DEPLETED URANIUM 9mm BULLETS
Anonymous
During the Gulf War, coalition forces used rounds made of depleted
uranium to penetrate the armor of Saddam's tanks. Can't quite picture
it? Think of a hot knife through butter.
In response to our recent article about beating SWAT, F9 Bulletin
was contacted by a member of [deleted]'s military. He says that a depleted
uranium round will penetrate SWAT's body armor. Then he goes on to
name and describe some of his nation's military handgun ammunition.
Here at F9 we're wondering if that wasn't his way of leaking that
9mm depleted uranium handgun ammunition is available. If anyone has
any further information on this, please send email to F9 membership
manager Vickie Nickel at trai...@bc.sympatico.ca
[EDITOR'S NOTE -- The name of the country has been deleted to protect
the identity of our reader.]
F9 #7 -- October 29th, 1998, October 29th, 1998
http://www.spycounterspy.com
F. Prefect
wrote:
Uranium 238 projectiles were use extensively in larger 20 to 30 mm
rounds as anti-tank projectiles, and should be effective if used in
small arms to penetrate body armor, but due to expense, I am not aware
of any country or ammunition manufacturer using or producing small
caliber projectiles composed of U238 given the fact that armor
piercing projectiles made of more traditional material fulfill the
need very well when used in small arms.
F. Prefect
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as being a bad move.....
Douglas Adams
Paul
>rounds as anti-tank projectiles, and should be effective if used in
>small arms to penetrate body armor, but due to expense, I am not aware
Depleted uranium is used because it's heavy, dense. A 9mm won't be powerful
enough to push it fast enough to make it effective.
Paul
Koleshak
> On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:33:26 +0100, Anonymous <nob...@replay.com>
> wrote:
>
> >SITREP ITEM #4 -- DEPLETED URANIUM BULLETS.
> > During the Gulf War, coalition forces used rounds made of depleted
> >uranium to penetrate the armor of Saddam's tanks. Can't quite picture
> >it? Think of a hot knife through butter.
> > In response to our recent article about beating SWAT, F9 Bulletin
> >was contacted by a member of [deleted]'s military. He says that a depleted
> >uranium round will penetrate SWAT's body armor. Then he goes on to
> >name and describe some of his nation's military handgun ammunition.
> > Here at F9 we're wondering if that wasn't his way of leaking that
> >9mm depleted uranium handgun ammunition is available. If anyone has
> >any further information on this, please send email to F9 membership
> >manager Vickie Nickel at trai...@bc.sympatico.ca
> > [EDITOR'S NOTE -- The name of the country has been deleted to protect
> >the identity of our reader.]
> >
> >
> Uranium 238 projectiles were use extensively in larger 20 to 30 mm
> rounds as anti-tank projectiles, and should be effective if used in
> small arms to penetrate body armor, but due to expense, I am not aware
> of any country or ammunition manufacturer using or producing small
> caliber projectiles composed of U238 given the fact that armor
> piercing projectiles made of more traditional material fulfill the
> need very well when used in small arms.
>
> F. Prefect
> In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
> people very angry and been widely regarded as being a bad move.....
>
> Douglas Adams
--------
REGULAR URANIUM 238 is available for purchase, although not cheap like lead.
With proper care the industrious basement bullet-caster might just be able to make
Uranium bullets.
Nevertheless, it seems like an enormous cost to do something better done elsewise.
A steel or titanium or tungsten flachette surrounded by a lead bullet would probably
penetrate battle armor, can be made relatively cheaply in large quantities
(although 44 magnum or 45 Colt would be easier to work with) and, of course,
would not set off radiation detectors.
link http://www.dragonsbreath.com/
sells a variety of ammo, mostly 12 gauge shotgun goodies, such as
FLAME-THROWER (yes you read it correctly), FLACHETTE, ARMOR-PIERCING,
INCINDIARY, CHAIN-SHOT, and on and on.
Michael Richmann
>
> SITREP ITEM #4 -- DEPLETED URANIUM BULLETS.
