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Chevy Volt: Fox News debunks itself
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JAB
Mar 29, 2012, 10:36:38 PM3/29/12
to
Fox News Debunks Right-Wing Lies About Chevy Volt: It’s ‘An
Anti-Terrorist Weapon’ And ‘The Safest Car On The Road’
It’s one of the most remarkable interviews ever seen on Fox News.
Yesterday, a conservative guest debunked all the destructive myths
their pundits having been perpetuating, decrying their “fetish for
demonizing the Volt.”
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/03/27/451932/fox-news-debunks-right-wing-lies-about-chevy-volt-anti-terrorist-weapon-safest-car-on-the-road/?mobile=nc
Anti-Terrorist Weapon’ And ‘The Safest Car On The Road’
It’s one of the most remarkable interviews ever seen on Fox News.
Yesterday, a conservative guest debunked all the destructive myths
their pundits having been perpetuating, decrying their “fetish for
demonizing the Volt.”
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2012/03/27/451932/fox-news-debunks-right-wing-lies-about-chevy-volt-anti-terrorist-weapon-safest-car-on-the-road/?mobile=nc
Buzz
Mar 30, 2012, 7:03:49 AM3/30/12
to
Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
From the interview:
"There is a price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
According to Chevy, the starting price for the Volt, after the John Q.
Public's $7,500 gift is $31.645. Chevy says the Cruze costs $16,800.
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car/
http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car/
$31,645 less 20% is $25, 316. That's still more than 50% MORE than
the Cruze.
So why, do you think, does Spieckerman make such a grossly false
statement like that? Surely, a deep, open minded thinker like yourself
caught the huge whopper of a lie and have already pondered the
reason(s), no?
Dave Head
Mar 30, 2012, 11:49:45 AM3/30/12
to
consumers as part of the overall savings in owning a Volt.
Buzz
Mar 30, 2012, 12:00:54 PM3/30/12
to
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:49:45 -0400, Dave Head <rall...@att.net>
wrote:
Possibly. But that's not what he said.
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Compare-Cars/329463/Into/Compare
Even for someone who has the perfect situation and never has to go
more than 25-30 miles a trip, it's going to take a long time to make
up $20,000.
But, if he's using the same math that he used to fabricate the 20%
figure, perhaps a Volt will actually generate revenue for a proud
owner!
wrote:
http://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Compare-Cars/329463/Into/Compare
Even for someone who has the perfect situation and never has to go
more than 25-30 miles a trip, it's going to take a long time to make
up $20,000.
But, if he's using the same math that he used to fabricate the 20%
figure, perhaps a Volt will actually generate revenue for a proud
owner!
Dave Head
Mar 30, 2012, 12:25:02 PM3/30/12
to
the 20% savings. I think the Volt was listing for something like
$41K, so the 20% would have been $8400. Then, tale the $7500 out of
$41K and you get $33,500. Take $8,400 out of $33,500 and you get
$25,100. So, you only have to save $25,100 - $16,800 = $7,300 of fuel
savings.
What's a Chevy Cruise get for mileage? 35? So, to go 100 miles in a
cruse should cost about 3 gallons, or $12. Going 100 miles in a Volt
should cost about 30 KwH which, around here, at 8 1/2 cents per KwH,
is $2.55. So, for each 100 miles driven segment, the Volt will save
$9.45.
$7,300 divided by $9.45 is 722 100 mile drives, or 72,200 miles of
driving on electricity. If the car lasts 200,000 miles, that means
that only 36.1% of the driving would have to be electric.
Of course, there's a battery replacement in there somewhere. OK, we
can figure by the time that battery replacement is needed, the Cruise
is going to be at least nearing the requirement to replace its engine,
because it'll be a serious oil burner by then most likely. And, we
have to figure in oil changes every 7,500 miles for the Cruise, at
maybe $40 - $60 each. Not much, but maybe about another $1K expense
that the Volt will have much less of, since the engine doesn't run all
that much.
