Calgary man linked to Kobe case
s_knight8
A night of partying at a local bar has placed a Calgary man in the
middle of the Kobe Bryant rape case. Wes Dawson, 22, spent an evening
dancing and flirting with a blonde stranger only to later discover she
was the mysterious young woman who'd earlier accused Kobe Bryant of
raping her.
And now pictures of him kissing and grinding with the woman are on the
front page of a popular supermarket magazine.
"It's kind of weird," said Wes Dawson about having his mug splashed
over a two-page spread with the headline 'Kobe Accuser Parties.'
Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
Shortly after, Bryant's lawyers showed up at his doorstep -- and
they've been in regular contact with him ever since.
"They asked for a statement and now they want me to go down to
Colorado to testify at the trial -- I'm still thinking about it," he
said.
"Nothing like this has happened to me before -- I was just sitting in
the corner of the bar, near the back and she sat in my lap and her
friends took pictures," he said.
Dawson also noticed the woman dancing around tables that night, and by
the end of the evening she wanted to leave with him, he said.
"I just went home, but she wanted to do something afterwards, a party
or something," said Dawson.
He hasn't seen Bryant's accuser since that night and doesn't want to.
"No, I don't want to talk to her again," he said.
Bryant's defence team also has pictures of her trip to Outlaws, which
could be used to counter arguments by the prosecution that the accused
was traumatized by her encounter with Bryant.
The photos surfaced after an exclusive Calgary Sun story on Aug. 15.,
confirming a tip a high-profile private eye, working for Bryant's
defence team, was in the city digging up information on Bryant's
accuser.
Her trip to Calgary was also recently chronicled in the book Kobe
Bryant: The Game of His Life, by Jeffrey Scott Shapiro.
Nexus
"s_knight8" <s_kn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:6bd12cd6.0403...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/03/05/370907.html
>
> A night of partying at a local bar has placed a Calgary man in the
> middle of the Kobe Bryant rape case. Wes Dawson, 22, spent an evening
> dancing and flirting with a blonde stranger only to later discover she
> was the mysterious young woman who'd earlier accused Kobe Bryant of
> raping her.
>
> And now pictures of him kissing and grinding with the woman are on the
> front page of a popular supermarket magazine.
>
I would love to know which magazine that was or get a link to the pics...
Now would these actions be covered under the Colorado rape sheild laws?
> The photos surfaced after an exclusive Calgary Sun story on Aug. 15.,
> confirming a tip a high-profile private eye, working for Bryant's
> defence team, was in the city digging up information on Bryant's
> accuser.
>
> Her trip to Calgary was also recently chronicled in the book Kobe
> Bryant: The Game of His Life, by Jeffrey Scott Shapiro.
Not so sure Shapiro covered her trip to Calgary in quite the same way. Talk about self-character assassination.
VicXnews
news:Tt12c.18968$qA2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com:
>
> "s_knight8" <s_kn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6bd12cd6.0403...@posting.google.com...
>> http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/03/05/370907.html
>>
>> A night of partying at a local bar has placed a Calgary man in the
>> middle of the Kobe Bryant rape case. Wes Dawson, 22, spent an evening
>> dancing and flirting with a blonde stranger only to later discover she
>> was the mysterious young woman who'd earlier accused Kobe Bryant of
>> raping her.
>>
>> And now pictures of him kissing and grinding with the woman are on the
>> front page of a popular supermarket magazine.
>>
>
> I would love to know which magazine that was or get a link to the
> pics...
>
>
--
I need help, ladies and gentlemens
I need someone to stand beside me
I need, I need someone to set a pick for me
at the free-throw line of life
Someone I can pass to
Someone to hit the open man on the give-and-go
And not end up in the popcorn machine
--Cheech & Chong - Basketball Jones featuring Tyrone Shoelaces
...Chick Hearn, sing along with us
Tom C.
http://www.globemagazine.com/
"Nexus" <nexus@at&t.net> wrote in message
news:Tt12c.18968$qA2.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
n...@spam.wanted
>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
ROFL.
Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
This is the exact behavior of someone who got raped and her life was
destroyed, ...etc.
I'm sure some jackass will scream "irrelevant" somewhere.
Chas
> Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
> This is the exact behavior of someone who got raped and her life was
> destroyed, ...etc.
> I'm sure some jackass will scream "irrelevant" somewhere.
I'll be happy to.
Let's say she is an absolute tramp- you know, like your Mom. She has the
option of choosing with whom to be trampy; any scenario you choose, she
still has the choice to say nuh-uh.
In fact, if she is a tramp, one would presuppose that she knows the
difference between consent and refusal on a very personal basis, and her
perception of the event could be counted upon to be fully informed.
You know, like your Mom.
Chas
broadway
even if they go out seeking the affection of absolute strangers and inviting
them home with them? While I agree this is not the same as proof positive
that a rape did not occur. At the very best this makes things easier for
the defense. They have a motive for her false accusation, attention
depravation.
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:X_2dnX6rJad...@comcast.com...
bozak
you would think she would lay low until she got her cash...
looks like she isnt going to get shit out of this other than
the reputation of a person who will do anything for money...
bozak
lol... your feelings are hurt by this...
good... :-)
Michael Snyder
> <n...@spam.wanted> wrote
>
>>Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
>>This is the exact behavior of someone who got raped and her life was
>>destroyed, ...etc.
>>I'm sure some jackass will scream "irrelevant" somewhere.
>
>
> I'll be happy to.
> Let's say she is an absolute tramp-
Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
*I* ever heard of...
tjab
<n...@spam.wanted> wrote:
>On 5 Mar 2004 07:39:08 -0800, s_kn...@hotmail.com (s_knight8) wrote:
>
>
>>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
>>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
>>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
>>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
>>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>
>>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
>>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
>>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
So he didn't want to lick her, but she made him do it. Got it.
Nexus
cause he has his full arsenal of elementary level "your Mom" insults to throw around.
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:X_2dnX6rJad...@comcast.com...
Robert Lee
@stan.redhat.com:
> Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
> *I* ever heard of...
Yeah, agreed.
--
--Robert
When the log rolls over, we'll all be dead
Chas
> So, a person who claims to be "traumatized" by a rape still has a solid
case
> even if they go out seeking the affection of absolute strangers and
inviting
> them home with them?
Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
Chas
Chas
> >> Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
> an interesting debate, into just more mud-slinging.
You don't find the word 'skank' to be pejorative?
Insults breed insults; you know, like yer Mom.
<g>
c.
Chas
> Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
> *I* ever heard of...
keyword being 'I'.
I worked with battered women shelters/rape crisis/suicide hotline for years.
I've done intakes and referrals, self-defense training, escort work; watched
dozens of women in crisis. I've seen everybody from old whores to 10 yr. old
girls victimized by rape, and there just isn't an in-common response.
I find the accuser's account, as published so far, to be a classic situation
for sexual assault- and her demeanor subsequent to be entirely 'in
character' for someone victimized. Every woman's reaction is entirely
individual, and no generalities can be drawn except in hindsight.
Chas
Chas
> And at the mention of Jackass who appears but Chas the hick with too much
time on his hands. And watch out everyone
> cause he has his full arsenal of elementary level "your Mom" insults to
throw around.
I wouldn't throw your Mom around- they just move the line in front of her.
c.
SolarChase
Ohhhh, goooooooooood point.... LOL
--------
have a GREAT day !!!!
Solar
Nexus
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:gpmdnVTemKz...@comcast.com...
I finally figured it out...you are a transexual crossdressing, alcholic, reclusive, drug addict who has been raped and
therefore will grasp at anything just to believe that this girl is an innocent victim. Thanks for clearing that up Chaz
or would you prefer Charlize...
