Larry Pesavento - another CROOK - can't trade but "teaches" read on >>>>>>>>>
consuming
Larry Pesavento - TradingTutor.com $107,000 retirement money lost by
professional stock trader Tucson Arizona
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Company
Larry Pesavento - TradingTutor.com
Address:
4625 E. Camino Rosa
Tucson Arizona 85718
U.S.A.
Phone:
520-529-0469
Fax: 520-529-0491
Email: tom...@dakotacom.net
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On 11/05/2001 I placed my retirement money ($190,000.00) with Larry
Pesavento, a professional stock trader in Tucson, AZ, and paid him a
management/set-up fee of $3,800.00 (2%) to trade my account.
Shortly after the first of the year (2002) he recommended that one of
his students trade my account as he did not have time for it. He
assured me that this gentleman was his best student and that he would
look after the account activity closely.
While I was in Chicage (April 2002) on business, I received a frantic
phone call from Mr. Pesavento in Tucson stating that the gentleman
trading my account had lost $107,000.00 in a quick series of losing
trades over the past 2-3 days.
He assured me that he could get the money back. I immediately closed
the account to trading within the hour.
In November and December 2002 Mr. Pesavento started another smaller
commodity account for me to "get the loss back". This account rose to
approximately 40,000 over the next few weeks, and then started
dropping over the next several weeks to around $22,000. At this point
I called Mr. Pesavento and asked him what was going on with the
declining balance, wherein he apologized that he had forgotten the
positions he had taken in the account and I decided to take him off
the account as a trader.
From December 2002 until the present he has refused to make up for the
loss or trade an account responsibly to regain the loss. He stated
that there was nothing more he could do for me, that the loss was not
his responsibility. I recently have received copies of email
correspondence from the second gentleman regarding my loss, and in two
e-mails, Mr. Pesavento has admitted responsibility for the loss, but
asked the student trader not to discuss this loss episode with me, and
he has also asked that before the student trader sends any email
correspondence to me that he, Mr. Pesavento, be permitted to review it
first. He will not even return the $3,800.00 account management fee
that I paid him!!!
Jack
Gaffney, South Carolina
U.S.A.
riskarb
$100k? A fool and his money...
arb.
"consuming" <cons...@hispavista.com> wrote in message
news:46625664.03112...@posting.google.com...
targetrader
Mr. Pesavento and be able to recoup your losses.
From the NFA web site it appears that Mr. Pasavento has been
registered as a principal and associated person for the past 15 years
under various firms. I do not know if he or any of the principals are
separately registered as a CTA. If he were, then he would have a
disclosure document that he would have been required to give you prior
to entering into any trading arrangement on your behalf, setting forth
an audited and verificable trading track record. If he did give you
such a document, then your losses are unfortunate, but probably not
much you can do about it, since he would not have misrepresented
anything (assuming his oral statements were not contradictory to those
set forth in the disclosure document). On the other hand, the
business concerning his student would be a different matter.
Furthermore, if he did not give you a disclosure document, then what
he did in losing your money is probably actionable on your part.
Did you sign an account management agreement with him, and if so, did
it contain adequate disclosures concerning risk? Did it include
references to any prior track record? Even if it set forth the
standard disclaimers, if he previously traded for others (or even just
for himself) and sustained net losses or even net profits, but didn't
tell you that, then that would be a material omission and may
constitute fraud (a fraud judgment cannot be discharged in
bankruptcy). Furthermore, the experience of the student trader would
also be relevant. Was the student's track record disclosed?
You should also consult with the enforcement offices of the NFA and
CFTC. That won't cost you anything and just by getting them involved,
that may put pressure on Mr. Pesavento to reach a settlement with you.
Whatever you do, you should do it sooner rather than later. The longer
you sit on this, the more opportunity he has to do the same to others.
Peace,
Lowell
consuming
minute chart of the emini SP. If that was true man, he sure would be
rich. 20 points in 1 1/2 days. Day in day out? eh eh eh!
Another way to look at it: if his stuff works, and if Miner's or Bryce
Gilmore's (there are all friends and know each other) "knowledge"
mimics the "truth" they would be doing this:
- live by the sea.
- manage money (at least USD100M if not more).
- change their internet presence to one where all three identify
themselves as money managers.
There's a world of diference between sites by Robert Miner, Larry
Pesavento and Bryce Gilmore and those of
- Ed Seykota
- Curtis Faith
- Galt Capital
- Cheesepake Capital
- etc,
- etc,
Still another way to look at it: do Miner, Pesavento or Gilmore
present IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE of how much they have been making for the
last 20 years???
