sick kid at playgroup-am I crazy?
Sarah
playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
times her kid had a really runny nose. The first time my kid got a
really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
about it. Well, I went to the playgroup again just a few days ago and
same lady was there with kid with runny nose. I asked her about it
and she said that baby was just "teething". Then at the end of the
playdate, she said that maybe her kid was sick 'cause baby was crying
and fussing a lot the whole time. I called pediatrician afterwards
who said teething or not, runny nose equals a cold. I verified this,
and sometimes it could be allergies. I emailed lady about this, in a
very nice way, saying maybe she'd be interested to know, maybe her kid
has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
GI Trekker
and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I?>>
Hell no. You have a right to look after the welfare of your own child, and a
child who is ill, especially with something contagious, has NO business being
around other small children like this. If the mother is being angry and
defensive, then she needs to be told by SEVERAL parents of this playgroup to
keep her runny-nosed kid at home until the child is healthy again. That, as you
said, is just common sense.
Truffles
I think it probably would have been better if you had broached the
subject with the playgroup facilitator (or whatever the title is) than
dealing directly with her. I agree with you that a sick child should
not be brought to a playgroup, though.
--
Brigitte
SAHM to Katerina and Joshua
October 20, 2001
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/
toto
>I think I have
>been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
>responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
>about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
>courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
>me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
Where is the playgroup held? Have any rules been discussed?
If this is a *mommy and me* held by the community center, then
you should speak with the playgroup leader or the director of the
center. These people can send out a written rule that will cover
this and I agree that children who are sick should not be brought
in. If this is in peopls's homes, then certainly each mother who
is hosting should be able to explain nicely to the other moms that
sick children should not come to the group.
It does help though if things like this are discussed and made
clear before the playgroup begins.
Dorothy
--
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits
toypup
"Sarah" <bu...@cutey.com> wrote in message
news:fa21c523.03033...@posting.google.com...
> has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
> it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
> equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
> following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
> infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
> and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
> been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
> responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
> about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
> courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
> me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
Well, I don't think she should bring a sick kid to a playgroup. I've kept
DS home when he was ill. However, I disagree that a runny nose equals a
cold. DS and I have allergies that worsen with the winds and often that
means a runny nose. That does not mean a cold. My brother is allergic to
our cat and his nose runs whenever he comes over and at no other time. If I
had to keep DS from coming to a playgroup because of a runny nose, he'd
never get to join a playgroup.
Kavvy
> Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
> playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
> times her kid had a really runny nose.
Is there a person 'in charge' of the play group? If so then go to them and
that person should probably send a note to all parents clearly stating when
children should not come, similar to what daycare's do. If there is no such
person then I think it would be smart to address the issue as a group and
draw up some guidelines.
IMO I do think you crossed the line when you started giving advice or
information to the parent. I'd be a bit miffed if someone started emailing
me a bunch of un-asked for advice regarding common things like colds and ear
infections.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (3) and Luke (1)
P. Tierney
"Kavvy" <sefa...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message news:3e892259_2@newsfeed...
But I'd also be miffed if a negligant parent got my kid sick, twice,
because she either didn't know about common poor-health signs, or
didn't care to protect the other kids from her sick child. So, the
"miffs" negate each other (though I think that the first one committed
is more serious).
I agree about the guidelines. My guess from reading the OP again
is that they don't have them, or anyone "in charge", possibly because
they've never had a reason for such a person.
P.
Tierney
Prague Jen
wrote on 4/1/03 6:58:
My own personal rule is that runny noses are fine as long as it's clear
mucus (and the child is feeling well, acting normally, etc.). Once it gets
yellow or green, then that's a sign of infection/cold and time to stay home,
even if the child is bouncy and happy. Also, we stay home if she's had a
fever in the last 24 hours, or is generally under the weather.
Prague Jen
Momma to Max, 6.97 and Emma, 6.01
Denise
I don't know if you're being nosey.. is the snot clear or green? My
youngest daughter is a snotty snotty baby. We're actually going to have her
tested for Cystic Fibrosis. But she constantly sounds like she's hacking up
a long and her face is always snotty, and her two older sisters are healthy
as horses.. But if the kid is genuinely sick, than no, her baby shouldn't be
at playgroup. Have any of the other moms said anything?
Denise
Ericka Kammerer
> Where is the playgroup held? Have any rules been discussed?
>
> If this is a *mommy and me* held by the community center, then
> you should speak with the playgroup leader or the director of the
> center. These people can send out a written rule that will cover
> this and I agree that children who are sick should not be brought
> in. If this is in peopls's homes, then certainly each mother who
> is hosting should be able to explain nicely to the other moms that
> sick children should not come to the group.
>
> It does help though if things like this are discussed and made
> clear before the playgroup begins.
I agree. I think it's absolutely correct that she shouldn't
have brought a sick child to playgroup. There's nothing that's
perfect, as kids are often contagious before you really know
they're sick, but when a child is obviously sick it's a no-brainer.
That said, I probably wouldn't have approached it by
getting into a discussion where I was offering diagnoses or
appearing to tell the other mother how to manager her child's
health. I think *that* was where a line was crossed. It's
true it could be allergies, but it wasn't really the OP's
business to bring that up in this context. I would
ideally have worked through the playgroup leader or host. I
might also have considered, if necessary, removing my child
and explaining that we just couldn't afford another cold right
now. At any rate, now is the time to talk to the group and
come up with some kind of consensus about what to do with
sick children and how to enforce it.
Best wishes,
Ericka
Elizabeth Reid
Well, my son is a day-care baby, and they do not ask us to keep
him home when he has a cold. Their reasoning is that children are
infectious with colds before the symptoms appear, so trying to
segregate them *after* the symptoms appear would cause difficulties
without actually preventing the spread of illness. They're pretty
strict about stomach symptoms, because spread of those illnesses
can sometimes be prevented by keeping the ill child home, but not
cold viruses. Also, there's the fact that if they exluded kids
with colds they could pretty much shut down the center. :-)
I understand that playgroup is a different situation, because it's
optional and not every day, so maybe a different standard should
apply. However, if this woman has or has had children in day
care, or if her child has older siblings, she may have adopted
the somewhat resigned attitude that kids all get these viruses
anyway, so there's no point in fretting over it, and she may feel
that keeping her child home from playgroup every time he has
a cold is overkill. This might explain her reaction.
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
Banty
>
> I agree. I think it's absolutely correct that she shouldn't
>have brought a sick child to playgroup. There's nothing that's
>perfect, as kids are often contagious before you really know
>they're sick, but when a child is obviously sick it's a no-brainer.
> That said, I probably wouldn't have approached it by
>getting into a discussion where I was offering diagnoses or
>appearing to tell the other mother how to manager her child's
>health. I think *that* was where a line was crossed. It's
>true it could be allergies, but it wasn't really the OP's
>business to bring that up in this context. I would
>ideally have worked through the playgroup leader or host. I
>might also have considered, if necessary, removing my child
>and explaining that we just couldn't afford another cold right
>now. At any rate, now is the time to talk to the group and
>come up with some kind of consensus about what to do with
>sick children and how to enforce it.
>
>Best wishes,
>Ericka
I'd also suggest that the group leader have a chat with a pediatrician about
what is a concern and what isn't. True - a runny nose could be a cold, but it
could also be an allergy. I'm not so sure about the advice I read here that
clear is OK, yellowish or greenish is bad - because as far as *contagiousness*
clear and very runny could be a contagious stage of a cold, while the thicker
mucous would be a secondary infection that, while more serious for the child, is
not contagious as I understand it (but I'm not a doc - so I'd check with a doc -
if it's contagious ask how many days of an antibiotic course is necessary to
address that).
Coughs should be brought up. Coughs do tend to linger after an illness is gone,
or can be a symptom of something like asthma, and I've witnessed parents
removing their children from children with coughs only who have been up and
going for some time after an illness.
You don't want to send away kids with allergies and non-contagious stages of
illness if they're feeling well and energetic, and, right, there will be no
perfect illness-protecting policy. Washing hands and toys is the best
illness-protecting policy.
People vary on this stuff, too. I had a neighbor upset with me after her child
played with mine after he had some kind of GI bug and was throwing up the
evening before; but told me I was being silly when later I sent her child away
when my son had a head cold, thinking she'd want the same policy. (Go figure.)
Banty
Bippy
very young. I kept my mouth shut because it made me so angry that I
knew I wouldn't be able to broach the subject w/o making her mad. (I
lack your tact!)
Long story short, she had everyone over to her house for a Christmas
brunch, and neglected to tell us till we'd finished our breakfast that
she'd been up all night throwing up. Needless to say, 6 out of the 10
in attendance caught her wretched bug, including me and my daughter. I
called and nicely (through clenched teeth) explained how bad the
situation was (I fell violently ill smack in the middle of my
husband's office party ... how embarrassing!). She was defensive and
basically told me I was blaming her for nothing. She claimed she just
had a case of food poisoning which wasn't contagious. Then I heard
from the others in the group who caught her stomach bug. When I
realized it wasn't just me, and then my daughter (6 mos. at the time)
caught it, I called her each time my daughter threw up or woke us up
miserable the entire night. "Just thought I'd let you know that Hannah
still had your food poisoning. She's up and so are we. I thought you
should be up too." I was a little a$$ about it!
She did finally apologize, but continued to bring her little boy to
the playgroup activities while he was sick. We dropped out of the
group. Which was a shame since I was the facilitator and organized the
group from the very beginning.
These things are unfortunate, but folks like that are unlikely to
change. They really feel it's no big deal.
"Sarah" <bu...@cutey.com> wrote in message
news:fa21c523.03033...@posting.google.com...
Tat
Some babies are snotty - period - cold or no cold. I certainly would not
stay at home with a baby if she only
had a cold - I'd never go out!
Your baby is just as likely to catch a cold from this child as somebody in a
shop or out in the street.
If you don't want your kid to catch anything keep out of these situations -
otherwise butt out. I'd be fuming if you'd emailed me giving me advice
about taking my child to a playgroup with a snotty nose. Kids get sick,
being in a group situation with other kids will inevitably result in them
catching things - either deal with it or don't take him.
Katie
Mummy to Rhian and Kira
Rosalie B.
>Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
>playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
>times her kid had a really runny nose. The first time my kid got a
>really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
>was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
>about it. Well, I went to the playgroup again just a few days ago and
I would NOT have emailed her.
>same lady was there with kid with runny nose. I asked her about it
>and she said that baby was just "teething". Then at the end of the
>playdate, she said that maybe her kid was sick 'cause baby was crying
>and fussing a lot the whole time. I called pediatrician afterwards
If you have a problem with it, you can always leave.
>who said teething or not, runny nose equals a cold. I verified this,
>and sometimes it could be allergies. I emailed lady about this, in a
>very nice way, saying maybe she'd be interested to know, maybe her kid
>has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
>it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
>equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
>following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
>infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
>and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
I also think you are being nosy and pushy. And also judgmental and
rude.
If you have a concern about your child's health, a playgroup is
optional. I don't even think it is particularly helpful at this age.
>been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
>responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
>about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
No you don't have any such responsibility unless you are the director
or whatever they have at playgroups. It is totally not your business,
and you should apologize to her and butt out.
>courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
>me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
I had an instructor once who said "Common sense isn't common".
Yes you are correct that a sick child shouldn't be at a playgroup, but
you are not a doctor, and you don't even play one on TV. It's just
totally not your job to try to legislate playgroups.
grandma Rosalie
Michelle S. Spina
Is there a policy about this with the playgroup, or is it an informal,
neighborhood thing? If it's an organized activity, then as others have
already stated, you should have a talk with the organizer and have her
clearly post and announce a friendly reminder about colds and attending
playgroup. If it's an informal thing, then I think you don't really have
anything to do. I DO think that it was WAY out of line for you to
email/call the mother directly. That was pushing rude, if you ask me. If
you don't like it that she often brings in a child with a cold, then you
should simply find another playgroup. Also, if I understand this
correctly, you emailed her after your *second* attendance at playgroup?
Again, that was pretty ballsy of you - you are the new kid on the block,
informing long-time attendees of how playgroup should run? Finally, did
your child actually interact with this baby at all? How do you know that
your child got sick from this particular child?
I'd simply avoid this person and her child at playgroup, or find another
one if I were you... And, I'd start accepting the fact that once your
child starts interacting with other kids, they are going to get sick. A
lot. That's pretty much a fact of life, regardless of whether or not the
other kids actively look sick (you are usually contagious well BEFORE
any symptoms show up). If you don't want your child to get sick, then
you should stay at home.
m.
Ruth Baltopoulos
> bu...@cutey.com (Sarah) wrote:
>>Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
>>playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
>>times her kid had a really runny nose.<snip>
> Well, my son is a day-care baby, and they do not ask us to keep
> him home when he has a cold. <snip>
> I understand that playgroup is a different situation, because it's
> optional and not every day, so maybe a different standard should
> apply.<snip>
I operate a child care, and the rule of thumb is that other than
a common cold, the child may not attend. In my policy book, a
child is considered ill if they have a fever of over 100
degrees, there is *colored* nasal discharge, vomiting, diarrhea,
or any other contagious illness (conjuctivitis, ear infection, etc.).
I also expect the child to remain at home for at least 24 hours after
starting meds (ear infection, conjunctivitis), and after a bout of
vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I feel that it is unrealistic to exclude
a child from activities or child care due to a cold, as some kids
may never get to attend! With a playgroup, it is definitely a
different story. But, your child will be exposed and develop
immunities at some point, right? I see children that do not have
much interaction with groups at a younger age spending a considerable
amount of time missing school when they begin kindergarten or preschool.
I would not have contacted the parent, personally. It seems a bit
over the top. I would more likely have spoken to whomever coordinates
the playgroup, or if that someone did not exist, ask for a meeting of
the minds as regards illness policies.
Ruth B
Mary Gordon
rumours are true. The average toddler really does get 8-10 colds a
year. If you manage to keep them isolated from kids with colds (I
think you'd have to live in a bubble to achieve that) then all you've
really done delay the agony into preschool or kindergarten. Its
annoying, but there isn't much you can do about it - its kind of like
they have to go through a lot of minor infections to get basic
immunity to the every day stuff out there. Since colds can drag on, if
we all stayed home when kids had the sniffles, we'd never leave the
front porch.
I can understand keeping a kid home with something more serious that
you really don't want other kids to get, like infectious stage chicken
pox, the flu, bronchitis, whatever - but a runny nose?
With three kids in the house, I swear, we had winters where noses ran
from September to May.
Mary G.
Kavvy
> I operate a child care, and the rule of thumb is that other than
> a common cold, the child may not attend. In my policy book, a
> child is considered ill if they have a fever of over 100
> degrees, there is *colored* nasal discharge, vomiting, diarrhea,
> or any other contagious illness (conjuctivitis, ear infection, etc.).> I
also expect the child to remain at home for at least 24 hours after
> starting meds (ear infection, conjunctivitis), and after a bout of
> vomiting, diarrhea, etc.
This is like my daycare policy as well.
I feel that it is unrealistic to exclude
> a child from activities or child care due to a cold, as some kids
> may never get to attend!
That was my thought. Although each playgroup can decide that for
themselves. It might be a pretty lonely playgroup though :-)
The playgroup should decide *as a group* its policies so parents on both
sides of the fence can make a decision about participation or finding a
different playgroup that is more in line with there philosophy.
Kavvy
> But I'd also be miffed if a negligant parent got my kid sick,
> twice, because she either didn't know about common poor-health signs,
> or didn't care to protect the other kids from her sick child. So, the
> "miffs" negate each other (though I think that the first one committed
> is more serious).
Well two wrongs don't make a right ;-) And to be honest, my point of view
is that the second one was more serious, odviously a YMMV sort of thing.
I just can't get to worked up about colds. It seems one of my kids always
has a cold. If I stayed home for runny noses we'd go out once every 6
weeks, and I'm not exaggerating. I don't go to playgroups so I'm in the
clear on that one :-) I do use daycare and follow their written policies
regarding health and attendance - to a T.
So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a runny
nose?
Nevermind
kept away from *all* illnesses, however minor, I have never tried to
keep my kids away from other kids who have minor colds.
I generally follow the guidelines that preschools and daycares do when
deciding whether my own kids can go out among others and deciding
whether other kids can play with mine: No if the child has had fever,
vomiting or diarrhea within 24 hours or has a "nasty cold" (e.g.,
seems "sick" from it or is coughing up stuff or has green snots); Yes
if she has nothing worse than a runny nose. Heck, some kids would be
home all winter if a simple runny nose kept them home.
bu...@cutey.com (Sarah) wrote in message news:<fa21c523.03033...@posting.google.com>...
Clisby Williams
Sarah wrote:
IMO, you were way out of line. In what way do you have a responsibility to
set rules for a playgroup you've attended only a few times?
I'm puzzled by your reaction to what sounds like a garden-variety cold.
Unless my
child was particularly sickly, I wouldn't see any reason to keep him
away from children
with colds. Heck, who knows what kids are exposed to every time you
take them
to the grocery store?
Clisby
Banty
>
>Sarah wrote:
>Is there a policy about this with the playgroup, or is it an informal,
>neighborhood thing? If it's an organized activity, then as others have
>already stated, you should have a talk with the organizer and have her
>clearly post and announce a friendly reminder about colds and attending
>playgroup. If it's an informal thing, then I think you don't really have
>anything to do.
Once I dealt with my neighbor who wanted all sorts of protection against a
stomach bug, but didn't care about a cold (and was rude about it as if everyone
shared her particular viewpoint), I decided that for neighborhood kids, the only
rational policy to take is that which the school district in the area takes.
Because all the kids in my neighborhood at least have sibs in school, so being
more conservative than that is fruitless. So that, at best, is what can be
reasonably expected for a neighborhood playgroup IMO.
That would be 12 hours after the last vomiting episode, and there is also a
fever redline (but, I forget it, beleive or not, since my son hasn't run a
fever), but colds are allowed.
I headed off my neighbor's concerns by stating *that* as my policy (her son had
played with mine *after* 12 hours had passed - the mom just gets really freaky
and squicky about vomit), and I wasnt' going to answer to any special concern
from her about illness after that episode.
Other neighbors haven't voiced any particular policy - pretty much folks keep
kids home when the kid feels bad, and lets them play when they feel up to it.
It's just about impossible to expect the whole world to go beyond a certain
length to prevent exposure of others to colds. The measures *everyone* can take
is to wash one's hands frequently, and keep one's resistance up by rest and
diet.
Banty
Ruth Baltopoulos
> But I'd also be miffed if a negligant parent got my kid sick, twice,
> because she either didn't know about common poor-health signs, or
> didn't care to protect the other kids from her sick child. So, the
> "miffs" negate each other (though I think that the first one committed
> is more serious).
I have never felt a cold to be synonymous with sick :) I operate
a business that I have closed (4) times in 15 years. Each time I
closed I was *sick*. If I closed every time my nose was runny, all
of my clients would be gone. If my girls missed school every time
they had a cold, the truant officer would be my new best friend.
I have always told my girls that there is a big difference between
not feeling well, and being sick. I honestly can't imagine how one
can feel that a parent can be considered *negligent* for being out
with a child that has a runny nose. If, as in the second occasion
mentioned by the OP, the problem escalates and the child is very
fussy and uncomfortable as well as having a cold, perhaps the parent
should have then taken the child home. In my child care, I would
never call and pull a parent out of work for a child who is fussy
and has a runny nose. There would have to be some other symptom
for me to make a call. What I do is make sure that everyone is
washing hands, and that any toys handled by that child are cleaned
immediately.
Ruth B
city girl
"Kavvy" <sefa...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message news:3e89b892_2@newsfeed...
>
> So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a runny
> nose?
>
this cold winter, and had a runny nose for a few weeks. We did not keep her
home, as she felt fine, and she went out for walks, to her music class etc.
So did other kids. I really don't think runny nose is enough to quarantine a
child, and neither do people whose kids DD plays with, thankfully.
Alena
kristi
> >
> I can understand keeping a kid home with something more serious that
> you really don't want other kids to get, like infectious stage chicken
> pox, the flu, bronchitis, whatever - but a runny nose?
>
long as it was not accompanied by a fever or other symptoms indicating
something much more serious than a cold. Vomiting, conjuntivitis, etc.
are a totally different category, in my book.
Kristi
Elizabeth Reid
> Elizabeth Reid wrote:
>
> > bu...@cutey.com (Sarah) wrote:
>
> >>Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
> >>playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
> >>times her kid had a really runny nose.<snip>
>
> > Well, my son is a day-care baby, and they do not ask us to keep
> > him home when he has a cold. <snip>
>
> > I understand that playgroup is a different situation, because it's
> > optional and not every day, so maybe a different standard should
> > apply.<snip>
>
> I operate a child care, and the rule of thumb is that other than
> a common cold, the child may not attend. In my policy book, a
> child is considered ill if they have a fever of over 100
> degrees, there is *colored* nasal discharge, vomiting, diarrhea,
> or any other contagious illness (conjuctivitis, ear infection, etc.).
> I also expect the child to remain at home for at least 24 hours after
> starting meds (ear infection, conjunctivitis), and after a bout of
> vomiting, diarrhea, etc.
The day-care center my child attends has exactly this set of
policies, excepting the colored nasal discharge clause and the
ear infection clause. From what I've read (Dr. Sears) colored
nasal discharge can just be the result of a cold, and ear infections
are not directly infectious, they're the result of a previous
cold. I think the guidelines are completely reasonable. Even
if a child's not always infectious with anything serious with
a fever of 101, he probably feels lousy and deserves to be at
home.
> I feel that it is unrealistic to exclude
> a child from activities or child care due to a cold, as some kids
> may never get to attend!
Yeah, if you do the math... the rule of thumb appears to be that
infants in day care can easily get 8 colds a year. If a runny
nose can last a week with each cold (which is pretty conservative)
if kids weren't allowed to go to day care with a runny nose a
child could easily miss two months of day care a year! With
my child, it would be more like four or five. :-)
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
P. Tierney
> P. Tierney wrote:
>
> > But I'd also be miffed if a negligant parent got my kid sick, twice,
> > because she either didn't know about common poor-health signs, or
> > didn't care to protect the other kids from her sick child. So, the
> > "miffs" negate each other (though I think that the first one committed
> > is more serious).
