List of famous INTACT (i. e. not circumcised) men
Stan
Tell your friends who may soon have the birth of a son that he should be
left intact so that he looks like one of these famous uncut men. Tell
them intact status did not keep these guys from achieving some fame in
the world. [A shorter list, similar to this one, is found in the
excellent and mainstream book by 2 intact doctors, "Say No to
Circumcision!" by Thomas Ritter, M. D. and George Denniston, M. D. (2nd
edition, 1996, Hourglass Book Publishing, Aptos, CA; ISBN 0-934061-30-0;
cost: $9.95. Please ask your public library to buy a copy of this
important book and ask favorite bookstores to carry it *on the shelf* in
the pregnancy/childbirth section. Thanks.]
[When I bought the 1st edition of Ritter's book back in 1993, I at first
didn't realize the value of such a list. Not being one keen on following
personalities, I dismissed the list as nearly silly. Then, suddenly
remembering how Americans are so entralled with such publications as
People magazine, and the various other media that focus so much on
personalities, I recognized the importance of Ritter's list and the one
below.]
Intact
Celebrities
The following is a list of celebrities and their proclaimed INTACT (i.
e. uncut, not circumcised) status.
* Indicates likely status, although some disagree.
Hank Aaron, Atlanta Braves
Nick Adams, Actor "The Rebel"
Cliff Aduddell, Actor
Anders Agenso, Danish Actor
Spiro Agnew, Former Vice President USA
Prince Albert, (Monacco)
Alan Alda, Actor "Mash"
Fernando Allende, Actor "Flamingo Road"
Alou, Fellpe, Jesus and Matty, Baseball
Jacques d'Ambroise, N.Y. Ballet
Morten Anderson, N.O. Saints
Benny Anderson, ABBA Rock Group
Keith Andes, Actor
Mario Andretti, Auto Racer
Paul Anka, Singer
Michael Ansara, Actor
Adam Ant, English Singer
Steve Anthony, Toronto TV Host
Serge Aredikian, French Actor
Desi Arnez (JR & SR), Actor/Singer
James Arness, Actor "Gunsmoke"
Eddie Arnold, Singer
Richard Attenborough, Actor
Jean-Hughes Azglade, French Actor
Max Baer, Sr., Boxer
Lajos Balazsovis, Hungarian Actor
Mikhail Baryshnikov, Ballet
Alex Bauman, Canadian Swimmer
Orson Bean, Actor
Boris Becker, German Tennis
Jean-Paul Belmondo, French Actor
Helmut Berger, Actor
Peter Berlin, Porno film
Ken Berry, Actor "Mamma's Family"
Gary Bettenhausen, Auto Racer
Peter Bjerg, Danish Actor
Michel Blanc, French Actor
Dan Blocker, Actor "Bonanza"
Vida Blue, Baseball
Sonny Bono, Singer
Bjorn Borg, Tennis
Mike Bossy, NY Islanders
David Bowie, Singer/Actor
Marlon Brando, Actor
Zeke Bratkowski, Football
Peter Bravos, Actor
Rossano Brazzi, Actor
Pierce Brosnan, Actor "Remington Steele"
Yol Brynner, Actor "King & I"
Horst Bucholz, Actor
Richard Burton, Actor
Peter Byerg,
Ed Byrnes, Actor
Andreas Cahling, Bodybuilder
Michael Caine, Actor "California Suite"
Roger Callard, Bodybuilder
Macho Camacho, Boxer
Glen Campbell, Singer
Greg Campbell, Canadian Actor
Truman Capote, Writer
Len Carilou, Actor
Kenneth Carr, Singer/Dancer
Johnny Carson, TV Host
Johnny Cash, Singer
Max Caulfield, Actor
Gino Cavallini, St. Louis Hockey
George Chakiris, Dancer/Actor
Gower Champion, Dancer/Choreographer
Charlie Chaplin, Silent Actor
Graham Chapman, English Actor
Ian Charleson, Actor "Chariots of Fire"
Nicholas Clay, English Actor
Montgomery Cliff, Actor
Charles Coburn, Actor
Michael Cole, Actor "Mod Squad"
Sean Connery, Actor
Chuck Connors, Actor
William Conrad, Actor
Frank Converse, Actor
Jackie Cooper, Actor/Director
Francis Ford Cappola, Director
Franco Corelli, Opera Singer
Anthony Corian, English Actor
Don Correla, Dancer
Bill Cosby, Actor
Tom Courtenay, Actor "The Dresser"
Buster Crabbe, Olympic Swimmer
Bob Crane, Actor "Hogan's Heroes"
Johnny Crawford, Actor "Rifleman"
Walter Cronkite, Newscaster
Bing Crosby, Actor/Singer
Dennis Crosby, Actor
Gary Crosby, Actor
Lindsay Crosby, Actor
Phil Crosby, Actor
Jeff Crowe, N.Z. Cricket Captain
Lyndon Crowe, Football
Brandon Cruz, Actor
Robert Culp, Actor
Marce Cuningham, Ballet
John Curry, English Skating Star
Larry Czonka, Former Miami Dolphins
William Dafoe, Actor
Roger Daltry, Actor
Phil Daniels, Actor
Tony Danza, Actor
Anthony Davis, Football
Chip Davis, Pop Composer
Brian Deacon, Actor
Eric Deacon, Actor
John Dean III, Nixon staff (Watergate)
Derek DeLint, Actor
Alain Delon, French Actor
Jack Dempsey, Heavyweight Champ
John Denver, Singer
Gerard Depardieu, French Actor
Christopher Dibbs, Australian Actor
Chris Dickerson, Mr. Olympia
Larry Dickson, Auto Racer
Don & Joe DiMaggio, Baseball
Marcel Dionne, Hockey
Placido Domingo, Singer
Donovan, Rock Star
Casey Donovan, * Porno Star
Ron Dugway, Detroit Red Wings
Hugh Downs, 20/20
Robert Draffin, Australian Actor
Jay Dun, Actor
Buddy Ebsen, Actor
Stephen Edburg, Tennis
Duane Eddy, Singer
Vince Edwards, Actor
Andres Eglevsky, Ballet
Carl Eller, Football
Akira Endo, Conductor
John Ericson, Actor
Erik Estrada, Actor "CHIPS"
Jeffrey Etting, Actor
Al Evans, Actor
Don & Phil Everly, Singers
Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., Actor
Rainer W. Fassbinder, Director
Lou Ferrigno, Actor "Incredible Hulk"
Albert Finney, Actor
George Firth, Actor
Peter Firth, Actor
Bobby Fischer, Chess
Carlton Fisk, Chicago White Sox
Zac Foley, Bass Player, EMF
George Forbes, Cleveland Council
Terry Forster, Baseball
Tony Franciosa, Actor
Sergio Franchi, Singer
Richard Fulton, Mayor of Nashville
Egon von Furstenberg, Fashion
Clark Gable, Actor
Patrick Gale, British Gay Novelist
Jack Gansert, Ballet
Joe Gargaglola, Sportscaster
John Gavin, Ambassador to Mexico
Ben Gazzara, Actor
Bob Geldorf, Actor
Boy George, Singer
Christopher George, Actor
Vitas Gerualitis, Tennis
Frank Gifford, Sportscaster
Tony Glavin, St. Louis Soccer
Paul Goddard, Australian Actor
Alexander Godunov, Ballet
Jason Goodall, U.K. Tennis
Marjoe Gortner, Actor
Robert Goulet, Singer
Marcus Graham, Australian Actor
Stewart Granger, Actor
Peter Graves, Actor
Rupert Graves, Actor
Spalding Gray, Actor
Michael Greer, Actor
Rosey Grier, Football
