neighbor encroaching my property
SS
(or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one would
use to build decks. I am almost positive part of it is sticking in our
property based on my sprinkler positions. Last year I saw that my sprinklers
were well within my property (may be by 6") based on stakes left by builder.
This year the stake seems to have been moved (we saw the neighbors pounding
on the stake one day) and my corner sprinkler is all of a sudden smack at
the boundary (a tad even outside the artificial boundary created by them).
These neighbors (esp the wife who we believe is seeing shrinks for her
mental problems) are so nasty they called the cops on us once when the lawn
moving people we had hired had accidentally mowed about 6" on their side.
When we called the builder he referred us to the surveyor who did the
original survey. He wants $300 for detecting the iron bars they have buried
in the ground. Let's say we go ahead and hire him and he discovers that part
of their flower bed is on our side. Then what? Do I get him to give this in
writing - 'cause if he puts some stakes showing exact boundary, my neighbors
can always remove them behind our back. If I could get the surveyor to give
this in writing, do I then call a police to lodge a case on the same day?
What recourse do I have to get the money I spent as well get the neighbors
to move their flower bed and resod the lawn? I am not sure how to proceed
further once I get the surveyor on the scene. I cannot even begin to
describe the damage their dog has caused in our lawn. Please note that we
are not in talking terms and hence we cannot approach them for anything.
thanks
SS
David J. Bockman
even without the aid of a metal detector. Most corner markers protrude from
the ground at least a tiny bit, and you have the advantage of having
(apparently) recent construction and a general idea where the boundaries
are.
If your neighbor has purposefully encroached on the line or built past it,
he's breaking the law in most places and can be sued in civil court for
damages. It reads as if you need a mediator!
--
David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email: d...@bunabayashi.com
SS <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
bill
>
>
<snip>
You should be talking to a lawyer.
Bill
pirhanna
we're talking about a 2 to 3 inch 'PROBLEM'. Right?
Well, your wife should be so lucky.
A friggin flower bed. Who gives a flying brick.
If it were a six foot, concrete wall, I might see your bitch.
But, as it is, there is no doubt that if this guy were a part of your foursome,
or a fellow 'lane-banger',
there wouldnt be a problem. Right?
Of course I'm right.
Either fagetaboudit.
or shoot his wife,
bury her under the friggin flower bed.
THEN call the surveyor.
THEN have someone dig up the flower bed to move it
(becasue HE will be too distraught to bother about it)
Discover her body, and he will be arrested for murder.
OH. Be sure to 'accidentally' drop one of his shirt buttons
or some other personal item in the sod with his wife's body
before you replant the tulips.
I'm going to crawl off to my cave now.
~~~~ good luck world.
William Locksley
Carla
have the surveyor place markers on the line. You can sue them once you
discover where the line is even if just to recover your costs. I'd sue and
let the courts handle it without bothering to tell the encroachers. If you
have the location in writing by a certified surveyor qualified to determine
such markings, then the neighbors cannot encroach on your land and if you
end up in court, they will have to pay for the damages and costs to you for
messing up your property.
I'd tell you to find the line them cut their flower bed at the line and toss
the parts onto their lawn, but then they could sue for damages and it would
get ugly even if they are on your property. Not sure if they'd be found at
fault if you tore of their wood and dirt that is on your property. Not sure
how that part works. I'd just go to court and sue them and make THEM move
it.
"SS" <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
v.
motley fool wrote:
>When we called the builder...
Think a minute. What is the builder going to do? He's sold the
property to you (and apparently them too). Now you two neighbors have
a dispute. Why is the builder involved, he didn't do anything. Not
like you are both complaining about a defect in your houses, which
would be something the builder did. Instead you neighbors are in
dispute, the builder would be NUTS to get between you. Do you really
think he is gonna take sides in this (telling either of you, that you
are right and the other wrong, is taking sides).
>... he referred us to the surveyor who did the
>original survey.
Now you're getting somewhere. Builders build. Surveyors find
property lines. Though maybe you want a DIFFERENT surveyor, in case
this one made a mistake last time around?
> He wants $300 for detecting the iron bars they have buried
>in the ground.
Well, I hope that is a misunderstanding on your part. That would be
PART of what the surveyor does. They should also re-survey and verify
by measurement against the deed description where the lines are. It
is your deed that will control, the "pins" could be in the wrong
place. (Maybe you should get a different surveyor....)
> Let's say we go ahead and hire him and he discovers that part
>of their flower bed is on our side. Then what? Do I get him to give this in
>writing
Well, you should get a survey drawing that shows where things are, and
he will mark the corners. That's better than "in writing". But if it
would make you feel beter, for an extra fee, maybe he'd give you an
opinion letter about the beds, too.
> - 'cause if he puts some stakes showing exact boundary, my neighbors
>can always remove them behind our back.
In most states that is illegal. Of course people can break the law,
and that could give you an actual crime to complain about. For an
additional charge, surveyors can set god awful big stone or concrete
"monuments" on your corners that should be obvious if they were moved.
>.... do I then call a police to lodge a case on the same day?
What is the crime? The police will likely tell you to go sue them
civilly. Police have better things to do with their time than get
tied up in something like this. Like responding to accidents,
muggings, robberies, drug dealing, even shoplifting sounds like a more
urgent call then what you are suggesting.
>What recourse do I have to get the money I spent as well get the neighbors
>to move their flower bed and resod the lawn?
You sound just as anal as the neighbor, IMHO. Go ahead and sue them
for damages in small claims court. In my state (YMMV) you'd not have
chance in hell of getting the survey fee, that would just be what it
was worth to you to prove your point. What will you pump up this
"resod" to be? Can you spend $5 on a bag of seed instead?
> I cannot even begin to
>describe the damage their dog has caused in our lawn.
What are you waiting for, sue them for that.
Having heard your side of it, you may have a valid gripe. But sounds
like you want others to do all the work for you. Like call the police
and they will come right over and make the neighbor move the bed.
YEAH RIGHT.
If you want to win, you will have to fight. See a lawyer. It will
cost far more than $300 survey fee you are so worried about.
good luck, you'll need it.
-v.
v.
motley fool wrote:
>...... You can sue them once you
>discover where the line is even if just to recover your costs.
Not in the US (generally). The "American Rule" is that litigants pay
their own costs. Common exceptions are contract actions where costs
are spelled out in the contract in advance, and statutory exceptions
as in "consumer protection" cases to "level the playing field" so that
the little guy can sue the big guy. This aint one of those cases. If
he goes in expecting to get his costs back, he's gonna be disapointed.
Often when a court judgement is "plus costs" that is only referring to
filing fees and the like. Plus LEGAL fees is a whole different ball
park. To say nothing of surveyor fees.
regards,
-v.
CLK
You can do it yourself or pay someone to put the fence up regardless
of the flower bed. The when your neighbor bitches about it, you have
the legal papers saying it's your fence, your land and your right. No
reason to take something like this to court. Let your neighbor waste
his time and money filing suit. You have the law on your side, right?
Carl
Remove the trash before replying....
Jay O'Brien
best bet is to do whatever you can to reason with your neighbor. Although
you are not on talking terms, now is the time to try to make amends.
Perhaps it is a misunderstanding. Perhaps he has some justifiable reason to
think the boundary is where it is. Try to be as conciliatory and
nonconfrontational as you can without conceding anything. What you want to
avoid if possible is a polarization of positions that will require you to
spend what is likely much more money than the property in question is worth.
If your neighbor digs his heals in and you want to force the issue, one of
the first things you will want to do is have a surveyor tell you where the
boundary really is. You may have already done this while in your "nice guy"
mode. If your neighbor has moved the survey irons, you should have them
replaced. If the surveyor indicates that your neighbor is clearly
encroaching upon your property and you still want to force the issue, you
should speak with an attorney (the first thing a lawyer will have you do is
get the survey so you may as well find out if you have a case before
starting the clock ticking). The procedure for enforcing your property
rights can be very state specific. Since the neighbor has already installed
improvements on the land, the safest (but most expensive) option will likely
be to go to court and eject your neighbor. If your neighbor really believes
he owns the property, you can probably expect him to make a counterclaim
against you seeking to quiet title to the property in question. These are
not complex claims but only the most sophisticated layman would want to
handle them without an attorney's assistance at some point along the way.