Oh, and the Cruise likely has a timing belt. 2 - 3 timing belt
replacements at $400 each is probably another $1K or so that the Volt
will have 0 or 1 timing belt replacements, since the engine would run
so little.
Anyway, I think a 20% reduction in the price of a Volt might put it on
a par with the Cruise, depending on how you figure it, and how many of
the expenses you account for.
Dave K
Mar 31, 2012, 1:04:35 PM3/31/12
to
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
It was not Obama that caused the volt, and it is not a bad thing.
It is interesting as another facet of, "eating your own." The guy
is a FOX fan, and a fan of those on FOX (wondering)and you are not
able to see the message because he is not telling the story you want
to hear.
Talking about "Slammed Shut!"
--
"Food for the mind is like food for the body:
the inputs are never the same as the outputs."
Marshall McLuhan
Message has been deleted
Buzz
Apr 7, 2012, 7:14:04 PM4/7/12
to
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:25:02 -0400, Dave Head <rall...@att.net>
Heh, even doing all the mental gymnastics to make "we really only need
where I was, taking his statement as it was stated.
that you're 20% off?)
And, going 100 miles in a Cruze will require 3 stops to recharge (hey,
you're the one comparing the all electric to the all gas). So, I guess
you have to figure a prefect panacea where every thirty miles, there
is a convenient charging station that charges the same amount as the
home electric rate (perhaps there are green folks out there who have
installed the charging stations and provide the electricity FREE, in
order to save the galaxy, who knows).
So, let's look at my last trip. Just for giggles, let's say that it
was an even 300 miles, one way. We left Friday (Spring Break Friday)
and had to first make it through Atlanta. ANY Friday afternoon's
traffic is bad. Spring Break Friday was ridiculous.
It took two hours to go the first 60 miles. The rest was a breeze.
Had we been in a Volt, we wouldn't have made it TO downtown Atlanta
before needing to stop for 10 hours (according to Chevy) to charge it.
Even with the bad traffic at the beginning, we would have been AT the
coast before the Volt was ready to start off on it's 2nd 30 mile
segment.
So, had we bought a Volt to save the planet (and supposedly, money),
we would have arrived at the beach ~100 hours later (10 30 mile
segments). That would have put us there just in time for dinner on
Tuesday. But uh-oh, that would mean that to get back home at this time
today, we'd have to rush through dinner and start back...and still be
late. Hmmm, I'm betting that even if I had invited a green friend to
go to the beach for 8 days with us, they would have been pretty
peeved, huh?
So, all of your jumbled math comparing all gas to all electric is
really quite silly. Why make such an effort to jumble things around
and pretend that alternate realities exist? 'just to support the
Volt? Really? Why, exactly?
each 30 miles in this perfect little world you've created in your
mind?
>
>Of course, there's a battery replacement in there somewhere. OK, we
>can figure by the time that battery replacement is needed, the Cruise
>is going to be at least nearing the requirement to replace its engine,
>because it'll be a serious oil burner by then most likely. And, we
>have to figure in oil changes every 7,500 miles for the Cruise, at
>maybe $40 - $60 each. Not much, but maybe about another $1K expense
>that the Volt will have much less of, since the engine doesn't run all
>that much.
>
>Oh, and the Cruise likely has a timing belt. 2 - 3 timing belt
>replacements at $400 each is probably another $1K or so that the Volt
>will have 0 or 1 timing belt replacements, since the engine would run
>so little.
>
>Anyway, I think a 20% reduction in the price of a Volt might put it on
>a par with the Cruise, depending on how you figure it, and how many of
>the expenses you account for.
Figuring it the way you did, it might make sense. Using real world
situations and real world facts... not so much.
For 99.99% of Americans, the .33 hours/mile is an absurdity and the
entire thing is a grossly overpriced joke.