Andy Griffith, Actor
Emile Griffith, Boxing Champ
Dan Haggerty, Actor
John Hamill, English Actor
Richard Harris, Actor
George Harrison, Beatles
Rutger Hauer, Actor "Blade Runner"
Gaylord Hauser, Nutritionist
Richie Havens, Singer
Anders Hedberg, N.Y. Hockey
Hugh Hefner, Playboy Publisher
Jimi Hendrix, Singer
Mike Henneman, Pitcher: Detroit Tigers
Keith Hernandez, Baseball
Charlton Heston, Actor
Benny Hill, English Actor
John Hinson, US. Rep. Mississippi
David Hockney, Pop Artist
Paul Hogan, Actor "Crocodile Dundee"
Bill Holden, Actor
Earl Holliman, Actor
John Holmes, Porno Star
Anthony Hopkins, Actor
Clint Howard, Actor
Ron Howard, Actor "Happy Days"
Geoff Howarth, N.Z. Cricket Captain
Rock Hudson, Actor
William Hurt, Actor "Broadcast News"
John Huston, Actor
Billy Idol, Singer
Julio Iglesias, Singer
Slobo Illjevski, St. Louis Soccer
Jeremy Irons, English Actor
Zeljko Ivanck, Actor
Gordon Jackson, Actor
Jesse Jackson, Politician
David Janssen, Actor
Elton John, Singer
Gordon Johncock, Auto Racer
Don Johnson, Actor
Kelly Johnson, N.Y. Actor
Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
Christopher Jones, Actor
George Jones, Singer
James Earl Jones, Actor
Tom Jones, Actor
Louis Jourdan, French Actor
Kert Kaztner, Actor
Gordon Kaye, English Actor
Gene Kelly, Actor
Ted Kennedy Jr., Politician
Jack Kerourac, Writer
Jean Claude Killy, French Skier
Martin Luther King, Black Leader
Perry King, Actor
Petr Klima, Detroit Red Wings
Mark Kostagi, Actor
Jeroen Krabbi, Dutch Actor
Jarl Kurri, NHL Oilers
Alan Ladd, Sr, Actor
Guy LaFleur, Hockey
Jack LaLanne, Fitness
Fernando Lamas, Actor
Blain Lamoreaux, Canadian Football
Burt Lancaster, Actor
Bill Landrum, NY Dancer
Sonny Langham, Actor
Redmond Lane, Soccer
Mario Lanza, Opera
Julius LaRosa, Singer
Sir Paul Latham, English Barronett
Bruno Lawrence, N.Z. Actor
Jocelyn Lemieux, St. Louis Hockey
Ivan Lendi, Czech Tennis Star
John Lennon, Beatles
Sean Lennon, John's Son
Mark Lester, English Child Actor
Daniel Lewis, Conductor
Jerry Lee Lewis, Rock Star
Liberace, Pianist
Bob Lilly, Football
Bob Lindskog, San Diego Hockey
Joe Louis, Boxing
Tony Lo Bianco, Actor
Alen Ludden, TV Host
Ray Lynch, Actor
James MacArthur, Actor
Duncan Macewon, St. Louis Soccer
Ewan MacGregor, Actor
Freeman MacNeil, New York Jets
George Maharis, Actor
Christopher Malavoy, French Actor
Nick Mancusco, Actor
Hugo Manson, N.Z. TV
Diego Maradona, Argentina Soccer
Ed Marinaro, Actor "Hill St Blues"
Monte Markham, Actor
Dean Martin, Sr, Actor/Singer
Peter Martins, Ballet
Lee Marvin, Actor
William Mather, Australian Actor
Johnny Mathis, Singer
Victor Mature, Actor
Armistead Maupin, Actor
John Mayall, Musician
Mike Mazursky, Wrestler
Paul McCartney, * Beatles
Roger McCluskey, Auto Racing
Roddy McDowall, Actor
Malcom McDowell, Actor
Greg McGee, N.Z. Playwright
Kerry McKay, Australian Actor
Ian McKellan, Actor
Rod McKuen, Poet
Ed McMahon, TV Host
Vaughn Meader, Comedian
Zubin Mehta, Conductor
John Meredith, Former Dallas Cowboys
Vittorio Mezzoglorno, Italian Actor
Kim Milford, Actor
Henry Miller, Author
Martin Milner, Actor
Sal Mineo, Actor
Michael Minor, Art Director
Ricardo Montalban, Actor "Star Trek II"
Keith Moon, The Who
Dudley Moore, Actor "Arthur"
Jaimie Moreno, Mexican Actor
Greg Morris, Actor
Jim Morris, Bodybuilder
Audie Murphy, Actor/War Hero
Eddie Murphy, Actor "Beverly Hills Cop"
Ilie Nastase, Tennis
Ramon Navarro, Actor "Ben Hur"
Christopher Neame, British TV Star
Vaclov Nedomansky, Hockey
Ken Nelson, Actor "Boys in the Band"
Bob Newhart, Actor/Comedian
Bob Neyland, Athletic Director/Univ. Tenn.
Nijinsky, Ballet Great
Ulf Nilsson, NY Rangers hockey
John Noakes, English TV Host
Nick Nolte, Actor
Peter Noone, Actor "Herman's Hermits"
Wayne Northrop, Actor
Rudolf Nureyev, Ballet
Hugh O'Brian, Actor "Wyatt Earp"
Peter O'Toole, Actor
Tony Orlando, Singer
Bob Packwood, Senator Oregon
Jack Palance, Actor
Al Parker, Porn Star (Reconstr)
Dennis Parker, Actor
Jack Parr, TV Host
Tony Pearson, Bodybuilder
Pele, NY Cosmos Soccer
Meeno Peluce, Dutch Child Star
Joe Pepitone, Former NY Yankees
Rodimes Pera, Actor "Kung Fu"
Njego Pesa, St. Louis Soccer
Richard Petty, Auto Racer
Kenneth Phillips, Actor
Michel Piccoli, French Actor
Federico Pitzalis, Italian Actor
Jim Plunkett, Football
Deni Ponty, Gay Visual Artist
Denis Potvin, NY Hockey
Elvis Presley, Singer
Robert Preston, Actor
Vincent Price, Actor
Charles Pride, Country Singer
Andrew Prine, * Actor
Aidian Quinn, * Actor
Anthony Quinn, Actor
Raymond Radiguest, Novelist
Jerome Ragni, Actor "Hair"
Aldo Ray, Actor
Johnnie Ray, Singer
Ronald Reagan, Ex-US President
Jerry Reed, Actor/Country Singer
Oliver Reed, Actor
Richard Reed, Ballet
Steve Reeves, Mr. Universe
Lance Rentzel, Football
Burt Reynolds, * Actor
Cliff Richard, English Pop Singer
Little Richard, Rock Star
Keith Richards, Rolling Stones
Phil Rizzuto, NY Yankees
Cliff Robertson, Actor
Dominique Rocheteau, French football
Monti Rock III, Singer
Morien Rolhaeuser, Green Bay former
Mickey Rooney, Actor
Carl Rose, St. Louis Soccer
Leonard Rossiter, English TV
Paul Rudd, Actor
Guenther Sachs, Bardot's Husband
Paul Sand, Actor
Ray Sawyer, Rock Group "Dr. Hook"
John Saxon, Actor "Falcon Crest"
Maximillian Schell, Actor
Arnold Schwarzenegger, * Actor
Simon Scuddamore, Actor
Chuck Seelback, Baseball
David Selby, Actor "Falcon Crest"
Tom Selleck, Actor
Stan Shaw, Actor "Roots"
Reid Shelton, Actor
Philip Sherry, N.Z. TV
Frank Sinatra, Singer
Dick Smothers, Entertainer
Tommy Smothers, Entertainer
Tom Snyder, TV Host
Terence Stamp, Actor
Piotr Stanislas, French Actor
Ross Stephens, N.Z. TV
Sting, Singer
Todd Stottlemyre, Toronto Blue Jays
Donald Sutherland, Actor
Jim Swink, Football TCU
Mr. T, Actor
Tony Tanner, British Actor
Miles Taylor, British Actor
Robert Taylor, Actor
Rod Taylor, Actor
Steve Tesich, Wrote "Breaking Away"
Fabio Testi, Ital. Actor
Alan Trammel, Detroit Tigers
Dan Travanti, Actor
Alex Trebek, TV Personality
Justin Trudeau, Son of Can. Prime Min.
