Could This 'Forbidden Medicine' Eliminate the Need for Drugs?
john
Could This 'Forbidden Medicine' Eliminate the Need for Drugs?
Posted by: Dr. Mercola
December 22 2009 | 175,341 views
Amy L. Lansky, PhD
www.impossiblecure.com
Perhaps the most derided of alternative medicines is my own favorite -
homeopathy. Over the past few years, detractors have focused their efforts
in the United Kingdom and have succeeded in crippling homeopathic hospitals
and clinics funded by the National Health Service, as well as the practices
of many homeopaths.
A few well-placed editorials in prominent newspapers have done the trick,
despite the fact that Prince Charles and the rest of the royal family are
ardent supporters of homeopathy.
It now seems that some of these folks are taking their show on the road.
Two key UK players, Michael Baum and Edzard Ernst have published a
commentary in the November 2009 issue of the American Journal of Medicine
[1] in which they state, "a belief in homeopathy exceeds the tolerance of an
open mind. We should start from the premise that homeopathy cannot work and
that positive evidence reflects publication bias or design flaws until
proved otherwise."
Not surprisingly, their commentary also reflects a complete ignorance of
homeopathy and the range of studies that support its effectiveness. For
example, their article incorrectly uses the term "potentation" instead of
"potentization" for the method used to create homeopathic remedies (more on
this later). The authors also insist on citing a single negative
meta-analysis study that has already been shown to be methodologically
flawed [2], while ignoring many positive studies in respected publications,
including two other meta-analyses that showed positive results [3�8].
So why do the skeptics love to hate homeopathy? Perhaps because it is one
of the most threatening alternative modalities - financially,
philosophically, and therapeutically. Actually, homeopathy has been a threat
to allopathy ever since the 1800s, when German physician Samuel Hahnemann
developed the homeopathic system.
Founder of Homeopathy
Hahnemann, a respected doctor and chemist who helped to pioneer the
importance of hygiene as well as homeopathy, was forced to move frequently
during his life because the local German apothecaries objected to the fact
that he created his own medicines rather than use theirs.
A fierce battle was also waged against homeopathy in the United States
during the 1800s, where homeopathy had achieved a strong presence by 1840.
In fact, in 1847, the American Medical Association (AMA) was formed
specifically to fight the battle against homeopathy.
Most homeopaths of the 1800s were former allopaths who had abandoned their
brethren because they found Hahnemann's system to be more successful in
battling cholera, typhus, yellow fever, diptheria, influenza, and other
epidemics of the 1800s. In retaliation, the preamble to the AMA's charter
forbade its members to associate with homeopaths or to use their medicines,
and many doctors were expelled for failing to comply.
But does homeopathy really pose such a threat to conventional medicine
today? To see how the little David of homeopathy could take down the Goliath
of big pharma, we need to take a closer look at what homeopathy is all
about.
Like Cures Like - - Law of Similars
Homeopathic practice is based on a single law of therapeutics called the
Law of Similars. This law states that a substance that can cause the
symptoms of a disease can also cure it. In fact, that's exactly what word
"homeopathy" means: similar ("homeo") suffering ("pathy"). For example, one
reason that the remedy Coffea Cruda (made from coffee) can be curative for
insomnia is that coffee can cause sleeplessness. Interestingly, allopaths
sometimes utilize the Law of Similars, but are unaware of it when they do
and are perplexed by the phenomenon.
Ask any conventional doctor why Ritalin (a substance that would normally
cause hyperactivity) can treat hyperactivity in children, and they'll
scratch their heads in confusion. Ask a homeopath, and it's a no-brainer:
the Law of Similars.
The reason why homeopaths run into trouble with the skeptics, though,
revolves around how homeopathic remedies are prepared. Obviously, many of
the substances that can cause the symptoms of disease are toxic. This
inherent toxicity poses a challenge if you want to administer these
substances safely.
In an effort to deal with this problem, Hahnemann tried various methods of
diluting his medicines so that they would become less harmful to his
patients. This proved unsuccessful until he also incorporated vigorous
shaking or succussion into the process. The result was a method that he
called potentization, in which a substance is serially diluted and succussed
over and over.
Much to Hahnemann's own surprise, these ultradilutions - so dilute that
they cannot possibly contain a single molecule of the original substance -
were still potent therapeutically. In fact, they were even more potent than
low levels of dilution.
Of course, this was and still is too much for the skeptics to bear. It
turns much of accepted science on its head!
What the skeptics keep ignoring, however, are an increasing number of
scientific studies that indicate that some kind of signature of the original
substance is embedded in a potentized ultradilution. In a 2007 paper by
Professor Rustom Roy, the founding director of the Materials Research
Laboratory at Penn State and one of the world's leading experts on the
structure of water, it was demonstrated that lab instruments could pick up
energetic signatures in ultradilutions that were not only specific to
individual homeopathic remedies, but to specific potencies of these remedies
[9, 10].
Indeed, science has backed up the phenomenon of potentization for over 20
years. In 1988, Nobel Prize nominee and medical researcher Jacques
Benveniste turned the course of his life upside down when he discovered that
ultradilutions could retain substance-specific properties. In particular, he
found that a certain antibody could be serially diluted and succussed beyond
the point where a single molecule could remain, but still cause the same
effects [11].
Naturally, the skeptics quickly attacked Benveniste. But he continued his
work and further demonstrated that the electromagnetic signature of an
ultradilution could be recorded electronically, transmitted via Email,
replayed into water, and still achieve the same substance-specific effects
in the laboratory [12]. Eventually, Benveniste's results were replicated
[13]. Most recently, a 2009 paper by Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier
underscored the power of ultradilutions too [14].
Drug Companies are Running Scared
Now think about it. This is what big pharma is scared of.
What if an expensive drug could be potentized to create billions of
effective doses at essentially no cost? It would destroy big pharma
entirely. Medicines that cost essentially nothing? Nontoxic ultradiluted
medicines that cause fewer side effects? How could the coffers of big pharma
be sustained? Forget about the Law of Similars. It's potentization - the
process of creating effective ultradilutions - that big pharma is scared of!
No wonder Baum and Ernst got the word "potentization" wrong. This one word
is the small stone that could take Goliath down.
Of course, homeopaths add fuel to the fire. The fundamental philosophy of
homeopathy implies that the primary tools of allopathy are harmful. In
particular, homeopaths believe that suppressing symptoms with anti-pathic
drugs - drugs that oppose the symptoms of a disease rather than mimic them -
cannot cure and can even do harm. If a symptom is suppressed - for example,
if a seasonal allergy is suppressed by an antihistamine - it is only
temporarily palliated.
A patient still has allergic tendencies and his or her symptoms will
eventually return. That's why suppressive drugs must be taken again and
again. And of course, big pharma loves that! It's good for business.
Deceptive Cures
Unfortunately, if a substance succeeds in completely suppressing a
symptom, there may be an illusion of "cure," but the real result is more
sinister. Another key tenet of homeopathy is that the true result of
suppression is a deepening of the underlying disease state - because the
energy of the disease is now forced to manifest in a more serious way.
That's why repeated application of cortisone cream to eczema can lead to
asthma. That's why the suppression of arthritis pain can lead to heart
disease. That's why teenagers who take acne drugs sometimes develop suicidal
depression.
Doctors call this phenomenon a "side effect" or a "natural disease
progression." But that's because they don't understand the effects of
suppression or the signs of true cure.
Over the past two hundred years, homeopaths have discovered that
homeopathic medicines - drugs that mimic a person's symptoms rather than
oppose them - can lead to genuine cure of chronic disease, not mere
palliation or suppression. Rather than creating a deeper disease, a
homeopathic medicine that is similar to a patient's disease can not only
cure it, but reveal previously suppressed layers of disease that can be
treated too.
That's why good homeopathic treatment can often cure asthma - and also
reveal and treat previously suppressed eczema. That's why it has the
potential to cure arthritis and chronic bladder infections, not simply
palliate them with endless medications. Indeed, homeopathy can effectively
treat acute diseases like influenza and bacterial infections too. With its
ability to successfully treat both chronic and acute disease with low-cost
medicines, homeopathy really could be a threat to big pharma, given half a
chance.
Ideal for Poor Countries or Rich Ones with Declining Economies
Poor countries with less access to expensive drugs have already discovered
this. That's why homeopathy is the second most widespread form of medicine
in the world. In India, homeopathy is a full-fledged medical system with its
own medical schools and hospitals. Homeopaths in India successfully treat
the full range of diseases, including AIDS, cancer, and malaria.
In Cuba, a poor country with a health care system that often does better
than our own, homeopathy is being used more and more. In 2008, 2.5 million
Cubans were given a homeopathic remedy to prevent Leptospirosis, an
infectious disease also known as swamp fever.
This disease has plagued the country for several years in the aftermath of
flooding, but the year in which homeopathy was used, in contrast to previous
years, there were no fatalities and very few cases of the disease [15].
But here's the rub. Homeopathy is harder to practice than allopathy. There
are no cookie-cutter cures, especially for chronic disease. (Luckily,
however, effective treatment of epidemic diseases like the flu is easier;
see Resources.) Each patient's health pattern is unique, so each patient
must be treated as an individual.
A homeopath must find a single remedy (among thousands of possible
homeopathic remedies) whose associated symptoms match those of the patient -
not just their main complaint, but their entire symptom picture that
includes emotional, mental, behavioral, as well as the physical symptoms of
the entire body. It's a daunting task. A practitioner who practices
classical homeopathy (the kind of homeopathy I advocate) typically needs at
least two hours for an initial case interview and may spend just as long
deciding upon a remedy.
And sometimes it takes a homeopath several tries to find just the right
remedy - the one that homeopaths call the simillimum. This process also
requires patients to engage in their own treatment, because symptoms are
gathered not by machines or by using tests, but through direct communication
between patient and homeopath.
Of course, this is not something big pharma, conventional doctors, or
insurance companies would be happy about. No expensive medicines or tests or
equipment needed? No five-minute appointments reimbursed at $300 a shot? A
medical system that requires long appointments, time for case analysis, and
patients who must participate in the healing process? Not very lucrative.
How I Broke Out of the Mold and Reliance on Failed Medical Therapies
Of course, I used to be a lover of conventional medicine like most people.
Back in the early 1990s, my husband Steve Rubin and I were both computer
researchers in Silicon Valley and followed our doctors' instructions
obediently, loading our kids up with every recommended vaccine on schedule.
Our allopathic trance began to break in 1994 when our 3-year-old son Max
began to show signs of autism.
I first read about homeopathy in the January 1995 issue of Mothering
Magazine, which contained an article about the successful homeopathic
treatment of ADD and other children's behavioral problems [16]. Steve and I
decided to give it a try and found a practitioner in our area. Within a week
we began to see small and subtle improvement in Max - improvement that
became a slow and steady trend. After two years of treatment, he was testing
normally and was released from eligibility for special education benefits.
His speech and language therapist told the county representative that she
had never seen an autistic child recover like Max had, and she fully
credited homeopathy for his recovery. By the time he was eight, nearly all
signs of Max's autism were gone. Today he is 18, a freshman at a leading
university, completely autism free, and without restrictions of any kind.
Needless to say, this experience was both mind-boggling and
life-transforming. I began to study homeopathy myself and ultimately wrote
what became the best-selling patient education book in the USA - Impossible
Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy [17] - a comprehensive introduction to
homeopathic history, philosophy, science, and experience, sprinkled with
dozens first-person cure stories for a variety of ailments, along with a
chapter about Max's cure.
In the end, I left my work in computer science and devoted myself to
letting others know about the healing powers of homeopathy. I got involved
in the successful campaign for health freedom legislation in California too
[18]. Steve also got involved and developed the National Vaccine Information
Center's online interface to the VAERS database [19] (the CDC's public
record of vaccine injuries). I guess Max's healing led us both to become
alternative medicine activists, and we haven't looked back.
Conclusion
So why not take a look at homeopathy for yourself? Make it your New Year's
resolution to find a good classical practitioner and to learn more about
this amazing medical modality. The skeptics manage to create a lot of smoke
in an effort to hide homeopathy from public view. But where there's smoke,
there's fire. Find out about how this powerful healing system - a system
that packs a lot of firepower into an infinitesimal punch - can help you and
your family.
Resources
(1) Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy - www.impossiblecure.com.
This website includes: book ordering information; autism help page; free
archive of Amy's show on AutismOne Radio - There's Hope with Homeopathy;
Cure Stories Database; helpful links.
(2) National Center for Homeopathy - www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org.
Leading open-membership organization for homeopathy in the USA that
organizes the yearly national conference. Membership buys a quarterly
magazine, Homeopathy Today, monthly eNewsetter, online chats with leading
experts, extensive online resources and social network. Website includes
many free resources, including practitioner and resource referrals lists and
flu treatment information.
References
[1] Baum, Michael and Edzard Ernst, " Should We Maintain an Open Mind
about Homeopathy?" The American Journal of Medicine, Vol. 122, No. 11, pp.
973-974 (November 2009).
[2] Shang, A. et al. " Are the Clinical Effects of Homeopathy Placebo
Effects? Comparative Study of Placebo-Controlled Trials of Homeopathy and
Allopathy," The Lancet, 366, pp. 726-732 (2005).
An extensive refutation of the results of this study, including
statistical analyses and evidence of foul-play, can be found here
[3] Linde, K. et al. " Are the Clinical Effects of Homoeopathy Placebo
Effects? A Meta-Analysis of Placebo-Controlled Trials," The Lancet, 250, pp.
834-843 (1997).
[4] Kleijnen, J. et al. "Clinical Trials of Homeopathy," British Medical
Journal, 302, pp. 316-323 (1991).
[5] Jacobs, J. et al. " Treatment of Acute Childhood Diarrhea with
Homeopathic Medicine: A Randomized Clinical Trial in Nicaragua," Pediatrics,
Vol. 83, No. 5, pp. 719-725 (1994).
