Vaccine mercury danger

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Roger Schlafly

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Nov 11, 2002, 1:57:28 AM11/11/02
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Today's NY Times Magazine tells the story of how one the top USA vaccine
advocates, Neal Halsey, became a critic when he discovered that thimerosal
(a mercury compound) in vaccines could be causing an epidemic of autism:

And then suddenly in June 1999, during a visit to the Food and Drug
Administration, a squall appeared on the horizon of Halsey's confidence.
Halsey attended a meeting to discuss thimerosal, a mercury-containing
preservative that at the time was being used in several vaccines --
including the hepatitis B shot that Halsey had fought so hard to have
administered to American babies. By the time the dust kicked up in that
meeting had settled, Halsey would be forced to reckon with the hypothesis
that thimerosal had damaged the brains of immunized infants and may have
contributed to the unexplained explosion in the number of cases of autism
being diagnosed in children.

Making matters worse, the latest science on mercury damage suggested
that even small amounts of organic mercury could do harm to the fetal brain.
Some of the federal safety guidelines on mercury were relaxed in the 90's,
even as the amount of mercury that children received in vaccines increased.
The more Halsey learned about these mercury studies, the more he worried.

The article explains how others in the vaccine establishment wanted to cover
up the mercury problem. Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's
Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full disclosure
can be harmful''.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html


JG

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Nov 11, 2002, 3:43:27 PM11/11/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:OxIz9.410$zN.109...@twister1.starband.net...

> Today's NY Times Magazine tells the story of how one the top USA vaccine
> advocates, Neal Halsey, became a critic when he discovered that thimerosal
> (a mercury compound) in vaccines could be causing an epidemic of autism:

Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's


> Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full
disclosure
> can be harmful''.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html

Great article; thanks for posting it. Didn't take long for
"antivaccinationists" to enter the vaccine-pushers lexicon, did it? <g>:

"Stanley Plotkin*, a renowned vaccine developer, said that it was fruitless
to try to soothe vaccination critics. 'If antivaccinationists did not have
mercury, they would have another issue,' he said at one meeting."

*Go to http://www.sabin.org/PDF/SVR_No1_Vol5_02.pdf (page 7) to find out
more about Plotkin.

JG

I eagerly await the day when taxpayers can keep all the money they earn, and
pro sports teams have to hold bake sales in order to finance stadium
construction.
--Doug Newman, The Fountain of Truth


Mark Probert

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Nov 11, 2002, 3:45:23 PM11/11/02
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"JG" <jg03...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:PDUz9.47248$Lg2.13...@news2.news.adelphia.net...

> "Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:OxIz9.410$zN.109...@twister1.starband.net...
> > Today's NY Times Magazine tells the story of how one the top USA vaccine
> > advocates, Neal Halsey, became a critic when he discovered that
thimerosal
> > (a mercury compound) in vaccines could be causing an epidemic of autism:
>
> Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's
> > Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full
> disclosure
> > can be harmful''.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html
>
> Great article; thanks for posting it. Didn't take long for
> "antivaccinationists" to enter the vaccine-pushers lexicon, did it? <g>:

Incorrectly spelled, I may add. The correct spelling is
'antivaccinationistas'.

Mark Probert

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Nov 11, 2002, 3:50:07 PM11/11/02
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"JG" <jg03...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:PDUz9.47248$Lg2.13...@news2.news.adelphia.net...
> "Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:OxIz9.410$zN.109...@twister1.starband.net...
> > Today's NY Times Magazine tells the story of how one the top USA vaccine
> > advocates, Neal Halsey, became a critic when he discovered that
thimerosal
> > (a mercury compound) in vaccines could be causing an epidemic of autism:
>
> Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's
> > Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full
> disclosure
> > can be harmful''.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html
>
> Great article; thanks for posting it. Didn't take long for
> "antivaccinationists" to enter the vaccine-pushers lexicon, did it? <g>:
>
> "Stanley Plotkin*, a renowned vaccine developer, said that it was
fruitless
> to try to soothe vaccination critics. 'If antivaccinationists did not have
> mercury, they would have another issue,' he said at one meeting."
>
> *Go to http://www.sabin.org/PDF/SVR_No1_Vol5_02.pdf (page 7) to find out
> more about Plotkin.

Damn. His bio says he reallyknows what he is talking about.

