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[Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
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Leroy N. Soetoro
Oct 16, 2023, 5:18:55 PM10/16/23
to
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/aug/28/phoenix-microchip-plant-
biden-union-tsmc
Posed in front of an American flag and a large banner reading “A Future
Made in America Phoenix, AZ,” Joe Biden told a crowd of assembled workers,
supporters and media last December: “American manufacturing is back,
folks.”
Eight months on, the Phoenix microchip plant – the centerpiece of Biden’s
$52.7bn US hi-tech manufacturing agenda – is struggling to get online.
The plant’s owner Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), the
largest chip maker in the world, has pushed back plans to start
manufacturing to 2025, blaming a lack of skilled labor. It is trying to
fast-track visas for 500 Taiwanese workers. Unions, meanwhile, are
accusing TSMC of inventing the skills shortage as an excuse to hire
cheaper, foreign labor. Others point to safety issues at the plant.
The success of the plant – in a crucial swing state – is likely to get
even more scrutiny as Biden prepares for the 2024 election cycle and US
tensions with China over technology, and Taiwan, escalate.
Biden signed the Chips and Science Act, which includes $52.7bn in loans,
grants and other incentives, and billions more in tax credits for
manufacturers to produce the chips in the US, in August 2022.
The Arizona project is the flagship in the president’s efforts to tout the
law’s effects and TSMC’s promised $40bn investment in US chip production
plant is one of the largest foreign investments in US history and the
largest ever in Arizona.
The stakes could not be higher. Semiconductor chips are the essential
components of computers, smartphones and other electronic devices, and the
coronavirus pandemic exposed how vulnerable the US had become to imported
chips. About 12% of semiconductor chips are made in the US, down from 37%
in 1990. Boosting US production will add thousands of jobs as well as
securing US supplies at a time of worsening relations with China, whose
rapidly growing industry accounts for about 9% of global semiconductor
sales.
The Phoenix semiconductor manufacturing facility, or “fab”, is a huge
undertaking, encompassing a 1,000-acre area north of Phoenix, set to
include two fab facilities. Construction is expected to generate 21,000
construction jobs, with the workforce at the facilities estimated at about
4,500, and thousands of additional jobs at suppliers in the area.
But the construction of the plant has been hampered by accidents and
misunderstandings, according to insiders who spoke to the Guardian.
A former supervisor at the site explained all contractors at the site
operate under the management of two companies affiliated with TSMC, United
Integrated Services (UIS) and Marketech International Corp, and blamed
delays on disorganization from management and a lack of knowledge by
bosses from Taiwan on adhering to safety codes and regulations in the US.
If you disagreed, they threatened “to take work from you and give it to
somebody else”, they said. They requested to remain anonymous for fear of
retaliation from their general contractor employer. “Then the non-union
contractors couldn’t get enough guys out there who were skilled enough.”
They said when they started working at the site, all workers went through
a safety training program, but out in the field, they never saw the people
who ran that program or safety protocols enforced.
“There were multiple general contractors all in the same little areas, all
of them saying different things. Nobody ever coordinated anything;
everybody was always in each other’s way, people were storing material
everywhere, and it was constantly holding up little projects,” they said.
They explained the main contractors would give them a priority task to
complete, but that it would change daily, or they would completely change
their mind, making it impossible to complete tasks and add to delays.
“When you have to put stuff up, tear it down, put it up, tear it down,
literally five or six times, that’s going to cost five or six times the
original quote, probably more because you have to get demolitions
involved,” the worker said. “This was constantly the whole process.
Everything was rushed. They weren’t giving us actual blueprints, just
engineer drawings. It felt like a design-as-we-go type of deal. The
information we were getting was really strange, never complete, and always
changing. We would get updates constantly and these were big updates to
the point where we would have to start pulling things down.”