[6] Bell, I.R. et al. " Improved Clinical Status in Fibromyalgia Patients
Treated with Individualized Homeopathic Remedies Versus Placebo,"
Rheumatology, 2004b; 43 (5):577-82.
[7] Taylor, M.A. et al. "Randomised Controlled Trial of Homoeopathy Versus
Placebo in Perennial Allergic Rhinitis with Overview of Four Trial Series,"
British Medical Journal, 321, pp. 471-476 (2000).
[8] For more trials, see www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org (under
Articles, click Research).
[9] Rao, et al. "The Defining Role of Structure (Including Epitaxy) in the
Plausibility of Homeopathy," Homeopathy, 96, pp. 175-182 (2007).
[10] Rao, et. Al. " Characterization of the Structure of Ultra Dilute Sols
with Remarkable Biological Properties," Materials Letters, Vol. 62, Issues
10-11, pp. 1487-1490 (2008).
[11] Davenas, et al. " Human Basophil Degranulation Triggered by Very
Dilute Antiserum Againt IgE," Nature, Vol. 333, No. 6176, pp. 816-818
(1988).
[12] Aissa, J. et al. " Transatlantic Transfer of Digitized Antigen Signal
by Telephone Link," Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, 99:S175
(1997).
[13] Brown, V. and M. Ennis. " Flow-Cytometric Analysis of Basophil
Activation: Inhibition by Histamine at Conventional and Homeopathic
Concentrations," Inflammation Research, 50, Supplement (2), S47-S48 (2001).
[14] Montagnier, Luc, et al. " Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by
Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences," Insterdiscip
Sci Comput Life Sci, 1:81-90 (2009).
[15]
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/successful-use-of-homeopathy-in-over-5-million-people-reported-from-cuba/
[16] Reichenberg-Ullman, J. " A Homeopathic Approach to Behavioral
Problems," Mothering, Number 74, pp. 97-101 (1995).
[17] Lansky, Amy. Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy. R.L. Ranch
Press (2003).
[18] www.californiahealthfreedom.com.
[19]www.medalerts.org.
About the Author
Amy L. Lansky, PhD was a Silicon Valley computer scientist when her life
was transformed by the miraculous homeopathic cure of her son's autism. In
April 2003 she published Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy, one of
the best-selling books on homeopathy in the USA (www.impossiblecure.com).
Amy is an executive board member of the National Center for Homeopathy (
www.nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org). She speaks and writes internationally
about homeopathy and hosts a monthly radio show on Autism One Radio
(www.autismone.org).
dr_jeff
It's not the law of similars. It's that there is not enough dopamine in
the brain. Ritalin causes dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine to be
released from the neurons. Read up on your brain science.
> The reason why homeopaths run into trouble with the skeptics, though,
> revolves around how homeopathic remedies are prepared. Obviously, many of
> the substances that can cause the symptoms of disease are toxic. This
> inherent toxicity poses a challenge if you want to administer these
> substances safely.
No. That's not it.
> In an effort to deal with this problem, Hahnemann tried various methods of
> diluting his medicines so that they would become less harmful to his
> patients. This proved unsuccessful until he also incorporated vigorous
> shaking or succussion into the process. The result was a method that he
> called potentization, in which a substance is serially diluted and succussed
> over and over.
That's it. If you keep diluting the substance, then you end up with
maybe on molecule in the most dilute concentration. This is supposed to
be the strongest concentration.
Homeopaths will argue that there is some sort of molecular memory left
in the water. If this were the case, then I would die of toxicity when I
accidently swallow some water in a swimming pool. And I would fall
asleep from the caffiene in ocean water (the caffeine is excreted by the
kidneys and eventually ends up in the ocean).
> Much to Hahnemann's own surprise, these ultradilutions - so dilute that
> they cannot possibly contain a single molecule of the original substance -
> were still potent therapeutically. In fact, they were even more potent than
> low levels of dilution.
>
> Of course, this was and still is too much for the skeptics to bear. It
> turns much of accepted science on its head!
That would be true if homeopathy works. It doesn't. It total nonsense
with no basis in science. And no evidence it works from good clinical
trials.
> What the skeptics keep ignoring, however, are an increasing number of
> scientific studies that indicate that some kind of signature of the original
> substance is embedded in a potentized ultradilution. In a 2007 paper by
> Professor Rustom Roy, the founding director of the Materials Research
> Laboratory at Penn State and one of the world's leading experts on the
> structure of water, it was demonstrated that lab instruments could pick up
> energetic signatures in ultradilutions that were not only specific to
> individual homeopathic remedies, but to specific potencies of these remedies
> [9, 10].
> Indeed, science has backed up the phenomenon of potentization for over 20
> years. In 1988, Nobel Prize nominee and medical researcher Jacques
> Benveniste turned the course of his life upside down when he discovered that
> ultradilutions could retain substance-specific properties. In particular, he
> found that a certain antibody could be serially diluted and succussed beyond
> the point where a single molecule could remain, but still cause the same
> effects [11].
>
>
> Naturally, the skeptics quickly attacked Benveniste. But he continued his
> work and further demonstrated that the electromagnetic signature of an
> ultradilution could be recorded electronically, transmitted via Email,
> replayed into water, and still achieve the same substance-specific effects
> in the laboratory [12]. Eventually, Benveniste's results were replicated
> [13]. Most recently, a 2009 paper by Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier
> underscored the power of ultradilutions too [14].
This paper had nothing to do with homeopathy, but with the physical
properties of DNA molecules.
> Drug Companies are Running Scared
>
>
> Now think about it. This is what big pharma is scared of.
>
> What if an expensive drug could be potentized to create billions of
> effective doses at essentially no cost?
They would sell it for lots of money. Big Pharma is not scared of this
at all. They would love for it to work. Simple and cheap to make. No FDA
worries (homepathy has been grandfathered in so that no FDA approval is
needed). Lots of income.
<rest of copyrighted crap deleted>
Jeff
Mark Probert
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
>
> Could This 'Forbidden Medicine' Eliminate the Need for Drugs?
> Posted by: Dr. Mercola
> December 22 2009 | 175,341 views
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/mercola_sells_the_delusion_of_homeopathy.php
Peter Bowditch
>Most recently, a 2009 paper by Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier
>underscored the power of ultradilutions too [14].
> [14] Montagnier, Luc, et al. " Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by
>Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences," Insterdiscip
>Sci Comput Life Sci, 1:81-90 (2009).
Yet this paper is not indexed in PubMed. In fact, the only paper by
Luc Montagnier indexed in PubMed in 2009 is his 2008 Nobel Lecture,
which does not contain the word "dilution" even once.
The referenced paper (which doesn't seem to have appeared in any
journal fit for indexing in PubMed) seems to have no applicability to
homeoquackery, except in the minds of people desperate to find
evidence to support their delusions.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan Drew
Amy L. Lansky, PhD
Founder of Homeopathy
The reason why homeopaths run into trouble with the skeptics,
though,
revolves around how homeopathic remedies are prepared. Obviously, many
of
the substances that can cause the symptoms of disease are toxic. This
inherent toxicity poses a challenge if you want to administer these
substances safely.
In an effort to deal with this problem, Hahnemann tried various
methods of
diluting his medicines so that they would become less harmful to his
patients. This proved unsuccessful until he also incorporated
vigorous
shaking or succussion into the process. The result was a method that
he
called potentization, in which a substance is serially diluted and
succussed
over and over.
Much to Hahnemann's own surprise, these ultradilutions - so dilute
that
they cannot possibly contain a single molecule of the original
substance -
were still potent therapeutically. In fact, they were even more potent
than
low levels of dilution.
Of course, this was and still is too much for the skeptics to bear.
It
turns much of accepted science on its head!
Drug Companies are Running Scared
Now think about it. This is what big pharma is scared of.
What if an expensive drug could be potentized to create billions of
Deceptive Cures
Resources
References
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/successful-use-of-...
Jan Drew
, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
Could This 'Forbidden Medicine' Eliminate the Need for Drugs?
Posted by: Dr. Mercola
December 22 2009 | 175,341 views
Amy L. Lansky, PhD
Founder of Homeopathy
Deceptive Cures
Resources
References
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/successful-use-of-...
Jan Drew
"john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
Could This 'Forbidden Medicine' Eliminate the Need for Drugs?
Amy L. Lansky, PhD
Founder of Homeopathy
[13]. Most recently, a 2009 paper by Nobel Prize winner Luc
Montagnier
underscored the power of ultradilutions too [14].
Deceptive Cures
Resources
References
[14] Montagnier, Luc, et al. " Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced
by
Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences,"
Insterdiscip
Sci Comput Life Sci, 1:81-90 (2009).
[15]
http://homeopathyresource.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/successful-use-of-...
Mark Probert
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
>
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/mercola_sells_the_delusion_...
Peter B
"Jan Drew" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9ea505b7-25ca-427a...@j42g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them to
be misleading at best.
Peter B
PeterB - Original
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
spammer. You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors. You can
find yourself in the "Warning" post, at http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e
Peter B
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:ebf55065-c319-4bda...@q2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
===========================================================
Incorrect, you'll notice he is not an active participant. He also lets
you take all the body punches for his mistakes.
Sadly I am not in that cough, warning post, nor do I have any sponsors.
No direct ties to anyone other than my family.
dr_jeff
> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
>> Most recently, a 2009 paper by Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier
>> underscored the power of ultradilutions too [14].
>
>> [14] Montagnier, Luc, et al. " Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by
>> Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences," Insterdiscip
>> Sci Comput Life Sci, 1:81-90 (2009).
>
> Yet this paper is not indexed in PubMed. In fact, the only paper by
> Luc Montagnier indexed in PubMed in 2009 is his 2008 Nobel Lecture,
> which does not contain the word "dilution" even once.
>
> The referenced paper (which doesn't seem to have appeared in any
> journal fit for indexing in PubMed) seems to have no applicability to
> homeoquackery, except in the minds of people desperate to find
> evidence to support their delusions.
I don't know or care if it is in pubmed. You're also correct that it has
nothing to do with homeopathy. It is about the physical properties of a
DNA molecule.
Jef
dr_jeff
> On Dec 25, 9:48 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:856d36d0-b492-47a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>>
>> John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them to
>> be misleading at best.
>
> John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
> spammer.
John has not posted any noteworthy articles, IMHO. Of course, my
standards are based on science and not nonsense.
> You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
> attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors.
Can you please tell who those sponsors are? I would love to get some of
that money!
> You can
> find yourself in the "Warning" post, at http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e
I am proud to see myself there under promoting evidence-based (or
science-based) medicine and showing that conjecture-based medicine
(i.e., altnerative and complementary medicine).
That article is incorrect, however. It states that most chemotherapy is
not helpful in the majority of cancers. However, most people who have
cancer will have a 5-year disease-free survival. This is often
considered a cure. In addition, this is a big deal to their families.
Imagine that a grandparent of a 7-year-old kid learns he has CML. Now,
with Gleevec, the grandparent may only live 5 years (vs. 1 year without
it). The child and his parents will have the grandparent for 4
additional priceless years.
I find the pile-on comment funny, too. The fact is that most natural
methods are not proven. And, they don't work.
The fact is that this group is "sci.med" which means science and
medicine. That is what this group is about. Not conjecture-based medicine.
Jeff
Happy Oyster
<p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years
Yes. Rubbish he posted. Very noteworthy, indeed.
.
--
Die volle H�rte: http://www.kindersprechstunde.at
***************************************************************
Die Medienmafia � Die Regividerm-Verschw�rung
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/showtopic.php?threadid=5710
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:ebf55065-c319-4bda...@q2g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 25, 9:48 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:856d36d0-b492-47a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> > John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them
> > to
> > be misleading at best.
>
> John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
> spammer. You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
> attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors. You can
> ===========================================================
> Incorrect, you'll notice he is not an active participant.
Anyone who posts is a participant regardless of their desire to engage
with morons like yourself.
> He also lets
> you take all the body punches for his mistakes.
Based on your posting history, you would not have the mental capacity
to uncover such mistakes were they to occur. Besides, if I disagree
with a point made or a premise and its conclusion, I make it known
regardless whose it is.
> Sadly I am not in that cough, warning post, nor do I have any sponsors.
> No direct ties to anyone other than my family.
Sure, you would say that.
Peter B
=================================================
He also lets you take all the body punches for his mistakes.
> Sadly I am not in that cough, warning post, nor do I have any
> sponsors.
> No direct ties to anyone other than my family.
Sure, you would say that.
================================================
Then why waste your time lying?
PeterB - Original
> PeterB - Original wrote:
> > On Dec 25, 9:48 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> >> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:856d36d0-b492-47a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> >> John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them to
> >> be misleading at best.
>
> > John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
> > spammer.
>
> John has not posted any noteworthy articles, IMHO. Of course, my
> standards are based on science and not nonsense.
Is that why you fail to produce a shred of scientific evidence when
challenged to do so? John cites articles from sources you spuriously
claim are not to be trusted, while refusing to back your own claims
with any published science whatsoever.
> > You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
> > attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors.
>
> Can you please tell who those sponsors are? I would love to get some of
> that money!
Should I be skeptical that you claim to represent the interests of
industry pro bono?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14348176/
> > You can
> > find yourself in the "Warning" post, athttp://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e
>
> I am proud to see myself there under promoting evidence-based (or
> science-based) medicine and showing that conjecture-based medicine
> (i.e., altnerative and complementary medicine).
Your incomplete sentence fails to make a credible point, I suspect on
purpose. I will respond to it on the basis of what it seems to say.
