Well, it's finally the end.
Kat
He took off once again on Friday - just, I guess, decided he either didn't
feel like coming home after work or perhaps he forgot where home was. Well,
now he's homeless (lol) and not coming back.
Disappeared Friday. Yesterday (Sunday) he calls just before 9am. When the
phone rang, I saw it was this guy that somewhat recently started working
with him, and the ONLY reason I picked up was because I thought it was this
guy looking for N, and I was going to tell him sorry, N doesn't live here
anymore and no, I'm not able to take a message. Turns out it was actually N
calling.
What a joke THAT pathetic excuse of a convo was, but... Right away he said
to me something along the lines of, "Um, well, I guess we need to figure
things out" - and me being downright fed up with all this crap over and over
and over again (I believe this is the 5th or so time he's pulled this since
July 1st alone) I kind of exploded. I told him *WE* don't need to figure
anything out. I told him I've figured out all I want to figure out and I
figure he's not welcome back here. I don't want him back here and I don't
need this garbage he pulls far too often. I don't know of anyone that just
doesn't come home from work and leaves their family sitting around like a
dummy wondering where they are. Wondering if they're alright, where they
are, who they're with, maybe they're even bleeding to death in a ditch
somewhere...
So then after I had a slight explosion (there was no yelling, however) he
said something like, "Yea, I guess I'm going to move out" and all I said
was what a wonderful idea that was, and it was something *I* should have
figured out almost 4 years ago. This disappearing and taking off for days
and days (and sometimes even weeks) seems to be typical behaviour of his,
and it's funny - his mother thinks there's nothing wrong with it. Then
again, take a good look at her life, and his brother's and sister's as
well...
So yesterday morning, on the phone, the convo was fairly short and
pointless. I said a few things that were on my mind and it was about 15
mins in length at the most. He then said something like, "is it alright if
I call you later today? Keep in touch?" I remember saying whatever, I
didn't care, but I was busy today - reminded him that after all the football
yesterday, there was more football stuff today - and tomorrow and the next.
He then just asked if he could call the cell and again, I said I really
don't care - and I don't think I did care.
Well... while I was out, I see he had tried calling the house a few hours
later, around noon. Then he called my cell around 6ish, I think it might
have been. I didn't answer. Knew it was him, but I don't answer blocked
calls (and he knows that)
Then there's a knock on the back door - guess who! Now that's another
story.
He ended up asking for some guy's phone number that he was working with a
week or two ago that still has his tools and I looked it up on the phone.
He also asked for the bank card and that ipod charger cord thing. Clearly
the more important things to him. I told him I wanted his stuff out and
sooner than later. He said Tuesday, I, once again, told him he knows DS has
football Tuesday nights, so he's supposed to be here Wednesday. I'll have
his stuff ready. Just the personal items like clothes and such. I'm NOT
ripping the house apart to find each and every little item he has - I'll
just get all the main stuff.
He told me he has to try and find someone - his boss, he said - to help him
so he has a ride (N doesn't drive or anything and I am not his moving
service - ha) He also said he needs to find somewhere to store his stuff
for a while as he doesn't have anywhere to go. I told him to just bring it
home (to his whatever new home) and he said he doesn't have one yet, he's
just staying here and there for the time being. I really don't care,
though, actually.
Sometime yesterday, he said something about he would like it if I went to
visit him - to which I replied I have no desire to visit with him, and there
is NO way I will ever bring the kids to some random drug/flop house that he
stays at. There will be a blizzard in hell before that happens. And I told
him that.
But. He is more than welcome to come here to visit the kids or it's always
a possibility to meet somewhere - a park, a restaurant, whatever - but I
will not bring the kids to the drug houses/flop houses that I know he will
be at often enough. He's more than welcome to come here, although NOT
welcome to just show up at random and uninvited or unannounced.
Also, while I was talking to a friend, she had said that if that was her,
she'd not want her kids to see him right away. Let things settle and all
first. She said she might have even gone so far as to make sure he was
settled - actually had a place to live first - and then deal with that. For
N, I really don't think he'd care. It was just last summer that he
disappeared out of nowhere for almost the entire summer. Just didn't come
home and disappeared. He wouldn't return my calls if I did call, wouldn't
call period. So, really, I don't think this friend's suggestion is too far
out to lunch, but I'm not sure. I just don't want the kids to CONSTANTLY
see him turning his back on them. Maybe come one day, not call or come for
a month, then come another day or two or whatever.
But for this whole situation. After all I feel I have been hurt with this
(and not just the last couple days but off and on the last couple years) I
don't want or need anything to do with him. Nothing. I do believe that the
kids do, though. And that it's not MY position to stop them from seeing
him - kids seem to be smart... they'll draw their own conclusions one way or
another down the line.
What is the right thing to do with a situation like this? I mean as far as
the kids go? He's supposed to call and stop by Wednesday - and I'm going to
ask him to come in the evening once the kids are in bed, and if that doesn't
work for him, I'll make it another day and time that I can get someone to
watch the kids. They DON'T need this just yet. I'm not exactly sure how to
go with this... Any suggestions would be welcome, and as always, I'll take
what I feel I can use (even with a grain of salt! lol) and leave the rest.
Mainly because although there has been a suggestion or two about it, I
really don't know where I stand - other than, "Well, maybe THAT is an idea
or thought"
Banty
>
>What is the right thing to do with a situation like this? I mean as far as
>the kids go? He's supposed to call and stop by Wednesday - and I'm going to
>ask him to come in the evening once the kids are in bed, and if that doesn't
>work for him, I'll make it another day and time that I can get someone to
>watch the kids. They DON'T need this just yet. I'm not exactly sure how to
>go with this... Any suggestions would be welcome, and as always, I'll take
>what I feel I can use (even with a grain of salt! lol) and leave the rest.