Nexus
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:h_OdnfNYwLU...@comcast.com...
Oh wow....how impressive...another "Your Mom" comeback... I am having flashbacks of elementary school...you know that
place where you just couldn't get over the hump and graduate like the rest of the kids.
Marcus Kwan
It is irrelevent. But you probably don't understand why or how.
n...@spam.wanted
You seem to be having a mom complex, possibly due to your mom being a
tramp and a whore.
n...@spam.wanted
Add that to her bragging about Kobe's "size" in public, few days after
the alleged incident, going to a "vacation" few hours after reporting
the alleged rape, the semen found of other men in her underwear, her
instable history, and you'll have to give her 0 when it comes to
credibility.
After all, this will be going to down to her word against his, since
there was no eye witness or solid evidence, other than the usual
evidence that you can find when 2 adults have sex.
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:51:14 -0800, "broadway" <bl...@microsoft.com>
wrote:
n...@spam.wanted
Your mom seems to fit in the "others sink into alcoholism or drug
addiction" category.
n...@spam.wanted
LOL!
n...@spam.wanted
You mean you got offended by reading my post calling the skank, a skank?
Go fuck yourself then, skank.
If you don't like to read what describes your mother, then unsubscribe
fro these newsgroups.
n...@spam.wanted
In your mom's case. the line is behind here.
n...@spam.wanted
wrote:
You're right, I don't understand what "irrelevent" is or why it is
mentioned here.
Messalina
> Michael Snyder <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in news:c2ake2$jtt$1
> @stan.redhat.com:
>
> > Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
> > *I* ever heard of...
>
> Yeah, agreed.
Actually, wild behavior and promiscuity are very much a standard type
of behavior for rape survivors. Mind you, that doesn't mean that
every "girl gone wild" has been sexually assaulted.
Stop looking for any one right way for someone to behave after being
raped; it doesn't exist.
Mez
Alex
news:6bd12cd6.0403...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/03/05/370907.html
> "She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
> have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
> young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
>
> Shortly after, Bryant's lawyers showed up at his doorstep -- and
> they've been in regular contact with him ever since.
>
> "They asked for a statement and now they want me to go down to
> Colorado to testify at the trial -- I'm still thinking about it," he
> said.
>
> "Nothing like this has happened to me before -- I was just sitting in
> the corner of the bar, near the back and she sat in my lap and her
> friends took pictures," he said.
>
> Dawson also noticed the woman dancing around tables that night, and by
> the end of the evening she wanted to leave with him, he said.
>
> "I just went home, but she wanted to do something afterwards, a party
> or something," said Dawson.
People have been talking about establishing an M.O. for Kobe Bryant,
with the hotel worker in Portland.
However, it seems more likely that an M.O. for the accuser is
developing.
Also, Johnray Strickland's assertion that she was "changed" because
of her experience seems to be another flatout lie.
He never seemed very trustworthy to me. They all seem to have
some kind of agenda going on.
Alex
D. Gerasimatos
Messalina <sec...@duelingoak.com> wrote:
>
>Actually, wild behavior and promiscuity are very much a standard type
>of behavior for rape survivors. Mind you, that doesn't mean that
>every "girl gone wild" has been sexually assaulted.
>
>Stop looking for any one right way for someone to behave after being
>raped; it doesn't exist.
Well, we've heard that she wasn't very shy befre meeting Kobe and her
panties prove that. Now we hear that she wasn't very shy afterwards
either and these photos prove that. That doesn't mean she was not raped, as
even prostitutes can be raped.
However, statistically one wonders what was different about her encounter
with Kobe other than the fact that he's a rich athlete. It's not like he
beat her up or pulled a knife on her. What evidence is there, really, that
her night with Kobe was any different from, apparently, every other night
in her life?
Dimitri
Alex
news:7111e10e.04030...@posting.google.com...
Hmmm... Here's the problem. It is her word that Kobe didn't stop
when she said stop, however, she herself is very unclear about saying
stop in her first police interview.
Then, she herself claimed that Kobe stopped when she put her hand
on his. That doesn't sound like the reaction of a frenzied rapist.
Then, she is supposed to be traumatized by the ordeal, but she goes
out partying almost immediately after and _maybe_ may even have
had sex with the bellhop on the way home.
Now tell me honestly - can you really say with a straight face that
these sound like the actions of a girl who has just been violently
assaulted?
The problem I have with many of the feminist types, is that
they can't and won't distinguish between bad sex and rape.
How about the JohnRay Strickland lie that she now has "trust issues"?
I'd like to hear him explain these Globe photographs.
Alex
Michael Fletcher
howldog wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:37:29 -0700, "Chas"
> <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>><n...@spam.wanted> wrote
>>
>>>Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
>>>This is the exact behavior of someone who got raped and her life was
>>>destroyed, ...etc.
>>>I'm sure some jackass will scream "irrelevant" somewhere.
>>
>>I'll be happy to
>>Let's say she is an absolute tramp- you know, like your Mom.
>
>
>
> how in the hell do you know that? you just turned what might have been
> an interesting debate, into just more mud-slinging. Way to render your
> own argument moot. Dont tell me, you're <shudder> one of them
> furry-legged hyphen-named femmedooders. This is why feminism always
> fails. The deliverers of the message are always these stuck up
> holier-than-thou sneering hypocrits. People hate them, not because of
> their message, but because they're obnoxious.
ouch...lol...
>
>
>
>
>>In fact, if she is a tramp, one would presuppose that she knows the
>>difference between consent and refusal on a very personal basis, and her
>>perception of the event could be counted upon to be fully informed.
>>You know, like your Mom.
>
>
>
> actually honey, YOU are the one that apparently seems to know what
> it's all about to be "trampy".
>
>
>
>
--
MF
See L.A. for class
On March 21 in Los Angeles, former Celtics great (who broke the hearts
of many Lakers fans) Bill Russell had his picture on the scoreboard.
The fans gave him a long ovation.
The previous night, when it was announced that Shaq O'Neal scored his
20,000th point, the fans in Sacramento booed. Then, to make matters
worse, a the game ball was defaced, presumably by a Sacramento fan.
Clinton E. Parish
Sacramento
Rest in Peace, Francis Dayle "Chick" Hearn : 1916 - 2002
Michael Fletcher
Blah blah blah... you are now property of Howldog.
>
> c.
Michael Fletcher
Weak.
>
> Chas
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> <n...@spam.wanted> wrote
>
>>Yeah a very solid case this skank has.
>>This is the exact behavior of someone who got raped and her life was
>>destroyed, ...etc.
>>I'm sure some jackass will scream "irrelevant" somewhere.
>
>
> I'll be happy to.
lol... so you're that guy, huh? There's always THAT guy.
Michael Fletcher
So she was traumatized by the rape... yet she's out trying to go home
with any guy she can?
Let me guess: the rape was so traumatic that it magically changed her
into a slut?
That's what Chaz would say.
Funny, then, that she was obviously a slut BEFORE the rape too (three
guys in three nights prior to Kobe?), so she really hasn't changed at all.
And if one were so traumatized, wouldn't one be a little wary of strange
men?
No this isn't conclusive evidence, but given everything else we know
about the gold-digger this is just icing on the cake.
Michael Fletcher
tjab wrote:
> In article <49f8c282dcf47ae3...@news.teranews.com>,
> <n...@spam.wanted> wrote:
>
>>On 5 Mar 2004 07:39:08 -0800, s_kn...@hotmail.com (s_knight8) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
>>>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
>>>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
>>>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
>>>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>>
>>>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
>>>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
>>>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
>>
>
> So he didn't want to lick her, but she made him do it. Got it.'
Right -- because he went along with it, that means he MUST have
instigated the encounter.
