Zoophilia
Locandez
My two cents...
Personally, I think anyone can just say to themselves 'Having sex
with animals is disgusting', and just leave it at that. But I
think it takes a lot of guts, to actually think about it, and
come to the conclusion that 'Well, maybe having sex with animals
isn't all that bad at all. In fact, I might try it sometime'. And
it's even harder to admit it to other people, especially to a
large group like alt.fan.furry. It's definitely not easy to base
your beliefs on what is more or less the opposite of 'normal
thought'. A lot of people, I reckon, will not allow themselves to
think about zoophilia, for fear that they actually come to the
conclusion that it isn't as bad as they previously imagined. So,
to all you zoos out there, ignore the kind of intolerant people
who seem to be rife on alt.fan.furry.
Locandez
Tim Gadd
Locandez <10166...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>My two cents...
>Personally, I think anyone can just say to themselves 'Having sex
>with animals is disgusting', and just leave it at that. But I
>think it takes a lot of guts, to actually think about it, and
>come to the conclusion that 'Well, maybe having sex with animals
>isn't all that bad at all. In fact, I might try it sometime'. And
>it's even harder to admit it to other people, especially to a
>large group like alt.fan.furry. It's definitely not easy to base
>your beliefs on what is more or less the opposite of 'normal
>thought'. A lot of people, I reckon, will not allow themselves to
>think about zoophilia, for fear that they actually come to the
>conclusion that it isn't as bad as they previously imagined.
Somone on another newsgroup recently was talking about prejudices.
They said that everyone has their prejudices, which is only natural.
"Most people have a prejudice against Nazis, for instance."
But a prejudice is an opinion formed 'in advance', or without any
understanding, or an incomplete understanding of the factors or people
concerned. Therefore I would say that an objection to the Nazi regime
is not necessarily a prejudice, but can be a valid moral position
arrived at after considering relevant evidence. To say though that all
Nazis are evil is more in the way of a prejudice. For 3 years I worked
with a guy who in his teens was a member of the Hitler Youth, and
despiter a sad conspiracy theory about Jews which he had been unable
to shake off and a horrible temper, I regard him as the most
honourable and humane person I worked with there.
I think that's when prejudice dissolves - when you actually meet and
learn about whoever it is that you're prejudiced against.
Some time ago I was thinking about zoophilia. I'd been thinking about
it pretty hard, really trying to decide where I stood on the subject.
I always regarded myself as tolerant, and I _said_ that I didn't have
a problem with zoos, yet there was still something in me which kept
whispering 'it's wrong'. I tried to study this voice and where it was
coming from, and what its rationale was, and after several weeks I
decided that it was simply a prejudice. I thought everything through,
and I could not find a moral or ethical argument against zoophilia,
and I decided that this voice was basically just conditioning. I
thought I'd like to get rid of it, and I thought I knew how I could do
it.
I went to the zoo sites on the web. I lurked there and I listened to
zoos talking to one another. I read what they went through because of
the shit they copped from others; I read about the way they felt for
their partners; I found that _many_ of them were highly intelligent,
spiritual people. And I specifically made myself read about how they
felt when their partners died, and no-one could comprehend their
grief. I came away from it with that little voice silenced, and
knowing that it truly had been nothing other than prejudice.
--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania
<tjg...@southcom.com.au>
----------------- member of -----------------------
- -
- FUZZ -
- -
- (Furries Unafraid of Zoos) -
----------------------------------------------------------
Now this should be a real test of our tolerance here on ALF. I can
never remember this subject coming up on a.f.f without a flamewar
ensuing.
Cam
Tim Gadd wrote:
>snippety-do-dah<
> I read what they went through because of
> the shit they copped from others; I read about the way they felt for
> their partners; I found that _many_ of them were highly intelligent,
> spiritual people. And I specifically made myself read about how they
> felt when their partners died, and no-one could comprehend their
> grief. I came away from it with that little voice silenced, and
> knowing that it truly had been nothing other than prejudice.
> --
> Tim Gadd
> Hobart, Tasmania
> <tjg...@southcom.com.au>
>
> ----------------- member of -----------------------
> - -
> - FUZZ -
> - -
> - (Furries Unafraid of Zoos) -
> ----------------------------------------------------------
HOORAY! Wow! What a tremendous statement! What a wonderful thing you
did. You used the brain you were born with and made your own decision!
Now - How do we get more people to draw their own conclusions???
Hmm..
One step at a time, I guess is progress!
THANK YOU!
Malcolm McMahon
On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:40:41 GMT, tjg...@southcom.com.au (Tim Gadd)
wrote:
>
>Some time ago I was thinking about zoophilia. I'd been thinking about
>it pretty hard, really trying to decide where I stood on the subject.
