NEED ADVICE:::15 yr old gf wants to sell her panties online. ILLEGAL?
Open FleshWound
"Neil" <ne...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.01022...@general3.asu.edu...
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, mr wrote:
>
> > im 18, my 15 yr old gf has the idea of selling her
> > panties online. before u give me a moral and ethical
> > lecture im here for legal advice! she figures she could
> > make enough money to pay for college by the time she is
> > 18.
> >
> > 1.is there anything illegal about a minor(15) selling
> > their clothing for sexual reasons 2. would it be illegal
> > in usa to post pictures on a website or send pictures to
> > customes of her wearing the panties in a non sexual
> > fashoin. even though the panties are being sold for
> > sexual reasons ( i would think sits illegal 3. if i(18)
> > am involved with taking the orders(P.O. BOX) and
> > chashing the checks, could i be breaking any other law
> > dealing with exploiting minors or contributing to.....
> > of a minor. i mean besides child porn laws.
>
> You are riding a very thin line (possibly breaking it)
> between legal activity and child pornography.
Bullshit. There is nothing pornographic about selling
panties.
> Your role in
> particular could land you in very serious trouble,
> particularly since posting on the Web potentially exposes
> you to the jurisdiction of all 50 states (and every country
> on earth with Internet access).
Wrong again.
> Not only could you capture
> the attention of US federal law enforcement, you could be in
> clear violation of the criminal laws of any number of US
> states, which have differing levels of tolerance for what
> constitutes obscene and non-obscene activity.
There is nothing legally obscene about selling panties.
>
> Do not participate in any manner in your girlfriend's
> activities, even indirectly. She is being very foolish and
> putting herself, her family, her friends and you at risk.
More bogus advice and erroneous conclusions.
>
> -N
>
Neil
> > You are riding a very thin line (possibly breaking it)
> > between legal activity and child pornography.
>
> Bullshit. There is nothing pornographic about selling
> panties.
I'm not interested in debating the niceties of child
pornography with you. I will say this: I've read the federal
statutes dealing with child pornography, I'm basically
familiar with jurisdictional issues relating to the
Internet, and to First Amendment jurisprudence on the issue
of obscenity, and I'm a 3rd-year law student currently
clerking at a federal district court. That background helps
form the basis for my opinion that this young man is
_flirting_ with legal danger.
What's yours?
-N
Open FleshWound
Your "credentials" will not rehabilitate your erroneous
answer.
You appear to conflate the terms "pornographic" and
"obscene" ... you also appear to somehow think that
panties are either pornographic, obscene, sexual, or
all three ...
All of your conclusions are false. Cite your fed statutes you
claim to be expert in as they would apply to a 15 year old
selling panties.
Jon Beaver
For what it's worth, I've practice law for 31 years, and I'm glad to
see that it didn't take you that long to figure out that the correct
"legal advice" to someone who wants to know what will happen if he
jumps off a bridge is "Don't jump." You're on you way to being a good
lawyer.
Peter White
"Jon Beaver" <jbe...@imagecomp.com> wrote in message
news:3a988a5d....@news.newsguy.com...
Can a minor enter into a contract to sell *anything* over the Net? Can an
adult, not her parent/guardian do so on her behalf?
PW
Jon Beaver
wrote:
Are you asking the general question of legal capacity to contract, or
are you trying to find out if there is some federal statute or local
law that might prohibit it? It's "perfectly legal" to stand on a
street corner and observe the traffic, but I wouldn't make that
argument if I was being prosecuted for being the lookout at a robbery.
Is there a way to pose the issues so that the sexual exploitation of a
15 year-old girl is just a seriies of innocent acts? Sure.
Chris
> Are you asking the general question of legal capacity to contract, or
> are you trying to find out if there is some federal statute or local
> law that might prohibit it? It's "perfectly legal" to stand on a
> street corner and observe the traffic, but I wouldn't make that
> argument if I was being prosecuted for being the lookout at a robbery.
> Is there a way to pose the issues so that the sexual exploitation of a
> 15 year-old girl is just a seriies of innocent acts? Sure.
I know that the original poster said he didn't want a lecture on morality...
so I'll won't comment on his "plan".
But I think that he should be tought that there are better places to pick up
"women" (Or in this case, girls) then hanging around your local junior high.
