Dual Citizenship & Passports

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MH

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Oct 30, 2001, 12:21:09 AM10/30/01
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I'm a Canadian living in the US. If I get dual citizenship, I understand
the INS would want me to travel with my US passport. Does anyone know just
how strict they are about this? I'd prefer to travel with my Cdn passport
(for obvious reasons).


Rob Taylor

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Oct 30, 2001, 1:43:11 AM10/30/01
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How would the US know if you showed your CDN passport somewhere in the
world? They wouldn't. And as for getting back in the country last time I
checked you could still at least get in the US to visit without a US
passport. Even when I do get my US citizenship, I'll NEVER give up my
Canadian passport. And I'll never travel with a US passport.

"MH" <mhr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9NqD7.6142$Ap7.230...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

MH

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Oct 30, 2001, 12:55:40 AM10/30/01
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> How would the US know if you showed your CDN passport somewhere in the
> world? They wouldn't.

Actually, when I've visited various countries, I would get my passport
stamped. Upon returning home, I'd be asked where I was, how long I was
gone, etc, and they'd look at my passport.

"Rob Taylor" <fireb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m5rD7.431$C32.7...@news.uswest.net...

Shelley

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Oct 30, 2001, 3:17:19 AM10/30/01
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As long as you have your US passport when you reenter the US - because as a
citizen you are required by law to say you are a US citizen when you enter
the US, you should be able to travel with you Canadian passport.
My husband is Canadian. If/When he becomes a US citizen he would have to
carry two passports to travel home, because he would have to show his CDN
passport to enter Canada and his US passport to enter the US.
Take Care. Shelley

"MH" <mhr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:9NqD7.6142$Ap7.230...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

Mark Carroll

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Oct 30, 2001, 10:27:48 AM10/30/01
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In article <m5rD7.431$C32.7...@news.uswest.net>,

Rob Taylor <fireb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>How would the US know if you showed your CDN passport somewhere in the
>world? They wouldn't. And as for getting back in the country last time I
>checked you could still at least get in the US to visit without a US
>passport. Even when I do get my US citizenship, I'll NEVER give up my
>Canadian passport. And I'll never travel with a US passport.
(snip)

I don't think I'd do it: in the United States Code, Title 8, Chapter
12, Subchapter II, Part II, section 1185 (b), it says, "it shall be
unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter,
or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears
a valid United States passport". So, I generally suggest to US
citizens that they have a US passport for entering the US. It's up to
you, though.

-- Mark

Stuart

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Oct 30, 2001, 12:02:17 PM10/30/01
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"Shelley" <ksfr...@uniontel.net> wrote:

> As long as you have your US passport when you reenter the US - because
> as a citizen you are required by law to say you are a US citizen when
> you enter the US, you should be able to travel with you Canadian
> passport. My husband is Canadian. If/When he becomes a US citizen he
> would have to carry two passports to travel home, because he would have
> to show his CDN passport to enter Canada and his US passport to enter
> the US. Take Care. Shelley

He COULD enter Canada on his US passport ...

The requirement to enter the US on a US passport stems from the fact that
dual citizenship is only "tolerated" under US law ... it doesn't actually
permit dual citizenship. It makes the assumption for a naturalized citizen
that when you renounce all other allegiances in the citizenship ceremony
that you are actually renouncing all other citizenships. In recent years
they have finally come to realize that they cannot, with that clause alone,
force the revocation of other citizenships ... They cannot control who
other countries consider their citizens. There are many countries in the
world where you simply cannot renounce citizenship.

If there is any question as to your citizenship, you can be certain that
the use of any passport other than a US one to travel, will result in
intense scrutiny. There was an Olympian a few years back who traveled on
his original country's passport to the Olympics instead of his US passport.
His citizenship was put up for review and his ability to compete for the
USA was challenged by the Americans themselves.

Canada makes no such requirements.

Stuart

Shelley

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Oct 30, 2001, 5:43:43 PM10/30/01
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"Stuart" <stuart....@spammenot.attcanada.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns914A7A74ABCEs...@207.181.101.12...