Harry Truman, US President
John Turner, Former Canada PM
Bjorn Ulvaeus, ABBA (Rock Group)
Al Unser, Auto Racer
Bobby Unser, Auto Racer
Rudolph Valentino, Actor
Fernando Valenzuela, Dodgers
Raf Vallone, Actor
Dick Van Dyke, Actor
Alex Van Halen, Musician
Eddie Van Halen, Musician
Brahm Van Zetten, Actor "The Bible"
Robert Vaughn, Actor
Sid Vicious, Actor "Sex Pistols"
Guillermo Vilas, Tennis
Bobby Vinton, Singer
Giff Vivian, N.Z. Cricketeer
Nikolas Vogel, German Actor
Mendel Vysohlid, NHL Phil Flyers
Lyle Waggoner, Actor
Charlie Wagner, Boston Red Sox
Christopher Walker, Australian Actor
Herschel Walker, Football
Roger Ward, Australian Actor
Richard Warwick, Brit. Actor
John Waters, Australian Actor
Dennis Weaver, Actor "Gunsmoke"
Johnny Weismuller, Actor "Tarzan"
Lou Whitaker, Detroit Tigers
Mats Willander, Tennis
Prince William, England
Andy Williams, Singer
Ted Williams, Baseball Red Sox
Flip Wilson, Comedian
Pete Wilson, Governor Calif.
Carl Yarborough, Auto Racer
Steve Yeager, LA Dodgers
Michael York, Actor "Knots Landing"
Igor Youskevitch, Ballet
Yuki, Jap. Fashion Designer
Frank Zappa
========================================================================
Stan (not uncut)
[found Friday, 30 August 1996 at
http://www.sleepy.net/men/tart/uncut.html ]
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity.
- Horace Mann
Larry Clark
Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
"research"?
It seems to me someone had waaaaay to much time.
LC
Stan (stan...@mailbag.com) wrote:
: Tell your friends who may soon have the birth of a son that he should be
: Intact
: Celebrities
: Stan (not uncut)
: - Horace Mann
--
THE BEST PREPARATION FOR TOMORROW IS THE RIGHT USE OF TODAY
lac...@freenet.columbus.oh.us
Paul
Stan <stan...@mailbag.com> wrote:
>Tell your friends who may soon have the birth of a son that he should be
>left intact so that he looks like one of these famous uncut men. Tell
[CUT ANYWAY!!!]
>Frank Zappa
>========================================================================
You can add me too. Feels great.
Herb Richter
In article <508t3f$g...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us>,
Larry Clark <lac...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> wrote:
>Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
>anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
>"research"?
>
>It seems to me someone had waaaaay to much time.
>
> LC
>
Not only that... they forgot me :-)
>Stan (stan...@mailbag.com) wrote:
>: Tell your friends who may soon have the birth of a son that he should be
>: left intact so that he looks like one of these famous uncut men. Tell
>: them intact status did not keep these guys from achieving some fame in
[cut] Hmmmm;
--
\\\ Herb Richter \\\
\\\ Richter Equipment, Markham, Ontario \\\
Stan
(numerous names dropped here)
It's clear that Larry Clark, like so many men in the US, is not aware
that the surgery of infant circumcision, probably inflicted on him and
certainly inflicted on about 90% of US born males, was senseless,
violent, unspeakably painful for the baby [the great majority get no
anesthesia], nature-insulting, in fact contraindicated, unethical and
immoral, and damaging/destructive. 85% of the world's males have normal,
natural, whole, INTACT penises. This practice has NEVER been a true
medical issue but has always been a sexual issue and a human rights
violation of helpless children and baby boys.
This barbaric and horrendous practice is based in ignorance, fears,
silence, great denial, control by those who were forced in their own
infancies to undergo this atrocity and fraud, myths, superstition (i. e.
religion), and in US medicine, appalling ignorance, arrogance, fears,
denial, fraud, deception and lies, absence of ethics, and greed. [Over
$250 million is wasted yearly in the US on this practice of "routine
infant circumcision". With everything taken into account - all the other
related matters to this practice - the bill comes to around $1 billion
per year wasted in the US!]
Since a normal, natural, healthy and lifelong beneficial body part
(belonging only to that baby) is destroyed and amputated, "routine
infant circumcision" is a euphemism for male sexual mutilation. While
preserving the ability to procreate, this sexual mutilation done on a
baby's small, delicate and sensitive penis, causes an incomplete,
restricted, limited, controlled, and damaged sexual experience. The
damage is anatomical, neurological and physiological in nature and is
for life: important nerves and erotogenic tissue, and sexual
interactions are gone forever. Between 12 and 15 square inches of the
skin system of the penis is lost- this is a 60 to 80% loss of that skin
system. [This loss of the skin system causes thinnish, tight and rather
to very immovable skin during erection. The penis is made dowel-like
during erection: no relaxed, easily movable skin during erection; no
natural, built-in sex toy for the man and his partner. Some men have
lost so much that they have painful erections, and some tear and bleed
during sex and masturbation.] The frenulum is often completely sliced
off during the sexual mutilation. [The frenulum is one of the 2 primary
neurological triggers for ejaculation.] The glans (=head of penis) is
forever permanently exposed (when on the normal, intact penis it is an
internal, covered-protected-kept sensitive part of the penis. With no
foreskin, it becomes insensitive leading inexorably to sexual crippling
generally occurring in the early to mid 40's, the time when the glans is
totally and tragically insensitive. Men then can have great difficulty
reaching orgasm and ejaculation- unhappiness, frustration, and
humiliation are the result.
Centuries of religious abuse from Judaism and Christianity led, in the
19th century, to great religious and social hysteria over masturbation.
This hysteria ruled mainly in the English speaking world. Sexophobic
Jews and fundamentalist Christian doctors in that century knew that the
penis is notably damaged by circumcision, an anti-human practice if ever
there were one. [It is anti-human since it restricts, controls, limits
and damages sexual pleasure.] Once set in motion by these doctors, it
was later justified with changing "reasons" of health/hygiene/disease.
While these have been discredited and disproved, the great tragedy for
the US is that nearly all
(~ 90%) males were made the victims for life of this sexual mutilation.
The normal, intact penis was nearly eradicated in the US!! US males
represent the greatest number of sexually mutilated males who have ever
lived in one land on this planet. This is a national disgrace and great
shame on US doctors.
Since the victims of the mutilation don't recall the agony and torture
of the mutilation, and since they can never truly know what a normal
intact penis is like, they grow up thinking themselves normal. Actually,
peoples abroad know that this practice is a horror and that the practice
desexualizes the penis- the circumcised/sexually mutilated penis is a
partial, man-made, man-damaged one. And yet, due to their ignorance,
fears, and denial, too many of these victims defend and promote the
practice, passing on this child sexual abuse to their newborn sons.
The practice guarantees some degree of sexual dysfunction and ensures an
incompleteness in sexual pleasures and experiences. The more one finds
out about this practice, the worse the story (i. e. the painful truth
and the horrifying facts) becomes. The great majority of US trained
doctors are ignorant of the history of the practice in the US, are
ignorant of the lifelong purposes and benefits of the male foreskin, and
are themselves (if male and sexually mutilated as most of the male ones
are) living with these remnants of penises. Denial about this wrong and
injustice in the sexual lives of males is one of the big obstacles in
educating others about this despicable practice.
Now read this:
The following appeared in FQ (Foreskin Quarterly, issue 13,
March 1990. It describes well the motives and views of
M. D.’s who took, and continue to take, knife and clamp
(or other contraption/gadget) to a helpless baby’s
(or boy’s) normal, natural, intact, healthy, small,
sensitive and delicate penis, taking it apart and
re-designing it forever, for life.
CIRCUMCISION VARIATIONS
by Ron Redmond
[original with drawings/renderings of the variations in man-
made, (i. e. M. D. produced), redesigned, physically
altered/damaged penises]
A study of the medical literature on circumcision over
the last hundred years reveals some odd facts about motives
and lets us draw some conclusions about why there are so many
variations in both methods and results.
Originally doctors saw circumcision as both a
preventative and a cure for masturbation. The beliefs of the
Victorian era held masturbation in disrepute. It was sinful,
therefore it must be harmful. We need not dwell on the
variety of illnesses attributed to masturbation during the
late 19th century.
Since the instinctive way to masturbate is to fist the
foreskin back and forth on the penis, one obvious way of
stamping out masturbation was to remove the foreskin. Once
this practice was started among people for whom circumcision
was not a religious injunction, there were soon many other
“reasons” found for it. A tight foreskin was the “cause” of
venereal disease, of irritation leading to masturbation,
bedwetting, nervousness, and a long list of other disorders.
The practice of circumcision evolved until today we find a
wide variety of motives among the doctors who perform it,
which accounts for the differences in surgical techniques and
amounts of tissue removed.