>Mainly because although there has been a suggestion or two about it, I
>really don't know where I stand - other than, "Well, maybe THAT is an idea
>or thought"
>
If this is truly the end, you don't let things hang and hang in limbo. If youre
married, you file for divorce. In whatever case, you seek legal counsel, one
aim of which is to have plan for visitation.
First call is to legal counsel.
Banty
>
Sue
kids are concerned, does N want to see his kids? If he does, then supervised
visits at your house or other public place would be okay I guess.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
"Kat" <xk...@none.com> wrote in message
news:K3uzk.8908$PK....@newsfe04.iad...
NL
> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
First: *hugs*
Second: I agree with Banty and Sue. First get legal counsel and then
make sure visits are supervised.
If he's taking drugs I'd personally get CPS or the police involved (I
don't know whose job it is to keep kids away from drug users) and make
sure he knows that he needs to turn up sober or not at all.
Third: Child support. Get that sorted out asap. He needs to take that
responsibility, too.
cu
nicole
Welches
> He took off once again on Friday - just, I guess, decided he either didn't
> feel like coming home after work or perhaps he forgot where home was.
> Well, now he's homeless (lol) and not coming back.
> Disappeared Friday. Yesterday (Sunday) he calls just before 9am. When
> the phone rang, I saw it was this guy that somewhat recently started
> working with him, and the ONLY reason I picked up was because I thought it
> was this guy looking for N, and I was going to tell him sorry, N doesn't
> live here anymore and no, I'm not able to take a message. Turns out it
> was actually N calling.
(((Hugs)))
Debbie
Irrational Number
> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
Oh, sorry to hear this... I'd hoped that he would
have figured it out, but you are better off without
him. Be strong for the kids.
-- Anita --
Barbara
Then close all joint accounts -- credit card, bank accounts,
everything. While they're still open, he can charge things, and
you'll be responsible, or he can take all of the money, which he has
the right to do.
Change the locks.
You're going to need a temporary custody order. You also need to
inform the school that he does not have the right to pick up the kids.
Not legal advice, yadda, yadda.
Barbara
Clisby
At least in the US, I find it hard to believe a school would enforce
that directive without a court order. Legally, how does Kat have any
more authority over the kids' comings and goings than their father does?
See a lawyer.
Clisby
Nikki
Yes, where I am at I am pretty sure that unless their is a court order
or contact from a court/legal official prohibiting it any parent can
pick up the child regardless of what the other parent says.
Kat
"Nikki" <skav...@iw.net> wrote in message
news:GN6dndlThYdjk03V...@prairiewave.com...
I pulled out the money out of the account that was not his. Obviously he
doesn't have a problem with that, and if he does, too bad, so sad for him.
Many, MANY times he's taken off and blown all the money and when he's taken
off before, he's left me without a single penny.
I also have complete and full custody and all that of all the kids. Being
the mother, and not legally married, just common law, so "married" by
default, he would actually have to file for custody or parental rights.
This isn't a concern to me.
The school knows me well - he's been there 3 years now and each and every
event (be it something small like a little awards ceremony or a celebration
at the school) I have been there, most often with DDs. The ass't principal
is also my old gr 5/6/7/8/9 teacher, and he knows us all well. I am also in
contact with the school. If I was to call the school and say that no one is
to pick DS up other than me, then they'd do that. DS is to take the school
bus home from school each and every day anyways, unless I call the bus and
let them know otherwise. This isn't a concern to me, though. What's he
going to do? Pick DS up and take him for a walk to whatever flop house he's
found a couch to sleep on? Definitely not as he knows my parents would have
his balls in a noose ;) He wouldn't do that anyways. There's no question
in my mind of him taking off with any of the kids. I also know that DS
would know better than to go home with someone else that I didn't say he was
to go home with from school - which would mean I would be making a call.
N's never called the school once for anything, so if some strange person
called and said they were picking him up, I know the school would be on the
phone calling me to ask about this. Again, it's not a concern.
Legally I have all authority with the kids over their father just because I
am the mother and legally not married. He'd have to file for something if
he so desired. Quite frankly, this isn't a concern at all for me. He
clearly does not want to be around us or the kids and has clearly made his
decision that his own life, wants, needs and desires are more important.
Those wants and needs are his drugs and doing as he pleases. The kids are
obviously a PITA to him as if he had little ones to drag around on the bus
to get his dope, that's just more effort than it's worth.
Kat
"Sue" <sburk...@wideopenwest.com> wrote in message
news:Lewzk.578$QC1...@fe109.usenetserver.com...
> My only advice is to stay strong and not let him back again. As far as the
> kids are concerned, does N want to see his kids? If he does, then
> supervised visits at your house or other public place would be okay I
> guess.
I'm not going to let him back. Not any time soon. I suppose it's unfair to
tell him to get lost forever, or something. I do care about him. Yes, I do
love him. I have seen good sides of him. I still worry about him and all
that. I also know that when he wants to, he is a good friend, partner,
father, whatever. He needs some serious help, and if he's not willing to
get some help for himself, then there's nothing I can do about that. I
cannot change him or force him to change for me or anyone. And in all
honesty, I do think he needs to get himself some help on his own before WE
can get help, if need be.
I also don't think it's right or fair for the kids to lose out. I don't
know if he wants to see them or not. I would imagine he would. I know *I*
would, but then again, I can't even imagine just walking away and
disappearing for days or weeks on end and not calling, seeing my own
children... That thought just never came across my mind of something I'd
like to do in my life. I know even when I left DS over a weekend once with
my parents, I had to call home at least a couple times a day to just check
in. He was real little at the time, and I knew he'd be perfectly fine with
my parents, but still. I was still calling long distance daily to double
check LOL
When I went to Vegas with my mom for my 21st birthday, it was for 5 days, DS
was like 3 and staying with my aunt and uncle. Again, he was perfectly fine
and I had no doubts, but I still called when I could. I don't think I'd be
able to leave all the kids for more than a couple days, and even then, I'd
still call for sure.