The worker also criticized frequent evacuations of the job site that
occurred mostly due to false alarms and other communication issues that
delayed work. They described long traffic lines and wait times to travel
in and out of the job site that worsened whenever it rained because of the
mud and said the constant turnover of contractors for different job tasks
made it even more hectic.
They also noted that portable toilets were too few and were never properly
cleaned or stocked with toilet paper and soap, probably resulting in
workers getting sick. The worker said instead of calling 911 for safety
emergencies, workers were directed to call an internal safety hotline, but
that those medical services always took a long time to respond.
“I’ve never been on a job site like this. A job site this big with this
many people, you have to be super safe, everything kind of has to slow
down because you’re always in somebody’s way, so you have to have a
perfect plan if you want to pull this off,” they concluded. “I think they
need to get those Taiwan contractors out of there because they are not
used to building in America at all. They’re hiring us as professionals to
give them a quality installation and advice and direction on how to
install things, but they would not listen to us at all.”
Workers and local unions have disputed TSMC’s characterization of the
workforce and reasons for the delays. The Arizona Pipe Trades 469 is
currently petitioning against TSMC’s application for 500 visas for workers
from Taiwan to build the facilities.
A TSMC spokesperson characterized these new visa applications as part of a
new phase of construction in the project to install process equipment.
“To ensure this critical phase of tool installation goes smoothly and
successfully, it is a very common practice in the semiconductor industry
to have a very limited number of experienced specialists from different
overseas locations onsite to assist with important steps in the process.
These experienced individuals have deep familiarity with our supplier
equipment and will partner with our strong local workforce during this
phase,” said the spokesperson in an email.
In an op-ed, Aaron Butler, president of the Arizona Building and
Construction Trades Council, criticized TSMC’s announcement as an attempt
to endanger American jobs and disputed claims from TSMC that the US
workforce lacks the experience and skills required to complete
construction.
“Blaming American workers for problems with this project is as offensive
to American workers as it is inaccurate,” Butler wrote. “TSMC is blaming
its construction delays on American workers and using that as an excuse to
bring in foreign workers who they can pay less.”
In June, the American Prospect reported the site had been dogged by
mistakes, injuries, safety issues. TSMC has refused to sign a project
labor agreement with local labor unions, leaving the majority of the
workforce to non-union contractors, and unions have reported an influx of
Taiwanese workers at the job site in lieu of union-backed positions after
incentive wages were cut for electricians at the site.
Another former worker at the site in 2022 who requested to remain
anonymous for fear of retaliation from their contractor employer, told the
Guardian they experienced numerous issues working on the site, from not
being paid for hours worked to health issues from chemical exposure on the
site.
“The guys were spraying fireproof chemicals on the I-beams. It didn’t
matter if you were having lunch, they’d just spray right above you.
Everyone out there had the same cough. I’m sure it was because of that. I
left the job and my cough cleared up a month later,” the worker said.
TSMC did not respond to specific safety complaints and issues, but a
spokesperson said in an email, “TSMC is deeply committed to workplace
safety in the operation of all our facilities, along with each of our
active construction projects, including TSMC Arizona. We are regularly
audited against known safety standards by organizations such as Arizona
Department of Safety and Health (ADOSH). TSMC also conducts its own
internal audits of safety records against state and national figures.
“In Arizona, our recordable safety incident rate is nearly 80% lower than
nationally reported figures, and our lost-time incident rate is almost 96%
lower.”
TSMC’s only other US fab, located in Camas, Washington, experienced
similar issues in its construction and development. It first opened in
1998, but plans to build additional factories at the Wafertech site never
panned out.
In a 2022 interview, TSMC’s founder, Morris Chang, said the facility
struggled to find enough staff and that costs exceeded expectations and
told the then House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, during a visit to Taiwan the
same year that US efforts to rebuild chip manufacturing domestically were
“doomed to fail”. In 2013, the IBEW union attempted to organize
electricians at the site but were met with staunch anti-union resistance
from the company.
