MMA - is it for real?
Tom Malcolm
me to buy the MMA pay off your house soon
program. It's $3,500. I want to think this
is a scam, but it looks real. I said I could
do this myself - but the someone said,
well have you been doing it? I said no,
and he said with the MMA you will know
you are doing something now. I'm on the
fence - what sayeth the crowd here?
Dave Dodson
It sounds like it might be the program Scott Burns wrote about a while
back in http://assetbuilder.com/blogs/scott_burns/archive/2007/10/26/the-magic-of-a-tricky-mortgage.aspx,
and if so, it is not all it is cracked up to be.
Dave
Elle
coined the name "Money Merge Account" or "MMA" for the
product you mention in the subject line. Fact is one has to
exercise the same amount of discipline with UFF's product
that he or she would without it.
If you must spend money to figure out precisely how to pay
down your mortgage as quickly as possible, spend it on a
reputable, fee only financial advisor. It should cost you a
lot less than the services/product of UFF. The discipline
will always be up to you.
joetaxpayer
Tom Malcolm wrote:
> I was approached by someone who wants
> me to buy the MMA pay off your house soon
> program. It's $3,500. I want to think this
> is a scam, but it looks real.
If you are already saving in your 401(k) and/or IRA, and have no credit
card debt you carry month to month, and you have a comfortable emergency
fund, well then, you are disciplined enough to start a mortgage
prepayment plan on your own, aren't you?
If you don't have the above, that should be the priority.
You mention nothing else about your finances, so let's just stick to
this decision. What is the rate, term, and balance on your mortgage? If
the rate is high, you might consider a refinance. With money drying up,
you should explore your options there.
Let me offer this - if you have 20 years left and a 7% mortgage, just
taking that $3500 will cut $14000 off the back end. Maybe a year, maybe
not, but that's a huge amount to throw down the drain. Since the average
time in a house is 7 years, it's a very small group that buys a house
and keeps the mortgage for the full term. That's something else to think
about.
Will Trice
Follow your first impression: this is a scam. I brought this package up
back in July in the thread, "Formulating decision to take out mortgage
or pay cash for home." A friend of mine almost bought this package.
Using a simple spreadsheet I showed him how MMA would cause him to
*lose* money, even though he would pay his mortgage off early. After
all, MMA works by shifting you out of your mortgage into a higher rate
line of credit.
Would you refinance to a higher rate mortgage? Or use those credit card
checks you get in the mail to make extra principal payments on your
mortgage (assuming non-teaser rates)? These options don't make sense
for the same reason that MMA doesn't make sense.
Good luck,
-Will
william dot trice at ngc dot com
P.Schuman
> back in
http://assetbuilder.com/blogs/scott_burns/archive/2007/10/26/the-magic-of-a-tric
ky-mortgage.aspx,
> and if so, it is not all it is cracked up to be.
>
I've often wondered about those radio commercials
that say... they got rid of their mortgage in just 3 years!
Our LaSalle-ABN/AMRO mortgage just went to Citi,
and their statement makes it easy to track principle pre-payments
so we have been adding $2k every month or so.
Tom Malcolm
are real, and have a valuable product. For me, something
that keeps me in mindset of paying off debt is worth a lot.
Elizabeth Richardson
"Tom Malcolm" <tom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1i9wa1n.1vpc3lpj6zsk2N%tom...@hotmail.com...
> Ok, I investigated them, I studied, and I think they
> are real, and have a valuable product. For me, something
> that keeps me in mindset of paying off debt is worth a lot.
>
Please, if you have an extra $3500, pay down your principal with it, don't
give it to someone else. How does it make sense to borrow money at say, 8%,
to pay back a loan that is only charging you 6%. Don't throw your money
away. The primary rule of getting ahead is "Pay Yourself First".
Elizabeth Richardson
Sgt.Sausage
"Tom Malcolm" <tom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1i9wa1n.1vpc3lpj6zsk2N%tom...@hotmail.com...
> are real, and have a valuable product. For me, something
> that keeps me in mindset of paying off debt is worth a lot.
They *are* for real. That still doesn't make it
a good deal or a prudent use of your money.
The fact of the matter, however, is that:
(a) You can do this yourself, without plunking down
several thousands of dollars of your hard-earned
money
(b) The examples they give (I watched about an hour
long video 2 or 3 years ago -- are they showing the
same video on their website?) ... anyway, the examples
they give, while real, are actually "best case" and
assume you're chucking in money over and above your
minimums, which leads us back to (a) that's something
you can do yourself and don't need to give them
thousands of dollars for.
