Car towed due to expired tabs
anita
in June. Besides it was registered in a different state. I found a
notice on my car on Tue, saying hey are going to tow it on Fri. I went
into the apartment complex and told them I will try to get it done by
Fri, but would probably not have the time to get registration till
Monday, so would they please not tow the thing.
Now I just stepped out and my car is gone.
How legal is this thing they are doing ? can they tow my car from
legal parking space ? Even after I told them its not abandoned ?
the notice on my car does not have anyone's signature, just a scrawl
with the apartment complex's name. The complex gave me a copy of the
notice with someone's initials saying 'towed'.
I missed a doctors appointment because of this sh**.
What legal recourse do i have ? I saw a HUGE stack of towing stickers
I think they do this regularly- towing people away.
Thanks
Anita
Christopher Green
>In Bellevue, Wa. My car -in fine working order had tabs that expired
>in June. Besides it was registered in a different state....
>How legal is this thing they are doing ? can they tow my car from
>legal parking space ? Even after I told them its not abandoned ?
>
>What legal recourse do i have ?
Probably not much. Is it a rule of your apartment complex that
vehicles must have current registration in order to be parked there?
Is there a reason why you could not (and did not need to) timely
register the car in Washington?
This is a problem of your own making and does not sound like one you
could or should have recourse to law to solve.
--
Not a lawyer,
Chris Green
Gerald Clough
It looks like, from the Washington statutes, that if an apartment house
parking lot qualifies as "residential property" the owner can have an
"unauthorized vehicle" towed. I'm not sure what unauthorized means, but
there may be a clause in the lease that no vehicles are authorized
unless they are currently registered, etc.
--
Gerald Clough
"Nothing has any value, unless you know you can give it up."
Horrigan
>in June. Besides it was registered in a different state. I found a
>notice on my car on Tue, saying hey are going to tow it on Fri
Well, your lease probably has fine print stating that you can't park their car
there unless it is properly registered. Your car is not properly registered.
(Aside from the registration stickers having expired, there's also the possible
issue of it still having your previous state's tag. Most states require you to
re-register your car within a set time after you move to the state.)
If all this just happened, the landlord waited two weeks into July before
towing your car. I can't blame them too much for not paying attention to your
promise to register the car by Monday, since you let the whole month of June go
by without registering your car.
*****
Tim Horrigan <horr...@aol.com>
*****
Stan Brown
misc.legal.moderated:
>It looks like, from the Washington statutes, that if an apartment house
>parking lot qualifies as "residential property" the owner can have an
>"unauthorized vehicle" towed. I'm not sure what unauthorized means, but
>there may be a clause in the lease that no vehicles are authorized
>unless they are currently registered, etc.
Are we sure that it was actually the apartment that towed the car?
Perhaps they called the police to report an abandoned vehicle, and
the police ordered the tow.
--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
anita
> If all this just happened, the landlord waited two weeks into July before
> towing your car. I can't blame them too much for not paying attention to your
> promise to register the car by Monday, since you let the whole month of June go
You are assuming that it expired in the beginnig of June, it was at
the end of june and the tabs were expired for about 10 days when this
whole thing happened. Anyway, I have not been living in this state
except for the last month or two.
The apartment ppl who said they would not tow were extremely
apologetic when they found that it was my car that they had towed.
They KNEW they had said they would not, so felt bad about it. If they
had said no- then I'd probably have parked it elsewhere.
I spoke to a lawyer about it and he has asked me to look into my lease
agreement, if I've signed anything saying that they will tow if it is
not registred, I'm out of luck. If not I probably do have a say. He
said they can make rules but unless they tell you that they have these
rules they cannot enforce it. Fair enough- unfortunately I was not the
one that signed the lease, so I did not know about it.
Anita
Joe Bramblett, KD5NRH
Hash: SHA1
horr...@aol.com (Horrigan) wrote in
news:ojllf0th670jaib0d...@4ax.com:
> expired, there's also the possible issue of it still having your
> previous state's tag. Most states require you to re-register your
> car within a set time after you move to the state.)