Applications in nutritional science, and to some extent in use of
herbal medicine, are scientifically supported approaches that predate
use of synthetic medicine, as any honest review of the medical
literature proves. Thousands of such scientific articles have been
cited here on mha and other newsgroups over the years. Your own
promotion of "evidence-based medicine," however, has been curiously
absent such citations, and the reason is obvious. The patent-based
model of medicine has no meaningful or credible scientific basis.
> That article is incorrect, however. It states that most chemotherapy is
> not helpful in the majority of cancers.
That was proven after a review of data by Germany's Dr. Ulrich Abel,
and published in his book, "Chemotherapy of Advanced Epithelial
Cancer." In brief, he compiled survival times in patients treated for
the most common and fatal adenocarcinomas, including breast and colon
cancer. He found that small-cell lung cancer was the "only carcinoma
for which good direct evidence of a survival improvement by
chemotherapy exists." Unfortunately, the survival improvement he
noted was only three months, not a compelling reason to endure the
life-changing and brutal effects of chemotherapy. You've been asked
before to produce a published source to support your counter claim,
but you came up short. And here again, nothing.
> However, most people who have
> cancer will have a 5-year disease-free survival. This is often
> considered a cure.
That is typically based on earlier detection, meaning you don't live
any longer but are aware of your disease sooner. Another of the
pharmaceutical industry's dirty little tricks designed to conceal the
failure of chemotherapy drugs. If I'm wrong, where is your published
science?
> In addition, this is a big deal to their families.
Earlier detection just means people have stress for longer while
enduring a harsh "treatment" that doesn't extend life.
> Imagine that a grandparent of a 7-year-old kid learns he has CML. Now,
> with Gleevec, the grandparent may only live 5 years (vs. 1 year without
> it). The child and his parents will have the grandparent for 4
> additional priceless years.
You disagreed that *most* cancers are not effectively treated using
such drugs, however Chronic myeloid leukaemia is very rare. Yes, the
drug appears to effectively extend life in those with CML, though it a
very dangerous drug. This example, however, does not support your
argument since CML is not common.
> I find the pile-on comment funny, too. The fact is that most natural
> methods are not proven. And, they don't work.
Give me a list of such methods that you think are not proven. You
can't do it, can you?
> The fact is that this group is "sci.med" which means science and
> medicine. That is what this group is about. Not conjecture-based medicine.
So stop conjecturing, Dr. Doo-LITTLE.
PeterB - Original
Say hi to your sponsors for me, pharmnut wannabe.
dr_jeff
> On Dec 26, 9:41 am, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
>> PeterB - Original wrote:
>>> On Dec 25, 9:48 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>>>> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:856d36d0-b492-47a1...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>>>> John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them to
>>>> be misleading at best.
>>> John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
>>> spammer.
>> John has not posted any noteworthy articles, IMHO. Of course, my
>> standards are based on science and not nonsense.
>
> Is that why you fail to produce a shred of scientific evidence when
> challenged to do so? John cites articles from sources you spuriously
> claim are not to be trusted, while refusing to back your own claims
> with any published science whatsoever.
That's utter bull. If you do a search of my posts, you will see that I
do support my views with science.
>>> You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
>>> attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors.
>> Can you please tell who those sponsors are? I would love to get some of
>> that money!
>
> Should I be skeptical that you claim to represent the interests of
> industry pro bono?
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14348176/
I represent one person, me.
>>> You can
>>> find yourself in the "Warning" post, athttp://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e
>> I am proud to see myself there under promoting evidence-based (or
>> science-based) medicine and showing that conjecture-based medicine
>> (i.e., altnerative and complementary medicine).
>
> Your incomplete sentence fails to make a credible point, I suspect on
> purpose. I will respond to it on the basis of what it seems to say.
> Applications in nutritional science, and to some extent in use of
> herbal medicine, are scientifically supported approaches that predate
> use of synthetic medicine, as any honest review of the medical
> literature proves.
So back *your* claims of this.
> Thousands of such scientific articles have been
> cited here on mha and other newsgroups over the years. Your own
> promotion of "evidence-based medicine," however, has been curiously
> absent such citations, and the reason is obvious. The patent-based
> model of medicine has no meaningful or credible scientific basis.
Totally false.
>> That article is incorrect, however. It states that most chemotherapy is
>> not helpful in the majority of cancers.
>
> That was proven after a review of data by Germany's Dr. Ulrich Abel,
> and published in his book, "Chemotherapy of Advanced Epithelial
> Cancer."
Gee, one type of cancer. That hardly supports the claim that most people
with cancer are not helped by chemotherapy.
> In brief, he compiled survival times in patients treated for
> the most common and fatal adenocarcinomas, including breast and colon
> cancer. He found that small-cell lung cancer was the "only carcinoma
> for which good direct evidence of a survival improvement by
> chemotherapy exists."
Please explain why most people in the US with cancer achieve a five-year
disease-free survival, which is usually considered a cure.
> Unfortunately, the survival improvement he
> noted was only three months, not a compelling reason to endure the
> life-changing and brutal effects of chemotherapy. You've been asked
> before to produce a published source to support your counter claim,
> but you came up short. And here again, nothing.
visit cancer.gov.
>> However, most people who have
>> cancer will have a 5-year disease-free survival. This is often
>> considered a cure.
>
> That is typically based on earlier detection, meaning you don't live
> any longer but are aware of your disease sooner.
Bull.
> Another of the
> pharmaceutical industry's dirty little tricks designed to conceal the
> failure of chemotherapy drugs. If I'm wrong, where is your published
> science?
>> In addition, this is a big deal to their families.
>
> Earlier detection just means people have stress for longer while
> enduring a harsh "treatment" that doesn't extend life.
Bull. I guess you have never worked in a hospital as a physician.
>> Imagine that a grandparent of a 7-year-old kid learns he has CML. Now,
>> with Gleevec, the grandparent may only live 5 years (vs. 1 year without
>> it). The child and his parents will have the grandparent for 4
>> additional priceless years.
>
> You disagreed that *most* cancers are not effectively treated using
> such drugs, however Chronic myeloid leukaemia is very rare. Yes, the
> drug appears to effectively extend life in those with CML, though it a
> very dangerous drug. This example, however, does not support your
> argument since CML is not common.
Actually, it does. Read you previous statement. And, while not common,
look up the survival statistics for childhood cancer.
And how is Gleevec a very dangerous drug?
>> I find the pile-on comment funny, too. The fact is that most natural
>> methods are not proven. And, they don't work.
>
> Give me a list of such methods that you think are not proven. You
> can't do it, can you?
Just about every alternative treatment. Start with homeopathy.
>> The fact is that this group is "sci.med" which means science and
>> medicine. That is what this group is about. Not conjecture-based medicine.
>
> So stop conjecturing, Dr. Doo-LITTLE.
Nice name-calling. That is the best alties can do.
JEff
Citizen Jimserac
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
>
> Posted by: Dr. Mercola
> December 22 2009 | 175,341 views
>
> Amy L. Lansky, PhD
>
> www.impossiblecure.com
OUTSTANDING and excllent post! Thanks go to john for an interesting
defence of Homeopathy.
I have Amy Lansky's book and it is quite good. In addition, if you go
to her home page, you will find links to radio talks by some of the
Homeopathic doctors mentioned in the books. These are quite good too.
Homeopathy has been proven to work by the most exacting tests of all,
the inductive experience across centuries and across the borders of
countries and across the wide spectrum of disorders ranging from acute
and serious to long term chronic. In order for Homeopathy to be mere
placebo or to be considered not effective, one would have to accuse
some of the best medical minds of past and present of being fooled in
what would be the greatest case of self delusion of all time - a
COMPLETE ABSURDITY which NO thinking person could condone.
Therefore, Homeopathy, proven in the heat of battle, has established
itself. It is only in the last 10 or 20 years that we have begun to
have the necessary lab tools to start making a scientific research
attempt at uncovering the modus operandi. Current research,
involving high dilutions which somehow manage to exhibit continued
biological effects even after all molecules of the stimulant have been
diluted away, are ongoing and often use flow cytometry and other
modern lab techniques with yet better and improved controls to find
out what is happening.
Meanwhile, a group of self appointed cynics, used to making a profit
by DEMONSTRATING (sic) to everyone that Complementary and Alternative
medicine in general, and Homeopathy in particular, are complete
nonsense, or, at best, placebo effect, have been on the warpath to
"prove" their case.
Make NO mistake. If Homeopathy proves out in the labs, not only will
the self appointed cynics, armchair "experts", pseudo scientists and
half baked "science" journalists be out of business and COMPLETELY
DISCREDITED, but the entire multi BILLION dollar pharmaceutical
industry and its legions of parasitical subservients will suffer MAJOR
financial embarassment.
THAT ALONE, as well as a logical devotion to the principle of
rational freedom of choice for every Citizen, DEMANDS that the
research into this field continue, considering it could very well lead
to new principles and probably one of the greatest scientific
breakthroughs in the history of medicine.
I will probably shortly, in the next few months, begin a formal study
of Homeopathy even though I have been a reader of it for several
years now, having carefully weighed the research, writings, articles,
looked up historical sources and again and again removed the doubts of
my initial profound scepticism. One of the most exciting courses
I've ever taken in my life was the Introductory Principles of
Homeopathy courses, given at my Oriental medicine medical college by
a brilliant practicing Homeopath who answered my every objection and
question with calm reasoning, references, fact and science.
But, to get a feel for what it is all about, simply pick up a copy of
"The Patient, Not the Cure" by Majorie Blackie or better, ANY of the
medical books by Dr. Dorothy Sheperd, who was completely sceptical at
first and then gradually compared her old way of doing things with the
newer Homeopathic ways and became a complete convert, specifying and
giving individual examples from her own extensive case histories -
again and again showing the Homeopathic remedies working better,
healing faster, and OFTEN helping to avoid the necessity of an
operation completely. The moment one finds out what REAL Homeopaths
do and have done, and realizes the power of it, all attempts to
diminish it or worse, deny it, become identified as obvious
falsehood. SUCH is the power of Homeopathy.
Citizen Jimserac (aka James Pannozzi)
Jan Drew
The webpage cannot be found
Jan Drew
Discourse on Matters of Public Health
To : All participants and readers of sci.med,
misc.health.alternative,
uk.people.health, talk.politics.medicine
Please be aware that many comments and responses posted to this forum
are not those of casual posters interested in an honest exchange. A
number of individuals with ties to industry are attempting to shape
public thinking about the risks of mainstream medicine while
attacking
the benefits and validity of natural medicine. This activity is
known
in the PR industry as “astroturfing.” For obvious reasons, these
individuals do not promote a specific company or product, as might be
the case with standard "blogging" on a weblog, but there is a common
thread between industry blogging in a web blog and industry
participation in a newsgroup: both are done under the pretense that
the poster is not professionally affiliated. Most of these people
are
likely to be associated with a PR project whose "turfing" efforts are
underwritten anonymously by the media or marketing groups of
industry. They are not difficult to identify due to specific
patterns
in their posting. Please familiarize yourself with these tactics so
you can identify them.
See: http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2003Q1/monger.html
See: http://emord.com/stories/cherish.htm
What to look for while participating in Usenet newsgroups:
1. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on the use of intimidation, mockery,
and insults to silence those who express belief or interest in
natural
medicine. These individuals actively discourage a scientific
discussion and disrupt ongoing discussions that explore alternative
treatments in healthcare.
2. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on personal attacks against those
who
question the effectiveness of mainstream medicine, asserting that
disease-management "healthcare" is the only viable form of treatment.
Their comments are frequently embedded in pseudo-scientific jargon,
but without supporting scientific documentation, for reasons
footnoted
below.
3. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on a VERTICAL focus in the
newsgroups
by using "flame wars" and other trolling behaviour to create long
tunneling threads. This not only reduces the distribution of new
content but makes existing substantive posts less likely to be read.
This latter tactic is the one most commonly used and unfortunately
draws well-meaning advocates of natural medicine into time consuming
and unproductive exchanges. The success of this tactic is
underscored
by the large amount of time industry devotes to it.
4. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on a first-responder approach within
new threads or in response to questions or followup in existing
threads. A closely related tactic is the tag team effort to bury the
comments of others and have the last word, usually concluding with a
personal attack against those whose view of mainstream medicine is
unfavorable.
5. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on use of the "pile on" to create
the
aura of a "consensus view" in an effort to isolate posters who
disagree with them. You will experience this if you express a belief
in natural medicine or question the value of conventional methods.
The greatest use of this tactic occurs in discussions relating to the
most profitable segment of the medical industry, oncology, and use of
chemotherapeutic agents.
6. Astroturfing on Usenet refutes numerous quality studies published
in major medical journals showing the benefits of natural medicine
applied in naturopathic healthcare, including nutrient
supplementation, exercise, stress reduction, biofeedback,
accupuncture, accupressure, reflexology, and other approaches. You
can
find the science supporting a variety of natural healing methods at
the user-friendly website, http://www.naturalnews.com.
7. Astroturfing on Usenet frequently refer readers to "quack-busting"
websites designed to attack natural medicine approaches and their
proponents. Under the guise of "consumer protection," the extreme
bias of these promoters belies their claims and reveals their ties to
industry.
8. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on junk science references to
support
unfounded attacks on natural healing methods. At the same time,
these
individuals decline to provide meaningful scientific references in
support of their defense of most conventional treatments. Since most
standard medicines are either marginally effective, unproven, or
dangerous, it is not suprising that outdated or purely anecdotal and
observational studies (usually sponsored by the drug makers) are the
only "science" available to them.
9. Astroturfing on Usenet relies on the belief that conventional
medicine is "evidence based," however the lack of corroborating
science disproves that claim. Chemotherapy drugs, for instance, are
unproven in the majority of cancers, yet FDA has permitted these
drugs
to remain in use for more than thirty years. For most cancer
patients, there is no clinical benefit in the use of these expensive
and toxic chemicals.
