Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing
john
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1413454402/wellwithinA/ (be sure to
get 6th edition ISBN # 1413454402
dr_jeff
Thanks for the laugh, thanks.
Jeff
Mark Probert
> john wrote:
> > Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing. You'll find it at Amazon.com
> > get 6th edition ISBN # 1413454402
>
> Thanks for the laugh, thanks.
I prefer Jib-Jab. The music is better.
Peter Parry
>Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing
"Dr" Trebing appears to be a jobbing chiropractor who believes in
"applied kinesiology" and the activator method , a commercial
diagnostic and treatment system based on the belief that differences
in leg length indicate the need for spinal adjustments.(Please ask
about your health insurance coverage when you arrange your first
visit.)
How likely is it do you think that he really has any idea (other than
financial) about the subject of his book?
Bob Officer
I wonder why Jan isn't making a fuss over the Pigfarmer spamming a
commercial web site?
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Peter B
"john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote in message
news:gsOdnUg3hY41KqbW...@bt.com...
> Good-Bye Dr. William Trebing. You'll find it
Pure spam snipped
john
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:o0knj5p2u5p9ihsc2...@4ax.com...
and you allopaths have a clue about disease theory, having only cured
bacterial infections?
and save us the financial spiel, seeing as you lot turn over trillions every
year
dr_jeff
And viral, yeast and other infections, cancer, some forms of autoimmune
disease, some forms of eye disease and HIV (1 case with a stem cell
transplant). Greatly improved trauma and emergency care, including
minimizing damage from heart and brain attacks (brain attacks are
strokes). And greatly improved the lives of people with autoimmune
diseases, diabetes, heart attack, stroke and kidney diseases. And
prevented many diseases including diarrhea, heart attacks, stroke, and
infectious diseases, like mumps, measles, rubella, chicken pox, Hib
invasive disease, small pox (no cases last several years), etc.
So, allopaths have done far more than just cure bacterial infections.
How about some evidence that conjecture-based medicine (aka, alternative
medicine, con-med) has done much to help people? Like the millions of
lives saved by vaccines every year?
> and save us the financial spiel, seeing as you lot turn over trillions every
> year
The con-med industry is a multibillion doolar industry itself. The
difference between allopathic medicine and con-med is that allopathy works.
john
"dr_jeff" <u...@msu.edu> wrote in message
>
> The con-med industry is a multibillion doolar industry itself. The
> difference between allopathic medicine and con-med is that allopathy
> works.
LOL.
talk about seeing yourself in others http://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html
john
recoveries under the various methods of healing we have this interesting
report: 91 % to 100% recover under certain Chiropractic treatment-(not all
chiropractors understand this method), 97% to 100% recover under correct
Hygienic treatment, 72% under Nurse Kenny treatment, 35% recover with no
professional care, 17% under medical care."----Eleanor McBean
http://www.whale.to/v/poliogirl.html
Peter Parry
>"According to a survey made in 1946
Would that have been a "survey" carried out one lunchtime by a
chiropractor by any chance, or possibly one which came to McBean in a
trance?
>Eleanor McBean
Naturopath and holder of a dubious degree in some unknown subject who
believed that smallpox vaccine often caused syphilis, paralysis,
leprosy, and cancer.
The one who stunned the world (or at least the denizens of Paddy's Bar
at the time) by declaring she had survived the Spanish Flu as a child
in 1918 because she and her family did not receive any vaccinations
for it . She seemed to remain ignorant of the fact that not only did
no vaccine against influenza existed in 1918 but the cause of
influenza had not yet been discovered and would not be until 1933.
Peter Bowditch
Scopie's Law. Everybody laugh.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
john
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:28:59 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
>>"According to a survey made in 1946
>
> Would that have been a "survey" carried out one lunchtime by a
> chiropractor by any chance, or possibly one which came to McBean in a
> trance?
Cured polio which was more than you allopaths could do, apart fromt he fact
you were mostly causing it
>
>>Eleanor McBean
>
> Naturopath and holder of a dubious degree in some unknown subject who
> believed that smallpox vaccine often caused syphilis, paralysis,
> leprosy, and cancer.
She was right though http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox2.html
>
> The one who stunned the world (or at least the denizens of Paddy's Bar
> at the time) by declaring she had survived the Spanish Flu as a child
> in 1918 because she and her family did not receive any vaccinations
> for it . She seemed to remain ignorant of the fact that not only did
> no vaccine against influenza existed in 1918 but the cause of
> influenza had not yet been discovered and would not be until 1933.
It was the 15 other vaccines http://www.whale.to/v/spanish_flu.html
duh!
john
"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
>>
>
> Scopie's Law. Everybody laugh.
>
Yeah, at your pathetic logical fallacy
http://www.whale.to/b/appeal_to_incredulity.html
RAOFL!
Peter Bowditch
Peter B
Thanks to your lot for worsening conditions for the sick and diseased
that makes it that much more difficult to correct the condition.
Sometimes it has gone on far too long and now is totally irreversible
making it far too costly for even the very wealthy. We should thank you
for the trillions? No, we should damn you.
Peter B
In 1959, an article in the Journal of the National Chiropractic
Association disagreed with the surgeon general:
"The test tube fight against polio has failed....The death rate has
increased among children who have been vaccinated....There is no vaccine
against fatigue or a traumatic lesion in the anterior cord or motor
cells....In the mild, and especially in the more acute, chiropractic is
supreme. Adjustments of the entire spine will break up the cord
congestion, if given within the 3 days of grace given by Nature.
Chiropractic aids Nature....The fatigue of acute polio can be caused by
other factors, such as whooping cough and smallpox vaccines. The latter
can cause vaccinosyphilis in the pure blood of children."
Encouraged by the leadership of the chiropractic profession,
chiropractors advertised chiropractic adjustments as a method of
treating and preventing polio, recommending "early treatment before it
is too late." A chiropractic organization called We Walk Again
proclaimed that maximum recovery from polio was found only in
chiropractic .
Time and science have proven chiropractors wrong. Today, thanks to the
use of vaccination, polio has been nearly eradicated: "The present rate
of polio is less than one hundredth its lowest level before oral
immunization programs began, and public health officials have predicted
worldwide eradication by the year 2000." Immunization is one of the most
successful public health measures ever put into effect and is
responsible for the control or eradication of such deadly communicable
diseases as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, and whooping cough.
end quote.
john
>
RAOFL!
Keep em coming
john
>
Oh, tell us how it isn't, that should raise a few laughs
Peter Parry
>
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>news:7o8qj5t5oj5lior4h...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:28:59 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"According to a survey made in 1946
>>
>> Would that have been a "survey" carried out one lunchtime by a
>> chiropractor by any chance, or possibly one which came to McBean in a
>> trance?