--
"If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you’re not a racist,
you’ll have to vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you’re
not an idiot." - spotted bumper sticker
to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to the Chevy
Cruze" some deep mathematical statement, you're still only $216 from
where I was, taking his statement as it was stated.
>
>What's a Chevy Cruise get for mileage? 35? So, to go 100 miles in a
>cruse should cost about 3 gallons, or $12. Going 100 miles in a Volt
>should cost about 30 KwH which, around here, at 8 1/2 cents per KwH,
>is $2.55. So, for each 100 miles driven segment, the Volt will save
>$9.45.
Actually, Chevy says that the Cruze gets 42 mpg (perhaps a coincidence
>What's a Chevy Cruise get for mileage? 35? So, to go 100 miles in a
>cruse should cost about 3 gallons, or $12. Going 100 miles in a Volt
>should cost about 30 KwH which, around here, at 8 1/2 cents per KwH,
>is $2.55. So, for each 100 miles driven segment, the Volt will save
>$9.45.
that you're 20% off?)
And, going 100 miles in a Cruze will require 3 stops to recharge (hey,
you're the one comparing the all electric to the all gas). So, I guess
you have to figure a prefect panacea where every thirty miles, there
is a convenient charging station that charges the same amount as the
home electric rate (perhaps there are green folks out there who have
installed the charging stations and provide the electricity FREE, in
order to save the galaxy, who knows).
So, let's look at my last trip. Just for giggles, let's say that it
was an even 300 miles, one way. We left Friday (Spring Break Friday)
and had to first make it through Atlanta. ANY Friday afternoon's
traffic is bad. Spring Break Friday was ridiculous.
It took two hours to go the first 60 miles. The rest was a breeze.
Had we been in a Volt, we wouldn't have made it TO downtown Atlanta
before needing to stop for 10 hours (according to Chevy) to charge it.
Even with the bad traffic at the beginning, we would have been AT the
coast before the Volt was ready to start off on it's 2nd 30 mile
segment.
So, had we bought a Volt to save the planet (and supposedly, money),
we would have arrived at the beach ~100 hours later (10 30 mile
segments). That would have put us there just in time for dinner on
Tuesday. But uh-oh, that would mean that to get back home at this time
today, we'd have to rush through dinner and start back...and still be
late. Hmmm, I'm betting that even if I had invited a green friend to
go to the beach for 8 days with us, they would have been pretty
peeved, huh?
So, all of your jumbled math comparing all gas to all electric is
really quite silly. Why make such an effort to jumble things around
and pretend that alternate realities exist? 'just to support the
Volt? Really? Why, exactly?
>
>$7,300 divided by $9.45 is 722 100 mile drives, or 72,200 miles of
>driving on electricity. If the car lasts 200,000 miles, that means
>that only 36.1% of the driving would have to be electric.
Are you including hotel charges for the 10 hour stop you have to make
>$7,300 divided by $9.45 is 722 100 mile drives, or 72,200 miles of
>driving on electricity. If the car lasts 200,000 miles, that means
>that only 36.1% of the driving would have to be electric.
each 30 miles in this perfect little world you've created in your
mind?
>
>Of course, there's a battery replacement in there somewhere. OK, we
>can figure by the time that battery replacement is needed, the Cruise
>is going to be at least nearing the requirement to replace its engine,
>because it'll be a serious oil burner by then most likely. And, we
>have to figure in oil changes every 7,500 miles for the Cruise, at
>maybe $40 - $60 each. Not much, but maybe about another $1K expense
>that the Volt will have much less of, since the engine doesn't run all
>that much.
>
>Oh, and the Cruise likely has a timing belt. 2 - 3 timing belt
>replacements at $400 each is probably another $1K or so that the Volt
>will have 0 or 1 timing belt replacements, since the engine would run
>so little.
>
>Anyway, I think a 20% reduction in the price of a Volt might put it on
>a par with the Cruise, depending on how you figure it, and how many of
>the expenses you account for.
situations and real world facts... not so much.