10. Astroturfing on Usenet ignores iatrogenic studies that show the
dangerous side effects of prescription drugs (ie., at least 100,000
deaths annually), as well as a 20% recall for all previously approved
drugs. They also ignore hundreds of studies showing a disease
relationship to use of such drugs and other unsafe medical
treatments.
Tip: If you find yourself engaging a poster whose defense of
mainstream medicine is unusually dramatic in tone, or inexplicably
vicious toward others, and if that response is an attempt to attack
natural medicine, you have probably encountered an individual who
astroturfs for industry. It is their collective mission to prevent a
critical mass of consumer awareness about disinformation regarding
matters of public health and the dangers of standard medical
treatment. Unfortunately, there are more of these individuals
posting
to Usenet on a daily basis than almost anyone else, which is why I am
posting this alert. If you find it odd that so few people on health-
related usenet newsgroups are expressing an interest in natural
medicine, it isn't because they aren't there, it's because they have
been intimidated into silence. The “turfing” goons have over-run the
various newsgroups with their industrial brand of dogma, mockery, and
ridicule. Many casual posters are simply frightened away.
* From Wikipedia: "An internet forum is not a blog (technically
speaking), but a blog can function as an internet forum. Internet
forums typically allow any user to post (into the discussion). Blogs
typically limit posting to the blogger or to the blogger and approved
others. The distinction between blogs and forums is sometimes gray.
Sites such as Slashdot, Indymedia and Daily Kos combine elements of
the two...many bloggers differentiate themselves from the mainstream
media, WHILE OTHERS ARE MEMBERS OF THAT MEDIA WORKING THROUGH A
DIFFERENT CHANNEL. SOME INSTITUTIONS SEE BLOGGING AS A MEANS OF
"GETTING AROUND THE FILTER" AND PUSHING MESSAGES DIRECTLY TO THE
PUBLIC. Some critics worry that bloggers respect neither intellectual
property nor the role of the mass media in presenting society with
credible news...A blog is a website in which items are posted on a
regular basis and displayed in reverse chronological order...Blogs
use
a conversational style of documentation. Often blogs focus on a
particular "area of interest",
such as Washington, D.C.'s political goings-on. Some blogs discuss
personal experiences."
The advent of "blogging" was preceded by Usenet newsgorups, however
there are many similiarities between posters in the two venues. The
difference is mainly a distinction in software platforms, not the
nature of published content. I have never referred to the newsgroup
itself as being a weblog. Rather, I refer to individual posters as
"blogging" on behalf of industry. While my focus is on nutrition and
science, these individuals rely on semantics, non sequiturs, and
personal attacks in their effort to distract from the real issues.
Pharmaturfing: The practice of using the Internet and Usenet
newsgroups to: 1) promote and defend maintstream medicine and disease
management; 2) attack those who express a favorable view of natural
medicine; and 3) cite a variety of junk medical science funded by
industry for the purpose of establishing markets for marginally
effective, and often dangerous, medical products and devices.
Typically, such references are by inference only, so as to avoid
linking directly to promotional material on the drug makers'
websites,
which would further demonstrate their ties to industry. Consequently,
you will rarely see these individuals include updated citations of a
scientific nature.
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
> So back *your* claims of this.
Now, that's takes the cake. Since you have posted you no longer
practice. So, you are no longer an MD. NOT dr.
Citizen Jimserac
Indeed so, "PeterB" made it into my KILLFILE in record time - the
only other there is Chung.
Citizen Jimserac
Happy Oyster
wrote:
>Homeopathy has been proven to work
That is bullshit.
Homeopathy is nothing but fraud.
Happy Oyster
> Yappy yappy again.
Strange things, really strange things...
FAQ about JAN DREW, the Net stalker and agent for the naturopathic mafia
========================================================================
Part V
======
1. The 3rd Jan Drew shows up. Who is he?
2. The history of Jan Drew
3. Where is Jan Drew?
4. Bloomington, Indiana - what a town...?
5. Jan Drew in Bloomington, Indiana
6. The second marriage of Janet Mae Stidd
1. The 3rd Jan Drew shows up. Who is he?
========================================
Yesterday, on July 15th., 2009, Jan Drew used this email address:
"Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
today, a Jan Drew shows up and makes the very same mess as the Jan Drew before.
The question is: Is this new Jan Drew the very same as the old one?
Have a look at this header of a posting by the old Jan Drew:
<quote>
Reply-To: "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
From: "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
*******************************************
Newsgroups:
alt.support.attn-deficit,misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
References: <2Tv5m.13822$Dx2....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>
<4a56c915$1...@news.x-privat.org>
<5887315b-4039-4968...@k20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
<1n5f55h7u4c42bi46...@4ax.com>
<c5f6d3c6-9b06-41d2...@m18g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
<4a57...@news.x-privat.org>
<e0ee83b9-fd44-4b4e...@j12g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
<4a59...@news.x-privat.org>
<c3fb2c8b-309c-476f...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
<%tR6m.13435$j84...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
<598f2214-9713-4260...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <598f2214-9713-4260...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Turning every which way
Lines: 90
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005
Message-ID: <NCc7m.16203$j84....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.239.89.125
X-Complaints-To: ab...@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1247630893 ST000 70.239.89.125 (Wed, 15 Jul 2009
************************************************************
00:08:13 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:08:13 EDT
Organization: at&t http://my.att.net/
X-UserInfo1:
SCSYQNON_BWWSTT[_X_JJ\UDFZ\@@FXLM@TDOCQDJ@_@FNHBK^RAQFW[ML\THRCKV^GGZKJMGV^^_JSCFFUA_QXFGVSCYRPILH]TRVKC^LSN@DX_HCAFX__@J\DAJBVMY\ZWZCZLPA^MVH_P@\\EOMW\YSXHG__IJQY_@M[A[[AXQ_XDSTAR]\PG]NVAQUVM
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:08:06 -0400
misc.health.alternative:625434 misc.kids.health:185126
alt.support.breast-implant:159698 sci.med.dentistry:311488
[name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years] wrote in message
news:598f2214-9713-4260...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 13, 9:48 pm, "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> [name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years] wrote in message
</quote>
The old Jan Drew posts from the IP
X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1247630893 ST000 70.239.89.125 (Wed, 15 Jul 2009
The new Jan Drew with the email address
Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
posts from this IP:
Injection-Info: r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=70.239.93.194;
See this piece of proof:
<quote>
From: Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
*************************************
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: TURNABOUT IS FAIR PLAY
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <b2ae85b9-c00d-4ade...@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <1934e371-d192-4b1e...@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.239.93.194
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1247775941 27518 127.0.0.1 (16 Jul 2009 20:25:41
GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:25:41 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=70.239.93.194;
*************************************************************************
posting-account=OFeWnQoAAABbB1i9TveLsH6hCiYooPyP
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1)
Gecko/20090624 Firefox/3.5 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Oh, dear [name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years] is shouting
again. You should be careful. Remember you
will be 64 in November of this year.
Regardless of all your antics to prove otherwise. The fact is you
posted your birthday.
On Jul 15, 11:27�pm, [name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years]
wrote:
> For years Jan has felt it is her right to report anyone she wishes to
> their ISP or email provider.
>
> She has now claimed that she has reported me.
>
> It is time to stop her.
>
> I am asking everyone who is fed up with this disgusting person's
> actions to report her to her ISP: Make it so that they will do
> something because they are working too hard dealing with complaints
> about her.
>
> It is time to stop her.
>
> Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news2.google.com!
> news.glorb.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!flph199.ffdc.sbc.com!
> prodigy.com!nlpi071.nbdc.sbc.com!flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com.POSTED!6c044f75!
> not-for-mail
> Reply-To: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>
> From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>
> Newsgroups:alt.support.attn-deficit,misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.support.breast-implant,sci.med.dentistry
> References: <2Tv5m.13822$Dx2....@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>
> <4a56c91...@news.x-privat.org>
> <5887315b-4039-4968-96b4-690ef356c...@k20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
> <1n5f55h7u4c42bi46dd3edip1jill4l...@4ax.com> <c5f6d3c6-9b06-41d2-a108-
> fd1f1db1c...@m18g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> <4a57f...@news.x-
> privat.org> <e0ee83b9-fd44-4b4e-
> aa43-144adc5c8...@j12g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <4a594...@news.x-
> privat.org>
> <c3fb2c8b-309c-476f-85e1-105728115...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com> <
> %tR6m.13435$j84...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com> <598f2214-9713-4260-
> b3e6-2970dcad8...@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <NCc7m.
> 16203$j84.2...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com> <beedfd20-e5c4-4689-89ff-
> f1fe8053d...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <vDv7m.
> 11922$lv5.8...@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com> <d08603b5-
> c6a3-4f6e-812a-59d022587...@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
> In-Reply-To: <d08603b5-
> c6a3-4f6e-812a-59d022587...@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Turning every which way
> Lines: 59
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> � � � � format=flowed;
> � � � � charset="iso-8859-1";
> � � � � reply-type=original
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005
> Message-ID: <JCw7m.18120$Dx2.14...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.76.216.180
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@prodigy.net
> X-Trace: flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com 1247712809 ST000 68.76.216.180 (Wed, 15
> Jul 2009 22:53:29 EDT)
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:53:29 EDT
> Organization: at&thttp://my.att.net/
> X-UserInfo1: OX[[BWSEBJBUW]YSN
> [O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFJYWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^
> \XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z
> [YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM
> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:01:45 -0400
>
> I suggest you read your terms of service
> At Gmail.com,Optimum.net, cv.net, and google.com
You are not fooling me, [name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years].
I happen to know you reported
me several days ago.
And, what does Torah say about turnabout is fair play?
</quote>
So we have:
From: Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
but about an hour later, with the same email address another IP shows up:
From: Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
See this piece of proof:
<quote>
From: Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
**********************************************
Newsgroups:
alt.support.attn-deficit,sci.med,misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health
Subject: Re: ADHD Drugs Proven Absolutely Useless for Children - Plus, They
Stunt Growth
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
**********************************************
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 418
Message-ID: <356ea98d-dfc2-471b...@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <97f92520-cdcc-4952...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
<a6427afd-254c-44e3...@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
<a9086444-5e6e-4267...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.12.112.11
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1247780472 9697 127.0.0.1 (16 Jul 2009 21:41:12 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:41:12 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=64.12.112.11;
***********************************************************************
posting-account=OFeWnQoAAABbB1i9TveLsH6hCiYooPyP
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; AOL 9.0; Windows NT 6.0;
Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR
3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
X-HTTP-Via: HTTP/1.1 (Velocity/3.1.1.5 [uScMs f p eN:t cCMp s ]), HTTP/1.0
spider-mtc-ta11.proxy.aol.com[400C700B] (Prism/1.2.1)
On Jul 12, 7:01�pm, [name of person, who is stalked by Jan Drew for years]
wrote:
> On Jul 12, 1:48�am, bosco62a <bosco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
</quote>
This is the IP:
Injection-Info: r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=64.12.112.11;
So we see that
Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
also uses this IP from AOL:
<quote>
IP Information for 64.12.112.11
IP Location: United States Reston America Online Inc
Resolve Host: spider-mtc-ta11.proxy.aol.com
IP Address: 64.12.112.11
Blacklist Status: Clear
Whois Record
OrgName:����America�Online,�Inc.�
OrgID:������AMERIC-158
Address:����10600�Infantry�Ridge�Road
City:�������Manassas
StateProv:��VA
PostalCode:�20109
Country:����US
</quote>
AOL is the very same provider which Jan Drew #1 used.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. The history of Jan Drew
==========================
This new Jan Drew is #3 as Jan Drew #1 was the one with the AOL account.
#1. jdrew...@aol.com (JDrew63929)
#2. "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
#3. Jan Drew <drew...@gmail.com>
I looked at the profiles of Jan Drew #1 and Jan Drew #2:
That is for Jan Drew's old account at AOL.
jdrew...@aol.com (JDrew63929)
<quote>�
Posting-Aktivit�t
Jan. Feb. Mrz. Apr. Mai Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Okt. Nov. Dez.
1999 - - 191 99 54 223 289 260 203 359 297 192
2000 109 276 414 249 461 628 384 284 191 60 416 626
2001 534 152 572 297 677 430 715 621 281 278 392 599
2002 788 481 343 390 508 718 666 643 655 874 561 954
2003 621 866 932 646 629 746 539 593 595 500 521 569
2004 459 692 958 716 749 524 694 1045 784 1007 1151 977
2005 480 1143 206 - - - - 5� - - - 2�
2006 �3� �7� 10 157 �6� 13 21 �3� 21 43 �5� 24
2007 74 37 - �5� - 5� �2 � - �1� - - -
2008 �9� - - - 21 - - - - - - -
</quote>
This is for "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
http://groups.google.de/groups/profile?enc_user=5J_FIxcAAADGQdj7vwDkkkzclBLHYN6whUEdIBtH1-9oWMCTqaiMrA
<quote>
Posting-Aktivit�t
Jan. Feb. Mrz. Apr. Mai Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Okt. Nov. Dez.
- .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
2006 - 157 2293 1921 1837 2092 2273 1865 1797 2453 1600 1042
2007 475 357 406 523 561 490 370 287 326 435 798 552
2008 942 1346 892 1006 579 1076 742 877 451 555 383 424
2009 909 691 585 345 861 835 423
</quote>
As you can see: The old account at AOL still is used, but less often.
Here you can see the activities of Jan Drew #3:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Where is Jan Drew?
=====================
In an old posting I found the word "Bloomington", which made me curious. So I
tried to find more about it.
This I now found with the word "bloomington":
http://www.theangelconnection.net/school9.html
<quote>
2433) Bill Drew, Bloomington, Indiana
2434) Jan Drew, Bloomington, Indiana
</quote>
I also found this:
<quote>
LookupAnyone.com - People Directory - Jan Drew
Drew, Jan L, 63, Cheyenne, WY.