BTW, I mentioned the same thing, in other venues, about the
antivaccinationistas. When one of their pet scaremongering theories is shot
down, they come up with another pet fearmongering theory until that one is
shot down.

Good thing that the vaccinationists are long on facts.

Definition: facts: ammunition to shoot down antivaccinationistas
fearmonering.


Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 11, 2002, 5:28:22 PM11/11/02
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Don't beleive everything you read. Halsey, the doctor who was featured in
the article beleives that mercury DID NOT contribute autism.
http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgDate=11/11/2002&prgId=3

All the best,

Wyle

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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Mark Probert

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Nov 11, 2002, 9:54:19 PM11/11/02
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TAhat NPR page says:

"A New York Times Magazine article says a prominent vaccine researcher
became concerned about the safety of some childhood inoculations. But the
researcher says his views on a link with autism have been misrepresented.
NPR's Jon Hamilton reports. "

Most curious how the antivaccinationistas got it so wrong...imagine if a
pro-vac did that...

The belating and braying from the antivaccinationistas would be deafening!

"Wyle E. Coyote, M.D." <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EC797101BD379F3.978E4B68...@lp.airnews.net...

HCN

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Nov 11, 2002, 10:08:19 PM11/11/02
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I suspect

"Wyle E. Coyote, M.D." <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EC797101BD379F3.978E4B68...@lp.airnews.net...
> Don't beleive everything you read. Halsey, the doctor who was featured in
> the article beleives that mercury DID NOT contribute autism.
> http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgDate=11/11/2002&prgId=3
>
> All the best,
>
> Wyle
>
> "Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:OxIz9.410$zN.109...@twister1.starband.net...
......

> >
> > The article explains how others in the vaccine establishment wanted to
> cover
> > up the mercury problem. Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's
> > Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full
> disclosure
> > can be harmful''.
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html
> >
> >
>
>

I suspect that even the Offit quote is take out of context:
http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2065.htm


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 11, 2002, 10:40:15 PM11/11/02
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"Wyle " <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote

> Don't beleive everything you read. Halsey, the doctor who was featured in
> the article beleives that mercury DID NOT contribute autism.
> http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgDate=11/11/2002&prgId=3

The gubmnt is doing damage control here. Halsey believes that the
vaccine in mercury is more likely to have caused learning disorders
other than autism. And the NPR program has Offit saying that
the public should not get the info in the NYTimes article.

From the article:

''My first concern was that it would harm the credibility of the
immunization program,'' he [Halsey] says. ''But gradually it came home to me
that maybe there was some real risk to the children.'' Mercury was turning
out to be like lead, which had been studied extensively in the homes of the
Baltimore poor during Halsey's tenure at Hopkins. ''As they got more
sophisticated at testing for lead, the safe level marched down and down, and
they continued to find subtle neurological impairment,'' Halsey says. ''And
that's almost exactly what happened with mercury.''

Halsey was beginning to think that it would be prudent to limit
thimerosal-containing vaccines and urge pediatricians to use thimerosal-free
shots when possible. But his decision inflamed some of his peers. After all,
although the thimerosal data was worrisome to Halsey, the available science
offered no clear proof that the preservative posed a genuine danger to
children when given in parts per million. Moreover, it wasn't clear that
there were enough thimerosal-free vaccines available for diseases like
pertussis and hepatitis B. Should an unproven fear justify the cessation of
a procedure that protected children from proven dangers?


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 11, 2002, 10:44:12 PM11/11/02
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"JG" <jg03...@adelphia.net> wrote

> "Stanley Plotkin*, a renowned vaccine developer, said that it was
fruitless
> to try to soothe vaccination critics. 'If antivaccinationists did not have
> mercury, they would have another issue,' he said at one meeting."

Yes, remember that when considering official recommendations. They
are made drug industry insiders who have attitudes like Plotkin's.


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 11, 2002, 11:33:02 PM11/11/02
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"Mark Probert" <mark_prober...@hotmail.com> wrote

> "A New York Times Magazine article says a prominent vaccine researcher
> became concerned about the safety of some childhood inoculations. But the
> researcher says his views on a link with autism have been misrepresented.
> NPR's Jon Hamilton reports. "

Amazing how the official propagandists are backtracking!

NPR wants to make an issue about whether the mercury caused
autism or some other neurological damage. The NYT article actually
explains it correctly.