A former Wafertech employee who requested to remain anonymous due to
signing a non-disclosure agreement told the Guardian that Wafertech told
American employees during an all-staff meeting that they were all lazy.
(In July 2023, a popular Taiwanese YouTube channel accused the Arizona
workers on the TSMC site of being lazy.)
“We were in shock and angry. The man that told us we were lazy during the
all-employee meeting was the president of Wafertech at the time, Steve
Tso,” they said. “Anyone in the hi-tech world understands how tightly
these processes are run. Nothing is done without a procedure in place. To
say that there are no Americans to do this part of the job is nonsense.”
A local representative for Wafertech did not comment directly on the
remarks from Chang or the former employee but said in an email that
WaferTech had been a successful member in the TSMC family over the past 20
years. “Internal employee meeting communications are confidential, but my
recollection from those early days is that all of us were asked to give
100% effort to help Wafertech succeed.”
One of the former TSMC workers concluded that workers were being buffeted
by the political drama between the US and China. TSMC is economically
vital to Taiwan, which has faced increasing diplomatic and military
pressure from China as the company is expanding its global production with
historic investments in the US.
“A lot of us feel TSMC is only dealing with the union and trying a little
bit at all because they want that Chips Act money, they’re chasing it,”
they added. “The US is just worried about getting their microchips because
of all the drama with China and we’re kind of dragged into it.”
--
We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.
Durham Report: The FBI has an integrity problem. It has none.
No collusion - Special Counsel Robert Swan Mueller III, March 2019.
Officially made Nancy Pelosi a two-time impeachment loser.
Thank you for cleaning up the disaster of the 2008-2017 Obama / Biden
fiasco, President Trump.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp. Obama sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood
queer liberal democrat donors.
President Trump boosted the economy, reduced illegal invasions, appointed
dozens of judges and three SCOTUS justices.
biden-union-tsmc
Posed in front of an American flag and a large banner reading “A Future
Made in America Phoenix, AZ,” Joe Biden told a crowd of assembled workers,
supporters and media last December: “American manufacturing is back,
folks.”
Eight months on, the Phoenix microchip plant – the centerpiece of Biden’s
$52.7bn US hi-tech manufacturing agenda – is struggling to get online.
The plant’s owner Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), the
largest chip maker in the world, has pushed back plans to start
manufacturing to 2025, blaming a lack of skilled labor. It is trying to
fast-track visas for 500 Taiwanese workers. Unions, meanwhile, are
accusing TSMC of inventing the skills shortage as an excuse to hire
cheaper, foreign labor. Others point to safety issues at the plant.
The success of the plant – in a crucial swing state – is likely to get
even more scrutiny as Biden prepares for the 2024 election cycle and US
tensions with China over technology, and Taiwan, escalate.
Biden signed the Chips and Science Act, which includes $52.7bn in loans,
grants and other incentives, and billions more in tax credits for
manufacturers to produce the chips in the US, in August 2022.
The Arizona project is the flagship in the president’s efforts to tout the
law’s effects and TSMC’s promised $40bn investment in US chip production
plant is one of the largest foreign investments in US history and the
largest ever in Arizona.
The stakes could not be higher. Semiconductor chips are the essential
components of computers, smartphones and other electronic devices, and the
coronavirus pandemic exposed how vulnerable the US had become to imported
chips. About 12% of semiconductor chips are made in the US, down from 37%
in 1990. Boosting US production will add thousands of jobs as well as
securing US supplies at a time of worsening relations with China, whose
rapidly growing industry accounts for about 9% of global semiconductor
sales.
The Phoenix semiconductor manufacturing facility, or “fab”, is a huge
undertaking, encompassing a 1,000-acre area north of Phoenix, set to
include two fab facilities. Construction is expected to generate 21,000
construction jobs, with the workforce at the facilities estimated at about
4,500, and thousands of additional jobs at suppliers in the area.
But the construction of the plant has been hampered by accidents and
misunderstandings, according to insiders who spoke to the Guardian.