Drew, Jana Brittain, 45, Wilmington, NC.
Drew, Janelle L, 36, Sublette, IL.
Drew, Janet B, 70, Bloomington, IN ...
***************************************
www.lookupanyone.com/namelistings/jan-drew.html
LookupAnyone.com - People Directory - Jan Harper
Harper, Jan L, 84, Loveland, CO. Harper, Jan Drew, 53, Fairview, NC ...
Harper, Jan E, 54, Cincinnati, OH. Harper, Jan, Bloomington, IN ...
www.lookupanyone.com/namelistings/jan-harper.html
</quote>
Well, Bloomington turns out to be a town in Indiana.
The WHOIS for the IP of Jan Drew #2 (which actually is Jan Drew #3)
gives for (see above!)
nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1247630893 ST000 70.239.89.125 (Wed, 15 Jul 2009
this result:
<quote>
IP Information for 70.239.89.125
IP Location: United States Bloomington AT&T Internet Services
**************************************************************
Resolve Host: adsl-70-239-89-125.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net
*********************************************************
IP Address: 70.239.89.125
Blacklist Status: Clear
Whois Record
OrgName:����AT&T�Internet�Services�
OrgID:������SIS-80
Address:����2701�N.�Central�Expwy�#�2205.15
City:�������Richardson
StateProv:��TX
PostalCode:�75080
Country:����US
NetRange:���70.224.0.0�-�70.239.255.255�
CIDR:�������70.224.0.0/12�
NetName:����SBCIS-SIS80
NetHandle:��NET-70-224-0-0-1
Parent:�����NET-70-0-0-0-0
NetType:����Direct�Allocation
NameServer:�NS1.AMERITECH.NET
NameServer:�NS2.AMERITECH.NET
Comment:����
RegDate:����2005-03-22
Updated:����2007-05-25
OrgAbuseHandle:�ABUSE6-ARIN
OrgAbuseName:���Abuse�-�Southwestern�Bell�Internet�
OrgAbusePhone:��+1-800-648-1626
</quote>
Bloomington, Indiana.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Bloomington, Indiana - what a town...?
=========================================
Searching with
Jan Drew Blomington
one hit is this:
<quote>
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
misc.health.alternative
Message from discussion Debbee/Deborah Annie Adams either Put up or Shut
up!--Jan Drew wins the SEA EWE EN TEA Award
View parsed - Show only message text
Path:
g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!out02a.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!in04.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!nlpi057.nbdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!flpi088.ffdc.sbc.com!prodigy.com!flpi107.ffdc.sbc.com!nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!6c044f75!not-for-mail
From: "Jan Drew" <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>
******************************************
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.support.breast-implant
References:
<5fb276c9-4492-466d...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
<8lZ7k.14208$Ri.1...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>
<2095c8bf-ab0d-4931...@d19g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
<qJF8k.11426$uE5....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com>
<3eba8128-72f8-4d08...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
<4jY8k.29005$ZE5....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
<ffa52845-c6e5-43e6...@r37g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
<g439sm$cjk$1...@aioe.org>
<8f930eab-5c8f-4d7c...@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
<g43q87$bj6$1...@aioe.org>
<d055491b-85d5-42b1...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
<GeE9k.13323$mh5....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>
<5a2f4537-a888-4df8...@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
<IOV9k.209$cn7...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>
<da69f703-8181-48ac...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
<VFUak.460$cn7...@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com>
<e6169a9d-670c-4443...@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To:
<e6169a9d-670c-4443...@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re:
Debbee/Deborah Annie Adams either Put up or Shut up!--Jan Drew wins the SEA EWE
EN TEA Award
Lines: 463
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18000
Message-ID: <B2hbk.21272$co7....@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.239.91.212
********************************
X-Complaints-To: ab...@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com 1215143201 ST000 70.239.91.212 (Thu, 03 Jul 2008
23:46:41 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:46:41 EDT
Organization: at&t http://my.att.net/
X-UserInfo1:
SCSYQN_@OPT[B_\YYJ_BZ]EJUSXB@DTMNHWB_EYLJZ]BGIELNVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:46:08 -0400
You, Deborah Annie Adams first wrote:
Jan:
Since it would appear that you always have to be "right,"
it would appear that you can not admit that you invented some stories about me
that are not truthful in nature.
I sent you a "cease and desist" letter from this email address.
I only came back to post (I still get all of the emails from the
group) and make it very perfectly clear that you
have no clue of what you are discussing about me, and those that do, are
laughing at you.
Would you rather be, "right," in your own mind, or look foolish
amongst those that are "in the know."
I'm no longer reading this newsgroup, and came back when yet again, you would
appear to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic,
and I will not longer tolerate the garbage that is spewing from your toxic
mouth.
Leave my name out of your discussions. Lose my name from your
vocabulary.
Got it? I hope so.
And by the way, Annie is a nickname that some people call me because it is part
of my name.
Just because I am no longer posting, does not mean I am no longer
reading.
"BeeStings" <dbeesti...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5fb276c9-4492-466d...@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Jan:
Yes, Debbee?
OrgName: Netscape Communications Corp.
OrgID: NSCP
Address: 501 E. Middlefield
City: Mountain View
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94043
Country: US
NetRange: 207.200.64.0 - 207.200.127.255
CIDR: 207.200.64.0/18
NetName: NETSCAPE-CIDR
NetHandle: NET-207-200-64-0-1
Parent: NET-207-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS.NETSCAPE.COM
NameServer: NS2.NETSCAPE.COM
Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
RegDate: 1996-09-06
Updated: 2001-03-28
RTechHandle: AOL-NOC-ARIN
RTechName: America Online, Inc.
RTechPhone: +1-703-265-4670
RTechEmail: doma...@aol.net
> Since it would appear that you always have to be "right,"
Oh, really?
*would appear*, why don't you just speak up?
> it would appear that you can not admit that you invented some stories about me that are not truthful in nature.
I have nothing to admit, since I did NOT invent any stories about you, Debbee
*****************************************************************************
Adams.
******
> I sent you a "cease and desist" letter from this email address.
NO, you did not. In fact you sent me an email form SNIFFFTHIS,
and used the name Annie, then signed it B.
> I only came back to post (I still get all of the emails from the group) and make it very perfectly clear that you
> have no clue of what you are discussing about me, and those that do, are laughing at you.
> Would you rather be, "right," in your own mind, or look foolish
> amongst those that are "in the know."
> I'm no longer reading this newsgroup, and came back when yet again, you would appear to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic,
> and I will not longer tolerate the garbage that is spewing from your toxic mouth.
> Leave my name out of your discussions. Lose my name from your
> vocabulary.
> Got it? I hope so.
> And by the way, Annie is a nickname that some people call me because it is part of my name.
lol. I thought you said you were not Annie?
> Just because I am no longer posting, does not mean I am no longer reading.
lol. Poor Debbee:
*I'm no longer reading this newsgroup*.
Get help.
Now, I will in fact post the email you sent me in another post.
And......................
Don't even think about telling me what to do, post, or--otherwise, Debbee. Got
that?
Debbee A Adams do NOT email me again using different names, and a bit of history
From Dbeesti...@aol.com Sat Jun 21 01:21:49 2008
X-Apparently-To: jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net via 209.191.85.222; Sat, 21 Jun 2008
01:21:56 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [64.12.137.9]
Return-Path: <dbeesti...@aol.com>
Authentication-Results: mta125.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com from=aol.com;
domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 207.115.36.36 (EHLO nlpi007.prodigy.net) (207.115.36.36) by
mta125.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 01:21:56 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [64.12.137.9]
Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by
nlpi007.prodigy.net (8.13.8 inb regex/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5L8Ls8B013159 for
<jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:21:54 -0500
Received: from Dbeesti...@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.4.) id
j.d64.27777f10 (30737) for <jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net>; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:21:49
-0400 (EDT)
From: Dbeesti...@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Message-ID: <d64.27777f10.358e1...@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 04:21:49 EDT
Subject: "Cease and Desist"
To: jdrew1...@sbcglobal.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_d64.27777f10.358e141d_boundary"
X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 206
X-Spam-Flag: NO
Content-Length: 3714
June 21, 2008
This written to advise you to "cease and desist" from discussing me, and
libeling me any further than you have. I'm tired of you posting about
untruthful information about me, and Annie is one of my names.
I have proof that my computer was hacked into, and hacked into people connected
to Quackwatch. All you are doing is making a bigger fool out of yourself than
you already have. Bob Kulacz, and Tim Bolen have copies of the emails I sent.
The windows portion of my Mac Book was hacked into, and I'm no longer on
Wireless. I am on dial-up.
You have no idea of what you are talking about.
You falsely accused me of (Bob Kulacz forwarded me the emails) of going to
California to stalk Ilena, that I had joined the gang, and that you didn't trust
me. This was entire fairy tale that you and Ilena made up, and I'm sorry that
you feel that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a LIAR, but you have
libelled me for the last time. It will not happen again. I am no longer
posting there and there is no further need to discuss me.
Ask your attorney to explain what "LIBEL" is. Calling someone a liar just
because you don't happen to believe them, is libel.
And there are two J. Drew's. It was even pointed out by another poster in the
group.
Thank you.
Deborah Annie Adams
--------------------------------------------
OOPs, note is is now J. Drew and not Jan Drew's
Now, let's see what both Myrl Jeffcoat and Coleah Ayres has to say about Debbee
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/8239d7e6a3...
Oct 27, 2007
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.support.breast-implant
From: Myrl <wisgroup_lea...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:52:42 -0000
Local: Sat, Oct 27 2007 10:52 am
Subject: Re: To MYRL and ILENA
You have contacted my employer which goes outside the bounds of civil behavior
one Usenet. I consider you to be a stalker and abuser.
Therefore, I will no longer respond to you except to post this
message.
YOU ARE HEREBY PLACED ON NOTICE NOT TO ATTEMPT TO CONTACT ME IN THE SLIGHTEST
MANNER. YOU ARE NOT TO CONTACT ANYONE ABOUT ME. TO DO SO WILL JUSTIFY MY TAKING
FURTHER ACTION, WHEN, WHERE AND WHAT AS I SEE FIT.
On Oct 27, 12:16 am, "SNIFFFT...@gmail.com" <SNIFFFT...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 4:37 pm, Myrl <wisgroup_lea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > For a list of the actual webpages created by Ilena Rosenthal, please visit:
> >http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com/ilenawebpages.html
> > For the Truth and the Facts surrounding Ilena Rosenthal and her foundation, please visit:
> >http://www.ilena-rosenthal.com
> I ran Ilena Rosenthal's name through a bunch of databases. I also called the DRE. Ilena Rosenthal has a license through the DRE, as do you, Myrl Jeffcoat. Have you done anything Myrl or Ilena that would violate the code ethics of the licenses you have?? I'm kind of curious to find out if something I read a while back has any truth attached to it. I have read where fans of celebrities have started websites using the celebrities names in the website address, and the celebrities have successfully been able to have those websites removed because the fan was using a name other than their own in the web address, and without permission.
------------------------------------
Follow that thread. You will see Debbee Adams--Snifffthis has nuked her posts.
However, she evidently cannot nuke her profile.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/948ed26ada...
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.support.breast-implant
From: Coleah <col...@pacifier.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:56:27 -0700
Local: Tues, Oct 23 2007 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: To MYRL and ILENA
DEBBEE SAID: "Apparently you have nothing better to do, some of us work for a
living. Some of us have real lives."
>From the mouth of (2nd from left) blonde:
Debbee A Adams (54)
San Carlos, CA and Milton, WA
http://www.louielouie.net/pix-2007/loufest2007/ep-da-jeff-rfs.jpg
I am very happily RETIRED from working.
But, thank you for your 'unusual concern' about how I spend MY time. You
wouldn't have been 'baiting' to learn who my 'employer' was, so you could
complain about me, were you?????? Chortle, chortle,
chortle.
[Apparently DEBBEE has nothing better to do (while she's 'working' so hard for a
living) than to search the internet looking for some kind of 'dirt' on people.
The best she could do with me was find a
reference to a store I previously owned.]
Is that YOUR 'real life', DEBBEE?
Certainly writing for little known rag called 60's Beat can't be all you do to
pay the rent.
>From a few previous poster's mentioning something about DEBBEE and a
lawsuit....I got the impression DEBBEE had sued Mark Lindsey of Paul Revere and
the Raiders. Alas it appears was the other way around. Funny how she denied any
knowledge of it however.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/536569d0bf...
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, alt.support.breast-implant
From: Myrl <wisgroup_lea...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:06:53 -0000
Local: Tues, Oct 23 2007 8:06 pm
Subject: Re: To MYRL and ILENA
On Oct 23, 2:33 pm, "SNIFFFT...@gmail.com" <SNIFFFT...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 23, 9:56 am, Coleah <col...@pacifier.com> wrote:
> I know nothing of what you are speaking about.
> I'm not the editor of any publication.
> I do not live in Milton, WA or San Carlos, CA
> There goes your credibility, Coleah right down the tube.
> Deb Adams is not even my real name.
So then Debbee - when you contacted corporate GMAC in the last couple of days,
to complain about me, you are saying you lied about your
name???
---------------------------------------
On Oct 23, 4:43 pm, "SNIFFFT...@gmail.com" <SNIFFFT...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Oct 23, 3:50 pm, Coleah <col...@pacifier.com> wrote:
> It is *not your business*, Miss Busy Body, of *who* I am, *what* I do for a living, and *where* I live. Nor is *your business* what I am even
> doing here. This is the Usenet, and ANYONE can post here, for any reason. Got it? Good. Mind your own business, and I'll mind mine.