I just don't think that right now is a good time, but I also don't know if
I'm wrong. I just have this feeling that I should let things carry on and
in time, let him come visit. I have absolutely no issues or problem with
him coming here to visit. None at all. I just have issues with him coming
here stoned or with his new and wonderful "buddies" hanging around on the
street. I also honestly think that it would be better/easier for the kids
if he didn't show his face around here for a bit. Really, when I think
about it, how would that idea be any different than him taking off for a few
weeks anyways? I just don't know if what I'm thinking or feeling is what is
really the right thing to do or not.
NL
> I pulled out the money out of the account that was not his. Obviously he
> doesn't have a problem with that, and if he does, too bad, so sad for him.
> Many, MANY times he's taken off and blown all the money and when he's taken
> off before, he's left me without a single penny.
If he has access to the accounts you need to close them. Because legally
you are responsible for debts whether you made them or not.
cu
nicole - sleep deprived? you bet.
Welches
"Clisby" <cli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:QIednZPaFdzAZVLV...@earthlink.com...
living with to say so. I don't think a reason has to be given either. We're
asked on the official form if there is anyone who is NOT to pick up your
child.
Debbie
Debbie
Clisby
That seems odd to me - what if the person they're living with doesn't
have sole custody? I don't know how divorces/separations work in the
UK, of course - but here, just because one person moves out doesn't man
that person has no legal rights where the children are concerned. Even
in an amicable separation, SOMEBODY has to move out.
I'm not totally clear on Kat's marital situation - she says she has a
common-law marriage, but also says she isn't legally married, so I'm
assuming she lives in a place that doesn't recognize common-law
marriage. My state does, so a common-law marriage here is just as
binding as any other legal marriage.
Clisby
Nikki
In my state both parents listed on the birth certificate have legal
rights even if they were never married. Parental rights have to be
legally removed and/or defined in a legal custody agreement, or you (ie
both parents) have them by default. I'm guessing that schools around
here would call the primary parent if the other were to try and pick the
child up but they would not call the police to prevent it - like they
would with legal documents.
I'm just discussing - I've read that Kat has this under control for her
specific situation.
--
Nikki
Kat
I find it interesting that everything is so different in every place. I'm
in Canada, but I've noticed in the US, things can be so different even from
State to State. For everything, not just family matters. It's also a
slight frustration thing, I've found... Reading about in whatever place this
is how it goes and thinking, "Oh, wow, it's nothing like that here, but sure
wish it was!" or thinking, "Wow. Glad we don't have THAT to deal with over
here!"
Here, I can legally leave the province or even the country with the kids and
I would not need any kind of permission from the other. But, on the flip
side, I also know that he could not legally leave the country without my
permission. It's kind of a double edged knife, and as far as parenting
things go, I do not necessarily agree with a lot of it, but it's the way it
is. Reminds me of a friend of mine. Has a daughter that is around the same
age as DS. He and his X don't have a fantastic relationship (I don't know
her) but I know it's not such a great situation. He's been trying so hard
not to have custody of his daughter, but just to be in her life. He
supports his daughter, pays child support each and every time (and has told
me that he would run and jump to help if his X contacted him if she was in a
time of need and needed a little extra to make it by) but he's been fighting
and fighting just to see his daughter for so long. At one point, they had a
court date set to try and settle this. SHE took off - with the daughter,
then about 3-4 years old - and nothing could be done about that, although
they had put a warrant out for her ONLY because she skipped court. Not
because she had skipped town. If he, OTOH, did that, it would be
kidnapping.
On a happy note, he now sees his daughter, continues to support her and even
his X. Sometimes good parents are lost in the system here. Again, I don't
necessarily agree with it, but it definitely seems that just simply being a
woman and mother, you are far higher up than the men and the fathers. Also,
I do believe that if it was roles reversed (he had full custody and parental
rights of the girl, the X did not) and SHE was fighting for visitation only,
she would be given that, no questions asked.
Anyways.
Anne Rogers
> That seems odd to me - what if the person they're living with doesn't
> have sole custody? I don't know how divorces/separations work in the
> UK, of course - but here, just because one person moves out doesn't man
> that person has no legal rights where the children are concerned. Even
> in an amicable separation, SOMEBODY has to move out.
I think it's organisational rather than legal and if the point was
pushed by a father that eventually they might have to hand over the kid,
but on a day to day basis, the school needs to know who it's ok to hand
over the kid too.
I'm a Brit who lives in the US, our kids are in a preschool that has a
kindergarten class, so no experience of public school yet, but one of
the things on the information form was who was allowed to pick the kid
up and you have to send a note signed by one of the allowed picker
uppers to release the child to anyone else, so ours is written down as
mum or dad (we're married and together), but not with any specification
of days or anything, they aren't that anal, but even for separated but
amicable situations, it's common sense to have it recorded which parent
is picking up, or how it's split, which then acts as a bit of a buffer
if something as simple as reading the calendar wrong happens.
Same is true for grandparents and other relations, it's far too easy for
a well intended action to end up causing worry and stress, it's easy to
imagine granny picking the kid up for any number of reasons and mum
turning up a minute later and panic to follow.
Cheers
Anne
Anne Rogers
> Here, I can legally leave the province or even the country with the kids and
> I would not need any kind of permission from the other. But, on the flip
> side, I also know that he could not legally leave the country without my
> permission.
We had that issue, my parents took my son by car from Washington State
to Whistler BC, for a long weekend. My parents are British passport
holders and my son is too, but is in the US on a H4 Visa, whereas my
parents were in the US for a holiday and didn't need visas.