You're a retard.
Michael Fletcher
Messalina wrote:
> Robert Lee <cranch...@earthpiddlydiddlydoolink.poop.net.peepee> wrote in message news:<Xns94A37884AF3...@207.217.125.205>...
>
>>Michael Snyder <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in news:c2ake2$jtt$1
>>@stan.redhat.com:
>>
>>
>>>Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
>>>*I* ever heard of...
>>
>>Yeah, agreed.
>
>
> Actually, wild behavior and promiscuity are very much a standard type
> of behavior for rape survivors.
So what about the wild behavior and promiscuity BEFORE she was "raped"?
> Mind you, that doesn't mean that
> every "girl gone wild" has been sexually assaulted.
>
> Stop looking for any one right way for someone to behave after being
> raped; it doesn't exist.
>
> Mez
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "Michael Snyder" <msn...@redhat.com> wrote
>
>>Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
>>*I* ever heard of...
>
>
> keyword being 'I'.
> I worked with battered women shelters/rape crisis/suicide hotline for years.
Then you should know when someone cries wolf. Tsk, tsk...
> I've done intakes and referrals, self-defense training, escort work; watched
> dozens of women in crisis. I've seen everybody from old whores to 10 yr. old
> girls victimized by rape, and there just isn't an in-common response.
> I find the accuser's account, as published so far, to be a classic situation
> for sexual assault- and her demeanor subsequent to be entirely 'in
> character' for someone victimized. Every woman's reaction is entirely
> individual, and no generalities can be drawn except in hindsight.
>
> Chas
>
>
Michael Fletcher
But what if his mom's a battered woman, you bleeding heart you?
Stick to one card, asshole. Either your the angelic saint who works with
battered women *cough*LIAR*cough* or you're the
fourth-grader-in-an-adult's-body who resorts to "YER MOM!" any time he
can't think of a witty response (which would be most times).
>
> c.
Chas
> .....What evidence is there, really, that
> her night with Kobe was any different from, apparently, every other night
> in her life?
The fact that she didn't cry rape on any of them- one can safely assume she
knows the difference between rape and acquiescence.
See, the idea of her suing him for money is a fantasy set in the future- if
at all. There's certainly no present indication of any such motivation. We
can hypothesize all we care to, but so far, the only real act has been for
her to swear the complaint, and it's been vetted by a *bunch* of people.
They could drop it anytime it seems to be unfounded.
Chas
Chas
> So what about the wild behavior and promiscuity BEFORE she was "raped"?
What about it?
Really; what does her behaviour before meeting him have to do with the
event?
If anything, it lowers the probability of a false report. She certainly
seems to have enough experience to instantly determine whether or not she's
acquiesced to a sexual encounter. She didn't report anyone else, so the Kobe
experience must have been different.
And don't tell me about being a golddigger until you have some evidence- you
could as easily assign any other motivation.
Chas
Chas
> > I worked with battered women shelters/rape crisis/suicide hotline for
years.
> Then you should know when someone cries wolf. Tsk, tsk...
Kobe was no stranger to infidelity- he was probably on pain pills for his
knee. He may very well have acted out of his ass.
Sure she had to be some kinda stupid to even end up alone with him- that's a
menacing situation anyway you look at it. If she got within arms reach of
him, she should have expected what we now find is his modus operandi; being
very forward.
Her first characterization was that he was acting weird.
Chas
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "Michael Felcher" <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote
>
>>So what about the wild behavior and promiscuity BEFORE she was "raped"?
>
>
> What about it?
What do you mean, "what about it"? So she's so traumatized that she
carries on EXACTLY as she had been before?
In another post in this thread you tried to spin this like she was being
slutty BECAUSE of the "rape." I remind you that she was just as lutty
prior to the "rape," effectively disproving your
slutty-as-a-result-of-"rape" theory and the best you've got is "um...
what about it?"
> Really; what does her behaviour before meeting him have to do with the
> event?
You play the irrelevant card too much. Just because not every piece of
evidence against her proves conclusively that she's a lying piece of
shit doesn't mean they don't add up.
Her behavior BEFORE meeting him might explain the microscopic injuries
she supposedly sustained during the "traumatizing" rape. Her behavior
BEFORE meeting him, coupled with her obvious behavior since (including
bragging about the size of Kobe's dong to her friend) make it obvious
that nothing that happened in that room really affected her actions very
much at all.
> If anything, it lowers the probability of a false report. She certainly
> seems to have enough experience to instantly determine whether or not she's
> acquiesced to a sexual encounter. She didn't report anyone else, so the Kobe
> experience must have been different.
Right -- and what about it was different?
(hint: $$$)
> And don't tell me about being a golddigger
Because you don't want to hear it because it wipes its ass with your case?
>until you have some evidence-
She's a whore before -- she's a whore afterwards. She wears dirty
panties to an investigation (gee what was the motivation behind that
one? was it laundry day?) AND hauls in the panties she wore with Kobe.
She's told by her mom she was raped, she changes her story to the
police... her "outcry" witness was the bellboy, then it wasn't, then it
was, then it wasn't...
Please... if you still believe this shit I've got a beachfront property
outside Phoenix for you at ROCKBOTTOM prices.
Are you going to instult my mom now?
>
> Chas
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "D. Gerasimatos" <d...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote
>
>>.....What evidence is there, really, that
>>her night with Kobe was any different from, apparently, every other night
>>in her life?
>
>
> The fact that she didn't cry rape on any of them- one can safely assume she
> knows the difference between rape and acquiescence.
...and, that she knows the difference between poor college students and
an LA Laker.
> See, the idea of her suing him for money is a fantasy set in the future- if
> at all. There's certainly no present indication of any such motivation. We
> can hypothesize all we care to, but so far, the only real act has been for
> her to swear the complaint, and it's been vetted by a *bunch* of people.
> They could drop it anytime it seems to be unfounded.
>
> Chas
>
>
steve sullivan
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'll be happy to.
> Let's say she is an absolute tramp- you know, like your Mom.
You are one fucked up asshole.
>She has the
> option of choosing with whom to be trampy; any scenario you choose, she
> still has the choice to say nuh-uh.
Right, even a prostitute can be raped.
> In fact, if she is a tramp, one would presuppose that she knows the
> difference between consent and refusal on a very personal basis, and her
> perception of the event could be counted upon to be fully informed.
> You know, like your Mom.
You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
around.
steve sullivan
n...@spam.wanted wrote:
> You seem to be having a mom complex, possibly due to your mom being a
> tramp and a whore.
No reason to be such a asshole.
bozak
"Michael Fletcher" <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote in message
news:40492F0E...@serverart.org...
>
>
> Chas wrote:
> > "D. Gerasimatos" <d...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote
> >
> >>.....What evidence is there, really, that
> >>her night with Kobe was any different from, apparently, every other night
> >>in her life?
> >
> >
> > The fact that she didn't cry rape on any of them- one can safely assume she
> > knows the difference between rape and acquiescence.
>
> ...and, that she knows the difference between poor college students and
> an LA Laker.
yeah but does chas???
n...@spam.email
wrote:
Read the thread again before you post in it, I wasn't the one with the
3rd grade level "your mom" insults.
And yes, when you get insulted, there is a reason to be such AN asshole.
Michael Fletcher
Careful, he's going to insult your mom.
Ken Smith
Maybe. Maybe not. Rape is a weird crime, and reactions go all over
the board.
Chas
> What do you mean, "what about it"? So she's so traumatized that she
> carries on EXACTLY as she had been before?
You know of her going to the room of another basketball player?
> In another post in this thread you tried to spin this like she was being
> slutty BECAUSE of the "rape." I remind you that she was just as lutty
> prior to the "rape," effectively disproving your
> slutty-as-a-result-of-"rape" theory and the best you've got is "um...