>
> I have never felt a cold to be synonymous with sick :) I operate
> a business that I have closed (4) times in 15 years. Each time I
> closed I was *sick*. If I closed every time my nose was runny, all
> of my clients would be gone. If my girls missed school every time
> they had a cold, the truant officer would be my new best friend.
Well, I agree. I posted under the assumption that the child
was "sick" based upon the information present. I'm not
knowledgeable enough to say that the child likely was,
based upon what was posted, and will leave it to others
to make that determination. From rereading it, I simply
can't say for certain.
P. Tierney
P. Tierney
"Kavvy" <sefa...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message news:3e89b892_2@newsfeed...
> P. Tierney wrote:
> > But I'd also be miffed if a negligant parent got my kid sick,
> > twice, because she either didn't know about common poor-health signs,
> > or didn't care to protect the other kids from her sick child. So, the
> > "miffs" negate each other (though I think that the first one committed
> > is more serious).
>
> Well two wrongs don't make a right ;-)
No, but it makes the second "wrong" a little easier to stomach. ;-)
> I just can't get to worked up about colds. It seems one of my kids always
> has a cold.
I think the OP's was sick for two weeks, unpleasently so.
Mine is difficult even when mildly sick, so I try to avoid such
situations whenever possible, and do the same for others when
she is sick. She's not in a daycare, btw.
> So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a runny
> nose?
No. If that runny nose is a sign of something larger, then
I try to stick to open-air environments. The zoo or park
instead of the science center, for example.
P. Tierney
Rosalie B.
I was home 'sick' a great deal of the time in 1st grade, and my mom
noticed that none of the rest of the family ever 'caught' whatever I
had. It turned out it was allergies - dust, tree pollen, grass
pollen, animal dander, feathers -- whatever airborne allergens there
were, I was allergic to it.
So a runny nose is NOT necessarily the sign of a cold.
grandma Rosalie
Ruth Baltopoulos
> The day-care center my child attends has exactly this set of
> policies, excepting the colored nasal discharge clause and the
> ear infection clause. From what I've read (Dr. Sears) colored
> nasal discharge can just be the result of a cold, and ear infections
> are not directly infectious, they're the result of a previous
> cold. I think the guidelines are completely reasonable. Even
> if a child's not always infectious with anything serious with
> a fever of 101, he probably feels lousy and deserves to be at
> home.
My girls old pediatrician told me that ear infections can be
viral, and therefore contagious. At times I have noticed a
small epidemic of them in my group. He also told me that if
the nose is running other than clear, it is something more
serious than a run-of-the-mill cold, and children should not
attend. I shall speak with my girls new pediatrician and
see what she says. A doctor I am not :)
Ruth B
Cheryl S.
> So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a
runny
> nose?
If it's just one other mom/kid, I always just call whoever I'm getting
together with and tell them Julie's symptoms and leave it up to them. I
have on many occasions stayed home from group activities because Julie
had a cold, but, that is a much easier option for me than someone who
WOH having to keep their kid home from daycare. Usually, I had the cold
too, so I didn't feel like going anyway! OTOH, I don't necessarily keep
Julie away from kids with colds. I think challenges to the immune
system are important to helping it develop properly and get stronger,
and I'd rather see her exercise her immune system on colds than more
serious stuff.
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 years!
#2 EDD 4.Sept
Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.
H Schinske
>I'd also suggest that the group leader have a chat with a pediatrician about
>what is a concern and what isn't. True - a runny nose could be a cold, but
>it
>could also be an allergy.
And if you kept your kid home for *every* day of runny nose, some kids would
never see the light. A gunky nose all by itself (okay, attached firmly to a
happily playing child <g>) doesn't bother me that much. An obviously ill child,
yes, but there is certainly a gray area.
--Helen
Cheryl S.
> playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
> really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
> was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
> Lady has been angry with me
> and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
> been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
> responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
> about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
> courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
> me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
While I understand your concern about your DS being around sick kids, I
think you are in error here. First, if you were going to bring it up at
all, a conversation in person would be preferable to emailing someone it
sounds like you hardly know, out of the blue, criticizing her. However
kindly you thought you worded it, an email comes across to the reader
very impersonally and often sounds far more harsh than it was intended.
It sounds like you do not know each other well, which would only make
this effect more of a problem.
Second, however, it was definitely *not* your responsibility to set
rules on behalf of all the other members of this playgroup, especially
since you've only been to it twice. Even if you were a founding member,
rules on attendance should be created and agreed to as a group, or at
least a majority, not by a single member. It was not your place to take
it upon yourself to tell her not to come to playgroup. The other
parents are responsible for deciding for themselves, not you. You only
get to decide how sick of a kid gets to be around *your* kid.
Finally, your DS is pretty young, and probably hasn't been sick much.
As a general word of advice, it comes with the territory and you're not
going to be able to prevent him from catching colds on a fairly regular
basis, whether attending a playgroup or not. :-)
Banty
And remember the physician may be addressing one of two issues in that
statement:
* that the child should stay home because he or she is contagious
and/or
* that the child should stay home for his or her own recovery because there is
an infection more serious than a cold.
It's not obvious from your paragraph which your doctor meant. The first one is
what a playgroup would be concerned about, the second is what a parent and child
would be concerned about. It *is* possible to have a serious, non-contagious
infection, and have energy and want to play and pretty much go nuts without some
diversion like a playgroup. On the other hand, sometimes it is necesary to cut
way back on activity even if the child wants to play, for the sake of recovery.
These are up to the parent and possibly ped to assess.
Banty
Elizabeth Reid
> There was a "lady" like this in my daughter's playgroup when she was
> very young. I kept my mouth shut because it made me so angry that I
> knew I wouldn't be able to broach the subject w/o making her mad. (I
> lack your tact!)
>
> Long story short, she had everyone over to her house for a Christmas
> brunch, and neglected to tell us till we'd finished our breakfast that
> she'd been up all night throwing up. Needless to say, 6 out of the 10
> in attendance caught her wretched bug, including me and my daughter.
<rest of story snipped>
Oh, man, that's horrible. My son came down with an unfortunate
stomach virus while I had out-of-town company recently, with many
local people expecting to come over to hang out with my visitors.
I warned every person before coming over that there was a virus
in the house, I didn't touch anything anyone else was likely to
touch, and I was the only person to touch my son for the 12 hours
or so he was barfing. It was not fun, but we got through it and
no one else got sick.
I would be *so* peeved if someone fed me while ill with a stomach
thing and never warned me. That's beyond rude.
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
dragonlady
bu...@cutey.com (Sarah) wrote:
> Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
> playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
> times her kid had a really runny nose. The first time my kid got a
> really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
> was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
> about it. Well, I went to the playgroup again just a few days ago and
> same lady was there with kid with runny nose. I asked her about it
> and she said that baby was just "teething". Then at the end of the
> playdate, she said that maybe her kid was sick 'cause baby was crying
> and fussing a lot the whole time. I called pediatrician afterwards
> who said teething or not, runny nose equals a cold. I verified this,
> and sometimes it could be allergies. I emailed lady about this, in a
> very nice way, saying maybe she'd be interested to know, maybe her kid
> has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
> it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
> equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
> following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
> infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
> and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
> been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
> responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
> about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
> courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
> me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
With three kids, if I'd had to stay home any time one of them had a mild
cold, I'd have gone stark raving mad. At some point, kids are going to
catch colds, and I never worried about keeping my kids away from people
who had colds. I generally followed pretty standard guidelines: we
didn't go out if they were running fevers, or if they were too sick to
enjoy being out. The vomiting thing was trickier for us -- my oldest
started to throw up whenever she was upset when she was about seven
(still does at 20) and my son has a problem (see below), but if I had
any indication that they had a virile or bacterial illness causing them
to toss their cookies, we stayed home. We also stayed home for chicken
pox or other obviously more severe contageous illnesses.
And speaking as a parent with a child who has lots of non-contageous
problems, I can understand the defensiveness. DS was not diagnosed
properly until he was pretty old; however, he has gastro-esophogal
reflux, which makes his stomach hurt and results in him throwing up
periodically -- diagnosed when he was 4, because I couldn't get my
doctor to take it seriously. (At 17, he still has bad days, but the
medication mostly keeps it under control.) He has LOTS of allergies, so
he's stuffy all the time. And he has exercise-induced asthma, pretty
mild, but not diagnosed until he was in his teens. (In the for what
it's worth category, he also has exima (sp?), and I'm told the four
conditions often travel together.)
The bottom line is that while I didn't know all of the things that were
wrong with him, I *did* know that he wasn't contageous. And on more
than one occassion, I had other parents (strangers or near strangers)
berate me for having such an obviously sick child out in public and
exposing their child to his germs. He didn't feel good, but he would
have felt no better at home, and often his symptoms would come on fairly
quickly; plus, keeping him home would have meant keeping his sisters
and me home, too.
Damn. I'm STILL feeling defensive about this! I know the people who
chewed me out thought they were "taking care of" their own kids, but all
they were really doing was adding stress to an already stressful
situation!
meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Banty
eliz...@yahoo.com says...
I wouldn't serve anyone food if I had a stomach bug (and tried to throw away
some food I was going to bring to a party once for that reason, but a friend
interscepted and said "don't be silly" and brought the tray over herself - go
figure), but anyway, maybe you can help me understand my neighbor's viewpoint.
Aside from your misfortune of having guests over at the time, to me a stomach
bug is an always self-limiting, if unpleasant, 24 - 36 hour affair. A *cold*,
on the other hand, for an ex-asthmatic like me, was for some time a likely start
of a secondary, debilitating reaction, and in my *son*, can be the start of a
secondary sinus infection that's got him down and me tied up for a lot longer
than a 24 - 36 hour stomach bug!
So what's the big deal about stomach bugs whilst colds are no big deal?
Banty
Tracy Cramer
>I operate a child care, and the rule of thumb is that other than
>a common cold, the child may not attend. In my policy book, a
>child is considered ill if they have a fever of over 100
>degrees, there is *colored* nasal discharge, vomiting, diarrhea,
>or any other contagious illness (conjuctivitis, ear infection, etc.).
>I also expect the child to remain at home for at least 24 hours after
>starting meds (ear infection, conjunctivitis), and after a bout of
>vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I feel that it is unrealistic to exclude
>a child from activities or child care due to a cold, as some kids
>may never get to attend! With a playgroup, it is definitely a
>different story. But, your child will be exposed and develop
>immunities at some point, right? I see children that do not have
>much interaction with groups at a younger age spending a considerable
>amount of time missing school when they begin kindergarten or preschool.
I use the same rules when deciding whether to send my kids somewhere. I think
it's fair to try to keep other people from getting sick -- it's the same reason
I cancel any appointments I might have on days that I'm sick. It's just common
courtesy.
That said, I don't keep my kids in a bubble. They're exposed to all kinds of
stuff at school, and have had all sorts of illnesses. Kids get sick, fact of
life, that's why I have the doc's number handy. Personally, I wouldn't get upset
about a kid with a cold being around my kids, 'cause if it's not that kid, it's
another kid and if they're going to get it, they're going to get it (and they
were probably exposed before the symptoms showed).