Wow - Debbee is calling people "Miss Busy Body" - and stating it isn't our
business to know *who" she is, *what" she does for a living, or *where* she
lives. Yet, she sees fit to get into other people's
business, calling their employers, etc. and giving fictious and
defamatory information.
What a piece of work you are Debbee!
I can understand why you would wish to come out from under a rock to do your
business, and then slither right back under again, once you've done your
reptilian handiwork!
You appear to be just another "free speech" hypocrite.
"BeeStings" <dbeesti...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:572e071b-2610-4d60...@r37g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> Jan Drew wrote:
>> lol. Poor Debbee:
>> *I'm no longer reading this newsgroup*.
>> Get help.
>> Now, I will in fact post the email you sent me in another post. And......................
>> Don't even think about telling me what to do, post, or--otherwise, Debbee.
>> Got that?
> It would appear that you need professional help in dealing with your abusive behavior.
> Just because someone has abused you in the past, or present, does not give you the absolute
> right to abuse others. Nor does it give you any special privileges to post lies about people you do not even know.
> If you do not know where to turn for professional help; I suggest contacting your doctor and asking for referrals.
> You are the one that needs help, not me.
> I think it would be in your best interest to remove the post you just made.
> Thank you.
It DOES appear, not *would* that YOU Deborah Annie Adams need professional help.
You have NEVER proven a single one of your false accusations. Nor--have you
proven you KNOW
there are two Jan Drew's posting on any of the same groups *I* Jan Drew post on.
There has been no abusive behavior towards you for me.
Your words:
* Just because someone has abused you in the past, or present, does not
give you the absolute
right to abuse others.*
And, just who would that be? Where did that come from?
It DOES appear, you do not know what you are posting about
So much for libel.
Now, either put up or shut up!
Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
�2009 Google
</quote>
Jan Drew in another case of Net stalking, as in unknown other cases before and
later.
What did Jan Drew write?:
<quote>
I have nothing to admit, since I did NOT invent any stories about you, Debbee
*****************************************************************************
Adams.
******
</quote>
That is fine because I did not invent any stories about Jan Drew. I only
followed this figure and archived material...
Jan Drew also wrote:
<quote>
Follow that thread. You will see Debbee Adams--Snifffthis has nuked her posts.
However, she evidently cannot nuke her profile.
</quote>
Jan Drew does not seem to know what a boomerang is...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Jan Drew in Bloomington, Indiana
===================================
Jan Drew claims to have owned a children day care center. But one of the many
things which Jan Drew refused to ever prove was this. Jan Drew even refused to
prove that he/she is female.
Well, looking for Jan Drew Bloomington reveiled many details.
Like this one:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/janet-drew/9/302/551
<quote>
Janet Drew
Owner, rtired
Bloomington, Indiana Area Research
Current
Owner at rtired
Connections
0 connections
Public Profile
</quote>
And this one:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri
=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAwOC8wNi8yNS9uZXdzLnFwLTkxNDQwMjYuc3Rv&start=24
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAwOC8wNi8yNS9uZXdzLnFwLTkxNDQwMjYuc3Rv&start=24
<quote>
Janet Drew
Thursday, June 26, 2008: 6:23 pm
More from 'Janet Drew' God Bless Leon. He is no longer in pain.
My daughter Jacque Nelson brought Hinkles from him.
*************************
I got to know him. He hadn't felt well for some time. Larrry (his son) and wife
Joan took him to their
home in Florida. So happy he was with them when he passed away.
He will never be forgotten by any here in Bloomington who knew and loved him.
*****************************************************
Rest in peace, Leon.
</quote>
And this one:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/bycity/united-states/indiana/bloomington/page/3
<quote>
Complaints in Bloomington, Indiana
==================================
Intelius
Posted: 2008-05-28 by Janet [send email]
Credit card not credited
Complaint Rating:
Talked with Carmen. All charges were to be credited. Conformation # 12056098.
$4.95 of 5-14-08 has not been credited. Do so immediately.
Janet Drew
Reply to jdrew...@aol.com...
***************************
</quote>
KABOOM!!!!!!!!!!!
*****************
<quote>
Janet Drew
Reply to jdrew...@aol.com...
</quote>
In may 2008 Jan Drew of Bloomington, Indiana, used the email address
That is exactly the very same as Jan Drew #1 used:
That is for Jan Drew's old account at AOL.
jdrew...@aol.com (JDrew63929)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. The second marriage of Janet Mae Stidd
=========================================
Jan Drew posts as "Jan Drew", but is that really her name? How about Janet or
Janice?
Remember of of the search engine hits above?
<quote>
My daughter Jacque Nelson...
</quote>
Search engines love that... ;O)
And they dig out precious little details ... like this:
http://www.wyandotteenterprises.com/Genealogy/DescendantsOfAndrewRichardson.htm
<quote>
318 3 6732 Benjamin David Stidd (DOB: 05/18/1916) [DOD: 02/06/2001]{ M } Father:
--- | 5461 Charles Thomas Stidd (DOB: 12/21/1881) [DOD: 00/00/1957] Mother: 311
| 5460 Lorene Sluss (DOB: 03/16/1885) [DOD: 00/00/1939] Spouse/SO: --- | 16325
Alma Mae Selzer (DOB: 10/22/1916)
SO's father: --- | 16336 Clarence E. Selzer (DOB: abt. 00/00/1890) [DOD:
12/21/1979]
SO's mother: --- | 16337 Erslie Woelflin
Children
319 | 16326 Dr. Benton Maurice Stidd (DOB: 06/30/1936)
324 | 16328 Janet Mae Stidd (DOB: 03/16/1939)
**********************************************
327 | 16335 Dr. Raymond Edward Stidd (DOB: 01/31/1938)
Born: Monroe Cty., IN
Documentation (birth): + Index to Monroe County, Indiana Birth Records 1882-1920
(re: Book H-8, p 297). Hays shows the year as 1914.
Died: Ellettsville, Richland Twp., Monroe Cty., IN
Buried: Valhalla Memory Gardens, Bloomington, Bloomington Twp., Monroe Cty., IN
Obituary: Benjamin David Stidd, 84
May 18, 1916 - Feb. 6, 2001
ELLETTSVIlLE - Benjamin David Stidd, age 84, of Ellettsville, died Tuesday at
his residence.
He was born May 18, 1916, in Monroe County, the son of Charles and Lorena
(Sluss) Stidd. He was a 1934 graduate of Bloomington High School, and was a
retired contractor and well-known farmer residing in the Bean Blossom bottom
area of Monroe County most of his life. He was active in the Stinesville Parent
Teachers Association and was its president from 1954 to 1956. During World War
II, he was involved in the construction of Camp Atterbury in Columbus, the
Allison Plant in Indianapolis, as well as a similar facility in Evansville, and
finally finished his service at the Crane Naval Station in construction of
military facilities. He was a member of the Seventh Day Adventist Church and
served in several
capacities as deacon and elder. He was married to Alma Mae Selzer of Bloomington
in 1934, and she remains. Other survivors include three children, Dr. Benton M.
Stidd of Liberty Hollow Road, a retired professor from Western Illinois
University, Dr. Raymond E. Stidd of Nashville, a retired Columbus podiatrist,
and a daughter, Janet Drew of Bloomington, retired owner of Happy Day Care
**************************************************************************
Center;
*******
three sisters, Martha Collins and Velma Hall of Bloomington and Jenny Name of
Ellettsville; 11 grandchildren and 17 great-grandchildren. He was preceded in
death by three brothers, Farwell Stidd, Leon Stidd and Lester Stidd, and two
sisters, Louise Richardson and Freda Bain.
Funeral service will be 1 p.m. Friday at Day Mortuary Chapel. Burial will be at
Valhalla Memory Gardens Mausoleum. Friends may call at Day Mortuary from 5-8
p.m. on Thursday. Friends who wish may make memorial
contributions to the scholarship fund of the Stinesville Alumni
Association.
Addresses: Ellettsville, RichlandTwp., Monroe Cty., IN
Military Service: During World War II, he was involved in the construction of
Camp Atterbury in Columbus, the Allison Plant in Indianapolis, as well as a
similar facility in Evansville, and finally finished his service at the Crane
Naval Station in construction of military facilities.
Employment/Professions: Farmer
Education: Bloomington High School (Bloomington, Monroe Cty., IN) *High School*
1934
Religion: Seventh-day Adventists
********************************
Documents:Obituary
Herald-Times (Bloomington, IN), 2/7/2001
Notes: From obituary.
THD 22124
</quote>
and this:
http://www.wyandotteenterprises.com/Genealogy/DescendantsOfAndrewRichardson.htm
<quote>
324 4 16328 Janet Mae Stidd (DOB: 03/16/1939) { F }
***************************************************
Father: 318 | 6732 Benjamin David Stidd (DOB: 05/18/1916) [DOD: 02/06/2001]
Mother: --- | 16325 Alma Mae Selzer (DOB: 10/22/1916)
Spouse/SO: --- | 16329 Jack Leroy Nelson (DOB: 07/07/1936)
**********************************************************
SO's father: --- | 16330 Don Nelson
SO's mother: --- | 16331 Anna Bell Jones
Spouse/SO: --- | 16332 James William Drew (DOB: 03/29/1935)
***********************************************************
SO's father: --- | 16333 James F. Drew
SO's mother: --- | 16334 Grace Small
Children
325 | 16767 Jeffery Lynn Nelson (DOB: 11/17/1958)
326 | 16768 Jacque Ann Nelson (DOB: 10/22/1960)
************************************************
Addresses: Bloomington, Monroe Cty., IN As of: 02/07/2001
Notes: From the Stidd/Sluss Family record and her father's obituary. +From Tommy
Hays' notes.
THD 114382
</quote>
All the pieces fit together.
First, marriage with
<quote>
Spouse/SO: --- | 16329 Jack Leroy Nelson (DOB: 07/07/1936)
</quote>
which makes the children have the family name Nelson.
The second marriage with
<quote>
Spouse/SO: --- | 16332 James William Drew (DOB: 03/29/1935)
***********************************************************
</quote>
makes Janet Mae Nelson, nee Stidd, Janet Drew of Bloomington, retired owner of
Happy Day Care Center.
The details of that:
http://www.slicesoftime.net/ourfamily/p97.html
<quote>
James William "Bill" Drew
**************************
M, #I4836, Born: [private]
Father:: James Franklin Drew, Born: 19 January 1916
Mother:: Grace Lorraine Small, Born: 29 January 1917, Died: 19 January 1995
Birth: 28 March 1935 Washington, Daviess County, Indiana
Family:
Marriage: 1 : Peggy Ann Ramage Married: 24 March 1954, Born: [private]
Mary Beth Drew, Born: 23 May 1954, Died: 24 May 1954
William Franklin Drew, Born: 21 August 1957, Died: 30 April 1958
+ Cheryl Ann Drew, Born: [private]
James David Drew, Born: [private]
Susan Elaine "Susie" Drew, Born: [private]
Marriage: 2 : Janet Mae Stidd Married: 25 November 1970, Born: [private]
*******************************************************
Last Updated: 05 March 2008
</quote>
http://www.slicesoftime.net/ourfamily/p97.html#I4846
<quote>
Janet Mae Stidd
***************
F, #I4846, Born: [private]
Father:: ?
Mother:: ?
Birth: 16 March 1938
Family:
Marriage: 1 : James William "Bill" Drew Married: 25 November 1970, Born:
******************************************************************
[private]
Last Updated: 14 May 2001
</quote>
One more detail:
http://www.lookupanyone.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&searchform=name
<quote>
Janet M Drew
************
View Details
70 Bloomington, IN (3)
************************************
Spencer, IN (1)
Lutz, FL (1) James Drew
J B Drew
Jan Drew
Bill J Drew
</quote>
"70" is her age, which matches with the other parts in the mosaic.
You remember the memorial?:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?sto_uri=L3N0b3JpZXMvMjAwOC8wNi8yNS9uZXdzLnFwLTkxNDQwMjYuc3Rv&start=24
<quote>
Janet Drew
Thursday, June 26, 2008: 6:23 pm
More from 'Janet Drew' God Bless Leon. He is no longer in pain.
My daughter Jacque Nelson brought Hinkles from him.
*************************
I got to know him. He hadn't felt well for some time. Larrry (his son) and wife
Joan took him to their
home in Florida. So happy he was with them when he passed away.
He will never be forgotten by any here in Bloomington who knew and loved him.
*****************************************************
Rest in peace, Leon.
</quote>
Well, there is the counterpart:
http://www.wyandotteenterprises.com/Genealogy/DescendantsOfAndrewRichardson.htm#16768
<quote>
326 5 16768 Jacque Ann Nelson (DOB: 10/22/1960) { F }
***********************************************
Father: --- | 16329 Jack Leroy Nelson (DOB: 07/07/1936)
*******************************************************
Mother: 324 | 16328 Janet Mae Stidd (DOB: 03/16/1939)
*****************************************************
</quote>
Through all the years since the beginning of the logs of
jdrew...@aol.com (JDrew63929)
Jan Drew pestered the net:
jdrew...@aol.com (JDrew63929)
<quote>�
Posting-Aktivit�t
Jan. Feb. Mrz. Apr. Mai Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Okt. Nov. Dez.
1999 - - 191 99 54 223 289 260 203 359 297 192
2000 109 276 414 249 461 628 384 284 191 60 416 626
2001 534 152 572 297 677 430 715 621 281 278 392 599
2002 788 481 343 390 508 718 666 643 655 874 561 954
2003 621 866 932 646 629 746 539 593 595 500 521 569
2004 459 692 958 716 749 524 694 1045 784 1007 1151 977
2005 480 1143 206 - - - - 5� - - - 2�
2006 �3� �7� 10 157 �6� 13 21 �3� 21 43 �5� 24
2007 74 37 - �5� - 5� �2 � - �1� - - -
2008 �9� - - - 21 - - - - - - -
</quote>
This is for "Jan Drew" <jdre...@sbcglobal.net>
http://groups.google.de/groups/profile?enc_user=5J_FIxcAAADGQdj7vwDkkkzclBLHYN6whUEdIBtH1-9oWMCTqaiMrA
<quote>
Posting-Aktivit�t
Jan. Feb. Mrz. Apr. Mai Jun. Jul. Aug. Sep. Okt. Nov. Dez.