A former supervisor at the site explained all contractors at the site
operate under the management of two companies affiliated with TSMC, United
Integrated Services (UIS) and Marketech International Corp, and blamed
delays on disorganization from management and a lack of knowledge by
bosses from Taiwan on adhering to safety codes and regulations in the US.
If you disagreed, they threatened “to take work from you and give it to
somebody else”, they said. They requested to remain anonymous for fear of
retaliation from their general contractor employer. “Then the non-union
contractors couldn’t get enough guys out there who were skilled enough.”
They said when they started working at the site, all workers went through
a safety training program, but out in the field, they never saw the people
who ran that program or safety protocols enforced.
“There were multiple general contractors all in the same little areas, all
of them saying different things. Nobody ever coordinated anything;
everybody was always in each other’s way, people were storing material
everywhere, and it was constantly holding up little projects,” they said.
They explained the main contractors would give them a priority task to
complete, but that it would change daily, or they would completely change
their mind, making it impossible to complete tasks and add to delays.
“When you have to put stuff up, tear it down, put it up, tear it down,
literally five or six times, that’s going to cost five or six times the
original quote, probably more because you have to get demolitions
involved,” the worker said. “This was constantly the whole process.
Everything was rushed. They weren’t giving us actual blueprints, just
engineer drawings. It felt like a design-as-we-go type of deal. The
information we were getting was really strange, never complete, and always
changing. We would get updates constantly and these were big updates to
the point where we would have to start pulling things down.”
The worker also criticized frequent evacuations of the job site that
occurred mostly due to false alarms and other communication issues that
delayed work. They described long traffic lines and wait times to travel
in and out of the job site that worsened whenever it rained because of the
mud and said the constant turnover of contractors for different job tasks
made it even more hectic.
They also noted that portable toilets were too few and were never properly
cleaned or stocked with toilet paper and soap, probably resulting in
workers getting sick. The worker said instead of calling 911 for safety
emergencies, workers were directed to call an internal safety hotline, but
that those medical services always took a long time to respond.
“I’ve never been on a job site like this. A job site this big with this
many people, you have to be super safe, everything kind of has to slow
down because you’re always in somebody’s way, so you have to have a
perfect plan if you want to pull this off,” they concluded. “I think they
need to get those Taiwan contractors out of there because they are not
used to building in America at all. They’re hiring us as professionals to
give them a quality installation and advice and direction on how to
install things, but they would not listen to us at all.”
Workers and local unions have disputed TSMC’s characterization of the
workforce and reasons for the delays. The Arizona Pipe Trades 469 is
currently petitioning against TSMC’s application for 500 visas for workers
from Taiwan to build the facilities.
A TSMC spokesperson characterized these new visa applications as part of a
new phase of construction in the project to install process equipment.
“To ensure this critical phase of tool installation goes smoothly and
successfully, it is a very common practice in the semiconductor industry
to have a very limited number of experienced specialists from different
overseas locations onsite to assist with important steps in the process.
These experienced individuals have deep familiarity with our supplier
equipment and will partner with our strong local workforce during this
phase,” said the spokesperson in an email.
In an op-ed, Aaron Butler, president of the Arizona Building and
Construction Trades Council, criticized TSMC’s announcement as an attempt
to endanger American jobs and disputed claims from TSMC that the US
workforce lacks the experience and skills required to complete
construction.
“Blaming American workers for problems with this project is as offensive
to American workers as it is inaccurate,” Butler wrote. “TSMC is blaming
its construction delays on American workers and using that as an excuse to
bring in foreign workers who they can pay less.”
In June, the American Prospect reported the site had been dogged by
mistakes, injuries, safety issues. TSMC has refused to sign a project
labor agreement with local labor unions, leaving the majority of the
workforce to non-union contractors, and unions have reported an influx of
Taiwanese workers at the job site in lieu of union-backed positions after
incentive wages were cut for electricians at the site.