> He COULD enter Canada on his US passport ...
<snip>

I realize he could enter Canada on a US passport - but although Canada
doesn't require him declare he is a citizen as the US does, they prefer that
citizens identify themselves when entering the country. Also, if he entered
on his US passport, he would subject to the same restrictions as any US
tourist, instead of those as a Canadian citizen.
So far this has been a non-issue for us, as he is only a PR. But our
daughter is a dual citizen, and as soon as we obtain her citizenship card we
will be dealing with this everytime we cross the border.
As far as the original poster goes, the US doesn't care what passport you
travel on, as long as you enter the US with your US passport, and you cannot
travel to any country that US citizens are forbidden to travel to (i.e.
Cuba)
Take Care. Shelley


Stephen Gallagher

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Oct 30, 2001, 10:16:56 PM10/30/01
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You would only need to use your US passport
when entering and exiting the United States
(yes, I know that there is no formal exit
immigration procedures when leaving the US,
but you are still supposed to have your US
passport in your possession, if you are a
US citizen.)

Using your passport when outside the US poses
no real problem. I am a dual citizen. When
entering the US I have freely admitted to
the INS inspectors that I am also a Canadian
citizen (when asked) and that I also have a
Canadian passport. As long as I identify
myself to US inspectors as a US citizen
and show them my US passport, they've never
had any trouble with the fact that I've
travelled on my Canadian passport.

Stephen Gallagher

Stephen Gallagher

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Oct 30, 2001, 10:20:56 PM10/30/01
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"MH" <mhr...@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<whrD7.6181$NO2.231...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...

> > How would the US know if you showed your CDN passport somewhere in the
> > world? They wouldn't.
>
> Actually, when I've visited various countries, I would get my passport
> stamped. Upon returning home, I'd be asked where I was, how long I was
> gone, etc, and they'd look at my passport.

But not every country actually stamps a passport.
Mexico did not stamp my passport when I visited,
nor did bermuda. They gave me an immigration
slip that I had to turn in when I left the country.

And I don't recall an INS officer ever looking
through my passport for the stamps of the
countries that I had visited.

Even if they did, you could simply say that
you were also a Canadian citizen and that
you travelled on your Canadian passport.

Stephen

Stephen Gallagher

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Oct 30, 2001, 10:30:09 PM10/30/01
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> > As long as you have your US passport when you reenter the US - because
> > as a citizen you are required by law to say you are a US citizen when
> > you enter the US, you should be able to travel with you Canadian
> > passport. My husband is Canadian. If/When he becomes a US citizen he
> > would have to carry two passports to travel home, because he would have
> > to show his CDN passport to enter Canada and his US passport to enter
> > the US. Take Care. Shelley
>
> He COULD enter Canada on his US passport ...

Only if entering for a visit, or transiting.
Entering on a US passport to take up residence
or to work there, would require a Canadian passport.

>
> The requirement to enter the US on a US passport stems from the fact that
> dual citizenship is only "tolerated" under US law ... it doesn't actually
> permit dual citizenship.

If when you mean that the US doesn't actually
permit US dual citizenship you mean that there
is no law that says "US citizens are allowed
to have dual citizenship." you're correct.

But most other countries do not have such a
statement in their laws either. Dual citizenship
is allowed because there is no law that disallows
it, not because of a specific law allowing it.

There's no law in the US that specifically says
that people are allowed to build snowmen in
the backyards. That doesn't mean that building
snowmen is simply tolerated, and not permitted.

Stephen Gallagher

Gary L. Dare

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Oct 31, 2001, 1:50:36 AM10/31/01
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Stuart (stuart....@spammenot.attcanada.ca) wrote:

: If there is any question as to your citizenship, you can be certain that

: the use of any passport other than a US one to travel, will result in
: intense scrutiny. There was an Olympian a few years back who traveled on
: his original country's passport to the Olympics instead of his US passport.
: His citizenship was put up for review and his ability to compete for the
: USA was challenged by the Americans themselves.

If this was Ulf Samuelsson of the New York Rangers at Nagano,
his problem was that his Swedish passport was invalidated by
Swedish law, making him ineligible to play for Sweden and in
addition, entering Japan on an invalid passport. I heard no
news about him having problems with US authorities, as he was
not playing for the US side (the Village dorm wreckers (-;).