.
Tom Malcolm
> give it to someone else. How does it make sense to borrow money at say, 8%,
> to pay back a loan that is only charging you 6%. Don't throw your money
> away. The primary rule of getting ahead is "Pay Yourself First".
Update, I bought it, and have no regrets, the financial education,
and goal setting help is worth the price alone, and I have a
path to pay off my debts much faster. My bank knows and
likes the MMA - it helps people get out of debt. So, if you
hate the MMA - make sure you talk to people who bought
and use it before dismissing it as a scam, it is not.
Andrew Koenig
>> Please, if you have an extra $3500, pay down your principal with it,
>> don't
>> give it to someone else. How does it make sense to borrow money at say,
>> 8%,
>> to pay back a loan that is only charging you 6%?
> Update, I bought it, and have no regrets, the financial education,
> and goal setting help is worth the price alone, and I have a
> path to pay off my debts much faster.
This doesn't exactly answer the question, does it?
joetaxpayer
Tom Malcolm wrote:
> Update, I bought it, and have no regrets, the financial education,
> and goal setting help is worth the price alone, and I have a
> path to pay off my debts much faster. My bank knows and
> likes the MMA - it helps people get out of debt. So, if you
> hate the MMA - make sure you talk to people who bought
> and use it before dismissing it as a scam, it is not.
Tom, in your first post you mentioned a $3500 fee. Can you tell us the
interest rate on this deal? And, is that fixed or variable? If variable,
how is the rate set? As always, the group appreciates the follow up.
JOE
Tom Malcolm
the
> interest rate on this deal? And, is that fixed or variable? If variable,
> how is the rate set? As always, the group appreciates the follow up.
> JOE
--
The heloc is variable, in my case 7.5% or so.
The heloc is open-ended, meaning I put my paychecks in
there to help pay it off. I'm not a dealer so I don't want
to write what the MMA is in detail. All I know is, maybe
it's not the best thing to do in theory, but in my case,
it was the best thing for me, individually, to do.
I appreciate the posts warning me, I studied it a lot,
and will live with my decision - which so far, makes
me feel better financially.
joetaxpayer
Tom Malcolm wrote:
> The heloc is variable, in my case 7.5% or so.
> The heloc is open-ended, meaning I put my paychecks in
> there to help pay it off. I'm not a dealer so I don't want
> to write what the MMA is in detail. All I know is, maybe
> it's not the best thing to do in theory, but in my case,
> it was the best thing for me, individually, to do.
>
> I appreciate the posts warning me, I studied it a lot,
> and will live with my decision - which so far, makes
> me feel better financially.
The prime rate is currently 7.25%. So I take it your HELOC is prime +
1/2%. A good site to see historical rates for the prime is
http://www.moneycafe.com/library/prime.htm
You see how we bottomed out in 2003-4 at 4%? This is what I would wish
for you in the current cycle. Although, if we reach that level, you will
likely see the 15 yr fixed rate touching 5% again, and I'd hope you'd
consider that shift if you plan to stay in the home you're in.
I understand your hesitation to offer much more detail on this product.
Perhaps another visitor with inside knowledge can explain how a variable
product at 7.25% can be a better deal than a 30 yr fixed at 5-7/8% (this
is what I find as of last week's data).
Thanks for the reply, Tom
JOE
joetaxpayer
joetaxpayer wrote:
> Tom Malcolm wrote:
>> The heloc is variable, in my case 7.5% or so.
> The prime rate is currently 7.25%. So I take it your HELOC is prime +
> 1/2%.
Typo, of course. "prime + 1/4%"
Will Trice
joetaxpayer wrote:
> Perhaps another visitor with inside knowledge can explain how a variable
> product at 7.25% can be a better deal than a 30 yr fixed at 5-7/8% (this
> is what I find as of last week's data).
