My first order for individual stocks. JNJ, NOK and VZ

[DanielleOM]

Today, I placed my first order for individual stocks. I thought I had
to start somewhere.

For my first order I placed orders for JNJ, NOK, and VZ. I ordered
quantities of 50, 500 and 100 respectively.

I placed these with the perspective they would be good for the long term
and still generate some interest.

I would love see some dialogue on this.


Thanks

Danielle

[Robert Cohen]

You have previously bought funds (mutuals, etfs, closed ends?)?

I also like the following sites for seemingly reasonable, honest information:

SEEKING ALPHA, plenty of information and opinions

Jim Cramer's site which may be called STREET AUTHORITY, but if it isn't it's
a seemingly pretty good site too besides Jim's, which has improved imo

Motley Fool

For most but inexperienced investors, I like ETFs, you can be long, and/or or buy some that are specializing in shorting, I'm not saying to buy 'em near their highs, because they can fluctuate like anything else

If you're wanting very high yields (say 14 percent and up) and who doesn't, NLY and several similar REIT mortgage fund others, though
anything can collapse at anytime of course,

even gold & silver and blue chips including your J & J, because for instance please see Boston Scientific last year if ya think I exaggerate, they had lost a patent infringement or something and the stock has apparently decreased by 50--25% ? percent

INTC, MSFT , CISCO are allegedly cash rich yet (seemingly) safer than
the usual besides being potentially grand-slammers again

[Robert Cohen]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:48:13 AM UTC-4, DanielleOM wrote:

[momarch]

> even gold & silver and blue chips including your J & J, because for instance please see Boston Scientific last year if ya think I exaggerate, they had lost a patent infringement or something and the stock has apparently decreased by 50--25% ? percent

JNJ has decreased 50-25%? Since when? Its $66 now....in 1993 (my chart only goes back 20 years) it was about $10.....last year high was $65 and low $57....what do your numbers mean?

[Robert Cohen]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:48:13 AM UTC-4, DanielleOM wrote:

I tried to use a confusing pronoun, because I meant the non Tylenolish vendor
Boston Scientific stock. Doesn't J & J stock withstand recent bad luck (and a foolish schnook who "knows" only what I see in media about a J&J plant here or there shutting down temporarily).

Boston was at 10 or 12, lost a legal dispute,
had to pay, and stock was at 6 the last time i looked. I think I once
owned 50 shares, and that's why I was watching it.

[momarch]

Ok...sorry...guess I read that wrong....

[Robert Cohen]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2012 8:48:13 AM UTC-4, DanielleOM wrote:

I hereby cite clown-lecturer JC's kinda touts, semi ambiguous convictions, and his STREET's conventional thinking, because nuthin is guaranteed
other than this seems (to me) to be a zero sum game, does anyone regard the phenomena as win-win, because win-lose seems to be prevalent ethic, APPARENTLY "double dealing" brokerage is normative, thus I am not raw capitalism's unfettered endorser, take China and almost everywhere else except mostly Cuba and seemingly all of North Korea and starve, so "capitalism" it'll be pragmatically but not ideally, ideal doesn't exist now or in history, only in
such ms ayn rand's warped mind and absurd GOP ideology

10 Longest-Held Stocks of Top-Rated Mutual Funds (Update1)

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4/2/2012 5:26 PM EDT

Apple Shares Still Riding a Wave

Apple's shares are climbing in pre-market trading on Tuesday, as the iPhone and iPad maker rides an ongoing wave of positive Wall Street sentiment.

4/3/2012 8:58 AM EDT

The Top 5 Dow Stocks So Far in 2012

These stocks are the best performers year to date.

4/3/2012 9:41 AM EDT

Cars Driving Recovery, Not Homes

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[momarch]

i like jnj...been around forever, probably not going anywhere...pays a nice divy..I believe I read somewhere that it has raised the dividend every year for the past 50 (?) years or so...something like that.

VZ is doing its best to take over cell phone wireless calling areas :) Their fios leaves a bit to be desired...but they probably are good to go for awhile too.

NOK dont follow...they just seem to me like an 80s brand that is being forgotten? Cant really comment on that one.

Best of luck to you :)

[-DirtBag]

Why did you select these three? whats your time frame, and risk tolerance?

