Double Jeopardy & Parking tickets
John Smith
I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
me two tickets for one offense?
Is this an example of double jeopardy?
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Scott Johnston
Bob Stock
>I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
Depends on what the offense was. If, for example, you parked in a
2-hour zone, and you exceeded that by being there three hours, at some
point, if you stay there long enough, they may be entitled to ticket
you again. Also, you don't say if the tickets *were* for the same
offense. You'd have to give us more information as to what the
circumstances were, and then you'd have to look at the applicable law.
>Is this an example of double jeopardy?
No. Assuming that the law permits the two tickets, then they would be
considered two transactions (sort of as if you had robbed the same
store twice in one day). In any event, jeopardy wouldn't attach until
you had been "tried" for the first ticket.
------------------------------
Bob Stock, J.D.
UCLA School of Law 1998
(not yet admitted to practice)
------------------------------
Tom Gossman
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
>
The law differs from place to place, but it is common for parking ordinances
to provide that overtime parking at a meter is a new violation after 30
minutes. This keeps people from parking all day for the price of one ticket
(which may be only a dollar or two.)
Bjork
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.<BR>
><BR>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they
>me two tickets for one offense?<BR>
><BR>
>Is this an example of double jeopardy?<BR>
><BR>
>Your help would be greatly appreciated.<BR>
><BR>
No. Double jeopardy applies to multiple punishment for the same offense.
Apparently, you violated the law by continuing to park you car in the same
spot. Under your theory, you could leave your car there forever once you
receive the first ticket. It doesn't work that way.
keh...@my-dejanews.com
> I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
> At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
> My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
> me two tickets for one offense?
>
> Is this an example of double jeopardy?
This is not double jeopardy -- that would be being tried again after having
been found not guilty.
You didn't commit one offense -- you kept committing the same offense by
leaving your car illegally parked or parked at an expired meter.
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Bill Siebert
John Smith wrote in message <35fb918b....@ganymede.rev.net>...
>Question for anyone who knows.
>
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
>
>Is this an example of double jeopardy?
>
infractions." Double jeopardy applies only to charges which are punishable
by jail.
Second, take a look at what the tickets actually say. If the ticket is for
overtime parking, you should consider the clock to have restarted at 11:05.
If it is for parking in a prohibited space, you might have some case that
you only committed one infraction.
Finally, you should discuss the case with the local prosecutor. He may be
willing to dismiss one ticket if you pay the other.
William Marvin
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they
>give me two tickets for one offense?
Depends on the exact nature of the violation and the ordinance which was
violated. If it was a time-limited violation, i.e., 2-hour limit, I don't
think it's a problem to argue that each two-hour period was a separate
violation.
>Is this an example of double jeopardy?
Nope. Double jeopardy means being tried twice for the same offense. If
these were different offenses, then it's not a problem.
You might try going in and paying the first ticket and fighting the
second.
+----------------------------------------------+
|--William D. Marvin, Esq. ++ wdm...@ibm.net--|
|---------Abington, PA (215) 881-9488---------|
|-visit Philadelphia Trial Lawyers on the Web -|
+---------- http://philatla.org ---------------+
!fortune.tag
Rich Carreiro
In article <35fb918b....@ganymede.rev.net>,
John Smith <thr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
Because the law says that each N-hour block of time the car
stays in the spot is a separate offense. This kind of thing
is very common (check our your town's building code and zoning
laws, for example).
>Is this an example of double jeopardy?
Nope.
--
Rich Carreiro
rlc...@animato.pn.com
P5-100/RedHat Linux 4.1
Brett Weiss
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
It is certainly not double jeopardy. Many jurisdictions specifically allow
such double ticketing if the maximum term on the meter has been repeatedly
exceeded.
--
Brett
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The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't
meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as such. If you want
legal advice, speak with a local lawyer familiar with your state's laws who
can review *all* of the facts and the law applicable to your situation.
*****************************************************************
David S Chesler
>>I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
>>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>>
>>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they
>>give me two tickets for one offense?
>>
>>Is this an example of double jeopardy?
>
And that's the question: is this multiple offenses or one offense?
I asked (here I think) similarly, and didn't get any definitive answer
for the same situation. (Cambridge Parking and the Mass. RMV is kind
of Kafkaesque, so I simply paid everything they asked me [total $25] and
took a job in the suburbs, but I'm still curious.)
>Apparently, you violated the law by continuing to park you car in the same
>spot. Under your theory, you could leave your car there forever once you
>receive the first ticket. It doesn't work that way.
As nearly as I could tell, the overtime parking ordinance for
Cambridge, Mass is in the published Cambridge Traffic and
Parking Regulations, section 16.9. That section says one is
guilty if one parks and leaves his vehicle too long.
It does not say "And he's guilty again for each [second|two hours|
day|year] that he leaves the car there." Supposedly after 48 hours
the anti-storage parking ordinance would apply, but that's something
different.
So when does the second offense start?
Is there anything in the ordinance that says a single act of
parking could give rise to more than one violation of 16.9?
And if it comes from the aether, then why can't the meter maid
stand and write tickets continuously, until the car is parked?
I asked how many counts of larceny I'm guilty of if I steal two
boxes of eggs, each containing one dozen eggs.
Perhaps a better analogy is if I receive stolen property -- how
long do I have to keep it before I'm guilty of a second offense?
--
David Chesler (che...@post.harvard.edu, etc.)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2955 (/riverbay.html or /paddleball.html)
"The problem isn't easy access to guns, but easy access to oxygen.