In general, the police do not like to get involved in these things. If they
are called out to the home, they will usually come out to make sure that no
one is about to get into a fight. However, more often than not, they will
tell the two sides to speak with their attorneys about any boundary line
dispute.
If you want to avoid court, you can simply install a fence. This option is
risky since it will require you to remove whatever he has installed on your
property. Again, this could result in him bringing a claim against you (for
either quiet title or damage to his personal property) if he really thinks
he has a case. It could also result in a physical confrontation. On the
other hand, if he realizes he has a poor case, he might not call your bluff.
Police will likely play a role. If you simply go out and build a fence and
you neighbor sees you, expect to have the police out there. In fact, given
your description of the situation, it may be you calling the police.
Again, the officer may simply say that if the parties have a problem to
speak with their lawyers. If you are lucky, you will be able to continue to
build your fence. If you are unlucky, you may be cited for trespass (or a
similar criminal violation). Again, this can be a risky proposition since
your neighbor has already installed improvements on your property that you
will have to remove.
In any event, if you cannot reach some sort of mutually agreeable settlement
and you decide to force the issue (either by bringing suit or through
unilateral action), be prepared for tremendous fallout. Not surprisingly,
all of my clients who have forced the issue now have terrible relationships
with their neighbors. In one case, the only communication that now takes
place is through display of the middle finger. I keep telling my client
that his neighbor is really telling him that he the Number One fence builder
in the area but the humor has worn thin. Furthermore, getting your expenses
back may be impossible. Again, it really depends on the jurisdiction you
are in.
Good luck.
"SS" <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
redwood
I had an uncle who was a surveyor, as strong Christian and, as I look back,
a man of some wisdom. His opinion was that your deed says that you have x
number of feet and whenever you sell, that's what you will have to offer.
Your relationship with the neighbor might be more important than the
maintenance of a small area of ground.
--
Redwood
"pirhanna" <pirh...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3B3A9500...@bellsouth.net...
Night23
>
> Your relationship with the neighbor might be more important than the
> maintenance of a small area of ground.
not with one who is a pain in the ass though.
Furbit
work in Canadian Hemlock, it's peaceful.
db...@sprynet.com
check with your homestead, mort. company, they sent me three copies.
if they cant help you, contact the surveyor and see who he gave them to
or can he just make a copy from his files and then give you a copy.
with my survey copy, it shows a 71 ft. by 71 ft. lot and it has the
house listed on the site, 30 X60 ft. and i can then just take a tape and
measure xx no. of feet to the side or back or front to find what i own.
you can get a tape at home depot for a few dollars, 50 ft or 100 ft?
or do you need a larger one, you dont need a good one like a contractor
needs who uses one every day... note: the measurements on the survey are
in feet, 10ths of foot NOT inches. so 50.5 is 50 feet 1/2 foot
no 50 feet 5 inches.
so you can save the $300 for another survey...........................
and maybe when the contractors put the sticks in the ground they might
have put them in the wrong place. when my house was being built my young
nephews pulled the sticks out of the ground, my auant made them put them
back, well they did, not right back where they belonged. the fence guys
also made a few mistakes and put some sticks in the ground, i had to
correct them to make sure i never had any trouble later. so my fence
might be off 1/2 inch, how you gonna put up a fence right on the line,
it has a tickness of maybe 4 inches or better with the 1 inch thick
board, the 2X4's and the pipes in the ground..........................
maybe you should just put up a fence and the neighbors will stop
bothering you.......
Vox Humana
> (or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one
would
> use to build decks
Do you happen to live in a planned unit development with a homeowners
association? There are usually rules about setbacks for flower bed and
other things. If so, I would contact them for some help. I had my lot
surveyed and then had to have them back a year or so later to relocate the
pins. I believe that it was either free or under $50. You might call
around and for prices. I think the survey is the place to start. If he
hasn't encroached on your property then the dispute will be resolved. As
the old saying goes, "fences make good neighbors." The survey and fence
will put you back a few dollars, but it might be worth it. I have read that
the average family moves about every two years. I live in a neighborhood of
young, middle class families. In the five year that I have lived here 70%
of the houses on my street have changed hands. If you can wait it out,
there is a good chance that one of you will move in the next few years. In
any case, it would be a good idea to talk to an attorney after you get the
survey if he has placed the flower bed on your property. I think that you
need to at least notify him that you are aware of the encroachment. I
understand that under some circumstances people can obtain ownership of
property by using it (I know, I listen to too much Bruce Williams). You
should discuss the legal aspects of putting in a fence with the attorney
also.
Priscilla H Ballou
: These neighbors (esp the wife who we believe is seeing shrinks for her
: mental problems) are so nasty they called the cops on us once when the lawn
: moving people we had hired had accidentally mowed about 6" on their side.
Excuse me? What does the neighbor's illness have to do with
anything.
If how you treat people have sought mental health services is a sign of
your character, I wonder what else you aren't telling us with might bear
on the case.
Priscilla
--
The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be
pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.
-- Elizabeth Taylor
Zeuspaul
should be indicated on the map. With the aide of the map you should be able to
find the surveyor's marks.
Builders generally do not set property markers. I wouldn't rely on wood stakes
set by a builder to be property line markers. Once you find the survey
monuments (iron pins or other) eyeball between them or pull a string line.
If you then find the property line to be where you thought it was then proceed
with your next step. No sense spending any money if the planter is not on your
property.
You can ask a surveyor to survey the one property line. Part of a survey is to
indicate encroachments on property lines. Discuss it with the surveyor before
he does the job. He will make a small map indicating the line and the
encroachments.
Then use the survey document to either discuss it with your neighbor..call the
cops (sometimes they are willing to make an attempt at giving a helping
hand...especially if you have a legal survey backing up your claim...or take it
to small claims court.
Zeuspaul
~Lori
really arguing over a coupla boards?
God help us all......
~Lori
Pooky
houses, over the property line by a good 4 feet. They stuck a fast growing
tree right on our side of the line while she had the boat out, and it stayed
13 years till we moved. Not only was the tree a boon to my folks property
(us kids loved it) but it solved the problem of her parking the boat there,
which blocked our gate. (The meter readers could not even get into the yard
because of it!) When we moved and sold the house, we returned to find it
chopped down and her junk on the wrong side of the property line again.
Thankfully my folks have better neighbors now.
Just their solution to the problematic neighbor. And relations were always
strained betwixt them.
--
~Pooky~
Put the cat out to reply by e-mail. ;^)
http://moonkatz.tripod.com/index.htm
Zone 9a/b
SS <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
: We have a problematic neighbor who has put up a long rectangular flowerbed
:
:
Joann M. Hnat
>
> We have a problematic neighbor who has put up a long rectangular flowerbed
> (or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one would
> use to build decks. I am almost positive part of it is sticking in our
> property based on my sprinkler positions.
You're past this point, but for any others who may be reading, be aware
of the legal concept of adverse possession: If a neighboring landowner
uses part of your land under claim of title (i.e., while believing that
the land is his), then the land *becomes* his after a 21-year
uninterrupted period.
So, if a person decides to be a nice guy and let them use his land, he
must be sure that they realize that the land is not theirs. At the very
least, have them sign a letter stating that the piece of land they're
using (describe it as well as you can) is *not* theirs.
Of course, in your case, it sounds like they *don't* agree that the land
is yours, and you *don't* want them using it. I would seek out an
attorney experienced in real estate law. This is a specialized area, and
if you do it yourself, you'll probably miss something. I've been a
lawyer for 20 years, and I wouldn't do it myself.