D. C. Sessions

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Nov 11, 2002, 11:50:11 PM11/11/02
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Roger Schlafly wrote:
> "Wyle " <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote

>> Don't beleive everything you read. Halsey, the doctor who was featured in
>> the article beleives that mercury DID NOT contribute autism.
>> http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgDate=11/11/2002&prgId=3
>
> The gubmnt is doing damage control here. Halsey believes that the
> vaccine in mercury is more likely to have caused learning disorders
> other than autism. And the NPR program has Offit saying that
> the public should not get the info in the NYTimes article.

Excellent, Rog. You've just predicted that the rates of these
learning disabilities will decline precipitously now that
thimerosol has been removed from paediatric vaccines in the USA.

Care to make this interesting?
I'll put a few hundred in escrow if you will.

--
| In the course of every project there comes a time |
| when the best debugger is a can of gasoline. |

Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 12:31:47 AM11/12/02
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"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote i

> > > Paul Offit, a vaccinologist at the Children's
> > > Hospital of Philadelphia, said: ''In some instances I think full
> > disclosure can be harmful''.
> > > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/magazine/10AUTISM.html
> I suspect that even the Offit quote is take out of context:
> http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2065.htm

Why? That page of his says:

"the controversy surrounding vaccines has diverted attention and resources
away from a number of promising leads."

Sounds consistent to me.


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 12:40:58 AM11/12/02
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"D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote

> Excellent, Rog. You've just predicted that the rates of these
> learning disabilities will decline precipitously now that
> thimerosol has been removed from paediatric vaccines in the USA.

It will be a good test, if and when the mercury is eliminated.
A couple of the vaccines still have trace amounts in current
production, and there may still be inventory of the high-mercury
vaccines in use.


amp_spamfree

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:26:53 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<4w0A9.652$805.29...@twister1.starband.net>...

There cannot be unused mercury containing stocks in the US - we've
been there before Roger and I've given you the data that proves it.
Now stop fibbing.

Tsu Dho Nimh

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Nov 12, 2002, 6:46:29 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote:


>The gubmnt is doing damage control here. Halsey believes that the
>vaccine in mercury is more likely to have caused learning disorders
>other than autism. And the NPR program has Offit saying that
>the public should not get the info in the NYTimes article.

So in a few years, the rate of learning disorders should
PLUMMET because thimerosol has been REMOVED from pediatric
vaccines.

Take the bet, Roger. Put your money where your mouth is.

Tsu

--
To doubt everything or to believe everything
are two equally convenient solutions; both
dispense with the necessity of reflection.
- Jules Henri Poincaré

Tsu Dho Nimh

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Nov 12, 2002, 6:47:34 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote:

So you are weaseling out already? Chicken?

The inventory was depeleted ... shortages of pediatric vaccines
were being reported all last year.

Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:07:20 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ow%z9.642$xB2.28...@twister1.starband.net...

Spin...spin..spin...weasel....weasel....weasel...cannot handle that the
anti-vacs actually spun it worng and were caught...tsk...tsk...tsk...


Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:12:39 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ow%z9.642$xB2.28...@twister1.starband.net...

Roger, I am listening to the NPR report again.

You are wrong. Halsey says that there is no evidence that the vaccines cause
autism, and that those who question vaccine safety should provide more
evidence that there is a danger.

IOW, Halsey says you are wrong, and that the burden of proof is on you to
prove your contentions.

And, you should try to...or quit making the scaremongering claims.


Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:13:10 AM11/12/02
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"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote in message
news:zg_z9.2590$yA6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

Listen to the NPR report.


Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:18:31 AM11/12/02
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"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote in message
news:zg_z9.2590$yA6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

BTW, a great link, which clearly refutes the darling of the liars.


Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:21:59 AM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4w0A9.652$805.29...@twister1.starband.net...

> "D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
> > Excellent, Rog. You've just predicted that the rates of these
> > learning disabilities will decline precipitously now that
> > thimerosol has been removed from paediatric vaccines in the USA.
>
> It will be a good test, if and when the mercury is eliminated.
> A couple of the vaccines still have trace amounts in current
> production,

All vaccines are available in a mercury free version.

and there may still be inventory of the high-mercury
> vaccines in use.

Ask for the current versions.