>
>Cured polio which was more than you allopaths could do, apart fromt he fact
>you were mostly causing it
There is no evidence that any bonewaggler has ever cured a single case
of Polio. Your claim seems to be based upon a "survey" in 1946 yet
you are unable to identify this survey, name who carried it out or
produce a copy. The only "source" appears to this one quote from a
discredited naturopath with an apparently fake degree.
>She was right though
I suspect the only thing she was ever right about was the amount in
her bank account.
Peter Bowditch
All I have to do to demonstrate to someone who knows something about
logic is to quote the law:
"In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a
credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
laughed out of the room"
john
> her bank account.
>
do try harder
"We also hear of the noble work of Father Damien among the lepers of Hawaii,
but we are not told that there was not one leper in the whole of the
Hawaiian Islands before the noble work of Jenner reached them. By the
nineties, 10 per cent of the natives were lepers."---Lionel Dole
john
> credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
> laughed out of the room"
>
we all know scopies law but it is a logiocal fallacy dear boy. As stupid
as you could possibly get, and just ad hominem essentially. But that is
what you are reduced to when you have absolutely no argument to refute the
documents on whale.
dr_jeff
I agree with Peter Bodwitch. The evidence is so stupid and flimsey and
so poor, that suggesting that the whale.to site is a good source of
evidence is evidence that the person making the claim has very little
knowledge in the fields of science, evidence and medicine.
John may believe otherwise. It's his choice to ignore good science and
support the utter crap on the whale.to site.
Jeff
Peter Bowditch
Peter Parry
>"We also hear of the noble work of Father Damien among the lepers of Hawaii,
>but we are not told that there was not one leper in the whole of the
>Hawaiian Islands before the noble work of Jenner reached them.
Another unproven unverifiable claim from an unknown source by a
peddler of quack medicine. Is this the best you have?
>Lionel Dole
Luminary of the now long defunct National Anti-Vaccination League in
the 1960's and disciple of the unhinged Miss Lily Loat. Remind us,
what were his qualifications and training?
john
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 22:44:45 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
>>"We also hear of the noble work of Father Damien among the lepers of
>>Hawaii,
>>but we are not told that there was not one leper in the whole of the
>>Hawaiian Islands before the noble work of Jenner reached them.
>
> Another unproven unverifiable claim from an unknown source by a
> peddler of quack medicine. Is this the best you have?
Study arm to arm vaccination which was 75% of vaccination in 1890.
"I should be sorry to see a leper cook, and I go further than that. In
vaccinating, I think hardly a medical man would take vaccine lymph from the
arm of a leper infant. I know it has been our practice for the last twenty
years not to do so." ---1883 Dr Henry Ebden, President of the (South
African) Medical Board
>
>>Lionel Dole
>
> Luminary of the now long defunct National Anti-Vaccination League in
> the 1960's and disciple of the unhinged Miss Lily Loat. Remind us,
> what were his qualifications and training?
You mean her, and that is ad hominem, but if you want qualifications try
Crookshank, Russell, Hadwen, etc
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox_c.html
CROOKSHANK, EDGAR MARCH, M.B. Lond. (Honours in Obst.) 1884, M.R.C.S. Eng.
1881 (King's Coll.); Exhib. and Gold Medallist in Anat. 1st M.B. Lond. 1879;
Fell. King's Coll.; Mem. Roy. Micros. Soc. and Path. Soc.; Prof, of Comp.
Path, and Bacteriol. King's Coll.; late House Surg. King's Coll. Hosp., and
Civil Surg. Med. Staff Egyptian Campaign (Medal and Clasp, Tel-el-Kebir, and
Khedive's Star). Director of the Bacteriological Laboratory, King's
College, London
john
>>as you could possibly get, and just ad hominem essentially. But that is
>>what you are reduced to when you have absolutely no argument to refute the
>>documents on whale.
>>
>
> Please explain why it is a logical fallacy.
>
you first, explain Scopies law
Peter Parry
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>> Another unproven unverifiable claim from an unknown source by a
>> peddler of quack medicine. Is this the best you have?
>Study arm to arm vaccination which was 75% of vaccination in 1890.
I hate to have to break this to you but it isn't 1890 any more.
> "I should be sorry to see a leper cook, and I go further than that. In
>vaccinating, I think hardly a medical man would take vaccine lymph from the
>arm of a leper infant. I know it has been our practice for the last twenty
>years not to do so." ---1883 Dr Henry Ebden, President of the (South
>African) Medical Board
What relevance do you think this quotation, assuming it is correct,
has to today?
>> Luminary of the now long defunct National Anti-Vaccination League in
>> the 1960's and disciple of the unhinged Miss Lily Loat. Remind us,
>> what were his qualifications and training?
>
>You mean her,
I mean Dole, I know Loat had no qualifications or experience
whatsoever as she spent her life as secretary to the league.
>and and that is ad hominem,
No, it is asking for the qualifications of the person making a
quotation you are relying upon. It would be nice to see the report
mentioned but I doubt it ever existed. Victorian England had many odd
societies such as the anti vaccination league and all relied upon
hectoring pamphlets and letters to promote their cause. Very few were
noted for the accuracy of their content.
> try
>Crookshank, Russell, Hadwen, etc
Can't you find anything less than 140 years old? I realise things
like bone waggling and Homeopathy have not advanced since then but
almost everyone else has.
>CROOKSHANK, EDGAR MARCH, M.B.
Would that be the Crookshank who thought cowpox and smallpox were
quite different so advocated a more dangerous vaccine made from
smallpox instead?
Hadwen, member of the Plymouth Brethren and the London Association
for the Prevention of Premature Burial. A skilled big-game hunter and
vegetarian.known for his denial of the germ theory of disease.
All this may be of interest to students of the history of medicine but
really, is this all you have to rely upon?
john
>
> I hate to have to break this to you but it isn't 1890 any more.
You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.
> What relevance do you think this quotation, assuming it is correct,
> has to today?
You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.
> Can't you find anything less than 140 years old? I realise things
> like bone waggling and Homeopathy have not advanced since then but
> almost everyone else has.
Oh really, still to cure anything apart from bacterial infections. And
history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax, as
mass death agent. Without saving one single life from smallpox
>
>>CROOKSHANK, EDGAR MARCH, M.B.
>
> Would that be the Crookshank who thought cowpox and smallpox were
> quite different so advocated a more dangerous vaccine made from
> smallpox instead?
>
> Hadwen, member of the Plymouth Brethren and the London Association
> for the Prevention of Premature Burial. A skilled big-game hunter and
> vegetarian.known for his denial of the germ theory of disease.