I'll even include Linda Raschke, Robert Krausz, the Longs (family of
Krausz in the busniess of astro "finance" - love the term eh eh eh ),
Bressert and all other vendors out there. I mean there are thousands
of them. A bunch of cynics, liars, crooks, swindlers.
targetrader
wrote:
If they are registered CTAs, then they will have a disclosure document
that sets forth audited trading results. If they can't produce that
(regardless of whether or not they are registered CTAs), then why
would you place nearly $200,000 of your reitrement money with them? Of
the aforementioned gurus, I know of one who has never made money, yet
manages several million dollars of other people's money, and another
one who is a so-called "expert" but now follow's Woodie's CCI method
and I believe is affliated with him. The blind leading the blind.
Peace,
Lowell
consuming
But the law should allow the person who placed money with them to get
it all back plus a very large sum in moral compensation and as a fine.
Someone who publishes a website like Pesavento does, publishes books
and now even sort of sells software (ensign) or has an association
with them should be held accountable to his actions.
targetrader <in...@targetrading.com> wrote in message news:<8l3asvkbfdr3i7057...@4ax.com>...
targetrader
wrote:
>I agree with you.
>But the law should allow the person who placed money with them to get
>it all back plus a very large sum in moral compensation and as a fine.
>Someone who publishes a website like Pesavento does, publishes books
>and now even sort of sells software (ensign) or has an association
>with them should be held accountable to his actions.
>
>
Please read my prior post which I also emailed to you. The law DOES
provide a remedy for you. You just need to file a complaint with the
appropriate agency, or perhaps file a civil lawsuit, or both. If what
you posted is true, then he breached his fiduciary duty to you by
being asleep at the switch and then passing the trading responsibility
off to a "student". And you say you have copies of emails from him to
the student admitting that the losses were his responsibility. That's
a no brainer. So either do something about this or forget about it and
move on.
Peace,
Lowell
consuming
happened to him. With Pesavento my story is simple: I paid two months
to read his rela time comments. He was absent most of the time.
Instead his student "Kerry Symansky" did most of the blah-blah-blah.
I spoke to several of the 45 people who log in. Not ONE SINGLE
"member" managed to make profits at the end of as much as 8 months.
All the people I spoke to did real trades on simulation sites.
Many, many times, the Emini SP broke out (it lives of that if case you
wonder). Yet these guys (Pesavento and Kerry) were LOOKING TO SHORT
and never, not once did they look to ride the trend. Amazing!
(Pesavento is an "expert"? Really? Of what exactly?)
Then he mixes price action with PLANETARY motion, ASTRAL VIBRATIONS,
MOON PHASES, ECLIPSES ...
Pesavento actually told me once to DROP ALL INDICATORS AND TRADE MY
GUT FEELINGS. Eh eh eh - I ain't that naive.
This was back in August. I got mad about his incompetence. Then I
started seeing that he is just like everyone else who "teaches".
Sucessful traders don't teach full time. The really sucessful people
TRADE and those who like to have a business set-up become CTA's, hire
lawyers to make sure compliance is up to scratch as it should be, and
then there are those who like to keep more private business -
unsolicited such as Seykota.
It took me 3 years to arrive at these conclusions:
- You needn't have a "super" system.
- You needn't be right about the market.
- You can't trade based on intuition.
- There's nothing to explain about the markets - geometrics,
fibonastics, astronomics, eliotics, and all the other bullshit that
goes with it.
- Every one teaching and especially those who write books are all a
bunch of cynics. Gann is a perfect example. His son says that his dad
had to sell courses to earn a living ...
- Trading is all about position sizing and risk management - THIS IS
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE ACCURACY OF THE SYSTEM. This is EXACTLY
WHAT will make your results INCREDIBLE or simply average!!! The
diference between a fixed ratio approach and a dynamic approach duirng
the first year is 3 times more and increases exponentially with
time!!!! It is NOT in the SYSTEM to make PROFITS! The system is only a
pretext to trade! PROFITS come from the position sizing algorithm and
the risk management methodology! and the whole thing is very simple!
it is basic mathematics...
- You only need to have a system with 40% good trades and decent
frequency
- You should follow trends
- You must cut your losses or keep them at the level which makes it
possible to benefit from the winners
- You must work on yourself. The market is perfect to play out drama
- The market is NOT a way of living. You must entertain the mind
whilst you monitor prices with the system. This activity is perfect
for someone who likes reading and listening to music.