>


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 11:20:20 AM11/12/02
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"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote

> > NPR wants to make an issue about whether the mercury caused
> > autism or some other neurological damage. The NYT article actually
> > explains it correctly.
> You are wrong. Halsey says that there is no evidence that the vaccines
cause
> autism, and that those who question vaccine safety should provide more
> evidence that there is a danger.

No. I just listened to it. Halsey says:

1. the NY Times title ("The Not-So-Crackpot Autism Theory") is misleading.
2. he does not believe that vaccines have caused autism.
3. his concern was that vaccines have caused other neurological damage.

The NYT article says that Halsey's concern was "subtle neurological
impairment". It seems accurate to me. If you know of some inaccuracy
in the article, then post it. The article did not attribute an autism theory
to Halsey.


HCN

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Nov 12, 2002, 3:29:56 PM11/12/02
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"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqr5p7$cgn3t$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
>
...> >

> > I suspect that even the Offit quote is take out of context:
> > http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p2065.htm
>
> Listen to the NPR report.
>
>

I did... it was great. Halsey even noted that the neurological problem
associated with the Faroe Islands was completely DIFFERENT than austism...
and Offit sounded particularly angry at the misrepresentation.

Still the "true-believers" of the evils of vaccination will probably still
continue to influence parents to not vaccinate kdis. That is until another
outbreak occurs... one that might be similar or worse than what happened
about 13 years ago. Which is truly unfortunate.

By the way... I also listened to the NPR story that was earlier in the list
about folks moving into cattle country and the "Code of the West"... that
was also great (having made it a point to move AWAY from places where folks
used come to our door asking if we've seen a stray cow and it doesn't take
45 minutes to get to the nearest store... my folks still can't understand
why we want to live someplace where you can see other houses).


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:03:11 PM11/12/02
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"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote

> I did... it was great. Halsey even noted that the neurological problem
> associated with the Faroe Islands was completely DIFFERENT than austism...

Autism is not the only neurological problem in the world. We don't
need Halsey to tell us that.

> and Offit sounded particularly angry at the misrepresentation.

Offit is the guy who tried to cover up his paid lobbying activities
for drug companies, until Congr. Burton smoked him out.

Offit said, "To publish an article like that does harm". Yeah, Offit
doesn't want people to know his role in injected mecury contaminated
HBV vaccines into healthy newborn infants.

> Still the "true-believers" of the evils of vaccination will probably still

> continue to influence parents to not vaccinate kids. ...

The vaccine critics complained about the mercury long before the
gubmnt and drug makers agreed to do anything about it. Halsey and
Offit were way behind the curve on this one.


Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:19:10 PM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> WEASELED in message
news:VUeA9.801$YH6.42...@twister1.starband.net...

> "HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote
> > I did... it was great. Halsey even noted that the neurological problem
> > associated with the Faroe Islands was completely DIFFERENT than
austism...
>
> Autism is not the only neurological problem in the world. We don't
> need Halsey to tell us that.

Your spin.

> > and Offit sounded particularly angry at the misrepresentation.
>
> Offit is the guy who tried to cover up his paid lobbying activities
> for drug companies, until Congr. Burton smoked him out.

Hogwash.

> Offit said, "To publish an article like that does harm". Yeah, Offit
> doesn't want people to know his role in injected mecury contaminated
> HBV vaccines into healthy newborn infants.

An outright lie. He was referring to the misleading articl ein the NY Times,
and was not discussing financail disclosure.


>
> > Still the "true-believers" of the evils of vaccination will probably
still
> > continue to influence parents to not vaccinate kids. ...
>
> The vaccine critics complained about the mercury long before the
> gubmnt and drug makers agreed to do anything about it. Halsey and
> Offit were way behind the curve on this one.

The removal was a political choice made necessary by the incessant lies
being told by the anti-vaccinationistas which caused people tobe
unnecessarily firghtened of vaccines. IOW, utter scaremongering. They did
the responsible thing, and remove dthe whining. However, the liars
continue...

Otherwise, there is no valid reason to remove thimerosal.


Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 7:23:53 PM11/12/02
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"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote

> > The vaccine critics complained about the mercury long before the
> > gubmnt and drug makers agreed to do anything about it. Halsey and
> > Offit were way behind the curve on this one.
> The removal was a political choice made necessary by the incessant lies
> being told by the anti-vaccinationistas which caused people tobe
> unnecessarily firghtened of vaccines. IOW, utter scaremongering.

