More Weight Gain Woes :-(
Leslie
<<Lorelei weighed 11 lbs. at birth. At three weeks she was 11 lbs. 3
oz., up
from 10 lbs. 5 oz. in the hospital. Yesterday was her two month check,
and she
weighed 12 lbs. 6 oz. The nurse practitioner was a bit concerned--said
this
was a gain of only .5 oz. per day which is the bare minimum acceptable,
and to
be sure to bring her back in a month to be checked. >>
Today was the three month check. Lorelei has grown another inch
taller, but she gained no weight at all.
She is now in the 90% for height and the 50th for weight. The NP is
concerned. She also plotted her on the bf growth chart with no better
results. It seems L. has not been following a curve, but rather is
crossing percentiles and getting lower each visit.
The NP does think the gain in height is a good sign, and she can see
that L. is bright and strong, but she said she wasn't happy with her
"turgor." That was a new one to me--something about the feel of her
skin and muscle mass.
She recommends longer feedings at greater intervals to maximize the
hindmilk consumption. And she wants her weighed in ten days. If she
isn't gaining by then I know she will suggest supplementation.
So, any ideas? Is there cause for concern? What suggestions do you
have to help her gain? Help!
Leslie
Marie
"Leslie" <penn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1108583633.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
If you want to read, here is a link:
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain_increase.html. See
if you are already meeting all the criteria for successfully BF'ing your DD.
Is there an IBLCE-certified lactation consultant or a local LLL group near
you? I wouldn't go by the NP alone.
I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that large babies at birth tend to
gain slowly. Also, mentioned in the link above, a baby with a mild illness
may not gain weight or even lose weight. I think you recently posted that L.
has a cold? Perhaps she has lost weight that she had gained since the last
checkup? I would look into getting rid of the pacifier (for a while) if you
think it might interfere with BF'ing.
Good luck.
Marie
DD-1yo
Denise Anderson
>
> <<Lorelei weighed 11 lbs. at birth. At three weeks she was 11 lbs. 3
> oz., up
> from 10 lbs. 5 oz. in the hospital. Yesterday was her two month check,
> and she
> weighed 12 lbs. 6 oz. The nurse practitioner was a bit concerned--said
> this
> was a gain of only .5 oz. per day which is the bare minimum acceptable,
> and to
> be sure to bring her back in a month to be checked. >>
>
> Today was the three month check. Lorelei has grown another inch
> taller, but she gained no weight at all.
>
> She is now in the 90% for height and the 50th for weight. The NP is
> concerned. She also plotted her on the bf growth chart with no better
> results. It seems L. has not been following a curve, but rather is
> crossing percentiles and getting lower each visit.
Well does she have to be huge forever? I mean, can't she just find a point
and balance out? Heck, I'd be ecstatic if my 7 1/2 month old was 12 6 :(
Denise
Leslie
point
and balance out? Heck, I'd be ecstatic if my 7 1/2 month old was 12 6
:( >>
I asked that, actually. I said as I understood it that birthweight was
a function of maternal nutrition and that maybe she was going to be
petite and was going for a smaller curve. But she really has no curve
at all; she's gained nothing in five weeks and her gain before that
averaged .5 ounces per day which is supposedly the bare minimum.
I also mentioned that my 1st child grew very slowly, putting on less
than 5 lbs. in 6 months, but even she never went a month and gained
nothing.
I know you can appreciate the stress this makes me feel, anticipating a
weight check in ten days with no idea how to MAKE her gain weight.
Leslie
Denise Anderson
>
> I know you can appreciate the stress this makes me feel, anticipating a
> weight check in ten days with no idea how to MAKE her gain weight.
>
> Leslie
Oh how I can appreciate it :) Honestly, you know what you're doing. If she
seems ok to you, I wouldn't sweat it and I'd probably blow it off and they
bug you about supplementing.
Denise
>
Leslie
<<If you want to read, here is a link:
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain_increase.html.