[DanielleOM]

Frankly it's been quite a while since I have really read any investment
books and truly absorbed all of the detailed calculation methods.

However, I always felt more comfortable with the long term value
approach. I did reference the wikiwealth.com site before making these
selections.
They did rate the referenced stocks as a buy from a short and long term
approach. I also tried to look for stocks that would provide dividend
income, and also from different industries.

At this point, I believe I can hold of these long term with no sell date
on the horizon. I think I can say I have rarely had buyer's remorse but
have often had
seller's remorse. I can think of a few nice guitars that I sold in the
past that I wish I still had. :-)

I probably had a bias towards Verizon as they are my cell phone
carrier. Last fall in the Northeast during the long power outage
Verizon was working while many AT&T customers had no service.

I suppose Nokia is the most risky of the bunch. I am finding the whole
cell phone, cell phone software situation to be interesting. Although
consumers seem to be running to Apple and Android phones, I don't see
the corporate world going there. Nokia has made a real commitment to
the new Windows phone system and RIMM seems to be in real trouble. Long
term I still think corporations will be using a Windows phone or a RIMM
phone. It probably would be worthwhile to do more research to see if my
thoughts are really current with the corporate IT perspective.

Anyone following RIMM?


Danielle

[momarch]

Wow its nice to see someone contributing here that is actually talking about stocks and doing so very coherently :) I hope you continue to do so!

I personally think RIMM is toast. I've been playing the options on it on and off (just short term plays). A year ago this stock was in the $60 range....now its $12. Yikes. When the tablets started hitting the market to compete with the almighty ipad...the blackberry version couldnt even send email unless you already owned a blackberry...so it was really a specialized market....probably not such a great idea. I know of a few businesses (one I used to work for) that got the blackberries when they came out...but now they've all switched to iphone. Of course thats like 3 businesses out of millions :)

I like your sellers remorse remark....been there done that too many a time :)

Good luck with your picks :)
C

[Tony]

If you really want to make money buy the FAZ and the TVIX. The DOW is headed
back down to 2,300 or 1987 levels.

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
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Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got fired the first day
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Bur-ring, i'll get this one: WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JERK!!? We're here to help
you dickweed, ok, ok give the power cord the jiggily piggily wiggily all the
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There's the employer and the employee and the FROGGER and the FROGEE, which
one are you?

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El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar (I just got EL-FROG-OED!!)

I hate them both, With useless bogus bullshit you need at least *three*
fulltime jobs to afford either one of them

I'm a fulltime text *only* man on usenet now. The rest of the world
downloads the binary files not me i can't afford thousands of dollars a
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VBB = Volume based billing. How many bytes can we shove down your throat and
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Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
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Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

This sig file was compiled via my journeys through usenet

[-DirtBag]

On 4/4/12 9:07 AM, DanielleOM wrote:
> On 4/4/2012 10:11 AM, -DirtBag wrote:
>> On 4/3/12 5:48 AM, DanielleOM wrote:
>>>
>>> Today, I placed my first order for individual stocks. I thought I had to
>>> start somewhere.
>>>
>>> For my first order I placed orders for JNJ, NOK, and VZ. I ordered
>>> quantities of 50, 500 and 100 respectively.

I hold none of them. VZ,JNJ seem safe enough. NOK seems to be dying
from my perspective. I cant recall anyone I know who uses Nokia.

>>>
>>> I placed these with the perspective they would be good for the long term
>>> and still generate some interest.
>>>
>>> I would love see some dialogue on this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Danielle
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Why did you select these three? whats your time frame, and risk
>> tolerance?
>
>
> Frankly it's been quite a while since I have really read any investment
> books and truly absorbed all of the detailed calculation methods.
>
> However, I always felt more comfortable with the long term value
> approach. I did reference the wikiwealth.com site before making these
> selections.
> They did rate the referenced stocks as a buy from a short and long term
> approach. I also tried to look for stocks that would provide dividend
> income, and also from different industries.
>
> At this point, I believe I can hold of these long term with no sell date
> on the horizon. I think I can say I have rarely had buyer's remorse but
> have often had
> seller's remorse. I can think of a few nice guitars that I sold in the
> past that I wish I still had. :-)

As a life long picker I know that feeling....But we muddle on and it
gives us huge appreciation for those who still have playable pre-war
guitars and covet them. Been several for me...