You inject the mercury into your kid. If scaremongering was what
it took to get safer vaccines, then I am glad the consumer advocates
did it. The federal committees are owned by the drug companies,
and they don't respond to reason.


HCN

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Nov 12, 2002, 7:43:26 PM11/12/02
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"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqruo2$cqa7m$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...

Big snip

>
> Otherwise, there is no valid reason to remove thimerosal.
>

Especially from the "eeevil" MMR, which never contained it in the first
place.


Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:05:05 PM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ow%z9.642$xB2.28...@twister1.starband.net...

> "Mark Probert" <mark_prober...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > "A New York Times Magazine article says a prominent vaccine researcher
> > became concerned about the safety of some childhood inoculations. But
the
> > researcher says his views on a link with autism have been
misrepresented.
> > NPR's Jon Hamilton reports. "
>
> Amazing how the official propagandists are backtracking!

Really? When one misrepresents your views, and you correct the
misrepresentation, how is that backtracking?

> NPR wants to make an issue about whether the mercury caused
> autism or some other neurological damage. The NYT article actually
> explains it correctly.
>

Really? Have you talked to misrepresented researcher? According to him, he
had concerns that vaccines might cause subtle neurological problems, not
autism.

All the best,

Wyle

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:09:26 PM11/12/02
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Good point. I am sure that parents did not see title "The not-so-crackpot
autism theory."

All the best,

Wyle

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:uT9A9.739$ck3.38...@twister1.starband.net...

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:13:16 PM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:VK_z9.622$sD.272...@twister1.starband.net...

> "Wyle " <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Don't beleive everything you read. Halsey, the doctor who was featured
in
> > the article beleives that mercury DID NOT contribute autism.
> >
http://discover.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.jhtml?prgDate=11/11/2002&prgId=3
>
> The gubmnt

What is a "gubment"?

> is doing damage control here.

Really? I did not see any action by the "gubmnt" whatever that is.

> Halsey believes that the
> vaccine in mercury is more likely to have caused learning disorders
> other than autism.

Actually, he clearly states in the article that he has seen no proof that
mercury has caused any problems. In addition, he is also clear that he does
not believe mercury caused autism, despite the title of the article.


Clearly, these were theoretical concerns not based on any data that show
that kids who got the mercury had any damage. Nonetheless, I share his
concerns and am glad vaccines are even safer now.

All the best,

Wyle

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 12, 2002, 5:14:00 PM11/12/02
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Mercury is present in trace quantities in only one Hep B vaccine and the
DTaP vaccine.

All the best,

Wyle

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:4w0A9.652$805.29...@twister1.starband.net...

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

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Nov 12, 2002, 8:06:59 PM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:PYgA9.834$2m2.44...@twister1.starband.net...


The federal committees are owned by the drug companies? How about evidence
to back your claims?

All the best,

Wyle

Mark Probert

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Nov 12, 2002, 9:34:49 PM11/12/02
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"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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I do not believe that the thimerosal vaccines are any safer thanthe old
ones. just different.

Roger Schlafly

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:31:44 PM11/12/02
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"Wyle" <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote

> > You inject the mercury into your kid. If scaremongering was what
> > it took to get safer vaccines, then I am glad the consumer advocates
> > did it. The federal committees are owned by the drug companies,
> > and they don't respond to reason.
> The federal committees are owned by the drug companies? How about evidence
> to back your claims?

Congressman Burton held some hearings on the matter. I can dig
up the links if you don't believe it.


D. C. Sessions

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Nov 13, 2002, 12:55:13 AM11/13/02
to

Interesting choice of snips, Rog.
Surely you aren't afraid to put your money where
you mouth is?

Roger Schlafly

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 11:17:57 AM11/13/02
to
"D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote
> Surely you aren't afraid to put your money where
> you mouth is?

Sure. Not only that, I refused the HBV vaccine at my kid's
birth, and I am glad I did.


Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 5:49:22 PM11/13/02
to
I heard about the "hearings." One member of the committee has industry ties.
That does not mean that the members act based on their beliefs or that the
beliefs of the members are influenced by industry.

I meant real evidence, not conjecture.

All the best,

Wyle

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:WIjA9.871$Gx1.47...@twister1.starband.net...