> what about it?"
And you've got no answer as to 'what about it'?
Her sexual proclivities are not what's on trial here, bud-
>..... make it obvious
> that nothing that happened in that room really affected her actions very
> much at all.
You have no idea what went on in her mind. You've not been raped- probably
don't know anyone who's been raped.
You're theorizing in a vaccuum, bud.
> > And don't tell me about being a golddigger
> Because you don't want to hear it because it wipes its ass with your case?
Produce one shred of evidence, besides your fantasy.
> Are you going to instult my mom now?
She seems to be the model by which you judge women- I think that's trouble
enough for her, and you.
Chas
Chas
> You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
> traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
> around.
And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
reaction to being raped.
In addition, she may have fucked her squeeze, been raped by Kobe, and fucked
her boyfriend willingly- that's not so much different from other women that
are sexually active.
The point is that you have a fantasy about how women react to rape, and it's
simply unfounded in reality.
Chas
Nexus
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:N-KdnQSuRuu...@comcast.com...
Was that characterization before or after she snuck up to his room for some consensual kissing...your arguments don't
have a leg to stand on.
Oh and please don't crush me with another brilliant "your Mom" insult.
Chas
> Was that characterization before or after she snuck up to his room for
some consensual kissing...
right after he raped her, if sworn affidavits be our guide.
>....your arguments don't
> have a leg to stand on.
Actually, they are sufficient to proceed with criminal charges against him,
and they go forward as we speak.
> Oh and please don't crush me with another brilliant "your Mom" insult.
Then keep a civil tongue in your head; insults go both ways.
Chas
tinydancer
"steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:steve-567CD8....@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
And you have this on what authority? Rape victims have many varied
responses. Have you ever been raped? You seem to have such strong opinions
on a subject you don't appear to have any first hand knowledge about, yet
feel qualified to speak for people's behaviors?
td
Nexus
"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:D8CdnbvyD8_...@comcast.com...
>
> Chas
>
Please have the balls to show your pathetic self in this ng after this case is laughed right out of court and please no
discussing how you go both ways.
Rich
> "broadway" <bl...@microsoft.com> wrote
> > So, a person who claims to be "traumatized" by a rape still has a solid
> case
> > even if they go out seeking the affection of absolute strangers and
> inviting
> > them home with them?
>
> Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
> addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
> for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
> She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
> As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
> against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
You know, I can't find any reference to this sort of thing at all.
Perhaps you can post some sort of a reference?
This is what is normally portrayed as the effect of rape.
http://www.nisaa.org.za/rape/effects.html
WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF RAPE?
Rape survivors go through 3 definable stages of rape trauma
syndrome: trauma, denial and resolution.
Trauma
------
Fear of being alone. This may be especially acute shortly after the
rape but could also continue for a long while afterwards.
Fear of men. A woman may be fearful and angry at all men. Counselling
can be especially helpful in preventing this from becoming a
long-lasting problem. Victims of date rape, especially, are left
doubting their choice of partners and wonder-ing how they can ever
again date safely.
Sexual problems. For some people, these may continue for a long time
since the sexual act now has been associated with strong negative
feelings. Again, counselling can often be helpful.
Depression. This can sometimes come and go over a long period of time.
Usually, the more a survivor can talk about her situation, the easier
it is for her to deal with her depression.
Fear of retaliation. Unfortunately, this may be a legitimate fear,
especially if charges are pressed. Such retaliation is in itself
illegal, and can result in additional charges. Any threat of
retaliation should be reported immediately to the police. If this is
not sufficient, a lawyer should be contacted to help obtain a
restraining order and to explore additional options.
Afraid to trust. This may only surface long after the rape has
occurred, when the survivor begins to date once more, and she fears it
might happen again.
Concern over reactions from family and friends. If the survivor
expects negative reactions, it's not always necessary to tell all
friends and family, yet they may be more supportive than anticipated.
Physical problems. These include venereal disease, as well as physical
symptoms of stress, such as stomach-aches, head-aches, back problems,
inability to sleep, diminished or increased appetite.
Feelings of anger, helplessness, guilt, pain, embarrassment or
anxiety. These are all typical reactions and generally disappear over
time.
Denial
------
As a way of coping with her emotional pain the survivor may suppress
her real feelings and will not want to think or talk about the
experience.
Resolution
----------
Dealing with doubts and fears. The most effective way to work through
these feelings is to talk to someone; a friend, your doctor, or
counsellor.
Regaining a sense of control over life. This will usually only begin
to happen after a survivor starts to deal with her doubts and fears.
Only then will she begin to put the experience behind her and be
empowered to once again have a normal life.
------------------------
I've not seen a "promiscuity" phase mentioned anywhere, and indeed,
it's quite contradictory with the effects assigned to rape. For
example, "fear of men" is not compatible with 'pick up guys at the
nightclub' at all, if she fears men she cannot and would not do this.
And it also states "sexual problems", also quite incompatible. In
fact, I've not seen any of the claimed (and widely publicacised)
effects of rape which are in any way compatible with promiscuity.
They are listed as wholly and strongly negative. If the effect of rape
was that a woman wanted to party and have fun (as Kobe's accuser did)
I think we'd have to re-visit it's severity as a crime. YMMV.
Please substantiate your claim.
Rich
> Chas
Chas
> Please have the balls to show your pathetic self in this ng after this
case is laughed right out of court
This is the same lawfirm that represented John and Patsy Ramsey-
sometimes they can keep it from ever even getting to court. Just because
there is a judgment of 'not proven guilty in a court of law', don't mistake
that it means 'innocent'.
Chas
Rich
> "D. Gerasimatos" <d...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu> wrote
> > .....What evidence is there, really, that
> > her night with Kobe was any different from, apparently, every other night
> > in her life?
>
> The fact that she didn't cry rape on any of them- one can safely assume she
> knows the difference between rape and acquiescence.
No, I don't think so. It appears that her mom was the one who called
the police. It looks possible that she needs an excuse for her mom,
although it's hard to tell for sure. Often false rape accusations are
make to justify consensual sex women have (that they should not) to
their husbands or families. For some reason, women appear ready to
make this sort of accusation at the drop of a hat. They know it works
and that it absolves them of all responsibility.
> See, the idea of her suing him for money is a fantasy set in the future- if
> at all.
I don't think that this fits the evidence either.
> There's certainly no present indication of any such motivation.
To be fair, the evidence does not support reaching any conclusions on
this front, and it also looks like it does not support that she was
raped either.
> We
> can hypothesize all we care to, but so far, the only real act has been for
> her to swear the complaint, and it's been vetted by a *bunch* of people.
I just posted a story of a man who was released after 17 years in
prison for a rape he did not commit, I'm sure he'd be assurred by
this.
> They could drop it anytime it seems to be unfounded.
But then, perhaps they have other motives as well? Winning a case like
this is a huge feather in any prosecutors hat, and I'm sure that there
are monetary rewards that go with this.
And if they drop it, I think that it will make them look bad. I don't
think they'll drop it, as a face saving maneuver, even if they can't
prove Kobe's guilt (which would seem a necessary starting condition,
YMMV).
> Chas
Rich
Rich
> In article <49f8c282dcf47ae3...@news.teranews.com>,
> <n...@spam.wanted> wrote:
> >On 5 Mar 2004 07:39:08 -0800, s_kn...@hotmail.com (s_knight8) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
> >>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
> >>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
> >>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
> >>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>
> >>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
> >>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
> >>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
>
> So he didn't want to lick her, but she made him do it. Got it.
I don't know what you got, but perhaps anti-biotics would help.