At least here, (TX) there are exceptions for students, military, and
other temporary residents. If the apartment complex based their
decision on out-of-state plates, they would be responsible for
proving that the owner didn't qualify for an exemption.
I'm not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.
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Gerald Clough
> "Gerald Clough" <firstiniti...@texas.net> wrote in
> misc.legal.moderated:
>
>>It looks like, from the Washington statutes, that if an apartment house
>>parking lot qualifies as "residential property" the owner can have an
>>"unauthorized vehicle" towed. I'm not sure what unauthorized means, but
>>there may be a clause in the lease that no vehicles are authorized
>>unless they are currently registered, etc.
>
>
> Are we sure that it was actually the apartment that towed the car?
> Perhaps they called the police to report an abandoned vehicle, and
> the police ordered the tow.
>
As I recall, and without looking it up again, I think there were
different rules for police tows that involved a good bit more process.
Stan Brown
>You are assuming that it expired in the beginnig of June, it was at
>the end of june and the tabs were expired for about 10 days when this
>whole thing happened. Anyway, I have not been living in this state
>except for the last month or two.
So what?
Either renew the registration in your old state, then transfer it to
the new state, or get registered in your new state.
Again, lose the attitude. You seem to feel that your convenience is
the only thing that matters. In fact, the more I hear from you the
more I think the apartment company acted properly in getting an
unregistered vehicle off their lot.
Horrigan
>the end of june and the tabs were expired for about 10 days when this
>whole thing happened.
Most states allow you to renew your registration BEFORE it expires. My home
state, NH sends renewal notices out more than two months before the expiration
date: if your tages expired in June, you'd get a renewal notice around tax day.
I can't say that I've checked Washington law, but I am pretty sure they follow
the common practice of expecting June 2004 tags to be renewed on or before June
30, 2004, rather than as soon as possible after July 1, 2004.
Curtis CCR
news:<2trqf0tnjj0jj3hg4...@4ax.com>...
> "Gerald Clough" <firstiniti...@texas.net> wrote in
> misc.legal.moderated:
> >It looks like, from the Washington statutes, that if an apartment house
> >parking lot qualifies as "residential property" the owner can have an
> >"unauthorized vehicle" towed. I'm not sure what unauthorized means, but
> >there may be a clause in the lease that no vehicles are authorized
> >unless they are currently registered, etc.
>
> Are we sure that it was actually the apartment that towed the car?
> Perhaps they called the police to report an abandoned vehicle, and
> the police ordered the tow.
It appears that the apartment management knew the car belonged to the
OP. If they reported to the police as abandoned, wouldn't that be a
false report.
Are vehicles with expired tags in Washington subject to impoundment by
law enforcement? IIRC, in California the tags have to be a year out
of date before the vehicle is subject to impound. And even then, they
would not normally removed such a vehicle without the property owner's
permission.
Eliyahu Rooff
> "anita" <anit...@yahoo.com> wrote in misc.legal.moderated:
> >You are assuming that it expired in the beginnig of June, it was at
> >the end of june and the tabs were expired for about 10 days when this
> >whole thing happened. Anyway, I have not been living in this state
> >except for the last month or two.
>
> So what?
>
> Either renew the registration in your old state, then transfer it to
> the new state, or get registered in your new state.
>
that the Department of Licensing requires that you register the car
within 30 days of becoming a resident. More info at
http://www.dol.wa.gov/vs/tr-new.htm#soon , including the fact that
there's a $330 fine for failing to register in a timely manner. The
registration fee is only $31, so there's no reason for not having taken
care of it promptly.
Eliyahu Rooff
Walla Walla, WA
Eliyahu Rooff
> >You are assuming that it expired in the beginnig of June, it was at
> >the end of june and the tabs were expired for about 10 days when this
> >whole thing happened. Anyway, I have not been living in this state
> >except for the last month or two.
>
> So what?
>
>> Either renew the registration in your old state, then transfer it to
> the new state, or get registered in your new state.
