Car Rentals - Age Discrimination
Justin
rent a compact, mid-size, of full-size sedan vehicle and I was
excluded from renting a full-size SUV or Mini-van. I run a business
and occasionally am required to make deliveries, I'm absolutely
floored and shocked that Hertz would exclude business owners the right
to rent a vehicle adequate for their purpose. U-Haul has rented me
commercial cargo van's, but they are far more expensive. I don't think
acting as a competitive consumer, I should be discriminated against
because of my age. I'm over the age of 21, I've been driving for 7
years and my license is clean. Can I file an age-discrimination suit
against Hertz Rental's?
Thanks,
Justin
Christopher Green
>Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
>rent a compact, mid-size, of full-size sedan vehicle and I was
>excluded from renting a full-size SUV or Mini-van....
>Can I file an age-discrimination suit against Hertz Rental's?
New York is one state where refusing to rent to drivers under 25 is
considered unlawful age discrimination [see People v. Alamo, 89 N.Y.2d
560 (1997)]. The rationale, however, is peculiar to New York: New York
has a state insurance plan that is available to cover such drivers,
and rental agencies are allowed to charge extra to cover the high cost
of insurance under the plan.
Michigan is another state with an age discrimination law covering car
rentals. The state has been entering into settlement agreements with
car rental agencies.
If your state doesn't have an anti-age discrimination law that has
been held to cover car rentals, you are likely SOL. Refusing to rent
to someone who because of young age and class of vehicle rented
represents an unacceptable risk to the rental company's insurance
agent (or a risk that the insurance agent will only cover at a price
the rental company is unwilling to pay) is discrimination for a bona
fide business reason, not in general illegal discrimination -- unless
there is a state law that has been held to say otherwise.
--
Not a lawyer,
Chris Green
Mark A
news:hilud05p8iejduggo...@4ax.com...
these rules for a very long time, so I doubt you will have any luck filing
an age discrimination law suit.
However, for corporations that have contract rates with Hertz, all their
employees are allowed to rent regardless of age. So I would contact Hertz
corporate marketing and see if you can get a corporate id that allows you
rent the cars you need on behalf of your company.
Stan Brown
Short answer: Anyone can sue anyone for anything, but whether a
judge will listen is another matter.
Longer answer: I'm surprised you can rent _any_ vehicle. When I was
your age, (mumble) years ago, car rentals were flat-out unavailable
to anyone under 25. There's a nugget of sense in it: under-25
drivers tend to get into more than their share of car accidents, and
even if the rental company recovers the cost of the damages it's
still an administrative hassle. (The higher accident risk for under-
25s is reflected in their higher insurance premiums, as you're
probably painfully aware. As far as I know, no insurance company has
ever been successfully sued for discrimination on age-based
premiums.)
You're not completely out of luck, though. The obvious thing is to
try other rental companies. Another possibility, particularly if
your business is a corporation, is to rent the vehicle through the
corporate travel department. (That "department" might of course be
just you on the phone.) When you do that, the rental company may or
may not inquire as to the age of the intended driver. I do remember
when I was under 25 I could drive a car that my company rented, but
not one I rented in my own name.
Finally, try to get around corporate policies by connecting with a
real human. Some corporate employees are basically drones, unwilling
to take the slightest risk. Others are "can do" people who can
recognize when it makes sense to apply a corporate policy rigidly
and when it makes sense to bend it a bit. Your task is to get past
the first sort to the second sort. For instance, if you haven't
already spoken to the office manager, you might make an appointment
to call on him/her to discuss the needs of your business. If you get
an initial "no" from the manager, that's not a final answer but the
starting point for negotiation. One good open-ended question is
"what change in circumstances would make a difference here, other
than waiting two years?"
But as far as _legal_ points, I don't believe you have any recourse.
P.S. The plural of "van" is "vans", and the plural of "rental" is
"rentals". As a business owner, you might be concerned to use
standard English if you have to make written presentations to
clients.