Again I don't think that what you posted follows at all, nor is it in
any way relevant to anything I can see, unless this is a passive
aggressive attack against Dawson for having the audacity to go public
with the events of the night.
Do you think her actions consistant with her having just been raped?
Do you think that they throw the slightest shadow of doubt on her
victimhood?
Rich
Chas
> No, I don't think so. It appears that her mom was the one who called
> the police. It looks possible that she needs an excuse for her mom,
> although it's hard to tell for sure.
You mean you think that her Mom thought she was a virgin or something? She
seems to have a reputation around town, and it's hard to believe that her
Mom would be unaware of it, or that she would feel the need to cover
something up.
They're a very liberal Jewish family, so I don't see where she would need to
lie to them.
> Often false rape accusations are
> make to justify consensual sex women have (that they should not) to
> their husbands or families.
She has no husband- if she is promiscuous in any case, there'd be no need to
lie.
You can't have it both ways- she's either a 'good girl', or there's no need
to cover anything up.
> > See, the idea of her suing him for money is a fantasy set in the future-
if
> > at all.
> I don't think that this fits the evidence either.
You may have a supposition, a fantasy, but there's no evidence presently of
any such motive.
> To be fair, the evidence does not support reaching any conclusions on
> this front, and it also looks like it does not support that she was
> raped either.
Far more evidence of rape than of any monetary motive on her part.
> I just posted a story of a man who was released after 17 years in
> prison for a rape he did not commit, I'm sure he'd be assurred by
> this.
Was there a rape in the first place but he was not the perpetrator, or was
she lying about the whole thing?
I didn't see your story.
> But then, perhaps they have other motives as well? Winning a case like
> this is a huge feather in any prosecutors hat, and I'm sure that there
> are monetary rewards that go with this.
Actually, this is an up-end tourist town, and they'd just as soon not
prosecute their bread&butter. As far as rumors go, the whole town is worried
shitless over having to confront Bryant.
> And if they drop it, I think that it will make them look bad. I don't
> think they'll drop it, as a face saving maneuver, even if they can't
> prove Kobe's guilt (which would seem a necessary starting condition,
I think the complaint is so well founded that they can't ignore it, much as
they wish they could. I think they've looked at every excuse they could
raise to drop the charges, and can't justify it at all.
Chas
Chas
> You know, I can't find any reference to this sort of thing at all.
> Perhaps you can post some sort of a reference?
I don't know if anyone has ever studied it. My opinion is based on my own
exposure to a lot of women who had been raped.
Sexual assault seems to be cited as common in the history of whores,
lesbians, promiscuous teen-age girls, and so on, but I couldn't find
anything that would just lead you by the hand with this case. Most studies
seem to be of women that don't cope well with the experience, others seem to
do 'better'.
Chas
Alex
news:dLm2c.31803$6e7....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>
> "steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:steve-567CD8....@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
> > You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
> > traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
> > around.
>
>
> And you have this on what authority? Rape victims have many varied
> responses. Have you ever been raped? You seem to have such strong opinions
> on a subject you don't appear to have any first hand knowledge about, yet
> feel qualified to speak for people's behaviors?
The thing is this girl did not behave much differently before or after.
What strikes me (and should strike you) is that she claimed she was
raped only to her boyfriend the bellhop (that certainly would get his
attention). Not her female supervisor. She went to bed and slept on
it and only told her mother the morning after.
Alex
Alex
news:steve-567CD8....@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
> > She has the
> > option of choosing with whom to be trampy; any scenario you choose, she
> > still has the choice to say nuh-uh.
>
>
> Right, even a prostitute can be raped.
But proving it in a court of law is and should be difficult -
especially if it is a he said/she said case.
Alex
Raul
> "steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote
> > You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
> > traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
> > around.
>
> And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
> reaction to being raped.
The poor excuses you apologists post can't be taken seriously. Can you
cite any research to back your claim?
But this might very well be common behaviour among whites. Your
perverseness is incredible.
Alex
news:3a256c50.0403...@posting.google.com...
> I've not seen a "promiscuity" phase mentioned anywhere, and indeed,
> it's quite contradictory with the effects assigned to rape.
I think people are (consciously or not) confusing the long-term
developmental effects of (childhood) abuse with the immediate
after effects of a traumatic rape.
> For example, "fear of men" is not compatible with 'pick up guys at the
> nightclub' at all, if she fears men she cannot and would not do this.
> And it also states "sexual problems", also quite incompatible. In
> fact, I've not seen any of the claimed (and widely publicacised)
> effects of rape which are in any way compatible with promiscuity.
> They are listed as wholly and strongly negative.
> If the effect of rape was that a woman wanted to party and have
> fun (as Kobe's accuser did) I think we'd have to re-visit it's severity
> as a crime. YMMV.
Good point.
And yes, even a bipolar nymphomaniac can be raped... but
going on to prove it in a court of law is another matter.
Alex
tinydancer
"Alex" <avdeele...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:404a26c9$0$24437$18b...@news.wanadoo.nl...
What strikes me the most is that many people don't want to wait for the
actual evidence to come out in a court of law. I don't know all of the
actual evidence and I don't think anyone here does yet. But I do get mighty
tired of the words slut, whore, tramp being bandied about.
As to your comment about not mentioning it to her female supervisor, I doubt
I would have either, reflecting back on my 'female superiors' at my place of
employment when I was this girls age. I don't know anything about this
girls female supervisor, but I know mine were snotty old biddies who were
never genuiinely friendly or kind to me. Now, if I happened to come upon
the young college guy who worked there part-time in maintanence, I probably
would've told him because I knew he cared about me as a person and would not
judge me or gossip about me. (By the way, I happened to have married him
and we've been together happily for many years).
As for the girls behavior prior to the incident. All we know so far is that
a young, unmarried girl possibly had sex two or three times in the month of
June. I'd hardly call that, by todays standards, slutty behavior.
td
>
>
Rich
> > You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
> > traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
> > around.
>
> And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
> reaction to being raped.
While every other authority on rape and rape crisis center lists the
effects as things which could not possibly result in promiscuity.
Either they are wrong, or you are wrong.
And I note that neither who make that claim have any supportive
evidence for it whatsoever.
> In addition, she may have fucked her squeeze, been raped by Kobe, and fucked
> her boyfriend willingly- that's not so much different from other women that
> are sexually active.
Except for the rape in the middle. By all claims of the effects of
rape she should be a basket case after, afraid of men, afraid of her
own shadow, and sexually dysfunctional.
> The point is that you have a fantasy about how women react to rape, and it's
> simply unfounded in reality.
I think you need to demonstate that your claims about the effects of
rape are grounded in reality Chas. Can you do it? Or are we just
supposed to take your word for it?
BTW, I don't see how you could experience promiscuity in these women
unless you were the ones they fucked after being raped. I'm quite
serious here, I don't see how your claims could be objectively
reached.
> Chas
Rich
tjab
Michael Fletcher <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote:
>
>
>Chas wrote:
>> "broadway" <bl...@microsoft.com> wrote
>>
>>>So, a person who claims to be "traumatized" by a rape still has a solid
>>
>> case
>>
>>>even if they go out seeking the affection of absolute strangers and
>>
>> inviting
>>
>>>them home with them?
>>
>>
>> Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
>> addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
>> for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
>> She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
>> As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
>> against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
>
Not nearly as weak as that as a counterargument.
tjab
Michael Fletcher <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote:
>
>
>tjab wrote:
>> In article <49f8c282dcf47ae3...@news.teranews.com>,
>> <n...@spam.wanted> wrote:
>>
>>>On 5 Mar 2004 07:39:08 -0800, s_kn...@hotmail.com (s_knight8) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
>>>>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
>>>>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
>>>>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
>>>>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>>>
>>>>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
>>>>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
>>>>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
>>>
>>
>
>Right -- because he went along with it, that means he MUST have
>instigated the encounter.