Before you go to the lawyer, gather all the documents you'll need (deed,
survey, etc.), take pictures of the offending flower bed as it sits on
your property, and write a brief statement of what has happened. Don't
bother venting to the attorney about the mentally ill wife or how
frustrated you are. Remember, you're paying by the hour, so keep it
brief and businesslike.
BTW, don't bother going to the police. They're not going to tell you to
tear up the flower bed. They'll just tell you to see a lawyer.
.. Joann
Starr Cash
wrote:
*for any others who may be reading, be aware
*of the legal concept of adverse possession: If a neighboring
landowner
*uses part of your land under claim of title (i.e., while believing
that
*the land is his), then the land *becomes* his after a 21-year
*uninterrupted period.
Is this "for-sure" true? I never heard of this before. I have a
pretty big property. When we bought it our neighbor told us that he
had built his pasture fence a short distance onto our property because
the actual line runs through woods. We're OK with that. However, now
he has sold his place and the new owners will be moving in next month.
Do we need to formally make sure they are aware of this fence
encroachment to avoid this adverse possession? This is certainly not
a case of hard feelings between neighbors, just making sure I am not
giving away any land it was hard enough to afford to buy!
Walt
my property". Six inches could very easily be within the margin
of error; not only of the survey, but how straight you draw the
line from the corner stakes afterward.
Walt
It could also have been very innocent. The neighbor could have hit
the wooden stake while mowing, or something, and just moved it an
inch or two to more "firm" ground. Matter of fact, who knows who
might have moved those builder's stakes during construction or
landscaping???
Walt
In some places, the location of a fence can "override" a deed
or survey as the correct boundary between properties.
pge
The fact that you'vegiven permission to use the land is means that the
possession is not "adverse".
In article <3k0mjto9p7bfopja9...@4ax.com>, Starr says...
pge
Instead of worrying about what ifs, get the survey and see if there is a
problem. If not, end of story. For an extra charge you can get the surveyor to
install stone corner markers.
In article <tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com>, "SS" says...
KrisHur
w/your knowledge but AGAINST your wishes: like the squatters in NYC--the
owners know that the people are there, they don't want them there, the
squatters stay anyway and in 20 years can go to court and try to claim the
property.
"pge" <pge_m...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9hf42...@drn.newsguy.com...
KrisHur
right.
"SS" <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
Jonathan Kamens
their flower bed is encroaching on your property. That's the first
step.
There's no need to be rude or accuse the neighbor of intentional
encroachment in this first letter, even if you believe that their
encroachment was in fact intentional. Point out to them that you
noticed them relocating the boundary stake, presumably because it had
become dislodged from the ground, and that you believe the position to
which they relocated it is incorrect. Point out to them that your
sprinklers have not moved, and yet they are now right at the boundary
line marked by the stake when before they were several inches inside
the boundary line.
The point of suggesting that your neighbor made a legitimate error,
rather than accusing them of intentional encroachment, is to give them
room to back down and agree to solve the problem without losing face.
By all means, see if you can locate the iron boundary markers yourself
before calling the surveyor. Go to where you believe the corner of
the property is and dig around a little bit. You shouldn't have to go
too deep to find the iron post the surveyor left there. If you do
locate it, you can point this out in your letter as additional
confirmation that the wooden stake is no longer in the right place.
Say in your letter that you would like to talk with them to work out a
reasonable solution to the problem of the encroaching flower bed. Do
not demand immediately that they remove the flower bed.
Ask at the end of your letter for them to get in touch with you as
soon as possible to discuss the resolution of the problem.
Compromise solutions that you might consider include: allow the flower
bed to remain there, but make your neighbors sign a written statement
that they understand that you are allowing them to use your property
but preserving your ownership rights to it; or allow them to leave the
flower bed where it is if they pay "rent" on the portion of your
property on which they are encroaching.
Get a level-headed friend with good written communication skills to
edit your letter. The idea is to (a) make sure it is well-written and
(b) make sure it is not confrontational at all. Save that for later.
Drop the letter in their mailbox (that's less confrontational than
actually mailing a letter to your next-door neighbor) and wait a
couple of weeks. If they don't respond, resend the letter, this time
via certified mail with a return receipt requested. Wait another two
weeks. If they don't still don't respond, resend the letter by
certified mail again, but this time with a cover letter indicating
that if they do not respond, you will have no choice but to retain
legal counsel to pursue legal action against their encroachment on
your property. You may also wish to point out to them that you are
sure to win any such legal battle and it will cost them a pretty penny
in legal fees if they should choose to fight it.
Do not make this threat unless you truly intend on carrying through on
it.
If they still don't respond after another two weeks, find yourself a
lawyer to send them a "lawyer letter" on his letterhead saying similar
things. It would be helpful if you have a relative or friend who is a
lawyer who would be willing to do this for free or a small charge :-).
If not, then you'll just have to hunt around for a lawyer who's
competent to handle the case, and ask them if they'll be willing to
send such a letter as first step, before they spend a lot of time
working on the case, so you don't have to invest a lot of money in the
case until it's clear that the neighbor isn't going to back down.
This "lawyer letter" is probably the first time that intentional
encroachment should be mentioned as a possible explanation for your
neighbors' behavior. Also, you should find out from the lawyer if
there's a statute in your state which allows for the collection of
triple damages and/or legal fees in cases of this sort, and if so, that
should also be spelled out in the lawyer letter.
If you're lucky, your neighbors are the kind of people who are willing
to misbehave as long as they aren't confronted about it but who back
down when faced with the possibility of a confrontation they're
guaranteed to lose in the end.
Remember: Don't threaten legal action unless you really mean it.
ob
"redwood" <iangt...@aol.net> wrote in message
news:tjl791c...@corp.supernews.com...
> Your relationship with the neighbor might be more important than the
> maintenance of a small area of ground.
he's already specified that they're not on speaking terms. so there is
no relationship.
ob
"~Lori" <lorij...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Nhz_6.134911$DG1.22...@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...
perhaps it's the old let them take a couple of inches and they'll take
the yard kind of thing. maybe in the next couple of years that flower
bed will get a little larger.
ob
"v." <v.viv...@KILLSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:3b3a983c...@news.bellatlantic.net...
and if it's in small claims court, there's often no way to make them
pay. maybe a lien on their property?
ob
"Starr Cash" <st...@starrcash.com> wrote in message
news:3k0mjto9p7bfopja9...@4ax.com...
property to adverse possession. he said it couldn't be done in sc.
so maybe your state has some sort of protection.
LeeAnne
This is what I would do:
1st - Get yourself a metal detector, as Victoria said you can probably rent
one - if not go to a store that sells them and tell the guy you'll give him
$75 to come out and find your buried markers. Maybe you could videotape
it/take pics so you can see exactly where they are in relation to the bed in
case they move your above ground ones again.
2nd, Mark the property line above ground and, if as you suspect, their bed
encroaches send them a short, nice certified letter requesting them to move
it back -- be nice!
3rd, If they don't move it or become assholeish about it then just get
yourself a lawyer to write another letter letting them know if they don't
move it they will be taken to court. usually the threat of court will do
it, if it doesn't then you'll see them in court.
4th - when all is said and done, put up a fence w/the nice side facing in
toward you :-)
Good luck
LeeAnne
nalaw
this is not legal advice and i am not your attorney. opinion is provided as
part of a discussion
Andrew Koenig
SS> flowerbed (or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using
SS> boards that one would use to build decks. I am almost positive
SS> part of it is sticking in our property based on my sprinkler
SS> positions.
When we bought our house (in 1984), we had a similar situation:
Our neighbors' driveway overlapped our property line by about a foot.
We asked our lawyer what we should do. He pointed out something
quite interesting: If we knew about the encroachment and did nothing
about it, eventually ownership of that land would transfer to our
neighbors because of something called ``right of adverse possession.''
This situation might sound trivial, but our township requires
structures to be no less than 10 feet from the property line on the
sides. Therefore, it is conceivable that if we wanted to add onto the
house on the side nearest the neighbors' driveway, their encroachment
would reduce the size of the addition we could build.