Marie Pierce is a triple citizen (US father, French mother,
born in Montreal where they met and married) and competes
in Tennis for France. Certainly she would have been on
the dock at some point the past ten years, based on the
above?

Lindsey Davenport and Keanu Reeves are also triples:
US, UK and Canada.

There are more than a few born and naturalized Americans
living in Canada and Europe as local citizens.

--
Gary L. Dare
g...@ripco.com

New Yorker, Once & Always

Gary L. Dare

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Oct 31, 2001, 1:55:58 AM10/31/01
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Shelley (ksfr...@uniontel.net) wrote:

: As far as the original poster goes, the US doesn't care what


: passport you travel on, as long as you enter the US with your
: US passport,

That would figure, otherwise a lot of Americans with second
citizenships (by birth, or naturalization in either direction)
would up the INS workload by a third in crackdowns. Add to the
list about 5-6 Americans who are/were recent CEO's of Canadian
companies, such as recently naturalized Robert Milton of Air
Canada. (others include Durst, Hollis Harris, etc.)

: and you cannot travel to any country that US citizens


: are forbidden to travel to (i.e. Cuba)

Yes, one of the US's non-recognition of dual citizenship
is that if you are a citizen, you are a citizen regardless
of how you get into Cuba and will be punished as such.

Gary L. Dare

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Oct 31, 2001, 2:01:06 AM10/31/01
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Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@psinet.com) wrote:

: (yes, I know that there is no formal exit


: immigration procedures when leaving the US,

Yet. )-;

That'll be another unfortunate consequence of 9/11.
Until then, countries removing outgoing customs and
immigration procedures has been used as a benchmark
of increased freedom and capitalism, applied not
only to ex-Warsaw Pact countries like Poland but
also France (eliminated four years ago) and soon
Britain ... or so was the plan. Outbound customs
became a joke in the UK and it seems to me that
a third of the forms are ripped and tossed in
the rubbish bin by the inspector ("You don't
need it, have a good day!"). I wish that they
would at least recycle ... (-;

Stuart

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Oct 31, 2001, 8:36:50 AM10/31/01
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> Dual citizenship
> is allowed because there is no law that disallows
> it, not because of a specific law allowing it.
>
> There's no law in the US that specifically says
> that people are allowed to build snowmen in
> the backyards. That doesn't mean that building
> snowmen is simply tolerated, and not permitted.

Well, for the longest time the US believed that by the renunciation of
allegiances clause in the citizenship ceremony and the Pledge of Allegiance
for all citizens, that it did not permit dual citizenship. There are still
those in power who believe that these pledges prohibit dual citizenship,
but understand that a person may be a citizen of another country for
reasons outside their power. It is in this sense that dual citizenship is
tolerated. It would only require a directive of the INS and State Dept to
actually decide that dual citizenship was not permissible, not a new law.

Stuart

Stuart

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Oct 31, 2001, 8:41:23 AM10/31/01
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> If this was Ulf Samuelsson of the New York Rangers at Nagano,
> his problem was that his Swedish passport was invalidated by
> Swedish law, making him ineligible to play for Sweden and in
> addition, entering Japan on an invalid passport. I heard no
> news about him having problems with US authorities, as he was
> not playing for the US side (the Village dorm wreckers (-;).

No, it wasn't.

> Marie Pierce is a triple citizen (US father, French mother,
> born in Montreal where they met and married) and competes
> in Tennis for France. Certainly she would have been on
> the dock at some point the past ten years, based on the
> above?

No ... she was not representing the USA. The problem is when they
represent the USA abroad, they are expected to travel as US Citizens which
means presenting US travel documents (i.e. passport) There was a multi-
national who went abroad as a part of a US trade delegation who got into
trouble for travelling on a non-US passport. It's not the having other
citizenships that's the problem ... it's using them when you are supposedly
representing the USA.

Stuart

Rich Wales

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Oct 31, 2001, 8:22:15 PM10/31/01
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Gary Dare wrote:

> Yes, one of the US's non-recognition of dual citizenship
> is that if you are a citizen, you are a citizen regardless
> of how you get into Cuba and will be punished as such.