See
if you are already meeting all the criteria for successfully BF'ing
your DD. >>
Awesome link, thanks! And by the charts there we are in trouble. :-(
<<Is there an IBLCE-certified lactation consultant or a local LLL group
near
you? I wouldn't go by the NP alone. >>
Yes to both. I wonder if I can get a referral for that. I think I
will ask.
<<I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that large babies at birth
tend to
gain slowly.>>
Hasn't been true of my other huge ones, but my daughter did gain
slowly.
<< Also, mentioned in the link above, a baby with a mild illness
may not gain weight or even lose weight. I think you recently posted
that L.
has a cold? Perhaps she has lost weight that she had gained since the
last
checkup?>>
Yes, and I said that as well. NP said that if that were the case she
should show regain by the recheck. It is definitely true that she has
nursed less due to the cold.
<<I would look into getting rid of the pacifier (for a while) if you
think it might interfere with BF'ing. >>
I absolutely intend to reserve its use for the car or when she is
inconsolable by nursing due to the stopped up nose.
Thanks, Marie.
Leslie
Leslie
seems ok to you, I wouldn't sweat it and I'd probably blow it off and
they
bug you about supplementing.>>
Thanks, Denise. The only thing that freaked me out was the comment
about "turgor."
Leslie
kat...@gmail.com
if you want to increase her hindmilk intake, nurse repeatedly on the
same side until she indicates that she is done with that one.
nurse early and often and all through the night.
Kate, mom to Ursula (10), Sage (7.5) and Benno (4!)
http://systems.cs.colorado.edu/~kolina/advantages-of-formula.html
Self-respect is the fruit of discipline; the sense of dignity grows
with the ability to say no to oneself. ~Rabbi Abraham Heschel
Looking for a thinking moms list? see
<http://listserv.uts.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/parent-l>
PCBH
Leslie wrote:
> Thanks, Denise. The only thing that freaked me out was the comment
> about "turgor."
Does the NP work thru a pediatrician's office or a general
practitioner's? If I felt a little uncomfortable (with either her
advice or with the "turgor" comment), I think I'd see a pediatrician.
Maybe someone in your area can recommend a ped who is very pro-BF? I
say this because I recently got a letter from my ped's office saying
that the local hospital had been mistreating pediatric patients (wrong
information, wrong dosages, etc) and that in any case that isn't
immediately life-threatening, the ped was recommending that p[arents
drive their kids the extra 20 minutes to the Children's Hospital. If
the NP isn't affiliated with a ped, maybe she isn't as knowledgable as
you'd want her to be about kids' issues.
I'm so sorry you are worried. I hope it gets better and your daughter
has gained well by the next visit.
PC
Leslie
<<I would personally like to see a slower gaining baby nurse more
often-
if you want to increase her hindmilk intake, nurse repeatedly on the
same side until she indicates that she is done with that one. >>
This is what I thought as well, and I actually had been doing some of
that because of green diapers earlier in her life. The nurse, though,
recommended that I spend 20 minutes per breast at least, trying to get
her filled up enough to go and hour and a half between feedings. She
seemed to think that repeated short feedings could lead to her only
drinking enough to satisfy thirst and never getting to the hindmilk.
The advice I read on kellymom said to offer both sides every feeding.
This is what I did yesterday: I offered the breast every time she
fussed. After she ate on one side, I offered the other, unless she
fell asleep. If she fell asleep, I offered the breast she was using
again the next time.
<<nurse early and often and all through the night. >>
That 's a problem because even though she sleeps with me, she sleeps
all night. She did nurse several times before she fell asleep for good
last night, though, and she woke up to nurse briefly at 4:30, something
she doesn't usually do, and I was actually glad about it.
Leslie
Leslie
<<Does the NP work thru a pediatrician's office or a general
practitioner's? >>
A pediatrician's office. It's a large office--maybe 9
practitioners--generally acknowledged as the best in town. It's where
I went myself as a child, and I have taken my kids there for 14 years.