So from my parents perspective crossing US to Canada and the same in the
opposite direction isn't really any difference, it's just crossing a
random international border that isn't with there own country.
For them to take DS out of the US, we had to have a notorised letter
with exact details. For them to leave Canada, nothing was required.
I think there must be some kind of discretionary thing with taking your
own child out of the US, as I've taken DS across into Canada without
needing anything special, we have the same surname and the visa in out
passports shows we are both dependants of DH, but I don't think there is
anything in them that absolutely pins me down as being his mother - they
quizzed me thoroughly as to why I was crossing the border, but didn't
question about the fact I was taking him. We were aware there was
potentially a problem, but had forgotten to get something notorised
before the weekend so we decided to chance it.
Cheers
Anne
Clisby
>
>> That seems odd to me - what if the person they're living with doesn't
>> have sole custody? I don't know how divorces/separations work in the
>> UK, of course - but here, just because one person moves out doesn't
>> man that person has no legal rights where the children are concerned.
>> Even in an amicable separation, SOMEBODY has to move out.
>
> I think it's organisational rather than legal and if the point was
> pushed by a father that eventually they might have to hand over the kid,
> but on a day to day basis, the school needs to know who it's ok to hand
> over the kid too.
>
> I'm a Brit who lives in the US, our kids are in a preschool that has a
> kindergarten class, so no experience of public school yet, but one of
> the things on the information form was who was allowed to pick the kid
> up and you have to send a note signed by one of the allowed picker
> uppers to release the child to anyone else, so ours is written down as
> mum or dad (we're married and together), but not with any specification
> of days or anything, they aren't that anal, but even for separated but
> amicable situations, it's common sense to have it recorded which parent
> is picking up, or how it's split, which then acts as a bit of a buffer
> if something as simple as reading the calendar wrong happens.
>
Sure, but we're talking about a brand-new split. (Like Nikki said, this
is just general discussion - it doesn't sound like it's a problem for
Kat.) For example, either my husband or I can pick up our kids at
school. If he walked out tomorrow, I doubt seriously the school would
let me cross him off the allowed-pickup list. My expectation is that
they'd say, "We'll be glad to do that when we see the court order."
Clisby
Welches
record form I sent to the school it explicitly said: "Is there anyone who is
not allowed to pick your child up?"
So I guess I could have written dh, or grandma, or my strange neighbour if
I'd felt like it, and not given a reason.
I had a friend who was separated and I know she stated that no one other
than her could pick up her child because she was afraid that one of his
family might try it, and at that time they hadn't got official custody or
rights.
Debbie
Ericka
> Yes, as I wrote it it struck me how strange this is. But on the medical
> record form I sent to the school it explicitly said: "Is there anyone who is
> not allowed to pick your child up?"
> So I guess I could have written dh, or grandma, or my strange neighbour if
> I'd felt like it, and not given a reason.
It is possible that they'd require some sort of documentation
once you specified that, or perhaps that they'd require some sort
of documentation if anyone contested it.
Best wishes,
Ericka
Welches
"Ericka" <e...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:gate6f$2ap$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
and told them not to let anyone except her pick up the children. It was very
sudden, (think overnight) and I don't think they asked for any details from
what she said-very raw and upset. There was certainly nothing legal to
provide at all at that stage, it would have been entirely her word for it.
Debbie
Rosalie B.
>> Here, I can legally leave the province or even the country with the kids and
>> I would not need any kind of permission from the other. But, on the flip
>> side, I also know that he could not legally leave the country without my
>> permission.
>
>We had that issue, my parents took my son by car from Washington State
>to Whistler BC, for a long weekend. My parents are British passport
>holders and my son is too, but is in the US on a H4 Visa, whereas my
>parents were in the US for a holiday and didn't need visas.
>
>So from my parents perspective crossing US to Canada and the same in the
>opposite direction isn't really any difference, it's just crossing a
>random international border that isn't with there own country.
>
>For them to take DS out of the US, we had to have a notorised letter
>with exact details. For them to leave Canada, nothing was required.
>
I have traveled with two of my grandchildren, by myself - just me and
the grandchild - in both cases boys of almost 14 years old.
In one case it was from EWR to London Heathrow and then to Shannon
Ireland, and then back from Heathrow to EWR. This was my son's child,
so we had the same last name. We were not questioned until we were
transferring in Heathrow to Aer Lingus, and then never questioned
again. I did have the notarized letter, but I asked the person
checking what he would have done had I not had the letter, and I don't
think anyone had ever asked him that before because he had no answer.
In the other case from Miami to Madrid and Barcelona and then from
Barcelona by cruise ship to Venice and then back to Miami by plane
through Madrid. This was my dd#2's son, so our last names were
different. Although I had the notarized letter plus on that trip a
power of attorney so that I could get him medical treatment, no one
asked for any kind of authorization at all.
The only problem we had was in the Madrid airport where apparently
something in his clothing (the studs in the jeans or something?) set
off the metal detector and each time they wanted to search him. So
they obviously knew that he was a minor. They would ask me in Spanish
for permission, and the first time I didn't understand right away what
it was that they wanted. I don't know why they didn't use the wand,
but they didn't, and this only happened in Madrid.
My mother took all four of my kids on a similar trip, and we always
gave her an authorization - I don't know if they ever had to use it
except maybe when she and dd#2 were in Berlin to go to East Berlin.
>I think there must be some kind of discretionary thing with taking your
>own child out of the US, as I've taken DS across into Canada without
>needing anything special, we have the same surname and the visa in out
>passports shows we are both dependants of DH, but I don't think there is
>anything in them that absolutely pins me down as being his mother - they
>quizzed me thoroughly as to why I was crossing the border, but didn't
>question about the fact I was taking him. We were aware there was
>potentially a problem, but had forgotten to get something notorised
>before the weekend so we decided to chance it.
