phones
available at that time to compare them for price:performance?

At that time, the *best* price:performance I could find was the Nexus 5
which compared favorably with the iPhone 6.

When you are actually *buying* a phone, you look at everything; but you hve
to nail it down to a single phone eventually.

Hence, my conclusion two years ago was that the Nexus 5 was essentially the
same phone (hardware wise) as the iPhone 6 - yet - the cost performance was
so hugely in favor of the Nexus 5 because the *cost* of the iPhone 6 was
vastly more than that of the equivalent hardware.

[David Taylor]

On 10/07/2016 17:28, Aardvarks wrote:
[]

Your comparison is pretty much spot-on. You can get two Android phones
for the price of one iPhone of similar capability. Nice to have an
iPhone if someone else is paying!

[David Taylor]

On 10/07/2016 15:30, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 07/10/2016 02:41 AM, David Taylor wrote:
>> On 10/07/2016 08:16, Aardvarks wrote:
>> []
>>> I bought someone the moto-G, and she loves it - but - the camera sucks
>>> (IMHO), and it's a bit small for my tastes, and it doesn't have the
>>> fastest
>>> speeds (as you noted) but the lack of NFC and a fingerprint sensor is a
>>> plus in my humble opinion.
>>
>> The camera on the G3 is pretty good, and that on the G4/G4+ even better.
>> G4+ has fingerprint. The OnePlus 3 looks even better!
>
> The G2 is variable. In enough light it MOSTLY takes really sharp
> closeups, but even though I move the FOCUS HERE thingy to where I want
> it sometimes it decides to focus elsewhere. Distance shots aren't all
> that sharp, though. Still, I've been out of my Ansel Adams phase for a
> long time.

Yes, the better camera was one of the most important reasons for my G2
to G3 upgrade.

[David Taylor]

On 10/07/2016 18:07, Aardvarks wrote:
[]

> Hence, my conclusion two years ago was that the Nexus 5 was essentially the
> same phone (hardware wise) as the iPhone 6 - yet - the cost performance was
> so hugely in favor of the Nexus 5 because the *cost* of the iPhone 6 was
> vastly more than that of the equivalent hardware.

You're wasting your time if you are expecting a reasoned discussion with
"nospam" !

[nospam]

In article <nltuml$lha$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> For $300 (on Google), the Nexus 5 was tremendously less expensive than the
> (essentially equivalent) iPhone 6 from Apple at over five hundred dollars.

as i said, because google subsidized it. *that* is why it costs less.

now compare *other* android phones for an accurate picture of pricing.

similar samsung galaxy s series or note series phones are about the
same and in some cases, *more* than an iphone, which is about the
closest match to an iphone there is, mostly because samsung straight
out copies it.

$694:
<https://www.att.com/cellphones/samsung/galaxy-s7.html>
$679
<http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/samsung-galaxy-s7.html>
$709
<http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/samsung-galaxy-note5.html>

htc and other phones are also similarly priced to iphones.

$679
<http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/htc.html>

the moto g series costs less than an iphone because it does less (much
less). in fact, until the most recent model, it didn't even have lte or
nfc. that's pretty bad.

[nospam]

In article <nltvgk$rn7$1...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>
> Your comparison is pretty much spot-on. You can get two Android phones
> for the price of one iPhone of similar capability.

you absolutely cannot get a phone of similar capability to an iphone
for half the price.

similar phones, such as the galaxy s7 or note 5, cost about the same as
an iphone, sometimes a bit more.

$694:
<https://www.att.com/cellphones/samsung/galaxy-s7.html>

you keep yapping about the moto g, which is in no way comparable to any
current iphone. the moto g series is a low end phone for a low end
price.

> Nice to have an
> iPhone if someone else is paying!

nice to have anything if someone else is paying.

wtf kind of stupid comment is that?

[nospam]

In article <nltvke$rn7$2...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> > The G2 is variable. In enough light it MOSTLY takes really sharp
> > closeups, but even though I move the FOCUS HERE thingy to where I want
> > it sometimes it decides to focus elsewhere. Distance shots aren't all
> > that sharp, though. Still, I've been out of my Ansel Adams phase for a
> > long time.
>
> Yes, the better camera was one of the most important reasons for my G2
> to G3 upgrade.

you must be joking.

[nospam]

In article <nltvoj$rn7$3...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> > Hence, my conclusion two years ago was that the Nexus 5 was essentially the
> > same phone (hardware wise) as the iPhone 6 - yet - the cost performance was
> > so hugely in favor of the Nexus 5 because the *cost* of the iPhone 6 was
> > vastly more than that of the equivalent hardware.
>
> You're wasting your time if you are expecting a reasoned discussion with
> "nospam" !

insults means you have nothing.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:27 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the lack of nfc means no android pay and no tap to send files.

Thanks for explaining NFC as I never use the NFC that is on my phone just
as I never used the IR that was in a dozen of my laptops over time.

The lack of Android Pay is actually a feature for her; but thanks for
explaining it as it's not something I will ever know much about as I'll
never use it.

No tap to send files doesn't seem too useful to me either, simply because I
send files all the time between a phone and the computer.

I think when I first got my S3, a bunch of people sent me vcards at a
party, but that was years ago, and hence the last time I cared about NFC.

In the end, it's the same, to me, as having a serial port on my laptop.
Sure, it has a use, but not to me.

But thanks for explaining it; I had forgotten about those vcard transfers,
which nowadays, we just do by sending SMS to each other or calling them and
having them put the phone number into the contact list (admittedly more
typing than vcard transfer would be).

> the lack of a fingerprint sensor means you have to always enter in a
> complex passcode. *ugh*. that gets old *fast*.

Heh heh ... When I moved to California, they required my fingerprint so I
bleached it and sandpapered it until it hurt, and then I rubbed oil on top
of it, just to make the picture fuzzy.

My thumbs were sore for a week, and my friends wondered whether I was a
felon on the run or something! Hah.... if they only knew how many pot
farmers I've reported to the Sheriff this summer, they'd not worry since
the Sheriff knows me almost by voice when I call their supposedly anonymous
phone number.

> any phone today should have nfc and a fingerprint sensor.

Thanks for that advice.
For this child, neither is useful.
Which, after all, is all that matters.

> the moto g is a dumbed down phone that's missing key features so that
> it can be sold cheap. comparing it to an iphone or samsung galaxy is
> crazy.

I do agree with you. In fact, I'm kind of sorry I bought that Moto G from
Google for $200 (16GB).

I had originally bought 4GB Android phones, where I was lulled into
complacency by the T-Mobile MARKETING which said you could augments the
puny 4GB with 32GB of external storage. I complained to the FCC that this
was essentially a lie that the phone has 4GB (you lose almost 3GB right off
the bat) and I filed another complaint to the FCC that the external storage
is next to useless for storing apps and app data.

Sigh. Lesson learned. So then I started buying only 16GB phones, with
external storage of 32GB, which is what I have for my S3 and which works
fine.

But, that $200 Moto-G was a gift for someone's very first smart phone. She
wanted a keyboard (a real keyboard!) like she had on her Blackberry. I just
couldn't find any phone at that time (about two years ago) that was Android
and which had a real keyboard.

So I talked her into that Moto-G. It's smaller than the blackberry was, and
it didn't have that problematic clit that seems to break all the time. She
bought a nice case for it (it was a black phone) to spice it up, and she
has been happy with it every since.

She is *not* a power user, so I set up the phone for her (one desktop
screen, like all the rest). I didn't want to change the launcher on her (it
uses Google Now, as far as I can recall), which had the advantage that it
could make empty placeholder folders.

Those empty placeholder folders have served her extremely well, as she
knows, ahead of time, *where* to put things, and I noticed just yesterday
she has only two desktop screens at this time, the second one containing
stuff for work and the first one containing personal stuff (which works out
fine since Android can have the same icon in multiple places).

Overall, I think her camera sucks on that Moto-G, but I haven't run
detailed comparisons (maybe she just sucks at taking pictures?). But, for
price:performance, the $200 unlocked no-contract Moto-G is still a "decent"
phone for a non-technical Android beginner.

PS: I think it lacks 5GHz WiFi too, which was something I didn't know when
I made the original comparisons.

[nospam]

In article <nlu095$np1$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> No tap to send files doesn't seem too useful to me either, simply because I
> send files all the time between a phone and the computer.

it's much easier with tap to send.

but you're all about doing things the hard way.

[Lewis]

In message <100720160137457650%nos...@nospam.invalid>

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
> usb spec.

> they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.

I've never seen a USB extension cable work on an iOS device. Hell,
sometimes long cables don't work (I had some 3m ones from monoprice that
barely worked on like the 3GS and never worked at all on the 4S.)

The keyboard extensions that Apple used about 15-20 years ago worked,
but only for Apple keyboards.

> the point is that if the charger is not compliant with the usb charging
> spec, it won't charge the iphone or any other usb compliant devices.

Or it will do things like catch fire, short out, or even sort of
explode. However, Belkin stuff is UL rated, so that's not an issue.
However, Belkin stuff is poorer than many others in general.

> itunes on windows will make things ridiculously simple.

But is in no way *required* and I know quite a few people who have
iPhones and no computer at all, much less a computer with iTunes.

>> I will see her in a month
>> but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I
>> have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.

> mistake #3

What do you mean? What girl wouldn't want the same apps and layout as
her 50 years-older uncle?

>> Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows that
>> you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you
>> are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.

No, not at all. This si a STUPID way to arrange items. You put your most
frequently used 3-4 items in the dock. You put the next most frequently
used items in the corners, with the least frequently used of those in
the top corners. YOu never put folders in these prime positions.