For 99.99% of Americans, the .33 hours/mile is an absurdity and the
entire thing is a grossly overpriced joke.
--
"If you voted for Obama in 2008 to prove you’re not a racist,
you’ll have to vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you’re
not an idiot." - spotted bumper sticker
Buzz
Apr 7, 2012, 7:51:32 PM4/7/12
to
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>
>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>
> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
I DID deal with the facts, Dave.
>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>
>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>
> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
Let's see. Lee Spieckerman states (incorrectly) that "There is a
price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
It's laughable how far off his FACTS are.
only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
>
> It was not Obama that caused the volt, and it is not a bad thing.
>
> It is interesting as another facet of, "eating your own." The guy
>is a FOX fan, and a fan of those on FOX (wondering)and you are not
>able to see the message because he is not telling the story you want
>to hear.
>
> Talking about "Slammed Shut!"
You really should think (or get a college bound West Virginnie High
> It was not Obama that caused the volt, and it is not a bad thing.
>
> It is interesting as another facet of, "eating your own." The guy
>is a FOX fan, and a fan of those on FOX (wondering)and you are not
>able to see the message because he is not telling the story you want
>to hear.
>
> Talking about "Slammed Shut!"
School graduate who's almost mastered some 4th grade math skills to
assist you) before responding.
Dave Head
Apr 8, 2012, 9:22:57 AM4/8/12
to
home. I don't go on spring break with an electric car that often. And
of course the incredibly low price of electricity compared to gas
allows for the 36.1% of driving being electric in order to get the
savings.
You've assumed that 100 miles of driving has to be done in a 100 mile
trip, rather than 3 trips of 40, 40, and 20. The latter is how I
would be using my Volt, if I could afford it, since I'm 20 miles out
of town. I could use the Volt 100% electric, and take the "other car"
for longer trips, OR simply run the Volt's gas engine.
No, the Volt isn't really going to actually "pay for itself" but I
haven't found a gasoline car that will do that either. Maybe if we
get $10 / gallon of gas...
I still have an idea for building a rail system that runs on
electricity and carries cars and trucks with their occupants
automatically. Maybe we should still build that - fuel efficient,
automatic, takes cars off highways. No need for batteries.
Buzz
Apr 8, 2012, 11:42:09 AM4/8/12
to
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:22:57 -0400, Dave Head <rall...@att.net>
Where does the 36.1% figure for electric driving come from?
should be a second car?
Perhaps you're seeing why production has been halted.
>
>No, the Volt isn't really going to actually "pay for itself" but I
>haven't found a gasoline car that will do that either. Maybe if we
>get $10 / gallon of gas...
You can hope.
dirty fossil fuels, but is celebrated as an Electric Vehicle. Oh
wait, we've already got that.
>
>You've assumed that 100 miles of driving has to be done in a 100 mile
>trip, rather than 3 trips of 40, 40, and 20. The latter is how I
>would be using my Volt, if I could afford it, since I'm 20 miles out
>of town. I could use the Volt 100% electric, and take the "other car"
>for longer trips, OR simply run the Volt's gas engine.
So the Volt, at ~$30,000+++ after Joe Taxpayer subsidizes the sale,
>You've assumed that 100 miles of driving has to be done in a 100 mile
>trip, rather than 3 trips of 40, 40, and 20. The latter is how I
>would be using my Volt, if I could afford it, since I'm 20 miles out
>of town. I could use the Volt 100% electric, and take the "other car"
>for longer trips, OR simply run the Volt's gas engine.
should be a second car?
Perhaps you're seeing why production has been halted.
>
>No, the Volt isn't really going to actually "pay for itself" but I
>haven't found a gasoline car that will do that either. Maybe if we
>get $10 / gallon of gas...
>
>I still have an idea for building a rail system that runs on
>electricity and carries cars and trucks with their occupants
>automatically. Maybe we should still build that - fuel efficient,
>automatic, takes cars off highways. No need for batteries.