There was a case on here IIRC where a lady who was a US citizen living
with her husband in Canada came to the US to visit her parents with
her twins, and her husband returned to his job in Canada before she
did, and they didn't want to let her back into Canada without him or
without a note from him to say it was OK.
As for school pickup - my dd#2 often has multiple people picking up
her children and has for some time - she will pick up children of her
friends (from public school) and v.v. and my dh has picked up her
children for her as has her nanny. This is in Miami - her kids were
at a private school up to this past year. Many times one parent of
one child will pick up a bunch of kids and take them to some kind of
sports team practice.
Nikki
> I find it interesting that everything is so different in every place.
I think it is interesting too. I never think about such things until I
read Internet groups.
> Here, I can legally leave the province or even the country with the kids and
> I would not need any kind of permission from the other.
Same here but their dad can do the same thing. If either of us did this
against the other's will or was 'hiding' I think there are avenues to
pursue kidnapping charges but that would be after the fact. It would be
difficult if there was no court order or custody agreement broken. No
one would bat at eye during the actual leaving part.
--
Nikki
Anne Rogers
> As for school pickup - my dd#2 often has multiple people picking up
> her children and has for some time - she will pick up children of her
> friends (from public school) and v.v. and my dh has picked up her
> children for her as has her nanny. This is in Miami - her kids were
> at a private school up to this past year. Many times one parent of
> one child will pick up a bunch of kids and take them to some kind of
> sports team practice.
I'd hope they would want to know that this was happening, I don't think
anyone is against parents doing this, just concerned to make sure
everything goes to plan. I think there is more risk of unintentional
problems due to confusion than someone intending to do harm but
intentionally doing harm via saying you are supposed to be picking them
up isn't unheard of. I think it's one of the reasons why the police have
changed away from the "stranger danger" slogan, because children don't
have the same view of strangers as adults do. Anyone vaguely familiar to
the child can quite easily think up a story that has the child convinced
it's ok to go with them, which is when you need the teacher to step in
and say no one but the parents pick up the child without written
permission.
I'm going to have to figure out what I do about the school bus and
exactly what local policies are. From what I've seen when the buses drop
off near our house, they are handing each child to an adult and I have
seen them wait and then an adult come running. But I've also heard that
whilst you can sign a form to make them only let the child off if you
are present that they won't wait if they are early, meaning the child
stays on the bus until it takes them back to school at the end of the
route. I suspect it varies between drivers. Our drop off is about 3
blocks from the house, the drop off is right on the main road and then
it's a driveway that goes past 2 other apartment complexes before it
gets to ours and there is a fair amount of traffic, there is also a
development in progress just beyond, so there will either be
construction or residential traffic dependingon when it gets finished.
Buses were one of the many factors that swung us towards putting him in
the kindergarten class at the preschool and I'm not convinced that in a
years time he'll really have the maturity to not be met off the bus, but
signing to insist that he is also sounds troublesome. It's about a 5
minute walk to the stop, making it too long to leave DD alone but a heck
of a lot of effort to get her out the house for such a short time!
Cheers
Anne
Anne Rogers
> Sure, but we're talking about a brand-new split. (Like Nikki said, this
> is just general discussion - it doesn't sound like it's a problem for
> Kat.) For example, either my husband or I can pick up our kids at
> school. If he walked out tomorrow, I doubt seriously the school would
> let me cross him off the allowed-pickup list. My expectation is that
> they'd say, "We'll be glad to do that when we see the court order."
You're right I hadn't thought of it that way (I think I was replying in
a more general manner, some of the replies had raised general
differences between countries), but ironically, it's in those heat of
the moment break ups where things are more likely to go wrong, but
obviously nothing can be legal until it's been through the courts and
who's to say which parent is right, though I'd like to think that
someone might question if something unusual happened, like dad never
picking up and suddenly doing so, even if the answer is far more likely
to be oh, mum is sick, rather than I'm kidnapping them.
Seems like this isn't an issue for Kat's situation, but I guess a
compromise in general might be for the parent who's concerned about the
other parent taking the children to ask whoever it is to call her if
something unexpected happens.
I've noticed that a lot of places that take children irregularly, like
play areas in supermarkets are using a system of the person that drops
off must pick up and using hospital type ID bands to enforce it, which
can be frustrating, but no biggie if you know about it, though one time
my mum tried to drop DS off and they wouldn't let her because they were
saying only a legal guardian or something else prior arranged could even
drop off, which struck me as taking it a bit far, my mum isn't local and
we don't routinely use supermarket play areas anyway, I did happen to be
there that time, but had my mum had my son without my agreement, I can't
see a problem with her then leaving him somewhere, as if she had taken
him illegally, wouldn't you want him out of her hands?
Our church now uses a few different systems depending on age that
essentially are equivalent to taking a token when you drop off and
having to return it to claim the child, but they haven't said that it
can't be a friend or grandparent, as long as they have the token. Though
they have said it can't be a sibling, which has caused problems
occasionally, my husband once wouldn't hand the pastor's youngest child
over to his oldest child, saying he knew full well who each of them was
and had no doubt she'd been sent by her mother, but that he couldn't
bend the rules, which I thought was reasonable, but the pastor's wife
was really cross with him. So some people end up bending the rules, yet
once when I returned half the "token" (we had a sticker AND a bleeper)
because we'd forgotten to switch the bleeper from DH to me, they held
firm and let DD scream in the door as I walked away to get the bleeper,
despite the fact I had produced the evidence and they were just getting
anal that all the bleepers were returned, which I'm all for if it
doesn't upset the child, but when a 2 year old is screaming and
thrashing it's inhuman to make the parent walk away from them, when they
could quite easily have held something other than the child hostage
until I returned with bleeper.
