CHTL Science: an open letter to Henry N
qua...@uclink3.berkeley.edu
GT
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>
> Do you guys really believe that Henry Niman is concerned with the
> science of ethocyn? Oh, don't speak so high of his science integrity.
> Do you have any clue whatthe gentleman is doing for a living? He said a
> few days ago that he did his postdoct in The Scripps Research
> Institutein the 80s. I think he also did his post-degree research in
> somewhere New York in the early 90s, now he ended up in U of Pitt. in
> the Department of Epidemiology. A few days ago, he wrote a damned long
> story on how the faculty in U of Pitt. finance their budget in a tone
> as if he is a faculty! No way. If anyone is interested in what this man
> is doing in Pitt., give Lewis Kuller, the chairman of the Department of
> Epidemiology a email and ask, he probably can tell you.
>
> In my opinion, a good scientist does not have that much time on
> promoting stocks in the internet and other on-line services. I am sure
> everyone on this board reading his posts on biotechs understands what
> this man is up to. Don't mistake that this man is so kind to provide so
> much free information on stocks! He has his goals!
>
> As far as his interests in CHTL is concerned, don't be fooled by his
> so-called "science concern". Looking back what his said from the
> beginning, you will have a clue. First, he expressed his "concern" on
> CHTL because Chantal Burnison retains all of the important titles
> (chairman, president, CEO and CFO). Then came the competition from
> Retin-A! I stated here that Retin-A will not compete with ethocyn but
> rather probably complement ethocyn because they work differently. He did
> not refute my words as far as I remember but he replied to Juan's post
> and said: even though Retin-A and ethocyn works differently, how about
> ~~~~~~~~~
> the patient population!! Well, a scientist will not say any nonsense
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> like this, I guess! I emailed him and told him that he can eat apples
> and nobody will stop him eating oranges! But he did not respond; Lately
> he was bogged down with the lack of placebo study in ethocyn, seemed
> very concerned about science indeed! Now that question was addressed in
> the conference call; Finally, he seemed to run out of ammunition. You
> guess what he said: FDA scientist privately told me of their concerns of
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ethocyn's science! Bullshits!!
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Just wait what henry is going to say next. It must be very interesting!
Your misinformation above is bordering on or has already crossed into libel.
Henry N Fox Chapel
S. Huang
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> Henry:
>
> I think it's time for all of us to start toning down the rhetoric (myself
> included) and start discussing what is likely to happen vs. what we would
> like to happen. Those of us that are CHTL supporters and have listened to
> the three conference calls, have confidence since the experts (Pinco,
> Leyden, and indirectly Bailey) have assured us that FDA action is
> unlikely. I suggest that you take the time to pose the same questions
> directly to these individuals that you do to this board. Until then I will
> have to rely on what I have heard. If you have direct knowledge (as
> opposed to opinion) that an FDA action is pending, please let us know.
> As far as "science" is concerned, the six eminent dermatologists that
> participated in Friday's conference call praised the quality and amount of
> research saying that it goes far beyond what they have seen for a cosmetic
> product. Leyden said he was "very impressed by the amount of
> research....biopsies are rarely done in cosmetic work." Shalita said he
> was "highly impressed with the quality of research.... the biopsies seem
> to confirm what we have been seeing clinically." All praised Strick's work
> that indicated "less than 1 in 1000 chance that the changes in elastin
> levels were due to chance." These are leaders in their field. Leyden did
> the major Phase III study on Renova. I think their opinions of the science
> is very significant.
> I think I now understand where you are coming from. As a biotech purist,
> it must gall you to see the Ethocyn research be called "scientific,"
> because it is far less rigorous than what you have come to expect in the
> biotech world. This is probably true. But you are holding Ethocyn up to
> very high "drug" standards, rather than "cosmetic " standards. We are not
> dealing with issues of life and death such as septic shock, thrombolysis,
> cancer, etc., where you may only have one therapeutic opportunity and
> where side-effects can be lethal. We are talking about wrinkles! You may
> not like what you have seen of the research, but the results are extremely
> convincing for a cosmetic.
> I realize that what you have heard of Ethocyn might sound like hype, but
> I can assure you that my experience is otherwise. Strick and Chantal are
> very careful to point out that skin wrinkling is multifactoral, and that
> elastin content is just one of them. Ethocyn has a very specific effect on
> the structure of skin. Chantal has pointed out that if elastin levels are
> normal (as they are in 20% or less of the population over 35, but
> decreasing with age) Ethocyn will have no effect. That is why they have
> such a generous return policy (75 days) and despite this have had a very
> low return rate.
> I am a physician (not a dermatologist). I have used the product along
> with my wife for several years. Many of our friends use it. Results have
> been excellent; side effects- nil. Dermatologists I have talked to are
> recommending Ethocyn either as stand-alone treatment or in conjunction
> with laser or other medical treatment. I know of a plastic surgeon who
> uses it on his patients for 2 months prior to facelifts, because it
> increases skin tone and improves post operative recovery. More anecdotal
> evidence like this will be piling up as the customers grow into the
> hundreds of thousands. Additional scientific studies are being planned to
> address dosage, possible enhancing agents, etc.
> In the real world, as opposed to ivory tower academic circles, the public
> could care less that a cosmetic product has not undergone Phase III
> testing or had a less than perfect research protocol. What they want is
> something that really works-- as opposed to empty promises. The
> "scientific basis" claims are real and several elite academic
> Dermatologists, who have put their reputations on the line, clearly
> concur. As additional studies are done (such as the double-blind placebo
> study from U of Texas), I am confident that even skeptics such as you will
> be satisfied.
> So Henry, in the interest of scientific impartiality, rather than
> dashing off some clever one-liner based on something I've written, spend a
> few minutes and call Chantal directly (1-310-207-1950) and ask for some of
> the scientific data, or call Leyden, Shalita, Strick, Snyder, or some of
> the other Dermatologists that have extensive experience with the product--
> I suspect some of them might even have heard of you by now. Then let us
> know what you think after you have a examined all the facts, not just what
> you have read in the financial press.
>
> Best regards, Bob
>
> PS. Unless there is some new information, as opposed to a rehash of the
> same old arguments, this will be my final response (maybe...).
Bob, I'll take you up on your suggestion. My sources have been posts on this
board and the Money Talk BB as well as the Barron's article (and basic
knowledge about hormones and receptors). I really did get E-Mail from the
FDA suggesting concern, but it was more in terms of science than FDA approval
and certainly did not indicate that an investigation was imminent or
likely. (The concern was not official or even from someone who would
be involved or recommending such an investigation. It was strictly scientist
to scientist).