--
If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.
I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Arthur L. Rubin
>
> Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
> rent a compact, mid-size, of full-size sedan vehicle and I was
> excluded from renting a full-size SUV or Mini-van.
> against Hertz Rental's?
I don't think young persons are a protected class under the
law. If you were over 40, and discriminated against for
that reason, THAT might be different.
--
This account is subject to a persistent MS Blaster and SWEN attack.
I think I've got the problem resolved, but, if you E-mail me
and it bounces, a second try might work.
However, please reply in newsgroup.
Paul Cassel
> Can I file an age-discrimination suit
> against Hertz Rental's?
>
Yes you can file any sort of suit you wish. I doubt you will prevail. Filing
suit is almost your right as a citizen, but you don't have a right to win.
Age discrimination isn't for any age to do anything, but it means certain
ages are protected classes and these ages are all advanced ages (over 40 in
general). As far as I know, there are no protected age classes in the 20's.
Here what you have is either policy or a restriction put on Hertz by its
insurance company. Very likely the reason you find the larger vehicles are
more expensive at those other companies is due to their insurance comapanies
charging them more due to their allowing younger drivers to use them.
You need to see things globally here. You have a clean record, but younger
drivers do drive less well than older ones. Hertz can't check driver records
and rent accordingly. That's impossible so it or its insurance company needs
to set policy based on age class. You are being punished by the reckless
actions of your peers. This is a major issue with race as in profiling. I
will not get into that here. Either you know what I'm talking about or you
don't. If you do then you understand that you being profiled to your
detriment.
I was there; now I"m not. The only way out is to wait it out. The good news
is that those with cheaper rental rates are dying with heart attacks and you
aren't so the news isn't all bad. Try contacting some leasing agencies to
see if you can come up with some short term rental /leases that will meet
your needs at a rate that will match your driving record and not your
profile.
-paul
ianal
Arthur L. Rubin
> You need to see things globally here. You have a clean record, but younger
> drivers do drive less well than older ones. Hertz can't check driver records
> and rent accordingly. That's impossible....
No, it isn't. It may be impractical, if it takes too long for Hertz to
get the DMV records, but a requirement that drivers under 25 give
their drivers license number to Hertz sufficiently in advance for
Hertz to run a records check doesn't seem impossible today.
After all insurance companies can often get "instant" (with an
hour, anyway) records check -- why NOT Hertz?
Jon C
First of all, how have you been driving since you were 14?
Second, go rent a U-Haul then. Insurance is incredibly expensive for rental
cars to young[ish] males. That's how it goes. Hertz made a business
decision not to take the financial risk and burden of renting you a car.
That's how it goes. It's discrimination, but it's not illegal
discrimination.
Seth Breidbart
Jon C <ne...@jonnythan.com> wrote:
>"Justin" <jwv...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:hilud05p8iejduggo...@4ax.com...
>> Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
>> because of my age. I'm over the age of 21, I've been driving for 7
>> years and my license is clean. Can I file an age-discrimination suit
>> against Hertz Rental's?
>
>First of all, how have you been driving since you were 14?
16, and a lot of places you can get a license at 16 (or 16.5).
>Second, go rent a U-Haul then. Insurance is incredibly expensive for rental
>cars to young[ish] males. That's how it goes. Hertz made a business
>decision not to take the financial risk and burden of renting you a car.
>That's how it goes. It's discrimination, but it's not illegal
>discrimination.
True, but there might be better solutions, as others have pointed
out. Business rentals generally aren't subject to the age limitation
rules, so if his company negotiates a business deal (typically getting
a discount in the process), he can rent under that contract.
Seth
Tracy
news:<ltm3e0helsdfjkpe5...@4ax.com>...
> "Justin" <jwv...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:hilud05p8iejduggo...@4ax.com...
> > Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
> > rent a compact, mid-size, of full-size sedan vehicle and I was
> > I'm over the age of 21, I've been driving for 7
> > years and my license is clean. Can I file an age-discrimination suit
> > against Hertz Rental's?
>
> First of all, how have you been driving since you were 14?
The OP is 23, not 21.
Paul Cassel
> Paul Cassel wrote:
>
>> You need to see things globally here. You have a clean record, but
>> younger drivers do drive less well than older ones. Hertz can't
>> check driver records and rent accordingly. That's impossible....
>
> No, it isn't. It may be impractical, if it takes too long for Hertz
> to
> get the DMV records, but a requirement that drivers under 25 give
> their drivers license number to Hertz sufficiently in advance for
> Hertz to run a records check doesn't seem impossible today.
>
> After all insurance companies can often get "instant" (with an
> hour, anyway) records check -- why NOT Hertz?
I can't see waiting an hour on line to rent a truck or a car or holding up a
line for an hour while it gets done. This would also force Hertz to put in a
system that works 24/7 to check such records. If you go to an insurance
company to get rated and the system is down, they'll call you back in a few
hours. What if the system is down when you, a 23 year old, go to rent a
truck. Do you get a motel room and cool yourself? I see it as a burden.
That's my take. YMMV.
-paul
Arthur L. Rubin
>
> Arthur L. Rubin wrote:
> > After all insurance companies can often get "instant" (with an
> > hour, anyway) records check -- why NOT Hertz?
>
> I can't see waiting an hour on line to rent a truck or a car or holding up a
> line for an hour while it gets done.
Hertz reserves the right to require ADVANCE reservations. If they
require the DL number at that time, they could run it.
But we're straying from legal principles here.
Brian
news:<9i58e0lm2l7blahut...@4ax.com>...
> In article <ltm3e0helsdfjkpe5...@4ax.com>,
> Jon C <ne...@jonnythan.com> wrote:
> >"Justin" <jwv...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:hilud05p8iejduggo...@4ax.com...
> >> Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
> . . .
> >> because of my age. I'm over the age of 21, I've been driving for 7
> >> years and my license is clean. Can I file an age-discrimination suit
> >> against Hertz Rental's?
> >
> >First of all, how have you been driving since you were 14?
>
> 16, and a lot of places you can get a license at 16 (or 16.5).
Actually in Kansas you can get some kind of license at 14. At least
you could when I lived there in the mid-90's. I think you need to live
or work on a farm, though I think many people with just houses on
large lots of land (20+ acres) qualified.
Creeped me out, I tell you, seeing freckle faced kids behind the
wheels of those huge trucks.
NOSPA...@sebastian9.com
According to Paul Cassel <pa...@abq.com>:
He said "sufficiently in advance," i.e., not at the time of rental.
For example, you could give them the information at the time you
make an advance reservation, and they wait until they've checked
you out before they call you back with your confirmation. Or they
might make an exception to their age policies for Gold Club members,
and check you out at the time of application to the Club.
It doesn't seem impossible for them to do that, if their insurance
carrier would be willing to go along.
--
Dave Wallace (Remove NOSPAM from my address to email me)
It is quite humbling to realize that the storage occupied by the longest
line from a typical Usenet posting is sufficient to provide a state space
so vast that all the computation power in the world can not conquer it.
Timothy Horrigan
news:<hilud05p8iejduggo...@4ax.com>...
> Hertz Rental Car company stated that due to my age of 23, I could only
> rent a compact, mid-size, of full-size sedan vehicle and I was
> excluded from renting a full-size SUV or Mini-van. I run a business
> and occasionally am required to make deliveries, I'm absolutely
> floored and shocked that Hertz would exclude business owners the right
> to rent a vehicle adequate for their purpose. U-Haul has rented me
> commercial cargo van's, but they are far more expensive.