>
> All this may be of interest to students of the history of medicine but
> really, is this all you have to rely upon?
>
Yes, history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax
Peter Bowditch
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Scopie's_Law
"In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a
credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
laughed out of the room".
It is self-explanatory, but for those with no ability to understand
English it means that anyone citing a reference source that is known
to be highly suspect must be suspected of lacking any ability to think
for themselves, and therefore whatever they are saying can be weighted
accordingly and dismissed without further examination.
Peter Parry
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>>
>>>Study arm to arm vaccination which was 75% of vaccination in 1890.
>>
>> I hate to have to break this to you but it isn't 1890 any more.
>
>You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.
Actually I asked for proof of your rather silly claim. I presume you
have none?
>> What relevance do you think this quotation, assuming it is correct,
>> has to today?
>
>You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.
I didn't say that, but it certainly didn't. Syphilis is a sexually
transmitted disease caused by a spirochete Treponema pallidum.
Treponema pallidum usually cannot survive outside the human body for
more than an hour or two.
Of the following two possible causes which strikes you as being more
likely:-
1. Syphilis was endemic amongst the crews of the first ships to reach
Hawaii. The first thing sailors looked for when they landed was
female companionship. Syphilis is a sexual transmitted disease. The
natives caught Syphilis from the sailors.
2. Syphilis was never passed on by visiting sailors who were all
aware of their diseases and pious god fearing men who would not dream
of touching a native female out of wedlock. All syphilis in Hawaii
arrived in vaccines protected from perishing in some unknown,
untested, undiscovered and unrepeatable way.
>> Can't you find anything less than 140 years old? I realise things
>> like bone waggling and Homeopathy have not advanced since then but
>> almost everyone else has.
>Oh really, still to cure anything apart from bacterial infections. And
>history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax, as
>mass death agent. Without saving one single life from smallpox
Could you rephrase that in English as I have no idea what you are
trying to say.
>> All this may be of interest to students of the history of medicine but
>> really, is this all you have to rely upon?
>Yes, history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax
If it did it might be. However, it doesn't. Nor does quoting
pamphlets from the defunct anti vaccination league which ended it's
days as one person in a flat in Lebanon Road in Croydon,Surrey (for
the Americans, not a dreadfully distinguished neighbourhood) having
morphed into the Howey Foundation [against vaccination] Ltd.
Rather amusingly the educationally challenged team at "Jabs" quote
one Gary Krasner as thinking the Anti-vaccination League is impartial.
"A report on Vaccination and Immunization, published by The Howey
Foundation, Surrey, England (which takes an impartial look at all
vaccination procedures) stated flatly: "It is now accepted that
paralytic poliomyelitis was precipitated by diphtheria vaccines and
tonsillectomies"
(Medical Myths Die Hard -Part I By Gary Krasner (09/22/06))
Such is the quality of references you have to use.
Similarly monographs by employees of said League from well over a
century ago are now amusing social artifacts but hardly objective
proof of anything.
You really should understand that it is only Homeopathy and its ilk
which are preserved in Aspic from the 1800's. Everyone else has
carried on learning. I don't know of a single doctor who relies upon
medical textbooks from the century before last to make treatment
decisions yet homeopaths, bonewagglers and similar use them every
day.
PeterB - Original
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:27:39 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
> >Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing
>
> "Dr" Trebing appears to be a jobbing chiropractor who believes in
> "applied kinesiology" and the activator method , a commercial
> diagnostic and treatment system based on the belief that differences
> in leg length indicate the need for spinal adjustments.(Please ask
> about your health insurance coverage when you arrange your first
> visit.)
>
> How likely is it do you think that he really has any idea (other than
> financial) about the subject of his book?
How likely is it do you think that you would have made such a comment
without first reading it for yourself?
PeterB - Original
>
> >>>we all know scopies law but it is a logiocal fallacy dear boy. As stupid
> >>>as you could possibly get, and just ad hominem essentially. But that is
> >>>what you are reduced to when you have absolutely no argument to refute the
> >>>documents on whale.
>
> >> Please explain why it is a logical fallacy.
>
> >you first, explain Scopies law
>
> http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Scopie's_Law
>
> "In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a
> credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
> laughed out of the room".
>
> It is self-explanatory, but for those with no ability to understand
> English it means that anyone citing a reference source that is known
That's the logical fallacy right there.
"A logical fallacy is an element of an argument that is flawed,
essentially rendering the line of reasoning, if not the entire
argument, invalid." [www.essay-writing.suite101.com]
You say a "reference source known to be highly suspect..." suggesting
there is consensus that such is the case, when in fact there is no
such consensus. Now, if you were to cite your OWN source, an external
reference to John's website that agrees with you, but you cannot do
that, because it doesn't exist. And since whale contains thousands of
articles, most of which I am quite certain you've never read, you are
being a lazy ass (as usual) in dismissing the entire website.
> must be suspected of lacking any ability to think
> for themselves, and therefore whatever they are saying can be weighted
> accordingly and dismissed without further examination.
A dim bulb that still _projects_
PeterB - Original
sometimes, everybody is wrong.
PeterB - Original
I personally don't rely on these historical quotes to know that
vaccine is a speculative (at best) medical intervention. The fact
that vaccine was responsible for 3.5%, at most, of the decline in
disease-related mortality during most of the last century (ref.
"Public Health at the Crossroads," by R. Beaglehole and R Bonita, pg
43] means that the vast improvement in the severity of infectious
disease response occurred *without* vaccine. Remember, most vaccines
were not available during most of the 20th century. No one can say
with any certainty whatsoever whether vaccine was responsible for even
1% of such declines. And, in the absence of properly done RCT studies
on adequate populations for sufficient periods of time, we also don't
know much at all about vaccine safety. I don't suppose you would like
to cite any data that would contradict any of this?
Peter B
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:eaf1589c-e96e-48c7...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
sometimes, everybody is wrong.
===============================
Inane comment.
Peter Parry
<p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 2, 1:40�pm, Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
>I personally don't rely on these historical quotes to know that
>vaccine is a speculative (at best) medical intervention. The fact
>that vaccine was responsible for 3.5%, at most, of the decline in
>disease-related mortality during most of the last century (ref.
>"Public Health at the Crossroads," by R. Beaglehole and R Bonita, pg
>43] means that the vast improvement in the severity of infectious
>disease response occurred *without* vaccine.
There is ample evidence to the contrary, you should read more widely.
