Can I get fired for having long hair?
JS
Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
I started growing my hair long back in 95 or 96. Nothing was ever said
about it being long until last year when we got a new director of
Human Resources, who also happens to run my department. Early last
year I was called into my supervisors office and he informed me that
the HR director didn't like my uniform, particularly my long hair. I
told him I wasn't going to cut it. Several weeks went by and my
supervisor came to me and said he was told to forget about my hair for
now. Nothing was said until earlier this year. Now I'm being harrased
about my hair once again. There is no policy about long hair in the
employee handbook. I'm an honest, extremely reliable employee who
doesn't have any negative comments in my personal file. I wanted to
know can I legally be fired for having long hair and also can I sue
the company for putting me through this harrassment. I'm worried
everyday that I come in I'm going to be fired and with taking care of
my semi-handicapped mother I need this job. I've been getting into
fights with both my girlfriend and mother over this. This mental
anguish is really starting to play havoc with my nerves. Thanks for
any and all help.
Christopher Green
news:<3c851c1a$0$1823$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>...
> I've been working as a security guard at a Public Tv/Radio station in
> Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
> know can I legally be fired for having long hair and also can I sue
> the company for putting me through this harrassment. I'm worried
> everyday that I come in I'm going to be fired and with taking care of
> my semi-handicapped mother I need this job. I've been getting into
> fights with both my girlfriend and mother over this. This mental
> anguish is really starting to play havoc with my nerves. Thanks for
> any and all help.
Pennsylvania is an "employment at will" state and does not recognize
"implied contract" or "good faith and fair dealing" exceptions
(http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2001/01/art1full.pdf), so you can be
fired for a stupid reason or no reason at all, even if you have done a
good job, and even if you have an employee handbook that says nothing
about long hair. You would have recourse only if you could show that
your firing was against public policy (e.g. you refused to break a law
on your employer's behalf) or discrimination against a protected class
(last time I checked, long hair didn't by itself put you in any kind
of protected class).
In your employer's shoes, I would regard your obstinacy in not
complying with a reasonable and lawful direction (e.g. don't come to
work with long hair) to be insubordination. (If I do this, I'm not
being smart, or not being fair. But I'm the boss, and nothing says I
have to be either of those things.) So if you really need this job as
badly as you say you do, you will probably need to get a haircut.
--
Not a lawyer,
Chris Green
Paul Cassel
"JS" <spearmi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c851c1a$0$1823$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
> I've been working as a security guard at a Public Tv/Radio station in
> Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
> I started growing my hair long back in 95 or 96. Nothing was ever said
> about it being long until last year when we got a new director of
> Human Resources, who also happens to run my department.
Ask if there are company regulations about hair length and if so, ask to
read them. If they exist, then ask why they haven't been enforced before.
You may be able to get yourself an exemption from the regulation (if it
exists) by having had it unenforced for so long. There may be no such
regulation.
> I've been getting into
> fights with both my girlfriend and mother over this. This mental
> anguish is really starting to play havoc with my nerves. Thanks for
> any and all help.
Notwithstanding the above, have you ever heard the expression, "Pick your
fights."? Is all this anguish worth a haircut? If you do win somehow (say
there is no reg so HR backs down) is it worth antagonizing your new boss?
-paul
ianal, but I pick my fights.
>
MSu1049321
Are you by chance Hasidic? You could always say it's part of your religion.;-)
And how come they're not buggin on you for not wearing sandals with the long
hair... it's public broadcasting, isn't it?;-)
Fun aside, my guess is the delay was due to them not having a specific enough
dress code in place to make it stick. Have you looked carefully at all the
employee handbooks lately, to see if they snuck in a new rule yet? Once they
do, You'll have to cut or be cut. If they had a policy or code when you were
hired, you would have had to go by it. Not having something specific, their
next tactic will be to see if they can find something more general about
appearance and tie it to your performance in a negative way. So, shine those
shoes, bud. And don't get caught slacking in any other way but your
hyperpilosity.;-)
Would cutting it be all tha awful? Considering your financial situation. OTOH,
if someone tried to force me to cut or grow a mustache, on pain of termination,
without having the rule when I was hired, I'd be calling the ACLU on speed
dial. American Taliban, hm?
If you insist on letting your freak flag fly, perhaps there is something else
about your uniform you could change or upgrade to show you are making a good
faith effort to look your best on duty. Or find a differnet way to braid the
hair? It's not legalistic, but it's what humans do to get along. Also, start
looking for another job; you're not going to be happy in that kind of
atmosphere, no matter what happens.
E. K. Roth
news:3c851c1a$0$1823$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
>I've been working as a security guard...
>I started growing my hair long back in 95 or 96....
>I wanted to know can I legally be fired for having
>long hair and also can I sue the company for putting
>me through this harrassment. I'm worried every day...
You can sue almost anyone for almost anything. Can I win?, is a
different question.
My advice: Forget the legal aspects of the whole thing. It would
be, in my opinion, *way* more trouble that it's worth. If your job
isn't worth cutting your hair for, you need a better job. There are
jobs out there. Find one that lets you be yourself.