Or perhaps a car that gets 90% of it's mileage from burring evil,
>I still have an idea for building a rail system that runs on
>electricity and carries cars and trucks with their occupants
>automatically. Maybe we should still build that - fuel efficient,
>automatic, takes cars off highways. No need for batteries.
dirty fossil fuels, but is celebrated as an Electric Vehicle. Oh
wait, we've already got that.
Message has been deleted
JAB
Apr 8, 2012, 9:22:51 PM4/8/12
to
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 11:42:09 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>So the Volt, at ~$30,000+++ after Joe Taxpayer subsidizes the sale,
>should be a second car?
Uh...there's so much tax subsidizes...is the kettle calling the pot
>So the Volt, at ~$30,000+++ after Joe Taxpayer subsidizes the sale,
>should be a second car?
black?
Buzz
Apr 8, 2012, 9:49:36 PM4/8/12
to
anyway.
Dave K
Apr 9, 2012, 9:05:37 PM4/9/12
to
On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:51:32 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>>
>> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
>
>I DID deal with the facts, Dave.
>
>Let's see. Lee Spieckerman states (incorrectly) that "There is a
>price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
>only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
>the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
>
>It's laughable how far off his FACTS are.
You are still wrong Buzz.
>On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>>
>> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
>
>I DID deal with the facts, Dave.
>
>Let's see. Lee Spieckerman states (incorrectly) that "There is a
>price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
>only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
>the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
>
>It's laughable how far off his FACTS are.
You are simply picking up bits your masters throw out to you to bait
with. For one reason or another the CONservatives have decided to
demonized the Volt. I suspect it is so they can fabricate yet another
front with which to attack their arch nemesis, Obama. LOL!
Facts are Chevrolet is selling the Volt, not Obama. Once you get
past the rhetoric, it becomes easier to understand.
<http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz/2012/03/12/the-chevy-volt-bill-oreilly-and-the-postmans-butt/>
<http://mediamatters.org/blog/201204090012>
You should try to avoid the CONservative hype, and look at reality.
>>
>> It was not Obama that caused the volt, and it is not a bad thing.
>>
>> It is interesting as another facet of, "eating your own." The guy
>>is a FOX fan, and a fan of those on FOX (wondering)and you are not
>>able to see the message because he is not telling the story you want
>>to hear.
>>
>> Talking about "Slammed Shut!"
>
>
>
>You really should think (or get a college bound West Virginnie High
>School graduate who's almost mastered some 4th grade math skills to
>assist you) before responding.
--
Cheers! :)
Buzz
Apr 9, 2012, 9:31:27 PM4/9/12
to
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 21:05:37 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:51:32 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>>>
>>> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>>>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
>>
>>I DID deal with the facts, Dave.
>>
>>Let's see. Lee Spieckerman states (incorrectly) that "There is a
>>price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
>>only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
>>the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
>>
>>It's laughable how far off his FACTS are.
>
> You are still wrong Buzz.
If I thought you had the intelligence to realize that you should once
>On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 19:51:32 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0400, Dave K <dav...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:03:49 -0400, Buzz <bu...@buzz.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Perhaps the title of the article should have been "Fox News Guest
>>>>Debunks Right Wing Lies With Left Wing Lies"
>>>
>>> As always; demonize the messenger, and don't deal with the facts.
>>>(except some minutiae that is unimportant to the message.)
>>
>>I DID deal with the facts, Dave.
>>
>>Let's see. Lee Spieckerman states (incorrectly) that "There is a
>>price differential, but, at the end of the day, we really
>>only need to get the Volt about 20% cheaper to make it comparable to
>>the Chevy Cruze which is the gasoline model that's equivalent."
>>
>>It's laughable how far off his FACTS are.
>
> You are still wrong Buzz.
again be embarrassed to be arguing against the facts laid out in front
of you, I'd point it out.
Alas, you don't. And I won't.
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