So (fill in the blanks) she's a _______ and he's a _______.
>You're a retard.
Get back to me when you grow up.
tjab
Michael Fletcher <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote:
>
>
>Messalina wrote:
>> Robert Lee <cranch...@earthpiddlydiddlydoolink.poop.net.peepee> wrote in message news:<Xns94A37884AF3...@207.217.125.205>...
>>
>>>Michael Snyder <msn...@redhat.com> wrote in news:c2ake2$jtt$1
>>>@stan.redhat.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Let's not. Let's just say, she's not acting like any "rape victim"
>>>>*I* ever heard of...
>>>
>>>Yeah, agreed.
>>
>>
>> Actually, wild behavior and promiscuity are very much a standard type
>> of behavior for rape survivors.
>
>So what about the wild behavior and promiscuity BEFORE she was "raped"?
How soon after having sex (consentual or otherwise) with her did
Kobe have sex with his wife?
May make him a skank but doesn't mean he raped her, you say?
Very good; maybe next you can figure out that the fact that
she had sex with someone else that week doesn't mean she
consented to sex with Kobe.
Ann
it's hard to know just what you're talking about here. but if you're
talking about people who have been raped becoming promiscuous then it
is well known that it's one of the possible long term effects. A
google search will show it.
Ann
Ann
>"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<VdWdnd66Vr_...@comcast.com>...
>> "steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote
>> > You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
>> > traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
>> > around.
>>
>> And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
>> reaction to being raped.
>
>The poor excuses you apologists post can't be taken seriously. Can you
>cite any research to back your claim?
Of course. It's difficult to find stuff that's actually on the web
but there is some.
http://www.crcl.org.uk/effects.html
http://www.crcl.org.uk/effects.html
There's plenty more in books but that would mean your making an effort
instead of relying on others to do it for you.
Ann
tjab
Rich <rpa...@mybluelight.com> wrote:
>"Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<gpmdnVTemKz...@comcast.com>...
>> "broadway" <bl...@microsoft.com> wrote
>> > So, a person who claims to be "traumatized" by a rape still has a solid
>> case
>> > even if they go out seeking the affection of absolute strangers and
>> inviting
>> > them home with them?
>>
>> Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
>> addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
>> for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
>> She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
>> As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
>> against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
>
>You know, I can't find any reference to this sort of thing at all.
>Perhaps you can post some sort of a reference?
Apparently you haven't been looking very hard:
Last Updated: 11/08/2001
Rape Trauma Syndrome
Acute Phase (generally lasting at least 2-6 weeks)
The initial immediate responses after a rape generally fall into 3 categories:
1. Expressed - the survivor is openly emoting
2. Controlled - the survivor is emotionless or acts as if nothing has
happened and "everything is fine"
3. Shocked Disbelief - similar to physical with very strong
disorientation
Common Responses (for weeks, sometimes months after rape)
extreme disorganization
inability to do simple common tasks
ritualistic behaviors (rigid schedule of behaviors)
disruption in normal sleep/eating patterns
re-occuring fear of violence and death
feeling of being insane
withdrawal from established relationships
inability to concentrate
Secondary Phase:
During this time we see an adoption of a primary coping technique including:
1. Minimization - "It could have been worse". Pretense that all is fine.
2. Dramatization - Incessant talking about the rape. Inability to have
definition outside of rape.
3. Suppression - No discussion - as if it didn't happen.
4. Explanation - Analytical approach often concerned with what the
rapist was thinking/feeling.
During the Secondary Phase the flight response is particularly high (moving,
changing jobs, changing relationships). This often becomes a permanent coping
mechanism. Additional symptoms include:
Self blame becomes more ingrained
Maladaptive coping mechanisms begin (substance abuse, promiscuity)
Many acute symptoms may persist
Depression and/or rage may set in. Survivor becomes more phobic
Survivor has more difficulty engaging in activities other than business
More of a sense of going through the motions
More emotional disconnection from self and others
Loss of intensity in joyous or other positive emotions
Erratic moods. Increase in sadness, helplessness and hopelessness.
Hypervigilance increases
Flashbacks, intrusive thoughts and nightmares increase
Difficulty concentrating
The Aftermath of Rape:
Common Short and Long Term Responses to Sexual Assault
Softening of pre-existing boundaries
Loss of ego strengthening behaviors
Increase in self-destructive behaviors
Loss of ability to maintain relationships and friendships
Isolating behaviors - both emotinal and physical
Decline in ability to choose healthy relationships
Decline in ability to discern unhealthy
or threatening behaviors in others
Loss of ego strength
Loss of belief in self
Diminshed abilty to enjoy things. Feelings of numbness and detatchment
Diminished ability to feel true emotions
Misplaced emotional responses
Inablity to perform at previously established competency levels
http://www.bozemanhelpcenter.com/rape_trauma_syndrome.htm
Michael Fletcher
tjab wrote:
>>>Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
>>>addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
>>>for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
>>>She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
>>>As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
>>>against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
>>
>>Weak.
>
>
> Not nearly as weak as that as a counterargument.
I've offered plenty of other counterarguments in other posts, you dumb
fuck. Sometimes one word is all it takes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
MF
See L.A. for class
On March 21 in Los Angeles, former Celtics great (who broke the hearts
of many Lakers fans) Bill Russell had his picture on the scoreboard.
The fans gave him a long ovation.
The previous night, when it was announced that Shaq O'Neal scored his
20,000th point, the fans in Sacramento booed. Then, to make matters
worse, a the game ball was defaced, presumably by a Sacramento fan.
Clinton E. Parish
Sacramento
Rest in Peace, Francis Dayle "Chick" Hearn : 1916 - 2002
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
>>To be fair, the evidence does not support reaching any conclusions on
>>this front, and it also looks like it does not support that she was
>>raped either.
>
>
> Far more evidence of rape than of any monetary motive on her part.
Umm... like what? Microscopic vaginal tears?
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "Michael Felcher" <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote
>
>>What do you mean, "what about it"? So she's so traumatized that she
>>carries on EXACTLY as she had been before?
>
>
> You know of her going to the room of another basketball player?
Are you saying that her sleeping with NBA players was commonplace
beforehand and has now changed because she's traumatized? Do you read
your own shit?
>
>
>>In another post in this thread you tried to spin this like she was being
>>slutty BECAUSE of the "rape." I remind you that she was just as lutty
>>prior to the "rape," effectively disproving your
>>slutty-as-a-result-of-"rape" theory and the best you've got is "um...
>>what about it?"
>
>
> And you've got no answer as to 'what about it'?
Except for the fact that I just answered.
> Her sexual proclivities are not what's on trial here, bud-
No, they aren't -- so that means we should ignore the mountain of
evidence pointing to her being a liar?
>
>
>>..... make it obvious
>>that nothing that happened in that room really affected her actions very
>>much at all.
>
>
> You have no idea what went on in her mind. You've not been raped- probably
> don't know anyone who's been raped.
> You're theorizing in a vaccuum, bud.
No, I'm not. I'm saying nothing that happened in there affected her
ACTIONS. I never mentioned her mental thing at all. Actions are
concrete; anyone can see what she does, whereas not everyone can see
what she's thinking. I see her actions as being just about the same as
they were prior to the "rape," meaning that... well... you figure it out.
>
>
>>>And don't tell me about being a golddigger
>>
>>Because you don't want to hear it because it wipes its ass with your case?
>
>
> Produce one shred of evidence, besides your fantasy.
Why would I fantasize about it?