> During the Gulf War, coalition forces used rounds made of depleted
> uranium to penetrate the armor of Saddam's tanks. Can't quite picture
> it? Think of a hot knife through butter.
> In response to our recent article about beating SWAT, F9 Bulletin
> was contacted by a member of [deleted]'s military. He says that a depleted
> uranium round will penetrate SWAT's body armor. Then he goes on to
> name and describe some of his nation's military handgun ammunition.
> Here at F9 we're wondering if that wasn't his way of leaking that
> 9mm depleted uranium handgun ammunition is available. If anyone has
> any further information on this, please send email to F9 membership
> manager Vickie Nickel at trai...@bc.sympatico.ca
> [EDITOR'S NOTE -- The name of the country has been deleted to protect
> the identity of our reader.]
Frankly, this posting fails on simple physics. If you're trying to
penetrate body armor, you want a high velocity round. High powered
rifles for example, do the trick nicely. Now, take any handgun, capable
of taking a round of a given maximum load. None of them will penetrate
a vest using a standard bullet, e.g. lead, so why then would a denser
round do the trick? You only have so much kinetic energy to play with
and if you jack up the mass term, you lose on the velocity term squared
big time...
Mike
David Brickner
feasible is bullshit. At the muzzle velocity of a 9mm uranium would not
do anymore than a steel core bullet. Anyone who wants to shoot through
a vest need only use a centerfire rifle bullet. Any AR15 pistol or
rifle will do fine. The uranium bullets used in the Iraq war were 50
caliber used in a Barrett rifle by sniper teams.... at least twice the
velocity and 5+ times the bullet weight.
F. Prefect
<rich...@concentric.net> wrote:
Although velocity is the overriding factor, one also needs a bullet
that does not expand and dissipate the energy over a wide area upon
impact. Uranium 238, being harder and heavier that lead, should work
nicely even in a handgun if sufficient velocity is achieved.
Dan Day
>The idea that a depleted uranium 9mm bullet is anything special or even
>feasible is bullshit.
True, but try telling that to the eternally clueless Senator Moynihan,
who said the following during a debate about banning "cop killer"
*handgun* bullets:
"[The bill's] sole purpose is to ban the manufacture and
importation of solid projectiles and projectile cores made of
tungsten alloys, steel, brass, iron, beryllium copper, or
depleted uranium -- depleted uranium being one of the more
common alloy metals being used in these bullets."
-- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Congressional Record, October 3, 1984
Note the claim that DU is "one of the more common" metals being
used in such handgun bullets. Snicker. Also note that he called
depleted uranium an "alloy metal". Wrong again.
In the same speech, Moynihan blathered:
"In just the last two weeks, a Long Island police officer's
life was saved when a criminal's bullet failed to penetrate
his vest. That policeman would not have been so fortunate,
had his assailant loaded his shotgun with a cop-killer
bullet."
-- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Congressional Record, October 3, 1984
I'd *love* to see someone try to put a cop-killer BULLET in
a SHOTGUN. It'd slide down the barrel and fall onto the ground.
In the same speech, Moynihan also says:
"No reputable American manufacturer produces these bullets
in any form."
Wrong. Also:
"Our amendment would ban the manufacture and importation
of solid projectiles and projectile cores made of tungsten
alloys, steel, brass, iron, beryllium copper, or depleted
uranium. Such bullets travel at a greater speed than do normal
bullets..."
I see -- so making a bullet out of those materials automatically
makes them travel faster?
Finally:
"The bullets do not fit pistols normally used for practice shooting..."
Nonsense.
--
"When the president does it, that means it is not illegal."
-- Richard M. Nixon, interview with David Frost, May 19, 1977
ma...@pumatech.com
> SITREP ITEM #4 -- DEPLETED URANIUM BULLETS.
> During the Gulf War, coalition forces used rounds made of depleted
> uranium to penetrate the armor of Saddam's tanks. Can't quite picture
> it? Think of a hot knife through butter.
> In response to our recent article about beating SWAT, F9 Bulletin
> was contacted by a member of [deleted]'s military. He says that a depleted
> uranium round will penetrate SWAT's body armor. Then he goes on to
> name and describe some of his nation's military handgun ammunition.