We can put these motives - and doctors - in categories
ranging from the altruistic to the sadistic. The pain
inflicted by the operation varies, as does the nature of the
ensuing complications. Let’s look at these categories, in the
awareness that some of them overlap and that the doctors
often have more than one motive.
The Anti-sex Moralist
This type of doctor sees himself as a crusader against
masturbation and immorality, and his purpose is to suppress
the sensitivity of the penis. He not only tries to make
masturbation as difficult as possible for his patient; he
believes that a radical circumcision will prevent what he
sees as excessive sexual sensitivity.
He removes as much shaft skin as he can, and all of the
sensitive inner lining, to attain a very tight cut. He also
removes the frenulum, the sensitive band on the underside of
the head, to suppress sensitivity further. The result is a
glans that is totally bareheaded, exposed to urine from the
diaper and to friction from clothing.
Often this doctor cuts off so much that when the baby
has an erection, the edges of the wound pull apart and bleed.
There is also danger of bleeding from the frenular artery,
which is cut when the frenulum is removed. In extreme cases,
with too much shaft skin removed, the ring of the
circumcision lies well back of the rim; since there is no
inner lining, the space fills with granulation tissue and
looks like the scarring that results from a bad burn.
As the boy grows, there isn’t enough skin left on his
shaft to accommodate the increasing size of his penis, so the
skin is pulled tightly all the time. Upon erection there
isn’t enough skin to move freely and the boy must resort to a
lubricant to aid his masturbation. Some men have reported
that the size of their erection has been slightly reduced by
so tight a circumcision. [N. B. Happening in the very tightly
cut man who has, during erection, a thinnish, tightly
stretched remnant of penile skin, this shortened erect penis
occurs since the main bulk of the erect penis has not enough
outer skin envelope to attain the full length, so some of the
length of the penis is kept back in the pelvis.]
The Hygienist
This doctor is concerned with retraction of the foreskin
for cleaning, which is unnecessary for a baby. The foreskin
and glans are still fused together, which often makes
retraction impossible. The foreskin protects an infant from
diaper ammonia and other irritations.
The doctor doesn’t remove the entire foreskin if he
feels that removing only the forward part will allow
sufficient room for retraction. He instructs the mother to be
sure and wash the penis every day, for “hygiene”. If he is
concerned about penile odor, he may excise the entire
foreskin, paying special attention to the inner lining and
removal of the Tyson’s glands, which produce one component of
smegma. He doesn’t necessarily remove the frenulum.
Not removing the entire foreskin can cause one
complication: adhesion of the cut edges to the glans; these
may be cut apart later by the pediatrician, but with further
pain to the baby.
The Sculptor
This doctor simply likes the look of the bareheaded
penis and lovingly tailors the baby’s organ to suit his own
idea of masculine beauty. He is probably circumcised himself
and thinks that the bare look is “normal” and that a flaring
corona is the symbol of such beauty. He may believe that the
size of the glans and flare of the corona are determined not
by heredity but by the tightness of the foreskin. Hence he
removes enough foreskin to expose the glans to the corona, to
allow unhampered growth. The frenulum being unimportant to
this purpose, he may leave it on. He also will not cut too
tightly, just enough to denude the glans, leaving enough
slack for masturbatory efforts by the boy.
The doctor does as esthetic a job as he can, and the
result is usually a neat-looking circumcision ring, not the
jagged line resulting from other types of operation.
The Cut-For-Profit Type
This doctor sees circumcision simply as a way to earn an
extra fee and uses whatever method he has been taught in
medical school. He wants to get the operation over with as
soon as possible, to present the mother with her son’s
bandaged penis as proof that he’s earned his fee. He may cut
a lot, or only a little. The odds are overwhelming that he
uses one of the clamp techniques, which are quick and don’t
result in the radical circumcision of the freehand method.
[N. B. Use of one of the clamps, such as the GOMCO, can
result in a very radical circumcision which produces a
boy/later man very tightly cut.]
This profiteer type runs a mass-production business and
usually waits until he has several babies for a quick session
of assembly-line circumcisions. He goes down the line
hurriedly, with results that vary from one penis to another.
Some babies escape with relatively minor mutilation; others
are skinned back severely. This doctor is antagonistic to the
use of anesthesia because it entails an extra step. He
doesn’t care about the baby’s screams, knowing that they’re
an ineffective complaint.
The Compassionate Doctor
This doctor removes the foreskin reluctantly and only
because the parents want it done. He takes care in cutting,
doesn’t remove too much- perhaps performing a minimal
circumcision that leaves the head mostly covered- and almost
always spares the frenulum. He is the type most deeply
concerned about the baby’s pain and most likely to use local
anesthesia. Before operating, he’ll allow time for the
anesthetic to take effect, injecting more [into the penis] as
necessary to prevent any pain for the baby.
The Sadist
This type is rarely documented in medical literature,
but unofficial reports by medical personnel opposed to
circumcision reveal that some doctors enjoy performing this
surgery, laughing and making lewd remarks while doing so.
The sadistic doctor derives a clearly sexual pleasure
from cutting a baby’s penis, sometimes getting an erection
during the operation. He enjoys the baby’s pain and takes his
time doing his job. He never uses any sort of anesthetic;
that would spoil it for him. He may lie to the mother,
telling her that the baby is too young to feel any pain. In
some instances he will fondle the baby’s penis before
operating, producing an erection. This helps the doctor
determine how much skin to leave on, but he has an ulterior
motive as well.
The amount of skin he removes varies according to his
personal whim. He proceeds slowly and carefully, prolonging
the operation for as much time as possible. Sometimes the
baby gets an erection during or after the surgery, as reflex
reaction to the intense pain, which the doctor enjoys.
We may note that there also exist sadistic nurses who
enjoy assisting at circumcisions. Their job includes jabbing
the baby with a syringe- injecting a dose of vitamin K to aid
blood clotting- and strapping the baby down for the surgery.
Such nurses enjoy watching the operation and bandaging the
bloody penis afterward. When changing the bandage, they may
rip it loose forcefully, causing more bleeding and pain.
Following circumcision, the baby cries whenever he
urinates, as the hot, acid urine contacts the raw tissue of
the cut. The sadistic nurse may take her time changing the
diaper or leave the baby crying in his wet diaper for many
minutes while she busies herself with something else nearby.
Some of these nurses are man haters who enjoy seeing a
helpless male being sexually mutilated and suffering the pain
of sexual surgery without anesthesia.
Instruments
The freehand method, involving scissors or scalpel,
leads to wide variation in results. If the doctor uses the
guillotine technique, pulling the foreskin forward and
cutting off the part extending beyond the glans, the amount
of skin removed depends on the tension he exerts. If he uses
the dorsal-slit-and-side-cuts technique, the amount depends
on his arbitrary choice of a line. The penis may be left
totally bareheaded or partially covered. Working freehand,
the doctor may or may not remove the frenulum and will leave
a varying amount of the mucous inner lining.
The GOMCO clamp is a bell-shaped metal device that fits
over the head of the penis. Because the infant’s foreskin is
tight, the doctor usually has to slit it along the top to
work in the bell. The GOMCO has a ring that clamps down on
the foreskin after the doctor pulls the latter over the bell.
The amount of skin removed varies, but never totals the
amount possible in a freehand operation.
The Plastibell is a plastic bell that fits over the head
of the penis. The doctor slits the foreskin to widen the
opening, inserts the bell, and pulls the foreskin up over it.
There is a groove in the Plastibell for a cord that cuts off
circulation. Once the doctor has tied the cord in place, he
removes the skin forward of the cord, leaving the bell on the
penis. The bell falls off in about a week. Because of the
approximately one-quarter-inch section of bell behind the
cord groove, there is always slack when the bell falls off,
leaving a cuff of skin behind the head.
In cases where the doctor tries for a very tight cut,
the bell exerts a lot of pressure on the glans and
surrounding tissue, causing indentations which may be
permanent or even loss of blood circulation in the glans.
Whatever his method, the doctor has to tear loose the
foreskin of some babies, those whose inner lining and glans
have not yet separated. The tearing and the slitting are more
painful- because they take more time- than the clamping and
cutting. If the lining has to be torn loose, patches of the
delicate mucous membrane of the glans often come with it.
This is the cause of the pockmarks sometimes seen on the
glans of an older male. Tearing patches from the surface of
the glans further deadens sensitivity.