- .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
2006 - 157 2293 1921 1837 2092 2273 1865 1797 2453 1600 1042
2007 475 357 406 523 561 490 370 287 326 435 798 552
2008 942 1346 892 1006 579 1076 742 877 451 555 383 424
2009 909 691 585 345 861 835 160
</quote>
Jan Drew gives medical advice, which, if followed, can lead to the death of your
children and of yourself.
Jan Drew lies, Jan Drew forges, Jan Drew seeds hatred, Jan Drew makes MASSIVE
advertising for the naturopathic mafia.
And: Jan Drew abuses the name of god.
TEN YEARS NOW.
And Jan Drew, despite all kind or tough pleas NOT to stalk people, continious
with here crimionakl behavior.
I think that TEN YEARS really is enough time that has been given to her top
stop. And now, there definitely is an end.
Janet Mae Stidd, married to Mr. Drew on 25th, november, 1970, living in
Bloomington, Indiana, do cease and desist your crimes!
In the matter of Jan Drew abusing the name of god another detail shows up: the
Seventh Day Adventist Church
301 E Matlock Rd
Bloomington, IN
(812) 332-5025
In its gone web-site the have some strong words concerning their being so very
special:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031223034424/bloomingtonsda.org/handbook.htm
<quote>
Home | Up | Feedback | Contents | Search
ACA Handbook Excerpts
Purpose
Aims & Objectives
Requirements for Admission
PURPOSE
In a state in which public schools offer excellent educational
opportunities at public expense, a private school should have a special reason
for its existence.
Adventist Christian Academy , with the unique standards and
***********************************************************
character of the Seventh-day Adventist Church , differs
*******************************************************
sufficiently from the public school to justify its establishment.
*****************************************************************
Christian principles, as practiced by Seventh-day Adventists, have first place
in determining the policies of Adventist Christian Academy .
The following quotation defines the Seventh-day Adventist concept of Christian
education: “True education means more than the pursuit of a certain course
of study. It means more than a preparation for the life that now is. It has to
do with the whole being and with the whole period of existence possible to man.
It is the harmonious development of the physical, the mental, and the spiritual
powers. It prepares the student for the joy of service in this world, and for
the higher joy of wider service in the world to come.” Education, p. 13.
Seventh-day Adventists sincerely believe that Christ is coming literally to this
earth to claim His own, but before He comes, the gospel is to be taken into all
the world. “With such an army of workers as our youth, rightly trained,
might furnish, how soon the message of a
crucified, risen, and soon-coming Savior might be carried to the whole
world.” Education, p. 271. Adventist Christian Academy begins the
training of its youth in this high responsibility.
Adventist Christian Academy offers grades K through 8 of formal education.
Our school provides a state-approved curriculum and is supervised and
accredited through the Education Department of the Indiana Conference of
Seventh-Day Adventists.
AIMS AND OBJECTIVES
“And Jesus increased in wisdom�”
Skills and Knowledge -- To teach the value and necessity of the mental habits
of application and concentration. To provide the acquisition of common skills
and knowledge essential to scholastic progress. To engender a love of learning
that will be carried throughout their life here in this world and into the world
to come.
“�And Stature�”
Health and Recreation -- To promote the study and practice of the
principles of health and temperance, in the belief that mental and spiritual
vigor are in a great degree dependent upon physical health, strength and
activity. To guide students in making good choices regarding recreation and
leisure time.
“�And in favor with God�”
Relationship to God -- To instill a knowledge of God and love for Him and for
Jesus Christ
who came into the world to be its Redeemer. To establish belief and practice in
the essential relational experience of faith and prayer. To develop respect and
reverence for the Bible as the divine Word of God, including the Ten
Commandments as the rule of guidance for a complete life.
Character -- To present the ideals of true culture and encourage an appreciation
of what is pure, true, noble, right and beautiful. To develop an inward
fortitude against evil and a sense of personal
responsibility in the application of spiritual, social, moral and physical laws
that should govern individual conduct.
“�And with man.” Luke 2:52
Home and Family -- To awaken an appreciation of home, where love is the
motivating power in the life of every member of the family.
Citizenship -- To inspire love of country, loyalty to country, and respect for
recognized authority.
Service -- To establish in the minds and hearts of the students the Christian
motive of service and concern for others as opposed to the incentive of selfish
rivalry. To emphasize the value and dignity of labor in the development of
character and in carrying out the responsibilities of life.
REQUIREMENTS FOR ADMISSION
Adventist Christian Academy admits students of any race, color, or ethnic
origin, to all the rights, privileges, programs, and activities generally
accorded or made available to students. In administration of its
educational policies it does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, or
ethnic origin.
Adventist Christian Academy is operated especially for the youth of the
Seventh-day Adventist faith. It is a privilege, not a right to attend A.C.A.
However, as space permits, a student who is not a member of the Seventh-day
Adventist church may be admitted. It is expected that all students will uphold
the standards of Adventist Christian Academy and will cheerfully endeavor to
live in harmony with the principles of the school. Parents who, after
consultation with the teacher and the principal, find themselves in disagreement
with the practices or policies of the school may be asked to withdraw their
student.
It is recommended that students not be entered in school before they reach the
age of six years. Parents of each Kindergarten student must present the
student’s birth certificate to the school by July 1st.
Students may be required to undergo testing before acceptance or during the
first month of the school year. If satisfactory achievement scores are on file
at A.C.A., testing may be omitted. The school reserves the right, after testing
an applicant and counseling with the parents, to change the grade placement to
one more suitable for the student. The school may not be equipped or
sufficiently staffed to offer continuous remedial help to students with special
needs.
Applicants for admission must submit a standard application blank, properly
filled out, which will be presented to the A.C.A. Board for final approval.
New and returning students should have a G.P.A. of 2.0 (or equivalent) in order
to be considered for admission. Students with a recent scholastic performance
below 2.0 will be subject to the Scholastic Probation Policy. Deviation from
this standard may be done only at the discretion of the school board.
Scholastic Probation will be in effect the first nine weeks following
admittance. It will be required that the student improve their G.P.A. to a
current 2.0 or above within the following nine week period. Continued
monitoring of the student’s G.P.A. will be evaluated every three weeks for
the next nine weeks. Failure to meet this standard may result in dismissal.
Re-admittance during the next or subsequent school years will be evaluated on an
individual basis, subject to the previous
year’s performance. Also, scholastic performance at any time during the
school year, which falls below 2.0 for any nine-week grading period, will result
in a Scholastic Probation as outlined above.
If at any time during the school year the A.C.A. faculty believes a student
needs professional evaluation, and/or testing for learning, behavioral or
attention disorders, it is the parents’ responsibility to arrange for such
examination and make the results available to A.C.A. faculty in a timely manner
(as determined by the principal). If this requirement is not met, the student
*****************************************************************************
may be asked to withdraw from school.
*****************************************************************************
Send mail to webm...@bloomingtonadventist.org with questions or comments about
this web site.
Last modified: December 18, 2003
</quote>
I do not know if Janet Mae Stidd, married Drew, is part of the "Seventh-day
Adventist Church" of Bloomington, Indiana. But it seems that
<quote>
"the unique standards and
*******************************************************
character of the Seventh-day Adventist Church , differs
*******************************************************
sufficiently from the public school to justify its establishment.
*****************************************************************
</quote>
Perhaps the "Seventh-day Adventist Church" of Bloomington, Indiana, could have
some influence on her. Unless she already
<quote>
may be asked to withdraw from school.
</quote>
You do know it: The bible is a book about war. It is full of blood shedding and
cruelty.
These are words by Jan Drew:
<quote>
Wow - Debbee is calling people "Miss Busy Body" - and stating it isn't our
business to know *who" she is, *what" she does for a living, or *where* she
lives. Yet, she sees fit to get into other people's
business, calling their employers, etc. and giving fictious and
defamatory information.
What a piece of work you are Debbee!
</quote>
Jan Drew, THAT "piece of work", has no problem with calling employers, whith
making complaints, etc,...
Janet Mae Stidd, "Jan Drew", attacks other persons' families. She never gives
pardon, she never apologizes, not even for the greatest lie or assault.
She has no mercy, she lets children die - consequence of the false advice she
gives.
To follow her medical claims can lead to the death of your children and of
yourself.
Peter Bowditch
>On Dec 25, 9:19?pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 25, 8:36?pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/12/22/Why-Ske...
>>
>> http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/mercola_sells_the_delusion_...
>
>The webpage cannot be found
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/mercola_sells_the_delusion_of_homeopathy.php
Feel free to supply the Pavlovian response "oracnosnuffin".
Merry Newtonmas and Happy New Year.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Mark Probert
Thanks Jan. I would not want anyone to be deprived of Orac's
excellent, well documented, analysis of the huckster known as
Mercola.
That should take care of the problem.
Mark Probert
Incorrect. He still has the right to MD, since it is the degree he
earned.
Mark Probert
Wise move, vis-a-vis PeterB.
As for Chung, he is just amusing
PeterB - Original
>
> >>>> John is a spammer. He hardly replies to his threads as he knows them to
> >>>> be misleading at best.
>
> >>> John has been posting noteworthy articles here for years and is not a
> >>> spammer.
>
> >> John has not posted any noteworthy articles, IMHO. Of course, my
> >> standards are based on science and not nonsense.
>
> > Is that why you fail to produce a shred of scientific evidence when
> > challenged to do so? John cites articles from sources you spuriously
> > claim are not to be trusted, while refusing to back your own claims
> > with any published science whatsoever.
>
> That's utter bull. If you do a search of my posts, you will see that I
> do support my views with science.
Even in this post, when challenged to do so, you do not.
> >>> You've been here a few months posting nothing but personal
> >>> attacks and industry propaganda on behalf of your sponsors.
>
> >> Can you please tell who those sponsors are? I would love to get some of
> >> that money!
>
> > Should I be skeptical that you claim to represent the interests of
> > industry pro bono?
>
> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14348176/
>
> I represent one person, me.
You defend the interests of industry and so your denial is
meaningless.
So you don't know that this is the most common type of cancer making
up ~85% of all cancers. So much for your medical training.
> That hardly supports the claim that most people
> with cancer are not helped by chemotherapy.
As most people with cancer suffer from that particular type of cancer,
that's exactly what it means. I'm sure you'll have a bizarre
definition for "helped by chemotherapy" that includes "wasn't
immediately fatal" or "comes with a pop sickle," but please don't say
it's just because you say so.
> > In brief, he compiled survival times in patients treated for
> > the most common and fatal adenocarcinomas, including breast and colon
> > cancer. He found that small-cell lung cancer was the "only carcinoma
> > for which good direct evidence of a survival improvement by
> > chemotherapy exists."
>
> Please explain why most people in the US with cancer achieve a five-year
> disease-free survival, which is usually considered a cure.
One factor is the inclusion of survival times for cancers once
considered pre-cancerous, such as ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS.)
This is effectively a stage 0 cancer and has an almost 100% cure
rate. It wasn't counted in earlier tracking but is now, so it also
artificially inflates survival times. On your second point, if cancer
kills you at some future date, you were obviously never cured. Only
industry marketing would apply the word "cure" to a disease that
ultimately kills you anyway, and here you are defending it.
> > Unfortunately, the survival improvement he
> > noted was only three months, not a compelling reason to endure the
> > life-changing and brutal effects of chemotherapy. You've been asked
> > before to produce a published source to support your counter claim,
> > but you came up short. And here again, nothing.
>
> visit cancer.gov.
Not good enough. If you can't cite data supporting your claims, you
don't have one. And don't try the usual "you have to prove that it
doesn't work" nonsense, because evidence based medicine should be
based on evidence that exists and is easily cited. The reason you
can't do it is because your claims are based on evidence that isn't
there.
> >> However, most people who have
> >> cancer will have a 5-year disease-free survival. This is often
> >> considered a cure.
>
> > That is typically based on earlier detection, meaning you don't live
> > any longer but are aware of your disease sooner.
>
> Bull.
"...cancer cure rates [since the 1950s] average only about one
percent.” -Dr. James Watson, Nobel Laureate who discovered DNA and
was a member of the National Cancer Advisory Board. He also referred
to the war on cancer as a "bunch of shit." His words, not mine.
> > Another of the
> > pharmaceutical industry's dirty little tricks designed to conceal the
> > failure of chemotherapy drugs. If I'm wrong, where is your published
> > science?
>
> pubmed.gov.
IOW, you cannot cite specific science that is the basis for your
opinions. Typical.
> >> In addition, this is a big deal to their families.
>
> > Earlier detection just means people have stress for longer while
> > enduring a harsh "treatment" that doesn't extend life.
>
> Bull. I guess you have never worked in a hospital as a physician.
Are you suggesting that a particular physician can know the true
average of treatment success based only on his practice? Where on
earth did you get your education?
> >> Imagine that a grandparent of a 7-year-old kid learns he has CML. Now,
> >> with Gleevec, the grandparent may only live 5 years (vs. 1 year without
> >> it). The child and his parents will have the grandparent for 4
> >> additional priceless years.
>
> > You disagreed that *most* cancers are not effectively treated using
> > such drugs, however Chronic myeloid leukaemia is very rare. Yes, the
> > drug appears to effectively extend life in those with CML, though it a
> > very dangerous drug. This example, however, does not support your
> > argument since CML is not common.