- It is really very easy to make money at the markets - real easy -
but beware of the mind!You must develop the mental skill of detaching,
of being an observer of yourself. It is very dificult at the begining
but then it becomes so easy. The empty chair analogy is helpful.
I hope nothing but have a lot of faith in myself. the universe gave me
very good qualities to trade.
Tony
Dave
(1) You do not need to be a CTA to trade other people's accounts. You
must, however, disclose that you are not a CTA, and that you are
trading for fewer than XX accounts (I believe the number is 12, but it
might have changed). I may be wrong, but I also don't think you need
to provide past history to prospective clients. Of course, if you
*do*provide it, it must be accurate and be accompanied by a "past
results are not indicative of future results" type of disclaimer.
(2) Interestingly, the CFTC can claim that you *are* a CTA, even
though you don't claim to be (they call it an "unregistered CTA"). To
quote from a recent case, "Read gave commodity futures trading advice
for compensation or profit and, therefore, he is a CTA, and was a CTA
even before he registered as such". See:
http://www.cftc.gov/enf/00orders/enfnatt.htm for specifics. This is a
case against New Age Trading Techniques and Global Futures Exchange
and Trading Compny. (Remember NATT?)
(3) I disagree that all teachers are not good traders. Despite the
many scammers out there, I know of several who do well at both. I
consider myself to be a good trader, and I teach trading. There is a
non-monetary reason for teaching. Teaching reinforces and keeps fresh
the principles by which you trade. After all, you cannot *not* follow
your trading methodologies when you are in front of students. I found
this to be true outside of trading also. While running a CPA
practice, I taught as Associate Professor of Business at a local
university. The teaching experience was of tremendous help to me in
my practice.
(4) No matter how one tries to observe the laws and regulations
enforced by the CFTC, that doesn't guarantee you that you will not be
investigated. Even if you pass their scrutiny, you will still have
incurred sizeable legal fees and major disruption in your business and
personal life. A good friend of mine (used to be my broker) just paid
$25,000 in fines because he neglected to put a disclaimer on his
website (although he did provide one to students who signed up for his
course). His alternative was to incur $40,000 to $50,000 in legal
fees to defend himself. He opened the registered mail from the CFTC
on a Thursday. They demanded that he show up in Washington, DC on the
following Tuesday with all his records, including e-records. He
liives in Chicago. Talk about a hassle!
(5) Robert Miner has been around a long time, and I don't believe he
is a scammer. I've gone over his materials. While his methodology
doesn't work 100% of the time (whose does?), it is pretty good, and
follows a logic based on market action.
(6) In developing my website, I've been on pins and needles, worrying
about what to include and what to omit without incurring CFTC
investigation. As it stands now, I'm reluctant to post my trading
logs, even though they are accurate and not hypothetical. I'm
debating whether to post the chat room logs, which give no advice as
to buy and sell recommentions, but which also can't be faked, since
they are recorded real time. The problem is, the chat room is for
students, who can observe the trade setups as they relate to my
teaching manual. If I make them public, does that put me at risk of
breaking some regulation?
(7) No matter what, if you endeavor to trade, you *must* have a
methodology (or more than one); a cohesive "plan". If you don't, you
will most certainly fail. That leads us to this: do you try to
invent your own methodology (and lose a lot of time and money during
development) or do you take advantage of those methods of others, that
have actually worked (these are few and far between).
Very good thread here.
Dave
(Yankee93)
On 27 Nov 2003 15:22:38 -0800, cons...@hispavista.com (consuming)
wrote:
riskarb
cannot operate for income. An important distinction.
arb.
"Dave" <zzyan...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:pi0fsv02e827o3s54...@4ax.com...
Jessie
publication to ensure compliance, and has a very simple procedure in place
to do so.
Jessie
targetrader
>Some things in this thread need clarification, I think.
>
>(1) You do not need to be a CTA to trade other people's accounts. You
>must, however, disclose that you are not a CTA, and that you are
>trading for fewer than XX accounts (I believe the number is 12, but it
>might have changed). I may be wrong, but I also don't think you need
>to provide past history to prospective clients. Of course, if you
>*do*provide it, it must be accurate and be accompanied by a "past
>results are not indicative of future results" type of disclaimer.