In other words, a dual US/other citizen is the same, under US law,
as someone who is a citizen only of the US.

If you're a US citizen, the fact that you may also be claimed as a
citizen by some other country doesn't affect your US status at all.

Most countries, actually, take a similar position with regard to
their citizens; even if a country's laws permit multiple citizen-
ship, the other citizenships don't make any difference. Thus, for
example, a dual US/Canadian citizen is just a "US citizen" as far
as the US is concerned, and just a "Canadian citizen" as far as
Canada is concerned.

This is one reason why it's not too helpful to talk about whether
the US (or any other country) "recognizes" dual citizenship. The
word can mean too many different things and leads to confusion.

Rich Wales ri...@webcom.com http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/
*DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, professional immigration consultant,
or consular officer. My comments are for discussion purposes only and
are not intended to be relied upon as legal or professional advice.

Stuart

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Oct 31, 2001, 8:58:41 PM10/31/01
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> This is one reason why it's not too helpful to talk about whether
> the US (or any other country) "recognizes" dual citizenship. The
> word can mean too many different things and leads to confusion.

I am a UK citizen by birth, and moved to Canada and became a Canadian, and
later moved back the UK (and later back to Canada but that's a different
matter) At this point, I didn't realize that I was still a UK citizen, so
ended up refused a job that required UK citizens only. I didn't realize
that I had actually remained a UK citizen! Someone told me I was probably
still a UK citizen, so I got some paper work from the Foreign and
Commonwealth office that said "your taking another citizenship did not
cause you to forfeit your UK citizenship unless you renounced it in front
of an authorized officer of the Crown" and a letter from the Canadian High
Commission which stated that "taking Canadian citizenship did not require
the renunciation of your UK citizenship".

When I talked to both offices they both said in effect "We do not recognize
dual citizenship, although we do understand and accept that an individual
can be a citizen of more than one country. The reason we do not recognize
the concept of dual citizenship is that we cannot on any one day determine
that you are a citizen of another country - we can only affirm that you are
a citizen of <Canada/UK>"

In other words, dual citizenship is a quality recognized by the person who
holds dual citizenship, but not by the countries of which he is a citizen!

Stuart

Rich Wales

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Oct 31, 2001, 8:58:32 PM10/31/01
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"Stuart" wrote:

> Well, for the longest time the US believed that by the
> renunciation of allegiances clause in the citizenship
> ceremony and the Pledge of Allegiance for all citizens,
> that it did not permit dual citizenship.

The Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag) does not contain any renun-
ciatory clause.

> It would only require a directive of the INS and State

> Dept. to actually decide that dual citizenship was not


> permissible, not a new law.

I would have to disagree.

First, the US's tolerance of dual citizenship is based on rulings
by the Supreme Court which struck down laws decreeing loss of US
citizenship after foreign naturalization, as well as changes to
these laws by Congress designed to bring the laws into compliance
with said Supreme Court rulings.

The only remnant of the old dual citizenship prohibitions in
current US law is the renunciatory clause in the naturalization
oath. The Supreme Court rulings affecting dual citizenship did
not address the requirements for naturalization, so Congress was
not forced to delete the renunciatory clause, and it hasn't.

Again, the renunciatory clause affects only adults seeking natur-
alization as US citizens. It doesn't affect young children who
become citizens along with their parents; people born with both
US and another citizenship; or US citizens who become naturalized
citizens of other countries.

Even considering only naturalized adult US citizens (who had to
take the renunciatory oath), there are three different subcases:

(1) A person whose old citizenship is automatically revoked (under
the other country's laws) after US naturalization.

(2) A person whose old country ignores the US naturalization pro-
cess and still considers the person's old citizenship to be
fully in effect -- but which provides a relatively simple way
for the person to have his old citizenship officially revoked.
(Note, though, that US law does =not= say anything about a new
US citizen having to go through any such procedure.)

(3) A person whose old country ignores the US naturalization pro-
cess and still considers the person's old citizenship to be
fully in effect -- and which provides only a cumbersome way
(or perhaps no way at all) for the person to have his old
citizenship officially revoked under the old country's laws.
(That's right -- not all countries consider renunciation of
citizenship to be an unlimited right.)