Another former worker at the site in 2022 who requested to remain
anonymous for fear of retaliation from their contractor employer, told the
Guardian they experienced numerous issues working on the site, from not
being paid for hours worked to health issues from chemical exposure on the
site.
“The guys were spraying fireproof chemicals on the I-beams. It didn’t
matter if you were having lunch, they’d just spray right above you.
Everyone out there had the same cough. I’m sure it was because of that. I
left the job and my cough cleared up a month later,” the worker said.
TSMC did not respond to specific safety complaints and issues, but a
spokesperson said in an email, “TSMC is deeply committed to workplace
safety in the operation of all our facilities, along with each of our
active construction projects, including TSMC Arizona. We are regularly
audited against known safety standards by organizations such as Arizona
Department of Safety and Health (ADOSH). TSMC also conducts its own
internal audits of safety records against state and national figures.
“In Arizona, our recordable safety incident rate is nearly 80% lower than
nationally reported figures, and our lost-time incident rate is almost 96%
lower.”
TSMC’s only other US fab, located in Camas, Washington, experienced
similar issues in its construction and development. It first opened in
1998, but plans to build additional factories at the Wafertech site never
panned out.
In a 2022 interview, TSMC’s founder, Morris Chang, said the facility
struggled to find enough staff and that costs exceeded expectations and
told the then House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, during a visit to Taiwan the
same year that US efforts to rebuild chip manufacturing domestically were
“doomed to fail”. In 2013, the IBEW union attempted to organize
electricians at the site but were met with staunch anti-union resistance
from the company.
A former Wafertech employee who requested to remain anonymous due to
signing a non-disclosure agreement told the Guardian that Wafertech told
American employees during an all-staff meeting that they were all lazy.
(In July 2023, a popular Taiwanese YouTube channel accused the Arizona
workers on the TSMC site of being lazy.)
“We were in shock and angry. The man that told us we were lazy during the
all-employee meeting was the president of Wafertech at the time, Steve
Tso,” they said. “Anyone in the hi-tech world understands how tightly
these processes are run. Nothing is done without a procedure in place. To
say that there are no Americans to do this part of the job is nonsense.”
A local representative for Wafertech did not comment directly on the
remarks from Chang or the former employee but said in an email that
WaferTech had been a successful member in the TSMC family over the past 20
years. “Internal employee meeting communications are confidential, but my
recollection from those early days is that all of us were asked to give
100% effort to help Wafertech succeed.”
One of the former TSMC workers concluded that workers were being buffeted
by the political drama between the US and China. TSMC is economically
vital to Taiwan, which has faced increasing diplomatic and military
pressure from China as the company is expanding its global production with
historic investments in the US.
“A lot of us feel TSMC is only dealing with the union and trying a little
bit at all because they want that Chips Act money, they’re chasing it,”
they added. “The US is just worried about getting their microchips because
of all the drama with China and we’re kind of dragged into it.”
--
We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.
Durham Report: The FBI has an integrity problem. It has none.
No collusion - Special Counsel Robert Swan Mueller III, March 2019.
Officially made Nancy Pelosi a two-time impeachment loser.
Thank you for cleaning up the disaster of the 2008-2017 Obama / Biden
fiasco, President Trump.
Under Barack Obama's leadership, the United States of America became the
The World According To Garp. Obama sold out heterosexuals for Hollywood
queer liberal democrat donors.
President Trump boosted the economy, reduced illegal invasions, appointed
dozens of judges and three SCOTUS justices.
a a
Oct 16, 2023, 6:37:17 PM10/16/23
to
The idiot "Leroy N. Soetoro" <democrat-...@mail.house.gov> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...
--
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <democrat-...@mail.house.gov> wrote:
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: "Leroy N. Soetoro" <democrat-...@mail.house.gov>
> Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics
> Subject: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:18:54 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: The next war will be fought against Socialists, in America and the EU.