The number of people for whom you trade cannot exceed 15. Note that in
order to avail yourself of the exemption from registration as a CTA,
you must comply with all the requirements for exemption. If you do not
do that, then you would be deemed to be operating as an unregistered
CTA.
Here is the language from the CFTC web site:
Section 4m(1) of the Commodity Exchange Act provides an exemption from
registration for a person who, in the preceding twelve months, has not
furnished commodity trading advice to more than 15 persons and who
does not hold himself out generally to the public as a CTA.
Section 4m(3) provides an exemption from CTA registration for a
person: (1) who is registered with the Securities and Exchange
Commission as an investment adviser; (2) whose business does not
consist primarily of acting as a commodity trading advisor; and (3)
who does not act as a commodity trading advisor to any investment
trust, syndicate, or similar form of enterprise that is engaged
primarily in trading in any commodity for future delivery on or
subject to the rules of any contract market or registered derivatives
transaction execution facility.(This section was added to the CEA by
the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.)
Rule 4.14 ( 17 C.F.R. 4.14) provides that a person who meets the
requirements set forth in any one of paragraphs (a)(1) through (9) of
the Rule is not required to register as a CTA. If a person is exempt
from registration as a CTA pursuant to paragraph (a)(8) of the Rule,
the person must file with the National Futures Association a notice of
exemption. While the Commission does not have a standard format for
the notice of exemption, paragraph (iii) of the Rule provides that
certain information and representations be included.
The relief available under Sections 4m(1) and 4m(3) of the CEA and
Rules 4.14(a)(1) through (7) and (9) is self-executing. Thus, these
persons are not required to file any notice or make any specified
representations to claim the relief.
In addition, the Commission has proposed changes to its Part 4 rules
that relate to Section 4m(1) and Rule 4.14
>
>(2) Interestingly, the CFTC can claim that you *are* a CTA, even
>though you don't claim to be (they call it an "unregistered CTA"). To
>quote from a recent case, "Read gave commodity futures trading advice
>for compensation or profit and, therefore, he is a CTA, and was a CTA
>even before he registered as such". See:
>http://www.cftc.gov/enf/00orders/enfnatt.htm for specifics. This is a
>case against New Age Trading Techniques and Global Futures Exchange
>and Trading Compny. (Remember NATT?)
>(4) No matter how one tries to observe the laws and regulations
>enforced by the CFTC, that doesn't guarantee you that you will not be
>investigated. Even if you pass their scrutiny, you will still have
>incurred sizeable legal fees and major disruption in your business and
>personal life. A good friend of mine (used to be my broker) just paid
>$25,000 in fines because he neglected to put a disclaimer on his
>website (although he did provide one to students who signed up for his
>course). His alternative was to incur $40,000 to $50,000 in legal
>fees to defend himself. He opened the registered mail from the CFTC
>on a Thursday. They demanded that he show up in Washington, DC on the
>following Tuesday with all his records, including e-records. He
>liives in Chicago. Talk about a hassle!
The CFTC, as is true with all other governmental bureaucracies, has to
justify its existence, and it does so by overkill. Interestingly, its
handling of cases sometimes leads to inconsistent results, where some
minor violators are given severe penalties and barred from the
industry, and others are given a slap on the wrist and allowed to
continue. See, especially,
http://www.cftc.gov/opa/enf03/opa4830-03.htm, and ask yourself why
this fellow, who supposedly misappropriated several hundred thousand
dollars of investor funds, is allowed to continue marketing his
methods with a mere requirement that he post a "warning" on his web
site (the large fine they imposed will probably never be collected, as
enforcement of such penalties seems to be spotty at best).
>
>(6) In developing my website, I've been on pins and needles, worrying
>about what to include and what to omit without incurring CFTC
>investigation. As it stands now, I'm reluctant to post my trading
>logs, even though they are accurate and not hypothetical. I'm
>debating whether to post the chat room logs, which give no advice as
>to buy and sell recommentions, but which also can't be faked, since
>they are recorded real time. The problem is, the chat room is for
>students, who can observe the trade setups as they relate to my
>teaching manual. If I make them public, does that put me at risk of
>breaking some regulation?
In 2000, the CFTC exempted from registration certain "CTAs" who render
trading advice over the internet and who don't specifically direct
client accounts. See:
http://www.cftc.gov/foia/fedreg00/foi000310a.htm
This is the result of the CFTC's overly aggressive tactics which,
according to a few Federal court decisions, happened to stomp on first
amendment rights of those targeted.