Your single quotation, from one page of one of the many books by B&B
you use as a reference, has been taken out of context by a number of
anti-vaccination groups and I note you have also both misquoted and
misused it. What they wrote was -
"Various explanations have been advanced for the decline in mortality
rates. which gathered speed in nineteenth century Europe. McKeown
proposed that steady improvements in nutrition beginning in the
eighteenth century, together with improvements in water supply and
sanitation, an increase in the general standard of living following
[he Industrial Revolution, and a reduction in birth rates propelled
the health transition. The development of effective medical measures
was too late to make a major contribution to the mortality decline in
Europe and other western countries. For example, it has been estimated
that, at most, only 3.5% of the total decline in mortality in the
United States of America between 1900 and 1973 could be ascribed to
medical measures introduced for the major infectious diseases. On the
other hand, targeted public health Interventions including
vaccination, personal hygiene campaigns, and improved child health
care services, were of major importance....
The more recent decline in mortality in poorer countries has some
parallels with nineteenth-century Europe. For example, the dramatic
gains in China in the last four decades were associated with major
improvements in food supply {despite occasional devastating famines)
as well as public health campaigns directed at the control of
infectious diseases; literacy, especially for females, has also been
of major importance.
The most recent declines in mortality however, have been influenced
greatly by public health and medical care advances. For example,
smallpox, a major scourge of humankind for centuries, has been
eradicated, "
In the late 1800's there were a number of major killers accounting for
many deaths, particularly in infants. Poor nutrition, squalid
conditions and in particular poor water were major factors. In 1831
31,000 people in the UK died of Cholera, Typhus regularly killed
16,000 per year (double that in hot dry summer years). in 1840 50,000
succumbed to measles and whooping cough. No one doubts that prior to
the start of the second world war social and public health
improvements were by far the greatest influence on the well being of
the population. The work of civil engineers such as Bazalgette had a
far greater impact than any other measure.
By the end of WW2 however the civil engineering aspects of disease
mitigation were reaching the end of the road in the west and poor
housing and nutrition were no longer significant in many western
countries. In the UK wartime rationing had led to one of the best fed
populations ever but diseases such as Polio, measles, whooping cough
and mumps remained common and were not going to be reduced
significantly by social or public health measures. The major decline
in mortality in the west caused by social and economic influences upon
health and disease took place before 1930, after that time measures
such as vaccination had a far more profound effect.
The very valid point Beaglehole and Bonita make of course is that
there are still many parts of the world where social and public health
measures have the potential to improve life often at relatively small
cost. They do not, and never have, proposed that medical improvements
were either insignificant or unnecessary, you should read the whole
book.
>Remember, most vaccines
>were not available during most of the 20th century.
I'm not sure where you get that idea from but it is wrong,
>No one can say with any certainty whatsoever whether vaccine was responsible for even
>1% of such declines.
Your figure is meaningless. No one questions that massive
improvements in public health were made prior to the 1930's by social
and public health measures. No one doubts that in that time the
effect of public health improvement dwarfed that of medical advances.
However, beyond that time the picture changes dramatically.
For example in Rabies the death rate without vaccination is as near as
makes no difference 100%. With vaccination given pre-exposure and
immediately after suspected exposure it is nearly zero. There is no
other effective treatment.
The number of Hib meningitis cases in children under 5 years in the
USA was fairly steady at about 20 per 100,000 from 1980 until 1988
when Hib conjugate vaccine was introduced. By 1991 it had dropped to
about 3 cases per 100,000. During that time period there was no
significant alteration in standards of living or social health.
In the Gambia the rate of Hib meningitis in children prior to 1992
when the first vaccination against it started had been fairly constant
for decades at about 220 cases per 100,000. By 1998 it was about 5
per 100,000. In the same time there were no significant social
changes.
Polio affected 350,000 children worldwide in 1980, by 2006 that was
down to 800 because of vaccination. Since then it has increased again
and in 2008 was 1,655 because the mad mullahs of northern Nigeria say
that Polio vaccination is a plot by the USA to spread Aids and
infertility and are killing public health officials involved in
administering it. I wonder if any read Whale?
john
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
usual allopathic drivel
the smallpox vax is as ludricous as Scopies law
http://www.whale.to/a/smallpox_hoax.html
now you know why allopathy is considered a church
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/god.html
john
> down to 800 because of vaccination. Since then it has increased again
> and in 2008 was 1,655 because the mad mullahs of northern Nigeria say
> that Polio vaccination is a plot by the USA to spread Aids and
> infertility and are killing public health officials involved in
> administering it. I wonder if any read Whale?
>
Utter drivel http://www.whale.to/v/polio2.htm
see Nkuba for what OPV really does to African children
http://www.whale.to/a/genocide_opv.html
"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a
redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic
meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are
some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United
States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio
disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner8.html
Go to your medical library, and ask to see the United States Polio
Surveillance Unit's bulletins, from 1955 to 1970.
They will be listed as "missing".
Every single medical library in USA, that someone checked out for me,
and New Zealand (and possible other countries) has them listed as "missing".
There is only one place you can see them, as far as I know, and that is
in the AMA library, and they are listed as having top security clearance
requirements to see, according to someone who tried to access them.
Why might this be? When he was alive, Dr Ratner had copies of them at
his home. He gave me many of the years' data I wanted. They clearly showed
that from the inception of the SALK vaccine, to it's discontinuation, the
vaccine had MINUS efficacy and was actually causing more polio in the
vaccinated than in the unvaccinated.
Any studious person looking at Government stats in retrospect, would be
able to easily see that the polical and media canonization of SALK and his
vaccine was a mirage of duplicity upon duplicity.------Hilary Butler -[2009
April] Olmsted on Autism: Hopkins Loses Early Case File
Happy Oyster
>"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a
>redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic
>meningitis......
That is insane bullshit.
.
--
Die volle H�rte: http://www.kindersprechstunde.at
***************************************************************
Die Medienmafia � Die Regividerm-Verschw�rung
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/showtopic.php?threadid=5710
Peter Parry
>see Nkuba for what OPV really does to African children
>http://www.whale.to/a/genocide_opv.html
>
>"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a
>redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic
>meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are
>some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United
>States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio
>disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner
>http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner8.html
You really do have to rely upon some remarkable pond life don't you?
Scheiber is a retired Paleontologist of dubious ability and honesty.
She is so awful that even a Chiropractor was moved to write "Whether
it was due to personal bias, lack of relevant health science training,
or inept research on her part, or a combination, Ms. Scheibner's
claims have not withstood the test of time, or critical examination,
and should be rejected"
>vaccine was a mirage of duplicity upon duplicity.------Hilary Butler -[2009
Another unqualified self proclaimed "expert" who makes a living from
her anti-vaccination diatribes. You seem to be attracted to them like
a moth to a flame. The less they know and the louder they squeal the
more you believe in them. Really, "listed as having top security
clearance" - in the American Medical Association library? Even by
your unique standards of woo do you really think the AMA has a "top
security clearance" section in its library. Guarded no doubt by armed
guards and a genetically modified gargoyle?
john
> Scheiber is a retired Paleontologist of dubious ability and honesty.