I haven't looked at the fine print on the back of a Hertz rental
contract, but aside from the age issue, you could run into trouble if
there are restrictions on what you can use the minivan for. It seems
to me that I have seen disclaimers in those contracts which states you
can only use this van to transport yourself, your companions, and your
luggage--- i.e., you wouldn't be able to use the vehicle as a taxi or
as a delivery truck.
If you frequently need to rent vehicles, you might set up an account
for your company (as others have suggested)--- possibly with a local
independent rental agency rather than through a Hertz-like renter.
OR, you could buy or lease a company van.
Mark A
news:9mfle019g61vlpi0g...@4ax.com...
> I haven't looked at the fine print on the back of a Hertz rental
> contract, but aside from the age issue, you could run into trouble if
> there are restrictions on what you can use the minivan for. It seems
> to me that I have seen disclaimers in those contracts which states you
> can only use this van to transport yourself, your companions, and your
> luggage--- i.e., you wouldn't be able to use the vehicle as a taxi or
> as a delivery truck.
>
> If you frequently need to rent vehicles, you might set up an account
> for your company (as others have suggested)--- possibly with a local
> independent rental agency rather than through a Hertz-like renter.
> OR, you could buy or lease a company van.
>
Hertz to make deliveries? I think it was probably a bunch of college kids on
vacation.
UHaul and Ryder will rent trucks and vans for commercial purposes.
As has been stated previously, Hertz will waive the under 25 rule for
companies who set up a corporate account. A sole proprietor may not qualify.
David S Chesler
news:<hhf0f05t5mo6shvm9...@4ax.com>...
> This whole thread is suspicious to me. Why would someone rent a van from
> Hertz to make deliveries?
Because, as OP stated, it is far less expensive.
> UHaul and Ryder will rent trucks and vans for commercial purposes.
Hertz rents vans. Some people pay Hertz to rent vans. Maybe they
are moving singleton big boxes (such as one 23" monitor, procured
for the customer as a convenience to go along with the expensive,
graphics-intensive software package just sold, installed and supported)
such that UHaul's cheapest van is overkill. OP wants to be one of
those people, and finds that the only factor discriminating him from
those people who have successfully rented vans from Hertz is his
age.
He may be SOL, because youth is not a protected category, but his
business plan may make perfect sense, or at least be perfectly
above board.
(I learned to drive a standard shift transmission, and thereby opened
up my lucrative alternative career as a commercial driver, at a similar
age, when I only found out when I went to pick up the truck from someone
other than UHaul, probably Hertz, that while they would rent it to me
if Mom paid for it, I wouldn't be allowed to drive it if she wasn't
with me (Duh!) and the only alternative that wouldn't have me disappoint
a bunch of college classmates moving stuff from homes in New York to
dorms in Boston was a company which, at the time, didn't have automatic
transmissions.)
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
If you can't find 'em, grind 'em
Curtis CCR
> news:9mfle019g61vlpi0g...@4ax.com...
> > I haven't looked at the fine print on the back of a Hertz rental
> > contract, but aside from the age issue, you could run into trouble if
> > there are restrictions on what you can use the minivan for. It seems
> > to me that I have seen disclaimers in those contracts which states you
> > can only use this van to transport yourself, your companions, and your
> > luggage--- i.e., you wouldn't be able to use the vehicle as a taxi or
> > as a delivery truck.
> >
> > If you frequently need to rent vehicles, you might set up an account
> > for your company (as others have suggested)--- possibly with a local
> > independent rental agency rather than through a Hertz-like renter.
> > OR, you could buy or lease a company van.
> >
> This whole thread is suspicious to me. Why would someone rent a van from
> Hertz to make deliveries? I think it was probably a bunch of college kids on
> vacation.
Done all the time. And Hertz does rent and lease trucks.
> UHaul and Ryder will rent trucks and vans for commercial purposes.
>
> As has been stated previously, Hertz will waive the under 25 rule for
> companies who set up a corporate account. A sole proprietor may not qualify.
Would probably qualify if he could provide some evidence that he
indeed runs a business. A business license, insurance documents, ect.