Certain people shouldn't be breathing." Don Feder, Bos Herald, 3/30/98
David S Chesler
John Smith <thr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>
>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they give
>me two tickets for one offense?
The prior discussion of this question in this newsgroup may
be found during April 1998 under the subject "Overtime parking -
how long for separate offense", with the last word being from
Bernie Cosell in message <6i5e10$2...@panix3.panix.com>. Search
with Deja News or your favorite, or try this URL:
http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=348527534
Op cit, Bernie <ber...@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
} gne...@ithaca.com (Garry W) wrote:
}
} } shedr...@aol.com (SHedr24734) wrote:
} } >This analogy would be different if you stole the eggs at different
} } >times. If you are only allowed to park for x hours, then I should
} } >think the time recycles so that every time that amount of time passes
} } >and you have not moved your vehicle, a new infraction has occured.
} }
} } That is what's being discussed. If there is a 2-hour time limit on parking,
} does a violation occur *each* time two hours have passed, or does a violation
} } occur only *once* when an (arbitrarily long) period of 2-hours-or-more has
} } passed?
} Well, I just read through the Virginia state laws that pertain to that
} [42.2-1220 through -1239] and I didn't see -anything- that addresses that
} issue.
}
} And there's more to it than just overtime parking: what about parking in a
} loadingzone/firehydrant or the like. Do we take it for granted that you
} can only get -one- ticket for doing that [and, indeed, a single loading
} zone ticket for 12-14hrs of parking might be less expensive than paying an
} hourly rate at an expensive parking garage!]? What if you get a ticket at
} one hydrant and drive around the block... even though the ticket is still
} on your windshield, does moving your car mean that you can now get a
} -second- ticket?
]
} Most of the VA State regulations seem to delegate most of the
} responsibility for dealing with parking to the localities, so for Virginia,
} at least, the answer [if there is one] would rest with the county/city
} ordinances...
Stuart O. Bronstein
>Bjork <bj...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>I was given a parking ticket today at 11:15 am
>>>At 4:05 I was given another ticket.
>>>My vehicle stayed parked in the same spot all day long. How can they
>>>give me two tickets for one offense?
>
>>Apparently, you violated the law by continuing to park you car in the same
>>spot. Under your theory, you could leave your car there forever once you
>>receive the first ticket. It doesn't work that way.
>
> It does not say "And he's guilty again for each [second|two hours|
>day|year] that he leaves the car there." Supposedly after 48 hours
>the anti-storage parking ordinance would apply, but that's something
>different.
If the ordinance allows you to park there for two hours, then each two
hour block is another violation. I have seldom seen multiple tickets on
cars that are parked overtime. But it makes sense.
> I asked how many counts of larceny I'm guilty of if I steal two
>boxes of eggs, each containing one dozen eggs.
> Perhaps a better analogy is if I receive stolen property -- how
>long do I have to keep it before I'm guilty of a second offense?
If it is one transaction it is one offense. If you steal one egg and
immediately decide it was a great idea and then steal another, that is two
offenses.
In the parking situation the rule (I presume) says that you are only
allowed to park for a specified period of time. Each time you exceed a
new period, it is a new violation.
--
Stu (delete * from email address)
"'If the law supposes that,' said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat
emphatically in both hands, 'the law is a ass - a idiot.'"
Oliver Twist, Charles Dickens
Barry Kade
<wsie...@voyager.net> wrote:
>For starters, parking tickets are not criminal charges, but "civil
>infractions."
>
That depends on the jurisdiction. In Vermont parking infractions are
technically criminal violations of a local code.
> Double jeopardy applies only to charges which are punishable
>by jail.
Close. Double jeopardy apples only to charges which are criminal and
therefore punishable. If the fine is sufficient to be "punishment"
than double jeopardy would apply, regardless of the designation.
>
>Second, take a look at what the tickets actually say. If the ticket is for
>overtime parking, you should consider the clock to have restarted at 11:05.
>If it is for parking in a prohibited space, you might have some case that
>you only committed one infraction.
I'd say that it depends on the language of the code. In Burlington,
Vermont where I often forget to feed the meter, the code specifies
that it is a separate violation after 2 hours. The theory is that I
allowed my car to be parked at 3pm and I allowed it to be parked at
5p.m. Two separate acts, even though I parked once.
>Finally, you should discuss the case with the local prosecutor. He may be
>willing to dismiss one ticket if you pay the other.
>
She may.
Barry
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David S Chesler
Stuart O. Bronstein <sab@*idiom.com> wrote:
>If the ordinance allows you to park there for two hours, then each two
>hour block is another violation. I have seldom seen multiple tickets on
>cars that are parked overtime. But it makes sense.
Then it should be in the ordinance. Sometimes it is.
>> I asked how many counts of larceny I'm guilty of if I steal two
>>boxes of eggs, each containing one dozen eggs.
>
>If it is one transaction it is one offense. If you steal one egg and
>immediately decide it was a great idea and then steal another, that is two
>offenses.
But if you park the car and don't move it...?
>In the parking situation the rule (I presume) says that you are only
>allowed to park for a specified period of time.
It says (in Cambridge, MA) that if you leave it there longer than
that, you have committed a violation.
> Each time you exceed a
>new period, it is a new violation.
Park car at 9:00am, and leave it.
At 11:01am car has been there more than the period 9:00am to 11:00am.
At 11:02am car has been there more than the period 9:01am to 11:01am.
At 11:03am car has been there more than the period 9:02am to 11:02am.
etc.
Conversely, if you do get a ticket at 11:01am, do you have a right
to leave your car there until 1:01pm? Why?