I am not a lawyer.
Rico
jwe...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
: I've been working as a security guard at a Public Tv/Radio station in
NOTE: I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice.
Unless you have a contract (which may be in the form of a
collective bargaining agreement through a union,) or your state is not a
"right to work" state (are there any that are not?) you may be fired at
any time for any reason or for no reason (as long as that reason is not
illegal discrimination, like discrimination based upon race, gender,
etc.) So, most likely, the answer to your question is yes, you can be
firred for having long hair and not cutting it when asked by your
superior(s).
Joe
Ben Masel
JS wrote:
>
> I've been working as a security guard at a Public Tv/Radio station in
> Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
> I started growing my hair long back in 95 or 96.
Best bet would be a gender discrimination claim, presuming they have
distinct policies for men and women.
--
________________________________________
ben
I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State.
________________________________________
Eliyahu
"JS" <spearmi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c851c1a$0$1823$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
>
I wanted to
> know can I legally be fired for having long hair
Yes.
>and also can I sue
> the company for putting me through this harrassment.
You can sue them for just about anything. Winning is another matter.
>I'm worried
> everyday that I come in I'm going to be fired and with taking care of
> my semi-handicapped mother I need this job. I've been getting into
> fights with both my girlfriend and mother over this. This mental
> anguish is really starting to play havoc with my nerves. Thanks for
> any and all help.
>
Having worn my own hair over the past half century anywhere from
below-shoulder-length to a military flat top, I would also remind you...
it'll grow back if you cut it short. That's how barbers stay in business. If
you like the job or feel that getting another job would be difficult, get it
cut for the present time. If not, start checking out the classified ads for
one where you'll be able to keep your hair long.
--
Eliyahu Rooff
www.geocities.com/Area51/Underworld/8096/HomePage.htm
RSG Rollcall http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/rooffe.htm
Y-c...@webtv.net
>I've been working as a security guard at
> a Public Tv/Radio station in
> Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
> I was called into my supervisors office
> and he informed me that the HR director
> didn't like my uniform, particularly my
> long hair. I told him I wasn't going to cut
> it. I wanted to know can I legally be
> fired for having long hair and also can I
> sue the company for putting me through
> this harrassment. I'm worried everyday
> that I come in I'm going to be fired and
> with taking care of my
> semi-handicapped mother I need this
> job. I've been getting into fights with
> both my girlfriend and mother over this.
You have chosen to make your "hair freedom" a cause with not only your
employer,but your family and girl-friend also, the question is WHY ?
An attitude of rebellion to those who are the most important in your
life, for an inexplicable reason implies a lack of emotional and
psychological balance.
If the job you have requires emotional stability,it may be that your
boss is testing your mental health more than "enforcing" a grooming
code.
Security guards are under greater strain since 9/11 and any employer who
didn't consider your non-conformity as a "red flag" would be derelict
in his duty.
Arthur L. Rubin
> Unless you have a contract (which may be in the form of a
> collective bargaining agreement through a union,) or your state is not a
> "right to work" state
I think you mean "employment at will", rather than "right to work".
"Right to work" states are those in which union contracts requiring
all employees to join the union are illegal.
Garry Wiegand
>You have chosen to make your "hair freedom" a cause with not only your
>employer,but your family and girl-friend also, the question is WHY ?
Y-chat, you have chosen to make "hair freedom" a cause for your Usenet
postings. The question is WHY? More specifically, why do you, and some
employers, care about matters that are unrelated to the performance of the
job?
>If the job you have requires emotional stability,it may be that your
>boss is testing your mental health more than "enforcing" a grooming
>code.
Trying to drive everyone crazy is a good way to test emotional stability? Why
not instead wait and see how the employee reacts under *real* job-related
conditions of stress, and use that result instead to measure the *real*
performance of the employee?
>Security guards are under greater strain since 9/11 and any employer who
>didn't consider your non-conformity as a "red flag" would be derelict
>in his duty.
Is everyone who doesn't "conform" now automatically a suspicious character,
subject to employment penalties? I do not think this would be a good result
for the country.
More to the point... your opinion about the poster's grooming does not
directly relate to the legal issue. Legally, as other people have said,
people can usually be fired for any reason or for no reason at all.
Hm. I notice that the poster is employed by a public TV station. If that
public TV station is publicly owned, there may exist a policy on record on
the subject somewhere other than in the employee handbook.
Hm. If women at his place of employment are permitted to have long hair, but
he is not, I think that might be a prima facie claim of federal workplace sex
discrimination. Such discrimination is sometimes legal when there is a valid
business-related reason for the discrimination, but in this case I do not see
that any such reason would exist. The "expectations" of customers and bosses
are insufficient under the law to justify such discrimination - otherwise all
plane hospitality agents would still be young and female.
I wonder if this particular sex discrimination issue has ever been litigated
through. My law server (such as it is) is unfortunately down at the moment.