You can have the NFA look at your site and give you a "non binding"
preliminary approval (they coordinate this with the CFTC). I know this
service is available to registered CTAs, but I don't know if it is
available if you are NOT so registered. Even though it is "non
binding" as to enforcement action, it is unlikely you would have a
problem with them as long as you kept the site as approved. When I had
them look at my site (when I was a CTA), they gave some useful advice.
Their main concern with me was that they wanted to make sure that
those visiting my site would see my disclosure document before they
could see anything else.
As long as you do not post any "misleading" information, such as
doctored trading logs or false performance records, you should be ok.
Peace,
Lowell
consuming
I will accept that some sucessful traders teach BUT they tend NOT to:
- advertise publicly that they teach (as Pesavento does)
- spend hours on line regurgitating "commentary" (as Linda Raschke
does)
- use planetary motion to determine trades (as the Longs did - they're
out of business since 2000 - accounts bankrupted ...)
A guy like Ed Seykota teaches. And thank God he does! I took two
ultra-expensive seminars with Tharp (understood shit and I did the BA
with 3.89 GPA, honors courses at the U. of Michigan '88, then a MA at
the U. of Chicago, also top honors). Then I went up to Boulder,
Colorado - NLP Comprehensive and I got it all in the first 3 days (15
days intensive certification) ... for half the price of what I paid
Tharp.
Do some research and see for yourself the style between Seykota's
educational efforts and all these crooks, bastards, liars, scammers.
For God's sake!
I mean VERY FEW PEOPLE are willing to talk about this. Man it makes me
MAD! There's a number of sons of a bitch liars and crooks out there
suggesting, eluding, that they trade. They trade NOTHING. They are a
bunch of LOOSERS. NAmes?
- Pring
- John Murphy
- Bollinger
- Wells Wilder
- Appel
- Pesavento
- GIlmore
- Miner
- the Longs
- Krausz
- Linda Raschke
- Tharp
- George Lane
- etc
- etc
Not ONE single bastard will actually post AUDITED trading statements
for the last 20 years! NO ONE SINGLE ONE! So, what do they do? Trade?
Really? You got to be kidding me man!
targetrader
month and boy, was he strange. He would scream out abuses, whether you
asked him a question or not. Without saying as much, he intimated
that he made a lot of money trading, but never made a specific claim
in that regard, although one of his students by the name of "Mike"
purported to be making obscene amounts of money. Hard to tell, since
neither or them EVER called a trade in real time (his escuse for this
was that he didn't want to get in trouble with the CFTC). He only
charged $90 per month to be in his room and purported to teach his
methodology. However, he was so lacking in his ability to teach that
it would probably take you a year or more to learn it. I left after a
month when I saw him looking at different indicators each day --
changing the time charts or indicators to fit the day's pattern.
Pretty useless stuff, but some people swear by him.
Peace,
Lowell
On 28 Nov 2003 16:11:38 -0800, cons...@hispavista.com (consuming)
wrote:
>Dave:
Dave
I would take exception to three of the names on the list below:
John Murphy - I don't think he ever held himself out to be a trader.
Linda Raschke-Last I heard, she was running a couple of off-shore
funds... so she must be trading. Also her live chat room gives real
time trades. Whether she takes them or not, I don't know. What's
important though, is if they "work". Generally, they do more often
than not, but certainly not to 100%. While I don't necessarily
agree with all of her strategies or entry/exit points, I don't think
she's a charlatan. I thought her writings in "Street Smarts" were
very good.
Robert Miner - His course material is good, and has even been adapted
(read "stolen" ) by an advisor in TradingMarkets.com. My biggest
issue with him is that he believes in time-cycles and I don't. His
stuff on market action (pretty much Elliot stuff) is good though..
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:57:53 GMT, targetrader <in...@targetrading.com>
wrote:
Never heard of the Gann Wheel Man. But then, I'm not a believer in
Gann stuff anyhow. But I know the type of person you're talking
about. All bluster, all full-of-themselves. And they couldn't pull a
nickel out of the market if their life depended on it.
Dave
(yankee93)
consuming
> funds... so she must be trading. Also her live chat room gives real
> time trades. Whether she takes them or not, I don't know. What's
> important though, is if they "work". Generally, they do more often
> than not, but certainly not to 100%. While I don't necessarily
> agree with all of her strategies or entry/exit points, I don't think
> she's a charlatan. I thought her writings in "Street Smarts" were
> very good.