Cheers
Anne
cjra
> > Here, I can legally leave the province or even the country with the kids and
> > I would not need any kind of permission from the other. But, on the flip
> > side, I also know that he could not legally leave the country without my
> > permission.
>
> We had that issue, my parents took my son by car from Washington State
> to Whistler BC, for a long weekend. My parents are British passport
> holders and my son is too, but is in the US on a H4 Visa, whereas my
> parents were in the US for a holiday and didn't need visas.
>
> So from my parents perspective crossing US to Canada and the same in the
> opposite direction isn't really any difference, it's just crossing a
> random international border that isn't with there own country.
>
> For them to take DS out of the US, we had to have a notorised letter
> with exact details. For them to leave Canada, nothing was required.
FWIW - this is true even if one of the adults is the custodial parent.
They must have a notarized letter where the other parent allows the
child outside the country. This is in place due to the many instances
of parents (more often than not fathers) taking their child outside
the country and refusing to return, causing a legal nightmare.
I know a few parents who've had to deal with the hassle of this, even
tho both parents had agreed to the trip.
We were considering having DH take DD to Mexico on a trip to San Diego
soon with my mom (I'd be in a meeting all day in SD, while they'd be
playing). I know I will need a notarized letter authorizing him to
take her, even tho he has her passport and is one of her custodial
parents.
It's a hassle, but I do think it's worth it, given the cases that have
arisen often with one parent fleeing with their child to another
country.
Rosalie B.
>
>> As for school pickup - my dd#2 often has multiple people picking up
>> her children and has for some time - she will pick up children of her
>> friends (from public school) and v.v. and my dh has picked up her
>> children for her as has her nanny. This is in Miami - her kids were
>> at a private school up to this past year. Many times one parent of
>> one child will pick up a bunch of kids and take them to some kind of
>> sports team practice.
>
>I'd hope they would want to know that this was happening,
Who? The school or the pickup person? In the private school, they
had to walk the kindergarten kids in to class in the morning. The
older kids were dropped off. Then the parents drove by and each kid
was put into the appropriate car. I think my dh drove her car to pick
up. It was a smaller school.
I don't think
>anyone is against parents doing this, just concerned to make sure
>everything goes to plan. I think there is more risk of unintentional
>problems due to confusion than someone intending to do harm but
>intentionally doing harm via saying you are supposed to be picking them
>up isn't unheard of. I think it's one of the reasons why the police have
>changed away from the "stranger danger" slogan, because children don't
>have the same view of strangers as adults do. Anyone vaguely familiar to
>the child can quite easily think up a story that has the child convinced
>it's ok to go with them, which is when you need the teacher to step in
>and say no one but the parents pick up the child without written
>permission.
>
There is the story about my son who was accidentally left at a swim
meet about 20 minutes drive (on a highway) from our house - he was
about 7 maybe. He started to walk home and someone whom he did not
know wanted to know if they could give him a ride and he refused. When
they came back after doing their errands, and he was still walking,
they did convince him to come home with them and call me. This was
about 1978, so no cell phones. Meanwhile I was calling around trying
to figure out where he had gotten to.
>I'm going to have to figure out what I do about the school bus and
>exactly what local policies are. From what I've seen when the buses drop
>off near our house, they are handing each child to an adult and I have
>seen them wait and then an adult come running. But I've also heard that
>whilst you can sign a form to make them only let the child off if you
>are present that they won't wait if they are early, meaning the child
>stays on the bus until it takes them back to school at the end of the
>route. I suspect it varies between drivers. Our drop off is about 3
>blocks from the house, the drop off is right on the main road and then
>it's a driveway that goes past 2 other apartment complexes before it
>gets to ours and there is a fair amount of traffic, there is also a
>development in progress just beyond, so there will either be
>construction or residential traffic dependingon when it gets finished.
>Buses were one of the many factors that swung us towards putting him in
>the kindergarten class at the preschool and I'm not convinced that in a
>years time he'll really have the maturity to not be met off the bus, but
>signing to insist that he is also sounds troublesome. It's about a 5
>minute walk to the stop, making it too long to leave DD alone but a heck
>of a lot of effort to get her out the house for such a short time!
>
We used to have the stop down at the highway (about half a block from
our house), but it was too dangerous there for various reasons, so
eventually I convinced them that they should come up to the Catholic
boys HS that was across the street and pick them up there. I never
did ever meet the bus for them though - both because in those days
kids weren't met as much and also because I was still at work. The
kids would often go to the farm on the bus and then I'd pick them up
there on my way home.
Although I think we have a very good safety program on the buses, we
still have instances of children killed walking to their parent from
the bus by an errant driver. So I don't think meeting the child is
necessarily a panacea.
Chookie
> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
I'm very sorry that it's ended like this instead of with him cleaning up his
act.
Along with everyone else, I vote you close your bank accounts and change your
locks asap. And I DO think you should contact the school, not just to discuss
the pickup issue but also to let them know that your kids might need a bit of
help for a while. But make VERY sure that you aren't going to be liable for
any of his debts and that he can't clean out your bank accounts or your house.
If another family member can be present when he collects his stuff, you might
be less likely to brain him (or vice versa).
Next step is social security -- as a single parent, you may be eligible for
some kind of support, or for higher rates of support than you have previously
been eligible for. Ditto for health insurance (public or private), and other
insurance policies you might have; might save some money to have one less
adult in the house/car.
One last issue is grandparents and other relatives on his side -- you will
have to work out some way for them to see the children. (Assuming they aren't
druggies and live close.)
Best wishes,
--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)
Eowyn
> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
It sounds like this was a long time coming. I'm sorry to hear that you
have to deal with all this, but I do hope everything works out for the
best for you and the kids. I wish I could share advice, but this goes
beyond my experience, and legal things here (Europe) are probably quite
different from where you are.