My prediction of an investigation stems from knowledge about
how powerful hormones are (or drugs that interact with their recptors)
and the parallels between Ethocyn Essence and Renova (and it was the Renova
approval that attracted my attention to CHTL). The personal attacks by
CHTL supporters (including threat of legal action for calling ethocyn a hormone,
computer checks of bank accounts, notification of the University of Pittsburgh
about abuse of computer account, inside information, membership in a large
group of short sellers, being a large group, and on and on) that has kept
my attention. I originally said that Ethocyn Essence would do well if it
really worked because there were definite disadvantages associated with
tretinoin (the active ingredient in Renova). I'll call to get info about
data that shows that Ethocyn Essence is better than Essence and see how
strong the "scientically proven" data is. From what I've seen thus far,
there's plenty of room for improvement, but I certainly have not done an
in depth analysis of the underlying data and I have no information indicating
that an FDA investigation is imminent or even being considered (although I
do think that JNJ could make a good argument after they were fined for
making off label claims and conducted an approved FDA trial).
Henry N Fox Chapel
R BINDER
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> What....are you are lawyer now too?
>
> GT
Henry N Fox Chapel
Vanbao Truong
is merely expressing his opinions on the net. Is it wrong to
do this? Hey, I bought CHTL stock so I do want the stock to
rise as much as you.
Every one who posted threads on this newsgroup did it for a
reason. So before you start bashing other people, take a good
look at yourself.
If you don't like this posts, then don't read it. It is just
that easy. Don't you have better things to do, get a life?
Lance K. Chun
-->Bob, I'll take you up on your suggestion. My sources have been posts on this
-->board and the Money Talk BB as well as the Barron's article (and basic
-->knowledge about hormones and receptors). I really did get E-Mail from the
-->FDA suggesting concern, but it was more in terms of science than FDA approval
-->and certainly did not indicate that an investigation was imminent or
-->likely. (The concern was not official or even from someone who would
-->be involved or recommending such an investigation. It was strictly scientist
-->to scientist).
-->My prediction of an investigation stems from knowledge about
-->how powerful hormones are (or drugs that interact with their recptors)
-->and the parallels between Ethocyn Essence and Renova (and it was the Renova
-->approval that attracted my attention to CHTL). The personal attacks by
-->CHTL supporters (including threat of legal action for calling ethocyn a
hormone,
-->computer checks of bank accounts, notification of the University of
Pittsburgh
-->about abuse of computer account, inside information, membership in a large
-->group of short sellers, being a large group, and on and on) that has kept
-->my attention. I originally said that Ethocyn Essence would do well if it
-->really worked because there were definite disadvantages associated with
-->tretinoin (the active ingredient in Renova). I'll call to get info about
-->data that shows that Ethocyn Essence is better than Essence and see how
-->strong the "scientically proven" data is. From what I've seen thus far,
-->there's plenty of room for improvement, but I certainly have not done an
-->in depth analysis of the underlying data and I have no information indicating
-->that an FDA investigation is imminent or even being considered (although I
-->do think that JNJ could make a good argument after they were fined for
-->making off label claims and conducted an approved FDA trial).
-->
-->Henry N Fox Chapel
Is it just me, or has the tone of Mr. Niman dramatically changed in this
latest post? Now it seems he has _almost_ outrightly admitted that the FDA
will most likely _not_intervene. Interesting turnabout.
Yet, the price of CHTL's stock dipped again to around 8.5 on Wednesday.
Not stablizing _even_ after the conference call of last Friday _and_ the
earnings projection released Tuesday. This does not bode will for CHTL's
credibility.
What more can Chantel do to buttress its stock price?
Lance
Economics & Philosophy Major
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> In article <4e56j4$k...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
>
> -->board and the Money Talk BB as well as the Barron's article (and basic
> -->knowledge about hormones and receptors). I really did get E-Mail from the
> -->FDA suggesting concern, but it was more in terms of science than FDA approval
> -->and certainly did not indicate that an investigation was imminent or
> -->likely. (The concern was not official or even from someone who would
> -->be involved or recommending such an investigation. It was strictly scientist
> -->to scientist).
> -->My prediction of an investigation stems from knowledge about
> -->how powerful hormones are (or drugs that interact with their recptors)
> -->and the parallels between Ethocyn Essence and Renova (and it was the Renova
> -->approval that attracted my attention to CHTL). The personal attacks by
> -->CHTL supporters (including threat of legal action for calling ethocyn a
> hormone,
> -->computer checks of bank accounts, notification of the University of
> Pittsburgh
> -->about abuse of computer account, inside information, membership in a large
> -->group of short sellers, being a large group, and on and on) that has kept
> -->my attention. I originally said that Ethocyn Essence would do well if it
> -->really worked because there were definite disadvantages associated with
> -->tretinoin (the active ingredient in Renova). I'll call to get info about
> -->data that shows that Ethocyn Essence is better than Essence and see how
> -->strong the "scientically proven" data is. From what I've seen thus far,
> -->there's plenty of room for improvement, but I certainly have not done an
> -->in depth analysis of the underlying data and I have no information indicating
> -->that an FDA investigation is imminent or even being considered (although I
> -->do think that JNJ could make a good argument after they were fined for
> -->making off label claims and conducted an approved FDA trial).
> -->
> -->Henry N Fox Chapel
>
> Is it just me, or has the tone of Mr. Niman dramatically changed in this
> latest post? Now it seems he has _almost_ outrightly admitted that the FDA
> will most likely _not_intervene. Interesting turnabout.
>
> Yet, the price of CHTL's stock dipped again to around 8.5 on Wednesday.
> Not stablizing _even_ after the conference call of last Friday _and_ the
> earnings projection released Tuesday. This does not bode will for CHTL's
> credibility.
>
> What more can Chantel do to buttress its stock price?
>
> Lance
> Economics & Philosophy Major
from the FDA. In the interest of disclosure, I mentioned the E-Mail
but did not want to give the impression that my prediction of FDA intervention
was based on private E-Mail. I think JNJ will pressure the FDA. Today's
WSJ article on a Nature article makes me think that the likelihood has
just increased because JNJ can now not only say that Renova works, but
the can add that they have preliminary evidence on why it works. The will
focus on their science and ask about CHTL's.
Here's the latest:
1/25/96 Is There A Wrinkle In Retin-A Research?
By Michael Waldholz Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
New research out today is certain to reignite a long-simmering
controversy over Johnson & Johnson's claim that its drug Retin-A
can reduce facial wrinkles. The research, by two University of
Michigan scientists and published today in the respected British
science journal Nature, is provocative because it shows for the
first time how even a momentary exposure to sunlight can damage
human skin, and the mechanism by which J&J's Retin-A can prevent
that. But not disclosed in the report, which is certain to draw
much attention, is that the new research was funded by J&J's
Ortho division, which sells Retin-A. The scientists, Gary J.