Tracy
======================================
We child proofed our home 3 years ago
and they're still getting in!
======================================
Celeste Bannon Waterman
"dragonlady" <meh...@REMOVEpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:mehouck-7ED742...@newssvr13-ext.news.prodigy.com...
Hi, can I commiserate with you? My older son has an extremely sensitive gag
reflex. He vomits when he gets upset or cries, when he coughs hard, when
something goes down his throat slightly wrong, when he puts too much food in
his mouth.... and so on. It took quite a while at his daycare before they
got the hang of it and stopped calling us to come get our 'sick' child on a
regular basis. They now know his pattern and can tell the difference
between his normal behaviour and when he really is sick.
And my younger son has an asthma-like condition. Essentially, he gets
asthma symptoms every time he gets a cold. Generally for about two weeks
afterward he has terrible, deep, congestive-sounding cough. At the point
it's most noticeable to other people the cold is long gone.
So yes, I too am pretty defensive about people giving me the rant about my
'sick kids'. I generally try to be patient and educate, but I'm getting
pretty tired of other parents making the assumptions that I'm uncaring and
apparently deliberately trying to infect their little darlings....
And to get back to the original poster, even with my second child who reacts
so badly to colds, I think you were overreacting. I certainly don't expect
every child with a runny nose to be isolated at home. Kids will get colds,
and as other people have pointed out they are likely to be most infectious
just at the start of the cold, when you really can't tell. Wash hands, eat
well, get your sleep and deal with the inevitable small illnesses that get
through your defenses.
Cheers,
Celeste
Rosalie B.
An experienced mother (which obviously one is not with one's first
child unless one is in some kind of child care profession) can tell
whether a child is really ill - it's a kind of look they have.
My mom has pastel portraits done of all her grandchildren all at about
the same age - most of them are 3 yo. The time came to do dd#3, and
she was running a little fever. My mom had the portrait done anyway,
and you can tell if you look at it - she's perfectly beautiful (I'm
not prejudiced at all of course) and she's not unhappy looking, but I
can tell when I look at it that it was done when she was sick.
I will often say to my children - don't you think your child is
(hungry, sleepy, sick) and they look at me as if I'm mad, but often
the child's behavior improved if they are fed, or they go right down
to sleep if they are allowed to. And I'm not with them that much -
but they have that look.
OTOH, a runny nose isn't one of the symptoms that I think is
important. It's more an expression around the eyes.
grandma Rosalie
Kavvy
> Kavvy <sefa...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
> news:3e89b892_2@newsfeed...
>> So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a
>> runny nose?
>
> If it's just one other mom/kid, I always just call whoever I'm getting
> together with and tell them Julie's symptoms and leave it up to them.
That is a good plan.
> I have on many occasions stayed home from group activities because
> Julie had a cold, but, that is a much easier option for me than
> someone who WOH having to keep their kid home from daycare.
Actually I wasn't even talking about daycare. They have pretty strict
policies and so there isn't much to think about, Lol.
I just got the impression that some people felt as if it was wrong to take
kids with colds out around other people. I can't imagine living by that
rule and wondered if others did.
I
> don't necessarily keep Julie away from kids with colds. I think
> challenges to the immune system are important to helping it develop
> properly and get stronger, and I'd rather see her exercise her immune
> system on colds than more serious stuff.
Well they say it is now or later so it all evens out. I'm glad I won't have
a preschooler or kindergartener that is constantly cold ridden but it would
be nice if they could have a cold free first 18 months or so :-)
Rosalie B.
Probably because for the care-giver the stomach bug is so much more
awful.
My mom once sent me to school with measles (the real ones) because my
childless great aunt was visiting and she didn't want to delay her
departure by great aunt thinking I was sick. She told my great aunt
it was a strawberry rash. This was about 2 weeks before hs
graduation, and my friends were really upset that they might get the
measles and miss it. This was the 2nd time I had the measles (I also
had German measles).
grandma Rosalie
Heather W.
<sefa...@dtgnet.com> :
>Well they say it is now or later so it all evens out. I'm glad I won't have
>a preschooler or kindergartener that is constantly cold ridden but it would
>be nice if they could have a cold free first 18 months or so :-)
Oh, don't count on that! I thought for sure Rowan's first (and esp.
second) year of preschool, we'd have everything out of the way before
kindergarten. It's probably better than if she'd lived in a bubble
until now, but not much!
(Just this week, she's home because she has - of all things! - Scarlet
Fever! I'd love to throttle whoever gave that one to her, but then
she was generally asymptomatic before the rash other than... a runny
nose! ;-))
Heather W
Policy Board for proposed misc.kids.family-life
3rd RFD appearing now in a news.groups near you!
-
To email me (and be read) use: heather @ operamail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Much madness is divinest sense | Mom to Rowan Justina (11/6/97)
To a discerning eye -Dickinson | Woman of many talents to myself.
Kavvy
>
>> Well they say it is now or later so it all evens out. >
Heather W. wrote
> Oh, don't count on that! I
Arg....well way to burst my bubble, Lol.
Banty
>
>>So what's the big deal about stomach bugs whilst colds are no big deal?
>
>Probably because for the care-giver the stomach bug is so much more
>awful.
So it's vomit-squick? I find an infection secondary to a cold to be much more
potentially disruptive.
>
>My mom once sent me to school with measles (the real ones) because my
>childless great aunt was visiting and she didn't want to delay her
>departure by great aunt thinking I was sick. She told my great aunt
>it was a strawberry rash. This was about 2 weeks before hs
>graduation, and my friends were really upset that they might get the
>measles and miss it. This was the 2nd time I had the measles (I also
>had German measles).
Well, sure. But what does it have to do with stomach bugs?
Banty
Mary Gordon
contagious, and spreads like wildfire - and when they were smaller and
it was going around the school, before I suspected a kid had pink eye,
wham, I already had caught it. Very annoying.
Any kind of evil gastro-intestinal thing should be kept home as well.
Mary G.
Jeff Utz
> playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
> times her kid had a really runny nose. The first time my kid got a
> really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
> was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
> about it. Well, I went to the playgroup again just a few days ago and
> same lady was there with kid with runny nose. I asked her about it
> and she said that baby was just "teething". Then at the end of the
> playdate, she said that maybe her kid was sick 'cause baby was crying
> and fussing a lot the whole time. I called pediatrician afterwards
> who said teething or not, runny nose equals a cold. I verified this,
> and sometimes it could be allergies. I emailed lady about this, in a
> very nice way, saying maybe she'd be interested to know, maybe her kid
> has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
> it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
> equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
> following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
> infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
> and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
> been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
> responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
> about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
> courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
> me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
I disagree. Kids who have runny noses might just have allergies. Kids get
runny noses from just playing in the cold. You have no responsibility or
right to set rules on behalf of other families. If they don't want their kid
to play with a kid with a runny nose, they can take their kids home or not
let their kid play with the sick kid. So can you.
BTW, studies show that kids who go to day care and get colds a lot are less
likely to get asthma.
Jeff
Rosalie B.
>In article <lr3k8vki6ujr5gdv2...@4ax.com>, Rosalie says...
>>
>
>>>So what's the big deal about stomach bugs whilst colds are no big deal?
>>
>>Probably because for the care-giver the stomach bug is so much more
>>awful.
>
>So it's vomit-squick? I find an infection secondary to a cold to be much more
>potentially disruptive.
>
Yep you got it. It's the immediate rather than the future. The vomit
is here right now, and the potential disruption can be ignored because
it is in the future.
>>
>>My mom once sent me to school with measles (the real ones) because my
>>childless great aunt was visiting and she didn't want to delay her
>>departure by great aunt thinking I was sick. She told my great aunt
>>it was a strawberry rash. This was about 2 weeks before hs
>>graduation, and my friends were really upset that they might get the
>>measles and miss it. This was the 2nd time I had the measles (I also
>>had German measles).
>
>Well, sure. But what does it have to do with stomach bugs?
>
Nothing - I was just hijacking your post and going back to the OP as
to keeping kids home if they were sick.
grandma Rosalie
Banty
>
>Banty <Banty_...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <lr3k8vki6ujr5gdv2...@4ax.com>, Rosalie says...
>>>
>>
>>>>So what's the big deal about stomach bugs whilst colds are no big deal?
>>>
>>>Probably because for the care-giver the stomach bug is so much more
>>>awful.
>>
>>So it's vomit-squick? I find an infection secondary to a cold to be much more
>>potentially disruptive.
>>
>Yep you got it. It's the immediate rather than the future. The vomit
>is here right now, and the potential disruption can be ignored because
>it is in the future.
OK - well to me vomit-squick is no big deal. When my son was little, a stomach
bug didnt' even slow him down much. I had to watch him and follow him around
the house with towels becaue he wouldnt' stay in bed - too much energy. I
called him "instamatic barfomatic".
>>>
>>>My mom once sent me to school with measles (the real ones) because my
>>>childless great aunt was visiting and she didn't want to delay her
>>>departure by great aunt thinking I was sick. She told my great aunt
>>>it was a strawberry rash. This was about 2 weeks before hs
>>>graduation, and my friends were really upset that they might get the
>>>measles and miss it. This was the 2nd time I had the measles (I also
>>>had German measles).
>>
>>Well, sure. But what does it have to do with stomach bugs?
>>
>Nothing - I was just hijacking your post and going back to the OP as
>to keeping kids home if they were sick.
Hijacking, huh?
Say - *we* remember when airplanes were hijacked *to* Cuba, don't we ;-)
Banty
P. Tierney
"Rosalie B." <gmbe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >> So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a
runny
> >> nose?
> >
> > No. If that runny nose is a sign of something larger, then
> >I try to stick to open-air environments. The zoo or park
> >instead of the science center, for example.
>
> I was home 'sick' a great deal of the time in 1st grade, and my mom
> noticed that none of the rest of the family ever 'caught' whatever I
> had. It turned out it was allergies - dust, tree pollen, grass
> pollen, animal dander, feathers -- whatever airborne allergens there
> were, I was allergic to it.
>
> So a runny nose is NOT necessarily the sign of a cold.
No, I didn't say that it was.
P. Tierney
Jeff Utz
"Banty" <Banty_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:b6d3r...@drn.newsguy.com...
People with measles can also get vomiting. I did.
> Banty
>
Sarah
Thank you all for your input. Well, I talked this over with my
husband and we sorted out what is best for us. I believe I did the
right thing, just a personal choice based on what I feel to be my
responsibility as a parent. BTW, this is a really casual group, no
moderator or leader, so that's why I chose to take it up myself with
the mom, and privately instead of making a big deal out of it in front
of the other moms. Based upon some of your great advice, I will
recommend a discussion and agreement on basic rules regarding sick
kids, and will just quietly leave in the future if this happens again.
And hey, I understand some colds can be pretty mild in the gamut of
things, but the last time this child passed on her cold, my kid got
really pretty badly sick, so in context, it was an issue to be
addressed, IMO. Thanks for all of your opinions, I respect them all,
and appreciate the way many of you were polite in addressing me,
despite the differences. Take care, Sarah
Rosalie B.