> Here at F9 we're wondering if that wasn't his way of leaking that
> 9mm depleted uranium handgun ammunition is available. If anyone has
> any further information on this, please send email to F9 membership
> manager Vickie Nickel at trai...@bc.sympatico.ca
> [EDITOR'S NOTE -- The name of the country has been deleted to protect
> the identity of our reader.]
Not that I am advocating anyone undertake this illegal
act, but if one wanted handgun bullets that will penetrate
ballistic cloth armor, it is not necessary to go to such
extremes. All that is needed is a lathe and a bit of steel
or brass stock. Machine out the bullets to appropriate
tolerances, perhaps taking into account a lead or copper
jacket if preserving the barrel of the gun is important,
and use them in some hot loads.
It is trivially easy to defeat most kinds of wearable body
armor, and only slightly harder to defeat the "rifle rated"
SWAT type armor (they generally only defend against ball ammo;
again a solid or solid core round fired from a hot load should
punch right through). Hunting down exotic ammunition is not really
necessary unless one is concerned more with the type of plate
steel and aluminum armor on lighter vehicles (generally speaking,
no small arm is going to defeat the composite armor of heavier
fighting vehicles; better find oneself a good anti-tank
system - perhaps by using small arms a-la "butterknife
brigade" tactics).
-Matt
Michael Richmann
>
> On 02 Nov 1998 20:37:32 PST, Michael Richmann
> <rich...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> SITREP ITEM #4 -- DEPLETED URANIUM BULLETS.
> >> During the Gulf War, coalition forces used rounds made of depleted
> >> uranium to penetrate the armor of Saddam's tanks. Can't quite picture
> >> it? Think of a hot knife through butter.
> >> In response to our recent article about beating SWAT, F9 Bulletin
> >> was contacted by a member of [deleted]'s military. He says that a depleted
> >> uranium round will penetrate SWAT's body armor. Then he goes on to
> >> name and describe some of his nation's military handgun ammunition.
> >> Here at F9 we're wondering if that wasn't his way of leaking that
> >> 9mm depleted uranium handgun ammunition is available. If anyone has
> >> any further information on this, please send email to F9 membership
> >> manager Vickie Nickel at trai...@bc.sympatico.ca
> >> [EDITOR'S NOTE -- The name of the country has been deleted to protect
> >> the identity of our reader.]
> >
> >penetrate body armor, you want a high velocity round. High powered
> >rifles for example, do the trick nicely. Now, take any handgun, capable
> >of taking a round of a given maximum load. None of them will penetrate
> >a vest using a standard bullet, e.g. lead, so why then would a denser
> >round do the trick? You only have so much kinetic energy to play with
> >and if you jack up the mass term, you lose on the velocity term squared
> >big time...
> >
> >Mike
>
> Although velocity is the overriding factor, one also needs a bullet
> that does not expand and dissipate the energy over a wide area upon
> impact. Uranium 238, being harder and heavier that lead, should work
> nicely even in a handgun if sufficient velocity is achieved.
How so? 1) A standard lead-core full metal jacket round from a handgun
will not penetrate a vest. 2) Uranium is not exactly a tough metal (we
use it in the lab and I'm familiar with its properties) and 3) "if
sufficient velocity is achieved" is hardly a standard of proof if you
fail to address the kinetic energy considerations discussed above...
M.
Andrew Walls
body armour. Has anyone in the US ever seen FFL brand ammo for sale? It is
used by the Norwegian military, and is a 9 mm round loaded with a 115 grain
FMJ bullet at 1280 fps. The jacket is so hard that it will punch through
body armour. This makes it illegal for civilian use in the US.
Andrew Walls
Near the Arctic Circle
Norway
JebS...@manassas.com
The key is not jacking up the mass or velocity, but DECREASING the
surface area of the round e.g. flechettes (small needle-like
projectiles).
Michael Richmann
In effect, you're playing with miniature rifle rounds...
M.