Fisher and John J. Voorhees, helped spur a rush of publicity and
a surge in Retin-A use in 1988 when they first reported that the
drug, approved then only as acne treatment, reduced fine
wrinkles and other skin problems associated with aging.
Subsequently, the Food and Drug Administration upbraided J&J for
failing to note that it funded the Michigan research and that it
supported a public-relations campaign to promote the drug for an
unapproved indication. Phillip Campbell, editor of Nature, said
he is unaware that the giant New Brunswick, N.J.,
health-products company backed the scientists' newest findings.
He noted, however, that his journal doesn't require scientists
to disclose funding sources. "The report was rigorously
reviewed, and its findings should stand on their own," Dr.
Campbell said. Neither Dr. Fisher nor Dr. Voorhees responded to
numerous requests for an interview. Officials at J&J and at the
university acknowledged that five years ago the company provided
the dermatology research program with a 10-year grant, although
they wouldn't specify the exact amount. In a statement, the
Michigan scientists said they can't publicly discuss the
research, because it suggests that Retin-A may prevent sun
damage, a claim that is not yet approved by the FDA. The timing
of the new research's publication is especially fortuitous for
J&J and may help boost sales of the drug. Late last month, the
FDA gave the company the go-ahead to market the drug, under the
brand name Renova, as the first prescription medicine "proven to
reduce fine facial wrinkles, brown spots and surface roughness
associated with chronic skin exposure," Ortho said in a news
release dated Jan. 2. Renova is a reformulated version of the
principal ingredient in Retin-A. The Retin-A version often
caused severe skin drying, but the Renova version is in a
lubricated cream that avoids such problems. In the new study,
the Michigan scientists briefly exposed human subjects to light
that emits the same ultraviolet radiation as emitted by
sunlight. The scientists then analyzed tiny bits of skin removed
from the subjects. The analysis found the brief exposure
increased the activity of enzymes that break down collagen and
elastin, two substances that keep skin cells attached to one
another. The scientists found that in skin protected by creams
containing Retin-A or steroids such as hydrocortisone the
activity of these skin-degrading enzymes was not increased.
Thus, they report, the creams might prevent sunlight damage. In
a separate commentary accompanying the study's publication,
Barbara Gilchrist, a Harvard University researcher, and Douglas
Brash of Yale University write that the Michigan researchers may
have uncovered a "molecular mechanism for some degenerative
changes of photo-aged skin." The commentary also notes that the
Michigan team's report "also present[s] possible treatments."
Dr. Gilchrist has previously been a consultant to J&J. Dr.
Brash, in a telephone interview yesterday, said he believed the
Michigan researchers were merely providing evidence for a theory
of how very low doses of sunlight might damage skin. "It's not
clear whether the enhanced action of the enzymes brought on by
UV exposure does cause wrinkles," Dr. Brash said. "The research
only shows that UV radiation [increases] the enzyme action.
Anything beyond that is suggestive." Dr. Gilchrist couldn't be
reached to comment yesterday. David J. Leffell, chief of
dermatologic surgery at Yale School of Medicine, said the new
findings, if reproduced, may alert people to the potential
damage of even limited sun exposure and might also support
claims that Retin-A can mitigate the damage. "But making new
claims about skin damage and Retin-A [based on the report] is
premature," he said. Dr. Leffell said he has prescribed
Retin-A, and will prescribe Renova, for use against fine
wrinkling. "But I'm certainly not going to use the drug more
because of this research, although more people may ask for it."
(END) DOW JONES NEWS 01-25-96 6 17 AM
Henry N Fox Chapel
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> I reprint here some related posts showing Henry's antagonism to Chantal is
> linked, at least in part, to his support for Ligand and its competing new
> retinoid perscription skin treatments. The ideas are Herb Landon's - and,
> of course, Henry Niman's. Jack the
> SundialMan
>
Jack, The personal attacks by you and associated "CHTL bulls" have kept my
attention focused on CHTL. It is no secret that I like LGND and ALRIZ. I
have posted on this board (as well as Prodigy and AOL) that I started LGND's
parent company, Progenx. I have been interested in retinoids because the
compounds in LGND's or ALRIZ's advanced clinical trials are retinoids. I consider
JNJ (and Roche) to be LGND's chief competitors in this area. However, LGND
has many areas and as noted in one of the Prodigy posts you uploaded, virtually
every major phamaceutical could be considered a competitor of LGND's. However,
many of the biggest pharms are also Strategic Alliance partners of LGND. PFE,
GLX, AGN, ABT, AHP, SBE, and Sankyo have equity positions in LGND. I have
posted under other threads (you uploaded on from a Johnson & Johnson thread).
I did not consider CHTL a competitor. Their product is not FDA approved
the chief competitor for LGND in the area of wrinkles is JNJ. LGND has never
indicated they were targeting wrinkles. The recent Nature article indicated
that retinoid, steroids, and MMPIs could be potential candidates for preventing
photo-aging. Maybe these results will induce LGND to persue a wrinkle
application since they have advanced programs in all three areas.
My interest in CHTL posts however stems from the actions of the "CHTL bulls"
on this board as well as Prodigy. I was threatened with legal action for
calling ethocyn a hormone. I was accused of being involved in a Bear Raid of
CHTL. I was supposed to be many people. I was the bear raiders mouth-piece
on the internet. I was threstened with publication of bank records. I was told
that all of my posts would be forwarded to the University of Pittsburgh. My
former department was contacted. My scientific judgement has been questioned.
Negative posts on LGND and ALRIZ were initiated at 3:00 AM by posters who had
never made a Biotech or LGND or ALRIZ post previously. Numerous threads were
started with my name in them. Libelous and false statements were posted on
this board and Prodigy. Here are some of the Prodigy posts by you (Jack Kemp
on Prodigy) as well as some of your fellow "CHTL bulls":
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:40 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL UPDATE
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/25/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 2:01PM ET
Henry, I don't know whether to take your comment about my
needing Herb's help as a compliment or something else. I'll
take it as a compliment until it's proven otherwise.
The fact is I spend far too much time on this situation
already and I am no biochemist/physician, so I skipped over
the Ligand posts. We Chantal bulls have to divide the
assignments of monitoring you, Henry, because some of us
have outside work and family obligations. I like what you
did with the Prodigy e-mail. Were you one of the "Prodigy
Seven?" I saw in the NY Times article of Nov 27, 1990 that
they chose to quote you & say you were a cancer researcher.
Today I would think you are a cancer stock researcher.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:43 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL - THANKS!