> She is so awful that even a Chiropractor was moved to write "Whether
> it was due to personal bias, lack of relevant health science training,
> or inept research on her part, or a combination, Ms. Scheibner's
> claims have not withstood the test of time, or critical examination,
> and should be rejected"
>
what chiro was that? let me guess, that pro vaccine pharma shill.
john
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
> Another unqualified self proclaimed "expert" who makes a living from
> her anti-vaccination diatribes. You seem to be attracted to them like
> a moth to a flame. The less they know and the louder they squeal the
> more you believe in them. Really, "listed as having top security
> clearance" - in the American Medical Association library? Even by
> your unique standards of woo do you really think the AMA has a "top
> security clearance" section in its library. Guarded no doubt by armed
> guards and a genetically modified gargoyle?
You mean someone with the brains to see the vaccine hoax and devote her life
to helping its victims, on peanuts, who have been shunned by everyone else
http://www.whale.to/a/vaxvictims.html, while your lying posterboys like
Offit make 6 million at least! While taking money from vaccine companies.
Peter Parry
You are the one making extraordinary claims, yet all you can muster in
support of your claims is a tiny ragtag army of self proclaimed
specialists not one of whom has done any research in the field or has
any qualifications experience or training to do so. Do you really
expect them to be treated as credible when their only ability is to
squeal loudly?
john
> support of your claims is a tiny ragtag army of self proclaimed
> specialists not one of whom has done any research in the field or has
> any qualifications experience or training to do so. Do you really
> expect them to be treated as credible when their only ability is to
> squeal loudly?
>
While you use ad hominem, and quote some anon chiro, when you hate alt med!
While the chiros kept the NVIC afloat in its early days!
as for a ragtag army, must be 100 or so medical doctors
http://www.whale.to/m/critics.html trashing vaccination
while the rest of your so called experts are all hopelessly up to their neck
in drug company money and professional interest, like Offitt--6 million and
counting!
Peter Parry
>
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>
>> Another unqualified self proclaimed "expert" who makes a living from
>> her anti-vaccination diatribes. You seem to be attracted to them like
>> a moth to a flame. The less they know and the louder they squeal the
>> more you believe in them. Really, "listed as having top security
>> clearance" - in the American Medical Association library? Even by
>> your unique standards of woo do you really think the AMA has a "top
>> security clearance" section in its library. Guarded no doubt by armed
>> guards and a genetically modified gargoyle?
>
>You mean someone with the brains to see the vaccine hoax and devote her life
>to helping its victims,
No, someone with no education in the field, no experience and no
training. Someone who quite obviously can't understand even simple
studies and whose motto appears to be "my mind is made up - do not
confuse me with evidence". Yet again all you can put up to support
your spurious claims is another scientifically illiterate "activist".
Moreover, one with an established penchant for making less than honest
claims such as saying she was told by a leading physician he had cured
his cancer with vitamin C when no such statement had been made.
So far you have produced pamphlets from a Victorian society over a
hundred years ago and two random quotations from two utterly
unqualified noise makers.
Is this the best evidence you can produce?
Peter Parry
>
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message >
>> You are the one making extraordinary claims, yet all you can muster in
>> support of your claims is a tiny ragtag army of self proclaimed
>> specialists not one of whom has done any research in the field or has
>> any qualifications experience or training to do so. Do you really
>> expect them to be treated as credible when their only ability is to
>> squeal loudly?
>>
>
>While you use ad hominem,
As I have pointed out to you before I don't think you understand the
meaning of that phrase.
>and quote some anon chiro,
Lon Morgan, DC, DABCO
>as for a ragtag army, must be 100 or so medical doctors
>http://www.whale.to/m/critics.html trashing vaccination
Seem to be about 30 with MD or MB after their name, many of them
unfortunately appear to be dead, some for nearly a century. Some have
been entered incorrectly. Prof O'Leary is listed as a "vaccine
critic" when he is nothing of the sort. Dr Charles Shepherd is also
listed as a vaccine critic when he is not. Others are Homeopaths.
Others are a mixture of non-medical PhD holders misleadingly labeled
"Dr" and naturopaths.
Not terribly impressive, and certainly "trashing" nothing.
Happy Oyster
That is crap.
In Germany a little girl dies of SSPE, which was caused by the measles outbreak
in Northrhine-Westfalia in 2006 by anti-vaxxers.
john
Yeah, that's the one, a lone Chiro pharma shill, used to have a pathetic web
site, may still do.
Seem to be about 30 with MD or MB after their name, many of them
> unfortunately appear to be dead, some for nearly a century. Some have
> been entered incorrectly. Prof O'Leary is listed as a "vaccine
> critic" when he is nothing of the sort. Dr Charles Shepherd is also
> listed as a vaccine critic when he is not. Others are Homeopaths.
> Others are a mixture of non-medical PhD holders misleadingly labeled
> "Dr" and naturopaths.
>
> Not terribly impressive, and certainly "trashing" nothing.
>
Better than your ragtag army of pharma boys like Offit.
You missed the smallpox ones http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox_c.html
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/smallpox13.html
john
>
> Is this the best evidence you can produce?
>
Your best evidence is some lone pharma Chiro slagging off Scheibner, while
your only evidence against Butler is slagging off her alleged lack of brains
while the evidence on Whale is such that you woo brains have to invent a
logical fallacy, Scopies law, to deal with it
Peter Parry
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
> Seem to be about 30 with MD or MB after their name, many of them
>> unfortunately appear to be dead, some for nearly a century. Some have
>> been entered incorrectly. Prof O'Leary is listed as a "vaccine
>> critic" when he is nothing of the sort. Dr Charles Shepherd is also
>> listed as a vaccine critic when he is not. Others are Homeopaths.
>> Others are a mixture of non-medical PhD holders misleadingly labeled
>> "Dr" and naturopaths.
>>
>> Not terribly impressive, and certainly "trashing" nothing.
>Better than your ragtag army of pharma boys like Offit.
>
>You missed the smallpox ones http://www.whale.to/vaccine/smallpox_c.html
>http://www.whale.to/vaccines/smallpox13.html
Those are mostly from the 1870's, one from 1799. I think you will
find science has moved on a bit since then.
john
> find science has moved on a bit since then.