Summary
We have seen changes in techniques and results over the
years. Forty or fifty years ago, when masturbation hysteria
was still prevalent, the favored style of circumcision was
the streamlines, clean-cut look, with very little shaft skin
left. The skin was very tight, even in the immature penis,
and the glans stood out prominently. The frenulum was often
partly or totally cut away.
With the advent of clamps and the accumulation of
experience in their use- and the abatement of the
masturbation phobia- we began to see circumcised penises with
their glans denuded but a generous cuff of skin left in the
groove behind the head. The streamlined look was out, and
there was concern to leave enough skin to allow for erections
and for growth. Today we see more partial circumcisions- with
enough hood left to cover the head at least halfway- because
most of the doctors who push circumcision recognize that
radical mutilation is undesirable.
The different motives and techniques account for the
differences we see in circumcised penises. Even among
circumcised boys in the same family, we can see differences
if the boys were delivered by different obstetricians, or if
one was circumcised by the obstetrician and another by the
family doctor. One will be cut tightly, another loosely, and
a third may have most of his foreskin left.
Parental preference affect the results. Some mothers
want their son to match their husband. If the latter was cut
tightly, the mother may feel cheated if the boy isn’t, and
may complain or demand a re-circumcision. The same demand may
be made by a mother who is an avid crotch-watcher and likes
to view the compound curves of a glans unshrouded by any
skin. Sometimes parents express their preferences to the
doctor in advance.
There is no standard method and no agreement on what
constitutes a “good” circumcision. The result of all this is
a greater range of differences among remodeled organs than
among natural, intact one.
[end of article]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do parents wish to have their son’s penis shaped to some
unknown standard a doctor perceives to be his/her ideal? In
many instances, so much foreskin and shaft skin are removed
that there is not enough remaining for the growth of the
developing penis during puberty. Results are radical
curvatures, bowing, painful erections and tearing, deadening
of the glans, and other more serious problems. Leave the boy
as Nature intended - Whole, INTACT, Natural!! Protect the
*basic human rights* of your child to ALL of his normal,
natural, healthy and lifelong beneficial body parts. The male
foreskin is a highly specialized, nerve-rich and erogenous
movable and integral part of the skin system of the intact
penis. It is essential for normal sexual development and
growth, and essential for normal sexual functioning and
the full range of sexual pleasures that are the birthright
of every boy and man. Allowing some doctor to destroy and
amputate it guarantees that the boy, and later the man, will
only know a partial, incomplete sexual experience. This
contraindicated operation also will ensure some degree of
sexual dysfunction (of a physical and mechanical nature)
and will lead, in his early to mid 40's, to an early end
to his sexual life (i. e. sexual crippling at that point
in life: much trouble beginning then in reaching
orgasm and ejaculation, causing frustration and humiliation).
Information on the normal intact penis, on its
physical/mechanical functioning during sex, and on the
lifelong harm and damage from “infant circumcision” is found
at:
http://www.cirp.org/CIRP/
Those aware of the sexual, physical, medical, emotional,
psychological, and self-esteem forms of lifelong harm done
to them as a direct result of the senseless,
nature-insulting, violent, and damaging/destructive
practice of "infant circumcision" (i. e. male
genital/sexual mutilation) should go to this Web page
and request the harm documentation form from NOHARMM:
http://www.eskimo.com/%7Egburlin/noharmm/
Stan
DrAztlan
Hey I've been circumcised and I happen to like it. Makes my penis look
more aerodynamic.
Just some input. . .
-Jason
Stan
If your lost your foreskin at birth, you're of course not able to say
the same thing about a normal intact penis: you were never allowed to
have a normal intact penis. That normal and important part of you was
cut off and thrown away [Those cut off of babies' penises may be sold
today.]
While you say your penis has this aerodynamic look to it, have you ever
actually tried flying around naked to see if it actually works as an
aerodynamic object?
JL
>Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
>anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
>"research"?
I agree that whether this or that famous person was or wasn't
circumcised should not be a deciding factor in your decision whether
or not to circumcise your kid.
Unfortunately so many people in America are obsessed with celebrities
and what they do and don't do in their lives, that they may just base
such an important decision on the previous post.
---Jenny
*****************************************************
I am the unqenchable fire, The center of all energy,
The stout heroic heart, I am the truth and the light,
I hold power and glory in my sway,
My presence disperses dark clouds.
I have been chosen to tame the Fates
I AM THE DRAGON
Grace Boockholdt
In article 2...@news.corpcomm.net, slei...@northernnet.com (JL) writes:
}>Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
}>anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
}>"research"?
}
}
}I agree that whether this or that famous person was or wasn't
}circumcised should not be a deciding factor in your decision whether
}or not to circumcise your kid.
}Unfortunately so many people in America are obsessed with celebrities
}and what they do and don't do in their lives, that they may just base
}such an important decision on the previous post.
Interesting. It's been said many times by Jews and
pro-circers on these threads, "Lookey here...we've managed
to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
even from being circumcised!" And that implies, "Look, being
circ'd didn't hurt us! Circ'ing is ok!" And now....when we do
the same thing and say, "Here...Look at this...we've managed
to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
even from being intact!" and that implies, "Look, being
intact didn't hurt us! Being intact is ok!"--you are dismissing
it as "this shouldn't be a deciding factor". Go figure.
Grace Boockholdt
NIC...@news.delphi.com
slei...@northernnet.com (JL) writes:
>>Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
>>anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
>>"research"?
>I agree that whether this or that famous person was or wasn't
>circumcised should not be a deciding factor in your decision whether
>or not to circumcise your kid.
>Unfortunately so many people in America are obsessed with celebrities
>and what they do and don't do in their lives, that they may just base
>such an important decision on the previous post.
>---Jenny
If someone actually did base their decision not to circumcise on the now
deleted list of celebreties then their decision would be as well founded
as most people's reasons to circumcise.
Of course, there are many much better reasons not to circumcise. The most
obvious is the inherent immorality of performing a completely optional
surgical procedure with no known medical benefits which corrects no
definable defects with serious risks on an innocent child who is not
able to begin to comprehend what is happening to him.
He does feel the pain, though.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
-Nicias
David C. Wright
In article <508t3f$g...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us>,
lac...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Larry Clark) wrote:
>Excuuuuuse me, but, while this may be of some interest, why should
>anybody really care? Why should/would anyone invest time in such
>"research"?
>
Rather than publish a huge list of uncut men, it would seem to me to be
much more frugal to offer a simple piece of advice. If anybody wishes to
circumncise their children, then sit through the procedure once before
making the call. Maybe somebody could make an instructional videotape of a
male and female circumncision in graphic detail, along with death and
hospitalization statistics due to either procedure, and the incredibly
short list of the real medical benefits of either. Have ob-gyns distribute
it to expectant parents as a part of pre-natal care, and refuse to perform
any such procedure unless both parents have viewed the tape. Incorporate
it into Lamaze classes. Broadcast it on TV as public service
announcements. Spread it around. Simple enough.
--
David C. Wright (wri...@magic.mb.ca)
An idea is not responsible for fools who believe in it.
Gwen A Orel
Um, David, most Jewish men *have* been circumcized!
Gwen
David C. Wright (wri...@magic.mb.ca) wrote:
: In article <508t3f$g...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us>,
--
"Live as one already dead." --Japanese saying
I live in fear of not being misunderstood.-- Oscar wilde
JL
> Interesting. It's been said many times by Jews and
>pro-circers on these threads, "Lookey here...we've managed
>to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
>even from being circumcised!" And that implies, "Look, being
>circ'd didn't hurt us! Circ'ing is ok!" And now....when we do
>the same thing and say, "Here...Look at this...we've managed
>to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
>even from being intact!" and that implies, "Look, being
>intact didn't hurt us! Being intact is ok!"--you are dismissing
>it as "this shouldn't be a deciding factor". Go figure.
First of all you are assuming that I am either Jewish or
pro-circumcision...maybe before making such assumptions you should
consult with the person you are replying to as I am neither.
In fact I am very much anti-circumcision.
I think these threads on circumcision are very important (it was
through one of them that I realized just how unnecessary and IMO (and
my others) cruel circumcision is. But I think when people start
attacking people who are on their side like this we have gone to far.
JL
>If someone actually did base their decision not to circumcise on the now
>deleted list of celebreties then their decision would be as well founded
>as most people's reasons to circumcise.