The rest of the screen is for less used apps and folders.

This way, the apps you access most are the easiest to get to.

However, That works for me because I think primarily spatially. I have a
friend who just has screens of icons. no folders anywhere and no order
at all to her icons that I can see. She has no problems launching the
apps she wants and is no slower than I am.

The phone is a *personal* device, and you set it up however the fuck you

want.

>> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.

> no. totally different use case.

Not even similar in the slightest way.


--
Updated to be PRCE compatible after 400 years: /(bb|[^b]{2})/

[nospam]

In article <slrnno51bb...@amelia.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > usb extension cables are unsupported *everywhere*, as it violates the
> > usb spec.
>
> > they *might* work, but that has more to do with luck than anything else.
>
> I've never seen a USB extension cable work on an iOS device. Hell,
> sometimes long cables don't work (I had some 3m ones from monoprice that
> barely worked on like the 3GS and never worked at all on the 4S.)

they shouldn't work, since usb extension cables violate the spec.

if they do, it's mostly luck.

> The keyboard extensions that Apple used about 15-20 years ago worked,
> but only for Apple keyboards.

that's because those keyboards had an unusually short cord, so the
extension only made it a 'normal' length, still within length specs.
since usb extension cables are non-compliant, apple notched the
connector so that it could only fit an apple keyboard.

otherwise, people would use it on other devices and have problems.

>
> >> I will see her in a month
> >> but until then, I'll tell her to put the same stuff on the phone that I
> >> have, and I'll help her organize it so that she can find stuff instantly.
>
> > mistake #3
>
> What do you mean? What girl wouldn't want the same apps and layout as
> her 50 years-older uncle?

good point.

and she sends him snapchat photos too to 'thank' him for his help.

> >> Anyway, she is well acquainted with a well designed desktop. She knows
> >> that
> >> you never install or save anything until you know ahead of time where you
> >> are going to put it. And like items always go in the same spot.
>
> No, not at all. This si a STUPID way to arrange items. You put your most
> frequently used 3-4 items in the dock. You put the next most frequently
> used items in the corners, with the least frequently used of those in
> the top corners. YOu never put folders in these prime positions.
>
> The rest of the screen is for less used apps and folders.
>
> This way, the apps you access most are the easiest to get to.
>
> However, That works for me because I think primarily spatially. I have a
> friend who just has screens of icons. no folders anywhere and no order
> at all to her icons that I can see. She has no problems launching the
> apps she wants and is no slower than I am.
>
> The phone is a *personal* device, and you set it up however the fuck you
> want.

yep.

i put the most used apps on the first home screen. that works for me.

> >> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
>
> > no. totally different use case.
>
> Not even similar in the slightest way.

yep

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:06:45 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> Could be worse. Could be Windows 8. Or Vista.

I agree. Windows 10 is no worse than Windows 8 or Vista.
And, in fact, better.

I bought her that laptop at Costco for something like $500, which included
Microsoft Office. (It was my mistake not to notice that it didn't have 5GHz
wifi.) It didn't come with discs so I had to argue with the manufacturer to
get operating system discs, and then with Microsoft to get a free Office
disc.

It was Windows 8 at that time, which was shockingly dismal.
So we upgraded to Windows 10 a couple months after that came out last year.

And she has been using Windows 10 ever since.

She's not technical, so, she deals with whatever they give her.
I set up her computer and told her to *never* put anything in any default
directory, simply because the apps pollute them all.

1. So we created our own start menu which the apps don't pollute.
2. We created an app hierarchy which only has apps she installs.
3. We created a data hierarchy which only has data she puts there.
4. And we created a temp hierarchy which only she puts stuff in.

C:\data <== this is her data stored exactly how "she" wants it stored
C:\app <== this has a hierarchy exactly the same as the menu hierarchy
C:\tmp <== this only has transient files "she" puts there.

By setting up the app and data hierarchies *outside* the Microsoft
defaults, *nothing* pollutes them.

That means they *stay* organized.
Remember, nobody knows how to organize like I do (figuratively speaking).

What I know is that the *biggest* problem is that people can't find their
stuff, and there are *lots* of reasons for that. But one reason is that
they don't create folders for everything *ahead* of time, and then they
populate those folders when/if needed.

I do the same on the Android and iOs devices, where, thankfully, Google Now
launchers allow empty placeholder folders (the Nova launcher does not!) and
where Android allows far better organizational tasks than does iOS.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:18:13 -0400, nospam wrote:

> as i said, because google subsidized it. *that* is why it costs less.
>
> now compare *other* android phones for an accurate picture of pricing.
>
> similar samsung galaxy s series or note series phones are about the
> same and in some cases, *more* than an iphone, which is about the
> closest match to an iphone there is, mostly because samsung straight
> out copies it.
>
> $694:
> <https://www.att.com/cellphones/samsung/galaxy-s7.html>
> $679
> <http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/samsung-galaxy-s7.html>
> $709
> <http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/samsung-galaxy-note5.html>
>
> htc and other phones are also similarly priced to iphones.
>
> $679
> <http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phones/htc.html>
>
> the moto g series costs less than an iphone because it does less (much
> less). in fact, until the most recent model, it didn't even have lte or
> nfc. that's pretty bad.

Remember, I made *all* those comparisons and I make them *every* time I buy
a phone (I buy a lot since I give them out as gifts).

When you compare the two ecosystems, you actually can't compare them,
because the recipient either wants the Apple ecosystem or not. If the
recipient is a kid, they almost always want the Apple ecosystem, so, that's
that.

However, once you get *past* the ecosystem choice, then when it comes to
the best price:performance Android phones against the best
price:performance Apple phones, the best Android phones kill the best Apple
equivalents - not on performance so much as on price.

If that fact of life ever changed, then let me know because there is an
August 15th birthday coming up, and I plan on buying that teen the best
phone that meets rational price:performance tests.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:18:14 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you absolutely cannot get a phone of similar capability to an iphone
> for half the price.

At the Google price of $300, the iPhone 6, at $550 is $250 more on a $300
phone, which is not double - but it's not far from double.

Plus, you can't possibly disagree that the iPhone 6 (at 16GB) is roughly
equivalent in raw hardware specs to the Nexus 5 (at 16GB).

And, you can't possibly disagree that the unlocked no-contract iPhone
6/16GB was something like $550 or so from Apple at the time, whereas the
unlocked no-contract Nexus 5 was $300 from Google at that time.

I actually *paid* $350 for the Nexus 5 only because I was stuck with the
T-Mobile deal of taking the phone I originally gave her back at full price,
even though she had been using it for something like 6 months.

So, I was stuck trading in a six-month old 4GB Android phone to T-mobile
who was the only one who'd give me the full purchase price back in trade-in
for the new $350 Nexus 5.

Still, even at the hugely inflated $350 price, it's still a couple of
hundred dollars cheaper than the equivalent iPhone 6.

How can you possibly refute that math since it's real, and all this is part
of the Usenet record of http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android and
http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone ?

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:18:14 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you keep yapping about the moto g, which is in no way comparable to any
> current iphone. the moto g series is a low end phone for a low end
> price.

I must agree with nospam that the Moto-G doesn't compare to any of the
Apple phones.

I, myself have purchased the Nexus 5 for a kid who wanted an iPhone 6, and
a Moto-G for an adult who just wanted her first smart phone.

Two different equations.
I agree that the Moto-G is not in the same category as the current iPhones.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:44:22 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you're ignoring all other examples that prove you wrong.

What I'm ignoring are all the overpriced Android phones.
That's true.

When I'm *buying* a phone, I put in the bucket *all* the phones available
at that time and I pick the *best* price:performance of Android to compare
against the best price:performance of Apple.

If you want to compare the worst price:performance of Android against the
best price:performance of Apple, then yes, you will come up with totally
different results.

Why can I agree with you - but you can't understand my simple comparison
(when everyone else has no problem understanding my comparison metrics)?

[nospam]

In article <nlu4eh$u2h$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > you're ignoring all other examples that prove you wrong.
>
> What I'm ignoring are all the overpriced Android phones.

given that samsung phones outsell the nexus by a *huge* margin, it is
by definition, *not* overpriced.

[nospam]

In article <nlu47j$tjt$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > you absolutely cannot get a phone of similar capability to an iphone
> > for half the price.
>
> At the Google price of $300, the iPhone 6, at $550 is $250 more on a $300
> phone, which is not double - but it's not far from double.

that's the exception *because* *it's* *subsidized* and it's not all
that comparable anyway.

you keep snipping that the galaxy s7 is the same price as an iphone
(actually a little more).

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 13:25:38 -0400, nospam wrote:

> it's much easier with tap to send.
>
> but you're all about doing things the hard way.

You can edify me.

What on earth would I want to "tap to send" and to whom?

What are my alternatives to get that file if I don't have NFC?

Remember, I have NFC on my own phone, so I can test out whatever you say,
so don't lie please.

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 09:39 AM, Aardvarks wrote:

> In fact, she was *afraid* to tell me she has this iPhone 6 because she
> worried I'd chastise her; but I welcome her choice because she always
> wanted an Apple phone - I just couldn't justify the horrendous price for
> essentially the same phone (hardware wise).
>
> I asked her last night how she felt and she said "I thought I was never
> going to get an iPhone"; so she really (really) wants in on the Apple
> ecosystem!

It's a status symbol. I assume that you refrained from yelling SHEEP!
at her...


--
Cheers, Bev
I didn't break it! It was doing that before I broke it... er...