>I always regarded myself as tolerant, and I _said_ that I didn't have
>a problem with zoos, yet there was still something in me which kept
>whispering 'it's wrong'. I tried to study this voice and where it was
>coming from, and what its rationale was, and after several weeks I
>decided that it was simply a prejudice. I thought everything through,
>and I could not find a moral or ethical argument against zoophilia,
>and I decided that this voice was basically just conditioning. I
>thought I'd like to get rid of it, and I thought I knew how I could do
>it.
>
What's interesting is where, exactly, does this prejudice come from?
It's certainly not something explicitly taught. I doubt if either of
my parents ever knew there was such a thing as zoophilia or
bestiality.
---------------------------------+----------------------------------
I was born weird: This terrible | Like Pavlov's dogs we are trained
compulsion to behave normally is | to salivate at the sound of the
the result of childhood trauma. | liberty bell.
---------------------------------+----------------------------------
Malcolm
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
tjg...@southcom.com.au (Tim Gadd) writes:
[...]
>But a prejudice is an opinion formed 'in advance', or without any
>understanding, or an incomplete understanding of the factors or people
>concerned.
To pre-judge infact. On of the things I always try to avoid doing. I
should know the pepeaple I criterses and even if I don't become symthatic
I am able to critersie them better.
[...]
>To say though that all
>Nazis are evil is more in the way of a prejudice.
One of the dearest freands of my famlery was a membour of the Hitler Youth
(as where most childeren her age) untill oneday she realised what she was
doing was wrong and became a nun. The capserty to realise that things are
wrong and change your ways shows that she was not evil.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. /\ /\ /\
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ( X X )
I can't walk but I can fly. It's lucky to be ducky \/ \/ \/
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
>On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:40:41 GMT, tjg...@southcom.com.au (Tim Gadd)
>wrote:
[...]
>What's interesting is where, exactly, does this prejudice come from?
>It's certainly not something explicitly taught. I doubt if either of
>my parents ever knew there was such a thing as zoophilia or
>bestiality.
You have never heard a bestality joke? In addtion most forms of
"alturnative" sexulatys have a basic perjudice assosated with it. As
socity has matured these have snipped away beastality remains.
Malcolm McMahon
On 3 Jan 1997 18:48:55 +1100, ? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
<dfor...@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:
>mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:40:41 GMT, tjg...@southcom.com.au (Tim Gadd)
>>wrote:
>[...]
>
>>What's interesting is where, exactly, does this prejudice come from?
>>It's certainly not something explicitly taught. I doubt if either of
>>my parents ever knew there was such a thing as zoophilia or
>>bestiality.
>
>You have never heard a bestality joke?
Not during my formative years, no. In fact I think I reach adulthood
without ever conceiving the possibility. Maybe I lead a sheltered life
but things _have_ changed since then.
> In addtion most forms of
>"alturnative" sexulatys have a basic perjudice assosated with it. As
>socity has matured these have snipped away beastality remains.
>
That just expands the question to the origins of prejudice against
alternate sexuality in general.
And, BTW, the idea that prejudice has been "snipped away" seems
hopelessly optimistic. Homophobia has been declared politically
unacceptable but most people haven't exactly come to regard, e.g. S&M
as socially acceptable. It's worth remembering that the internet
community is the avant garde of the 90's, by no mean representative of
general attitudes.
This interests me, at least in part, because I'm a moderately kinky
person myself. I seem to have known, even as a pre-school kid, that
these were things you didn't share with your parents. It's like it
goes right back past social conditioning to the genes themselves.
Or is it that we start off with a total guilt trip on _anything_ of a
vaguely sexual nature then learn that specific kinds of sexual
behaviour _are_ acceptable, leaving other behaviours in the same limbo
of dread that vanilla hetrosex in the missionary position started off
in?
The horror at bestiality interest me because it seems the strongest
and purest expression of this irrationality. Do we blame it all on
Leviticus? I don't think so.
Tim Gadd
>mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
>>On Thu, 02 Jan 1997 18:40:41 GMT, tjg...@southcom.com.au (Tim Gadd)
>>wrote:
>[...]
>>What's interesting is where, exactly, does this prejudice come from?
>>It's certainly not something explicitly taught. I doubt if either of
>>my parents ever knew there was such a thing as zoophilia or
>>bestiality.
At first glance it looks a bit like that quote's credited to me, but
it's not one of mine. I'm quite positive anti zoo prejudice is taught.
Whether that's the sole reason for the prejudice existing I don't
know, but most cultures have taboos against inter_RACIAL_ sex to one
extent or another, so a taboo on interspecies sex is hardly a
surprise. A taboo doesn't need to be explicitly taught in any case.
In anglo-american culture anything remotely to do with genitalia is
off to a bad start. And of course people have a tendency to resist
anything sufficiently beyond their usual experience. How much of that
is cultural and how much inate is something I don't think I'm
qualified to judge.