>
> that the Department of Licensing requires that you register the car
> within 30 days of becoming a resident. More info at
> http://www.dol.wa.gov/vs/tr-new.htm#soon , including the fact that
> there's a $330 fine for failing to register in a timely manner. The
> registration fee is only $31, so there's no reason for not having
taken
> care of it promptly.
>
fee for a car is $30, not $31.
Eliyahu
Eliyahu Rooff
"Curtis CCR" <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:29e3g05grppko2l79...@4ax.com...
>
>
> Are vehicles with expired tags in Washington subject to impoundment by
> law enforcement? IIRC, in California the tags have to be a year out
> of date before the vehicle is subject to impound. And even then, they
> would not normally removed such a vehicle without the property owner's
> permission.
>
improperly licensed or abandoned vehicles removed from their property at
the vehicle owner's expense, particularly if the property is posted with
such info. There's probable also a restrictive clause in the apartment
rental/lease agreement.
Eliyahu
Ivan Erwin
"Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:in7bg0p1jevlt9lgu...@4ax.com...
sticker to renew. That is, if the two stickers on my plate say June and
2004, I have until the end of July, 2004 to renew and put a 2005 sticker on
my license plate.
If I'm temporarily in another state and not required to change my
registration to that state, an apartment complex could have a serious
problem having my Colorado registered car towed in mid-July with a June
sticker on my plate.
I assume that law enforcement officials have means to readily check such a
situation but I suspect that an apartment complex manager might not think
about it.
Ivan
Curtis CCR
My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
Michael Jacobs
news:<ut5gg092ltevoebv7...@4ax.com>...
> "Eliyahu Rooff" <lro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<in7bg0p1jevlt9lgu...@4ax.com>...
> > "Curtis CCR" <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:29e3g05grppko2l79...@4ax.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > Are vehicles with expired tags in Washington subject to impoundment by
> > > law enforcement? IIRC, in California the tags have to be a year out
> > > of date before the vehicle is subject to impound. And even then, they
> > > would not normally removed such a vehicle without the property owner's
> > > permission.
When I was in CA, several cars with expired tags were towed from the
streets in our neighborhood. Although I don't know about the 1-year
provision you mention (can you provide a cite?) many of those cars had
tags that were less than one year out of date. It is also the law in
many states that a car parked on a public street which has not been
moved for a period of time (much shorter than a year, sometimes as
little as 48 hrs) can be considered abandoned and towed to impound for
that independent reason (even if it has current tags).
--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685 (fax) 410-740-4300
Gerald Clough
> My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
> with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
There can be no general answer to something that varies by state. In
Texas, expired registration alone is not sufficient to declare it a
nuisance. However, if it's disabled and expired and remains for a
certain period of time, the time differing for public and private
property, it is, unless it meets specific exceptions, by definition a
public nuisance and subject to seizure and destruction after a statutory
process.
Curtis CCR
news:<cniqg098ihiomhbje...@4ax.com>...
> Curtis CCR wrote:
>
>
> > My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
> > with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
>
> There can be no general answer to something that varies by state.
My original question was specific to Washington, but general as to the
location of the car. Let me re-ask...
In the state of Washington, notwithstanding whether it is on private
property or a public street, is a car with expired registration
subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
Robert Bonomi
Curtis CCR <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Gerald Clough <firstiniti...@texas.net> wrote in message
>news:<cniqg098ihiomhbje...@4ax.com>...
>> Curtis CCR wrote:
>>
>>
>> > My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
>> > with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
>>
>> There can be no general answer to something that varies by state.
>
>My original question was specific to Washington, but general as to the
>location of the car. Let me re-ask...
>
>In the state of Washington, notwithstanding whether it is on private
>property or a public street, is a car with expired registration
>subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
On private property, expired registration _alone_ is *not* grounds for
impoundment by law enforcement. REGARDLESS OF LOCALE. Nothing in the law
requires current registration for a vehicle _not_ being operated on the public
roadway. Many 'off-road only' use vehicles (e.g. used only on private farm
property) are not registered. You don't even have to have a drivers license
to legally operate such a vehicle -- on *private* property. Driving _across_
the road *from a field on the near side of the highway, to one on the far side)
_is_ a violation, however.