[nospam]

In article <nlu4r1$ugt$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > it's much easier with tap to send.
> >
> > but you're all about doing things the hard way.
>
> You can edify me.
>
> What on earth would I want to "tap to send" and to whom?

cameras are a great example.

tap the phone to the camera, a peer to peer wifi connection is
automatically configured over nfc and photos transfer over wifi.

no computer needed.

another use is nfc stickers. you could have a sticker on your desk and
auto-unlock your phone when you put it on your desk.

> What are my alternatives to get that file if I don't have NFC?

doing it hard way.

> Remember, I have NFC on my own phone, so I can test out whatever you say,
> so don't lie please.

knock off the insults.

having nfc doesn't necessarily mean you have all possible features.

[nospam]

In article <nlu50n$g48$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > In fact, she was *afraid* to tell me she has this iPhone 6 because she
> > worried I'd chastise her; but I welcome her choice because she always
> > wanted an Apple phone - I just couldn't justify the horrendous price for
> > essentially the same phone (hardware wise).
> >
> > I asked her last night how she felt and she said "I thought I was never
> > going to get an iPhone"; so she really (really) wants in on the Apple
> > ecosystem!
>
> It's a status symbol.

no

> I assume that you refrained from yelling SHEEP!
> at her...

idiot.

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 09:55 AM, Aardvarks wrote:

> Normally I'd buy straight from Google but the problem here was that this
> phone was a replacement phone because the first phone I bought her had only
> 4GB but it *advertised* that you could add 32GB as storage.
>
> They fooled me. On Android, it's basically a lie that you can add 32GB as
> storage to augment that puny 4GB (which is a long story which I won't
> recount here).

BTDT. The bastards ALL said that, as if you could run apps on the
external card.

BUT with Android 6 the external card CAN be used as an extensions of
internal memory. Most of my apps are happy to run on the external card,
but some (like the google shit) insists on staying in the internal
memory. Still, the important stuff (like maps, for instance) is happy
on the external card and I have a bit over 1GB empty on the internal
memory to play with as well as 17GB on the 32GB external card.

> Such are the vagaries of how people make decisions.
> (I'm Aspergers - so I make them more logically than emotionally.)

Good for you! Have you found that it gives you more advantages than
disadvantages or vice versa?

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:28 -0400, nospam wrote:

> use a paper clip.

Yep. But it's a *small* paper clip.
I told her *not* to use a sharp needle.
I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
Can it?

> the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
> drained in a couple of days.

Yeah. My only worry is that the battery is "bad" since she's ditching the
Nexus 5 mainly because it was getting flaky on her with respect to battery
life.

But so far, it's charged up so, time will tell.
She's ecstatic to get an iPhone 6 for free since it's something she always
wanted.

The fact she's willing to give me back the Nexus 5 in a heartbeat tells the
whole story right there.


>> Who needs to pay for anything?
>
> for apps that cost money.

I have taught this child well.
She knows that Apple users pay more than twice as much, on average, on
in-app purchases than do Android users. She knows what a whale is when it
comes to games. And she knows that there is freeware for almost everything
you need.

Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
that they can get for free.

For example, T-Mobile tried to push the $15 for the nanosim on me, so I
just called back a day later and got it for free.

Same as with a compass app or an offline map app or a host of utilities.
You can pay for them.
Or you can get them for free.

Since I only choose the best apps, offhand I'd say 90% of my free aps have
zero ads, maybe even more than 90%.

It takes intelligence and time to get value in a free app.
Any fool can be separated from their money on payware apps.

IMHO, there is *nothing* worth paying for by way of apps for Android or
iOS.

Name one thing, for example, that this kid would want, that is worth paying
for, that I can't get for her for free on either ecosystem?

> and you end up with a shitty experience.
> it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.

We've been down that road.

There's *nothing* you have, that I want, that I don't have for free
already.

As you know from the stats, Apple users pay 2.5 times more (on average) on
in-app purchases than do Android users, so, the entire "personality cult"
or whatever you call it of the Apple ecosystem is geared toward nickle and
diming Apple customers forever.

Heck, you even have to rent your own data back, once you go over the puny
limit they give you, as compared to what you can get for free on the cloud
(not that I'd ever put any data on the cloud myself).


> nonsense.
> the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.

Then you know absolutely nothing about the average Apple user.

> what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
> homescreens are very useful.

Then you know absolutely nothing about desktop organization.

> your homescreen is all folders.

No it's not. There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example.
Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.

What I realize is that people don't *understand* the use model.
They *think* (hugely erroneously) that you "read" the app icons inside the
folders. Huh? They're operating under huge misunderstandings.

SO, they compare what they "think" is a use model to theirs, and they end
up making bad comparisons simply because they have no concept of a good use
model.

There is no way I even *look* at the icons on the folder becuase I *know*
every single app which is inside that folder. It's the same on ALL my iOS
devices, and on all the iOS devices that I set up for others (for the most
part) and even the same on Android (only better organized becuase Android
allows better organization than does iOS).

That you don't understand the use model does not make it "counter
productive". It just means you don't understand the use model because
anyone who thinks you have to read the icons inside the folder doesn't
understand the use model.

> you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
> things in the most difficult way possible

I know where *all* my files and apps are, and guess what?
I know where they go even before I put them there.

And guess what?
I don't need to resort to the kluge of a search engine to find them.

> where the hell did you get that idea?
> the user always puts the icons where *they* want.

Heh heh ... go on thinking that.

> it's called ocd.

It probably is.

[David Taylor]

But the Moto G is years old. The current models are the G4 and G4+,
replacing the G3. Compare them in the shop for yourself.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 17:27:07 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> Or it will do things like catch fire, short out, or even sort of
> explode. However, Belkin stuff is UL rated, so that's not an issue.
> However, Belkin stuff is poorer than many others in general.

FUD.

> What do you mean? What girl wouldn't want the same apps and layout as
> her 50 years-older uncle?

There is a "game" folder on her phone.
There is no game folder in mine.
:)

> No, not at all. This si a STUPID way to arrange items. You put your most
> frequently used 3-4 items in the dock. You put the next most frequently
> used items in the corners, with the least frequently used of those in
> the top corners. YOu never put folders in these prime positions.

I don't argue with *your* organizational scheme.
If it works for you, then that's fine.

Mine works for me, even on the primitive launcher Apple provides.
On Android, it works even better because of the modern launchers available.

> The rest of the screen is for less used apps and folders.
> This way, the apps you access most are the easiest to get to.

That's a fine system. I'm not arguing against your system.
If it works for you, then that's fine.

The proof is that you can find anything you need in a split second.
That's all that matters.

If you have to resort to a search engine to find your stuff, then you lost
the battle before you even started.

> However, That works for me because I think primarily spatially. I have a
> friend who just has screens of icons. no folders anywhere and no order
> at all to her icons that I can see. She has no problems launching the
> apps she wants and is no slower than I am.

I doubt she can find things as quickly as you or I can, since we *know*
exactly where everything is, and, by design, *nothing* is more than two
taps away (where the most used apps are a single tap away).

> The phone is a *personal* device, and you set it up however the fuck you
> want.

Who is disagreeing with you?
If it works, you set it up like you want.

The philosophical problem is that the hardware manufacturers add kluge upon
kluge upon kluge to "help" people find their stuff (Microsoft is the worst
for this, Canonical is second worst IMHO, and then Apple/Google aren't too
far behind).

>>> It's the same rules you use to organize your toolbox in your garage.
>> no. totally different use case.
> Not even similar in the slightest way.

It's exactly the same concept as you organize your clothes in your closet.
Same as you organize your desk at work.
Same as you organize your tools in your tool box.

A place for everything; and everything in its place - never more than two
taps away by design!

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:24:29 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> NOTE: T-Mobile doesn't care what phone the card goes in, but other carriers
>> may care.
>
> the only one who cares is sprint, where the sim is tied to the phone
> because it uses a uicc sim.
>
> all other carriers don't give a shit.

Thanks for that information - but that hasn't been "my" experience.
I have had, over the years, Verizon, AT&T, and now, T-Mobile.

I left Verizon instantly, after complaining to the FCC because they upped
my 2-year contract when I had an early smartphone (Palm OS) replaced under
the insurance plan that I was paying for.

In those days, Verizon cared very much which phone you had.
-----
I left AT&T instantly, after complaining to the FCC about four or five
years later when they suddenly charged more for smart phones (but they
grandfathered my Blackberry until the clit broke which forced me to buy a
new phone).

So certainly in those days, AT&T cared tremendously what phone you had
because they charged *more* for smart phones.
-----
When I moved to T-Mobile, I didn't get the data plan and was very happy on
WiFi since I don't travel all that much, even though I had a smart phone.

Now I have the data plan, which, I think, is all that T-Mobile will carry
for a smart phone.
-----
A year or so ago, I helped a relative with her Verizon plan, and certainly
Verizon charges *different* rates for smart phones than they do for dumb
phones.

So, I "think" your data is slightly wrong (as was mine):
I think all three, Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile *today* charge more for the
cheapest possible smartphone plan than they do for the cheapest possible
dumbphone plan.

Which means, they *all* care (to some degree) what phone your SIM card goes
in. But, once we stay within categories (i.e., dumb or smart), then I think
you are correct - they don't care which phone your SIM card is in.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:49:35 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> BTDT. The bastards ALL said that, as if you could run apps on the
> external card.

Yup. Technically, under certain circumstances, you can; but realistically,
you can't.

They fooled me.

Funny thing too, was that I was not an Android novice.
The problem was that I only had high-end phones.
High end phones don't have this problem.

It's the low-end phones that have this problem.

On a low-end phone, the OS and bloatware take up much of the original 4GB
so, a 4GB phone is, effectively, a 1GB phone (and a 16GB phone is,
effectively, a 12GB phone).