The stuff in "Street Smarts" doesn't work.
She NEVER, EVER gives "exits"
Besides, tha's no way to trade. You can ONLY make consistent profits
if (among other things) you trade mechanically AND have in place a
comprenesive position sizing nad risk management method. He shows
nothing on those areas. Most certainly she knows nothnig about that!
> Robert Miner - His course material is good, and has even been adapted
> (read "stolen" ) by an advisor in TradingMarkets.com. My biggest
> issue with him is that he believes in time-cycles and I don't. His
> stuff on market action (pretty much Elliot stuff) is good though.
Same thing.
Kevin
of my techniques to trade the emini sp daily. ( which i do by the way)
You have never seen anyone as good as the ACE_OF_TRADES
EMAIL daytrade...@bmts.com for more information on how to access
the free demo room and learn to read charts properly and do proce
projections without the use of them dang indicators.
I would like to take this time to introduce to you the course outline
for the upcomming session . Just so everyone has an outline of some of
the topics discussed we are presenting it as follows.
The course is now being held in hotcomm so you can see my chart setup
examples and learn accordingly.. currently hotcomm is free for you to
use. I have provide payment for you for free. With trainin in the
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becomming confident traders with success in a very short time frame. (
the discipline is always up to you)
The course amount is 1000 dollars and you can email me for payment
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( with the course fee there is a unlimited membership included and you
can stay for daly technical analysis for as long as you like) after
the month long course!!!!
We trade using only support and resistance and we use no indicators (
but we also know whos buying and or selling and at what price this is
key)
Throw out your dang indicators they do not work.!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
1. Introduction to the proper importance of the basics. ( to get you
started)
2. Winning traders psychology ( continuous for the entire month ,what
seperates you
from the loosers, eliminating scalpers mantality).Daytraders
Academy (Course Curriculum)
3. Risk management techniques.
4. Money management techniques.
5. Trade management techniques. (Proper stop loss. Locating and
working towards
price magnets for entrys and of course for exiting at a profit)
6. The proper usage of a day to day trendline.
7. The importance of the number 3 in daily action.
8. The proper usage of candle sticks.
9. Why Fridays are key balancing days.
10.Continuation Setups
11.Reversal Setups.
12. The Proper interpretation of overnight action (YOU WONT WANT TO
MISS
THIS !!!!!!!!)
13. Swings
14. Extensions
15. Spikes and Seekers
16. Pipeline Trades
Now For The More Advanced Material
1. How to play the absolute daily range. (typically 10-15pts)
2. Time and price
3. Price magnets for entry and exits.
4. How to locate a 10 point +++ trade. (and enter with a one point
stop.)
5. Getting on the right side before the news.
6. Position trading. 20-40 point trades with one point stops.
7. The big market picture and elimination of small trade mantality.
8. Where the big money is buying and selling.
9. Price Projections for entrys and exits.
10. Putting it all together and resolving previous trading mistakes.
11. How to interperet the next days action.
12. How to interperet a range day as its happening not after!!!!!!
AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON
#100 The Celebration
If you have any additional questions please feel free to pm me or
return email.
ACE
There is a significant risk of loss in futures trading. Only
discretionary funds should be used, as past performance cannot
determine future results.
Here is a success letter from one of our students.
Kevin Kelly
It has been great success for me to trade with you. I have improved my
trading to the level where i have not had loosing day for just over
one month. your technique for support and resistance are 0ne or two
ticks away from the numbers or most of the time right on the numbers.
which gives you 10+ point winners. Also your technique for picking
tops and bottom are so right that you will not miss a big move.Trading
with you I was able to pick + 18 points on one friday. You brought me
huge sucess on trading with your information and techniques. I wish
you great success on your trading and all the best wishes,
Thank you for providing knowledge on trading. Lets keep up the huge
success.