So what could we do? Remember, we hadn't yet bought the house so
we didn't have any rights.
We came up with what I think is a nice solution. Our lawyer told us
that if we wanted, as soon as we bought the house, we could take a
jackhammer and tear up the part of our neighbors' driveway that is on
our property. Of course, we had no particular reason to do this--but
we had to do something.
What we really wanted out of the situation was a formal acknowledgment
from the neighbors that their driveway was on our property. But why
should they simply give it to us? What could we give them in exchange?
What we realized was that in exchange, we could give them a promise
that if we ever found it necessary to tear up that strip of their
driveway, we would give them a reasonable amount of advance warning.
I think we agreed on 60 days.
So our lawyer drew up a contract, in which we agreed that we would give
our neighbors 60 days' advance warning, and they agreed that they did
not own that strip of land, and everyone was happy.
It sounds like your situation is not exactly parallel -- but you should
be aware that if you don't do anything, you might ultimately lose that
strip of land entirely.
--
Andrew Koenig, a...@research.att.com, http://www.research.att.com/info/ark
Andrew Koenig
Jonathan> the flower bed to remain there, but make your neighbors sign
Jonathan> a written statement that they understand that you are
Jonathan> allowing them to use your property but preserving your
Jonathan> ownership rights to it; or allow them to leave the flower
Jonathan> bed where it is if they pay "rent" on the portion of your
Jonathan> property on which they are encroaching.
See my posting earlier today on this topic.
The alternative you suggest is one that we discussed with our lawyer.
He said that it absolutely would not work. The problem is that for
any kind of contract to be legally binding, there must be
``consideration,'' which means that each party to the contract must
gain something.
In this particular case, you are asking your neighbors to give you
something--an acknowledgment that they do nt own this particular piece
of land--but you are not giving them anything in return. Therefore,
if you ever try to enforce this ``contract'', you will probably fail.
You need to give them something in exchange for the acknowledgment.
Or so our lawyer explained it to us.
Jonathan Kamens
Andrew Koenig <a...@research.att.com> writes:
>In this particular case, you are asking your neighbors to give you
>something--an acknowledgment that they do nt own this particular piece
>of land--but you are not giving them anything in return. Therefore,
>if you ever try to enforce this ``contract'', you will probably fail.
Two points:
1) There's always the standard trick of one party giving the other
"consideration" of $1.
2) In this particular case, you *are* giving something in return --
you are giving them the use of your land, which is a valuable right!
Not Me
wrote:
You are giving the neighbor consideration - the use of your property.
Priscilla H. Ballou
goodne...@invalid.com wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:14:17 GMT, p...@world.std.com (Priscilla H
> Ballou) wrote:
>
> >
> >Excuse me? What does the neighbor's illness have to do with
> >anything.
>
> A lot, the nut cake is stirring the pot and adding to the problems!
"Nut cake?"
> Living next to a mental patient that doesn't keep up with her
> medication can be like living next door to the gateway to hell!
Living next to a bigot can't be a bowl of cherries, either.
Priscilla
--
"Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God;
but only he who sees, takes off his shoes. The rest sit round it and
pluck blackberries." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
nos...@isp.com
> i was told by a lawyer in sc that no
> one in sc had ever lost their
> property to adverse possession.
> he said it couldn't be done in sc.
> so maybe your state has some sort
> of protection.
If so, why, then, the on-again/off-again proposal by some So. Car. legislators
to amend the So. Car. constitution to eliminate in the ability in that state to
obtain ownership of property by way of adverse possession and (perhaps more to
the point here in terms of what has/hasn't previously occurred in that state)
the proposed exemption form those proposals of real property in the state
previously (i.e., before the would-be effective date of such an enactment)
acquired by way of adverse possession?
Betsy
estate attorneys.
Having grown up in this environment, I can assure you that you need an
attorney. Real estate law is complicated, and you do incur some risk of
being countersued if you make the wrong move. A good real estate attorney
will advise you of the right first step to take, give you all the options
and their pros/cons, and keep you out of trouble along the way.
--
Betsy Stocksdale
bat...@erols.com
"SS" <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
> We have a problematic neighbor who has put up a long rectangular flowerbed
> (or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one
would
nnutty
...
thats what I would do..........
Bwahahahahahaha
"Betsy" <batseein...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:9hfm20$3iq$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Pooky
problems. It was rather jerkish to even mention it in his post. Perhaps the
neighbor has enough to deal with since the wife is having trouble with meds
and he's got such an unforgiving person next door.
--
~Pooky~
Put the cat out to reply by e-mail. ;^)
http://moonkatz.tripod.com/index.htm
Zone 9a/b
Priscilla H. Ballou <vze2...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vze23t8n-932CDD...@news.bellatlantic.net...
: In article <c9fljtkkcvjlgm95c...@4ax.com>,
LeeAnne
because the lawn people mowed too far over then it does bear as an important
point to the original story: ie, they're unstable and obviously cannot be
dealt with normally - at least that's how I took it.
Just my opinion, but that's what usenet is all about.
LeeAnne
"Pooky" <pook...@yahookitty.com> wrote in message
news:9hfo2...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Jack
them, do whatever you please. Your land, your rules.
SS wrote:
--
Jack
Harry K
The laws vary by state. In my state it is 7 years. Requirement is
that the use be.
Open and notorious i.e. The use is obvious to anyone, the owner either
knew or should have known about the use and does does nothing about
it.
1. Thus an absentee landlord thru lack of supervision allows someone
to fence in an acre of ground for 7 years and use it, he can loose it
due to adverse possession. (he didn't know, but should have)
2. Same situation but he knows and does nothing - he can loose it.
I acquired an abandonded school ground through this method albeit it
was with the collusion of the various owners. The title was so
fragmented that nothing else could be done with it.
There is also the acquistion of an easement by use without objection,
i.e, neighbor begins using a path across the corner of your land. You
do nothing, he can aquare an easement.
Harry K
Walt
might belong to you neighbor. I am very surprised that your
lawyer would even suggest such a thing unless he figured he
could make a lot of money defending you later on.
Surveyors have been known to make mistakes. Also, you get what
you pay for. If you go on the "cheap" with a surveyor, and have
them start at a closer (non-standard) reference point because it
will take them less time, they can very easily be off by a foot.
A truly accurate survey will start at the county's official
reference marker. That type of survey takes a long time, and
therefore can be very expensive. However, if one is going to
take serious action based on a survey, like taking a jackhammer
to the neighbor's driveway, IMHO it is the only way to go.
In other words, don't become the "bad neighbor" due to a
bad, faulty, survey!
Joann M. Hnat
>
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:17:12 GMT, "Joann M. Hnat" <j...@shore.net>
> wrote:
>
> >of the legal concept of adverse possession: If a neighboring landowner
>
> Beside the fact that this 'concept' is not as easy to apply as you and
> others make it appear, the fact that the neighbor was made aware of
> the fact that the landowner object to their use of the property makes
> in inapplicable in this case - the 21 year period definitely appears
> to already have been seriously interrupted!
I knew that. That's why I said that the writer of the original letter
was past that point before I started my discussion of adverse
possession. Which *does* actually happen.
.. Joann
Carla
Carla
David J. Bockman
--
David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email: d...@bunabayashi.com
Jonathan Kamens <j...@kamens.brookline.ma.us> wrote in message
news:9hfd5g$cej$3...@jik.kamens.brookline.ma.us...
gardener
<djb_m...@bunabayashi.com.invalid> wrote:
>This is the best response I've read yet.
LOL anything to avoid a confrontation with total reality...why not
just send an abusive anonymous email...christ people taking to your
fing neighbor,,,,
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Albert Einstein
gardener
>On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:13:05 -0400, "David J. Bockman"
><djb_m...@bunabayashi.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>This is the best response I've read yet.
>
>
>LOL anything to avoid a confrontation with total reality...why not
>just send an abusive anonymous email...christ people taking to your
>fing neighbor,,,,
>
oops...try talking to your neighbor
v.