I have always been pleased with the care I have received for illnesses,
not so much with the routine stuff, but then I don't feel the need to
get parenting/nutrition advice from doctors anyway, so I just let those
things slide off me--until now. :-(
<< If I felt a little uncomfortable (with either her
advice or with the "turgor" comment), I think I'd see a pediatrician.
>>
Honestly, one of the reasons I *chose* to see her instead of one of the
peds was that I knew she was very pro-bf, into natural medicines and
nutrition, and very much on the same page with me in a lot of ways,
moreso than any of the peds I've seen. I was squeezing that baby's
legs myself last night and I think I see what she means about
turgor--her skin wrinkles and stays that way for a bit instead of going
back to normal immediately.
<<Maybe someone in your area can recommend a ped who is very pro-BF?>>
I am unfortunately trapped where I am for insurance reasons. Not that
I think there are many truly pro-bf docs in this town--it is a very
formula-feeding area.
<< I
say this because I recently got a letter from my ped's office saying
that the local hospital had been mistreating pediatric patients (wrong
information, wrong dosages, etc) and that in any case that isn't
immediately life-threatening, the ped was recommending that p[arents
drive their kids the extra 20 minutes to the Children's Hospital. If
the NP isn't affiliated with a ped, maybe she isn't as knowledgable as
you'd want her to be about kids' issues. >>
She's my older son's ADHD caregiver, and I've been very pleased with
her in that area. If she recommends supplementation next visit,
though, I will ask for a second opinion.
<<I'm so sorry you are worried. I hope it gets better and your
daughter
has gained well by the next visit>>
Thanks. I hate having to worry instead of just nursing her and
enjoying it. :-(
Leslie
Carlye
I am so sorry for your worries. However, this might just be a bump in
the road, too. I was posting similar messages a couple months ago (you
may remember -- I commiserated with you) because Afton was also failing
to gain much, if at all. She didn't gain at all one month & gained
only 6 oz the next, but she went up almost 3 inches over those two
months. I was concerned about my supply even though she appeared to be
satisfied and had sufficient wet diapers; however, fenugreek, blessed
thistle, and oatmeal made no discernable difference to me or to her
weight. She dropped from 95th percentile at birth to only 45th
percentile at 3 months, and I was being urged to supplement, even
though she had substantial gains in height and head circumference.
Just when I was willing to try anything (i.e. formula, solids) to get
her to gain, she started on her own. She gained 1 pound in two weeks,
and then 2 1/2 pounds in the next month. Now, at 4 1/2 months, she's
back up around the 90th percentile.
I know my anecdote isn't particularly helpful from a practical
standpoint, but I hope it gives you a little optimism. If Lorelei is
bright-eyed, happy, and healthy, she might be like my Afton -- just
wanting to gain on her own terms.
-Carlye
DD 9-29-04
Leslie
<< know my anecdote isn't particularly helpful from a practical
standpoint, but I hope it gives you a little optimism. If Lorelei is
bright-eyed, happy, and healthy, she might be like my Afton -- just
wanting to gain on her own terms.>>
I so appreciate this! I've never dealt with anything like this before
and I can feel myself getting all freaked out.
Did you change anything at all that you think made a difference for
Afton?
Leslie
Sarah Vaughan
Leslie <penn...@aol.com> writes
>She recommends longer feedings at greater intervals to maximize the
>hindmilk consumption.
No, no, no, no, no! The best way to maximise the amount of fat the baby
gets (it's misleading to talk in terms of 'foremilk' and 'hindmilk' as
separate entities) is to feed as frequently as possible. See
<http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/foremilk-hindmilk.html>.
I totally sympathise with your worries and stress over this, having just
gone through the same sort of thing with Jamie. I don't know whether
you've seen any of my posts on the issue, but once I started pumping
milk several times a day to feed him in bottles he started gaining
weight properly. So the problem was clearly one of milk transfer - he
couldn't get the milk into himself. I'm convinced that this was because
his tongue tie prevented him from latching on properly, and now that
we've finally had it snipped I'm hoping he's now learning to b'feed more
effectively, though we're still supplementing him with pumped milk to be
on the safe side.