>
> I probably had a bias towards Verizon as they are my cell phone carrier.
> Last fall in the Northeast during the long power outage Verizon was
> working while many AT&T customers had no service.

I like ATT. But I am a West Coast user. I carry two phones in my car.
ATT for most my calls but I carry a VZ phone for the remote N-Calif
areas not covered by ATT.

>
> I suppose Nokia is the most risky of the bunch. I am finding the whole
> cell phone, cell phone software situation to be interesting. Although
> consumers seem to be running to Apple and Android phones, I don't see
> the corporate world going there. Nokia has made a real commitment to the
> new Windows phone system and RIMM seems to be in real trouble. Long term
> I still think corporations will be using a Windows phone or a RIMM
> phone. It probably would be worthwhile to do more research to see if my
> thoughts are really current with the corporate IT perspective.
>

Seems IT is migrating to AAPL (apple). Least from my West Coast
perspective.


> Anyone following RIMM?

I think its funeral is next week.

Good luck with your picks. What about some nice DIV payers if this is
going to to be long term holds. NLY at todays price is interesting..
Pays nice and is well managed. Long term div reinvestment pays off in it.




>
> Danielle
>
>
>
>

[-DirtBag]

On 4/4/12 6:33 PM, Tony wrote:
> If you really want to make money buy the FAZ and the TVIX. The DOW is headed
> back down to 2,300 or 1987 levels.
>

Gamblers view above... Not saying he is wrong, as who knows? But I
think Danielle is seeking investment stocks for the long haul.

[Michael America]

i don't know if any of them pay dividends, but if you are on ameritrade
or sharebuilder, you should sign up for drip=diviend re-invetment since
you are holding them long term..

[Blash]

Michael America wrote on 4/11/12 8:51 PM:

> i don't know if any of them pay dividends, but if you are on ameritrade
> or sharebuilder, you should sign up for drip=diviend re-invetment since
> you are holding them long term..
>

ANY retail broker will re-invest dividends........

[DanielleOM]

Is there any advantage to the re--invest for a taxable account. I
thought re-investing them would make things more complex, from a
tracking point of view for a taxable account. To a degree I liked the
idea of me getting the opportunity to decide what to with the dividends.


Danielle

[Blash]

DanielleOM wrote on 4/11/12 10:15 PM:

> To a degree I liked the
> idea of me getting the opportunity to decide what to with the dividends.

OK.....then take the dividends.........

[Frank Kafka]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 07:39:22 -0700, -DirtBag <Di...@sonic.net> wrote:

>> If you really want to make money buy the FAZ and the TVIX. The DOW is headed
>> back down to 2,300 or 1987 levels.
>>

I made a little money on tvix.

I'm looking to re-enter. It's too expensive now.

[shortT]

In Canada, capital gains are taxed at 50% while dividends (except from Canadian
corporations) are taxed at 100%. It would be to someones tax advantage to receive shares in lieu of dividends in order to realize capital gains
as opposed to getting the dividends, paying taxes on them, and reinvesting
them in more stock.

[Lubow]

"shortT" <dev....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4908588.919.1334281279715.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbai14...

>
> In Canada, capital gains are taxed at 50% while dividends (except from
> Canadian
> corporations) are taxed at 100%. It would be to someones tax advantage to
> receive shares in lieu of dividends in order to realize capital gains
> as opposed to getting the dividends, paying taxes on them, and reinvesting
> them in more stock.
>

Shorty, are you saying that all foreign dividends paid to Canadians are
confiscated?

[Michael America]

danielle, a few things. first , it kind of depends how old you are. if
you are under 50 , i would re-invest them...
but you don't have to go "100%"...you can do any amount,so if you need
the money, maybe you should just re-invest 10 to 20%?..
but, with computers, it is no longer complicated since you get a print
out of every transaction and dividend paid..
the initial investment really takes off after a few years with a
"drip"..because those early dividends buy new shares which also pay
dividends..it starts to snowball after awhile...
for instance, i know you don't get a 10% retrun, but if you did, and you
keep putting in about 100 dollars a month,after 17 years the total
begans to double every year..........