From their website, "Qualified homeowners using the Money Merge Account
system can now potentially pay off their mortgage in as little as 1/3 to
1/2 the regular time – with little to no change to their day-to-day
spending habits and without increasing their minimum required monthly
mortgage payments."
joetaxpayer
This is where I get to be dense, Will. I trust the website
http://www.unitedfirstfinancial.com/Default.aspx?tabid=115
is an example of one such plan. Shortening a mortgage from 30 years to
11-1/3 yrs. In that example, a $138,058 mortgage at 5.25% is what is in
place. Is it fair to say that the likely family income is about $70,000
for such a scenario? They have maybe $40,000 sitting in MM funds as an
emergency account? Given the numbers, the current payment is $751/mo. It
would take $1330/mo to get down to 11-1/3 yrs. $579/mo higher payment or
$6948/yr. Now, I understand there's a neat trick to throwing one's
emergency funds at the mortgage, and using an untapped HELOC as
'emergency'. Been there, done that. But here, in this example, 2 or 3%
that can be captured (the delta from the mortgage rate down to today's
MM rates) is $1200 at best, not $7000.
The only other option I can see is if there's some huge CC debt, so that
debt is wiped out by the HELOC, and the payments are kept the same but
all sent to pay off the mortgage+HELOC. But who needs special software
for that?
JOE
Mark Bole
> > Tom, in your first post you mentioned a $3500 fee. Can you tell us
> the
>> interest rate on this deal? And, is that fixed or variable? If variable,
>> how is the rate set? As always, the group appreciates the follow up.
>> JOE
> The heloc is variable, in my case 7.5% or so.
> The heloc is open-ended, meaning I put my paychecks in
> there to help pay it off. I'm not a dealer so I don't want
> to write what the MMA is in detail. All I know is, maybe
> it's not the best thing to do in theory, but in my case,
> it was the best thing for me, individually, to do.
>
> I appreciate the posts warning me, I studied it a lot,
> and will live with my decision - which so far, makes
> me feel better financially.
There you have it. People do not always make rational economic
decisions, and often are willing to pay others to do what they cannot
bring themselves to do, regardless of capability.
For example, if you and I both are able to routinely change the oil in
our cars, but you enjoy it and I despise it -- or I have plenty of
disposable income and you don't -- guess which one of us will pay a
premium at the quick-oil-change place?
It's not "paying yourself first", but it happens. Or, as the OP stated,
"The heloc is open-ended, meaning I put my paychecks in there to help
pay it off."
-Mark Bole
Will Trice
joetaxpayer wrote:
> This is where I get to be dense, Will. I trust the website
> http://www.unitedfirstfinancial.com/Default.aspx?tabid=115
> is an example of one such plan.
Ha! You're not being dense at all, that's my job. The site you cite is
the site where I got the quote. I didn't want to cite the site so as
not to encourage others to go there...
> Shortening a mortgage from 30 years to
> 11-1/3 yrs. In that example, a $138,058 mortgage at 5.25% is what is in
> place. Is it fair to say that the likely family income is about $70,000
> for such a scenario? They have maybe $40,000 sitting in MM funds as an
> emergency account? Given the numbers, the current payment is $751/mo. It
> would take $1330/mo to get down to 11-1/3 yrs. $579/mo higher payment or
> $6948/yr. Now, I understand there's a neat trick to throwing one's
> emergency funds at the mortgage, and using an untapped HELOC as
> 'emergency'. Been there, done that. But here, in this example, 2 or 3%
> that can be captured (the delta from the mortgage rate down to today's
> MM rates) is $1200 at best, not $7000.
There is no dount that a user of this software will end up worse off
financially.
> The only other option I can see is if there's some huge CC debt, so that
> debt is wiped out by the HELOC, and the payments are kept the same but
> all sent to pay off the mortgage+HELOC. But who needs special software
> for that?
Indeed. Back in July (and earlier in this thread) I wrote about a
friend I talked out of buying this software. I offered to write the
software for him for $2000 (remember that MMA costs $3500). He didn't
take me up on it. I lowered my price to $1500, then $1000, then I told
him I would do it for free, if he just wouldn't buy MMA. By then he had
gotten the point.
Elle
> Back in July (and earlier in this thread) I wrote about a
> friend I talked out of buying this software. I offered to
> write the software for him for $2000 (remember that MMA
> costs $3500). He didn't take me up on it. I lowered my
> price to $1500, then $1000, then I told him I would do it
> for free, if he just wouldn't buy MMA. By then he had
> gotten the point.
Now that's effective persuasion. Well done.
But to be complete I guess one has to be a bit rude and ask:
Is your friend paying extra on his mortgage at this point,
so as to reduce his principal more quickly?
Will Trice
Elle wrote:
> But to be complete I guess one has to be a bit rude and ask:
> Is your friend paying extra on his mortgage at this point,
> so as to reduce his principal more quickly?
Just shot him an email. He's decided to put the extra money toward
retirement savings rather than paying down his mortgage.