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 5:50:06 PM11/13/02
to

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:fXuA9.994$Ls.565...@twister1.starband.net...


I did not know they offer parents vaccines when a kid is born. Usually, they
give them to the kids.

All the best,

Wyle

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

unread,
Nov 13, 2002, 8:08:07 PM11/13/02
to
Listen to the Doctor featured in the NYTimes article on an NPR radio station
show (I don't know if it is distributed nationally): http://www.wamu.org/dr/

Happy listening!

To your health,

Wyle

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:OxIz9.410$zN.109...@twister1.starband.net...
> Today's NY Times Magazine tells the story of how one the top USA vaccine
> advocates, Neal Halsey, became a critic when he discovered that thimerosal
> (a mercury compound) in vaccines could be causing an epidemic of autism:
>
> And then suddenly in June 1999, during a visit to the Food and Drug
> Administration, a squall appeared on the horizon of Halsey's confidence.
> Halsey attended a meeting to discuss thimerosal, a mercury-containing
> preservative that at the time was being used in several vaccines --
> including the hepatitis B shot that Halsey had fought so hard to have
> administered to American babies. By the time the dust kicked up in that
> meeting had settled, Halsey would be forced to reckon with the hypothesis
> that thimerosal had damaged the brains of immunized infants and may have
> contributed to the unexplained explosion in the number of cases of autism
> being diagnosed in children.
>
> Making matters worse, the latest science on mercury damage suggested
> that even small amounts of organic mercury could do harm to the fetal
brain.
> Some of the federal safety guidelines on mercury were relaxed in the 90's,
> even as the amount of mercury that children received in vaccines
increased.
> The more Halsey learned about these mercury studies, the more he worried.

Mark Probert

unread,
Nov 14, 2002, 8:42:04 AM11/14/02
to
Roger is already weaseling on this one.

"Wyle E. Coyote, M.D." <kidsd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:27BC06E5A651C573.D5A89B61...@lp.airnews.net...

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

unread,
Nov 14, 2002, 5:01:55 PM11/14/02
to
yes. typical for roger.

"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar096c$e450t$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...

D. C. Sessions

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 12:06:25 AM11/15/02
to
Roger Schlafly wrote:

Nice to know how confident you are of your
oh-so-certain pronouncements.

(For those who haven't followed the thread, Rog twice
snipped my offer to put a few hundred $$ in escrow
against his prediction that autism rates would drop
now that thimerosol is absent from paediatric vaccines.)

D. C. Sessions

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 12:09:28 AM11/15/02
to
Tsu Dho Nimh wrote:

> "Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The gubmnt is doing damage control here. Halsey believes that the


>>vaccine in mercury is more likely to have caused learning disorders

>>other than autism. And the NPR program has Offit saying that


>>the public should not get the info in the NYTimes article.
>

> So in a few years, the rate of learning disorders should
> PLUMMET because thimerosol has been REMOVED from pediatric
> vaccines.
>
> Take the bet, Roger. Put your money where your mouth is.

That's our Roger. He's certain enough to (repeatedly, with
great confidence) advise parents to risk their childrens'
health and lives by not vaccinating, but not sure enough
to put a few dollars on what he *tells* us is a sure thing.

D. C. Sessions

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 12:11:06 AM11/15/02
to
Mark Probert wrote:

> Roger is already weaseling on this one.

Hey, he's admitted that he doesn't really believe it.
It's all just talk to him. It's not like other peoples'
kids actually *matter* or anything.

Mark Probert

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 8:40:16 AM11/15/02
to

"D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:blv1ra...@news.lumbercartel.com...

> Mark Probert wrote:
>
> > Roger is already weaseling on this one.
>
> Hey, he's admitted that he doesn't really believe it.
> It's all just talk to him. It's not like other peoples'
> kids actually *matter* or anything.

As far as he is concerned, they is just a bunch o' foreigners....


HCN

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 3:40:56 PM11/15/02
to

"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar2tev$es4j0$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...

Which makes me wonder about a few things:

1) If his "FAQ's" persuades more people to NOT vaccinate their kids...
doesn't that reduce the herd immunitiy and put his kids at greater risk?

2) Since the imported cases of measles recenlty have come from Korea and
Japan... does he avoid all persons who look like they may have come from
those places? And how can you do that in an academic field? I assume that
the California university system must have several students from those
countries.

