Roth Conversion 5-year Rule

[Bill Woessner]

I have a Roth IRA that contains regular contributions, conversions from both deductible and non-deductible IRA contributions (including a 401k rollover) and earnings. I was recently pondering how much of a distribution I could take from my Roth IRA without paying taxes or penalties. I won't be 59.5 for quite a while.

Initially, I thought this would be pretty complicated to figure out. I have read about the 5-year rule for Roth conversions. But I decided to just go to the horse's mouth and work through an example. So I grabbed form 8606 and the instructions and went to work in Excel. If I'm doing this correctly - which is always questionable - it seems the 5-year rule does not apply if this is your first Roth distribution.

The issue appears to be line 24. I will repeat the pertinent instructions here so you don't have to look them up:

"If you did not take such a distribution before 2014, enter on line 24 the total of all your conversions to Roth IRAs (other than amounts recharacterized). These amounts are shown on line 14c of your 1998, 1999, and 2000 Forms 8606 and line 16 of your 2001 through 2014 Forms 8606. Also include on line 24 any amounts rolled over from a qualified retirement plan to a Roth IRA for 2008, 2009, and 2011 to 2014 reported on your Form 1040, Form 1040A, or Form 1040NR, and line 21 of your 2010 Form 8606."

Again, assuming this is your first Roth distribution, this should be the paragraph that applies. The directions specifically state to add up all the conversion amounts from 1998-2014. There's no mention of the 5-year rule. In fact, I don't see any mention of the 5-year rule for conversions anywhere in the instructions. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Bill

[Tad Borek]

On 6/16/2015 2:04 PM, Bill Woessner wrote:
> I grabbed form 8606 and the instructions
>

> There's no mention of the 5-year rule. Am I missing
> something?

Line 19 is where you report "total nonqualified distributions." The
general instructions for Form 8606 describe what a qualified
distribution is:

Qualified distribution. Generally, a qualified distribution is any
distribution from your Roth IRA that meets the following requirements.

1. It is made after the 5-year period beginning with the first year for
which a contribution was made to a Roth IRA (including a conversion or,
in the case of a qualified retirement plan, a rollover) set up for your
benefit, and...


-Tad

[Mark Bole]

You're in the wrong form. Penalties are calculated using Form 5329.

"If you converted or rolled over an
amount to your Roth IRAs in 2010
through 2014 and you received an early
distribution for 2014, the recapture
amount you must include on line 1 is the
amount, if any, of the early distribution
allocated to the taxable portion of your
2010 through 2014 conversions or
rollovers."

--

Mark Bole, EA
http://markboletax.com


======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
wow - sorry for delays approving this!