Take care!
I
--
mom to DS (6yo)
mom to DS and DD (3yo)
guardian of DH (age classified)
and one tiny pea in the making
Anne Rogers
> It's a hassle, but I do think it's worth it, given the cases that have
> arisen often with one parent fleeing with their child to another
> country.
I don't disagree with it, though I'm curious has to how it would stand
up if it came to the crunch. It does cause problems when one parent
leaves the country with a child against the will of the other, but the
law isn't necessarily clear on whether it's actually illegal for any
specific combination and there definitely have been cases in the UK
which have been faught before the child has even left the country, like
where one parents plans a move, tells the other and they fight it before
the move has occurred and there isn't much the law can do as there
simply isn't provision in UK law to say, you are both the parents, you
have to agree on this so the only way to prevent it is to manage to get
custody taken away from the parent planning to leave.
I can see why the US does it, as it ensures that any case is faught
under US law rather than a parent in the US having to go to court in
another country but it becomes a bit wierd when you're not a US citizen.
I'm not sure quite how family law would apply to me, being hear on a
Visa, but the notorized thing from the other parent applies to anyone
travelling through the US and you could the ironic situation of not
being able to return home to where the other parent is.
To you know what the exact status of the notarized letter is at borders,
as I did manage to drive into Canada without one in July last year and
I don't remember anyone batting an eyelid, if I remember rightly we'd
not planned to have DS go, DH was going alone (picking up my parents
from the airport, as it was significantly cheaper to fly to Vancouver),
but their flight was delayed, so it clashed with an important meeting, I
managed to get childcare at the last minute for DD, but not DS, hence
taking him with me, all this happened over a weekend, heard the flight
was delayed on Saturday evening and was leaving home about 5.30 on
Monday morning, so literally impossible to sort it out and worth the
risk of if it came to the crunch getting a message to my parents that
they'd have to take the bus!
Cheers
Anne
Kat
"Chookie" <ehreb...@fowlspambegone.com.au> wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-B8E739.17290119092008@news...
> In article <K3uzk.8908$PK....@newsfe04.iad>, "Kat" <xk...@none.com> wrote:
>
>> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
>
> I'm very sorry that it's ended like this instead of with him cleaning up
> his
> act.
Maybe it's better like this. I know it's going to play out exactly like it
always does. He'll be back at the door and it will be the same thing. As
always, I can't say exactly when, but I definitely do think it will be the
same way he plays this game. This time, though, I will not play along. I
will not act the same way that I always have, even though I'm pretty sure he
will act as he always does (comes back, Oooh, I'm sorry... I screwed up...
I'm a loser... It won't happen again... I need help... and act like
everything is just fine)
> Along with everyone else, I vote you close your bank accounts and change
> your
> locks asap. And I DO think you should contact the school, not just to
> discuss
> the pickup issue but also to let them know that your kids might need a bit
> of
> help for a while. But make VERY sure that you aren't going to be liable
> for
> any of his debts and that he can't clean out your bank accounts or your
> house.
> If another family member can be present when he collects his stuff, you
> might
> be less likely to brain him (or vice versa).
The bank accounts are dealt with, although with his account, I am such a
dummy. When he came here Sunday, I gave him his card... But I didn't write
the card numbers down to still be able to log in to his account online. I
had originally wanted to take off the bills that are on his account for
online banking and bill payment, but then I figure what for. He doesn't
have access to any of the bills. Every bill is in my name, so there's no
worry of him calling and disconnecting services or anything, and with the
bills, it has to be me calling. So the worst that could happen is he pays a
bill online - not that I think he would LOL
For his stuff, he said he'd call and pick it up on Wednesday. It's Friday
now and still no word. so forget that. I'm not going to make it easy and
convenient for him now. I'm not going to answer the phone for a little
while (a couple days at least) when he tries calling. Then I guess I'll let
him know that his stuff is outside the yard in bags and if he doesn't pick
them up soon, I will get rid of them. Or he can hope it doesn't rain or
something all over bagged clothes and papers lol
Maybe I'll see if my brother can come over here, but the problem with that
is that I don't ever know when N will show up. He said he'd call and come
get his stuff on Wednesday. It's more than likely going to be like every
other time with him just showing up, even though I specifically said I was
not interested in uninvited and unexpected visits from him lol
> Next step is social security -- as a single parent, you may be eligible
> for
> some kind of support, or for higher rates of support than you have
> previously
> been eligible for. Ditto for health insurance (public or private), and
> other
> insurance policies you might have; might save some money to have one less
> adult in the house/car.
I'd probably be eligible for welfare lol I already get the max for things
like the Child Tax Credit. The kids are covered fully with health insurance
due to us being under the max income line to be eligible. I am also
currently fighting with my health benefits as I am eligible for a similar
coverage for health due to income amount and I'm pregnant, but they're
giving me the runaround (long story) but I won't let this one go lol
He doesn't have a license, so he is not an issue on my car insurance, and
the house insurance, he is covered for his stuff because it didn't make any
difference on the cost of the policy. They said it went more on type of
dwelling and my broker told me it would pretty much be the same if I lived
here with 3 kids or with 3 adults. I think special circumstances are if you
don't have what would normally be expected in a normal house.
> One last issue is grandparents and other relatives on his side -- you will
> have to work out some way for them to see the children. (Assuming they
> aren't
> druggies and live close.)
LOL forget them. His brother is just like him. I've actually made it clear
well over a year ago that I don't want his brother around here. He and I
had some issues about a year and a half ago involving him coming to visit
(which I didn't mind) but his brother refusing to leave a backpack of dope
in his vehicle and keep it out of the house. So I just took the backpack
and put it outside, saying I didn't want a backpack of drugs in my house,
period. His brother and I pull ourselves together when we do see eachother
(like, say, if we see eachother at Christmas or something) but other than
that, no thanks. His mother hasn't seen the kids since DS's birthday - end
of Jan. She rarely calls, doesn't ever come over, so whatever with them.