Best Regards,
Mike Anand
California
Ace, I can't tell you how much your teaching has helped me win in the
futures market everyday. I am amazed at how well you can read the
market and how you taught me to read the market. I've thrown out the
indicators! I prefer to know what the market is going to do, not let
an indicator tell me after the fact. After three years of hit and
miss, I now have the confidence to take a profit out of the market
each day, thanks to your training. I will never be able to thank you
enough. Sincerely, Nancy R
eiving this message from Daytrader's Academy you have
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MAY HAVE UNDER OR OVER-COMPENSATEDFOR THE IMPACT, IF ANY, OF CERTAIN
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PERFORMANCE RECORD, SIMULATED RESULTS DO NOT REPRESENT ACTUAL
TRADING. ALSO, SINCE THE TRADES
HAVE NOT BEEN EXECUTED, THE RESULTS MAY HAVE UNDER OR OVER
COMPENSATED FOR THE IMPACT, IF ANY,
OF CERTAIN MARKET FACTORS, SUCH AS LACK OF LIQUIDITY. SIMULATED
TRADING PROGRAMS IN GENERAL ARE
ALSO SUBJECT TO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE DESIGNED WITH THE BENEFIT OF
HINDSIGHT. NO REPRESENTATION
IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFITS OR
LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE
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Nothing in this Website, the Course Manual or
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Again, the purpose of the
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Because the market environment is dynamic the trader must be prepared
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develop. Because of the financial risk associated with trading the
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riskarb
spam, hilarious.
arb.
"Kevin" <daytrade...@bmts.com> wrote in message
news:a1d6adfa.0311...@posting.google.com...
riskarb
Benjamin Ng
I too tried to learn from some of the well known professionals. I think
most of the "Market Wizards" in Jack Schwager's books and Robbins
World Cup Winners can teach you a piece of something here or there if
not a complete system. You just have to add all those pieces together
you have collected from various sources into a complete system.
I have never subscribed to Larry Pesavento's services, but I do know of
his Fibonacci Gartley Butterfly pattern.
I would avoid Elliott Wave gurus or software. Anyone or any software
getting the count right with any consistency beyond 50/50 is probably
hard to find.
Dewey/Hurst time cycles I have seen does not work consistently because
time cycles expand/contract, invert or disappear. You have to pay
attention to the "right" cycles. Which leads to Gann. A lot of Gann
gurus will CLAIM to know his secrets, but of course actually don't. But
he did have methods that work. I have seen a FEW Gann students actually
give pinpoint forecasts like Gann did by figuring out "Tunnel Thru the
Air" or how to price square time. The problem is not that Gann was a
fraud but that he intended to be myterious in his writing. If some of
these gurus interpret him wrong, they will give bad forecasts. A good
Gann expert is hard to find.
I have heard of William Dunnigan and Ken Roberts, but don't know too
much about how their methods work.
I will disagree with the criticism of Linda Raschke. I do believe in
intermediate term volatility breakout via ADX, std deviation, VIX, avg
true range, Bollinger Band width, etc. And her "Holy Grail"
retracement/flag continuation pattern seems to work.
MY IDEAS FOR BUILDING A COMPLETE SYSTEM
1. WHICH MARKET to trade via volatility breakout/CFTC commercial
activity as suggested by Larry Williams. WHAT TIME FRAME to trade based
on your personality?
2. ENTRY whether through regular technical analysis like moving average
and oscilators or through Gann.
3. POSITION/BET SIZE as suggested by Larry Williams and Van K. Tharp
4. EXIT to ride winning trends/swings and cut losses short with a moving
average/channel breakout/oscillator turn in books by John Murphy/Martin
Pring/Perry J. Kaufman
FAVOURITE BOOKS
1. How to Trade Stocks by Jesse Livermore
2. 45 Years in Wall Street & How to Make Profits in Commodities by W. D.
Gann
3. The Definitive Guide to Futures Trading Vol 1-2 & Day Trade Futures
Online by Larry Williams
4. Trading by the Book, Trading Spreads and Seasonals, Trading is a
Business by Joe Ross
5. The Professional Commodity Trader & Kroll on Futures Trading Strategy
by Stanley Kroll
6. Martin Zweig's Winning on Wall Street
7. Trader Vic by Victor Sperandeo
8. Four Steps to Trading Success by John F. Clayburg
9. The Trading Rule that can Make you Rich by Edward Dobson
10. Futures Spread Trading: The Complete Guide by Courtney D. Smith
11. All books by Jack Schwager, John Train, When Super Traders Meet
Kryponite by Art collins and Technically Speaking: Tips and Strategies
From 16 Top Analysts by Chris Wilkinson
12. Mind over Markets by Jones & Dalton, and Steidlmayer on the Markets
13. All trading psychology books by Van k. Tharp, Edward Allen Toppel,
Ari Kiev, Jake Bernstein, Mark Douglas, Brett Steenbarger, and Richard
D. McCall--in short, take up Zen Buddism beliefs, have faith and
confidence in your system and disassociate when emotional
Dave
and modified some of her stuff (actually, a lot of her stuff is pretty
commonly used by a lot of people). Some of her stuff should be
disregarded out of hand if you're day trading. No surprise there:
many methods that work in position and swing trading don't work in day
trading (why can't people get that through their heads?)