In *many* jurisdictions, however -- and here i cannot speak with specific
regard to WA states -- a 'complaint' by the _owner_ of the private property
(or their 'agent') is sufficient grounds for law-enforcement to have *ANY*
vehicle removed/impounded. In other jurisdictions (notably Illinois), said
'impoundment' is handled by _private_ towing companies.
Expired registration on a vehicle on private property, where the owner
has a policy of forbidding such vehicles on _their_ property, can be
regarded as prima facie evidence of 'abandonment', and the owner is within
their legal rights to exercise whatever options are available for it's
'legal' removal.
In the specific situation that started this entire discussion, the owner/mgmt
_was_ aware that the vehicle was _not_ 'abandoned', had *consented* to that
specific vehicle remaining there, and =then= had it towed/impounded 'in error'.
A strong case can be made that the owner/manager is liable to the vehicle
owner for any and all costs associated with the towing/impoundment _and_ the
return of the vehicle to the property. Note: this does -not- include the
costs of a current registration -- almost assuredly needed if one intends
to -drive- the vehicle away from the impound lot; current registration would
-not- be needed if the vehicle was to be towed or 'trailered' back to the
apartment complex.
Christopher Green
> Gerald Clough <firstiniti...@texas.net> wrote in message
> news:<cniqg098ihiomhbje...@4ax.com>...
> > Curtis CCR wrote:
> >
> >
> > > My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
> > > with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
> >
> > There can be no general answer to something that varies by state.
>
> My original question was specific to Washington, but general as to the
> location of the car. Let me re-ask...
>
> In the state of Washington, notwithstanding whether it is on private
> property or a public street, is a car with expired registration
> subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
Not directly, so far as I can tell. But there is a lot of local and
private discretion in the RCW's use of "unauthorized vehicle".
An "unauthorized vehicle" may be towed from private residential
property without posting and without notice, on the written direction
of the owner or his representative [RCW 46.55.070(2)]. The property
owner defines what sort of vehicle is unauthorized, and a policy that
a vehicle without current tags is unauthorized would be a reasonable
one.
Law enforcement may tow a "junk vehicle" at any time [RCW 46.55.230]
or an "unauthorized vehicle" left in a highway right-of-way after 24
hours [RCW 46.55.085]. A "junk vehicle" is one that is manifestly
junk; what an "unauthorized vehicle" is is left to local and state
patrol determination.
Christopher C. Stacy
Robert> In article <ilb0h0hdks4b3jtil...@4ax.com>,
Robert> Curtis CCR <curt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Gerald Clough <firstiniti...@texas.net> wrote in message
>> news:<cniqg098ihiomhbje...@4ax.com>...
>>> Curtis CCR wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > My question was general, not specific to private property. Are cars
>>> > with expired tags subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
>>>
>>> There can be no general answer to something that varies by state.
>>
>> My original question was specific to Washington, but general as to the
>> location of the car. Let me re-ask...
>>
>> In the state of Washington, notwithstanding whether it is on private
>> property or a public street, is a car with expired registration
>> subject to impoundment by law enforcement?
Robert> On private property, expired registration _alone_ is *not* grounds for
Robert> impoundment by law enforcement. REGARDLESS OF LOCALE. Nothing in the
law
Robert> requires current registration for a vehicle _not_ being operated on the
public
Robert> roadway. Many 'off-road only' use vehicles (e.g. used only on private
farm
Robert> property) are not registered. You don't even have to have a drivers
license
Robert> to legally operate such a vehicle -- on *private* property.
I seem to recall some stories that contradict those statement.
(Maybe the stories were wrong, or it's unusually different by state.)
The counter-story was about someone being arrested for operating their
car only on their driveway, never touching the public road, while they
had a license suspended for DUI. (They were shuffling cars in their
garage or something, and were arrested by the police who cruised by.)
My local police department informs me that all motor vehicles in this
state must be registered if they are operated, even if it's exclusively
on private property. (You may store a car on your private property
without registering it, if you do not operate it at all.)