So, depending on the other country's laws (and the new US citizen's
individual situation), the process of =really= getting rid of one's
old citizenship might be trivial, impossible, or anything in between.

Someone whose old country did not recognize the renunciatory clause
in the US naturalization oath might, or might not, have really
intended to give up his allegiance to his old country.

There is, perhaps, also the semantic question of whether a new US
citizen, who uses a passport from his old country to visit there,
intended to keep allegiance to the old country (in defiance of the
US naturalization oath), or was simply bowing to the legal demands
of the old country (which ignored his US naturalization and insisted
that he was still one of its citizens).

My understanding of the situation that led to the 1990 State Dept.
policy change permitting dual US/other citizenship in almost all
cases is that it was too difficult, in too many cases, to tell what
was going on the head of a naturalized US citizen at the time he
took the naturalization oath (with its renunciatory clause). Most
of the time, when the State Dept. did initially rule that someone
had lost his US citizenship because he didn't take the oath in good
faith, this initial ruling was overturned on appeal to the State
Dept.'s internal administrative review panel. As a result, they
finally decided it just wasn't worth it to keep trying, and the
result is the current (very permissive) policy. This policy could,
in theory, be changed by the bureaucrats -- but as a practical
matter, I believe this is very unlikely to happen.

Stuart

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Oct 31, 2001, 9:24:30 PM10/31/01
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ri...@webcom.com (Rich Wales) wrote:


> The Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag) does not contain any renun-
> ciatory clause.

Agreed ... it does not contain a renunciatory clause, but the very act of
pledging allegiance to a country is oft considered to be an exclusive oath
... i.e. in pledging allegiance to the USA, one, by the same token,
renounces allegiance to other countries. Now it is argued by some that
citizenship and allegiance are completely intertwined concepts and others
that suggest they are unique. Bureaucracy could tomorrow change the
current train of thought, although the courts might disagree!



> As a result, they
> finally decided it just wasn't worth it to keep trying, and the
> result is the current (very permissive) policy. This policy could,
> in theory, be changed by the bureaucrats -- but as a practical
> matter, I believe this is very unlikely to happen.

This is what I was, in different words, trying to say. Not that the US
bans dual citizenship at all, because it no longer overtly does so. But by
the same token, it does not overtly permit it either because there are
terms in the citizenship laws which bureaucratically enacted could prohibit
dual citizenship - which is what I mean by "the US tolerates dual
citizenship". Again, I agree, it's unlikely to happen, although with the
rising anti-immigrant climate in the US, it's not outside the realm of
possibility, although again, I would suspect it would go to the Supreme
court for determination ...

I would not like to say "never".

Stuart

paisano de varsovia

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Oct 31, 2001, 9:56:55 PM10/31/01
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I thought that while traveling to most, if not "all" countries, it is
illegal to be found in possesion of more than one passport. That one
is risking arrest if it is discovered that you have more than one
passport found in your possesion, regardless of which countries these
passports are from.. Can someone clarify this? Thank you.

paisano de varsovia

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Oct 31, 2001, 10:16:18 PM10/31/01
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Regarding UK citizenship. It is my understanding that Great Britain
allows their citizens to have, if they so choose, dual, triple, or more
nationalities/citizenships. Is that so?

Rich Wales

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Oct 31, 2001, 10:49:32 PM10/31/01
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Gary Dare wrote:

> If this was Ulf Samuelsson of the New York Rangers at
> Nagano, his problem was that his Swedish passport was

> invalidated by Swedish law, . . .

And, AFAIK, the reason Samuelsson's Swedish passport was invalidated
was because he had become a US citizen -- and under Swedish law, the
acquisition of another citizenship meant automatic loss of Swedish
citizenship. (Sweden forbids dual citizenship -- or, at least, it
did the last time I checked, though I read a while back that there
was a move afoot in Sweden to change the law and allow it.)

Rich Wales

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Oct 31, 2001, 10:44:26 PM10/31/01
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Stuart wrote:

> Agreed ... [the Pledge of Allegiance] does not contain a


> renunciatory clause, but the very act of pledging allegiance

> to a country is oft considered to be an exclusive oath . . . .