I'd recommend seeing a good LC to check whether there are any problems
with milk transfer, and trying to pump milk to feed her whenever you
have time (which is probably not much help - I found it was terribly
time-consuming and I wasn't trying to deal with four older kids as well,
but you could try pumping one side while feeding on the other and
recruiting your older kids to give the bottles).
All the best,
Sarah
Carlye
>Afton?
Not that I can think of. The only thing that really changed was my
stress level -- she started to gain shortly after the holidays (which
always stress me out), and she started to gain right at the point that
I'd accepted "defeat." I had finally bought a can of formula, given
into the fact that I would have to supplement, and began actually
believing that that did -not- make me a failure... suddenly, she
started gaining. We never ended up opening the can of formula.
Larry McMahan
Larry
Sarah Vaughan <nann...@samael.demon.co.uk> writes:
: In message <1108583633.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Jenrose
> Kate said:
>
> <<I would personally like to see a slower gaining baby nurse more
> often-
> if you want to increase her hindmilk intake, nurse repeatedly on the
> same side until she indicates that she is done with that one. >>
>
> This is what I thought as well, and I actually had been doing some of
> that because of green diapers earlier in her life.
Actually, I'd personally want to see a slow-gaining baby try more
switch-nursing if one-side-per-feeding wasn't "doing it". It was
switch-nursing (before I knew about hindmilk imbalance) that got dd to 20
pounds by 4 months... And if inadequate hydration is an issue, she NEEDS
more foremilk.
Jenrose
Carlye
After reading Sarah's and Larry's posts, Leslie, I realized I -did-
change something. Right around the time Afton started gaining, I
stopped bringing her to work with me and started leaving her at home
with DD. That meant I was probably pumping more (although I'd made a
habit of pumping often anyhow) and she was getting more EBM. I'm only
gone about 12-15 hours a week, so I wouldn't have thought it'd have a
significant effect on weight gain, but perhaps it did.
Leslie
habit of pumping often anyhow) and she was getting more EBM. I'm only
gone about 12-15 hours a week, so I wouldn't have thought it'd have a
significant effect on weight gain, but perhaps it did. >>
I think it could, considering that when I nurse L. she sometimes seems
to get only an ounce in 20 minutes, but she can suck down three oz.
pretty darn quickly via bottle.
I hate pumping. I
really admire anyone who can keep it up while working.
Leslie
Leslie
milk several times a day to feed him in bottles he started gaining
weight properly. So the problem was clearly one of milk transfer - he
couldn't get the milk into himself. I'm convinced that this was
because
his tongue tie prevented him from latching on properly, and now that
we've finally had it snipped I'm hoping he's now learning to b'feed
more
effectively, though we're still supplementing him with pumped milk to
be
on the safe side. >>
I sure hope you won't have to continue pumping much longer. It is such
a stress and takes all the fun and ease out of bf, imo. We seem to
have a milk transfer issue as well, although it seems not to be her
tongue but rather her latch.
<<I'd recommend seeing a good LC to check whether there are any
problems
with milk transfer, and trying to pump milk to feed her whenever you
have time (which is probably not much help - I found it was terribly
time-consuming and I wasn't trying to deal with four older kids as
well,
but you could try pumping one side while feeding on the other and
recruiting your older kids to give the bottles). >>
Except she won't take the bottle unless she is cuddled up against my
breast, darn it! The one and only one advantage to bottle feeding and
I don't even get that!
Leslie
Carlye
>really admire anyone who can keep it up while working.