<jeob...@hotmail.com> some motley fool wrote:
>Perhaps he has some justifiable reason to
>think the boundary is where it is.
Yes, indeed. The original Poster was only going by a wooden stake
left by the builder. He did not know where the surveyor's marks were.
Original Poster may be wrong as to where the boundary is. That's why
they should get a surveyor.
-v.
ob
<nos...@isp.com> wrote in message
news:3b3b55f1...@news.pipeline.com...
admin01
If that's too expensive, you could do what some customers did 25 years ago: They would come in to Radio Shack and buy an item, use it for a day or two, then bring it back saying they didn't like it. I was convinced there were a fair # of customers that did that on an ongoing basis....
Mike
Bill Seurer
One of our neighbors has a driveway easement across a corner of our
property. We did the $1 thing in the easement agreement. No big deal.
Bill Seurer
only slightly more serious. Some years back guy #2 had built next to
guy #1 and HE THOUGHT he was 6 feet back from the property line. They
had lived many years this way and were good friends.
It turned out the survey they had used was 6 feet off and this started a
bitter dispute. Guy#1 whose land had been encroached upon built a fence
right along the "real" property line, i.e., right against guy#2's
house. When this got to court the judge was not very sympathetic to
guy#1.
David J. Bockman
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and
knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods"
--
David J. Bockman, Fairfax, VA (USDA Hardiness Zone 7)
Bunabayashi Bonsai On The World Wide Web: http://www.bunabayashi.com
email: d...@bunabayashi.com
gardener <to...@lvcm.com> wrote in message
news:vrbnjt8c54931vqo1...@4ax.com...
Paul Onstad
>
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:13:05 -0400, "David J. Bockman"
> <djb_m...@bunabayashi.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >This is the best response I've read yet.
>
> LOL anything to avoid a confrontation with total reality...why not
> just send an abusive anonymous email...christ people taking to your
> fing neighbor,,,,
You never watched Judge Wopner. If one side had done all those things in the
letter they would have won for sure. Talking's good but if you're mad at
each other, not so good. Tempers could easily flare.
-Paul (Whopner, Wopnir? something like that)
Jonathan Kamens
problem is not a feasible solution.
If you are already on such bad terms with your neighbor that he/she
refuses to talk to you or becomes confrontational immediately during
any conversation with you, there is no point in attempting to have a
face-to-face discussion, since it is guaranteed not to accomplish
anything. At least if you say what you have to say politely in
writing, your neighbor has the chance to calmly consider it *outside of
your discussion*, and perhaps a cool head will prevail.
If your neighbor is not a native English speaker and speaks English
poorly, and you don't speak his native language, then saying what you
have to say in writing gives him the chance to mull over the letter
long enough to understand what it says and/or to get someone who
speaks English better than he does to translate it for him.
Finally, if your neighbor is a non-native English speaker who usually
speaks English just fine, but for some reason finds himself suddenly
unable to speak it coherently whenever you attempt to discuss an issue
of this sort with him, there's no point in trying to hold such a
discussion face-to-face. I suppose you could call this "passive
aggressive language amnesia." Alas, I speak from experience here.
Jonathan Kamens
jvh...@telocity.com writes:
>Beside the fact that this 'concept' is not as easy to apply as you and
>others make it appear, the fact that the neighbor was made aware of
Except it appears that, at least thus far, the neighbor in this
particular case has *not* been made aware that the landowner objects to
the use of his property.
Go back and read the initial posting in this thread again. The poster
did not say that he has talked to the neighbor about the encroaching
flower bed. In fact, he says that he can't just speak with the
neighbor about it because they're not on speaking terms.
LeeAnne
L
"victoria" <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message
news:dqnnjtg1lq5e4fv00...@4ax.com...
> I know that my neighbor mows my lawn on his side of the shared median. I
asked
> him ten times not to mow my part of the lawn. I put a large bed in on
that side
> of the property. Now I am going to put up a fence, three feet tall. He
> continues to mow my side of the shared lawn between the houses. He also
puts
> weed and feed down.
>
> He was not happy when I put the bed in and wanted me to put it in the
middle so
> we could share it. NO WAY JOSE.
>
> Next thing you know it will be his property because he mows it.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.freetibet.org
LeeAnne
Chris Lewis
> It sounds like you haven't notified your neighbor that you believe
> their flower bed is encroaching on your property. That's the first
> step.
Even before that step, find out first for _sure_ where the line
really is. Do what you need to do to find out where the line is.
Find the bars yourself (or use the map), and pull a string, or hire
a surveyor. Do it as low key as possible, so they don't know what's
going on. You might be wrong. The neighbor might be wrong.
It'd look _really_ stupid if after all is said and done, the neighbor
had the line right, and you didn't.
So get it right first.
Then when you start talking to him, assume it's an accident.
We got into a similar fight in a cottage development. The cottage
was on a driveway shared by easement between three lots, mostly
on my grandparent's property (center lot). Shared maintenance,
steep slope, etc. Because of the steep slope, vehicle traffic
has a big effect on maintenance costs. _Never_ any problems
with the neighbors, but...
It was also the most obvious route down to the development's public
dock. Not the _official_ route (a maintained pathway bypassing
all properties, boat launch nearby but outside of the development).
Some yahoo down at the other end of the development insisted that the
driveway was public property, and that he could bring his boat down
(and through the rest of the private property - the route from the
driveway down to the dock was, at the time, an unsold lot)
whenever he wished. Chewing the driveway up (which my grandparents
had to maintain) noise, garbage, the works.
He refused to accept the subdivision maps as being definitive, claiming
that the driveway was on the unsold lot, and his right to travel on.
He ignored us telling him that we had found the property pins and
could prove that the driveway was almost entirely on our property.
The confrontations started getting out of hand. Fortunately,
my grandmother as usual had the show stopper. She pushed him
in the lake... (only up to about his knees ;-) Everybody was
laughing too hard for it to continue much longer. But he did
have to lead foot up the driveway (digging big ruts) while hauling
his trailer and boat back up the hill...
That night he snuck onto the property and started scuffing
around trying to find the pins. "Hey Casey, on the _other_
side of the driveway, and a bit to the right!" floated out
from our cottage.... Step, step, scuffle, scuffle, "oh shit!" -
"Good night Casey!" and that was the end of it.
--
Chris Lewis,
For more information on spam, see http://spam.abuse.net/spam
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
Chris Lewis
> I would move the fence ASAP.
> In some places, the location of a fence can "override" a deed
> or survey as the correct boundary between properties.
Only if the fence is there a long time (10 years or more, depending
on jurisdiction), and both parties act as if it is the boundary.
Our property's official back line is listed as "old, mutually agreed
wire fence" on the survey. These days, you'd have a real problem
finding the fence at all...
[More recent surveys drove survey pins at the ends of the fence,
so there's now a more permanent marker.]
Arthur Luxury-Yacht
and maybe club soda. Mix and spray with a 20 gallon sprayer. Spray
at the edge of your property every week before noon.
Alternatively you can remove the urine & club soda and just mix
ammonia and fertizler in a Ryder truck and park it near your
neighbor's home.
admin01 <adm...@c0.comm> wrote in message news:<3B3B469E...@c0.comm>...
> --
Arthur L. Rubin
> >.... do I then call a police to lodge a case on the same day?
>
> What is the crime?
Aggrivated tresspass? Vandalism? (In the destruction
of the 3 inches of your lawn covered by the flowerbed.)
But you're probably correct that the police will
ignore it.
--
Arthur L. Rubin 216-...@mcimail.com
Arthur L. Rubin
>
> Instead of worrying about what ifs, get the survey and see if there is a
> problem. If not, end of story. For an extra charge you can get the surveyor to
> install stone corner markers.
Preperably in the flower bed....
Cereoid*
Will a SUV, ATV, MPV or similar acronym automobile do as well?