In all honesty, I see no real big loss. The kids don't ever see her anyways,
but if she did call then I wouldn't have any issue with her coming here or
us going to see her if we were available. Same with his sister. Haven't
seen her face in so long I can't even remember the last time. They all live
in the city, though, so if none cared to see the kids before, I don't see
how that will change much at all.
cjra
> > It's a hassle, but I do think it's worth it, given the cases that have
> > arisen often with one parent fleeing with their child to another
> > country.
>
> I don't disagree with it, though I'm curious has to how it would stand
> up if it came to the crunch.
I knew someone with airplane tickets in hand, standing at the counter
checking in with their child. Didn't have a notarized letter though
the other parent was quite aware of the trip.
They weren't allowed to board. Had to change flights til the next day
and bring the notarized letter.
It does cause problems when one parent
> leaves the country with a child against the will of the other, but the
> law isn't necessarily clear on whether it's actually illegal for any
> specific combination and there definitely have been cases in the UK
> which have been faught before the child has even left the country, like
> where one parents plans a move, tells the other and they fight it before
> the move has occurred and there isn't much the law can do as there
> simply isn't provision in UK law to say, you are both the parents, you
> have to agree on this so the only way to prevent it is to manage to get
> custody taken away from the parent planning to leave.
>
> I can see why the US does it, as it ensures that any case is faught
> under US law rather than a parent in the US having to go to court in
> another country but it becomes a bit wierd when you're not a US citizen.
> I'm not sure quite how family law would apply to me, being hear on a
> Visa, but the notorized thing from the other parent applies to anyone
> travelling through the US and you could the ironic situation of not
> being able to return home to where the other parent is.
I have no idea how it applies if the child is not a US citizen. My DH
is not, but my daughter is. I wouldn't take the chance. Not worth it,
unless it's an emergency.
> To you know what the exact status of the notarized letter is at borders,
> as I did manage to drive into Canada without one in July last year and
> I don't remember anyone batting an eyelid, if I remember rightly we'd
> not planned to have DS go, DH was going alone (picking up my parents
> from the airport, as it was significantly cheaper to fly to Vancouver),
> but their flight was delayed, so it clashed with an important meeting, I
> managed to get childcare at the last minute for DD, but not DS, hence
> taking him with me, all this happened over a weekend, heard the flight
> was delayed on Saturday evening and was leaving home about 5.30 on
> Monday morning, so literally impossible to sort it out and worth the
> risk of if it came to the crunch getting a message to my parents that
> they'd have to take the bus!
>
I've known people turned back at the US/Mexico border for not having a
notarized letter.
Though it's the law, it's likely dependent upon the particular border
guard making a judgement call. I'm not surprised they'd be a bit more
lax on the Canadian border as opposed to the Mexican border. Mexican
officials are probably more strict about this than US, as they also
don't want to have to deal with the situation of an international
custody battle.
Paul
> So... long story short, after all is said and done, N is gone.
> a possibility to meet somewhere - a park, a restaurant, whatever - but I
> will not bring the kids to the drug houses/flop houses that I know he will
> be at often enough. He's more than welcome to come here, although NOT
> welcome to just show up at random and uninvited or unannounced.
>
> Also, while I was talking to a friend, she had said that if that was her,
> she'd not want her kids to see him right away. Let things settle and all
> first. She said she might have even gone so far as to make sure he was
> settled - actually had a place to live first - and then deal with that. For
> N, I really don't think he'd care. It was just last summer that he
> disappeared out of nowhere for almost the entire summer. Just didn't come
> home and disappeared. He wouldn't return my calls if I did call, wouldn't
> call period. So, really, I don't think this friend's suggestion is too far
> out to lunch, but I'm not sure. I just don't want the kids to CONSTANTLY
> a month, then come another day or two or whatever.
>
> But for this whole situation. After all I feel I have been hurt with this
> (and not just the last couple days but off and on the last couple years) I
> don't want or need anything to do with him. Nothing. I do believe that the
> kids do, though. And that it's not MY position to stop them from seeing
> him - kids seem to be smart... they'll draw their own conclusions one way or
> another down the line.
> the kids go? He's supposed to call and stop by Wednesday - and I'm going to
> ask him to come in the evening once the kids are in bed, and if that doesn't
> work for him, I'll make it another day and time that I can get someone to
> watch the kids. They DON'T need this just yet. I'm not exactly sure how to
> go with this... Any suggestions would be welcome, and as always, I'll take
> what I feel I can use (even with a grain of salt! lol) and leave the rest.
> Mainly because although there has been a suggestion or two about it, I
> really don't know where I stand - other than, "Well, maybe THAT is an idea
> or thought"
I'm sorry to hear your relationship didn't work out.
But if you can't get him to change (and people rarely ever change) and
see what the right thing to do is, then you and the kids are better
off without him because things might get worse or you never know he
could do something to harm you or the kids, even if that's not in his
character, he doesn't seem to care much about family (i could be over
thinking things).
Definitely let things settle. Let him come back and tell him if he
doesn't change his ways and see that it's "family first" and that he
has a responsibility as a father, then it's over.
Then you need to find a new father for your kids and someone that
knows what family is about.
How old is N anyway? Did you want kids more than him?
Let the kids visit if they want.
MarieD
news:a15d1789-a8b4-48a4...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
<<Then you need to find a new father for your kids and someone that
knows what family is about.>>
Finding a "new father" is NOT a good idea. Later on, wanting to get
remarried or date or whatever is all right, but not just finding a new dad.
Marie