3) I looked at:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5145md.htm and noticed that for
the Pacific states had over half of the more than 100 cases of measles in
the US in 2001, that California had 39 of them... about a third of the
country's total. How long before there is another outbreak like the late
80's and early 90's, where instead of 100 cases of measles there were over
100 deaths from measles?

4) How do you keep those "foreign" birds and mosquitoes from spreading
viruses (West Nile, influenza, yellow fever, etc)? Erect a huge dome over
the country?


Roger Schlafly

unread,
Nov 15, 2002, 5:49:29 PM11/15/02
to
"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote

> 1) If his "FAQ's" persuades more people to NOT vaccinate their kids...
> doesn't that reduce the herd immunitiy and put his kids at greater risk?

It's a free country. People make their own decisions.

> 2) Since the imported cases of measles recenlty have come from Korea and
> Japan... does he avoid all persons who look like they may have come from
> those places? And how can you do that in an academic field? I assume
that
> the California university system must have several students from those
> countries.

I had measles as a kid. It was no big deal. I am immune. Maybe we
should look into vaccinating the Korean and Japanese immigrants, if
they are bringing measles in.

> 3) I looked at:
> http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5145md.htm and noticed that
for
> the Pacific states had over half of the more than 100 cases of measles in
> the US in 2001, that California had 39 of them... about a third of the
> country's total. How long before there is another outbreak like the late
> 80's and early 90's, where instead of 100 cases of measles there were over
> 100 deaths from measles?

Not likely, but you are free to speculate.

> 4) How do you keep those "foreign" birds and mosquitoes from spreading
> viruses (West Nile, influenza, yellow fever, etc)? Erect a huge dome over
> the country?

West Nile is thought to have been brought in by a mideast immigrant
with a bird. Maybe we shouldn't let any mideasterners bring birds in.


amp_spamfree

unread,
Nov 16, 2002, 7:20:50 AM11/16/02
to
"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<jSeB9.387$As7.47...@twister2.starband.net>...

> "HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote
> > 1) If his "FAQ's" persuades more people to NOT vaccinate their kids...
> > doesn't that reduce the herd immunitiy and put his kids at greater risk?
>
> It's a free country. People make their own decisions.
>
> > 2) Since the imported cases of measles recenlty have come from Korea and
> > Japan... does he avoid all persons who look like they may have come from
> > those places? And how can you do that in an academic field? I assume
> that
> > the California university system must have several students from those
> > countries.
>
> I had measles as a kid. It was no big deal. I am immune. Maybe we
> should look into vaccinating the Korean and Japanese immigrants, if
> they are bringing measles in.

Sounds pretty hypocritical, the part about making your own decisions
but requiring vaccination of foreigners...or is it simply
ethnocentric?


>
> > 3) I looked at:
> > http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5145md.htm and noticed that
> for
> > the Pacific states had over half of the more than 100 cases of measles in
> > the US in 2001, that California had 39 of them... about a third of the
> > country's total. How long before there is another outbreak like the late
> > 80's and early 90's, where instead of 100 cases of measles there were over
> > 100 deaths from measles?
>
> Not likely, but you are free to speculate.

There's enough evidence from Europe that makes speculation
unnecessary. Pretty much happens when coverage rates go below 90, and
are almost a certainty when you go below 70. South London, last
year...remember?

> > 4) How do you keep those "foreign" birds and mosquitoes from spreading
> > viruses (West Nile, influenza, yellow fever, etc)? Erect a huge dome over
> > the country?
>
> West Nile is thought to have been brought in by a mideast immigrant
> with a bird. Maybe we shouldn't let any mideasterners bring birds in.

Maybe you shouldn't let anyone in...or out, since once you're out, no
going back in.

Thats the schlafly solution .... close all the borders!

Wyle E. Coyote, M.D.

unread,
Nov 16, 2002, 9:24:38 AM11/16/02
to

"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote in message
news:sZcB9.34052$NH2.2609@sccrnsc01...
Maybe Roger can move into the Biosphere?

All the best,

WYle

Roger Schlafly

unread,
Nov 16, 2002, 11:51:52 AM11/16/02
to
"amp_spamfree" <amp_sp...@yahoo.com> wrote

> Sounds pretty hypocritical, the part about making your own decisions
> but requiring vaccination of foreigners...or is it simply
> ethnocentric?