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/14/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 3:22PM ET
You problably did well in freshman chemistry, but did you
ever take freshman logic in college, Henry? You are only
proving my case against you with that inept last post.
By saying you have posted at these levels (71/per day) on
many more locations and for a much longer protracted time,
you making us all here more suspucious of professional bear
raid involvement and more suspicious of your claim of your
being one person who has the endurance and ability to be
free of other obligations (eat, sleep, hold another job).
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:47 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL NEWS
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/14/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 3:22PM ET
If I were the SEC, I would be asking why Henry's posts
predicting that Chantal was overvalued were accurate.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:48 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL NEWS
To: XFXV43B Jeff Sweat Date: 1/14/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 6:03PM ET
Jeff, by no means do I believe Henry to be the chief mover
in this bear raid. He is most likely their mouthpiece on the
'net.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:49 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL NEWS
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/15/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 12:37AM ET
Henry: As your posts are timed dated. How is it that you
knew what BARRONS & IBD had to say, long before they hit the
stands?
RLM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:50 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL NEWS
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/15/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 12:40AM ET
Henry: You have been very accurate! As an imartial Phd.
(Piled High & Deep). Not only do you not sleep, but seem to
have all the news before it it published. How impartial are
you? Did you know that some people are even able to trace
your bank records as well ? Of course I do not condone such
things.
RLM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:58 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/16/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 10:31PM ET
Henry: The time has come for me to stop with the bashings
and insinuations. I have made statements of comming
investigations and articles, which have, and are now fact.
But, one last correction on your last post! You did not post
after BARRONS article; infact you gave the whole aricle
verbatum, severaltimes before it hit the stands.
I know rest my case!
RLM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:59 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/17/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 11:53PM ET
Henry: you posted almost twenty four hours before BARRONS
hitting the stands on Saturday. Please dont try and pass
that crap off. You also posted just after Friday market
closing. Little too late for average investor to put to use.
I have all you logs, Prodigy, Internet, etc. logged by date
and time. All anyone has to do is back date their BB, to see
what a hypocrite you realy are!
RLM.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 10:59 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/18/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 8:47AM ET
Henry, as I said to you in the newsgroup, taking YOUR WORD
for it, that you got a Barrron's on 7 AM on that Saturday,
why did you rush home, read the article immediately, rush to
type it into Prodigy all within 40 minutes? After all, the
market didn't open 'til Monday. It was as if you were
excited about your Master Plan being completed. Most regular
people would sleep in on Saturday morning, enjoy breakfast.
You can't blame most people for finding your actions
unusual. Add to that the taunting, bearish cheerleading on
Monday, i.e. posts by you, I believe, predicting CHTL going
to 2 a share and hourly gleefull reports of the price drop
as many here lost a lot of money, and you wind up with a
resevior of bad will directed against you. Oh, yes and 84
messages in 24 hours. Jack
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:00 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/18/96
From: RKME51A Brad Frank Time: 1:38PM ET
Henry,
Let me help you get you facts straight here. When you
stated Ethocyn was a hormone I sent your note to Chantal
for review by their legal dept. That is not a "threat of
legal action". What Chantal does with your post is up to
them.
You did repeat misinformation (as fact) from the
Barron's article about Chantal doing infomercials and I
corrected this erronious information you posted. Barron's
was writing absolutely dated and incorrect information and
you passed it on here. The fact Barron's was printing
incorrect information was pointed out to you. How much>>>
other misinformation in their article I suppose will come
to light later.
Just wanted to help you from putting your "slant" on
what you preceive here on the BB back into proper
prospective. Brad
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:01 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/18/96
From: JZKY70A Jack Kemp Time: 3:15PM ET
OK, Henry, I reviewed the posts here on Prodigy and it was
someone else who said that Chantal was going to 2. I
withdraw that statement - but none of the others.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:03 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/20/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 1:25AM ET
Henry: Skip IBD for the moment (as I know your style of
swaying subject). Your posts on the BARRONS article are on
record as being posted prior to Strategic Investor! The news
you say you got via strategic investor ( Additional Prodigy
charge ) is available for "free" at same time to any Prodigy
subscriber by "jumping" to "Company News"; then type symbol
"BRRNS" to see latest release of BARRONS stories. True: I,
or anyone aware of this feature could view article just
prior to publicion ( hitting the stands), but your posts are
still recorded prior to the S.I., or Company News
avaialability on prodigy! think I am sounding more & more
like a fool:Then I still have to catch up to YOU! RLM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:03 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/20/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 1:33AM ET
Henry: Again! You now admitt you read article befor Saturday
morning on Strategic Investor! Still your posts are earlier
than the SI, or Company news postings. Furthermore, They do
not show or featur what the "Cover Articles are". You just
keep digging a deeper hole for yourself! But, I do find you
intersesting; as a lot of others are, who have your logged
statements.
RLM:
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:04 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/23/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 2:44AM ET
Henry: The only money you will ever see from CHTL, would be
from investing in it! I have a log of every post you have
made, and the times, hours, and source. Why don't you try
and sue me? I don't need the cash, but would be glad to see
you spend a little. Free time from university internet
account, for non educational purposes is in direct breach of
your wrights. Forget CHTL for the moment. I am forwarding
all your posts to the University. Unless they have some
grant from JNJ, or such, you can tell your story there.
Imagine if you had to pay for your on-line time? Or worse!
RLM
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/26 11:05 PM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL..MY HERO...
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/23/96
From: CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 2:52AM ET
Henry: Anyone who backdates to your BARRONS posts will see
who is silly! You posted the entire article before it was
published "Fact". You also mentioned it as cover Story!
"Fact" (new wires do not release the cover). But, in you
later posts you say you got BARRONS on Saturday. In other
Posts you admit to getting early release from "Strategic
Investor" You did a good job of pre-releasing the "Cover"
BARRONS aricle. Why can't you get your own stories
straight? You are an obviouse hypocryte! You keep changing
your stories to suit the posts you are replying too! You are
not silly Henry! You are a calculating source of what
emantates from the south end of a Bulls tail! And it smells
Henry N Fox Chapel
SundialMan
linked, at least in part, to his support for Ligand and its competing new
retinoid perscription skin treatments. The ideas are Herb Landon's - and,
of course, Henry Niman's. Jack the
SundialMan
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25 9:33 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL UPDATE
To: ALL Date: 01/25
From: WPSW77A HERBERT LANDON Time: 4:50 AM
I hate to add more personal insults to a topic that has already
deterioated, but since Henry has so prolifically defiled Chantal, I
think everyone should have an understanding of Henry's motives. Henry
obviously has a very significant financial interest in Ligand. He has
posted excessively about Ligand on AOL, Prodigy and the Internet.