>
> Actually, it does. Read you previous statement. And, while not common,
> look up the survival statistics for childhood cancer.
More hand waiving. A pharmnut's favorite thing to do.
> And how is Gleevec a very dangerous drug?
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/gleevec-side-effects.html
> >> I find the pile-on comment funny, too. The fact is that most natural
> >> methods are not proven. And, they don't work.
>
> > Give me a list of such methods that you think are not proven. You
> > can't do it, can you?
>
> Just about every alternative treatment. Start with homeopathy.
I ask for a list of all these unproven treatments and you give me
one. Telling.
> >> The fact is that this group is "sci.med" which means science and
> >> medicine. That is what this group is about. Not conjecture-based medicine.
>
> > So stop conjecturing, Dr. Doo-LITTLE.
>
> Nice name-calling. That is the best alties can do.
Don't blame me because you can't produce the actual science on which
your opinions are based.
Peter B
============================================
Peter B
"Jan Drew" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5afa8b7a-6794-409b...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> Troll "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com>
Sorry Jan, no one would troll for you.
Peter B
What to look for while participating in Usenet newsgroups:
1. Astroturfing on Usenet?
======================================================
Now that is funny, astroturfing? Laying down a plastic carpet that
simulates natural grass?
Who it the idiot that came up with that concept? That is totally
senseless
Then comes the turn "turfing"? Give me a break I have heard ridiculous
terminology but that just takes the cake.
Then the association with blogging and the Usenet? Someone is really,
really ignorant and evidently trying to seem more knowledgeable than
they are. Only a true moron could be so stupid.
So who was it that came up with these idiocies?
Peter B
"Citizen Jimserac" <jims...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3a4e20e-0874-44ee...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Citizen Jimserac
===========================================
Yeah, he hated to be reminded that he is a child molester and abuser of
his own daughters.
Jan Drew
(0.39 seconds)
Jan Drew
scientist with an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone,
somewhere might actually give a rodent's posterior about his
miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to
admit to himself that few will. (Continued here, along with a
DISCLAIMER that you should read before reading any medical discussions
here.)
Jan Drew
Nonsense deleted
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5afa8b7a-6794-409b...@o28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Poor troll. There is no such place.
Jan Drew
Peter B
Nonsense deleted.
===============================================
Smartest thing you have done in years, honest too.
Jan Drew
> "Citizen Jimserac" <jimse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
That is Peter B (whith a space).
The real one is PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com>
Peter B
> Results 1 - 10 of about 2,610 for happy....@ariplex.com
> Bullshit.
> (0.39 seconds)
>
Notice Jan's use of foul language.
Peter B
========================================================
No one said there was except you, since there was nothing there you
disappeared.
You may want to dbl check all your messages, they just might be going to
la la land.
Peter B
Wrote nothing of import.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 26, 7:42 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
>
> Nonsense deleted
You deleted your own post?
Great. There may be hope for you yet.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:6876b44a-85b4-4ebc...@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
Jan Drew
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:deec4b67-b4da-4dc7...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Not Found
>
Troll.
Jan Drew
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2f83f24d-c13e-4cfb...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Results 1 - 10 of about 2,610 for happy.oys...@ariplex.com
> > Bullshit.
> > (0.39 seconds)
>
> Notice Jan's use of foul language.
Um, troll................................
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,610 for happy.oys...@ariplex.com
> > Bullshit.
> > (0.39 seconds)
That's Yappy, not me.
Peter B
=======================================================
Then why waste your time lying?
You bored?
Peter B
Um, troll................................
===========================================
Really? Then how did your keyboard do it?
Peter B
Not Found
>
>Troll.
>
Not found
john
Peter B
"john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote in message
news:neSdnaaDLcceJqTW...@bt.com...
> Indian gov using homeopathy
They've had witch doctors for centuries.
Mark Probert
> Indian gov using homeopathyhttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/homeopathy12.html
India is suffering from an epidemic of polio.
Jan Drew
Mark Probert
So what? The fact is, where homeoquackery is ued, like in India, there
is diseases like P O L I O.
You are old enough to remember that.
dr_jeff
There is homeopathy practiced in the US. And, there are outbreaks of
measles and other preventable diseases because of the quacks.
Jeff
Peter B
"dr_jeff" <u...@msu.edu> wrote in message
news:l9ednWvnx8apaafW...@giganews.com...
It gets even worse than that. In Los Angeles there are "Pharmacia's"
springing up with the same who doo medical advice that they are used to
across the borders in rural Mexico. These are not the legal pharmacies,
although some are, and some are an extension of a chain in Mexico. Right
next door to these are people who recommend drugs, see patients for
their ailments and treat them. Not real Doctors mind you but the typical
Madam woo hoo voo doo of male voo doo types. They are all over the
southland along with the oriental herb type "healers". I hat to think
what all the diseases are they breed before they hit the emergency
rooms.
It is fun driving through these areas, interesting shops, cultures,
gifts n gadgets, as long as you have your windows up for safety and a
fresh hepa filter in the A/C.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:90bfea7d-82ae-4c47...@j24g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
See this and other pharmnuts working for their supper, at:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med/msg/f569f86c8ed22f4e
john
does anyone reply to Probert? Why on earth would anyone do that?
PeterB - Original
>
> It is fun driving through these areas, interesting shops, cultures,
> gifts n gadgets, as long as you have your windows up for safety and a
> fresh hepa filter in the A/C.
Good idea, we wouldn't want you spreading whatever it is you have to
the "natives."
PeterB - Original
> On Dec 29, 5:28 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 29, 1:44 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 3:19 am, "john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Indian gov using homeopathyhttp://www.whale.to/vaccine/homeopathy12.html
>
> > > India is suffering from an epidemic of polio.
>
> >http://www.heel.com.au/homotoxicology/index.shtml
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7998884.stm
>
> > http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/3/3/293
>
> So what?
Proving once again that you don't believe in evidence based medicine,
much less understand it.
> The fact is, where homeoquackery is ued, like in India, there
> is diseases like P O L I O.
And in the US, where vaccines are used, the rate of child mortality is
higher than in countries where vaccines are used less aggressively.
Plus, no one ever said that homeopathy prevents Polio.
PeterB - Original
Great links, Jan. Germany has been a leader in plant-based medicine
for a long time. Two of the study findings you cited were very
notable...
"An interesting multicenter, prospective, observational study in a
real world medical setting compared the effectiveness of homeopathy
with conventional medicine (65). Thirty investigators with
conventional medical licenses at six clinical sites in four countries
enrolled a series of patients with at least one of the following three
complaints: upper respiratory tract complaints including allergies;
lower respiratory tract complaints including allergies; or ear
complaints. Four hundred and fifty-six patient visits were compared.
In any case, homeopathy appeared to be AT LEAST AS EFFECTIVE as
conventional medical care in the treatment of patients with these
three conditions." [Caps added for emphasis]
So homeopathy was *at least as effective* at treating these conditions
as drugs. In light of the lower risk of side effects with natural
medicine, that's a nod in favor of homeopathy.
"The first report of classical homeopathy is relatively recent, dating
in 1997 when Friese et al. (59) reported an open study comparing the
results obtained treating otitis media in children, treated using two
different medical approaches. They compared classical unitary
homeopathic remedies (Aconitum, Apis mel., Belladonna, Lachesis,
Pulsatilla, Silicea, Lycopodium, Chamomilla and Capsicum) prescribed
after an individual homeopathic case analysis, with conventional
therapy based on antibiotics, mucolytics and antipyretics. The
duration of pain was 2 days in the homeopathic group and 3 days in the
conventional therapy group and the duration of therapy was 4 and 10
days, respectively. The latter difference was statistically
significant, but it should be noted that the duration of antibiotic
therapy for these conditions cannot be shorter than a week, so this
comparison may not reflect the clinical outcomes. In brief, this
pragmatic study comparing homeopathic with conventional therapy showed
that results were similar, but WITH A TREND IN FAVOR OF
HOMEOPATHY." [Caps added for emphasis]
Of course, Markey says "so what" and suggests that Polio would not
exist if homeopathy worked. Of course, he also claims to read medical
literature and understand science. All we really know is that he took
comedy classes. And I'm not kidding!
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> does anyone reply to Probert? Why on earth would anyone do that?
They desire intelligent discourse.
PeterB - Original
No, that's not it. But your comedy classes are coming along nicely.
Peter Bowditch
>Plus, no one ever said that homeopathy prevents Polio.
"Lathyrus was found to work against polio"
http://www.desbio.com/introducing-homeopathy.html
"Polio Prophylaxis With regard to polio, in 1850 Taylor Smith in
Johannesburg, South Africa used the nosode Lathyrus to protect 82
people against polio � no cases were reported. Arthur Hill Grimmer MD
reported that over 5,000 children received homeopathic Lathyrus sativa
to prevent polio with 100% efficacy and no one experienced any side
effects to his knowledge. There are reports of Heisfelder, in a study
between 1956-58, homeopathically �vaccinated� over 6,000 children with
Lathyrus, none of which contracted polio. In 1975, Lathyrus was given
to 30,000 � 40,000 (the number varies depending on the researcher
reporting) individuals during a Buenos Aires polio epidemic, and not
one of these patients reported contracting polio. (Reported by
Eizayaga)"
http://www.slideshare.net/drprabhatlkw/homeopathy-in-pandemics-epidemics
"Other homeopaths found that "Lathyrus" is able to prevent polio.
"Mercurius Cyanatus" was effective in preventing diphtheria.
"Baptisia" was useful for preventing typhoid fever. The list went on
for measles, mumps, chicken pox, hepatitis, etc..
But it is not only in ancient history that we find compelling
evidence that nosodes can and do provide effective immunization. Take
Polio as an example:
1850-Taylor Smith in Johannesburg, South Africa immunized 82 people
with "Lathyrus". 12 of the 82 were in direct contact with disease in
an epidemic area. There were no cases reported in any of the 82-a 100%
success.
More recent times-Grimmer in Chicago `vaccinated' 5,000 young children
with "Lathyrus". None of them developed polio.
Heisfelder, in a study between 1956-58, immunized over 6,000 children
with this nosode. There were no side effects and no cases of polio.
In 1975, during a polio epidemic in Buenos Aires, "Lathyrus" was given
to 40,000 people. Not one of these developed polio"
http://www.cyberpet.com/dogs/articles/health/nosodes.htm
What was that you said" Oh, that's right: "no one ever said that
homeopathy prevents Polio".
Yes, they did.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Citizen Jimserac
wrote:...
On the issue of Homeopathic prophylaxis, quite a different aspect
than the Homeopathic curative effect, I cannot at this time support
the claims of effective prophylaxis and yes there are indeed numerous
reports, just reports, of success in prevention via various
Homeopathic administrations, including for the prevention of polio.
I have in front of me quite an interesting book by a dedicated, even
brilliant Homeopathic practitioner, "The Collected Works of Arthur
Hill Grimmer MD".
It is a collection of papers, observations, unpublished articles and
other material, perhaps not originally intended by the author for book
publication, and therefore at times unpolished, but otherwise an
intriguing and interesting collection of notes by a great Homeopath.
Regarding polio, Grimmer states:
"For prophylactic purposes, I have always given the epidemic remedy,
i.e. the remedy of the genus epidemicus - after I had found it, but
where no epidemic remedy is known, we have in Lath.,[i.e. Lathyrs] a
powerful and certain protection against the ravages of this frightful
malady. Over 5000 children have been easily and positively protected
by this remedy in my hands; given once a week in the 30th potency,
during the period of the epidemic. Later years, I have given the 10M.
potency at intervals of 30 days with complete protection. Many of
these children had been directly exposed to the disease, yet evinced
no symptoms of sickness while under the remedy." (Collected Works,
page 178)
While this is of interest and is a RED FLAG for researchers to
investigate it, and while we have no reason to doubt the claims of Dr.
Grimmer whose dedication and expertise in Homeopathy are quite well
known, we cannot rely on this for any serious program of immunization
without confirmational and properly controlled studies.
If there is any preventative effect, particularly in the case of so
serious a disease as polio, by Homeopathic remedies, then it is ABOUT
TIME that it be investigated and vindicated or denied.
Countries such as Cuba are already undertaking large scale Homeopathic
immunizations, in their case against seasonal epidemics of
Leptospirosis - must we wait for THEIR research or can we do it
ourselves? One would hope that the NIH, which already has a small but
significant amount allocated for alternative medicine research, could
investigate it and stop the guessing games once and for all.
Citizen Jimserac (James Pannozzi)
Happy Oyster
wrote:
>On Dec 31 2009, 12:28�am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com>
>wrote:
>> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>
>...
>
>On the issue of Homeopathic prophylaxis, quite a different aspect
>than the Homeopathic curative effect, I cannot at this time support
>the claims of effective prophylaxis and yes there are indeed numerous
>reports, just reports, of success in prevention via various
>Homeopathic administrations, including for the prevention of polio.
No.
.
--
Die volle H�rte: http://www.kindersprechstunde.at
***************************************************************
Die Medienmafia � Die Regividerm-Verschw�rung
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/showtopic.php?threadid=5710
Citizen Jimserac
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:42:11 -0800 (PST), CitizenJimserac<jimse...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 31 2009, 12:28 am, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com>
> >wrote:
> >> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
> >...
>
> >On the issue of Homeopathic prophylaxis, quite a different aspect
> >than the Homeopathic curative effect, I cannot at this time support
> >the claims of effective prophylaxis and yes there are indeed numerous
> >reports, just reports, of success in prevention via various
> >Homeopathic administrations, including for the prevention of polio.
>
> No.
>
Oh?
Citizen Jimserac
Mark Probert
Wrong. It is H. O.
Please make sure you get it right.
Jan Drew
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL!!! He was asking Oh?
DTABORS