I didn't look up the law; that's just what the police said today.
John F. Carr
Robert Bonomi <bon...@host122.r-bonomi.com> wrote:
>Nothing in the law requires current registration for a vehicle _not_
>being operated on the public roadway.
Many cities and towns limit the number of unregistered motor vehicles
allowed to be stored on a single property.
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
Michael Jacobs
news:<50oah0t9601amvful...@4ax.com>...
> >>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:47:58 -0400, Robert Bonomi ("Robert") writes:
>
> Robert> On private property, expired registration _alone_ is *not* grounds
> for
> Robert> impoundment by law enforcement. REGARDLESS OF LOCALE. Nothing in the
> law
> Robert> requires current registration for a vehicle _not_ being operated on
> the public
> Robert> roadway. Many 'off-road only' use vehicles (e.g. used only on
> private farm
> Robert> property) are not registered. You don't even have to have a drivers
> license
> Robert> to legally operate such a vehicle -- on *private* property.
IMO Robert's right. But that doesn't mean you can't be arrested for,
e.g., driving under the influence, even on an ATV in your own back
yard (there was a recent MD case that upheld such a conviction).
> I seem to recall some stories that contradict those statement.
> (Maybe the stories were wrong, or it's unusually different by state.)
>
> The counter-story was about someone being arrested for operating their
> car only on their driveway, never touching the public road, while they
> had a license suspended for DUI. (They were shuffling cars in their
> garage or something, and were arrested by the police who cruised by.)
Apart from the fact that "driving under the influence" and "operating
without registration or license" are apples and oranges, AFAIR the
story you cite was discussed at length on MLM a year or 2 ago and IIRC
the guy who got the ticket in that case _had_ in fact backed into the
public roadway from his driveway, in order to switch cars -- only a
few feet past the curb, but enough to be considered "operating on the
public highway". And IIRC further, he was not drunk at the time, but
had had his license suspended previously _because_of_ a DUI conviction
-- hence, what they got him for in the driveway shuffling incident was
just operating on the highway with a suspended license. I think it
was in MA. Ask John Carr or Dave Chesler about that one.
> My local police department informs me that all motor vehicles in this
> state must be registered if they are operated, even if it's exclusively
> on private property. (You may store a car on your private property
> without registering it, if you do not operate it at all.)
> I didn't look up the law; that's just what the police said today.
And what state is that? Don't they recognize a category of motorized
vehicles that are for off-road use only and don't have to be
registered? Farm equip.? Construction equip.? Dirt bikes? ATVs?
Riding lawnmowers? Where do they draw the line?
Seth Breidbart
John F. Carr <j...@mit.edu> wrote:
>Many cities and towns limit the number of unregistered motor vehicles
>allowed to be stored on a single property.
Wouldn't that tend to make car dealers quite unhappy?
Seth
Arthur L. Rubin
> My local police department informs me that all motor vehicles in this
> state must be registered if they are operated, even if it's exclusively
> on private property. (You may store a car on your private property
> without registering it, if you do not operate it at all.)
> I didn't look up the law; that's just what the police said today.
The rules are different in different states. In California, you
need to have a $15 annual "non-operating permit" in order to
store the vehicle or operate it only on private property.
--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.
John F. Carr
Christopher C. Stacy <cst...@news.dtpq.com> wrote:
>The counter-story was about someone being arrested for operating their
>car only on their driveway, never touching the public road, while they
>had a license suspended for DUI. (They were shuffling cars in their
>garage or something, and were arrested by the police who cruised by.)
Massachusetts and Connecticut prohibit driving on private property
while ones license is suspended for DUI. (So say the state Supreme
Courts; in my opinion the laws clearly were not intended to be so
broad.)
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
John F. Carr
One of the exceptions to my city's junk and unregistered
vehicle ordinance is a vehicle "on the premises of a
business enterprise ... necessary to the operation of
such enterprise." Another exception applies to licensed
junkyards. The dealer registration offered by the state
might also protect against such ordinances.
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)