You forgot to mention diesel fuel. That was the secret ingredient they used
in Oklahoma. The fertilizer was ammonium nitrate.
The mix is effective in eradicating insects, gophers, deer, pesky neighbors
and an entire city block. Be sure to keep it far away from federal buildings
and no smoking.
After application, you will produce copious amounts of your own human urine
and fresh fertilizer.
Arthur Luxury-Yacht <womba...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ca7faf7f.01062...@posting.google.com...
Walt
When I bought my second home up in NY, there was a stone wall
which "meandered" around the relatively straight property line
between me and my neighbor. It "meandered" more onto my side
than the neighbor's side. My attorney strongly suggested
that I move the wall to the actual property line ASAP.
This always puzzled me since I figured that the property's
deed clearly showed the boundaries. Who cares about the
old stonewall?
I few months ago, while looking up some other issues, I
stumbled upon some case law on the subject. It seems that
if a judge has to decided which boundary is correct and
which is not, the judge can decide that a fence or stonewall
is the true intended boundary, and the deed or land surveys
are in error.
Possibly, this is only in "older" parts of the country where
years ago, land boundaries were indeed physical things like
fences, stonewalls, rivers, streams, etc. These "old rules"
are still respected even with today's satellite guided
surveying systems.
A judge can say that a fence physically demonstrates an
agreement between the two land owners of the proper
boundary between their land. Especially if it stands
uncontested for years.
jvh...@telocity.com wrote:
>
> Which places might these be?
Walt
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> It turned out the survey they had used was 6 feet off ...
John Neff
1) shoot them
2) get a suveyor
3) get a lawyer
4) get a mediator
5) call the police
6) let it be.
I like 6 myself.
--
John Neff john...@uiowa.edu email
pge
But don't forget to get any necessary building permits before you build a fence.
Complaining to the building inspector is often an effective way to get rid of a
"spite fence."
In article <3b3dcf74...@news.dal.ca>, jvgBL...@WOOPSchebucto.ns.ca
says...
>
>2 steps - it's gonna cost you - once.
>
>1) Surveyor
>2) Fence
>
>Cheers!
>John
>{
>
Woodswun
>
>When we called the builder he referred us to the surveyor who did the
>original survey. He wants $300 for detecting the iron bars they have buried
>in the ground. Let's say we go ahead and hire him and he discovers that part
>of their flower bed is on our side. Then what? Do I get him to give this in
>writing - 'cause if he puts some stakes showing exact boundary, my neighbors
>can always remove them behind our back. If I could get the surveyor to give
>this in writing, do I then call a police to lodge a case on the same day?
>What recourse do I have to get the money I spent as well get the neighbors
>to move their flower bed and resod the lawn? I am not sure how to proceed
>further once I get the surveyor on the scene. I cannot even begin to
>describe the damage their dog has caused in our lawn. Please note that we
>are not in talking terms and hence we cannot approach them for anything.
Have you considered moving out? I can't imagine any house that was one of
many/several built together being sooooo unique and wonderful that it would be
worth putting up with the Dingdong family next door. (Do you see how this is
sucking you up into a "situation" that controls you?)
Woods
pge
says...
>
>On 29 Jun 2001 15:38:10 -0700, pge <pge_m...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>But don't forget to get any necessary building permits before you build a fence.
>>Complaining to the building inspector is often an effective way to get rid of a
>>"spite fence."
>>
>
>
Which is why I qualified my statement by saying "any necessary" permits.
All this reminds me a of a true story about another neighborhood pissing
contest:
A guy's yard was littered with old tires. His neighbors, instead of first
trying to reason with him, called the building inspector on him. The guy was
cited for a some violation dealing with junk tires. So the guy applies for a
building permit to build a fence around his property. Guess what material he
used to build the fence.
Tires.
He build a fence of old tires around his property with tires painted white.
What an eye-sore. When the neighbors again complained to the building inspector
he said he could do nothing. The building code did not specify what material
could be used to build a fence.
The moral of the story: Try to get along with your neighbors.
_Lilith_
"John Neff" <j...@pluto.physics.uiowa.edu> wrote in message
news:GFpLz...@sysadm.physics.uiowa.edu...
> So far we have:
> 1) shoot them
> 2) get a suveyor
> 3) get a lawyer
> 4) get a mediator
> 5) call the police
> 6) let it be.
7) encroach back on them
8) poison the flower bed section in question
9) install an ugly spite fence
Jean B.
>
> I know that my neighbor mows my lawn on his side of the shared median. I asked
> him ten times not to mow my part of the lawn. I put a large bed in on that side
> of the property. Now I am going to put up a fence, three feet tall. He
> continues to mow my side of the shared lawn between the houses. He also puts
> weed and feed down.
>
> He was not happy when I put the bed in and wanted me to put it in the middle so
> we could share it. NO WAY JOSE.
>
> Next thing you know it will be his property because he mows it.
>
Hey, that sounds like MY situation. The fence is going in next week,
and I am getting the abutting area landscaped almost immediately
thereafter. I am tired of the neighbor shaping my bushes when I am
trying to grow them a bit and prefer the natural look (not speaking
about encroachment onto his property), and mowing, dethatching, and
putting herbicides and pesticides on part of our property (I do not
believe in using such things). He seems to think our properties
should look the same. I said it should look like his property is his
and ours is ours.... Bleeeccchhhhh.
Jean B.
UmmaGumma
Jonathan Kamens wrote:
>
> Drop the letter in their mailbox (that's less confrontational than
> actually mailing a letter to your next-door neighbor) and wait a
> couple of weeks.
Minor point here. A mailbox may only be used for U.S. Mail. Granted, not
many people are serving time in Leavenworth for unauthorized use of a
mailbox, but still, where there are already some hostilities, this may
not be a good move.
v.
motley fool wrote:
>.... He seems to think our properties
>should look the same. ...
Tell him he's right; they should both look like YOURS.
-v.
v.
fool wrote:
>
>While a permit is not required, the zoning ordinances do strictly
>dictate the materials, heights and finishes of any fences in the town
>and these limitations are further expanded to incorporate and more
>stringent requirements contained in any CC&Rs or other deed
>restrictions applicable to the property!
>
jv, you're projecting again. Not all towns are like yours. In this
town, while height is limited without a permit (over 6 feet you need
one), finish and material are not. So it is a bit exagerrated to
make a blanket statement that ordinances "do" "strictly" regulate
these things. It varies widely. BTW, only about 5% of properties
here have CCRs.
-v.
v.
<216-...@mcimail.com> some motley fool wrote:
>> What is the crime?
>
>Aggrivated tresspass? Vandalism? (In the destruction
>of the 3 inches of your lawn covered by the flowerbed.)
>
I practice criminal law and have never heard of the crime of
"aggravated tresspass". But, being that there are 50 states plus
various other entities in the US, maybe they have that where you are.
Not all property damage is a crime. If Bobby and Joey play baseball
and the ball breaks your window it is not necessarily vandalism. If
new neighbor cuts down your prized shrub thinking it is his, you have
a great civil action but not likely a crime.
If bad neighbor knew the grass was yours and intentionally injured it,
there might technically be a crime but not only would it be hard to
prove, it would indeed be hard to get anyone interested in prosecuting
it. I'd think the matter of the grass a civil matter. Go ahead and
sue for damages or equitable relief.
-v.
madgardener
tender delicate problem and we're all concerned, or this is a
reeeeeeaaaaalllly good troll.................. now don't go getting yer
drawers in a wad by me inferring it's a troll. I know that this really
could be a problem, but people, tomorrow is the 4th of July. You know, land
of the free, home of the brave...... where everyone has the opportunity to
have a piece of American pie?? This "ss" person is crying over a flowerbed
that is taking up six inches and about oh, 8 foot long in length? Is this
all?? I mean, why not plant flowers in the bed on your side, or bulbs that
will come up in the spring. The fairies do it in mine all the time. I
never know where or what will turn up sometimes in my flowerbeds. As for
all the hurtful things suggested, I realize it's a sore subject. We all
can't get out the surface to air missles and nuke everyone for infractions.