LIGAND IS HIS TRUE INTEREST.
Henry's motivation in Chantal has been very confusing to me
so I read most of his notes on prodigy. The following
notes from Prodigy show his main interest:
Subject: JOHNSON & JOHNSON To: ALL
Date: 01/03
From: JJFT14A HENRY NIMAN
Time: 8:37 AM
Yesterday, after the close, JNJ announced the approval of
its wrinkle cream, Renova. This is another Vitamin-A
derivative (retinoid) and just adds to the approved uses of
such compounds. The active ingredient, tretinoid, is an
all trans-retinoid and it is the same active ingredient
found in Retin-A (made by JNJ) and Vesanoid (made by Roche
for treating acute promyelocytic leukemia). A related
compound made by Roche, (iso-tretinoid, Accutane), like
Retin-A is also used for treating psoriasis and acne. AGN
also has a related retinoid, tazarotene approved for
treating psoriasis and acne. LGND and AGN's new company,
Allergan Ligand Retinoid Therapeutics (ALRIZ) are working
on 2nd and 3rd generation retinoids. These compounds have
more selective binding and many also bind to RXRs. These
compounds should be more active for chronic conditions
since they do not induce their own inactivating metabolism
and have fewer adverse reations and side effects. ALRT1057
and LGD1069 are already in advanced clinical trials for a
wide range of conditions. ALRT550 is related to enter the
clinic this year. Over 1400 retinoids have been screened
and many others are in pre-clinical testing phases.
Selective receptor retinoids already identified in
ALRT's prospectus include ALRT521, ALRT792, ALRT379,
ALRT121, and ALRT620. Of course there are many more
anatagonists and agonist not yet publically named.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service - Date: 01/25 Time:
2:00 AMBoard: MONEY TALKTopic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: LIGAND NEWS
To: URTD64A JUDY MULDAWER Date: 01/03
From: JJFT14A HENRY NIMAN Time: 9:44 AM
Judy, It will be interesting to see what the JNJ
announcement does to CHTL. The move was quite impressive,
but long term effects will probably determine which product
is best (and LGND should look good long term). The H&Q
conference is just around the corner, so I think LGND will
make a run at 12.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/3/96 9:41AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service -
Date: 01/25
From: JJFT14A HENRY NIMAN
Time: 2:03 AM
Chris, I have just been watching CHTL from the sidelines
because I don't put them in the Biotech category (which
is all I know anything about). FDA approvals are getting
easier, but they still take time and require hard
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25 9:34 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL UPDATE
To: WPSW77A HERBERT LANDON Date: 01/25
From: JJFT14A HENRY NIMAN Time: 6:22 AM
Herb, I have posted on LGND long before CHTL (I think
there are few who read the Biotech posts who do not know
about my interest in LGND - if you set your clock back a
couple of months, you can see the LGND topics which I
started). I have also posted under CHTL the fact that I
considered JNJ and other big pharms LGND's competition
(not CHTL although the RetinA post attracted my attention
to the CHTL threads). I also noted that although they
competed with LGND, they also had alliances with them.
PFE, GLX, AGN, ABT, AHP, SBE, and Sankyo in Japan all have
equity positions in LGND and Strategic Alliance programs.
Any wrinkle applications are in the distant future. LGND
and ALRIZ retinoids are in advanced clinical trials for
cancer. ALRIZ just started a psoriasis trial. However,
ALL of LGND or ALRIZ drugs go through the FDA as drugs.
They are hormones or analogs and act through hormone
receptors (as does ethocyn and tretinoin). I am very
familiar with hormone, analog, and receptor interactions.
I started LGND's parent company, Progenx, which was
involved in cancer diagnostics using monoclonal antibodies.
However, I currently am just an interested stockholder
(although LGND holds the rights to my patents).
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/25/96 6:00AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/25 9:32 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
Subject: CHANTAL UPDATE
To: WPSW77A HERBERT LANDON Date: 01/25
From: WPSW77A HERBERT LANDON Time: 4:50 AM
(continued)
scientific data. I suspect that CHTL doesn't have the
expertise or clinical connections, but I really don't
follow them other than notice how far the price has come so
I can't say for sure. As far as LGND and ALRIZ
are concerned, I am fairly confident that their retinoids
will have wrinkle applications and they will be safer and
more effective then Retin-A (or other trans-retinoids).
JNJ and Roche have taken awhile to get these products
approved (for cancer and wrinkles) and I suspect that they
work, but there is room for improvement. LGND (with ALRIZ
and AGN) have the corner on the 2nd and 3rd generation
retinoid market. There are three known receptors for
retinoic acid (RARs) and three for related receptors
(RXRs). LGND uses all six receptors to screen compounds.
RAR binding induces cell differentiation and RXR binding
induces programed cell death. The ones that bind to RXRs
are cis-retinoic acids and they do not induce their own
inactivating metabolism (as the trans compounds do) nor do
they have severe side effects (they may even help
cholesterol levels when taken orally). LGND's partner for
the retinoids is AGN and they specialize in skin and eye
disease. Their retinoid (identified before the LGND
alliance) has been approved for eczyma and acne and I would
think that they would tackle the wrinkle market, especially
after the Retin-A approval. ALRT1057 has already entered
the clinic in a psoriasis or eczyma trial and it's strong
suit is limited side effects for chronic conditions. I
don't have a good feel about what CHTL's price should be.
If their compound works and doesn't have long term
complications, I think it can do well against
Retin-A. However, JNJ has lots of money and a good
reputation so it should be quite a battle. However, I
think the 2nd and 3rd generation reinoids will blow away
Retin-A. I have a dematologist friend who perscribes
Retin-A, but he's longon LGND and ALRIZ.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/4/96 3:47PM ET
I believe these notes show Henry's allegiance to
Ligand. He is hoping that Ligand will provide an effective
wrinkle cream in the future. Chantal is a threat to
Ligand's ability in this market.
I hope this helps.
Herb
SHAHRAM MORI
: Do you guys really believe that Henry Niman is concerned with the
: science of ethocyn? Oh, don't speak so high of his science integrity.
: Do you have any clue whatthe gentleman is doing for a living? He said a
: few days ago that he did his postdoct in The Scripps Research
: Institutein the 80s. I think he also did his post-degree research in
: somewhere New York in the early 90s, now he ended up in U of Pitt. in
: the Department of Epidemiology. A few days ago, he wrote a damned long
: story on how the faculty in U of Pitt. finance their budget in a tone
: as if he is a faculty! No way. If anyone is interested in what this man
* The rest of the above meaningless stuff deleted*
Dude; You act like you started CHTL yourself. Be logical in your
responses not emotional. Reading the above makes you and CHTL look worse.