[Michael America]

to understand dividend reinvesting you have to understand the
"exponential curve"...
my business teacher at indiana university explained it this way....a man
got a lucrative contract offer. he was offered $500,000 dollars for a
job.. instead, he just asked for a penny and for that amount to be
doubled every day.
so , on the first day he got 1 cent, the second day two cents, the third
day four cents and so on for 30 days...if you calculate the final 30 day
total you will be shocked to find out you get over a million dollars !
even as you get near the end it still seems like it will never get that
high,but then it does....that basically is the explanation of the
exponential curve and how drip investing works.

[shortT]

No, not confiscated but taxed at 100% of face value.
So if you made $1,000 in dividends you would pay
$1,000 x 100% x your_marginal_tax_rate.
For capital gains you will have
$1,000 x 50% x your_marginal_tax_rate

[Lubow]

"shortT" <dev....@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:22792639.245.1334352070461.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbug19...

So that's almost like in the US where after an exemption dividends are taxed
as ordinary income and long term cap gains are taxed at a lower rate than
ordinary income.

I don't remember the specific numbers... TurboTax remembers them for me.
And the cost of TurboTax IS deductable.

[shortT]

That is the way it should be but not here, we can not deduct the cost of the tax
program.
Furthermore, if the dividends come from Canadian corporations first they are grossed up by 1/4 (times 1.25) then a dividend tax credit is applied equal to 2 thirds of the grossed up amount. This makes them more attractive from a taxable point of view. But nowhere near as attractive as capital gains.

[DanielleOM]

Since you reference age, I thought it may be helpful for people to know
a little bit about me.

I will turn 60 this summer. I am a Canadian citizen with USA permanent
resident status living in the USA. After being affected by a
restructuring last year, I am finding myself thinking about retirement
income streams to a greater level of detail than I had done in the
past. Luckily I do have an FAE type pension that I can start collecting
this year if I choose to do so. Long term, I am not sure if I will
remain in the USA or return to Canada. I recently purchased the book
"The Border Guide" by Robert Keats. I am hoping it will me to
understand some of the USA - Canada concerns related to retirement
income sources, investments and country of residence. Most of my career
was spent in the USA.

After searching for dividend reinvestment plans, it would appear that
they look complex for USA taxable stock investments. I did see one
article that questions that very subject. The article is at
http://www.dividendgrowthinvestor.com/2008/10/are-drips-worth-it.html.

I have not determined how much of my cash I want to put in taxable
stocks. I am thinking that taking the dividends for income, might allow
me to take a slightly more aggressive position.


Danielle

[Michael America]

if obama gets kicked out you should stay here because things will get
good again, but if he wins, a lot of us might be joining you in canada
...

[shortT]

In Canada the cops need a warrant
before they can enter your premises... not like Indiana where the can waltz
right in.

[Alan Bowler]

On 4/12/2012 9:41 PM, shortT wrote:
> In Canada, capital gains are taxed at 50% while dividends (except from
> Canadian corporations) are taxed at 100%.

Note a very accurate portrayal of the situation.

Dividends from a Canadian corporation are taxed using a gross-up/tax-credit
mechanism that effectively eliminates double-taxation of profits
paid to share-holders with dividends. The dividend value is grossed-up
to account for the taxes paid to Canadian government on profits
by the company and then the larger number is taxed at your personal rate.
You then get a credit for the taxes paid by the company.
The effect is that if an owner takes a share of profits from
the company as salary, interest (on a shareholder loan/bond),
or as a dividend the net tax collected by the goverment is about
the same.

The effect to the taxpayer is in the highest bracket in
Ontario a large company dividend is taxed at a rate of about 29%
of the dividend, versus 46% for interest/salary (i.e. only 63% of
the cash dividend incurs taxes). Capital gains gets a little nicer
treatment at 23% (50% of the full rate). For a median income person
($60K income) the effective rate on dividends is about 13%

Foreign corporations have not paid taxes to Canadian goverments
so their dividends don't get this treatment, and are taxed at the
full rate.

> It would be to someones tax advantage to receive shares in lieu of dividends
> in order to realize capital gains as opposed to getting the dividends,
> paying taxes on them, and reinvesting them in more stock.

Not true. If you use a dividend reinvestment plan to take
new shares in lieu of a cash dividend, it is taxed the same
as a cash dividend. I.e. It is treated as if you had taken the
cash and used it to buy shares.