I was partly responding to Nikki's question - do you stay home when
your child has a runny nose (which I deleted before I could respond
it), and also to the OP who said that a runny nose was a sign of a
cold.
Also indicating somewhat indirectly that your strategy of staying
outdoors might not work if it was an allergy.
I also had exercise induced asthma, which was much worse in cold
weather - another reason not to be running around outside.
grandma Rosalie
P. Tierney
"Rosalie B." <gmbe...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > No, I didn't say that it was.
>
> I was partly responding to Nikki's question - do you stay home when
> your child has a runny nose (which I deleted before I could respond
> it), and also to the OP who said that a runny nose was a sign of a
> cold.
It is, but I didn't intend to negate other things that it could
be a sign of.
> Also indicating somewhat indirectly that your strategy of staying
> outdoors might not work if it was an allergy.
It wouldn't work for mine, but allergies or asthma wouldn't
prevent others from getting sick, at least. That's the primary
reason that I wouldn't take my seemingly sick child to a closed
environment.
Were the child mine, and being outside made things worse for
her, then I would take that as an allergies/asthma sign and get that
checked out.
P. Tierney
Elizabeth Reid
Well, I think there are two differences; how unpleasant they are
for most people and how likely one is to be able to limit contagion.
I'm an asthmatic myself, and I don't generally have too much of a
problem with colds. They definitely last longer than stomach bugs,
but for me, they're MUCH less unpleasant. Obviously, if I had a
friend in your shoes and I knew that for her and her family colds
were a big issue, I would be just as careful about informing her
about colds as I would be about stomach viruses. (Perhaps I'm
projecting my own family issues here; my husband is the sort who
has to be taken to the hospital for an IV and painkillers when
he gets stomach bugs, so protecting him is really my biggest
priority. Me, I just hate to barf.)
The other difference is that, AFAIK, stomach bugs are only
transmissable during symptoms. If people with symptoms avoid
touching things that others touch during the brief period they're
sick, they won't make others sick. It's a short period, so it's
pretty easy to stay home and keep your bug to yourself. Colds
last a lot longer (as you point out), people are contagious
before they're symptomatic, and they're potentially spread by
droplet, so I usally figure that if something's going around and
I'm susceptible I'll get it sooner or later. That being the
case, I don't really take it personally if I get it from a
specific individual.
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
Elizabeth Reid
> My girls old pediatrician told me that ear infections can be
> viral, and therefore contagious. At times I have noticed a
> small epidemic of them in my group. He also told me that if
> the nose is running other than clear, it is something more
> serious than a run-of-the-mill cold, and children should not
> attend. I shall speak with my girls new pediatrician and
> see what she says. A doctor I am not :)
Nor I, nor a day-care provider. So I'm certainly not an
authority. I just slavishly follow whatever Dr. Sears says,
about health-related matters at least.
The two relevant quotes from his Web site are:
"The common cold virus can cause green nasal secretions
and a junky sounding cough. Decades ago it was commonly felt
that a green nose, productive cough or a rattling chest
meant there was a bacterial infection. This belief led to
a severe over-use of antibiotics, which in turn has allowed
the bacteria that cause ear infections, sinus infections
and pneumonia to become tougher and more resistant to antibiotics.
Now we know that green or junky does not necessarily mean
a bacterial infection. Viruses can also cause this."
"ARE EAR INFECTIONS CONTAGIOUS?
No, the bacteria inside the ear causing the infection are
not contagious. The cold virus that can lead to an ear
infection is contagious. Oftentimes, if the ear infection
occurs a week after the cold begins, the child is no
longer contagious."
I searched on 'viral ear infections contagious' on Google,
and came up with this from a Dr. Steele on iVillage:
"Clearly up to one third of ear infections may be caused by
viruses. This means up to one third of ear infections require
no antibiotics at all. However, because we can't easily test
this, physicians assume the ear infection is from a bacteria
and prescribe an antibiotic. Ear infections are not
contagious because the fluid that is infected is well isolated
behind the ear drum."
So my exhaustive two minutes of research seems to indicate that
the general feeling is that ear infections aren't contagious.
Anyway, I think there's more than one issue here. Kids should
stay home if they're contagious to the other kids, but also if
they're just too sick for it to be reasonable to ask a day-care
provider to care for them. My son hasn't had an ear infection
yet (knock wood) but I gather that some kids are really miserable
with them. If that's the case, they should stay home.
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Nor I, nor a day-care provider. So I'm certainly not an
> authority. I just slavishly follow whatever Dr. Sears says,
> about health-related matters at least.
<snip excellent information>
Thanks for that! I guess that my old pediatrician may have
been a little outdated with his information....... I shall
have to update the old policy book :)
I did recently have to call a parent (who was very reluctant
to pick up his child) because his daughter had a
horrendously gunky colored nose and was clearly not up to
the daily program, but whose fever was just under 100
degrees. He was annoyed, and stated that he did not feel he
should have to pick the girl up, as her fever was below 100
degrees. I explained that the child was just miserable, and
was crying and wanted to be held or lie down (2 1/2 yr.
old), and had no interest in being involved in the
activities (totally out of character). It was a tad
unpleasant, but he came and got her. I suppose I should not
have been surprised, as this child has come to child care
medicated on more than one occasion without my being
notified (policy stipulates that parents must advise me if
children are being medicated before attending child care).
Generally speaking, and depending on how they react to meds,
many children should remain at home whilst on medication.
This particular child is very lethargic if on cough meds,
and has caused me concern a few times with her atypical
behavior. It finally occurred to me to ask the parents if
she was given medication before attending. Yep, sure was!
I had to get a bit stern with this family, because they even
went so far as to give the girl children's tylenol to mask a
fever before bringing her in for child care! I *do*
understand the difficulties that working parents face, but
am always surprised at behavior like this (they are lovely
people).
Ruth B
kristi
Personally, I wouldn't get upset
> about a kid with a cold being around my kids, 'cause if it's not that kid, it's
> another kid and if they're going to get it, they're going to get it (and they
> were probably exposed before the symptoms showed).
>
>
>
> Tracy
>
> ======================================
> We child proofed our home 3 years ago
> and they're still getting in!
> ======================================
Or that I or my husband exposed them through adult contacts.....
Kristi
laura
It sounds quite reasonable to have a discussion on rules concerning
sick children at a playgroup. But I would highly recommend that you
keep in mind a couple of things about illnesses (particularly colds)
that get passed around: 1) colds are generally most highly contagious
before symptoms appear, so you will not avoid exposing your child to
illnesses by preventing obviously sick (with a mild cold) children
from attending. 2) You can't actually be sure that the cold your
child got badly sick on was actually caught from this other mom's
child. If you had been out anywhere in public anytime in the week
before he caught the cold, he could have easily caught it from a
passerby....my son caught the chicken pox from someone in a grocery
store (we don't know who, we never saw the person who was obviously
contagious, we just know that it was the only place outside of home
that he went in the three weeks before he got sick).
Laura
Laurie
Sarah wrote in message ...
>Hello, I need some feedback. I have a 10 mo and have gone to a
>playgroup twice with him. One lady has had her kid there and both
>times her kid had a really runny nose. The first time my kid got a
>really bad cold a few days later, and that cold lasted two weeks and
>was miserable. I emailed the lady about it and she was defensive
>about it. Well, I went to the playgroup again just a few days ago and
>same lady was there with kid with runny nose. I asked her about it
>and she said that baby was just "teething". Then at the end of the
>playdate, she said that maybe her kid was sick 'cause baby was crying
>and fussing a lot the whole time. I called pediatrician afterwards
>who said teething or not, runny nose equals a cold. I verified this,
>and sometimes it could be allergies. I emailed lady about this, in a
>very nice way, saying maybe she'd be interested to know, maybe her kid
>has allergies. But I also said that if not, she needs to know that
>it's not ok to bring a sick kid to playgroups and that a runny nose
>equals a sick kid. I informed her about the danger of ear infections
>following colds, a common occurence in little kids, and that ear
>infections--heck, even colds--are no fun. Lady has been angry with me
>and I think she feels I'm being nosy and pushy. Am I? I think I have
>been as polite and sweet as possible, but that I also have a
>responsibility, on behalf of all the families there, to set rules
>about sick kids at playgroups. This is common sense, and common
>courtesy, no? I just want some validation here, as her response has
>me puzzled. TIA, Sarah
Honestly, yeah, I think you went a little too far. It would have been
enough to say something to the effect of "I sure hope my baby doesn't catch
your baby's cold". The going on to give info about how colds can lead to
ear infections, etc, would have annoyed the hell out of me. Sorry. :)
laurie
mommy to Jessica, 2 years old!!
baby boy due April 10, 2003
dragonlady
"Celeste Bannon Waterman" <cba...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
> "dragonlady" <meh...@REMOVEpacbell.net> wrote in message
> >
Thanks for the commiseration. Since my kids are much older now, I don't
have to deal with this any more. My kids weren't in full time day care,
but I DID have the elementary school insist that I pick up a NOT SICK
child several times. It was so aggravating to try to explain that my
child really, truely wasn't sick; this was made worse by the fact that
my oldest's "normal" temperature is a little over 99, and they would
call and insist that she was running a low grade fever when she really
wasn't. (I finally convinced them to take her temperature a few times
when they did not think she was sick.)
Patience, educating other people, assuming that others' intentions are
good -- those are all very good things. But sometimes you just get
tired!
Maryilee
>has a cold. If I stayed home for runny noses we'd go out once every 6
>weeks, and I'm not exaggerating. I don't go to playgroups so I'm in the
>clear on that one :-) I do use daycare and follow their written policies
>regarding health and attendance - to a T.
>
>So a question....do you guys really stay home when your kids have a runny
>nose?
>
>Nikki
>Mama to Hunter (3) and Luke (1)
>
>
>
My dd is 2 1/2 and has only had a few colds...or maybe she just doesn't get
runny noses with them, because she honestly has only had a runny nose 2-3
times. One of those times, she was seven months old and ended up with
bronchitis, the other time was last November when she had a slight runny nose
for a few days and then developed a mild ear infection.
So, I haven't had much opportunity to give this much thought, but I'd bring her
out with a runny nose as long as she was acting normally. I also don't care if
others bring their kids around when they have runny noses. Heck, I'd never see
one nephew if we had to wait for him to not have a runny nose. <g> He's cute
as can be but his poor nose runs like a faucet.
My sister has two kids near my own and if one of our kids has a cold and we are
planning some type of outing, we always inform each other in case we want to
avoid exposure. Neither of us care about run of the mill colds, but we'd never
expose our kids to stomach viruses. Both of my boys, when they were
infants/toddlers, were hospitalized with rotovirus, so I do take that
seriously.
Maryilee
Maggie's Christmas page
http://www.angelfire.com/vi/maggie/christmaspictures.html
Info on hereditary spherocytosis
http://www.angelfire.com/vi/maggie/spherocytosis.html
Maryilee
>> chewed me out thought they were "taking care of" their own kids, but all
>> they were really doing was adding stress to an already stressful
>> situation!