Filing a federal lawsuit against the station would be a good way to test
their resolve on the matter. Perhaps the other TV outlets in town would pick
up on the "story". Note: in some states employers are not allowed to fire you
on the basis of having sued the employer, but in other states they can. I do
not know what the federal stance on that would be.
hope this helps,
Garry
PS - I have heard of males wearing hairpieces while at work, so that the long
hair is invisible. If you do that, and they -still- harass you, "surely"
there would be some grounds for action in Pennsylvania...
Kath
news:3c86bb49$0$9408$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
> In your employer's shoes, I would regard your obstinacy in not
> complying with a reasonable and lawful direction (e.g. don't come to
> work with long hair) to be insubordination.
It may be best to comply with an employer's request as to personal
appearance, especially in an employment-at-will situation, but it's a pretty
sad deal and sexist to boot. Women can wear their hair any length they
choose; there is no reason why men cannot also. Someone eventually will
sue.
Ben Masel
I do recall an instance of an male employee in the Milwaukee area
winning reinstatement over a termination for a necktie policy, arguing
that, as women were exempted, the rule amounted to gender
discrimination. Sorry, don't remember if it was a Court action, or an
Administrative process.
Katherine Griffis
news:<3c87eb89$0$17034$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>...
> >JS wrote:
>
> >I've been working as a security guard at
> > a Public Tv/Radio station in
> > Philadelphia, Pa since 1992.
>
> > I was called into my supervisors office
> > and he informed me that the HR director
> > didn't like my uniform, particularly my
> > long hair. I told him I wasn't going to cut
> > it. I wanted to know can I legally be
> > fired for having long hair and also can I
> > sue the company for putting me through
Y-Chat replied:
> You have chosen to make your "hair freedom" a cause with not only your
> employer,but your family and girl-friend also, the question is WHY ?
<snip>
> Security guards are under greater strain since 9/11 and any employer who
> didn't consider your non-conformity as a "red flag" would be derelict
> in his duty.
I question whether his "non-conformity" is enough of a reason to fire
him, however. Notwithstanding the "employment at will" situation, has
anyone looked
to what SCOTUS has said on this matter?
On whether one can discriminate on the unspoken basis for
"non-conformity":
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/000/u10277.html
PURKETT v. ELEM, ___ U.S. ___ (1995)
JAMES PURKETT, SUPERINTENDENT, FARMINGTON CORRECTIONS CENTER v.
JIMMY ELEM
ON PETITION FOR WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF
APPEALS FOR THE EIGHTH CIRCUIT
In dissenting opinion, Justices Stevens and Breyer noted, on challenge
of peremptory strikes by prosecutor of a juror with long hair (case
was overturned on this basis, not exclueivly to the topic below,
however):
"In some cases, conceivably the length and unkempt character of a
juror's hair and goatee-type beard might give rise to a concern that
he is a nonconformist who might not be a good juror. In this case,
however, the prosecutor did not identify any such concern. He merely
said he did not "`like the way [the juror] looked,'" that the facial
hair "`look[ed] suspicious.'" Ante, at 1. I think this explanation may
well be pretextual as a matter of law; it has nothing to do with the
case at hand, and it is just as evasive as "I had a hunch." Unless a
reviewing court may evaluate such explanations when a trial judge
fails to find that a prima facie case has been established, appellate
or collateral review of Batson claims will amount to nothing more than
the meaningless charade that the Missouri Supreme Court correctly
understood Batson to disfavor. Antwine, 743 S. W. 2d, at 65."
See also
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/404/1042.html
OLFF v. EAST SIDE UNION HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT , 404 U.S. 1042 (1972)
Writ of certiorari denied
Dissenting opinion also instructive here.
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/409/524.html
HAM v. SOUTH CAROLINA, 409 U.S. 524 (1973)
Reversed; see Douglas' concur/dissent opinion, citing Olff.
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/408/169.html
HEALY v. JAMES, 408 U.S. 169 (1972)
(J. Douglas' concurring appendix to opinion)
Depending upon how much appearance has an effect upon work habits, and
perception of trustworthiness, see
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/497/62.html
RUTAN v. REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ILLINOIS, 497 U.S. 62 (1990)
Note where employer cannot regulate mode of appearance of private
citizen unless under particular circumstances, to be read in line with
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/425/238.html
KELLEY v. JOHNSON, 425 U.S. 238 (1976)
HTH.
Regards --
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg, J.D.
University of Alabama at Birmingham
UAB Options/Special Studies
DISCLAIMER:
Not a practicing attorney, and no attorney-client relationship is
created.
This response is for discussion purposes only. It isn't meant to be
legal advice. If you wish legal advice, seek out an attorney in your
own state who is familiar with your state's laws and applications
thereof.
Beatlnik
news:<3c89266f$1$24092$4c41...@reader1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>...
Why can't a Man wear his hair long in the workplace?
as long as it's neat and clean it shouldn't really matter.
there's many Long haired professionals out there right now. I can't
understand why some 1940's mentality person would try to get him to
cut his hair off in this day in age and he's a security guy!
If I were him I would contact the ACLU imediately regarding this
issue.
furthermore, I think he should refuse to cut it on grounds of "Sexual
discrimination" .