>
>
It's called history, and smallpox vax started around 1790's, and we all know
why you want to forget the first 100 years of that
john
> Scheiber is a retired Paleontologist of dubious ability and honesty.
that is ad hominem. And you have never proven any dishonesty, while we
document vast evidence your industry is built on it.
Peter Parry
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>> Is this the best evidence you can produce?
>Your best evidence is some lone pharma Chiro slagging off Scheibner,
He is hardly a lone voice where that particular individual is
concerned. Her writings are so replete with blatant errors that they
have been widely ridiculed. Incidentally, as you seem attached to
the phrase "Ad Hominem", what you have said above _is_ an example of
such, as are many other comments you make. A personal or Ad Hominem
attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for
evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims. This line of
"reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person
making the claim and not the claim itself.
You cannot attack what Morgan said because it is obviously and
provably correct, so you attack the individual instead. Unfortunately
this trait is all too common amongst the anti-vaccination community.
>while
>your only evidence against Butler is slagging off her alleged lack of brains
Where did I say that? You should at least attempt to read what was
said. What I criticised was her complete lack of professional
qualifications, education, training and experience. She produces
facile journalistic sound bites but no science. As with Scheibner
what she produces is riddled with error. Her various conspiracy
theories would, I assume, appeal to you but to most they are becoming
increasingly ridiculous.
>while the evidence on Whale is such that you woo brains have to invent a
>logical fallacy, Scopies law, to deal with it
There is no error of reasoning in Scopies Law. As for evidence on the
site it refers to would that be the evidence of extra-terrestrials, of
mind control via mobile phone or of "chemtrails"? Would it be the
"evidence" of Orgonite, the design of the "Holy Hand Grenade". Is it
the "evidence" that mobile phone base stations are for destroying the
atmosphere, making everyone sick and targeting individuals in
conjunction with GPS? Is it the claim that "Nutritional medicine
could replace over 98% of Allopathic medicine and cure most diseases
without any side effects like death and autism."
That your site is fascinating in a sort of gothic horror way is
undeniable, that it is a source of knowledge or science is unlikely.
On the other hand, that any lawyer would be so desperate as to quote
it in a court in support of their argument would also appear to be
rather improbable, but apparently that happened in the USA even if
they did lose their case.
Peter Parry
There are many parts of early medical history which are now
sufficiently outlandish as to have no relevance to modern medicine.
Surgery in the 1800's bears little relevance to the same skill today.
The same is true of most human endeavours.
The historical perspective is interesting of course in that it shows
how learning can develop and in particular how the scientific method
initially developed by Alhazen, Bacon and Descartes can bring about
progress.
History can inform such as when you compare the progress of
conventional medicine with its continuous learning and improvement to
that of the likes of Homeopathy where unproven ideas from the late
1700's which should long ago have been consigned to the dustbin of
history hang on being followed blindly in a quasi religious fashion
rather than evolving.
john
avoidance of the first 100 years of smallpox vax.
This is 1918 http://www.whale.to/vaccines/smallpox7.html so you can imagine
what the previous 118 years were like, and don't foget Jenner is hailed as a
hero and vax successful from day one
vaccination should have been consigned to the quackpot ideas of the 19th
century, but too much money was involved
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/smallpox20.html
and allopaths still claim an 18% death rate when Sydenham had a 2% rate in
1600's, what does that tell you about your scientific method bullshit?
and Semmelweis found out the true story of medical method
http://www.whale.to/a/semmelweis_h.html his ideas were rejected for over 10
years
just like the vitamin C cure for infections, 59 years now, so save us the
religuius medical method bullshit
"In a recent letter from Dr. A. Ward of the Pathology Department, University
of Hong Kong, in which he requests permission to use some of our findings in
his textbook on immunology, Dr. Ward states: "I again like you do not
worship Louis Pasteur and I consider Edward Jenner to be one of the great
criminals of history.' "---Dr Kalokerinos
john
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:31:16 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>
>>> Is this the best evidence you can produce?
>
>>Your best evidence is some lone pharma Chiro slagging off Scheibner,
>
> He is hardly a lone voice where that particular individual is
he is a lone voice as far as anyone without an obvious conflict of interest.
The only other one on note is Ernst. The rest have a professional and
financial interest like Offit, Orac, Barrett etc
> You cannot attack what Morgan said because it is obviously and
> provably correct, so you attack the individual instead. Unfortunately
> this trait is all too common amongst the anti-vaccination community.
Absolute bollocks. Go ahead and prove it. And talk about hyprocacy, after
you just slagged off Scheibner and Butler, but we get to expect that in
vaccine zealots. From memory Morgan did a textbook page on ad hominem re
Scheibner and the rest
>What I criticised was her complete lack of professional
> qualifications, education, training and experience. She produces
> facile journalistic sound bites but no science.
Basic ad hominem, whatever her qualifications they bear no relation to what
she actually says, quite apart from the fact she has more brains than most
of you lot put together as any perusal of her work will show anyone
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/butler3.html
>As with Scheibner
> what she produces is riddled with error. Her various conspiracy
> theories would, I assume, appeal to you but to most they are becoming
> increasingly ridiculous.
Like I said, expose what she has said and produce it, we can all say stuff
like that but prove it.
Conspiracy theory is just a buzz phrase, basic ad hominem word game
http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html
>
>>while the evidence on Whale is such that you woo brains have to invent a
>>logical fallacy, Scopies law, to deal with it
>
> There is no error of reasoning in Scopies Law. As for evidence on the
> site it refers to would that be the evidence of extra-terrestrials, of
> mind control via mobile phone or of "chemtrails"? Would it be the
> "evidence" of Orgonite, the design of the "Holy Hand Grenade". Is it
> the "evidence" that mobile phone base stations are for destroying the
> atmosphere, making everyone sick and targeting individuals in
> conjunction with GPS? Is it the claim that "Nutritional medicine
> could replace over 98% of Allopathic medicine and cure most diseases
> without any side effects like death and autism."
Simple logical fallacy, even if I believed in little green men living in my
attaic, it bears no relationship to the medical information, but that is
your main argument. As for nutritional med replacing allopathic--simple
really as any inquiring unbiased mind can see
http://www.whale.to/w/ortho.html
> That your site is fascinating in a sort of gothic horror way is
> undeniable, that it is a source of knowledge or science is unlikely.
> On the other hand, that any lawyer would be so desperate as to quote
> it in a court in support of their argument would also appear to be
> rather improbable, but apparently that happened in the USA even if
> they did lose their case.
So you say but we all know what you say that.
Happy Oyster
That is bullshit.
Peter Parry
>
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>> History can inform such as when you compare the progress of
>> conventional medicine with its continuous learning and improvement to
>> that of the likes of Homeopathy where unproven ideas from the late
>> 1700's which should long ago have been consigned to the dustbin of
>> history hang on being followed blindly in a quasi religious fashion
>> rather than evolving.