>>
>> meh
>> --
>> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
>>
>
>Hi, can I commiserate with you? My older son has an extremely sensitive gag
>reflex. He vomits when he gets upset or cries, when he coughs hard, when
>something goes down his throat slightly wrong, when he puts too much food in
>his mouth.... and so on
One of my sons is like that too and still is even at 16. He doesn't
necessarily gag easily, (except on things like nasty tasting medicine or while
cleaning up after his dog. <g>) he just pukes sometimes if he eats more than
his stomach can handle. It seems to go in cylces too, where he might puke twice
in one week, then go a month or so, before doing it again. It's always within
a half hour of eating a big meal comes on suddenly and he's not sick at all.
The doctor said he had mild reflux.
toto
>.my son caught the chicken pox from someone in a grocery
>store (we don't know who, we never saw the person who was obviously
>contagious, we just know that it was the only place outside of home
>that he went in the three weeks before he got sick).
Chicken Pox is contagious 24 hours before the pox appear so the
person who he caught it from probably did not even know s/he had it.
Dorothy
--
First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not
speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I
was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was
not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no
one left to speak out for me.
~ Martin Niemoeller
Rosalie B.
>On 2 Apr 2003 10:53:03 -0800, becker...@telia.com (laura) wrote:
>
>>.my son caught the chicken pox from someone in a grocery
>>store (we don't know who, we never saw the person who was obviously
>>contagious, we just know that it was the only place outside of home
>>that he went in the three weeks before he got sick).
>
>Chicken Pox is contagious 24 hours before the pox appear so the
>person who he caught it from probably did not even know s/he had it.
That's why I thought the OP was a little naive to think that she knew
exactly where her child got the cold from.
grandma Rosalie
Barb
dragonlady <meh...@REMOVEpacbell.net> wrote:
>Thanks for the commiseration. Since my kids are much older now, I don't
>have to deal with this any more. My kids weren't in full time day care,
>but I DID have the elementary school insist that I pick up a NOT SICK
>child several times. It was so aggravating to try to explain that my
>child really, truely wasn't sick;
When my youngest daughter was in kindergarten, I got called twice to pick her
up for "lice"... after the second time, I looked at her while in the school
office, and explained she had exzema, and it gets worse in the winter. It's not
lice, it's her skin flaking off her scalp. I had told her teacher after the
first time, but it didn't sink in very well. Luckily, she was too young to
understand the whole thing, an wasn't offended by being stuck in a corner and
ignored.
--
Barb
Jennifer
> > a common cold, the child may not attend. In my policy book, a
> > child is considered ill if they have a fever of over 100
> > degrees, there is *colored* nasal discharge, vomiting, diarrhea,
> > or any other contagious illness (conjuctivitis, ear infection, etc.).
> > I also expect the child to remain at home for at least 24 hours after
> > starting meds (ear infection, conjunctivitis), and after a bout of
> > vomiting, diarrhea, etc.
Same here for my DD's daycare. Unfortunately, some of the parents
don't follow those rules. My DD caught the nasty rotovirus going
around at the end of February, coupled with her first ear infection
(the poor thing :-( ). She started showing symptons on Thursday
afternoon, and I stayed home from work with her on Friday, and she was
free and clear by Monday.
When I took her to daycare on Monday, I found out that the parents of
one of the other babies brought her to DC with a fever and vomiting,
because they couldn't take time off of work. Unfortunately, she didn't
show any problems to the caretakers until it was too late and all the
other babies were infected, since it was airborne. The caretakers were
furious with these parents, and sent the baby home covered in vomit,
since she threw up on all the outfits that were available to her at
the center. My kid was one of the first to catch it, and it did work
its way through every single baby.
So, due to the complete audacity and idiocy of one couple of parents,
at least 10 babies suffered and all of their parents were forced to
take time off from work, just so they wouldn't have to. And hey, maybe
they had a legitimate reason and couldn't find a sitter for her or
they both really needed to be at work. But, an apology to all of the
other parents would have been nice.
I know I am ranting and raving here about something I had no control
over, and probably have no right to talk about. But, it hurt me very
much to see my baby in so much pain, when this all could have been
prevented.
Now, on the topics of colds, my kid has had a runny nose since she
started DC (10 weeks ago). The ped. said there is really nothing I can
do about it. I already have the humidifer, saline, vapor baths, etc...
She does not have a cold, she just has a runny nose. But, I also
firmly believe in her being exposed to germs (that she can handle)
early to help build up her immune system. While that may not matter in
the future.... that will be decided then.
Thanks all for listening,
Jennifer
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Same here for my DD's daycare. Unfortunately, some of the parents
> don't follow those rules. My DD caught the nasty rotovirus going
> around at the end of February, coupled with her first ear infection
> (the poor thing :-( ). She started showing symptons on Thursday
> afternoon, and I stayed home from work with her on Friday, and she was
> free and clear by Monday.
I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
horrors of unsympathetic employers, the parent is now, IMO,
making their issue mine, as well as six or seven other
families. Not Good. BTW, this happens more frequently than
you might imagine.
> When I took her to daycare on Monday, I found out that the parents of
> one of the other babies brought her to DC with a fever and vomiting,
> because they couldn't take time off of work. Unfortunately, she didn't
> show any problems to the caretakers until it was too late and all the
> other babies were infected, since it was airborne. The caretakers were
> furious with these parents, and sent the baby home covered in vomit,
> since she threw up on all the outfits that were available to her at
> the center. My kid was one of the first to catch it, and it did work
> its way through every single baby.
I have become very stern about this in the past few years.
Some parents want to assign blame when there is a cold or a
bug going around, which I just don't want to listen to, as
it is very unimportant from whence it came, unless -- IMO --
a parent purposefully brought a child to care that fell
under the guidelines as being too ill to attend. I have
refused children at the door, and currently have a family
that I will ask on occasion (based on the child's behavior)
if she has been medicated before drop off. Sad but true.
> So, due to the complete audacity and idiocy of one couple of parents,
> at least 10 babies suffered and all of their parents were forced to
> take time off from work, just so they wouldn't have to. And hey, maybe
> they had a legitimate reason and couldn't find a sitter for her or
> they both really needed to be at work. But, an apology to all of the
> other parents would have been nice.
This is the situation that I try to avoid. Unfortunately,
there are parents that think you are just shooting for an
easier day when you enforce illness guidelines. I do not
believe that there is a legitimate reason for putting others
at risk for illness, regardless of the situation. It is up
to the parents to have a plan in place for situations such
as this. And an apology certainly would have been lovely :)
<snip>
Ruth B
laura
>
>
> Chicken Pox is contagious 24 hours before the pox appear so the
> person who he caught it from probably did not even know s/he had it.
Possibly (or if I am feeling in a generous mood), most probably you
are right. But I have frankly been horrified by the number of
children with active cases of chicken pox roaming out and about in
public where I live. Once, I went to pick up ds after a field trip
where the parents were invited to stay for coffee before leaving with
their children. One of the other moms plopped herself on a chair next
to me and put her son on her lap, casually asking if anyone had any
issues with chicken pox since her son had just broken out with them
(the son on her lap). Well it was too late to figure out at that
point if anyone had issues, we had all just been exposed! I went
through two pregnancies never having had the chicken pox and would
have been absolutely livid if that had happened during my pregnancy.
Luckily we had all dealt with chicken pox before this occurence so it
was a non-issue for me. The mom is a doctor, btw.
Laura
laura
>
>
> I did recently have to call a parent (who was very reluctant
> to pick up his child) because his daughter had a
> horrendously gunky colored nose and was clearly not up to
> the daily program, but whose fever was just under 100
> degrees.
That is interesting for me to hear...our daycare (and I think it is
standard across the city) has a zero tolerance policy for fever...ie
anything over normal temperature means that a child stays at home and
gets kept home until 24 hours after the fever has gone. Besides
fever, I have always considered first and foremost whether the
children were physically up to daycare and school. I have kept both
of them at home for several days after the fever had gone because they
just didn't seem to me to have enough energy to cope...but then dh and
I have very generous sick leave policies and we can swap pretty
easily, which may not be the case for other parents.
Laura
Hillary Israeli
Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
*I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
*fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
*bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
!!!
Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
*I have become very stern about this in the past few years.
*Some parents want to assign blame when there is a cold or a
*bug going around, which I just don't want to listen to, as
*it is very unimportant from whence it came, unless -- IMO --
I would agree with that.
-h.
--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net in...@hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)
Donna Metler
"Hillary Israeli" <hil...@hillary.net> wrote in message
news:slrnb8p191....@manx.misty.com...
> In <3E8C60CD...@netscape.net>,
> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> *I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
> *fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> *bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
>
> !!!
>
> Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
When a parent drops off the child at daycare with children's tylenol and
requests that it be given every 6 hours, you have a clue :).
Kavvy
> Jennifer wrote:
>
>> Same here for my DD's daycare. Unfortunately, some of the parents
>> don't follow those rules. My DD caught the nasty rotovirus going
>> around at the end of February, coupled with her first ear infection
>> (the poor thing :-( ). She started showing symptons on Thursday
>> afternoon, and I stayed home from work with her on Friday, and she
>> was free and clear by Monday.
>
> I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
> fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> bring them to child care.
Unrelated really but didn't know where to stick this. If you (general you)
live in a fairly big town you should check the hospitals. In the big town
here the hospital has what they call Wee Care. It is a sick kid drop in
daycare at the hospital staffed by nurses. Quite populare but not
advertised.
Ruth Baltopoulos
> "Hillary Israeli" <hil...@hillary.net> wrote in message
>>Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>*I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
>>*fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
>>*bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
>>Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
> When a parent drops off the child at daycare with children's tylenol and
> requests that it be given every 6 hours, you have a clue :).
And that has happened several times as well!!
Also, dosing kids with cough medicine prior to attending,
when it makes them so lethargic that they can barely
function is another of my faves :)
Ruth B
Ruth Baltopoulos
> That is interesting for me to hear...our daycare (and I think it is
> standard across the city) has a zero tolerance policy for fever...ie
> anything over normal temperature means that a child stays at home and
> gets kept home until 24 hours after the fever has gone. Besides
> fever, I have always considered first and foremost whether the
> children were physically up to daycare and school. I have kept both
> of them at home for several days after the fever had gone because they
> just didn't seem to me to have enough energy to cope...but then dh and
> I have very generous sick leave policies and we can swap pretty
> easily, which may not be the case for other parents.
It is suggested policy in most centers, and I believe by the
Office for Child Care Services (the licensing agency for the
state of MA,) that up to 100 degrees should be allowed if
the child seems otherwise OK, as some children run a bit
higher temp, and some run a bit above normal temp when
teething, etc. Many places state that 100.4 or over, and
the child must go home/cannot attend. I am not sure where
that cutoff came from...... I think having a generous sick
leave policy definitely helps. Some parents are so stressed
over work, they make poor choices re: their children.
Ruth B
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> *I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
> *fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> *bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
> Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
Very simple with toddlers (which is my main age group in
child care). They say, "Mommy gave me medicine this morning
because I was hot/didn't feel well/threw up, etc. And then
almost exactly 4 hours after they arrive, they spike a temp.
The parents usually fess up when I ask them, and explain
that their child mentioned it to me. Some parents will
actually tell me that their child awoke with a fever, and
they gave them tylenol before bringing them. Or that they
threw up during the night, but were fine in the morning.