Some people do, indeed, feel that way. Legally, however, this inter-
pretation has no legal force in the US -- or, for that matter, in
Canada, the UK, Australia, or any of a number of countries which make
their new citizens swear or affirm "allegiance" without requiring or
expecting them to disavow allegiance to other countries.

Gary L. Dare

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Nov 1, 2001, 2:42:08 AM11/1/01
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Stuart (stuart....@spammenot.attcanada.ca) wrote:

: There are still those in power who believe that these pledges


: prohibit dual citizenship, but understand that a person may be
: a citizen of another country for reasons outside their power.

I met a lot of people in the US military who hated Clinton
with great passion, but executed honorably under him as
Commander-in-Chief until they left the service, or he left
office.

Gary L. Dare

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Nov 1, 2001, 2:44:38 AM11/1/01
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Rich Wales (ri...@webcom.com) wrote:
: Gary Dare wrote:

: > Yes, one of the US's non-recognition of dual citizenship
: > is that if you are a citizen, you are a citizen regardless
: > of how you get into Cuba and will be punished as such.

: In other words, a dual US/other citizen is the same, under US law,
: as someone who is a citizen only of the US.

: If you're a US citizen, the fact that you may also be claimed as a
: citizen by some other country doesn't affect your US status at all.

That's right, Rich. For anybody familiar with the wording
of US law, there are only two types of people: citizens and
aliens. Mars or Moldavia, you're an alien. (-;

Stephen Gallagher

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Nov 2, 2001, 7:48:53 AM11/2/01
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> Well, for the longest time the US believed that by the renunciation of
> allegiances clause in the citizenship ceremony and the Pledge of Allegiance
> for all citizens, that it did not permit dual citizenship.

The renunciatory clause was included in the
US citizenship oath at a time when very
few countries allowed dual citizenship.
Prior to WWII, most countries of the
world did not allow dual citizenship.
There mere act of obtaining another
citizenship was sufficient to cause loss of
original citizenship under the laws of
most countries. The US renunciatory clause
was merely an affirmation of this.

But in the second half of the 20th century,
countries began changing their nationality
laws so that acquisition of another citizenship
did not automatically cause loss of the persons
original citizenship. This meant that many
newly naturalized US citizens were still citizens
of their original country (Many of them, I`m sure
were not even aware of this).

If Congress wanted, they could pass a law requiring
that a newly naturalized US citizen be required to
follow up his US naturalization with the process of
formally renouncing his original citizenship
under the laws of that country.

It would present some difficulties, because while
some countries do easily allow a person to renounce
citizenship, others either do not allow it, they
require completion of military service first, they
require repayment for social benefits received while
that person was a child, they restrict future access
to that country (difficult if relatives are still there),
they restrict the right to a retirement pension that the
person may depend on, they restrict the ability to inherit
or own property there.

Stephen

Stephen Gallagher

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Nov 2, 2001, 8:10:55 AM11/2/01
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> > If this was Ulf Samuelsson of the New York Rangers at
> > Nagano, his problem was that his Swedish passport was
> > invalidated by Swedish law, . . .
>
> And, AFAIK, the reason Samuelsson's Swedish passport was invalidated
> was because he had become a US citizen -- and under Swedish law, the
> acquisition of another citizenship meant automatic loss of Swedish
> citizenship. (Sweden forbids dual citizenship -- or, at least, it
> did the last time I checked, though I read a while back that there
> was a move afoot in Sweden to change the law and allow it.)
>
> Rich Wales ri...@webcom.com http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/

And in fact, such a move was implemented in Sweden.
Effective July 1, 2001, the acquisition of a foreign
citizenship no longer causes loss of Swedish nationality.

There is also a period where persons who already
lost their Swedish nationality through the
acquisition of another nationality can apply to
have their Swedish nationality reinstated.

Stephen Gallagher

Matthew

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Nov 4, 2001, 10:54:40 AM11/4/01
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Yes they do... I am currently a citizen of both the UK and of Estonia...

I have no hassles' whatsoever when entering the UK. UK Immigration don't
care... as long as you are entitled to be in the UK, thus on a UK
passport... your welcome to enter.