The fact that the external SD card, effectively, can't be used for apps
matters not so much on the higher end phones as it does on the lower end
phones.

Once you jump to 32GB and 64GB, everything matters less, so, what I learned
from that effort is that it takes no brains to buy and use a high-end
phone, but it takes a *lot* of brains to choose a cost-effective low-end
phone because mistakes like this are deadly.

> BUT with Android 6 the external card CAN be used as an extensions of
> internal memory. Most of my apps are happy to run on the external card,
> but some (like the google shit) insists on staying in the internal
> memory. Still, the important stuff (like maps, for instance) is happy
> on the external card and I have a bit over 1GB empty on the internal
> memory to play with as well as 17GB on the 32GB external card.

Yes. Depending on your Android version, and depending on how the developer
configured the app, you "can" run "some" apps perfectly well on the
external SD card.

>> Such are the vagaries of how people make decisions.
>> (I'm Aspergers - so I make them more logically than emotionally.)
>
> Good for you! Have you found that it gives you more advantages than
> disadvantages or vice versa?

Advantage of me being Aspergers:
- I can handle an incredible amount of detail, and I can weigh that detail
extremely well to make extremely good technical decisions.

Disadvantage of me being Aspergers:
- I'm terrible at emotional-based decisions, because I look for the hard
logic in them (often where it doesn't exist).

Worse, I don't have the social skills to suffer fools well - so I have
immense difficulties understanding the kooky thought processes of some of
the people here on the iOS groups because they're just not at all logical.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:38:00 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> At the Google price of $300, the iPhone 6, at $550 is $250 more on a $300
>> phone, which is not double - but it's not far from double.
>
> that's the exception *because* *it's* *subsidized* and it's not all
> that comparable anyway.
>
> you keep snipping that the galaxy s7 is the same price as an iphone
> (actually a little more).

I knew you'd always harp on the fact that the phone is "subsidized" by
Google, and I'm ecstatic that Google subsidized the phone.

Let's not argue.
To you, this subsidy is a "bad thing".

To me, it makes the Nexus 5 a $300 phone, which is equivalent in
performance to the iPhone 6 which is a $550 phone.

I don't have the social skills to deal with your "logic", since you think a
subsidy is a bad thing while I am perfectly happy to have someone else eat
the bulk of the cost of the phone.

In the end, the iPhone 6 is a better phone for this kid because she wants
in on the Apple ecosystem, and that's all that matters "to her" since she
gets either phone for free anyway.

PS: She doesn't feel it's a bad thing that I "subsidized" the cost of her
Nexus 5 phone, and that the friend "subsidized" the cost of her new iPhone
6.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:59:46 +0100, David Taylor wrote:

> But the Moto G is years old. The current models are the G4 and G4+,
> replacing the G3. Compare them in the shop for yourself.

Thank you for bringing that up, as you are correct that the Moto-G is an
older model phone.

I will be buying a phone for another kid in August, where I'm sure this kid
wants in on the Apple Ecosystem, so, I will start comparing the best price
performance of the current Apple offerings with the Google offerings.

Like you, I suspect the *best* price:performance of the Android phones will
*still* kick Apple's price:performance into the gutter; but I'll await the
actual studies to make that a real conclusion.

PS: I'd be perfectly happy if Apple would subsidize a phone such that it
would compare with a subsidized Google phone price. I really would. I,
myself, would never buy an iOS phone for myself - but most of the people I
buy them for would *prefer* the Apple ecosystem.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:38:00 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> What I'm ignoring are all the overpriced Android phones.
>
> given that samsung phones outsell the nexus by a *huge* margin, it is
> by definition, *not* overpriced.

Fair enough.
Plenty of people are buying it.

In fact, Economics 101 dictates that the market will charge what it can
bear.

Remember, they actually *sold* the $1,000 "I am rich" iOS app (at least for
a short period of time) in the App Store.

Fools are always easily separated from their money.
It's the job of Marketing to make you value a name or a symbol or even a
color (i.e., "gold") more than pragmatics.

[nospam]

In article <nlu5o4$vu1$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > use a paper clip.
>
> Yep. But it's a *small* paper clip.

any normal paper clip works

the really huge paper clips won't, nor will plastic ones, for obvious
reasons.

> I told her *not* to use a sharp needle.

that works fine too

> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
> Can it?

no.

it's just a push lever.

> > the battery self-discharged, or the previous owner left it on and it
> > drained in a couple of days.
>
> Yeah. My only worry is that the battery is "bad" since she's ditching the
> Nexus 5 mainly because it was getting flaky on her with respect to battery
> life.

lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.

>
> >> Who needs to pay for anything?
> >
> > for apps that cost money.
>
> I have taught this child well.

doubtful

> She knows that Apple users pay more than twice as much, on average, on
> in-app purchases than do Android users. She knows what a whale is when it
> comes to games. And she knows that there is freeware for almost everything
> you need.

don't start that bullshit again.

> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
> that they can get for free.

not the same functionality, they don't.

> > and you end up with a shitty experience.
> > it's not like a buck or two is going to break the bank.
>
> We've been down that road.
>
> There's *nothing* you have, that I want, that I don't have for free
> already.

that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.

as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

> As you know from the stats, Apple users pay 2.5 times more (on average) on
> in-app purchases than do Android users, so, the entire "personality cult"
> or whatever you call it of the Apple ecosystem is geared toward nickle and
> diming Apple customers forever.

bullshit.

> Heck, you even have to rent your own data back, once you go over the puny
> limit they give you, as compared to what you can get for free on the cloud
> (not that I'd ever put any data on the cloud myself).

more bullshit.

your data is always yours, no rent involved.

> > nonsense.
> > the user puts apps wherever they want and they stays there.
>
> Then you know absolutely nothing about the average Apple user.

*you* know nothing about how apple products work.

nothing moves on its own.

> > what you call a single desktop is counterproductive. multiple
> > homescreens are very useful.
>
> Then you know absolutely nothing about desktop organization.

wrong

> > your homescreen is all folders.
>
> No it's not.

yes it is.

this is *your* screenshot of *your* homescreen:
<http://i.cubeupload.com/KxXVFt.jpg>

*all* folders.

> There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example.
> Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.

the dock is not the homescreen.

> > you know absolutely *nothing* about usability and insist on doing
> > things in the most difficult way possible
>
> I know where *all* my files and apps are, and guess what?
> I know where they go even before I put them there.
>

there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.

on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
are.

the computer can find exactly what i want far faster than any human
ever could.

> And guess what?
> I don't need to resort to the kluge of a search engine to find them.

there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.

a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.

> > where the hell did you get that idea?
> > the user always puts the icons where *they* want.
>
> Heh heh ... go on thinking that.

it's a fact

> > it's called ocd.
>
> It probably is.

it definitely is.

[nospam]

In article <nlu5v2$j2b$2...@dont-email.me>, David Taylor

<david-...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> >> you keep yapping about the moto g, which is in no way comparable to any
> >> current iphone. the moto g series is a low end phone for a low end
> >> price.
> >
> > I must agree with nospam that the Moto-G doesn't compare to any of the
> > Apple phones.
> >
> > I, myself have purchased the Nexus 5 for a kid who wanted an iPhone 6, and
> > a Moto-G for an adult who just wanted her first smart phone.
> >
> > Two different equations.
> > I agree that the Moto-G is not in the same category as the current iPhones.
>
> But the Moto G is years old. The current models are the G4 and G4+,
> replacing the G3. Compare them in the shop for yourself.

the g4/g4+ are in no way comparable to an iphone no matter how hard you
try to pretend they are.

the g4 has no fingerprint sensor. the g4+ does, but it has no nfc so it
can't do android pay. very dumb.

worse, the fingerprint sensor is where the home button normally would
be but it's not a home button. it's just a fingerprint sensor, so after
the phone is unlocked, it does nothing but sit there. also dumb.

the camera tops out at 1080p/30fps (iphones can do 4k/60fps).

it's also a cheap plastic case.

at the end of the day, it's a cheapo phone. that's why it costs less
than an iphone or samsung galaxy s7.

[nospam]

In article <nlu6r2$11pu$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> >> NOTE: T-Mobile doesn't care what phone the card goes in, but other carriers
> >> may care.
> >
> > the only one who cares is sprint, where the sim is tied to the phone
> > because it uses a uicc sim.
> >
> > all other carriers don't give a shit.
>
> Thanks for that information - but that hasn't been "my" experience.

your experience does not match reality.

you can swap sims among any compatible unlocked phone.

in fact, the carriers are legally *required* to allow that.

the only issue is if the phone lacks necessary rf bands, in which case
it may fall back to a slower link.

for instance, before t-mobile refarmed aws, if you didn't have a phone
with aws, it would end up using 2g instead of 3g. if a phone doesn't
have all lte bands then it might have limited lte coverage or drop to
3g.

in other words, it works but may be a bit slower.

phones these days have all the various bands so it doesn't matter
anymore, including lte.

only sprint locks the sim to the phone, but you can always get a new
sim and transfer it. you just have to contact sprint (or whatever
mvno).

[nospam]

In article <nlu7n6$1371$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> >> At the Google price of $300, the iPhone 6, at $550 is $250 more on a $300
> >> phone, which is not double - but it's not far from double.
> >
> > that's the exception *because* *it's* *subsidized* and it's not all
> > that comparable anyway.
> >
> > you keep snipping that the galaxy s7 is the same price as an iphone
> > (actually a little more).
>
> I knew you'd always harp on the fact that the phone is "subsidized" by
> Google, and I'm ecstatic that Google subsidized the phone.
>
> Let's not argue.
> To you, this subsidy is a "bad thing".

i didn't say it's good or bad.

i said it's why the nexus costs less.

someone *else* is paying for part of it.

the samsung galaxy s7 is not subsidized and costs about the same as an
iphone.