Ruth B
Hillary Israeli
Donna Metler <nospam_...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
*
*"Hillary Israeli" <hil...@hillary.net> wrote in message
*news:slrnb8p191....@manx.misty.com...
*> In <3E8C60CD...@netscape.net>,
*> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
*>
*> *I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
*> *fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
*> *bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
*>
*> !!!
*>
*> Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
*
*When a parent drops off the child at daycare with children's tylenol and
*requests that it be given every 6 hours, you have a clue :).
OH wow. I thought you all were talking about parents medicating the kids
on the sly so you wouldn't know they were sick! I'm not sure which is
worse, actually...
Hillary Israeli
Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
*Office for Child Care Services (the licensing agency for the
*state of MA,) that up to 100 degrees should be allowed if
*the child seems otherwise OK, as some children run a bit
Considering that anything under 100.4 F isn't officially "fever" according
to most pediatricians, I should hope that would be the case!
Sharon Fitzgerald
Hillary Israeli wrote:
>
> In <rx0ja.32347$OA6....@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>,
> Donna Metler <nospam_...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> *
> *"Hillary Israeli" <hil...@hillary.net> wrote in message
> *news:slrnb8p191....@manx.misty.com...
> *> In <3E8C60CD...@netscape.net>,
> *> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
> *>
> *> *I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
> *> *fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> *> *bring them to child care. While I sincerely understand the
> *>
> *> !!!
> *>
> *> Just out of curiosity - how do you know when this has been done?
> *
> *When a parent drops off the child at daycare with children's tylenol and
> *requests that it be given every 6 hours, you have a clue :).
>
> OH wow. I thought you all were talking about parents medicating the kids
> on the sly so you wouldn't know they were sick! I'm not sure which is
> worse, actually...
What about if these dose the kid with Motrin? That lasts my girls up to
7 or 8 hours. The parent wouldn't have to reveal that at all.
sharon
Elizabeth Reid
Yegods, how does any kid ever attend that day care often enough
to make it worth it?
Okay, I'm being a little silly, but not much. My son seems
to run a fever on the first few days of every cold that he
gets. I doubt he's more contagious with a fever than without,
and he's generally a pretty easy-tempered guy so most of the
time if you don't feel him you won't know he's feverish.
Right now, I'm in the odd position of being unemployed
*with* day care (got laid off, don't want to take him out
because he's in one of the best ones in the area) so his
fevers are no big deal, but if I'd been employed for the
last few months it would have been a big problem, even with
a cutoff (at our day care it's 101).
I understand the policy, because if there's any worry that
something serious might be wrong he belongs at home with me,
contagion issues aside. But a zero-tolerance policy for
fever just seems unrealistic to me.
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
Ruth Baltopoulos
> becker...@telia.com (laura) wrote:
>>That is interesting for me to hear...our daycare (and I think it is
>>standard across the city) has a zero tolerance policy for fever...ie
>>anything over normal temperature means that a child stays at home and
>>gets kept home until 24 hours after the fever has gone. <snip>
> Yegods, how does any kid ever attend that day care often enough
> to make it worth it?
I don't know how that is even enforceable, as 'normal' temp
has a range from 98.6 to 100.4 (or something like that). Do
you mean that they don't allow children with a temp of over
100.4 or 98.6?? If the latter, that is very out of synch
with general policies in my neck of the woods....
Ruth B
dragonlady
Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@attbi.com> wrote:
It was never a day care issue for me, but my daughter was sent home from
elementary school several times because she said she didn't feel good
and her temperature was 99.something (under 100).
She started hating school in 2nd grade; strangely enough, she always
felt MUCH better after she got home.
toto
http://www.askdrwarren.com/qa971222.htm#q2
:The incubation period for chicken pox is 12 to 21 days.
:That means that you can come down with them as long
:as 21 days from the last day that ***** was contagious.
Chicken Pox is a very mild disease mostly though it is
dangerous for certain classes of people. It just is not
something that is easily avoided by avoiding people in
active outbreak either.
http://family.go.com/raisingkids/child/health/childhealth/dony79enc_chickpox/
:Chicken pox itself is usually mild, but it can become severe in
:newborns and children whose immune systems have been
:weakened by cancer, cancer treatments, AIDS, or immunosuppressive
:therapy to prevent rejection of transplanted organs. It can also cause
:severe complications, including pneumonia, in adults who escaped
:the infection during childhood. Epidemics of chicken pox occur in all
:seasons but are most common in winter and early spring.
:HOW DOES CHICKEN POX DEVELOP?
:Chickenpox is caused by the varicella zoster virus, which spreads
:from one person to another through droplets carried by air. An infected
:child can transmit the virus for several days, starting about 24 hours
:before the rash appears and ending as soon as all the bumps have
:crusted over. The disease can also be passed from mother to fetus
:during pregnancy.
:WHEN SHOULD I SUSPECT THAT MY CHILD HAS CHICKEN POX?
:Chances are you will know that your child has been exposed to chicken
:pox before he develops any symptoms. Most schools and day-care
:centers send home notices informing parents as soon as one or more
:children come down with the illness. Unfortunately, since the period of
:contagion usually begins before symptoms appear, there is really no
:way to avoid exposure during a community outbreak.
:
:About two weeks after exposure to the chicken pox virus, the child may
:become cranky and develop a mild fever. Within a day or two, crops of
:tiny, red bumps will appear on the face, scalp, trunk, arms and legs. The
:rash may cover the whole body or only a small area. Chicken pox lesions
:often develop on the mucous membranes of the mouth, anus, vagina and
:urethra, which can cause greater discomfort.
Dorothy
--
--
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits
toypup
"dragonlady" <meh...@REMOVEpacbell.net> wrote in message
> In article <3E8CCDD...@attbi.com>,
> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@attbi.com> wrote:
> > I don't know how that is even enforceable, as 'normal' temp
> > has a range from 98.6 to 100.4 (or something like that). Do
> > you mean that they don't allow children with a temp of over
> > 100.4 or 98.6?? If the latter, that is very out of synch
> > with general policies in my neck of the woods....
>
>
> It was never a day care issue for me, but my daughter was sent home from
> elementary school several times because she said she didn't feel good
> and her temperature was 99.something (under 100).
In her case, I don't think they sent her home for a fever so much as the
fact that she said she didn't feel well.
dragonlady
"toypup" <toy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
They used the "low grade temperature" to overcall my desire to have her
stay at school when I knew she wasn't really sick.
She didn't want to be at school, and she knew if she claimed to not feel
good, the school would make me come and get her, since her temp ran high.
Now, in retrospect, I wish I had chosen some option other than making
her go to school; however, at the time, keeping her in school felt like
the right choice, and the school's insistance that I keep bring her home
felt pretty much like it undermined that decision.
Jennifer
> fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> bring them to child care.
Since my DD goes to a babies-only DC (18 months and younger) I truly
hope that they are not doing that. My DD is only 19 weeks, and I
*hate* to give her medicine. I just don't feel it is natural to be
putting so many bad chemicals into her little body.
In all honesty, I am amazed that you say this. Are there truly parents
out there that care so little for the welfare of their child that they
will give them a possibly harmful amount of a foreign drug, just so
they don't miss a day of work? In my situation, I had just started the
job I was at. Imagine calling your new employer after being there for
3 weeks and telling them you can't make it in because you don't have a
babysitter. Thankfully, they understood.
Just venting a little
Jennifer
Ruth Baltopoulos
>>I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
>>fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
>>bring them to child care.
> In all honesty, I am amazed that you say this. Are there truly parents
> out there that care so little for the welfare of their child that they
> will give them a possibly harmful amount of a foreign drug, just so
> they don't miss a day of work?
It is unfortunately true. I have been in the business for
many years, and facilitate/sit on the board of several child
care related organizations, and it is not uncommon. There
are a fair number of parents that do not have a back up plan
in case of illness (other than staying home with the child),
and have either high profile jobs, bosses that are
unsympathetic to child care issues/illness, or are highly
motivated in their work.
As I have said before, I am very sympathetic to these
situations, and am extremely flexible in my program, but am
not willing to allow parents to make their problems mine, or
to put a half-dozen other families at risk for illness
*needlessly*. The children will have plenty of exposure to
all kinds of nasty kiddy maladies, but it is really lousy
when it is done intentionally.
Ruth B
laura
>
>
> Chicken Pox is a very mild disease mostly though it is
> dangerous for certain classes of people. It just is not
> something that is easily avoided by avoiding people in
> active outbreak either.
>
Well, yes, I do get that and I never expected to avoid it or have my
kids avoid it forever....from personal experience (I did finally catch
it as an adult from the kids) I rather hoped they would get it sooner
than later. I don't particularly blame the person who passed the
chicken pox on to us. My original point was actually that the OP
can't ever be sure from whom her child caught the cold as it could
just as easily have been a passerby or someone in a store who infected
her child.
Nevertheless, as much as I get that it is unavoidable to infect people
with chicken pox before symptoms appear, I really cannot fathom
bringing a child in the early (breakout) stages of chicken pox into a
small room with an entire class of children, many of their parents and
younger siblings and then sitting down for an hour to have coffee.
Obviously, she needed to pick her child...but this was a home on a
very quiet street with plenty of driveway parking. She could have
just left her sick child in the car at the door of the house and asked
the teacher to get her dd ready to go, thereby avoiding a guaranteed
exposure to chicken pox of 20 odd children and their families.
JMHO,
Laura
laura
> In <3E8C9C44...@netscape.net>,
> Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> *Office for Child Care Services (the licensing agency for the
> *state of MA,) that up to 100 degrees should be allowed if
> *the child seems otherwise OK, as some children run a bit
>
> Considering that anything under 100.4 F isn't officially "fever" according
> to most pediatricians, I should hope that would be the case!
Ah, hmmmm...hadn't really thought about that as my kids (like me) tend
to run very low temps normally...anything over 99 and they feel and
act like crap, so it is pretty easy for us to determine what
constitutes fever. I am now curious and will ask again, but I suspect
from previous conversations with daycare providers that a parent had
better be prepared to prove that the child runs a higher temp
normally. But then again this policy may be in place because it *is*
so easy for parents to take time off for sick kids. I think we each
(dh and I) get up to two weeks sick leave for kids per month that is
paid at 80% of our salary (that is in addition to personal sick leave,
which is also 2 weeks per month). Usually we swap off during the day
so that we have both been at work, if for less hours. Pretty much
everyone in my dept handles sick kids in the same way (parents swap
and each work half days).
Laura
Hillary Israeli
laura <becker...@telia.com> wrote:
*Ah, hmmmm...hadn't really thought about that as my kids (like me) tend
*to run very low temps normally...anything over 99 and they feel and
So do I - I'm usually around 97.2 - 97.6, for whatever that's worth :)
*constitutes fever. I am now curious and will ask again, but I suspect
*from previous conversations with daycare providers that a parent had
*better be prepared to prove that the child runs a higher temp
*normally. But then again this policy may be in place because it *is*
How the hell would someone prove that? Who goes around temping their kid
when the kid is not sick? If someone told me that, I'd give them my
pediatrician's phone number and say that the person could feel free to
contact her office staff, who would (I'm certain) waste no time at all
telling the person that anything under 100.4 does not constitute a fever.