> Message-ID: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1>
> Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:18:54 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="c4af4a3027e8317d29ea238d8aa6bb2f616aa3fc";
> logging-data="1432690"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@mixmin.net"
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--
"Leroy N. Soetoro" <democrat-...@mail.house.gov> wrote:
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> Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics
> Subject: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:18:54 -0000 (UTC)
> Organization: The next war will be fought against Socialists, in America and the EU.
> Message-ID: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1>
> Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 21:18:54 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-host="c4af4a3027e8317d29ea238d8aa6bb2f616aa3fc";
> logging-data="1432690"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@mixmin.net"
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Joe
Oct 16, 2023, 8:30:03 PM10/16/23
to
In article <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com>
a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
Whiner.
Path: not-for-mail
From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-
unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.mar
ketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
Subject: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They
References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1>
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a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
Whiner.
Path: not-for-mail
From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
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unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.mar
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Subject: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They
would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
Followup-To: alt.test.group
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a a
Oct 16, 2023, 10:14:00 PM10/16/23
to
The idiot Joe <drjoes...@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...
--
Joe <drjoes...@gmail.com> wrote:
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> Subject: Re: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1> <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com>
> Injection-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 00:30:01 +0000 (UTC)
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> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 20:27:40 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Received-Bytes: 4351
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Joe <drjoes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Message-ID: <2023101700274...@tidalhost.archiade.net>
> From: Joe <drjoes...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
> Path: not-for-mail
> Comments: This message was transferred to Usenet via mail2news gateway at <mail...@neodome.net>. Please send questions and concerns to <ad...@neodome.net>. Report inappropriate use to <ab...@neodome.net>.
> Subject: Re: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1> <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com>
> Injection-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 00:30:01 +0000 (UTC)
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> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 20:27:40 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Received-Bytes: 4351
a a
Oct 16, 2023, 10:14:06 PM10/16/23
to
The absolute arsehole "Darius the Dumb" persisting in being an Off-topic troll...
--
--
a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
> Subject: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> Followup-To: alt.test.group
> References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1>
> Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 18:37:14 -0000 (UTC)
> Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="aefae07b417003b570527823e77a9930";
> Path: not-for-mail
> From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
> Subject: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: [Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's troubled chip plant
> Followup-To: alt.test.group
> References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1>
> Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 18:37:14 -0000 (UTC)
> logging-data="29200"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18QBXYPJWay5G0R7zD10mjY5gUD5xOvt6I="
> User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
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> X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:37:14 UTC
> Bytes: 1912
> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:37:14 GMT
> X-Received-Bytes: 1964
> User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
> Lines: 18
> Message-ID: <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com>
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> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:37:14 UTC
> Bytes: 1912
> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:37:14 GMT
Joe
Oct 16, 2023, 11:20:03 PM10/16/23
to
In article <F5mXM.229233$VAg....@usenetxs.com>
References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1> <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com> <2023101700274...@tidalhost.archiade.net>
Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:13:57 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <F5mXM.229233$VAg....@usenetxs.com>
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 02:13:57 UTC
Bytes: 4197
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 02:13:57 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 4386
Whining noted.
a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
Path: not-for-mail
From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-
unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.mar
ketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
Subject: Off Topic Troll Alert! was: Re: Off Topic Troll Alert! was:
Path: not-for-mail
From: a a <mant...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: az.politics,alt.business,alt.society.labor-
unions,talk.politics.guns,misc.industry.electronics.mar
ketplace,sci.electronics.design,sac.politics,free.spam
[Biden/Union screwups...] 'They would not listen to us': inside Arizona's
troubled chip plant
Followup-To: alt.test.group <<-- LOL!
troubled chip plant
References: <lnsB09F919F6D...@0.0.0.1> <uWiXM.228826$VAg.2...@usenetxs.com> <2023101700274...@tidalhost.archiade.net>
Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2023 22:13:57 -0000 (UTC)
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User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
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X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 02:13:57 UTC
Bytes: 4197
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 02:13:57 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 4386
Whining noted.
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