[nospam]

In article <nlu7tl$13l2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> PS: I'd be perfectly happy if Apple would subsidize a phone such that it
> would compare with a subsidized Google phone price. I really would. I,
> myself, would never buy an iOS phone for myself - but most of the people I
> buy them for would *prefer* the Apple ecosystem.

there's no need to reduce the price, given that apple can barely keep
up with demand.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:43:35 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

>> I asked her last night how she felt and she said "I thought I was never
>> going to get an iPhone"; so she really (really) wants in on the Apple
>> ecosystem!
>
> It's a status symbol. I assume that you refrained from yelling SHEEP!
> at her...

I agree with you.
You are female, so you *understand* things far better than we men, and, far
better than anyone with Aspergers ever will.

It's even worse than you mentioned because I gave her older sister the
iPhone 3 which was bought used on Craigslist so it was AT&T at the time
which was the only supplier as I recall. As a result of that marketing
decision, I had to jailbreak the iPhone 3 in order to use on T-Mobile since
I pay all their phone bills (long story). [My Aspergers kicks in when Jolly
Roger says an 8 year old can jailbreak a phone in 5 minutes - because I
can't understand how anyone could even "think" such a silly thing - since
it takes quite a long time just to figure out all the extremely specific
gotchas that are part of this process - where it's like saying anyone can
win a war in five minutes - it's that ridiculous a statement).

So I don't have the social tools to deal with people who have ridiculously
insane thought processes. You do. I don't. (Weren't you on the freeware
groups for years?)

Anyway, for her, she *always* wanted the iPhone. Period.
When I asked her why, she didn't know.

So, my assumption is simply that all the other kids have them.
I was a kid once. I understand that feeling.

I wore K-Mart sneakers when everyone else had Nike's but my parents would
never pay for Nike's so I had to join the track team to get my first pair
of Nike's. :)

PS: The fact that the school's track team 'subsidized' my free Nike
sneakers never bothered me one bit!

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 14:49:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

> cameras are a great example.
>
> tap the phone to the camera, a peer to peer wifi connection is
> automatically configured over nfc and photos transfer over wifi.
>
> no computer needed.

Thank you for taking the risk of answering the question, because I have NFC
(and essentially don't use it); so I won't chastise you for suggesting it
for photo transfer.

Me?

I'll just MMS or Email that photo thank you, but I do agree that if there
is no network available, then that photo will have to wait before it gets
to its recipient.

I probably could bluetooth the photo (which probably isn't much slower than
NFC anyway) if no network were available. I do that all the time from the
phone to the computer because it's so fast (just two taps and it transfers
in the background despite the fact you've never done it so you still think
it does so in the foreground).

But anyway, thanks for taking the risk of answering the question.

> another use is nfc stickers. you could have a sticker on your desk and
> auto-unlock your phone when you put it on your desk.

Um. OK. Thanks.

>> What are my alternatives to get that file if I don't have NFC?
>
> doing it hard way.

a. Using bluetooth is trivially easy (two taps despite you've never done it
so you insist it takes far more than that - but I've done it a thousand
times).
b. Mailing it is trivially easy (but harder than bluetooth).
c. MMS is trivially easy too (but still harder than bluetooth).

>> Remember, I have NFC on my own phone, so I can test out whatever you say,
>> so don't lie please.
>
> knock off the insults.

Fair enough.
I apologize.

> having nfc doesn't necessarily mean you have all possible features.

That's probably true.
I equate NFC in the same category that I equate a computer nowadays with a
firewire connection, or a computer with a serial port or a computer with an
IR port, etc.

Nice feature if you need it.
Useless otherwise.

But, I do thank you for taking the risk of answering the question, so I
hope my response was gentle.

[nospam]

In article <nlu8u3$15c3$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > cameras are a great example.
> >
> > tap the phone to the camera, a peer to peer wifi connection is
> > automatically configured over nfc and photos transfer over wifi.
> >
> > no computer needed.
>
> Thank you for taking the risk of answering the question, because I have NFC
> (and essentially don't use it); so I won't chastise you for suggesting it
> for photo transfer.
>
> Me?

i didn't say you. i said where nfc is very useful.

> I'll just MMS or Email that photo thank you, but I do agree that if there
> is no network available, then that photo will have to wait before it gets
> to its recipient.

you won't be mms'ing or emailing a photo from a camera no matter what
you do.

> I probably could bluetooth the photo (which probably isn't much slower than
> NFC anyway) if no network were available. I do that all the time from the
> phone to the computer because it's so fast (just two taps and it transfers
> in the background despite the fact you've never done it so you still think
> it does so in the foreground).

not from a camera, you won't, and bluetooth is not fast at all.

it's about the slowest possible way to transfer a file.

> But anyway, thanks for taking the risk of answering the question.
>
> > another use is nfc stickers. you could have a sticker on your desk and
> > auto-unlock your phone when you put it on your desk.
>
> Um. OK. Thanks.

it's useful.

> >> What are my alternatives to get that file if I don't have NFC?
> >
> > doing it hard way.
>
> a. Using bluetooth is trivially easy (two taps despite you've never done it
> so you insist it takes far more than that - but I've done it a thousand
> times).

i didn't say it takes more than two taps. stop lying.

i said bluetooth transfer is slow as hell, and it is.

> b. Mailing it is trivially easy (but harder than bluetooth).
> c. MMS is trivially easy too (but still harder than bluetooth).

none are as fast as numerous other ways, which you stubbornly refuse to
acknowledge that they exist.

with cameras, there is no email or mms. many cameras have nfc, which is
used to configure wifi so that the photos can be transferred over wifi.
why? because it's way the fuck faster than bluetooth can ever hope to
be.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:08 -0400, nospam wrote:

> i didn't say it's good or bad.
>
> i said it's why the nexus costs less.
>
> someone *else* is paying for part of it.
>
> the samsung galaxy s7 is not subsidized and costs about the same as an
> iphone.

Fair enough.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:08 -0400, nospam wrote:

> there's no need to reduce the price, given that apple can barely keep
> up with demand.

I know. It was wishful thinking.

In fact, I was given a couple of brand new iPads from my own family (who
subsidized the cost) simply because they knew I'd never buy them for
myself.

Half my family is on Apple products while the other half is on Android
products.

Mostly the females (for whatever reason) are on the Apple Ecosystem, while
the males are on the Android ecosystem.

I think all these cost and performance comparisons are somewhat
disingenuous because I suspect very few people will actually choose between
the ecosystems.

Me?
I give them as gifts. so, I have the luxury of choosing the ecosystem.

But most people prefer one ecosystem over the other, so, comparing a phone
in each ecosystem isn't really a fair comparison, unless cost is the *only*
issue, in which case, the inexpensive bottom-tier Andriod phones will
*always* be less expensive than the higher-end Apple or Android products.

So, really, the ecosystem determines everything.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:04 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the g4/g4+ are in no way comparable to an iphone no matter how hard you
> try to pretend they are.

I realize you're responding to David Taylor, but I will read this because
in August I myself will be looking to buy as a gift the best
price:performance phone I can for a kid.

> the g4 has no fingerprint sensor. the g4+ does, but it has no nfc so it
> can't do android pay. very dumb.

While this is important to you, I, myself, see zero value (actually
negative value) in the fingerprint sensor - and - nothing of import in the
NFC (which I have had for years and almost never use it - using bluetooth
instead to transfer a photo sans a network connection).

So, I hope you bring up more important criteria, such as:
a. Compute power, memory, speeds, etc.
b. Grapahical performance, displays, pixels, etc.
c. Radio comparisons (speeds, frequencies, standards, etc.)

If the main drawback, to you, is the lack of a fingerprint sensor and NFC,
then I can easily see David's point - although I have not, myself, compared
the phones yet.

> worse, the fingerprint sensor is where the home button normally would
> be but it's not a home button. it's just a fingerprint sensor, so after
> the phone is unlocked, it does nothing but sit there. also dumb.

There is zero value (to some people) in a fingerprint sensor.

I've had them for years on computers and never used them for example.

I'm not worried about thieves stealing my phone, especially as my name and
credit card information is *never* stored on the phone.

> the camera tops out at 1080p/30fps (iphones can do 4k/60fps).

I agree that, to many people, the quality of the camera is paramount, and,
in general, the Apple cameras are better than those I've seen on Android
(that's a general statement).

To me, if I *need* a camera, I have a Nikon SLR for that purpose.

> it's also a cheap plastic case.

I never cared much about the cases - but I do agree some phones just 'feel'
good in your hands. Sometimes esthetics and durability do count, although
most people put a case around the phone, so, the case is really what
protects the phone.

> at the end of the day, it's a cheapo phone. that's why it costs less
> than an iphone or samsung galaxy s7.

I realize you meant to disagree with David Taylor, but, you actually agreed
with him if all you can find that is different is that the less expensive
phone is missing fingerprint/NFC capabilities and that the plastic is less
durable and that the camera is less functional.

These are negatives, to be sure - but - at what cost do you gain:
a. A slightly better video camera
b. A fingerprint sensor that you may never use and may not even want
c. A NFC capability that you don't need (since you have bluetooth)

What's the difference in cost for those three "features"?