Talk stocks or science (in this case) or don't talk at all.
I am not picking Henry's side; I don't give two shits about CHTL after
reading what their business is but please don't bring anger into a
logical discussion.
Cheers
--
_/\_
_\ /_
\_ _/
||
C A N A D A
DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA$DNA
Shahram Mori
Program in Molecular Biology
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Box 3C
New Mexico State University
Las Cruces NM
88003
RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA$RNA
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> linked, at least in part, to his support for Ligand and its competing new
> retinoid perscription skin treatments. The ideas are Herb Landon's - and,
> of course, Henry Niman's. Jack the
> SundialMan
>
However, I forgot about some of the posts in the subject created by one of
your fellow "CHTL bulls":
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:00 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: All Date: 1/11/96
From: BVUR26A John Mc Mahon Time: 11:51AM ET
I thought you might like your own board since you have
become so prolific on the other boards.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:00 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: JJFT14A Henry Niman Date: 1/13/96
From: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Time: 2:15PM ET
Henry, You stated that I made a "raid on LGND, ALRIZ and
Biotech threads." It's ridiculous to even consider that
the notes or opinions from one common man (or woman) on the
Money Talk BB can affect a stock's price.
Based on your panic notes and the excessive posting you do,
you are apparently very deluded indeed.
Herb
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:01 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: All Date: 1/13/96
From: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Time: 5:41AM ET
Henry, Since you don't understand why people on Chantal
topic are angry with you, I will try to explain.
First for a little background: Last week you first appeared
on the Chantal topic predicting the demise of the company.
Although you said you were unfamiliar with the company and
only became interested after reading some JNJ news, you
began a campaign deluging Prodigy and the Internet with
negative repetitive notes about Chantal. All the while you
claimed you did not have a short position.
Up until last week you concentrated all your energies
posting on biotech companies. (I may also note that
you stated that you "never considered Chantal a biotech.")
Your last note last Friday was posted at 11:00 PM. Then,
at 7:54 AM ET on Saturday, you were the first on Prodigy
with a complete synopsis of the negative Chantal Barron's
article.
Now, I would not accuse you of having prior knowledge of
the Barron's article. Instead, I will just say "Wow, what
a coincidence."
I would not question the integrity of Barron's. But we all
know that an investagative article like that was not
written in a vacuum. I would expect that phone calls were
made while the author was investigating the story and word
got out within some circles about the Barron investigation
prior to its Saturday release.
Henry, then on Monday morning you cut and pasted the
Barrons article and posted it on the board. Then you began
posting down tick quotes on a regular claiming to be
helpful. This in your face, "ha ha you lose" attitude was
repulsive.
Henry, flooding the board with repetitive posts is
annoying, but intentionally posting half truths under the
pretense of being helpful is despicable.
Henry, I hope this helpful.
Herb
(Another, 3:00 AM note)
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:02 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WUCY72A John Fitisoff Date: 1/13/96
From: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Time: 4:23PM ET
John, "CHTL isn't a biotech". That was precisely my point.
Henry only posts on biotechs with the exception of having
great timing on Chantal.
I agree it is helpful to provide the negative side. I don't
criticize Henry for doing this.
On two separate days last week he selectively posted down
ticks only. It should be obvious to the casual observer
that he is behaving maliciously.
Herb
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:03 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/13/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 8:04PM ET
Herb, My posts before CHTL opened on Monday were all down
ticks because that's all the stock was doing. I posted
prices from 12 to 10. It opened at 9. (Others had
indicated opens of 18 and 14 which way out of date when I
posted). My interest in CHTL came via a RetinA subject
which came out when JNJ received its Renova approval. I
have always been interested in retinoids (including Retin
A, Accutane, and Roche's APL treatment (which is another
name for Tretinoin). My questions regarding placebo
controls have yet to answered. Now that I've noticed that
CHTL claims that their product is "scientically proven" I
an axious to read the paper(s). Thus far my posts on theis
board, misc.invset.stock NG and a Medline search have not
come up with anything. The CHTL gets more "interesting"
with each passing day. How long have they been putting out
this "scientically proven" line. This first time I saw it
was in the January 11 "beauty contest" press release,
another slap in the face to any serious scientist (and I
would think FDA).
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/13/96 8:04PM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:04 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/13/96
From: VGKS17C Alex Gelinas Time: 10:56PM ET
Hey guys! Here is the way I see it. In New York City,
where I live, Barron's is available on the newsstands
early Saturday morning. When I am out of town, I have
noticed that it is usually unavailable until Sunday,
some places only Monday. You can bet that professional
short sellers have all seen the articles (such as the
Chantal article) well before the market opens on Monday.
By posting the text of the article on Prodigy immediately,
Henry is just leveling the playing field, so that you folks
out in the hinterland won't be blind-sided. As for
Chantal,I noticed that the local drugstore chain (Duane
Reade) today had Chantal's products prominently displayed//
at the pharmacy counter and the clerk said there was a lot
of interest in the product. I don't own any shares at
present, but was a shareholder back in the days it was
recommended by the Medical Technology Stock Letter. Widows
and orphans and their investment advisors take note-\
This stock is a risky speculation, and should not be
confused with high quality, well financed biotech companies
like Chiron.
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:05 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: VGKS17C Alex Gelinas Date: 1/14/96
From: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Time: 2:20AM ET
Alex, The way I see it is that Henry got up at 5:00 AM ET
last Saturday; raced out to the Pittsburgh airport to greet
the delivery plane; raced back to his computer in Fox
Chapel; read the article; and posted a summary of the
Barron's article at 7:54 AM ET.
This was all in the line of duty of helping Money Talk BB
readers.