You are singin' to the choir, here. I -hate- pumping. Not only is it
a hassle, but I have terrible luck with it, too. It's frustrating that
I can let down so easily when I don't want to (such as driving in my
car or in the grocery store) but come pumping time, my body more often
than not seems to prefer "sore and engorged" to letting down for the
pump. Argh! Fortunately, I can get enough for when she is with DH or
daycare since it is so few hours/week, but it is -not- an easy or
pleasant accomplishment!
-Carlye
DD 9-29-04
Leslie
I can let down so easily when I don't want to (such as driving in my
car or in the grocery store) but come pumping time, my body more often
than not seems to prefer "sore and engorged" to letting down for the
pump.>>
I'm right with you. I will almost certainly end up resorting to
formula if I have to bottle feed--I cannot get out more than 3 oz so
far.
Leslie
The Watsons
> I'm right with you. I will almost certainly end up resorting to
> formula if I have to bottle feed--I cannot get out more than 3 oz so
> far.
Which pump do you have right now? It takes a bit of time to get used to
pumping, and some women respond differently to different pumps. It took me
an hour plus at the end with the moo machine, and at most half an hour with
the Medela or my WW.
Jess
Leslie
I was talking about an isis when i wrote this--I now have an ameda
egnell electric and have done no better thus far.
Mary W.
Don't get discouraged! First, if you are pumping after
nursing, you can't expect to get too much. Pumping
in place of a feed will usually yield more. Try
pumping one side while she nurses the other. Also,
in terms of pumping, I find that it works best if
I use the lowest suction and highest speed until
I let down and then I slow the speed down and increase
the suction. I typically use a very low suction, but
this varies between people and between pumps. Lastly,
pumping can take practice and take your body time to
figure out how to respond to the pump, so give it time.
Good luck,
Mary W.
The Watsons
> I was talking about an isis when i wrote this--I now have an ameda
> egnell electric and have done no better thus far.
For me, the moo machine was always very rough compared to the Medela, so it
took me longer to respond to it and pump too; the place where I'm renting
the Medela from gave me something like a half off discount for WIC rates, so
renting the Medela is only about 30/month.
Jess
Leslie
I treid your advice re lower suction at the beginning. I just got four
and a half ounces (this was while she was napping so it was in place of
a feed)! I also got two and a half earlier today after a feeding.
Visualizing something nice and relaxing helped me with letting down,
not thinking about the baby for some reason!
Thanks for the tips.
Leslie
Leslie
I've had to fork out almost $150! I'll get back a $30 deposit though
if I don't spill milk on the thing.
I have state health care and I thought if I got a prescription for
using the thing I might get a break. But they don't cover it, although
I'm sure they'd cover and expensive formula if I were prescribed THAT.
:-p
Leslie
The Watsons
> I have state health care and I thought if I got a prescription for
> using the thing I might get a break. But they don't cover it, although
> I'm sure they'd cover and expensive formula if I were prescribed THAT.
> :-p
I have state insurance too, and Medicare (aid? I can't ever remember) is
required to cover up to a certain portion of the cost. Get a script.
Jess
Mary W.
Oh, I forgot this! Some women need to concentrate on thier
baby to let down. Me, I need to be totally distracted and
not thinking about pumping when pumping. A handsfree bra
helps with this! I use a bustier:
http://www.easyexpressionproducts.com/
Glad to hear its going a bit better.
Mary
Irene
Mary W. wrote:
> Leslie wrote:
> > Mary,
> >
> > I treid your advice re lower suction at the beginning. I just got
four
> > and a half ounces (this was while she was napping so it was in
place of
> > a feed)! I also got two and a half earlier today after a feeding.
> > Visualizing something nice and relaxing helped me with letting
down,
> > not thinking about the baby for some reason!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Oh, I forgot this! Some women need to concentrate on thier
> baby to let down. Me, I need to be totally distracted and
> not thinking about pumping when pumping.
Yeah, me too! If I can get into a book (or checking a set of drawings
at work) or planning my garden or something, I'm much more productive,
so to speak.
Irene
Leslie
will definitely have to do that.
Leslie