[nospam]

In article <nlua7m$17d9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

> > the g4/g4+ are in no way comparable to an iphone no matter how hard you
> > try to pretend they are.
>
> I realize you're responding to David Taylor, but I will read this because
> in August I myself will be looking to buy as a gift the best
> price:performance phone I can for a kid.

you should wait until mid-september. the various phone makers are
waiting to see what apple is going to do, rather than announce now.

> > the g4 has no fingerprint sensor. the g4+ does, but it has no nfc so it
> > can't do android pay. very dumb.
>
> While this is important to you, I, myself, see zero value (actually
> negative value) in the fingerprint sensor - and - nothing of import in the
> NFC (which I have had for years and almost never use it - using bluetooth
> instead to transfer a photo sans a network connection).

people typically unlock their phones 100 times a day.

those without fingerprint sensors generally have a weak passcode or no
passcode because they unlock so often.

those with a fingerprint sensor generally have a much stronger passcode
(or *a* passcode) because unlocking is easy.

at the end of the day, the phone is more secure.

> So, I hope you bring up more important criteria, such as:
> a. Compute power, memory, speeds, etc.
> b. Grapahical performance, displays, pixels, etc.
> c. Radio comparisons (speeds, frequencies, standards, etc.)
>
> If the main drawback, to you, is the lack of a fingerprint sensor and NFC,
> then I can easily see David's point - although I have not, myself, compared
> the phones yet.
>
> > worse, the fingerprint sensor is where the home button normally would
> > be but it's not a home button. it's just a fingerprint sensor, so after
> > the phone is unlocked, it does nothing but sit there. also dumb.
>
> There is zero value (to some people) in a fingerprint sensor.

those people are ignorant.

> I've had them for years on computers and never used them for example.

computers are a completely different use case.

you can type a long alphanumeric password on a computer keyboard very
quickly. try doing that on a phone.

and some laptops do have fingerprint readers.

> I'm not worried about thieves stealing my phone, especially as my name and
> credit card information is *never* stored on the phone.

you should be *very* worried because a phone has all sorts of very
personal information on it.

and even with android pay (or apple pay) no credit card numbers are
stored. android/apple pay are *far* more secure than swipe/dipping
cards.

> > the camera tops out at 1080p/30fps (iphones can do 4k/60fps).
>
> I agree that, to many people, the quality of the camera is paramount, and,
> in general, the Apple cameras are better than those I've seen on Android
> (that's a general statement).
>
> To me, if I *need* a camera, I have a Nikon SLR for that purpose.

that won't fit in your back pocket.

> > it's also a cheap plastic case.
>
> I never cared much about the cases - but I do agree some phones just 'feel'
> good in your hands. Sometimes esthetics and durability do count, although
> most people put a case around the phone, so, the case is really what
> protects the phone.

everything counts.

motorola cut the costs by using a cheap plastic case.

they also cut costs by removing numerous other features.

> > at the end of the day, it's a cheapo phone. that's why it costs less
> > than an iphone or samsung galaxy s7.
>
> I realize you meant to disagree with David Taylor, but, you actually agreed
> with him if all you can find that is different is that the less expensive
> phone is missing fingerprint/NFC capabilities and that the plastic is less
> durable and that the camera is less functional.

stop lying. nobody would consider what i wrote to be agreeing with him.

the differences between the phones are major which is why the
difference in price is major.

> These are negatives, to be sure - but - at what cost do you gain:
> a. A slightly better video camera

a *much* better camera.

> b. A fingerprint sensor that you may never use and may not even want

that sensor is used 100x/day in typical use.

> c. A NFC capability that you don't need (since you have bluetooth)

nfc and bluetooth are two *totally* different technologies used for two
*totally* different things.

> What's the difference in cost for those three "features"?

quite a bit.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:02 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
>> Can it?
>
> no.
>
> it's just a push lever.

Thanks for that information.
She found a small paper clip and when she pulled out the SIM card, it was
Verizon branded.

> lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.

Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.

I'm so happy for her, because she *always wanted* an iPhone!
Now she has it.

It will be interesting to talk to her about it in six months to a year,
where she can compare the two ecosystems.

I suspect she will "notice" a few things, but that she'll be happier with
the Apple Ecosystem.

>> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
>> that they can get for free.
>
> not the same functionality, they don't.

Everything in that statement depends on the details.
I've known people who pay for Windows screenshot programs (instead of
pressing "print screen")
Or for Twain scanners (instead of using IrfanView freeware).
Or for DVD burner software (instead of using ImgBurn freeware).

So, I know of people pay for stuff that they can get for free.
The devil is in the details.

> that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.
> as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

You are welcome to suggest a functionality that I actually need that I
don't already have for free.

Remember, I have USGS topo map breadcrumbing programs for free; I have
wifie graphical scanners for free; I have offline roadmap apps with Navtech
and Google maps for free; I have automatic call recorders for free; I have
VPN apps for free; I even have VPN servers for free; I have Usenet services
entirely for free; I have second-phone line apps for free; I have turned my
iPad into a speakerphone that acts exactly like a real phone for free; I
have fully-customizable keyboards for free (where I can define my own
keys!); I have file system explorers for free; I have file directors for
free; I have wardriving scanners for free; I have network scanners for
free; I have non-cloud app archivers for free; I have pcap and wireshark
network sniffers for free; I have contact list optimizers for free; I have
the ability to turn off app access to whatever I want for free; and I have
any launcher I desire for free.

What do you pay for, that I'd want, that I don't already have, for free?

> this is *your* screenshot of *your* homescreen:
> <http://i.cubeupload.com/KxXVFt.jpg>
>
> *all* folders.

Except where it's not. :)

Everything is one tap away - such as the voice recorder, or two taps away,
such as the web browser.

And everything is in the same spot on this iPad as every other iPad I own.
And even in the same folder names on Android.

It's all my choice. Folders or app icons on the desktop.

You'll notice that I can fit on a single desktop screen even folders of
apps I'm testing (such as the artist apps or the dashcam apps), which when
I'm done testing, will simple be an app inside some other folder.

>> There are the most-used apps in the dock, for example.
>> Besides, it's my choice to use folders because they work well.
>
> the dock is not the homescreen.

Which is a mere technicality when you have a single pane in the homescreen.

> there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.

That means you don't understand the system.

What you just said was akin to saying:
a. There's no fucking way you can know where all your tools are.
b. There's no fucking way you can know where all your office supplies are.
c. There's no fucking way you can know where all your foodstuffs are.
etc.

It just mean you don't understand the file system, which, I guess, is why
you misunderstand everything that has to do with it.

> on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
> not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
> are.

You're being disingenuous.

If you asked me where my HOSTS file is on Windows or Linux, I knwo where it
is because I use the hosts file.

If you asked me where some temporary file used for DNS cache is, then I
wouldn't know (nor care) where that is because I don't use that DNS cache
temporary file.

If you asked me where a certain memo was, I would tell you it's in
c:\data\doc\memos\
Just as if you asked for my tax records from five years ago, it would be
in:
c:\data\finance\tax\tax2010

That's on *any* computer in my entire household, mind you, since they *all*
have the same organization (no matter which Windows or Linux version they
may be).

Same idea with Android and iOS although the limitations are vastly more
severe on iOS and not that much better on Android.

> there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.
> a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.

You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
stuff.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 15:38:06 -0400, nospam wrote:

> you can swap sims among any compatible unlocked phone.

True and not true, depending on the details.

You can't buy the cheapest cellphone plan (for dumb phones) and then put
the SIM into a smart phone, and get away with that for long.

It's a marketing gimmick, I agree.

But, other than having the phone match the plan, I agree with you that the
major carriers don't care anymore what phone you put the SIM card in (as
long as the phone matches the plan).

[nospam]

In article <nlubm4$19mq$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> >> I don't know, but I would "suspect" that a needle can damage the phone.
> >> Can it?
> >
> > no.
> >
> > it's just a push lever.
>
> Thanks for that information.
> She found a small paper clip and when she pulled out the SIM card, it was
> Verizon branded.

what did you expect to find? it's a verizon phone so obviously it will
have a verizon sim.

> > lithium ion batteries don't like being fully discharged.
>
> Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.

it'll probably be a few days. it'll likely ship mon/tue and arrive by
thursday.

> I'm so happy for her, because she *always wanted* an iPhone!
> Now she has it.
>
> It will be interesting to talk to her about it in six months to a year,
> where she can compare the two ecosystems.
>
> I suspect she will "notice" a few things, but that she'll be happier with
> the Apple Ecosystem.

probably.

> >> Most importantly, she knows that a *lot* of people pay for functionality
> >> that they can get for free.
> >
> > not the same functionality, they don't.
>
> Everything in that statement depends on the details.
> I've known people who pay for Windows screenshot programs (instead of
> pressing "print screen")
> Or for Twain scanners (instead of using IrfanView freeware).
> Or for DVD burner software (instead of using ImgBurn freeware).

those apps do more.

> So, I know of people pay for stuff that they can get for free.
> The devil is in the details.

the details are that free apps generally do much less than paid apps
and are of a lesser quality.

there are a few exceptions but not very many.

> > that's because you are satisfied with shitty products.
> > as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.
>
> You are welcome to suggest a functionality that I actually need that I
> don't already have for free.

you live in the dark ages, doing things in the most difficult way
possible.

>
> It's all my choice. Folders or app icons on the desktop.

the problem is you think that's how everyone else should do it.

each person gets to decide what *they* want.

>
> > there's no fucking way you can know where all of your files are.
>
> That means you don't understand the system.

much better than you ever will.

> What you just said was akin to saying:
> a. There's no fucking way you can know where all your tools are.
> b. There's no fucking way you can know where all your office supplies are.
> c. There's no fucking way you can know where all your foodstuffs are.
> etc.

no

i don't have 1 million tools, office supplies or foodstuffs.

i do have 1 million files, and that's on *one* hard drive.