Why the hell else would she change her story to the police? Why would
she need her mom to tell her she was raped? Why would she show up to the
lab with DIRTY PANTIES!? What was her motive there!? Did she think the
lab would see blood and semen and just assume it was Kobe's?
Maybe she wants him in prison for something other than money, but it's
obvious she knows she's full of shit and she's carrying on anyway.
>
>
>>Are you going to instult my mom now?
>
>
> She seems to be the model by which you judge women-
Really? And you base that on...
>I think that's trouble
> enough for her, and you.
I don't think she has to worry too much about it anymore.
>
> Chas
Michael Fletcher
tjab wrote:
>>>
>>>Actually, wild behavior and promiscuity are very much a standard type
>>>of behavior for rape survivors.
>>
>>So what about the wild behavior and promiscuity BEFORE she was "raped"?
>
>
> How soon after having sex (consentual or otherwise) with her did
> Kobe have sex with his wife?
>
> May make him a skank but doesn't mean he raped her, you say?
> Very good; maybe next you can figure out that the fact that
> she had sex with someone else that week doesn't mean she
> consented to sex with Kobe.
Yeah, and maybe elephants will fly from your ass.
Is this the best you got? No wonder the prosecution is getting laughed at.
So far no one is producing any evidence that she was actually raped --
they're just playing the "that doesn't mean she wasn't raped!!!" card
in the face of the never-ending flow of evidence the defense is
fidning... do you assholes really think that's going to be enough?
Michael Fletcher
tjab wrote:
>>>>>Over the August long weekend, Dawson was with friends at Outlaws
>>>>>Niteclub when a woman he never met asked if her friends could take a
>>>>>picture of them. Those photos -- taken after the alleged rape -- shows
>>>>>Bryant's accuser dancing, kissing and being licked by Dawson -- and
>>>>>landed Dawson on the front of the Globe.
>>>>
>>>>>"She was the only girl in the bar acting that way -- you usually don't
>>>>>have girls going up to you like that," said Dawson, who maintains the
>>>>>young woman was the instigator of the encounter.
>>>>
>>>So he didn't want to lick her, but she made him do it. Got it.'
>>
>>Right -- because he went along with it, that means he MUST have
>>instigated the encounter.
>
>
> So (fill in the blanks) she's a _______ and he's a _______.
It doesn't fucking matter what he or she is. Quit trying to muck up the
barrel to cover up for the fact that this girl ain't got shit on Kobe.
You tried to spin it like the fact that this dude went along with her
meant he instigated the encounter -- I pointed out what a dicknose you are.
>
>
>>You're a retard.
>
>
> Get back to me when you grow up.
Get back to me when you've got a point to make.
Michael Fletcher
Rich wrote:
>
> Do you think that they throw the slightest shadow of doubt on her
> victimhood?
Tjab? You there, man?
>
> Rich
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote
>
>>You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
>>traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
>>around.
>
>
> And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
> reaction to being raped.
Actually, when you were asked for some evidence all you said was "well,
that's I've seen."
Just thought I'd clear that up.
Oh, there was that other thing -- the one where Rich provided a mountain
of evidence pointing to your stance being crap.
But carry on, anyway...see if you can get Steve to bite on your
crap...err.. case.
Ann
<mfle...@serverart.org> wrote:
>
>
>tjab wrote:
>
>>>>Sure. Some women become promiscuous, others sink into alcoholism or drug
>>>>addiction, others agoraphobic and reclusive, others suicidal. Women, and men
>>>>for that matter, have all sorts of reactions to such an indignity.
>>>>She may have had sex with a procession of men, only one of whom raped her.
>>>>As it is a crime of violence rather than sex, she may make a formation
>>>>against being violated that has nothing to do with her sex life.
>>>
>>>Weak.
>>
>>
>> Not nearly as weak as that as a counterargument.
>
>I've offered plenty of other counterarguments in other posts, you dumb
>fuck. Sometimes one word is all it takes.
Probably all it takes is the word "dumbfuck" to make people switch off
completely and delete you unread. If you really want to make a
difference then quit the insults.
Ann
Michael Fletcher
Raul wrote:
> "Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<VdWdnd66Vr_...@comcast.com>...
>
>>"steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
>>>traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
>>>around.
>>
>>And you've been told, by two people now, that promiscuity is a common
>>reaction to being raped.
>
>
> The poor excuses you apologists post can't be taken seriously. Can you
> cite any research to back your claim?
Nope. He just goes on "what he's seen..."
Rich, on the other hand, provided some pretty conclusive evidence to
counter Chas. Chas had no comment.
>
> But this might very well be common behaviour among whites. Your
> perverseness is incredible.
Whoooookay there buddy... leave the race card alone.
Robert Lee
4ax.com:
> Of course. It's difficult to find stuff that's actually on the web
> but there is some.
>
> http://www.crcl.org.uk/effects.html
Yep, there it is, listed as a long term effect, as I thought it would be.
I've known a bunch of women who were raped, and I've known a few who went
into downward promiscuous cycles afterward, but not *right* afterward.
The thing that makes me a little queasy about this story, if it's true,
is that it happens in the period when, up to now, the girl's supporters
have claimed she was distraught and suicidal and had to go to rehab and
whatnot. That really doesn't jibe with a girl, a month after the alleged
rape, writhing all over a bar on vacation.
FWIW, in case anybody who wants to argue with me doesn't remember, I've
been one of the bigger constesters, here, against guys hooting "she's a
slut" and "she's psycho" and generally celebrating some of the sleazier
moves of Bryant's defense. I remain so. This, however, casts serious
doubt on her story that we've heard so far and, again, those of her
supporters.
As always, however, I'm waiting for the trial to make judgements. I still
have no clue who's telling the truth, here, and am resigned to possibly
not knowing after the trial, either.
--
--Robert
When the log rolls over, we'll all be dead
Michael Fletcher
Ann wrote:
>
>
> Of course. It's difficult to find stuff that's actually on the web
> but there is some.
I wonder why it's so difficult to find...
>
> http://www.crcl.org.uk/effects.html
>
> http://www.crcl.org.uk/effects.html
>
> There's plenty more in books but that would mean your making an effort
> instead of relying on others to do it for you.
Actually, this site said promiscuity was a "long term" effect. Has it
been that long, really? I thought "long term" meant way down the road.
And wasn't she promiscuous before the "rape" took place? So uh... how,
then, is her promiscuity a "long term" affect of the rape?
>
> Ann
>
>
>>But this might very well be common behaviour among whites. Your
>>perverseness is incredible.
>
>
Michael Fletcher
Give it up, Rich. No matter what you throw at these guys they'll still
say "doesn't mean she wasn't raped!!"
EAGLE, CO -- The prosecution today announced that it was dropping its
sexual assault case against Laker star Kobe Bryant after the alleged
victim's statements to the press yesterday.
Saying she was tired of lying and trying to be someone she wasn't, the
alleged victim, now identified as Katelyn Faber, said:
"Look... I wasn't raped, he stopped when I asked him to. I was just a
little intimidated by him being such a big star, when our encounter only
lasted 10 minutes, I was just a little hurt. I was angry. I wanted to
get back at him, and my mom knew that the money we'd get could cover a
lot of expenses. I'm sorry."
Kobe Bryant could not be reached for comment.
Chas: DOESN'T MEAN SHE WASN'T RAPED! DAMMIT! This is just how rape
victims react; they're always walking around dropping charges and saying
nothing happened and admitting to lying -- doesn't mean she couldn't
have been raped.
tjab: So if Kobe says someone murdered him, then he says that the guy
didn't... what does that make Kobe? Was he murdered or not? None of this
means the girl wasn't raped!