Chris
Remove .nospam to reply.
o...@there.org
What admirable ambitions you have.
Please do not breed. We do not need more vermin on this planet.
"Open FleshWound" <n...@dont.email.me> hypothesizes:
Peter White
Well, everyone was focusing on the article offered for sale. I wondered if
that might be irrelevant, because of the minor's inability to enter into
such a contract in the first place.
PW
Neil
> Well, everyone was focusing on the article offered for
> sale. I wondered if that might be irrelevant, because of
> the minor's inability to enter into such a contract in
> the first place.
If A buys panties from Junior and Junior refuses to send the
panties even after receiving A's money, A has no way of
enforcing the contract because Junior is a minor. A can
probably get his money back though.
-N
R.F.
recission - restitutio in integram.
Neil <ne...@imap1.asu.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.010225...@general3.asu.edu...
B. Richardson
> exactly, Neil. The contract was unconscionable, and the only remedy is
> recission - restitutio in integram.
Actually, it's not unconscionable, it's voidable.
Open FleshWound
"Peter White" <pet...@att.net> wrote in message
news:L1em6.4342$gc7.3...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Sure Peter, you and your hyper-shyster minions would advise people
to not patronize some child's summer sidewalk lemonade stand ...
fearing liability and contractual issues ...
"The Lawyer's world is truly grey, devoid of passion and life ...."
-ofw
Neil
> "The Lawyer's world is truly grey, devoid of passion and
> life ...." -ofw
[soap box mode on] Believe what you wish. I went to law
school because I believe in the nobility, honour and passion
that lawyers embody in our society. Three years later, I'm
not disillusioned and I'm told by those who know better than
I that if I'm not disillusioned by now, I'm not likely to be
in the future.
To be a lawyer... it's an exhilarating thing.
-N
Open FleshWound
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Open FleshWound wrote:
>
> > "The Lawyer's world is truly grey, devoid of passion and
> > life ...." -ofw
>
> [soap box mode on] Believe what you wish. I went to law
> school because I believe in the nobility, honour and passion
> that lawyers embody in our society.
You should have gone to Psych school to help you
understand such pitifull delusions ....
> Three years later, I'm
> not disillusioned and I'm told by those who know better than
> I that if I'm not disillusioned by now, I'm not likely to be
> in the future.
Good thing you have them to guide you in your naive blindness ....
Wanna take bets on when your reality ("disillusioned") will set in?
PS: Learn and understand the word "illusion" and you'll find
that getting "dis"-illusioned is not such a bad thing ...but then
again you went to law school ... taught you well did they?
>
> To be a lawyer... it's an exhilarating thing.
Yes, such and impassioned and artistic crowd .... NOT!
Open FleshWound
<o...@there.org> wrote in message news:olji9tk3m9r0o6t36...@4ax.com...
> So you 15 year old girlfriend wants to be a whore and you want to be a pimp?
> What admirable ambitions you have.
>
> Please do not breed. We do not need more vermin on this planet.
OK Ghandi ... would you feel better if the girl was selling used sweat-socks ....?
.... sniff sniff ... is that sexual to you?
Neil
> > [soap box mode on] Believe what you wish. I went to law
> > school because I believe in the nobility, honour and passion
> > that lawyers embody in our society.
>
> You should have gone to Psych school to help you
> understand such pitifull delusions ....
Oh come on now, if there's anyone on this thread who's
screaming "I have issues!", it's you. :) Get help.
> Yes, such and impassioned and artistic crowd .... NOT!
You're either jealous or irrationally bitter over some past
experience. Get over it. (I.e., get help.)
-N
Horrigan
anyway. The auction site eBay explicitly forbids selling this sort of thing
over the net: you can sell used clothing, but only if it's clean, and you are
forbidden to make any "irrelevant" claims about them. You can sell panties
over eBay, but you can NOT claim that they are used 15-year-old schoolgirl's
panties. The other auction sites have similar restrictions.
If you bought paid ads on the web, you will probably run into censorship there
as well. I suppose you could sue, but even if you had a case, she would be
over 18 by the time you won the court battle.
You would also run into problems if you tried to use mass email to sell her
panties over the net. Your only other recourse would be to set up a web site
and wait for the world to beat a path to your door. You could get some
business via perverts who type "used panties" into a search engine, but even
some of the search engines might try to censor you.