That, or I'd bring in the doctor's "Fever Guidelines" handout, which says
"fever can be defined as a rectal temperature greater than 100.4 F (38.0
C)" right in the first paragraph!!
:)
Elizabeth Reid
> Jennifer wrote:
>
> >>I am truly most offended when parents dose the child with
> >>fever reducing meds to get the temp down so that they can
> >>bring them to child care.
>
> > In all honesty, I am amazed that you say this. Are there truly parents
> > out there that care so little for the welfare of their child that they
> > will give them a possibly harmful amount of a foreign drug, just so
> > they don't miss a day of work?
>
> It is unfortunately true. I have been in the business for
> many years, and facilitate/sit on the board of several child
> care related organizations, and it is not uncommon. There
> are a fair number of parents that do not have a back up plan
> in case of illness (other than staying home with the child),
> and have either high profile jobs, bosses that are
> unsympathetic to child care issues/illness, or are highly
> motivated in their work.
Generally, what other kinds of backup plans are there? I'm
just asking because we don't have one; we have no family in
the immediate area and no friends who I'd care to inflict
a sick child on.
In the case of a longer-term illnesss, we could probably
get someone to come in and help us (if a kid had to be out
for a few weeks for some reason) but generally it's just
us. Are there options I'm missing?
Beth
Sam 8/16/2002
toto
>Nevertheless, as much as I get that it is unavoidable to infect people
>with chicken pox before symptoms appear, I really cannot fathom
>bringing a child in the early (breakout) stages of chicken pox into a
>small room with an entire class of children, many of their parents and
>younger siblings and then sitting down for an hour to have coffee.
I agree with this. I don't think that she should have stayed to chat
and have coffee, that is for sure.
>Obviously, she needed to pick her child...but this was a home on a
>very quiet street with plenty of driveway parking. She could have
>just left her sick child in the car at the door of the house and asked
>the teacher to get her dd ready to go, thereby avoiding a guaranteed
>exposure to chicken pox of 20 odd children and their families.
>
Well, most daycares, no matter how quiet the street don't encourage
leaving a child in the car. Depending on the child and how
adventurous s/he is, the problems with that are just not something
you want to take a chance on.
Another creative solution might have been to have another
mom watch the child in the car or have another mom go tell the
teacher to get her child ready and walk her out to the car perhaps.
This only works if that other mother is allowed to sign out your
child, however.
>JMHO,
>
>Laura
Dorothy
dragonlady
hil...@hillary.net (Hillary Israeli) wrote:
> In <8c43638d.0304...@posting.google.com>,
> laura <becker...@telia.com> wrote:
>
> *Ah, hmmmm...hadn't really thought about that as my kids (like me) tend
> *to run very low temps normally...anything over 99 and they feel and
>
> So do I - I'm usually around 97.2 - 97.6, for whatever that's worth :)
>
> *constitutes fever. I am now curious and will ask again, but I suspect
> *from previous conversations with daycare providers that a parent had
> *better be prepared to prove that the child runs a higher temp
> *normally. But then again this policy may be in place because it *is*
>
> How the hell would someone prove that? Who goes around temping their kid
> when the kid is not sick? If someone told me that, I'd give them my
> pediatrician's phone number and say that the person could feel free to
> contact her office staff, who would (I'm certain) waste no time at all
> telling the person that anything under 100.4 does not constitute a fever.
> That, or I'd bring in the doctor's "Fever Guidelines" handout, which says
> "fever can be defined as a rectal temperature greater than 100.4 F (38.0
> C)" right in the first paragraph!!
>
> :)
I did BECAUSE my daughter was running at close to 99 when I didn't think
she was sick. After that experience, and fighting with the school about
it, I've suggested to several people that they check their kids' temps
when they know they are fine, just to see.
Ruth Baltopoulos
> Generally, what other kinds of backup plans are there? I'm
> just asking because we don't have one; we have no family in
> the immediate area and no friends who I'd care to inflict
> a sick child on. <snip>
Generally one has some type of family member or close friend
that they can use in a pinch, and there is sick care
available in some places. There may be caregivers or
'baby-sitters' available that come in on short notice and it
is good to have several numbers at hand. I know how
difficult it can be if you have no family around (my
*entire* family is in a different state), and in this case
you need to be really creative. The point I am making is
that whatever you need to do -- including stay home with
your child if that is the only option -- is better than
dosing a sick child and sending them off to group care where
they will potentially infect a whole group of children, not
to mention that they will generally be miserable.
Ruth B
dragonlady
Ruth Baltopoulos <rud...@netscape.net> wrote:
We moved to New England in Sept, and I gave birth in Dec. I had planned
to find a job around March, but when the baby turned out to be two
babies, well, child care for two infants and a three year old is
prohibitively expensive. However, I had a real hard time lining up any
sort of assistance. I have absolutely no idea what I would have done
for back up child care if I had gotten a full time job.
Nancy P.
"Elizabeth Reid" <eliz...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3338aa8.03040...@posting.google.com...
>> Generally, what other kinds of backup plans are there? I'm
> just asking because we don't have one; we have no family in
> the immediate area and no friends who I'd care to inflict
> a sick child on.
>
> >
> Sam 8/16/2002
In our area there is a sick-child daycare, and supposedly my company has
some sort of affiliation with them, so I'd get some reimbursement or
something if I used them. In reality, though, I can't imagine dropping my
dd off with complete strangers on top of her not feeling well. My MIL, who
is my backup, has just gotten a job, though, so it may happen. Times when
my MIL hasn't been available, well, I've missed a lot of work over the
winter, and DH and I did some half days where one would get home and the
other would go to work.
Nancy
laura
>
> How the hell would someone prove that? Who goes around temping their kid
> when the kid is not sick? If someone told me that, I'd give them my
> pediatrician's phone number and say that the person could feel free to
> contact her office staff, who would (I'm certain) waste no time at all
> telling the person that anything under 100.4 does not constitute a fever.
> That, or I'd bring in the doctor's "Fever Guidelines" handout, which says
> "fever can be defined as a rectal temperature greater than 100.4 F (38.0
> C)" right in the first paragraph!!
I still remember the time the daycare (who are otherwise lovely lovely
people and to whom my dd joyful goes to every day) called me out of
work two days in a row because they were convinced she had an ear
infection and insisted I pick her up and take her to the doctor.
Considering that she had no fever, no previous viral infection, slept
well at night and wasn't in the least cranky at home I was pretty sure
she didn't have one, but they weren't convinced. She has never has
had an ear infection except once in conjuction with chicken pox, but
she had a bit of a tick at that time of pulling on her ears when she
was unhappy. It did take me getting her checked out by a doctor to
convince them that it wasn't an ear infection before they would take
her back...by which time I had discovered the real problem: she was
having a severely hungry phase (dd goes through phases where she is a
bottomless pit food-wise and needs to be fed a snack every hour in
order to feel good). It was relatively early on in her daycare time,
so they hadn't seen that side of her yet. I brought her in again with
the suggestion that they feed her something (fruit or crackers)
between meals....she was happy as a clam again. I did try to warn
them about her appetite from the beginning, but to be fair to them it
is really hard to grasp that this unbelievably petite child (she is
now 4 and weighs about 29lbs) can out-eat a teenager :-)).
Laura
toypup
"laura" <becker...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:8c43638d.03040...@posting.google.com...
> the suggestion that they feed her something (fruit or crackers)
> between meals....she was happy as a clam again. I did try to warn
They didn't have snack time? Our daycare has morning snack and afternoon
snack in addition to breakfast, lunch and dinner. That's how I feed DS, as
well, although he'd rather not have breakfast. I can't imagine them not
giving her snacks just as a rule for all the children.
Banty
>
>Elizabeth Reid wrote:
>
>> Generally, what other kinds of backup plans are there? I'm
>> just asking because we don't have one; we have no family in
>> the immediate area and no friends who I'd care to inflict
>> a sick child on. <snip>
>
>Generally one has some type of family member or close friend
>that they can use in a pinch, and there is sick care
>available in some places.
For a lot of folks hired sick care really is the only good option, and it isn't
always available in an area. If it is, usually they can be located through a
childcare resource and referral agency.
When I moved into this area with an 18 month old, I had no relatives anywhere
close, and friends I did have worked, too. Neighbors take a while to get to
know, and, since one doesn't specifically choose one's particular neighbors,
it's iffy if they would be appropriate to begin with.
My son didn't get sick much, but I did find it very exasperating when schools (I
had a great daycare provider who didn't pull this stuff) would breezily say
about sick pickup policies, etc., "oh, *isn't* there a grandmother or *someone*
else in your family who can do that anytime?"
>There may be caregivers or
>'baby-sitters' available that come in on short notice and it
>is good to have several numbers at hand.
It really can be difficult to get even *one* such person who is reliable. IME a
neighbor or a teen or college-aged babysitter will tell me "oh, anyTIME, just
CALL", and when the time comes, won't be available. It just seems breezily
facile, to me to see you write "oh have 'several' numbers at hand". Oh yeah -
like it's just a matter of writing it all down by the refrigerator door. Keep
in mind that these are people the parents would have to feel comfortable with,
and have a person agree to, caring for a *sick* child. In this thread I've
learned about how just about everyone gets a lot more squicked out by a stomach
bug than I do - well, THAT is what you'd be telling parents to have *several*
people lined up willing to take on. Now, of course no parent should ask *you*
to take it on, but from even a contientious parent's POV it can be exasperating
to hear how they're supposed to have all kinds of wunnerful backup. I had one
mother I work with comment to me about such advice - "well, if I had these
grandmas and neighbors and everybody I'm supposed to have - I woudln't need
*her*!"
So what I'm just aksing for is some sensitivity. My family daycare provider was
quite sensitive about it (and I did manage backup care for the latter contagious
stage of chicken pox - the childcare resource and referral was actually able to
find that for me). But from of the interactions I've had with a school like one
time where I had to travel 3/4 hour to pick up my child (it was like, gee, don't
I have any *friends* who can pick him up sooner what's *wrong* with me
no-friends-no-family??) and what I've heard from other working moms, sometimes
the interaction about this issue isn't the greatest.
>I know how
>difficult it can be if you have no family around (my
>*entire* family is in a different state), and in this case
>you need to be really creative. The point I am making is
>that whatever you need to do -- including stay home with
>your child if that is the only option -- is better than
>dosing a sick child and sending them off to group care where
>they will potentially infect a whole group of children, not
>to mention that they will generally be miserable.
I understand your position but do understand that there are circumstances when a
parent's only other option, being to skip work, may be one which puts their
livelihood on the line. Do you keep the number of a childcare
resource/referral agency and numbers of hired sick care centers or
nanny/babysitter agencies to give to parents? This would be a big help to
parents in this stressful time when you talk to them (which you will - right?
when they call in to say their child won't be there.) Even if they do have
other options, it would be a wonderful good will gesture. Hired backup and
formal sickcare centers really are the only reliable sources of backup for a lot
of people - costs some, but they can keep their job or deal with matters
pressing there. And you can impart your message without that "what don't you
know anybody what's wrong with you" undertone that sometimes comes over from
care providers. (Not saying it comes from you or all providers - I had a really
great provider in that respect.)
Banty