>
>
>>Chas
>
>
> Rich
Michael Fletcher
tinydancer wrote:
>
> As for the girls behavior prior to the incident. All we know so far is that
> a young, unmarried girl possibly had sex two or three times in the month of
> June.
What the fuck are you talking about??
She wore panties with fresh blood and semen from ANOTHER MAN to her
examination! She had sex with three guys in the same few days she was
with KOBE!
>I'd hardly call that, by todays standards, slutty behavior.
Yeah, well get a fucking clue first.
>
> td
n...@spam.email
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Michael Felcher" <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote
>> What do you mean, "what about it"? So she's so traumatized that she
>> carries on EXACTLY as she had been before?
>
>You know of her going to the room of another basketball player?
His profession doesn't make a difference, doofus.
>> In another post in this thread you tried to spin this like she was being
>> slutty BECAUSE of the "rape." I remind you that she was just as lutty
>> prior to the "rape," effectively disproving your
>> slutty-as-a-result-of-"rape" theory and the best you've got is "um...
>> what about it?"
>
>And you've got no answer as to 'what about it'?
>Her sexual proclivities are not what's on trial here, bud-
Yeah, but a man's life, reputation, and freedom are at stack, moron.
He has every right to confront his accuse and the evidence.
It is a legitimate tactic to question the credibility of such a person,
who goes to sleep with someone few hours after such a "horrible" crime
that she was the "victim" of.
>>..... make it obvious
>> that nothing that happened in that room really affected her actions very
>> much at all.
>
>You have no idea what went on in her mind.
Neither do you.
>You've not been raped-
Neither you were.
>probably
>don't know anyone who's been raped.
How do you know?
You have yet to make sense in your argument.
>You're theorizing in a vaccuum, bud.
Look in the mirror.
>> > And don't tell me about being a golddigger
>> Because you don't want to hear it because it wipes its ass with your case?
>
>Produce one shred of evidence, besides your fantasy.
There are plenty out there, but you're either stupid or blind, or both.
Here is an incomplete list:
1. Her demeanor.
2. Sleeping with others few hours after allegedly being raped.
3. Going on vacation few hours after reporting the incident.
4. Going to a party, few days after the alleged rape, joking about the
size of Kobe's "thing" in public.
5. Throwing herself on Kobe.
6. Getting a lawyer, why would someone who got "raped" get a lawyer?
7. Taking almost 12 Hrs to report such a thing, and after discussing it
with her mom, and her mom telling her that she got raped and they should
go to the police.
>> Are you going to instult my mom now?
>
>She seems to be the model by which you judge women- I think that's trouble
>enough for her, and you.
Truth hurts, bitch.
The problem with you, is you think that the whole world should act like
you, and they should find him guilty without finding the truth.
n...@spam.email
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Then keep a civil tongue in your head;
Heed your own advice.
>insults go both ways.
That is not true in your case.
Right from the start, anyone who posted anything in this thread got your
lame "your mom" insults from you.
n...@spam.email
<chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Nexus" <nexus@at&t.net> wrote
>> Please have the balls to show your pathetic self in this ng after this
>case is laughed right out of court
>
>This is the same lawfirm that represented John and Patsy Ramsey-
>sometimes they can keep it from ever even getting to court. Just because
>there is a judgment of 'not proven guilty in a court of law', don't mistake
>that it means 'innocent'.
So we should all assume that the accused is guilty until proven
otherwise?
You should move to the middle east or some third world country.
n...@spam.email
wrote:
>
>"steve sullivan" <st...@spamhotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:steve-567CD8....@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
>> In article <X_2dnX6rJad...@comcast.com>,
>> "Chas" <chasclem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I'll be happy to.
>> > Let's say she is an absolute tramp- you know, like your Mom.
>>
>> You are one fucked up asshole.
>>
>> >She has the
>> > option of choosing with whom to be trampy; any scenario you choose, she
>> > still has the choice to say nuh-uh.
>>
>>
>> Right, even a prostitute can be raped.
>>
>>
>> > In fact, if she is a tramp, one would presuppose that she knows the
>> > difference between consent and refusal on a very personal basis, and her
>> > perception of the event could be counted upon to be fully informed.
>> > You know, like your Mom.
>>
>> You still havent answered the question. If she got raped she would be
>> traumatized and would act in accordance, and WOULD NOT go slutting
>> around.
>
>
>And you have this on what authority? Rape victims have many varied
>responses. Have you ever been raped? You seem to have such strong opinions
>on a subject you don't appear to have any first hand knowledge about, yet
>feel qualified to speak for people's behaviors?
>
It doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it.
A person being a victim of rape can have some weird behavior after a
while, that makes sense, but not within 15 hours of the alleged rape,
goes to have sex with someone else.
Chas
> Rich, on the other hand, provided some pretty conclusive evidence to
> counter Chas. Chas had no comment.
I answered it in the next post after his-
and he's got plenty more after that too.
> > But this might very well be common behaviour among whites. Your
> > perverseness is incredible.
> Whoooookay there buddy... leave the race card alone.
Why?
Kobe's people played the race card instantly- the accuser should bring up
that it's just as likely that he was raping a Jew to get back for the
depredations against his race, as that she had any animus towards blacks,
much less the town.
Chas
Chas
> BTW, I don't see how you could experience promiscuity in these women
> unless you were the ones they fucked after being raped. I'm quite
> serious here, I don't see how your claims could be objectively
> reached.
Actually, I related just that story when discussing this before.
A friend of mine was raped by a pimp for giving shelter to one of his girls.
She went to college with the woman, and had no other contact. He beat her
up; rough assault and the rape.
She wanted to be comforted; treated tenderly. I have to admit I was
surprised at the time, but it seemed appropriate.
Chas
Chas
> Actually, when you were asked for some evidence all you said was "well,
> that's I've seen."
And you got a couple of good cites from someone else-
seemed sufficient, for anyone but you guys anyway.
Chas
Chas
> 1. Her demeanor.
> 2. Sleeping with others few hours after allegedly being raped.
> 3. Going on vacation few hours after reporting the incident.
> 4. Going to a party, few days after the alleged rape, joking about the
> size of Kobe's "thing" in public.
> 5. Throwing herself on Kobe.
> 6. Getting a lawyer, why would someone who got "raped" get a lawyer?
> 7. Taking almost 12 Hrs to report such a thing, and after discussing it
> with her mom, and her mom telling her that she got raped and they should
> go to the police.
None of which has anything to do with any mercenary motivation on her part.
Do you even *read* any of the shit you post?
Chas
Chas
> Right from the start, anyone who posted anything in this thread got your
> lame "your mom" insults from you.
No; they started with 'skank' or whatever, and we just went from there.
People don't mind insults until they're the ones being insulted- it's just
tit for tat.
Chas
Michael Fletcher
Just calling it like I see it. If he can't handle it then he can run away.
>
> Ann
Michael Fletcher
Chas wrote:
> "Michael Felcher" <mfle...@serverart.org> wrote \
>
>>Rich, on the other hand, provided some pretty conclusive evidence to
>>counter Chas. Chas had no comment.
>
>
> I answered it in the next post after his-
If by "answered" you mean "dodged."
> and he's got plenty more after that too.
>
>
>>>But this might very well be common behaviour among whites. Your
>>>perverseness is incredible.
>>
>>Whoooookay there buddy... leave the race card alone.
>
>
> Why?
> Kobe's people played the race card instantly- the accuser should bring up
> that it's just as likely that he was raping a Jew to get back for the
> depredations against his race, as that she had any animus towards blacks,
> much less the town.
Kobe's people only used race because of demographics in the small hick
town of Eagle... they were considering having the trial moved.
Do try to kep up.
>
> Chas