I'm sorry but I cannot see how making such an important decision based
not upon facts and information but on whether or not Kevin Costner is
or isn't is well founded.
I am against circumcision but I would rather someone took the time to
research their decision (even if it means they end up circumcising)
then basing it on something as trivial as the entertainment world.
----Jenny
Grace Boockholdt
In article l...@news.corpcomm.net, slei...@northernnet.com (JL) writes:
}> Interesting. It's been said many times by Jews and
}>pro-circers on these threads, "Lookey here...we've managed
}>to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
}>even from being circumcised!" And that implies, "Look, being
}>circ'd didn't hurt us! Circ'ing is ok!" And now....when we do
}>the same thing and say, "Here...Look at this...we've managed
}>to achieve wonderful lives and accomplish wonderful feats
}>even from being intact!" and that implies, "Look, being
}>intact didn't hurt us! Being intact is ok!"--you are dismissing
}>it as "this shouldn't be a deciding factor". Go figure.
}
}
}First of all you are assuming that I am either Jewish or
}pro-circumcision...maybe before making such assumptions you should
}consult with the person you are replying to as I am neither.
}In fact I am very much anti-circumcision.
No...I did not assume that you were Jewish or pro-circ
and nothing in my post above presumes that you are either of
those.
I clearly noted that "Jews and pro-circ'ers on this thread
have said..." That is a true statement. This does not
mean I thought you were. Perhaps you are assuming that
just because I used your post for my reply that that means
it is inclusionary. That is also not the case. That is why I
specifically stated my post in that way..."Jews and pro-circ'ers
have said 'Look...circ hasn't hindered us."
}I think these threads on circumcision are very important (it was
}through one of them that I realized just how unnecessary and IMO (and
}my others) cruel circumcision is. But I think when people start
}attacking people who are on their side like this we have gone to far.
Sorry you felt that I was attacking you--I most definitely
was not. I was bringing up the comparison that *has been
brought up by Jews and pro-circer's* (which does not include
you)...and showing the other side of "Well...see? Being intact
didn't hinder them!" I hope we are clear on this now? :)
Grace Boockholdt
George Waring
wri...@magic.mb.ca (David C. Wright) wrote:
>Rather than publish a huge list of uncut men, it would seem to me to be
>much more frugal to offer a simple piece of advice. If anybody wishes to
>circumncise their children, then sit through the procedure once before
>making the call. Maybe somebody could make an instructional videotape of a
>male and female circumncision in graphic detail, along with death and
>hospitalization statistics due to either procedure, and the incredibly
>short list of the real medical benefits of either. Have ob-gyns distribute
>it to expectant parents as a part of pre-natal care, and refuse to perform
>any such procedure unless both parents have viewed the tape. Incorporate
>it into Lamaze classes. Broadcast it on TV as public service
>announcements. Spread it around. Simple enough.
It's a good idea David. And, if followed, would undoubtedly reduce the
number of circumcisions that are performed. Unfortunately, I doubt
that it could be implemented.
At the time that my 7 year old son was born, a circumcision cost
$145.00.
I would assume that there is an adequate profit margin in that fee.
And I suspect that the price of the procedure is higher than that
today.
My point is simply this: I doubt that the medical community would
willingly engage in a campaign whose aim is to stop a profit
generating procedure.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has a financial interest stopping
the circumcision of baby boys. As long as it's profitable, it will
continue.
--
George <War...@wwa.com>
David C. Wright
In article <50lnos$s...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>,
Presumably, Gwen, you have a point here? I've been circumncised, too, but
that does not render it intrisically correct to perform elective surgery on
infant boys.
...
--
David C. Wright (wri...@magic.mb.ca)
Architecture is the art of how to waste space.
Tracy Newcomb ( TLN)
Daughter a uncircumsized man who did circumsize my brother... my mate was
circumsized at the age of 11 and We are planning on doing the same thing to
our son that is due in December.... i truly believe you are all wasting
your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others... sometimes when i come
in here to read i feel like i am being preached to.... or depending on what
i do i could be a bad mother... well i think you all need to live your own
lives.... do what you thik you should do...and for those of you
Preaching... whatever made this such an important factor to you? We will
all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!! not on what we are preached to
about.... there are pro's and con's to both sides..... it just depends on
the parents feelings...
Tracy due 12/9
KAGE
Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) wrote: good points...
>
If the babble below is true, it makes me wonder how I've survived it...
K.
--
T E L E V O X I N T E R N E T P H O N E A C T I V E
:: ::> ::::> ::::> :::::> Father, Veteran, Republican
:: ::> ::> ::>::> ::> 11th Armored Cav Regiment (Blackhorse)
::::> ::::::>::> ::>::::> Current Bosnia Casualty Count:
:: ::> ::> ::>::> ::>::> 9 KIA, 8 WIA, (3 crippled for life)
:: ::>::> ::> ::::> :::::> 1 Gang Raped
""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ka...@e-z.net
"Will to a higher level of honor . . . "
G E T O U R T R O O P S O U T O F B O S N I A N O W ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Steve Ward
In article <01bb9f7f$65c6a200$92ca95ce@ohmar>,
Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) <TNew...@juno.com> wrote:
> I don't understand all this at all..... i am female yes.... i am also the
>Daughter a uncircumsized man who did circumsize my brother... my mate was
>circumsized at the age of 11 and We are planning on doing the same thing to
>our son that is due in December.... i truly believe you are all wasting
>your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others... sometimes when i come
>in here to read i feel like i am being preached to.... or depending on what
>i do i could be a bad mother... well i think you all need to live your own
>lives.... do what you thik you should do...and for those of you
>Preaching... whatever made this such an important factor to you? We will
>all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!! not on what we are preached to
>about.... there are pro's and con's to both sides..... it just depends on
>the parents feelings...
We get a little loud some times, yes. But only because this is one of
those decisions which cannot be un-done.
Seriously, I would hope that you might consider some of the information
available at sites like Mr. Falk's excellent www.cirp.org site, and
get as much info from _both_ sides of the argument as possible. Perhaps
then you will understand why we sometimes become very vocal and strident
about this issue.
Steve
--
Steve Ward, Jr., Advanced Systems Specialist
School of Engineering, University of Portland
Portland OR
st...@up.edu PGP Public Key: ftp://ftp.up.edu/pub/keys/steve.pgp
John Pritchard
> In article <01bb9f7f$65c6a200$92ca95ce@ohmar>,
> Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) <TNew...@juno.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand all this at all..... i am female yes.... i am also the
> >Daughter a uncircumsized man who did circumsize my brother... my mate was
> >circumsized at the age of 11 and We are planning on doing the same thing to
> >our son that is due in December.... i truly believe you are all wasting
> >your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others... sometimes when i come
> >in here to read i feel like i am being preached to.... or depending on what
> >i do i could be a bad mother... well i think you all need to live your own
> >lives.... do what you thik you should do...and for those of you
> >Preaching... whatever made this such an important factor to you? We will
> >all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!! not on what we are preached to
> >about.... there are pro's and con's to both sides..... it just depends on
> >the parents feelings...
>
> We get a little loud some times, yes. But only because this is one of
> those decisions which cannot be un-done.
I can think of very few, if any, procedures done to a child - vaccination,
dental work, etc, that can be undone. Is this a new criterion?
> Seriously, I would hope that you might consider some of the information
> available at sites like Mr. Falk's excellent www.cirp.org site, and
> get as much info from _both_ sides of the argument as possible. Perhaps
> then you will understand why we sometimes become very vocal and strident
> about this issue.
>
> Steve
Yes, a parent should get opinions from both sides. It should be recognized
that Mr Falks posting do have a particular position to expound. I see no
justification for your becoming sometimes very vocal and strident. On the
contrary, it is probably this attitude, to me irrational, that prompted
the postings in the first place.
James Buster
In article <jpritcha-180...@ts2dl47.escape.ca>,
John Pritchard <jpri...@escape.ca> wrote:
>I can think of very few, if any, procedures done to a child - vaccination,
>dental work, etc, that can be undone. Is this a new criterion?
While vaccination cannot be undone, unlike circumcision it does not generally
leave the patient with less than what he had before the vaccination.
--
Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking atomsphere of
poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
-- Calvin
Peter Ward
Answering the original poster...
> Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) <TNew...@juno.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand all this at all..... i am female yes.... i am also the
> >Daughter a uncircumsized man who did circumsize my brother... my mate was
> >circumsized at the age of 11 and We are planning on doing the same thing to
> >our son that is due in December.... i truly believe you are all wasting
> >your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others... sometimes when i come
> >in here to read i feel like i am being preached to.... or depending on what
> >i do i could be a bad mother... well i think you all need to live your own
> >lives.... do what you thik you should do...and for those of you
> >Preaching... whatever made this such an important factor to you? We will
> >all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!! not on what we are preached to
> >about.... there are pro's and con's to both sides..... it just depends on
> >the parents feelings...
I would have thought it would depend more upon the child's feelings, but then he's only the one who's
going to get his penis sliced up.
Peter
Peter Ward
Reposting article removed by rogue canceller. See news.admin.net-abuse.announce
for further information.
Answering the original poster...
> Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) <TNew...@juno.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand all this at all..... i am female yes.... i am also the
> >Daughter a uncircumsized man who did circumsize my brother... my mate was
> >circumsized at the age of 11 and We are planning on doing the same thing to
> >our son that is due in December.... i truly believe you are all wasting
> >your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others... sometimes when i come
> >in here to read i feel like i am being preached to.... or depending on what
> >i do i could be a bad mother... well i think you all need to live your own
> >lives.... do what you thik you should do...and for those of you
> >Preaching... whatever made this such an important factor to you? We will
> >all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!! not on what we are preached to
> >about.... there are pro's and con's to both sides..... it just depends on
> >the parents feelings...
I would have thought it would depend more upon the child's feelings, but then he's only the one who's
gargoyle
Would the person who posted the "famous intact men" list please email me a
copy? I can't get the older posts to come up and I don't recall who it was
that posted the list.
Thanks!
gargoyle
mail...@pop.net
Hugh Young
>> >our son that is due in December
.... i truly believe you are all wasting
>> >your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others.
But cutting part of someone's genitals off isn't pushing your beliefs
on to them?
>We will
>> >all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!!
Does thinking get a look in?
--
Hugh Young, Pukerua Bay, Nuclear-free Aotearoa / NEW ZEALAND
Bona to varda your dolly old eek!
DrAztlan
In article
<mail24884-220...@pool020.max1.ffx1.va.dynip.alter.net>,
mail...@pop.net (gargoyle) writes:
Jeffery Daumer
Adolph Hitler
Spirow Agnew
George Custer
Pee Wee Herman
Richard Nixon
Al Capone
John Wilkes Booth
Jack Ruby
Michael Bolton
Martina Navratalova
That "agony of defeat" guy from Wide World of Sports
Boris Yeltzin
David Bowie (like he even cares)
The Maytag Repairman
Newt Gingrich
Lenny Bruce
The Lindberg Baby
Sonny Bono
Cher
Charles Manson
Charles Manson's cellmate (more enjoyment, you know)
Ringo Starr
are you still reading this?
Jesus Christ (oh, wait, that's wrong he's Jewish)
Evel Kneivel
Mitch Williams
Tom Arnold
Howard the Duck
-Jason
----------------------------------
----------------------------------
"Those who are smart enough not to engage in politics are destined to be
governed by those who aren't." ----Plato
"Plato was a bore." ----Nietzsche
"Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal." ----Tolstoy
"I am a jelly donut." ----J.F.K.
Steven Daniel
hu...@young.wn.planet.gen.nz (Hugh Young) writes:
>>> Tracy Newcomb ( TLN) <TNew...@juno.com> wrote:
>>> > We are planning on doing the same thing to
>>> >our son that is due in December
>Why?
>.... i truly believe you are all wasting
>>> >your time tryin to to push your beliefs on others.
>But cutting part of someone's genitals off isn't pushing your beliefs
>on to them?
>>We will
>>> >all make our own decision on what we FEEL!!!
>Does thinking get a look in?
I think it does, but you have to go to another thread to find it.
>--
>Hugh Young, Pukerua Bay, Nuclear-free Aotearoa / NEW ZEALAND
> Bona to varda your dolly old eek!
--
scotts...@gmail.com
> Spiro Agnew, Former Vice President USA
> Prince Albert, (Monacco)
> Alan Alda, Actor "Mash"
> Fernando Allende, Actor "Flamingo Road"
> Alou, Fellpe, Jesus and Matty, Baseball
> Jacques d'Ambroise, N.Y. Ballet
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> Mario Andretti, Auto Racer
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> Rossano Brazzi, Actor
> Pierce Brosnan, Actor "Remington Steele"
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> Richard Burton, Actor
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> Andreas Cahling, Bodybuilder
> Michael Caine, Actor "California Suite"
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> Macho Camacho, Boxer
> Glen Campbell, Singer
> Greg Campbell, Canadian Actor
> Truman Capote, Writer
> Len Carilou, Actor
> Kenneth Carr, Singer/Dancer
> Johnny Carson, TV Host
> Johnny Cash, Singer
> Max Caulfield, Actor
> Gino Cavallini, St. Louis Hockey
> George Chakiris, Dancer/Actor
> Gower Champion, Dancer/Choreographer
> Charlie Chaplin, Silent Actor
> Graham Chapman, English Actor
> Ian Charleson, Actor "Chariots of Fire"
> Nicholas Clay, English Actor
> Montgomery Cliff, Actor
> Charles Coburn, Actor
> Michael Cole, Actor "Mod Squad"
> Sean Connery, Actor
> Chuck Connors, Actor
> William Conrad, Actor
> Frank Converse, Actor
> Jackie Cooper, Actor/Director
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> Franco Corelli, Opera Singer
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> Don Correla, Dancer
> Bill Cosby, Actor
> Tom Courtenay, Actor "The Dresser"
> Buster Crabbe, Olympic Swimmer
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> Johnny Crawford, Actor "Rifleman"
> Walter Cronkite, Newscaster
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> Gary Crosby, Actor
> Lindsay Crosby, Actor
> Phil Crosby, Actor
> Jeff Crowe, N.Z. Cricket Captain
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> Marce Cuningham, Ballet
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> Larry Czonka, Former Miami Dolphins
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> Phil Daniels, Actor
> Tony Danza, Actor
> Anthony Davis, Football
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> John Dean III, Nixon staff (Watergate)
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> Alain Delon, French Actor
> Jack Dempsey, Heavyweight Champ
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> Gerard Depardieu, French Actor
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> Erik Estrada, Actor "CHIPS"
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> Al Evans, Actor
> Don & Phil Everly, Singers
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> Lou Ferrigno, Actor "Incredible Hulk"
> Albert Finney, Actor
> George Firth, Actor
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> Bobby Fischer, Chess
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> Vitas Gerualitis, Tennis
> Frank Gifford, Sportscaster
> Tony Glavin, St. Louis Soccer
> Paul Goddard, Australian Actor
> Alexander Godunov, Ballet
> Jason Goodall, U.K. Tennis
> Marjoe Gortner, Actor
> Robert Goulet, Singer