> It just mean you don't understand the file system, which, I guess, is why
> you misunderstand everything that has to do with it.

not only do i understand the file system much better than you ever will
but i also understand its limitations, which are numerous.

> > on my hard drive right now, there are well over 1 *million* files. it's
> > not possible for *anyone* to know all of what's there and where they
> > are.
>
> You're being disingenuous.

nope.

>
> > there's nothing kludgey about a search engine.
> > a computer can find stuff far faster than humans can.
>
> You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
> systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
> kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
> stuff.

nope.

they provide ways to go beyond the limitations of the file system.

[nospam]

In article <nlubpt$19rf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > you can swap sims among any compatible unlocked phone.
>
> True and not true, depending on the details.

it's true.

the part you snipped is that they're legally *required* to allow
swapping.

> You can't buy the cheapest cellphone plan (for dumb phones) and then put
> the SIM into a smart phone, and get away with that for long.

yes you can.

what you're referring to is that some carriers have different plans for
dumbphones and smartphones, so if you upgrade your phone, you are
*required* to also upgrade your plan accordingly.

if you don't, you're in violation of their terms of service and they
will upgrade you when they detect the change.

other carriers don't have separate plans, so there's nothing to change.

either way, it's a *completely* separate issue.

[Your Name]

In article <nlu4eh$u2h$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks
<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 12:44:22 -0400, nospam wrote:
> >
> > you're ignoring all other examples that prove you wrong.

>
> What I'm ignoring are all the overpriced Android phones.

> That's true.
>
> When I'm *buying* a phone, I put in the bucket *all* the phones available
> at that time and I pick the *best* price:performance of Android to compare
> against the best price:performance of Apple.
>
> If you want to compare the worst price:performance of Android against the
> best price:performance of Apple, then yes, you will come up with totally
> different results.
>
> Why can I agree with you - but you can't understand my simple comparison
> (when everyone else has no problem understanding my comparison metrics)?

Because, as usual, you're comparing Apples with lemons. Apple's
products are pretty much the same as actual competitor products.

If you want a cheap 'n' nasty smartphone one has just been released in
India that costs only $4, so that's even cheaper than the Nexus 5.

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 12:25 PM, Aardvarks wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:49:35 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> BTDT. The bastards ALL said that, as if you could run apps on the
>> external card.
>
> Yup. Technically, under certain circumstances, you can; but realistically,
> you can't.

There was an apps2SD app, which worked a lot of the time. And some apps
ASKED you if you wanted to put them on the card. The bad news is that
the BLU phone called the INTERNAL memory "sdcard" so you had to cope in
some way.

> They fooled me.
>
> Funny thing too, was that I was not an Android novice.
> The problem was that I only had high-end phones.
> High end phones don't have this problem.
>
> It's the low-end phones that have this problem.
>
> On a low-end phone, the OS and bloatware take up much of the original 4GB
> so, a 4GB phone is, effectively, a 1GB phone (and a 16GB phone is,
> effectively, a 12GB phone).
>
> The fact that the external SD card, effectively, can't be used for apps
> matters not so much on the higher end phones as it does on the lower end
> phones.
>
> Once you jump to 32GB and 64GB, everything matters less, so, what I learned
> from that effort is that it takes no brains to buy and use a high-end
> phone, but it takes a *lot* of brains to choose a cost-effective low-end
> phone because mistakes like this are deadly.
>
>> BUT with Android 6 the external card CAN be used as an extensions of
>> internal memory. Most of my apps are happy to run on the external card,
>> but some (like the google shit) insists on staying in the internal
>> memory. Still, the important stuff (like maps, for instance) is happy
>> on the external card and I have a bit over 1GB empty on the internal
>> memory to play with as well as 17GB on the 32GB external card.
>
> Yes. Depending on your Android version, and depending on how the developer
> configured the app, you "can" run "some" apps perfectly well on the
> external SD card.

A6 is SOOOO much better at this than the apps/functions that SOMETIMES
allowed you to do this.

>>> Such are the vagaries of how people make decisions.
>>> (I'm Aspergers - so I make them more logically than emotionally.)
>>
>> Good for you! Have you found that it gives you more advantages than
>> disadvantages or vice versa?
>
> Advantage of me being Aspergers:
> - I can handle an incredible amount of detail, and I can weigh that detail
> extremely well to make extremely good technical decisions.
>
> Disadvantage of me being Aspergers:
> - I'm terrible at emotional-based decisions, because I look for the hard
> logic in them (often where it doesn't exist).

Do you find it difficult to tear yourself away from the task at hand in
order to deal with something else? Hubby is like this. It may take him
30 seconds to realize that I'm talking to him. He shouldn't drive any
more -- he's solving problems in his head and ignoring the outside
world. When I come into a room I have to make small sounds indicating
my existence, gradually increasing in volume. If I just walk into a
room and say something he'll jump inches. If he walks into a room and
finds me there unexpectedly he likewise jumps. Tremendous focus, which
is a double-edged sword.

> Worse, I don't have the social skills to suffer fools well - so I have
> immense difficulties understanding the kooky thought processes of some of
> the people here on the iOS groups because they're just not at all logical.

Indeed. We do try, though :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
Salesmen welcome -- dog food is expensive

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 01:37 PM, Aardvarks wrote:

> Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.

The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would
dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to
fit for free. I chose the free option. They have a tool, but I suspect
you could do it yourself.

> You'll notice that I can fit on a single desktop screen even folders of
> apps I'm testing (such as the artist apps or the dashcam apps), which when
> I'm done testing, will simple be an app inside some other folder.

How do you get "folders"? I think I might like that rather than 6 pages
of home-screen apps which are a nuisance to arrange and remember where I
put stuff. Only 4x4 icons/page (plus 4 in the tray along with the
'apps' button), which is annoying. Different launcher, perhaps?

I normally hate hierarchies -- I like to see everything at once -- but
I'd be willing to use folders if *I* designed them. I really hate
trying to guess where somebody else put something when I only use the
device every few months, which is why my windows[95] desktop was quite
crowded when it was my main computer

> You missed the entire philosophical point of why I believe operating
> systems from Apple/Google/Microsoft/Canonical, etc. provide the user with
> kluge after kluge after kluge after kluge just so the user can find their
> stuff.

Try linux -- The penguin will let you lose or destroy your stuff at will
and will laugh at your tears!

[The Real Bev]

On 07/10/2016 01:03 PM, Aardvarks wrote:

> Mostly the females (for whatever reason) are on the Apple Ecosystem, while
> the males are on the Android ecosystem.

It makes sense to use whatever system your Resident Technical Consultant
uses. I was just dragged into Slackware 14.2 and am now being dragged
into 14.2 64-bit, which is a much bigger change. Nonetheless, I'm sure
I'll be a lot happier when this next update is finished. Fortunately I
have lots of partitions to play with.

OTOH, I'm the Resident Android Consultant, which means that hubby just
doesn't want to be bothered with something he never really uses.

[nospam]

In article <nlusfg$s1v$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Thanks for that information. T-Mobile said it would take 7 days to get the
> > SIM card so she'll have that long to play with her new iPhone 6.
>
> The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would
> dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to
> fit for free. I chose the free option. They have a tool, but I suspect
> you could do it yourself.

next time, go to a different store.

nano sims are actually slightly thinner, although it may not matter in
some phones. if it doesn't now, it might in a future phone and you'll
need yet another new sim.

they also don't dupe it. sims cannot be duped. they activate a new sim
and the old one gets tossed. it takes less than a minute.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:04:21 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> There was an apps2SD app, which worked a lot of the time. And some apps
> ASKED you if you wanted to put them on the card. The bad news is that
> the BLU phone called the INTERNAL memory "sdcard" so you had to cope in
> some way.

I rarely give up on a technical challenge to make something cheap work, but
I entirely gave up on 4GB phones as a result of this battle. There is, in
fact, only one of those "gift phones" left in the extended family - where I
think this Nexus 5 is gonna go to replace!

The fantastic lesson I learned, as previously stated, was that it takes no
brains whatsoever to make a high end phone work, while making a low end
phone work takes TONS of brains. Luckily you seem to have that.

> A6 is SOOOO much better at this than the apps/functions that SOMETIMES
> allowed you to do this.

One Apple "thing" that the iOS folks have over the Android ones is that
they can update "most" of their equipment to the latest operating system.

Meanwhile, if you're lucky, you can upgrade your Android - but most likely
not if it's as old as my S3 is, for example - and even then - not without
more difficulty than it's worth.

Luckily, 16GB (aka 12GB in reality) is just fine for most things that I do
because I use file redirectors and I have a well-designed hierarchy on the
app card so I can find stuff.

For example, I have some apps which don't have the option to store stuff on
the external SD card - but no problem. I have a file redirector that simply
moves app-specific files constantly from the internal sdcard to the
external sdcard. Dunno exactly how that works (maybe a daemon? ... dunno) -
but it works so that's what matters.

It's like what Adobe Distiller used to do:
a. Put app-specific output file in a certain app-specific directory
b. Moments later it's moved (redirected) to where you really wanted it

Try that trick on iOS! :)

> Do you find it difficult to tear yourself away from the task at hand in
> order to deal with something else? Hubby is like this.

Yup. In spades.
Aspergers are great for "big battles" because nothing sways them from what
they're working on, whether that's machine gunning the enemy or trying to
make sense out of nospam's comments (both of which take about the same
amount of concentration).

But little things, like doing the bills and going to that appointment that
you forgot about pale in comparison to the task at hand!