>avoidance of the first 100 years of smallpox vax.
There is nothing to avoid. Why are you so concerned about events in
the late 1800's? Had you had your appendix out in those days you
would probably have died. Should this be a cause of concern for
someone facing an appendectomy today? I can understand Homeopaths
being concerned because they still work from a textbook written in the
early 1800's but no one else does.
>This is 1918 http://www.whale.to/vaccines/smallpox7.html so you can imagine
>what the previous 118 years were like, and don't foget Jenner is hailed as a
>hero and vax successful from day one
That is because it was. It has become far more successful since then.
You need to understand that a science is a continuous process of
improvement and learning.
>and allopaths still claim an 18% death rate when Sydenham had a 2% rate in
>1600's, what does that tell you about your scientific method bullshit?
It tells me one should not rely upon partial records from 1600. Just
how complete and accurate do you think a document from 1600 is likely
to be?
>and Semmelweis found out the true story of medical method
>http://www.whale.to/a/semmelweis_h.html his ideas were rejected for over 10
>years
But eventually accepted after Pasteur, 15 years later confirmed the
germ theory. Science is not necessarily a straight track with no
bumps but it is the only way of achieving real progress.
>just like the vitamin C cure for infections, 59 years now, so save us the
>religuius medical method bullshit
Which vitamin C cure for infections is this?
>"In a recent letter from Dr. A. Ward of the Pathology Department, University
>of Hong Kong, in which he requests permission to use some of our findings in
>his textbook on immunology, Dr. Ward states: "I again like you do not
>worship Louis Pasteur and I consider Edward Jenner to be one of the great
>criminals of history.' "---Dr Kalokerinos
Even assuming this is true it is completely meaningless out of
context. Which letter? Where can it be found? What was it
discussing? Who is Dr A Ward? There is no Dr Ward listed at the
Pathology Dept at Hong Kong University, there appears to be no
textbook on immunology written by an A Ward.
We know Kalokerinos is someone who believes vaccination is a
deliberate process of genocide carried out under the auspices of the
World Health Organization and the Save the Children Fund.who, he
thinks, "put Hitler and Stalin in the shade" when it came to
deliberate and intentional mass killings. He bases his claims on the
idea that needles are reused (they are generally not) in order to
deliberately spread AIDS. Forty odd years ago he also successfully
diagnosed and treated vitamin C deficiency in Australian aboriginal
children whose "natural" diet wasn't providing sufficient.
Once again your infatuation with attacking people rather than
addressing the science is letting you down.
Peter Parry
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>> He is hardly a lone voice where that particular individual is
>
>he is a lone voice as far as anyone without an obvious conflict of interest.
I presume that for you "obvious conflict of interest" means anyone who
disagrees with you? You don't have to have any conflict of interest -
simply look it up yourself. The facts peak for themselves.
For example she states "there is no evidence whatsoever that vaccines
of any kind - but especially those against childhood diseases - are
effective in preventing the infectious diseases they are supposed to
prevent"
Talking of Pertussis vaccine she then quotes two studies from the
Faero Islands which found In both epidemics six patients of the 3,926
vaccinated died and 26 among the 1,073 unvaccinated cases died.
These figures clearly show vaccination to be effective so Scheibner
gets around this by claiming "So the vaccine seemed to provide some
degree of protection; however, the numbers of vaccinated and
unvaccinated are so different that any comparison is scientifically
invalid"
Now this statement is not merely nonsense (the sample sizes are more
than adequate and the difference between the populations is highly
significant, with a p value of <0.0001) it is actually well within her
knowledge and training as a Paleontologist. She either knew she was
making a basic error or chose to misrepresent data.
Similarly she tries to dismiss the clear effect shown in the
Whooping-cough Immunisation data from the UK in 1946-50 by claiming
the control group wasn't a proper control. She excluded mention that
in that trial report the control group infection rates were compared
with the general population and found to be similar thus defeating her
objection.
This and more is documented in Dr Bassers review of some of her work
at http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/immunise.htm
Feel free to point out where he is wrong in his assessment of
Scheibner. The most damning indictment is of course not that she errs
in matters outside her competence but that she has been found to
manipulate data she should be able to understand to produce
conclusions she must know full well are false.
is trait is all too common amongst the anti-vaccination community.
>From memory Morgan did a textbook page on ad hominem re
>Scheibner and the rest
Your memory is incorrect. Jason W. Busse, DC, MSc Lon Morgan, DC and
James B. Campbell, PhD wrote an article entitled "Chiropractic
Antivaccination Arguments" in the Journal of Manipulative and
Physiological Theraputics
<http://jmptonline.org/article/S0161-4754%2805%2900111-9/fulltext?articleId=S0899-3467%2807%2960081-0>
their criticism was of her work and in particular her
misrepresentation of the Japanese data from Cherry
>> That your site is fascinating in a sort of gothic horror way is
>> undeniable, that it is a source of knowledge or science is unlikely.
>> On the other hand, that any lawyer would be so desperate as to quote
>> it in a court in support of their argument would also appear to be
>> rather improbable, but apparently that happened in the USA even if
>> they did lose their case.
>
>So you say but we all know what you say that.
You do?
Mark Probert
> Better than your ragtag army of pharma boys like Offit.
Nope. Not possible. Offit is so knowledgeable, competent and
professional that the anti-vac liars have to sue him to try to silence
him.
He scares the cleanse right out of them.
Mark Probert
> "Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>
> > You really do have to rely upon some remarkable pond life don't you?
> > Scheiber is a retired Paleontologist of dubious ability and honesty.
>
> that is ad hominem.
No, just an accurate description.
And you have never proven any dishonesty, while we
> document vast evidence your industry is built on it.
Who is "we"?
Jan Drew
> On Dec 30, 4:34�pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> > john wrote:
> > > Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing. You'll find it at Amazon.com
> > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1413454402/wellwithinA/(besure to
> > > get 6th edition ISBN # 1413454402
>
> > Thanks for the laugh, thanks.
>
> I prefer Jib-Jab. The music is better.
Not surprised.
Jan Drew
> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gsOdnUg3hY41KqbW...@bt.com...
>
> > Good-Bye Dr. William Trebing. You'll find it
>
> Pure spam snipped
============================
Do you snip, Peter Bowditch, and Bob Officer's pure spam?
Jan Drew
> >> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:27:39 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing
> >> "applied kinesiology" and the activator method , a commercial
> >> diagnostic and treatment system based on the belief that differences
> >> in leg length indicate the need for spinal adjustments.(Please ask
> >> about your health insurance coverage when you arrange your first
> >> visit.)