I would definitely say that you MIGHT be prosecuted for child porn violations
at some point. Even if you win the case in the end, being prosecuted is still
a HUGE hassle for both you AND the girl...
That's just my opinion, and I am not a lawyer.
*****
Tim Horrigan <horr...@aol.com>
*****
Open FleshWound
"Horrigan" <horr...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20010226154743...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
> As a practical matter, it would be hard to sell those panties over the net
> anyway. The auction site eBay explicitly forbids selling this sort of thing
> over the net:
Wrong. It only stops you selling it on eBay. That of course
leave a few MILLION other sites to sell it on, or start on
of your own ....
> you can sell used clothing, but only if it's clean, and you are
> forbidden to make any "irrelevant" claims about them. You can sell panties
> over eBay, but you can NOT claim that they are used 15-year-old schoolgirl's
> panties. The other auction sites have similar restrictions.
How about stinky sweat socks ....?
>
> If you bought paid ads on the web, you will probably run into censorship there
> as well.
Wrong again, there are 100,000s of Adult sites that would welcome
such a venture ....
> I suppose you could sue, but even if you had a case, she would be
> over 18 by the time you won the court battle.
>
> You would also run into problems if you tried to use mass email to sell her
> panties over the net. Your only other recourse would be to set up a web site
> and wait for the world to beat a path to your door. You could get some
> business via perverts who type "used panties" into a search engine, but even
> some of the search engines might try to censor you.
You just like hearing yourself talk ... even when you have no clue ....
>
> I would definitely say that you MIGHT be prosecuted for child porn violations
> at some point.
Oh, please do tell how .... what "child porn" statute covers selling
used panties ?
> Even if you win the case in the end, being prosecuted is still
> a HUGE hassle for both you AND the girl...
Nobody ever accuse you of being the brightest bulb in the
package did they ?
>
> That's just my opinion, and I am not a lawyer.
Quite obviously ...
Fugazi
surely if your girlfriend is the sort of girl who want's to sell her
'panties' online. I very much doubt that she is still a virgin and you have
not slept with her!!
"Open FleshWound" <n...@dont.email.me> wrote in message
news:zDJm6.9432$Jb2.9...@news.uswest.net...
Open FleshWound
"Fugazi" <rogue_tr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VEcn6.15168$vI.27...@nnrp3.clara.net...
> Mandatory rape might come in to this somewhere along the line,
"Mandatory" rape ...?
>because
> surely if your girlfriend is the sort of girl who want's to sell her
> 'panties' online. I very much doubt that she is still a virgin and you have
> not slept with her!!
Sleeping with someone is not a crime ....!
Fugazi
under 16, 17 in Northern Ireland, is!!
"Open FleshWound" <n...@dont.email.me> wrote in message
news:BVdn6.4061$Yw2.3...@news.uswest.net...
B. Richardson
> Mandatory rape might come in to this somewhere along the line, because
> surely if your girlfriend is the sort of girl who want's to sell her
> 'panties' online. I very much doubt that she is still a virgin and you have
> not slept with her!!
"Mandatory rape"? Um... don't you mean "statutory rape"?
And depending on the state, it might not even be that. In Texas if a girl is 15
and her boyfriend is 17, it's not statutory rape. Our law says that one party
has to be younger than 16 years old AND the other party has to be more than
three years older. This prevents high school kids from becoming sex offenders
for life for sleeping with their boyfriends/girlfriends.
Open FleshWound
> Sleeping with, or sorry should I say having sexual intercourse with a girl
> under 16, 17 in Northern Ireland, is!!
Well here in the "free" United States, depending on which
state, they can be deflowered as young as 14 yrs old legally.
Neil
> Mandatory rape might come in to this somewhere along the
> line, because surely if your girlfriend is the sort of
> girl who want's to sell her 'panties' online. I very
> much doubt that she is still a virgin and you have not
> slept with her!!
Mandatory rape eh? I sense the 8th Amendment is about to
enter into the picture any moment now.
-N
George of the jungle
It should be the .law! ;>
--
"If once a man indulges himself in Murder, very soon he comes to think
little of Robbing, and
from Robbing he comes next to Drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from
that to Incivility and
Procrastination." T. De Quincy (1785-1859) "Murder Considered As One
of the Fine Arts"