Nor can we poison or sabotage. It's not being civilized. How about if you
can't talk to these people you quietly put up a fence along the proper
property line with a leeway of six inches which is what the ruling is here
in Tennessee, (wheather it's followed closely or not, depending on the
location and the local government, farm country seems to have bigger
problems with property lines than anything else). Once you start putting
up a fence on that side, stop at the flowerbed, resume the fence on the end,
and maybe even get creative and make a little gate, or arbor, or trellis.
Hell don't let this little thing make you bitter. Life is too short to fret
over six inches unless it's something else entirely <GBSEG> Lighten up
people, we're not talking acres, feet or yards here, we're talking about
INCHES!! So what if his neighbor's wife is medicated. Half the world is
medicated. And for whatever the neighbor's dog is doing, scoop up the
manure portion of it outa the yard and dump it into the
flowerbed..................................... there, there's my
contribution to all these solutions.
Honestly, let it be. be a good neighbor. and if this is a troll, you won.
you got us all stirred up(not that I am stirred up, I ain't). if this is a
legitimate problem and all then take the advice that's been given here, (I
should have such "serious" problems, hey, wanna trade neighbor's? I have
the neighbor from hell, inbred cats, one male comes inside my house, sprays
the walls, craps sick messy stool on my nice carpets, upsets my fixed
felines into spraying their own territory over and over to such a point that
I am considering putting all six of my cats down, he eats my cat food (the
evil tom cat, not the neighbor :) and now the rat dog has started raiding my
compost pile. I share a driveway and the back of the hill here, I don't
have the option of dispute. I chose to live here knowing it was a shared
driveway, but not realizing how badly the property situation was until we
were too deep in this. Now the only way out is to fix things enough and
possibly sell the house, knowing we will never have this set up again.
Hearing your situation reminded me of how some peoples problems are really
nothing, that we can bitch and kavetch about this means we are blessed to
OWN temporairy land. We can't own the land, the land owns us. there are
some people living in boxes and on the streets that would give anything to
have your problem.............................................
madgardener going off now to get some sleep before making that ten pounds of
potato salad for tomorrow's gathering. Happy 4th of July friends, celebrate
freedom in some way................
Henrietta K. Thomas
the impression that few, if any, of the posters
are reading us.legal.self-represent. So I'm
taking the liberty of reposting an article
posted by an AOLer who can't crosspost, for
the benefit of the original poster and others
in the thread. I have removed the quote marks
and done some reformatting to make it easier
to read.
On 30 Jun 2001 01:46:36 GMT, clsno...@aol.comjoe345 (CLSNOWYOWL)
wrote, in us.legal.self-represent:
Pardon me for the lengthy post that follows:
I am sorry to here about the situation you are
going through now. Please understand that I wet
through a similar situation last year, but I
managed to reolve it. Here's what happened and
what I did to get it handled. After all, if
you roll over and just give in to a neighbor,
pretty soon he might decide to move in with
you and your family or he might your property
belongs to him despite the fact you are paying
for your own property. it may seem like an
extreme statement, but it is true that people
are often out there to get what they can get,
foisting their ways upon us, sometimes with
force (whether it be outright or the subtle
kind).
Here, I have met human nature on this
one. Trying to make peace with a neighbor
you have no relationship with and doing your
darnedest not to be overtaken by a number that
doesn't give a rat's behind about you or your
property is a real delicate balance. To try
to conform to the rules of law without
shortchanging yourself and doing your best
to keep some loose cannon of a neighbor from retaliating against you can
be a real tricky
issue.
Having made my point, let me tell you
some of the things I actually did (legally)
regarding a similar matter when a non-communicative neighbor just
johnny-hopped out and caused a
real problem for my household and me without so
much as saying a word (as I am just an ordinary homeowner and I am not
an attorney).
Last year, the neighbor moved in after
purchasing a new home. I put up with him
making noise at all hours of the day and
night, saying nothing to the neighbor,
because when he bought the place it really
needed an overhaul, so I did my very best
to empathize. Then one day, the neighbor
dug up his front yard, without so much as
saying a word to us. We found our green
plants had been spray-painted blue (I wound
up having to let the parts of the plants that
remained green later grow out and had to later
replace the damaged blue spray painted plants).
Upon seeing the plants spray painted blue,
I was upset. I asked him, "what's up? What's
with the hole in your yard? Is what your doing
going to affect us in any way?" The neighbor
replied that the water company will come out
and fix the water main (the supply for the
water going into his house) the next day and
we will not be affected at all.
The neighbor actually lied. The next day,
a county sewage crew had come out and overtook
our property that whole day, demanding that
they dig in our yard. They dug a 15 foot
long trench ten feet deep in our yard all
day to fix a backed up sewage line in our
neighbor's yard and put in a double y joint
so the neighbor could have a sewage cleanout
box on his and our yard, while we also got
a sewage cleanout box on our property. As
a result of the neighbor's actions and the
county's bad attitude and failure to notify
us, we complained to the county's underground
sewage people about it. They replaced a plant
they nearly killed at their expense and they
placed a violation notice on the neighbor.
In addition, I went to the building inspector
and checked to see if they had a building
permit to change anything on the inside and
outside. It turned out they had no permit to
change any of the outside or make structural
or plumbing changes to the inside. They were
given a notice of violation and were fined.
I further checked the plans for our property
at the planning commission where the property
lines were laid out. The county had to make
sure the sewage cleanout box was within their
easement to our property and didn't encroach
onto our property for more than 5 foot into
our property, to allow for any access of
easement for a public utility (gas, sewage,
water, electrical, cable TV). Having made
the point I have made, you can check to
make sure that if the neighbor is bulding
a deck that he has a permit to do so, or
he could be reported to the building
inspections office in your county (he
could pay fines and he could be ordered
to have an inspection done (especially if
the flowerbed is adjacent to and attached
to this deck he added, or particularly if
he added a sprinkler system to his existing
plumbing). You can also report any property
encroachment of a neighbor to your local
planning or zoning commission. Both of these
options cost no money and do not involve
hiring an attorney. Any citizen can report
an encroachment like this. If you still are
unable to resolve the issue, contact your
elected officials (county or city supervisor)
and make a formal written complaint. Let the authorities handle this by
simply finding the
right local authorities to report such
encroachment to and do this as discreetly
as possible. My household was extremely
discreet and this worked beautifully for us,
when a neighbor got the hankering to attempt
to violate our property.
Best wishes to you.
Charles Lucas
---end of repost-------
Henrietta K. Thomas
Chicago, Illinois
h...@wwa.com
--
Want to know more about the us.* hierarchy?
Visit our temporary website at
<http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/usenet-us.html>
Travis Anton
<nnu...@www.com> wrote:
> maybe you should get the naked gardener to put up a poison ivy fence for
> you
> ...
> thats what I would do..........
> Bwahahahahahaha
Um, I wonder if I started something here... unless there was someone
else who made a silly post about naked in relation to poison ivy.
--
Travis Anton, BoxTop Software, Inc. - http://www.boxtopsoft.com
"BoxTop Software's ProJPEG plug-in consistently produces JPEG files
that are routinely 50% smaller than Photoshop" - Mac Art Design
Jonathan Kamens
Bearhair <bear...@spamcop.net> writes:
> The next time the cat enters the house (I'm presuming your children are
>letting it in?),
Actually, I suspect there's a cat door involved.
Not Me
If so, then the cat door should be removed. Cats have no business
being outside a house, specifically because they roam and like to do
thier dirty work in someone else's property. Any cat I catch in my
yard goes straight to the humane society. What's really nice is that
most cat owners don't put a collar and tag on the cat, meking it
impossible to identify the owner. Loose, stray, and feral cats are a
menace in this country, destroying wildlife and fouling yards
everywhere.
ameijers
and live longer, but they aren't cats anymore. They are arrested-adolesence
kittens doing duty as self-propelled plush toys for their owners. And the
mere thought of an indoor litter box makes me gag. IMHO, declawing should be
chargeable as animal cruelty. People who don't have outdoor space and the
time/inclination to deal with animals being animals shouldn't have them.