>
> >> How likely is it do you think that he really has any idea (other than
> >> financial) about the subject of his book?
>
> > and you allopaths have a clue about disease theory, having only cured
> > bacterial infections?
>
> And viral, yeast and other infections, cancer, some forms of autoimmune
> disease, some forms of eye disease and HIV (1 case with a stem cell
> transplant). Greatly improved trauma and emergency care, including
> minimizing damage from heart and brain attacks (brain attacks are
> strokes). And greatly improved the lives of people with autoimmune
> diseases, diabetes, heart attack, stroke and kidney diseases. And
> prevented many diseases including diarrhea, heart attacks, stroke, and
> infectious diseases, like mumps, measles, rubella, chicken pox, Hib
> invasive disease, small pox (no cases last several years), etc.
>
> So, allopaths have done far more than just cure bacterial infections.
>
> How about some evidence that conjecture-based medicine (aka, alternative
> medicine, con-med) has done much to help people? Like the millions of
> lives saved by vaccines every year?
>
> > and save us the financial spiel, seeing as you lot turn over trillions every
> > year
>
> The con-med industry is a multibillion doolar industry itself. The
> difference between allopathic medicine and con-med is that allopathy works.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
How about your evidence that you are a practicing doctor?????
A current copy of your medical license will do nicely.
Jan Drew
wrote:
> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> >"dr_jeff" <u...@msu.edu> wrote in message
>
> >> The con-med industry is a multibillion doolar industry itself. The
> >> difference between allopathic medicine and con-med is that allopathy
> >> works.
>
>
> >talk about seeing yourself in othershttp://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html
>
> Scopie's Law. Everybody laugh.
>
> --
> Peter Bowditch aa #2243
> The Millenium Projecthttp://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australasian Science
Autism's False Prophets : Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search
for a Cure by Paul A. Offit
Bad Science by Ben Goldacre
Cosmos Magazine
Extraordinary Popular Delusions & the Madness of Crowds by Charles
MacKay
Higher Superstition : The Academic Left and Its Quarrels With Science
by Paul R. Gross and Norman Levitt
Science and Religion : Are They Compatible? by Paul Kurtz, Barry Karr
and Ranjit Sandhu (Editors)
The Sins of Scripture by John Shelby Spong
Superstition : Belief in the Age of Science by Robert Park
Voodoo Science : The Road from Foolishness to Fraud by Robert Park
> Australian Council Against Health Fraudhttp://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.acahf.org.au/books/index.html
> To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Spamming again. Wonder if the fake Peter B, and Bob Officer will post
anything??
Jan Drew
> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 00:44:27 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> >"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
> >> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:28:59 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"According to a survey made in 1946
>
> >> Would that have been a "survey" carried out one lunchtime by a
> >> chiropractor by any chance, or possibly one which came to McBean in a
> >> trance?
>
> >Cured polio which was more than you allopaths could do, apart fromt he fact
> >you were mostly causing it
>
> There is no evidence that any bonewaggler has ever cured a single case
> of Polio. �Your claim seems to be based upon a "survey" in 1946 yet
> you are unable to identify this survey, name who carried it out or
> produce a copy. �The only "source" appears to this one quote from a
> discredited naturopath with an apparently fake degree.
>
> >She was right though
>
> I suspect the only thing she was ever right about was the amount in
> her bank account.
Do learn to post correctly.
Not Found
The requested message, 7o8qj5t5oj5lior4h...@4ax.com,
could not be found.
Jan Drew
>
> >> Scopie's Law is not a logical fallacy.
>
> >Oh, tell us how it isn't, that should raise a few laughs
>
> All I have to do to demonstrate to someone who knows something about
> logic is to quote the law:
>
> "In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a
> credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
> laughed out of the room"
>
> --
> Peter Bowditch
snip lies, and spam.
Jan Drew
> >> credible source loses you the argument immediately ...and gets you
> >> laughed out of the room"
>
> > as you could possibly get, and just ad hominem essentially. � But that is
> > what you are reduced to when you have absolutely no argument to refute the
> > documents on whale.
>
> I agree with Peter Bodwitch.
Of course you do. Proving me to be 100% correct the *gang* stick
together, and lie for each other.
Thanks, NOT dr.
The evidence is so stupid and flimsey and
> so poor, that suggesting that the whale.to site is a good source of
> evidence is evidence that the person making the claim has very little
> knowledge in the fields of science, evidence and medicine.
>
> John may believe otherwise. It's his choice to ignore good science and
> support the utter crap on the whale.to site.
>
> Jeff
Oh, my. Another personal attack.
Jan Drew
> >>>as you could possibly get, and just ad hominem essentially. � But that is
> >>>what you are reduced to when you have absolutely no argument to refute the
> >>>documents on whale.
>
>
> >you first, explain Scopies law
>
> http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Scopie's_Law
LOL!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Risk_disclaimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Legal_disclaimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_disclaimer
>
> Peter Bowditch
Jan Drew
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 23:27:19 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
> >see Nkuba for what OPV really does to African children
> >http://www.whale.to/a/genocide_opv.html
>
> >"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a
> >redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic
> >meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are
> >some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United
> >States alone. �That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio
> >disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner
> >http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner8.html
>
> You really do have to rely upon some remarkable pond life don't you?
> Scheiber is a retired Paleontologist of dubious ability and honesty.
> it was due to personal bias, lack of relevant health science training,
> or inept research on her part, or a combination, Ms. Scheibner's
> claims have not withstood the test of time, or critical examination,
> and should be rejected"
>
> >vaccine was a mirage of duplicity upon duplicity.------Hilary Butler -[2009
Oh, yes. She is on QuackQuack's sick list.
http://www.whale.to/m/butler15.html
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/eletters/123/6/1446
Conflict of interest
none declared.
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,370,000 for Hilary Butler AMA. (0.36
seconds)
Jan Drew
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 18:18:50 -0000, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
Des Coll
> the smallpox vax is as ludricous as Scopies law
> http://www.whale.to/a/smallpox_hoax.html
> now you know why allopathy is considered a church
> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/god.html
How do you explain the eradication of Smallpox then??? How do you explain people with HIV infection and ZERO detectable virus in their blood??? Finally, read this, it explains to teenagers how to identify a good source from a BAD source: https://www.transkills.admin.cam.ac.uk/resources/biological-sciences-resources/biological-sciences-academic-writing/biological-sciences-0-0 Don't be put off due it's target audience, University of Cambridge freshers, it's well written and intended to be useful to most anybody. Except of course, those who don't know about "Occam's Razor" or have an astonishing level of "Confirmation Bias". Look it up, it's downed airliners!!!