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> Peter Graves, Actor
> Rupert Graves, Actor
> Spalding Gray, Actor
> Michael Greer, Actor
> Rosey Grier, Football
> Andy Griffith, Actor
> Emile Griffith, Boxing Champ
> Dan Haggerty, Actor
> John Hamill, English Actor
> Richard Harris, Actor
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> Rutger Hauer, Actor "Blade Runner"
> Gaylord Hauser, Nutritionist
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> Mike Henneman, Pitcher: Detroit Tigers
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> Charlton Heston, Actor
> Benny Hill, English Actor
> John Hinson, US. Rep. Mississippi
> David Hockney, Pop Artist
> Paul Hogan, Actor "Crocodile Dundee"
> Bill Holden, Actor
> Earl Holliman, Actor
> John Holmes, Porno Star
> Anthony Hopkins, Actor
> Clint Howard, Actor
> Ron Howard, Actor "Happy Days"
> Geoff Howarth, N.Z. Cricket Captain
> Rock Hudson, Actor
> William Hurt, Actor "Broadcast News"
> John Huston, Actor
> Billy Idol, Singer
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> Slobo Illjevski, St. Louis Soccer
> Jeremy Irons, English Actor
> Zeljko Ivanck, Actor
> Gordon Jackson, Actor
> Jesse Jackson, Politician
> David Janssen, Actor
> Elton John, Singer
> Gordon Johncock, Auto Racer
> Don Johnson, Actor
> Kelly Johnson, N.Y. Actor
> Magic Johnson, LA Lakers
> Christopher Jones, Actor
> George Jones, Singer
> James Earl Jones, Actor
> Tom Jones, Actor
> Louis Jourdan, French Actor
> Kert Kaztner, Actor
> Gordon Kaye, English Actor
> Gene Kelly, Actor
> Ted Kennedy Jr., Politician
> Jack Kerourac, Writer
> Jean Claude Killy, French Skier
> Martin Luther King, Black Leader
> Perry King, Actor
> Petr Klima, Detroit Red Wings
> Mark Kostagi, Actor
> Jeroen Krabbi, Dutch Actor
> Jarl Kurri, NHL Oilers
> Alan Ladd, Sr, Actor
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> Mario Lanza, Opera
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> Sir Paul Latham, English Barronett
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> Jocelyn Lemieux, St. Louis Hockey
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> John Lennon, Beatles
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> Mark Lester, English Child Actor
> Daniel Lewis, Conductor
> Jerry Lee Lewis, Rock Star
> Liberace, Pianist
> Bob Lilly, Football
> Bob Lindskog, San Diego Hockey
> Joe Louis, Boxing
> Tony Lo Bianco, Actor
> Alen Ludden, TV Host
> Ray Lynch, Actor
> James MacArthur, Actor
> Duncan Macewon, St. Louis Soccer
> Ewan MacGregor, Actor
> Freeman MacNeil, New York Jets
> George Maharis, Actor
> Christopher Malavoy, French Actor
> Nick Mancusco, Actor
> Hugo Manson, N.Z. TV
> Diego Maradona, Argentina Soccer
> Ed Marinaro, Actor "Hill St Blues"
> Monte Markham, Actor
> Dean Martin, Sr, Actor/Singer
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> Lee Marvin, Actor
> William Mather, Australian Actor
> Johnny Mathis, Singer
> Victor Mature, Actor
> Armistead Maupin, Actor
> John Mayall, Musician
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> Malcom McDowell, Actor
> Greg McGee, N.Z. Playwright
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> Rod McKuen, Poet
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> Kim Milford, Actor
> Henry Miller, Author
> Martin Milner, Actor
> Sal Mineo, Actor
> Michael Minor, Art Director
> Ricardo Montalban, Actor "Star Trek II"
> Keith Moon, The Who
> Dudley Moore, Actor "Arthur"
> Jaimie Moreno, Mexican Actor
> Greg Morris, Actor
> Jim Morris, Bodybuilder
> Audie Murphy, Actor/War Hero
> Eddie Murphy, Actor "Beverly Hills Cop"
> Ilie Nastase, Tennis
> Ramon Navarro, Actor "Ben Hur"
> Christopher Neame, British TV Star
> Vaclov Nedomansky, Hockey
> Ken Nelson, Actor "Boys in the Band"
> Bob Newhart, Actor/Comedian
> Bob Neyland, Athletic Director/Univ. Tenn.
> Nijinsky, Ballet Great
> Ulf Nilsson, NY Rangers hockey
> John Noakes, English TV Host
> Nick Nolte, Actor
> Peter Noone, Actor "Herman's Hermits"
> Wayne Northrop, Actor
> Rudolf Nureyev, Ballet
> Hugh O'Brian, Actor "Wyatt Earp"
> Peter O'Toole, Actor
> Tony Orlando, Singer
> Bob Packwood, Senator Oregon
> Jack Palance, Actor
> Al Parker, Porn Star (Reconstr)
> Dennis Parker, Actor
> Jack Parr, TV Host
> Tony Pearson, Bodybuilder
> Pele, NY Cosmos Soccer
> Meeno Peluce, Dutch Child Star
> Joe Pepitone, Former NY Yankees
> Rodimes Pera, Actor "Kung Fu"
> Njego Pesa, St. Louis Soccer
> Richard Petty, Auto Racer
> Kenneth Phillips, Actor
> Michel Piccoli, French Actor
> Federico Pitzalis, Italian Actor
> Jim Plunkett, Football
> Deni Ponty, Gay Visual Artist
> Denis Potvin, NY Hockey
> Elvis Presley, Singer
> Robert Preston, Actor
> Vincent Price, Actor
> Charles Pride, Country Singer
> Andrew Prine, * Actor
> Aidian Quinn, * Actor
> Anthony Quinn, Actor
> Raymond Radiguest, Novelist
> Jerome Ragni, Actor "Hair"
> Aldo Ray, Actor
> Johnnie Ray, Singer
> Ronald Reagan, Ex-US President
> Jerry Reed, Actor/Country Singer
> Oliver Reed, Actor
> Richard Reed, Ballet
> Steve Reeves, Mr. Universe
> Lance Rentzel, Football
> Burt Reynolds, * Actor
> Cliff Richard, English Pop Singer
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> Keith Richards, Rolling Stones
> Phil Rizzuto, NY Yankees
> Cliff Robertson, Actor
> Dominique Rocheteau, French football
> Monti Rock III, Singer
> Morien Rolhaeuser, Green Bay former
> Mickey Rooney, Actor
> Carl Rose, St. Louis Soccer
> Leonard Rossiter, English TV
> Paul Rudd, Actor
> Guenther Sachs, Bardot's Husband
> Paul Sand, Actor
> Ray Sawyer, Rock Group "Dr. Hook"
> John Saxon, Actor "Falcon Crest"
> Maximillian Schell, Actor
> Arnold Schwarzenegger, * Actor
> Simon Scuddamore, Actor
> Chuck Seelback, Baseball
> David Selby, Actor "Falcon Crest"
> Tom Selleck, Actor
> Stan Shaw, Actor "Roots"
> Reid Shelton, Actor
> Philip Sherry, N.Z. TV
> Frank Sinatra, Singer
> Dick Smothers, Entertainer
> Tommy Smothers, Entertainer
> Tom Snyder, TV Host
> Terence Stamp, Actor
> Piotr Stanislas, French Actor
> Ross Stephens, N.Z. TV
> Sting, Singer
> Todd Stottlemyre, Toronto Blue Jays
> Donald Sutherland, Actor
> Jim Swink, Football TCU
> Mr. T, Actor
> Tony Tanner, British Actor
> Miles Taylor, British Actor
> Robert Taylor, Actor
> Rod Taylor, Actor
> Steve Tesich, Wrote "Breaking Away"
> Fabio Testi, Ital. Actor
> Alan Trammel, Detroit Tigers
> Dan Travanti, Actor
> Alex Trebek, TV Personality
> Justin Trudeau, Son of Can. Prime Min.
> Harry Truman, US President
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> Bjorn Ulvaeus, ABBA (Rock Group)
> Al Unser, Auto Racer
> Bobby Unser, Auto Racer
> Rudolph Valentino, Actor
> Fernando Valenzuela, Dodgers
> Raf Vallone, Actor
> Dick Van Dyke, Actor
> Alex Van Halen, Musician
> Eddie Van Halen, Musician
> Brahm Van Zetten, Actor "The Bible"
> Robert Vaughn, Actor
> Sid Vicious, Actor "Sex Pistols"
> Guillermo Vilas, Tennis
> Bobby Vinton, Singer
> Giff Vivian, N.Z. Cricketeer
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> Mendel Vysohlid, NHL Phil Flyers
> Lyle Waggoner, Actor
> Charlie Wagner, Boston Red Sox
> Christopher Walker, Australian Actor
> Herschel Walker, Football
> Roger Ward, Australian Actor
> Richard Warwick, Brit. Actor
> John Waters, Australian Actor
> Johnny Weismuller, Actor "Tarzan"
> Lou Whitaker, Detroit Tigers
> Mats Willander, Tennis
> Prince William, England
> Andy Williams, Singer
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> Flip Wilson, Comedian
> Pete Wilson, Governor Calif.
> Carl Yarborough, Auto Racer
> Steve Yeager, LA Dodgers
> Michael York, Actor "Knots Landing"
> Igor Youskevitch, Ballet
> Yuki, Jap. Fashion Designer
> Frank Zappa
> ========================================================================
>
> Stan (not uncut)
>
> [found Friday, 30 August 1996 at
> http://www.sleepy.net/men/tart/uncut.html ]
>
>
>
>