I realize that all this is politically incorrect, so don't bother flaming- I
won't answer.
As to the songbird predation- well, yes, that is a problem. That's what
happens when you remove predators from the food chain- the next animal down
population spikes, and wreaks havoc on the species below. The military bases
have an interesting program- they capture, spay, and re-release the wild
cats. That way, another pride doesn't take over the territory, and the feral
population is kept somewhat under control. You get rid of wild cats, and
watch the rodent population spike. (You have 100 acres of warehouses like a
big base does, and rodents get to be a problem. Cats are what the ecosystem
devised to keep them in check.)
If cats bother you so much, don't waste time with the humane society- 90% +
will plus just be killed anyway. May as well just do it yourself.
aem sends...
Not Me <no...@springmail.com> wrote in message
news:otn8ktcd9ut1fenks...@4ax.com...
ameijers
admin01 <adm...@c0.comm> wrote in message news:3B3B469E...@c0.comm...You need to go by the surveyor pegs, PERIOD. The iron pegs a surveyor puts in are trivial to find with a metal detector, and not difficult with a shovel, just time consuming. If you can't afford to buy one ($100 - 300), many places rent them for < $20 a day.
If that's too expensive, you could do what some customers did 25 years ago: They would come in to Radio Shack and buy an item, use it for a day or two, then bring it back saying they didn't like it. I was convinced there were a fair # of customers that did that on an ongoing basis....
Mike
SS wrote:
We have a problematic neighbor who has put up a long rectangular flowerbed
(or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one would
use to build decks. I am almost positive part of it is sticking in our
property based on my sprinkler positions. Last year I saw that my sprinklers
were well within my property (may be by 6") based on stakes left by builder.
This year the stake seems to have been moved (we saw the neighbors pounding
on the stake one day) and my corner sprinkler is all of a sudden smack at
the boundary (a tad even outside the artificial boundary created by them).
These neighbors (esp the wife who we believe is seeing shrinks for her
mental problems) are so nasty they called the cops on us once when the lawn
moving people we had hired had accidentally mowed about 6" on their side.
When we called the builder he referred us to the surveyor who did the
original survey. He wants $300 for detecting the iron bars they have buried
in the ground. Let's say we go ahead and hire him and he discovers that part
of their flower bed is on our side. Then what? Do I get him to give this in
writing - 'cause if he puts some stakes showing exact boundary, my neighbors
can always remove them behind our back. If I could get the surveyor to give
this in writing, do I then call a police to lodge a case on the same day?
What recourse do I have to get the money I spent as well get the neighbors
to move their flower bed and resod the lawn? I am not sure how to proceed
further once I get the surveyor on the scene. I cannot even begin to
describe the damage their dog has caused in our lawn. Please note that we
are not in talking terms and hence we cannot approach them for anything.
thanks
SS
D. Gerasimatos
ameijers <aeme...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Keeping cats inside all the time is cruel. Yes, I know, they stay healthier
>and live longer, but they aren't cats anymore. They are arrested-adolesence
>kittens doing duty as self-propelled plush toys for their owners. And the
>mere thought of an indoor litter box makes me gag. IMHO, declawing should be
>chargeable as animal cruelty. People who don't have outdoor space and the
>time/inclination to deal with animals being animals shouldn't have them.
A big factor in keeping cats inside is so that they don't end up being
meals to coyotes or mountain lions. I have an indoor cat and I'd never let
her out for that reason and also because I don't want her hit by a car.
Dimitri
_Lilith_
Yeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaa!
--
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and
hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins;
all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken, 1923
vsiddali
Out neigbhor recently put the fence ignoring the surveyors marks the
iron pegs and rods. We bought this land in 1986 and it has been
surved by the seller as well as us for various resons. But this
fellow does not accept the survey saying that he has owned it for more
than 20 years and it is his. He does not move the fence. What do you
do in this situation. We have contacted the lawyer and this is the
message he is sending.
> --
pge
First, try to reason with the guy. Your mortgage probably requires you to
defend the property against liens and encumbrances. Nicely explain to your
neighbor that you may be in default of your mortgage if you don't take action to
prevent an encumbrance on the property (his encroaching on the property is an
encumbrance and reduces the value of the property, ergo it reduces the lender's
security).
If (and only if) there's no reasoning with the guy, find out if a building
permit is required for a fence in your locality. If he failed to get any
necessary permits, make a complaint to the local building official.
Did you get title insurance when you bought the place? If you borrowed from a
commercial lender to buy the place I would be surprised if did not have title
insurance. Make a claim on your title insurance if you have it.
Finally, if none of the above solves the problem, get a surveyor to do a
placement survey showing the boundary in relation to the fence. Then take the
neighbor to court for trespass and ejectment. You'll probably need an attorney.
In article <a827c418.0107...@posting.google.com>, vsid...@csc.com
says...
Paul Onstad
necessary to pile more on.
-P
Elizabeth LaBozetta
listed below:
http://www.prairielaw.com/articles/article.asp?channelId=16&articleId=1222
***********************************
"Vox Humana" <vhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xQx_6.72158$R7.12...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
>
> "SS" <srid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:tjl3tg2...@corp.supernews.com...
> > We have a problematic neighbor who has put up a long rectangular
flowerbed
> > (or shrubbery bed 20' X 3') on the property line using boards that one
> would
> > use to build decks
>
> Do you happen to live in a planned unit development with a homeowners
> association? There are usually rules about setbacks for flower bed and
> other things. If so, I would contact them for some help. I had my lot
> surveyed and then had to have them back a year or so later to relocate the
> pins. I believe that it was either free or under $50. You might call
> around and for prices. I think the survey is the place to start. If he
> hasn't encroached on your property then the dispute will be resolved. As
> the old saying goes, "fences make good neighbors." The survey and fence
> will put you back a few dollars, but it might be worth it. I have read
that
> the average family moves about every two years. I live in a neighborhood
of
> young, middle class families. In the five year that I have lived here 70%
> of the houses on my street have changed hands. If you can wait it out,
> there is a good chance that one of you will move in the next few years.
In
> any case, it would be a good idea to talk to an attorney after you get the
> survey if he has placed the flower bed on your property. I think that you
> need to at least notify him that you are aware of the encroachment. I
> understand that under some circumstances people can obtain ownership of
> property by using it (I know, I listen to too much Bruce Williams). You
> should discuss the legal aspects of putting in a fence with the attorney
> also.
>
>
>
Henrietta K. Thomas
us.legal.self-represent:
responding to Paul Onstad's complaint that
this thread has gone on long enough.....
>Actually, I feel it is an issue worth carrying
>on about. The neighbors must learn to respect
>you. God knows, good people like me respect my
>neighbors so much we don't dare go even a
>nanometer onto there property with even so
>much as a small twig or leaf, let alone try
>to overtake them. I wouldn't be bothered to
>even bother with them much, because it is all
>I can do to take care of my family and my own
>business, let alone trying to mind the business
>of my neighbors.
[snip -- if you want to read the entire
article, subscribe to us.legal.self-represent]
> Just about every person has a neighbor on
>earth who is just scheming to get what you
>have and trying to get at it. Why not make
>it a little harder for your neighbor to get
>something of yours, when you have a neighbor
>who is so unreasonable?
>
>Charles Lucas
I'm inclined to agree with you, Charles.
Even though I've never been faced with
the problem presented in this thread, I've
enjoyed reading all the responses, some
serious, some humorous, but all interesting.
What bothers me, though, is that the original
poster hasn't returned, and I wish he would
speak up to assure all of us that this isn't
some kind of troll.
junior's nemesis
"madgardener" <mad...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Owx07.69026$HJ1.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
junior's nemesis
"madgardener" <mad...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Owx07.69026$HJ1.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...