Herb
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:06 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/14/96
From: WUCY72A John Fitisoff Time: 2:25AM ET
Herb,
actually, you are pretty much right. Henry usually does
stick only to the biotechs. And of those, his preference is
Ligand. However, he does generally post on anything else
that has a direct effect on Ligand (or other biotech
stocks), and it would not seem unreasonable for him to
comment on CHTL's products in that regard. I haven't been
following this too closely, so I think I'll just bow out of
this discussion. <g> Regards,
JF
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:06 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: FQPQ82A Keith Cooper Date: 1/14/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 7:05AM ET
Keith, In Pittsburgh it comes at 7:00 AM to a small grocery
store that just gets a couple of copies. The big super
markets don't get it unitil Sunday. "Inside connections"
at Barron's are not required for purchase. $3.00 works
well.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/14/96 7:05AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:07 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/14/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 7:11AM ET
Herb, I almost always get Barron's at 7:00 AM on Saturday
at the local grocery store. They only get a couple of
copies so it's early Saturday or wait until Sunday when
the big supermarkets get their copies. I must admit
however, that when I saw CHTL on the cover after reading
the amazing "stories" on the CHANTAL board, I didn't waste
any time putting up a summary here or on the
misc.invest.stock board which also contains some rather
unique posts.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/14/96 7:11AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:09 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WUCY72A John Fitisoff Date: 1/14/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 7:45AM ET
JF, MTSL stopped coverage because they didn't consider
CHTL a Biotech. I didn't either but thought they were more
like a phamaceutical. Now I put them in a class by
themselves based upon what I've bumped into in the past
week. Here's a brief chronology. I had heard about big
move in the news a few times and one poster had complained
about MTSL not sticking with them (at the time they had
moved from $2 to $5 or $6). I put their symbol on one of
my Biotech lists and did note the rather dramatic rise in
price (to almost $30). When JNJ had Renova approved I was
wondering if the approval would hurt CHTL since I had
gathered that they were sidestepping the FDA and calling
their wrinkle cream a cosmetic. I read some of the CHTL
posts and gathered that the active ingredient was ethocyn
and it was an anti-androgen. I then became more interested
in the issue because LGND and ALRIZ are heavily involved
with retinoids (and one of the CHTL subjects included
RetinA because of the Renova approval), and LGND is THE
hormone company that screens drugs with a huge battery of
receptors (ethocyn is an anti-androgen because it binds to
the androgen receptor and LGND has already identified an
anti-androgen, LG2293, which will target prostate cancer,
internal program, as well as benign prospate hyperplasia
and male pattern baldness, indications for more Strategic
Alliances). CHTL also has a pattern baldness program and
ALRIZ could certainly develop a wrinkle application - they
already have started trials on psoriasis with ALRT1057. I
made a few retinoid posts and commented on the FDA issue (I
found it hard to believe that the FDA would not look at an
anti-androgen, especially for long term effects). When I
mentioned that Ethocyn was a hormone, I received a note
indicating that my post was being forwarded to CHTL's legal
department. As you know, I do a lot of posting and never
had received such a post. I then became more interested in
CHTL so I looked them up with SI. I was struck by the
market cap (at that time it was almost $500 million), the
employee number (42), and the fact that the company, Chair,
President, CEO, CFO, and media contact all had the same
first name. That weekend Barron's came out with their
article which I summarized. Of course my comments on FDA
scrutiny, the unusual balance sheet, and the Barron's
summary didn't win many friends on the CHANTAL boards. In
fact many assumed I had a huge short position (I had no
position), knew about the Barron's article prior to
publication, and was part of a massive group bent on
destroying CHTL's price chart (other conspiracies involving
JNJ, other short sellers, and just about anyone else who
didn't see the dip to 18 as a once in a lifetime buying
opportunity, were freely posted). I had predicted a rather
sharp drop because of the Barron's article. It had some
rather negative things to say about the recent SEC filing
to sell privately placed shares, the CHTL distributor's
past and put option, the history of the drug and CHTL's
attempts with other anti-androgens, and the effectiveness
and cost of Ethocyn Essence (including a UCLA study that
lacked placebo controls). On Monday stale quotes (opens at
18 and 14) began to appear so I put up real time quotes
which showed a steady price decline prior to the open (it
opened at 9 - I began posting when it was at 12, when below
the Friday close near 20). Now posters think that not only
am I part of this huge anti-CHTL group, but I (and
Barron's) am now going to be investigated by the SEC
because CHTL has asked for an investigation of the dramatic
price drop. The latest issue I have is a press release
stating that Ethocyn has been "scientifically proven".
Such a claim should get the attention of the FDA. Ethocyn
Essence's label just says the cream makes wrinkles "look"
better. I think the scientifically proven claim crosses
the line because the only study I have heard about (and I
did a Medline search without success) is the UCLA study
that was unpublishable because it lacked placebo controls.
(more) Henry N Fox Chapel 1/14/96 7:45AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:10 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WUCY72A John Fitisoff Date: 1/14/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 7:53AM ET
Since JNJ's Renova study produce improvement in 33-48% of
the placebo controls (depending on end point), I thought
that the lack of controls was very significant and
suggested that Ethocyn Essence without ethocyn may be as
effective as Ethocyn Essence with ethocyn (a point made in
the Barron's article also). The "beauty contest" is
another press release that catches my attention. CHTL is
looking for 250 participants to use Ethocyn Essence on half
of their face. The top 10 will receive prizes and be
photographed for an ad campaign. This Tabloid Science
is a real wakeup call. From what I can tell, the other
side of the face receives nothing. Thus, another "study"
without placebo controls. CHTL needs only a 4% response
rate to come up with their 10 finalists. Since JNJ had a
33-48% response rate to Renova without tretinoin, I suspect
that Ethocyn Essence without ethocyn could also generated
some positive results (in 10 out of 250). That's the
latest. It's been quite a week.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/14/96 7:53AM ET
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:11 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/15/96
From: DHNK83A David Mckay Time: 12:51AM ET
Herb, I think that you have a point here, but you are
wasting your time berating Henry when you could better
utilize your time researching stocks for that next big
winner. You and I go way back, and I always respect your
opinion, but Henry does put up good posts (even if they are
redundant) which is a lot better than a lot of posts on this
board which just consist of idle banter. Speaking of idle,
Henry probably has a lot of time on his hands, because Fox
Chapel is an exclusive suburb of Pittsburgh, making Henry a
candidate for the "idle rich" category. <bg>
Best Wishes
Dave McKay
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:12 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: All Date: 1/13/96
From: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Time: 5:31PM ET
For those who don't have the time to wade through all the
nonsense on Chantal, I would like to give you a taste of
Henry's good intentions and "helpful" notes.
CHTL slide acceleration. PCFN shows 11 X 11 seven minutes
before open.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 10:53AM ET
PCFN now shows 10 1/8 X 10 1/8.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 10:57AM ET
At the bell CHTL is 9 5/8 X 9 5/8.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 11:01AM ET
Still sliding. 9 3/8 X 9 3/8.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 11:02AM ET
1st real quote on PCFN is 9 3/8 X 9 1/2.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 11:08AM ET
Looks like down 7 was the first wave. CHTL on the move
again. Bid down to 6 15/16.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 12:23PM ET
ben, CHTL traded over 7.5 million shares. It was by far
the most active on any U.S. exchange, and as Joe Kernan on
CNBC said, by far the biggest percentage loser.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/8/96 3:08PM ET
B. CHTL had a nice move up yesterday, but it's heading
south again today.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/11/96 10:17AM ET
Brad, I just noticed that the low was 7 7/8, so a trade
(bid or ask) at 8 wouldn't be too surprising. If you want
to buy more CHTL at 8 put in your order. Latest bid is 7
7/8, ask is 8 1/8. The entertaining posts on this board
keep me watching this one.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/11/96 3:03PM ET
Brad, Just so you don't miss it, CHTL is offering another
BUY opportunity. Bid's down to 7 1/2.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/11/96 3:40PM ET
Brad, Oops, you missed it. Bid's 6 3/4.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/11/96 3:41PM ET
Brad, How about 6 5/8?