If you're looking for a completely mechanical "system", then be
prepared for large draw downs and mediocre win/losss rations.
Look, folks... here's a very simple concept: trend following methods
don't work if the market isn't trending (and on an intra day basis, it
only trends about 1/3 of the time). Most, if not all, *systems*--even
the better ones--entail draw downs that most of us can't tolerate (at
least I can't, and most traders that I know of can't).
Here's another one: the *context* of the market will determine
whether or not a certain pattern/indicator/signal is likely to work.
If you're trading MA crossovers in a market that is not trending, or
is flat and choppy, you'll get creamed. If you try to use a
retracement method in either a choppy or runaway market, you'll never
get into a trade. Patterns, indicators and methods don't work if they
are not in *context* with the market's current mode.
Why people insist on trading the market according to some statistical
or mathmatical model is beyond me. The market is a composite of
thousands of opinions, fears, greeds, panics, hopes, foibles, etc.
Does anyone really think this can all be neatly fit into a model or
system? Let me say this outright: I know of NO trader who has lasted
in this business using a completely mechanical system....none. And
I've been trading since 1974 (futures since 1994). There may be some
out there, but I don't know of them.
One of the best (if not THE best) traders/teachers I know of uses a
very good methodology which encompasses entry points, protective
stops, initial exit points (he trades multiple contracts)...the whole
nine yards. But even he will often not take a trade via his
methodology if the market context doesn't support it. And when he
does, he's fully cognizant that it's a *counter* trend trade, and
keeps his stops and targets tight, accordingly.
Keep this thread going.... it's good stuff.
Dave
On 29 Nov 2003 03:54:48 -0800, cons...@hispavista.com (consuming)
wrote:
Bill
This is for anyone reading this subject.
-------------
Did you go to the Online Trading Expo in Las Vegas? It just finished last
Sunday. I had a booth at the Expo and so did Larry Pesavento. He was also
doing "seminars" also. If you did attend....you could have confronted him
in person.
I hope you go after him....because there are too many "so called experts"
that deserve to be in jail.
I am an active trader and I teach trading....and the reason I had a booth at
the expo was because of people like him ripping off traders. There are so
many of these "book writer"...."video producers"....and others who teach
classes....that don't know the first thing about trading. Several years
ago....I took a one week course....paid $5000....and "learned how to lose
money". I almost went broke. The person who taught this course....lost
close to 1.5 million dollars for a client of his....who....believe or
not....had taken his course. He lost the money in approximately three
months. If I would have known this....before I took the course....I could
have saved a lot of agony and sleepless nights.
I studied and studied the market....and developed a very disciplined and
simple method of trading....but I had to do it on my own. I actually got
into teaching earlier this year....by accident. I got fed up with seeing
all these "experts" peddling there books and video's on eBay. So....I put
together a small package to show people how I trade....and it blew me away
on the response I got. Many of the traders who bought my little
package....asked me if I had classes. I was totally happy with just my day
trading. But....I finally decided to do classes and rented a booth at the
Expo. To me....it seems there are a lot of "almost scam artist" peddling
there classes at the Expo.
Go after him. By the way....you can probably still get a copy of the "Expo
Directory Foldout" from Online Trading Expo. It shows when Pesavento gave
his seminars and stage presentation. His booth was # 626.
I am not telling you the name of my company....because I just want to
express my feelings about what you have gone through. Good luck to you.
Sue the bastard.
Bill
"consuming" <cons...@hispavista.com> wrote in message
news:46625664.03112...@posting.google.com...
Kevin
.
#100 The Celebration
ACE
Dave <zzyan...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message news:<klrhsvg46t44solt6...@4ax.com>...
consuming
called "John Hill". Now this one never made a single dime in the
market. and he dedicates himself to testing automated systems. He's
got NO idea of money management. The only thing he or Pesavento know
is fixed ratio. Actually Pesavento told me (whilst I subscribed to his
IRC thing) that all books on risk management were way too complicated.
They don't even imagine what models on position sizing exist out there
or how creative one can be with them!
consuming
cos' if they did they sure wouldn't do what they do ...
hey some people play music, others listen ...
"riskarb" <riska...@yahooSPAM.com> wrote in message news:<8S2yb.7575$aw2.2...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