--
Tim Gadd
Hobart, Tasmania
<tjg...@southcom.com.au>
------------------- member of ----------------------
Locandez
Tim Gadd wrote:
> Now this should be a real test of our tolerance here on ALF.
> I can never remember this subject coming up on a.f.f. without
> a flamewar ensuing.
Yes, that's because a.f.f. is principally for the discussion of
anthropomorphic animals in media and literature, and zoophilia is
a lifestyle thing.
Locandez
*fuzzy*
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
>On 3 Jan 1997 18:48:55 +1100, ? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
><dfor...@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:
[...]
>>You have never heard a bestality joke?
>Not during my formative years, no.
My goodness you did leave a sheltered life :D. I think alot of these
things are transmitted somewhat sutelly. Not directly though speech but
though there perents actions. In deed I wounder how kids whould learn
wich words are obseen?
>> In addtion most forms of
>>"alturnative" sexulatys have a basic perjudice assosated with it. As
>>socity has matured these have snipped away beastality remains.
>That just expands the question to the origins of prejudice against
>alternate sexuality in general.
I think this comes from deeply from zenophoba.
>And, BTW, the idea that prejudice has been "snipped away" seems
>hopelessly optimistic.
True but there have been peaple who have sead "I'm willing to do anything
as long as it dosn't involove children or animuls."
[...]
>I seem to have known, even as a pre-school kid,
As a per-school kid/school kid I had these wonderfull erotic dreams. Made
confusing by my lack of knowlige about the sex act. Thay mostly centered
around getting naked as I know that this was rude but I didn't know what
happened next.
--
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
[...]
>I know that. Leviticus seems to have been the starting point though he
>makes no distinction between bestiality and homosexuality.
I've noticed this. Thoughout history bestiality and homosexuality have
been linked. In the divine comady thay are both confined to the same
level of hell (allong with loan sharks).
Loupiotte
FoxWolfie Galen <ga...@moose.erie.net> wrote:
> Much of this is taught. Followers of christianity and a few other religions
I was not taught with words that bestiality was bad. It was the actions
and reactions of the adults around me when a dog would sniff me. Dogs
were 'naughty' and usually got a quick whack on the nose for doing it
even though it's something quite natural for them. As a child I never
saw anything sexual in it but the adults did.
<snip>
> bestiality. If they see the term zoophilia and realize what it means, they
> usually assume that it has to involve sex with an animal and it becomes the
> same as bestiality for them.
Most sex is seen by humans as dirty whether it involves animals or other
humans.
> Furriness, plushophilia, bisexuality and almost anything that is an
> expression of one's sexuality causes a lot of you to act on their
> prejudices. A large portion of this is blamed on someone's idea of what God
> is compatible with. They believe sex is a sin and that God thinks so too!
> The more fun or different sex is performed, the more sinful it is usually
> thought of.
Sex is a taboo subject. We're not supposed to talk about it. Heaven's
above if we actually enjoy doing it! Traditional Christians seem to
believe that sex is only for making babies. Cross-species breeding
[human and whatever animal] isn't possible therefore it _must_ be bad.
If we don't make babies then God will be angry with us...therefore sex
with animals is evil. At least, that's how I see it.
Lone Heart
FCW3s/FF3c A- C D+++m H+++ M+ P++++ R+ T+++ W- Z Sf++
RLAT a++ c++m d! e+ f++++ h++++ i+ p sf**
Malcolm McMahon
On 11 Jan 1997 11:08:34 +1100, ? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
<dfor...@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:
>mal...@pigsty.demon.co.uk (Malcolm McMahon) writes:
>
>[...]
>
>>I know that. Leviticus seems to have been the starting point though he
>>makes no distinction between bestiality and homosexuality.
>
>I've noticed this. Thoughout history bestiality and homosexuality have
>been linked. In the divine comady thay are both confined to the same
>level of hell (allong with loan sharks).
>
As I understand it in English law up up to the early years of this
century _any_ kind of sex except vanilla hetrosex was sodomy and
carried a penalty up to life imprisonment. The distinction of
homosexuality is a new one. In fact the sodomy law was theoretically
in effect _except_ for adult homosexuals until two years ago.
I think, in fact, Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" sums it up best:
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
When a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate.
A religion's vested interest in encouraging it's members to breed like
rabbits is fairly obvious.
? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
lneh...@vianet.on.ca (Loupiotte) writes:
>FoxWolfie Galen <ga...@moose.erie.net> wrote:
[...]
>If we don't make babies then God will be angry with us...therefore sex
>with animals is evil. At least, that's how I see it
<Singing>
Every Spurm is sacrate
Every Spurm is great
And if a single spurm is wasted
God gets quite irate.
</Singing>
Apologies to a plython called monty.