I enter the UK and show my UK passport... when I leave.. I show my UK
passport... when your out of the country.... immigration don't care, nor can
they do anything about what passport you choose to use. As you are outside
UK law etc... same works for countries around the world.

Remember... immigration only get to know what you tell them. If your not
asked something, don't tell them! If they were to ask you your first name,
say Joe... not Joe Bloggs... your just telling them what they are asking!

But please note... DO NOT LIE... if they ask... tell them the truth... don't
fabricate stuff!


"paisano de varsovia" <pais...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:20839-3B...@storefull-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Helmut Weiss

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Dec 15, 2001, 6:57:07 AM12/15/01
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pais...@webtv.net (paisano de varsovia) wrote in news:20840-3BE0B9F7-19@storefull-
293.iap.bryant.webtv.net:

I've heard this too - I'd be interested in any follow up.

Stephen Gallagher

unread,
Dec 15, 2001, 1:55:02 PM12/15/01
to
> > I thought that while traveling to most, if not "all" countries, it is
> > illegal to be found in possesion of more than one passport. That one
> > is risking arrest if it is discovered that you have more than one
> > passport found in your possesion, regardless of which countries these
> > passports are from.. Can someone clarify this? Thank you.
>
> I've heard this too - I'd be interested in any follow up.

There's nothing in US law that says you can't hold more
than one passport. You can't have more than one US passport
(except when a person has a regular US passport for personal
use and is issued a special passport by the government,
like a diplomatic passport, for use when representing the US
government. In general, most countries that do not have
laws prohibiting dual nationality also allow their
citizens to hold passports from multiple countries, if
they are entitled to hold them under the laws of those
countries.

Stephen Gallagher

jb

unread,
Dec 15, 2001, 2:53:04 PM12/15/01
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I'm not sure what country is being discussed here but there is no US law
that prevents this. Search the web for the Dual citizenship FAQ by Rich
Wales.

Or search the google newsgroup archives, this topic comes up every
couple of months.

Rich Wales

unread,
Dec 16, 2001, 12:26:09 AM12/16/01
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"Paisano de Varsovia" wrote:

> I thought that while traveling to most, if not "all"

> countries, it is illegal to be found in possession of
> more than one passport.

Short answer: I doubt it -- except in the case of a country which
prohibits dual citizenship, and thus prohibits anyone to have both
one of =its= passports and also a passport from some other country.

Longer answer:

I would be very surprised if any country had laws making it illegal
for an alien traveller with dual/multiple citizenship (in other
countries) to be in possession of multiple passports -- one for each
of the other countries of which he is a citizen -- unless there is
evidence of fraud.

If a dual citizen is on a trip which includes stops in both of the
countries which claim him as a citizen, then it is quite conceivable
that he might be =required= to carry two passports, for the simple
reason that each country which considers him to be one of its citi-
zens may expect him to show one of =its= passports when he comes to
that country.

What "Paisano" is suggesting would mean that a citizen of countries
X and Y -- if taking a trip with stops in X, Y, and a third country
Z -- might be prohibited by country Z from carrying passports from
both X and Y -- even if the laws of X and Y required him to do so in
order to enter/exit both of those countries legally.

Now, of course, there are some countries which prohibit their citizens
having other citizenships -- and in a case like this, I can easily
imagine that the laws of such a country might make it illegal for
anyone to have both =its= passport and any other country's passport.
For example, India forbids dual Indian/other citizenship, and (as I
understand Indian law) no one may legally have both an Indian passport
and a passport from any other country.

But if I (a dual US/Canadian citizen) were to fly from the US to India,
intending to stop in Canada on my way back, I might take both a US and
a Canadian passport with me, and as far as I'm aware, this would not
be a violation of Indian law, since I'm not claiming to be a citizen
of India, and neither of my (perfectly legitimate) passports is from
India.

On the other hand, if I were from India, had become a naturalized US
citizen, and subsequently tried to travel between the US and India
with passports from both these countries, I would be setting myself
up for serious legal problems in India, since (as I said) India's
laws make it illegal for anyone to have both an =Indian= passport and
any other passport.

Rich Wales ri...@richw.org http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

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