I live in the USA. Not everyone gets to live in the USA.
Criminals, terrorists, and carriers of infectious diseases are not
welcome (altho many of them come in anyway).


CBI

unread,
Nov 16, 2002, 12:48:34 PM11/16/02
to

"HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote in message
news:sZcB9.34052$NH2.2609@sccrnsc01...
>
> "Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ar2tev$es4j0$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "D. C. Sessions" <d...@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> > news:blv1ra...@news.lumbercartel.com...
> > > Mark Probert wrote:
> > >
> > > > Roger is already weaseling on this one.
> > >
> > > Hey, he's admitted that he doesn't really believe it.
> > > It's all just talk to him. It's not like other peoples'
> > > kids actually *matter* or anything.
> >
> > As far as he is concerned, they is just a bunch o' foreigners....
> >
>
> Which makes me wonder about a few things:
>
> 1) If his "FAQ's" persuades more people to NOT vaccinate their kids...
> doesn't that reduce the herd immunitiy and put his kids at greater risk?
>

Yep - that is the great joke about the whole thing. If he really believed
the pap that he spews forth then he would keep quiet about it. If he, or
those like him, ever realy manage to convince a significant number of people
then what they espouse will not longer be true.


> 2) Since the imported cases of measles recenlty have come from Korea and
> Japan... does he avoid all persons who look like they may have come from
> those places? And how can you do that in an academic field? I assume
that
> the California university system must have several students from those
> countries.
>

I'm sure he already has a legal brief on file to try to keep them a way.


> 3) I looked at:
> http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5145md.htm and noticed that
for
> the Pacific states had over half of the more than 100 cases of measles in
> the US in 2001, that California had 39 of them... about a third of the
> country's total. How long before there is another outbreak like the late
> 80's and early 90's, where instead of 100 cases of measles there were over
> 100 deaths from measles?
>

Haven't you heard? No one dies from measles - all that was just a myth.


> 4) How do you keep those "foreign" birds and mosquitoes from spreading
> viruses (West Nile, influenza, yellow fever, etc)? Erect a huge dome over
> the country?

Better yet - just around Schlafly.

--
CBI

D. C. Sessions

unread,
Nov 16, 2002, 2:59:38 PM11/16/02
to
amp_spamfree wrote:
> "Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<jSeB9.387$As7.47...@twister2.starband.net>...
>> "HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote

>> I had measles as a kid. It was no big deal. I am immune. Maybe we


>> should look into vaccinating the Korean and Japanese immigrants, if
>> they are bringing measles in.
>
> Sounds pretty hypocritical, the part about making your own decisions
> but requiring vaccination of foreigners...or is it simply
> ethnocentric?

The word you're looking for is "bigoted."

HCN

unread,
Nov 17, 2002, 8:58:00 PM11/17/02
to

"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jSeB9.387$As7.47...@twister2.starband.net...

> "HCN" <h...@deja-vu.com> wrote
> > 1) If his "FAQ's" persuades more people to NOT vaccinate their kids...
> > doesn't that reduce the herd immunitiy and put his kids at greater risk?
>
> It's a free country. People make their own decisions.
>
> > 2) Since the imported cases of measles recenlty have come from Korea
and
> > Japan... does he avoid all persons who look like they may have come from
> > those places? And how can you do that in an academic field? I assume
> that
> > the California university system must have several students from those
> > countries.
>
> I had measles as a kid. It was no big deal. I am immune. Maybe we
> should look into vaccinating the Korean and Japanese immigrants, if
> they are bringing measles in.
>

And this protects your unvaccinated kids how? Do you make them avoid folks
who may have come from those countries? Or how about if an American
exercising his/her freedom to not vaccinate (see above) goes to Japan or
Korea (perhaps for a conference, or business) comes back and then starts
spreading measles?

So when you kids leave the enclave to go to college are you going to then
tell them the odds of vaccination versus not being vaccinated on a college
campus.

amp_spamfree

unread,
Nov 18, 2002, 5:43:11 AM11/18/02
to
"Roger Schlafly" <rog...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<1JuB9.410$%j3.44...@twister1.starband.net>...

Would that be the tattoo on their forehead that gives it away?

D. C. Sessions

unread,
Nov 19, 2002, 8:14:59 PM11/19/02
to
amp_spamfree wrote:

Is the aleph removable?

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