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/11/96 3:42PM ET
So much for Helpful Henry.
Herb
PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 01/27 12:13 AM
Board: MONEY TALK
Topic: STOCKS A-M
To: WPSW77A Herbert Landon Date: 1/13/96
From: JJFT14A Henry Niman Time: 8:15PM ET
Herb, Thanks for the summary. I thought I stopped at 10.
I guess it was 9 3/8. What your post doesn't mention is
the fact that two other posaters had already put up quotes
of 18 and 14. My posts were before the delayed open on
Monday. The stock actually opened at 9.
The second series of quotes were in response to Brad's
comment that he had missed the bid price of 7 7/8, which
was early that day. When the quote check showed a last
price of 8, I got a real time quote so I could tell Brad so
he wouldn't miss it again. The real time quote actually
showed a bid of 7 1/2 which I posted (Brad had been
thrilled that he was able to buy at 8 early in the day). I
told him to hurry so he didn't miss another buying
opportunity. I thought 7 1/2 was low (CHTL had been up
from its low open for most of the day), so I did another
check after I wrote the 7 1/2 post. In the minute it had
taken to write the post, the price had dropped 3/4 point.
Therefore, I did a followup. In the time it took to write
that post, the price fell another 1/8, so I gave a third
quote. Actually the times on my signature give a very good
feel as when the bottom fell out of the price and I believe
it was when Chantal cancelled her meetings with analysts.
Many times investors look at the point change at the end of
the day and wonder what happened. My posts give very good
info of what happens when. Investors can do what they want
with the info.
Henry N Fox Chapel 1/13/96 8:15PM ET
Henry N Fox Chapel
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
I saw this post from Robert Martin to you this morning on Prodigy:
Board: MONEY TALK Topic: STOCKS A-M Subject:
CHANTAL UPDATE
CCHJ35A Robert Martin Time: 2:38AM ET
Jack:
Don't know if you follow CNBC (must be published elswere).
BUSINESS WEEK is now under SEC investigtion for stock
manipulations. (THIS IS PUBLIC KNOWLEGDE as of 1/26/96). It is
too bad as they were the ones who were going to ( still may)
publish article on BARRONS smashing of CHTL and
others.BARRONS should make a follow up on their specious
article, as they are next in line for exposure OF INSIDE
MANIPULATION. I personaly will only pick up barrons after
someone else has discarsed it! Also, Henry Niman( more than one
person) has been traced with using AOLHELL, an illegal hackers
program to alter posts on AOL. He is going to get it
Obviously Jack Martin has stepped over the line. However you uploaded
the post onto AOL with some additional comments. You seem to have
either also stepped over the line or are very close. I'll let you
know what I find out about cyberstalking. There could be some very interesting
investigations.
Henry N Fox Chapel
SundialMan
the internet newsgroup without comment.
In the AOL version, I preceded the post by saying: "Also Henry Niman gets
mentioned" without further comment.
I will state here that I have no knowledge of the 1/28/96 Robert Martin
Prodigy post's accuracy, but it is an event (unfortunately) and definitely
(also unfortunately) news. That should end my comments on the Business
Week article prior to its release.
P. Howard
>Henry, I have no intention to stalk you. The post from Prodigy I placed on
>the internet newsgroup without comment.
>In the AOL version, I preceded the post by saying: "Also Henry Niman gets
>mentioned" without further comment.
Stalk Henry-?! No. Stalk me.
Henry is much too busy, and I'd really hate to see him distracted from his
biotech Posts, LGND, etc. updates over this nonsense. Enough.
I'm serious--don't bother him; I've got enough free disks from America
Online to send you guys to AOL Hell while looking forward to the trip.
Be advised.
P. Howard
S. Huang
>>Henry, I have no intention to stalk you. The post from Prodigy I placed on
>>the internet newsgroup without comment.
>>In the AOL version, I preceded the post by saying: "Also Henry Niman gets
>>mentioned" without further comment.
>Stalk Henry-?! No. Stalk me.
>Henry is much too busy, and I'd really hate to see him distracted from >his
>biotech Posts, LGND, etc. updates over this nonsense. Enough.
>I'm serious--don't bother him; I've got enough free disks from America
>Online to send you guys to AOL Hell while looking forward to the trip.
>Be advised.
>P. Howard
You should talk to Henry and tell him not to be distracted from Biotechs updates, particularly on LGND (BTW, I have no negative feel=
ings on LGND), ask him to make more fantasy projections on what LGND can do in, say, 5 or 10 years!
I can promise you that I won't bother him any more, if he can spare his nonsenses for himself!
Regards.
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> Henry, I have no intention to stalk you. The post from Prodigy I placed on
> the internet newsgroup without comment.
> In the AOL version, I preceded the post by saying: "Also Henry Niman gets
> mentioned" without further comment.
> Prodigy post's accuracy, but it is an event (unfortunately) and definitely
> (also unfortunately) news. That should end my comments on the Business
> Week article prior to its release.
that you and several "CHTL bulls" monitor my posts. There have been enough
on-line and off line incidents to warrant further study.
Henry N Fox Chapel
Vanbao Truong
some reasons, he is not posting them any more. I posted several threads
asking him for his opinions but yet to receive anything. Henry, if you
are out there, please reply.
I hope to hear from you soon. I need another biotech company to invest.
I just got out of MABXA with a nice project. I don't know why this
stock is going up without any news so I rather have a bird in hand than
two in the bush. Thanks for bringing MABXA to my attention.
Currently, I am looking at DNAP. The historical chart looks very nice.
Do you know this company at all?
Hope to hear from you soon. Please reply.
Bao
ni...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
suffered. DNAP has some cash problems. I think that they just did a deal to
help out, but I don't like deals when the stock price is so low. SI shows
over 40 million shares outstanding. DNAP has been around for some time, but
their price and balance sheet could use some help.
Henry N Fox Chapel
Vanbao Truong
to follow and update the biotechs. Your posts are extremely
informational and it would be a big loss if you are unable to continue.
I hope will resolve you legal problems soon.
Thanks for your comment about DNAP. I got in some and am watching it
closely. I think this recent agreement which guarantees DNAP's R&D for
the next 10 years will help the company alot.
Thanks again Henry.
Bao