I suspect half this newsgroup are aspies!

> It may take him 30 seconds to realize that I'm talking to him.

Yup. Focus on the task at hand. That's why Aspies can get so much done that
is *technical* (because they're so deeply involved with the data!). Wha?
huh? Oh. the wifey was telling me I missed my appointment by an hour. Oh
well, that's why they're all "pencilled in", heh heh heh ...

Your husband sounds like a classic aspie - although - there is a wide
spectrum, and Aspergers is no longer in the DSM, so, it's a colloquial use
of the word at the moment.

> He shouldn't drive any
> more -- he's solving problems in his head and ignoring the outside
> world.

Well, the good news is that Aspie's create a lot because they know so much
about technology, so, you should get a Google self-driving car and support
your local Aspie in Mountainview (not far from where I am).

> When I come into a room I have to make small sounds indicating
> my existence, gradually increasing in volume. If I just walk into a
> room and say something he'll jump inches. If he walks into a room and
> finds me there unexpectedly he likewise jumps. Tremendous focus, which
> is a double-edged sword.

He's DEEEP in thought. Even if he's just typing a Usenet post - he's deep
in thought, with a hundred thoughts curled up in series in his head - each
of which has to serially pop off the stack - where - if you disturb this
carefully aligned thought process !WHAM! It vaporizes in an instant!

Yup. He had all these happy thoughts, swirling in an airplane landing
pattern in his head, all the thoughts landing on paper, one by one, in the
traffic pattern he had so carefully controlled - and then WHAM! You came in
like a thunderstorm - and blew all those thoughts away in an instant!

No more blissfully happy Aspie. Nope. Nosiree. Very unhappy aspie who just
lost all those thoughts. Just like that.

> Indeed. We do try, though :-)

You have far better social skills for dealing with unreasonable people than
I do. Luckily, they invented killfiles for people like me. Whew! A
lifesafer.

[Aardvarks]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 18:23:58 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would
> dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to
> fit for free. I chose the free option. They have a tool, but I suspect
> you could do it yourself.

Funny you mention that, because I have been through the exact experience.
If you call the 611 T-Mobile people, they have no vested interest in
selling you the $15 card - but the store *can't* give the card to you for
free (they have to buy them - they told me).

So, I too have had them cut down a card to size after hearing their
disclaimers that they might ruin the card (they didn't).

However, I have learned that the phone is the best way to get *free* stuff
from T-Mobile. So, I got the card for free on the second try.

On the first call, they told me to go down to T-Mobile but on the second
call, I preempted that with a cockamamie story, and they said they'd send
her a free nano SIM card (of course, they got the address wrong - I just
found out - but hey - someone is gonna get that free Nanosim card!).

> How do you get "folders"? I think I might like that rather than 6 pages
> of home-screen apps which are a nuisance to arrange and remember where I
> put stuff. Only 4x4 icons/page (plus 4 in the tray along with the
> 'apps' button), which is annoying. Different launcher, perhaps?

On Android, any decent launcher will create empty folders at will (just
like real operating systems do), but on some Android launchers and on the
primitive iOS launcher, you artificially create a folder using a cockamamie
process of merging one app on top of the other.

That creates a folder of what seems like an arbitrary name (which you'll
change anyway), but whose name comes from the seemingly arbitrary
"category" of the app in the app store, as defined by some app developer
who thinks that her app is the greatest gift to mankind so she classifies
it in the strangest categories.

Once you've created the folder though, it's yours to rename at will. You
just can't *empty* it or the Apple God will instantly take it to the Apple
heaven way up in the Apple sky.

> I normally hate hierarchies -- I like to see everything at once -- but
> I'd be willing to use folders if *I* designed them. I really hate
> trying to guess where somebody else put something when I only use the
> device every few months, which is why my windows[95] desktop was quite
> crowded when it was my main computer

Oh my. You have the "classic" problem - which everyone has - but most
people just punt and "just give up".

On mobile devices, you can't have hierarchies in the real sense of the
term, although, somehow (magically?) I've managed to get TWO (yup. 2)
levels of hierarchy on the kids' iPad. How I did that, even I don't know,
but it only happened once - and I can show you a screenshot of a folder
within a folder on an iPad.

But, other than that one fluke, you get one (yup, one) level deep, which is
basically a folder.

Now I'm gonna let you in on a big secret. Shhhhhh. Don't tell nobody - y'
hear? This is all under FriendDA. Y'understand?

The secret, it to *think* before you make those folders!
Yup. I know. Thinking ahead of time is anathema to most mobile phone users.
But think you do.

And here's the next secret. Sshhhhh. <low whisper> You classify things by
what they *do* (not by their silly brand name or the last time you
installed it).

There it is.
That's the secret to organizing a desktop.

A folder for everything (that you do) and everything in its folder.

What you *do* are "verb" things.
You "browse". You "mail". You "shop". You "map", etc.

Let's be clear on one thing though... which is that what you actually name
the folders is entirely unimportant as long as it makes sense to
you.

Now, I'm gonna tell you something else. What you "do" on a iPhone is the
same stuff you do on Android. Yup. You "communicate". You "edit". You
"archive". etc.

Guess what? You do all that same stuff on Windows.
And, get this! You do all that same stuff on Linux.
And, oh, yup. Even on the Mac you do all that same stuff.

So, the point is that you make a hierarchy that fits YOUR NEEDS (what you
name things is totally up to you). The point is that:
a. Organize folders in a meaningful hierarchy to you!
b. Organize them by what the app *does* (never by the app name!)
c. Change and modify as your needs dictate.

While you can't hope to organize on iOS as well as you can on Android, you
can still do it even with the primitive iOS launcher.

With a modern launcher such as Nova, here's my organization on my cell
phone snapped just now - so I didn't clean it up a single bit for you:
http://i.cubeupload.com/1xQJe6.png

Notice everything I need is a click or two away.

Android makes organizing a desktop about a billion times easier though, so
if you're stuck on iOS, you're extremely limited in what you can do.

PS: I bluetoothed that screenshot from Android to my laptop, and guess
what? Despite what nospam and Jolly Roger keep spouting, they've never once
done it 'cuz it did it in the background and it took two taps to do it.
Heh heh ...

> Try linux -- The penguin will let you lose or destroy your stuff at will
> and will laugh at your tears!

Heh heh ... I use Linux all the time. In fact, I love that iOS works well
with Linux such that there is never a need for the iTunes kluge.

PS: You'll almost never see anyone else show their desktop on this
newsgroup. You know why? They're all big talkers - but they're embarrassed
at how *messy* and disorganized their desktops really are. I do realize
that mine isn't perfect and if folks want, they can shoot at it all they
want, but if they're not willing to show theirs at the same time they're
shooting at mine, they're just disingenuous cowards.

Here's a diagram of sorts of my organizational look and feel on Android:
http://i.cubeupload.com/lL1L7l.png

[nospam]

In article <nlv05i$4c3$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Aardvarks

<aard...@a.b.c.com> wrote:

>
> > The T-Mobile store gave me a choice -- buy a nanoSIM for $15 (they would
> > dupe my current full-size one) or let them clip off my full-size one to
> > fit for free. I chose the free option. They have a tool, but I suspect
> > you could do it yourself.
>
> Funny you mention that, because I have been through the exact experience.
> If you call the 611 T-Mobile people, they have no vested interest in
> selling you the $15 card - but the store *can't* give the card to you for
> free (they have to buy them - they told me).

flat out lie.

if you're activating new service, they'll give you a sim for free, as
well as if you need to switch sizes for an existing account.

otherwise, it's not free.

[Aardvarks]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 02:26:58 +0000 (UTC), Aardvarks wrote:

> Here's a diagram of sorts of my organizational look and feel on Android:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/lL1L7l.png

BTW, I started with a simple triangle, and it grew over time. :)

The point is that with a modern launcher, you can put the folders and icons
*anywhere* on any grid whatsoever. You can have huge folders or small
folders with as many icons as you want.

Instead of a triangle, you can have a circle of icons. Or concentric
circles of icons. You can have any amount of white space between the
folders. You can size them. You can shape the folders (I like circles - but
a folder can be other shapes too).

It's all up to you.

On Windows, I also have everything organized by what you "do", not by brand
name.
- archivers (e.g., IZarc)
- browsers (e.g., Tor Browser Bundle)
- cleaners (e.g., Ccleaner)
- databases (e.g., Google Earth)
- editors (e.g., Paint.NET)
- finance (e.g., Turbotax)
- games (e.g., Steam for the kids)
etc.

BTW, if organizing by brand name makes sense to you, then that's OK.
The only thing that matters is that you organize.
I personally think organizing by brand name makes little sense most of the
time (which is interesting - because everything is organized by brand name
in Windows).

However, sometimes it makes sense.

In fact, since Google apps are problematic in terms of ensuring you're
logged out of their spyware, I only recently added a "Google" folder, which
contains all the google-branded apps on the phone (so that I can tap them,
one by one, to ensure I'm logged out of them all).
http://i.cubeupload.com/htUTlB.png

But in general, things are organized by what I do.

For example, I "roadmap":
http://i.cubeupload.com/rsbrMI.png

And I outdoormap:
http://i.cubeupload.com/a1wrPJ.png

PS: That's all fully functional *freeware*! With excellent offline maps,
whether they're USGS topo maps or professional roadmaps (e.g., not OSM
which stinks in many cases compared to decent road maps).

PSS: And, despite nospam constantly saying it's too slow, I bluetoothed
those screenshots to my laptop by tapping twice (once to choose bluetooth
and once to send to the laptop) and it sent them before I finished this
sentence. Heh heh ...