A dividend reinvestment plan does save you commision costs,
and in some cases gets a small discount on the purchase so
it may well be worthwhile. However in a regular taxable
account, it is something of an accounting pain.

At one time, taking a share dividend instead of a cash
one was a method of getting capital gains treatment, but
that loophole was closed many many years ago.

[Lubow]

"Alan Bowler" <atbo...@thinkage.ca> wrote in message
news:jn9fac$jfa$1...@dont-email.me...

> A dividend reinvestment plan does save you commision costs,
> and in some cases gets a small discount on the purchase so
> it may well be worthwhile. However in a regular taxable
> account, it is something of an accounting pain.
>
> At one time, taking a share dividend instead of a cash
> one was a method of getting capital gains treatment, but
> that loophole was closed many many years ago.
>

Not sure if this is related to anything but my Rio-Can DRIP does not charge
me the 33% excise tax on dividends paid to foreign residents. However, my
broker charges me the 33% tax on cash dividends I receive on my Canadian
stocks.

[Alan Bowler]

On 4/25/2012 4:03 PM, Lubow wrote:
>
> Not sure if this is related to anything but my Rio-Can DRIP does not
> charge me the 33% excise tax on dividends paid to foreign residents.
> However, my broker charges me the 33% tax on cash dividends I
> receive on my Canadian stocks.

For a Canadian who doesn't file US income tax form(s) (1040 etc)
dividends from a US company are subject to a 15% withholding tax.
The tax is withheld by the company and remitted to CRA.
The broker reports this on the account reports and in the tax slip(s)
he sends.
You report this as a tax credit (like the taxes withheld by an employer).
Since an average gross (not marginal) tax rate in Canada is around 30%
this works out to roughly a 50/50 split of the taxes between the
two goverments.

I would have guessed that the tax treaty would have made the
treatment symetric, and you would only have 15% withheld
on Canadian dividends. With further taxes then owing to the US.

Note that the default withholding rate for dividends paid
to foreign investors by US companies (and many/most other
countries) is 30%. Canadians only see the 15% because Canadian
brokers file the appropriate paperwork with the US companies
to invoke the tax treaty number of 15%. For most other countries
Canadian brokers don't usually make such filings even when
there is a similar tax treaty, and it is left to the investor
to file for a rebate of the difference with the foreign country.

If you are getting 30% (or 33%) withheld it sounds like your broker
is being lazy and not doing filings. You may need to have a
discussion with the brokerage and/or file some paperwork with CRA
to reclaim the difference.

RioCan is a REIT, a trust that pays "distributions" not a
corportation that pays dividends. As such its payouts
don't get the gross-up/tax-credit treatment I described before.
I.e. they are taxed the same as employment income or interest.
I'm not sure what the tax treatment of REITs is under the treaty.
Are you sure that a withholding tax is not being applied?
(Note that trust treatment changed at the start of 2011 so that
for non-REIT trusts some withholding does apply to distributions)

[Lubow]

"Alan Bowler" <atbo...@thinkage.ca> wrote in message

news:jna0qr$e8$1...@dont-email.me...

>
> RioCan is a REIT, a trust that pays "distributions" not a
> corportation that pays dividends. As such its payouts
> don't get the gross-up/tax-credit treatment I described before.
> I.e. they are taxed the same as employment income or interest.
> I'm not sure what the tax treatment of REITs is under the treaty.
> Are you sure that a withholding tax is not being applied?
> (Note that trust treatment changed at the start of 2011 so that
> for non-REIT trusts some withholding does apply to distributions)
>

The DRIP administrator for Rio-Can (Mellon/BMO) never deducted a cent (US or
Canadian) from my reinvested distributions but my broker (Interactive
Brokers) charges a withholding tax against distributions I get from Dundee
REIT and BTB REIT. It is just an annoyance because all taxes paid to a
foreign government are credited against US taxes.

Maybe it's a reward of some kind because we Americans have to jump through
hoops to qualify for a Canadian DRIP. In order to qualify, a prospective
DRIP participant must have an account at a Canadian Bank branch physically
located in Canada. Wife and I took the trouble of opening a checking
account at BMO in Niagara Falls, ON.

[shortT]

This is what I said without the detail. Read my previous post.
I agree about dividend reinvestment and taxes however if someone is counting
on an income this is not going to help. As far as taxable income is concerned
you are better of with capital gains.