Heidelberg vs. everything else?
carru...@my-deja.com
discussion regarding Offset Printing Press investment.
Is any Heidelberg offset printing press truly superior to all other
comparable presses on the market in terms of: ease of use, reliability
and most important, registration and the quality of each printed
piece? If the answer is yes, why would a company invest in a newer
model Komori, Ryobi, Hamada, AB Dick etc... rather than a comparably
priced older model Heidelberg if in fact Heidelberg is a superior
product and more reliable?
I appreciate all your responses and request that you indicate your
position at your organization (i.e., owner/partner, pressman,
typesetter, designer, foreman, production manager.)
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
simon boden
have been brainwashed. Try getting out in to the real world. Don't look at a
700 that is dated before 1996 they had a few teething problems but now they
have addressed the few problems they had. Also take a look at KBA there
Rapida 104 runs at 15,200 s.p.h I have ran this press for some time
producing cartons for the food market. It will run well on stock up to
475micron to 525mic but will struggle a little over this caliper. Ring round
a few companies and ask if you can visit we did and still do you will be
amazed at how friendly your competitiors can be.
Regards
Simon
Print Supervisor
<carru...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7qgmh9$i...@nexus.netconcepts.com...
pho...@my-deja.com
> Is any Heidelberg offset printing press truly superior to all other
> comparable presses on the market in terms of: ease of use, reliability
> and most important, registration and the quality of each printed
> piece? If the answer is yes, why would a company invest in a newer
> model Komori, Ryobi, Hamada, AB Dick etc... rather than a comparably
> priced older model Heidelberg if in fact Heidelberg is a superior
> product and more reliable?
In a word... maybe. It depends on a few critical questions. For
instance, format. By the competitors' listed above you probably mean
1/4 size or smaller. It also depends on specific models for comparison.
Do you want unitized multi-color? Do you print coated paper? Will you
be running 4/c process? If so, what are the run lengths and layout
(list your current limitations). Do you want to expand your business
and eventually trade the machine in -or- sell it outright?
If you want efficiency and capabilities... Buy the Heidelberg
If you expect it to run at or near top speeds and produce quality
work... Buy the Heidelberg or Komori.
Whether you sell it or trade it... Buy the Heidelberg
If it is a duplicator-type price you can afford... Buy the Ryobi.
If it is a duplicator that will run some 4/c process... Buy the Ryobi.
If it is a duplicator that won't run 4/c process... Consider Ryobi or
Heidelberg.
If you plan to print 4/c process on a coated sheet continuously in
14x20 or less... Buy a GTO or SM52.
Will you perfect? It alone would make the price of a Heidelberg
justified.
I have been a pressman, production mgr. and sales associate in printing
for over 20 years. I currently run a brand new (less than a mil.
impressions) Speedmaster 74. My previous press was a Komori 26
Lithrone. I also operate a Ryobi 3302 occasionally. Past presses have
been Millers, Heidelbergs, Miehles, Solnas, Harris, Chief, Multi, AB
Dick, Itek and Hamada. This new SM 74 is without a doubt the best
overall press I've ever worked. It has all the standard automation and
it has increased our efficiency upwards of 50% already in the 3 months
since the installation of our new 6/c and 2/c perfectors. They run well
at top speed (15000iph), even in perfect. 85% of all jobs thus far ran
at 15000iph.
I hope this helps.
phorest
GS Batchelor
outstanding. Big or small, it seems that each new machine introduced can
make up for its price tag very quickly through increased productivity and
uptime. Komori, Ryobi, and Hamada offer some very good products as well, but
I don't think dependability and uptime can compare to Heidelberg. Downtime
for a repair is usually longer for the Heidelberg but frequency of repair is
a fraction of the other brands. If you are the type who always likes to (or
needs to) keep up with the latest technology, lease the less expensive Jap
presses and replace them every five years with new technology. If you can
stand to let technology get a ahead of you, then get the Heidelberg and run
the life out of it. Then rebuild it and do it again.
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<carru...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7qgmh9$i...@nexus.netconcepts.com...
> I have a fundamental question and would like to stimulate an online
> discussion regarding Offset Printing Press investment.
>
> Is any Heidelberg offset printing press truly superior to all other
> comparable presses ...
CaptA
industry. The new CREO and DI systems have allowed them to leap frog some of
the technology today. I use to think that KOMORI and others had them beat;
however, that is not the case any longer, even their new PrintMaster 2 color is
nice press for the money. I know it beats the Ryobi 3302 hands down.
There can be only one. The First - The Last - The Word
Wouter Vannisselroy
> I have a fundamental question and would like to stimulate an online
> discussion regarding Offset Printing Press investment.
This is my favorit topic as a pressman.
I have worked as a printer with Heidelberg GTO, MO, Sorm, Sors, Sorsz and SM 72
SM 102 up to 5 color units, so I guess i kind of grew up with Heidelberg
machinery, and yes it' s great, reliable equipment.
A few years ago our company was facing this issue as well so we had to make
tests with Heidelberg, komori and roland.
We had problems with our 4 color work, when printing the back side we had
to wait to long and always face scratcing problems.
To make a long story short the company decided to break our 122 year old
tradition working with heidelberg. The Roland 700 that we started using
beated on most things the SM 102:
Stable and fast registering (at al speeds 5000 or 15000) your lithos wont
change a micron. This is known with the SM that if you start running at
7500 and you speed it up to 11000 you have to adjust the platesettings to
maintaine the registering, even autoregister did not solve the problem.
The hole sheetfeeding of mabeg is just SUPER GREAT it simply just swallows
everything!!! (no scratching)
Standard with double impressioncilinders and no superblue (SM only at CD
version $$$$)
PECOM concept that is very reliable and easy to use
You can prepare the next order while you are still running and use repeat
orders to have all your settings like paperlength, thickness etc. and
offcourse inking information, which will be very reliable because it is not
using foly as with heidelberg.
CCI measuring is not as good as Heidelbergs CPC 21 spectral but CCI works
great as well using density measuring.
The hole construction of the inking and dampening is very complex and full
with tricks and special functions, but yet so simple to adjust the
construction settings as a pressman.
And since we work with R700 when we print like 100% cyan, 70% magenta and
30% black we just don't have anoying stripes, I mean the images are calm
and stable so you don't have to be a real crack to produce fast, reliable
and with high quality. Although it helps if you are but we cannot all be
Romario.
The whole transport system wit air channels and the delivery system is it's
time way ahead, it makes it possible for us with our 710 to print 5/5
productions with subleme quality at 11000 an hour, so infact we do it at
22000
Only we had some problems with the delivery system, but it is solved now
and we are beating the odds.
OK heidelberg prints sharper in 40% =5 a 7%
and with roland in 40% =8 a 10%
But our prepress is in own hands so we produce our lithography for use on R700
We use one 710 and two 704 machines, we still have an older SM102 4/0
and ten years ago we had 7 Speedmasters 102 4/0, 4 Sorsz 102 and 2 Sors 102
They are all gone now but we have increased the productivity and maintained
our known quality.
I personally think that Heidelberg is the best at GTO, MO, SM-52
but when you are in the 70/102 cm there's just one top leader ROLAND 700!
Regards,
Wouter Vannisselroy
pressman at Van Soest Amsterdam, The Netherlands