The Politics of Diabetes

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Jim Dumas

unread,
Sep 11, 2003, 1:10:44 PM9/11/03
to
All:

I think it's important to wrap-up this Dave Groves/Diabetic's International
Foundation issue.

1) For Mary, only friends tell each other what they really think.

2) Dave's behavior suggests he's not planning to be here long. (And there
is no clear chain of command in DIF.)

3) DIF was a first attempt at a US DM patient-based organization. This was
a natural reaction to the removal of bovine insulins from the US market.
When we (Mary, Dr Bob, Walter, Dave and myself) wrote the bylaws in
September, 2000, we kept membership open to all DMs, (T1s, T2s,
Klinefelter's syndrome, etc., were all equally welcome). Expectations were
too high and bovine insulin became the sole focus of the organization. Dr
Bob Blumenthal tried to launch a primary care physician training program
but this conflicted with the bovine insulin focus and eventually failed to
raise funds. Nobody had a good suggestion for raising funds for this new
organization. It failed to gain popular support for this single issue of
bovine insulin. Mary, a porcine insulin user, began to have success
working with the Canadian Society for Diabetic Rights and this was a bright
spot in the overall bleak picture. In September, 2000, this new
organization marched into the US Senate Offices and demanded impromptu
meetings to discuss the issue of bovine insulin. Much to my surprise, my
then Senator's office, Senator Specter of PA, accepted an appointment for
the following afternoon. We spent an hour with two staffers and the upshot
was there is an importation procedure via the FDA and USDA; and, this is
all the Government was planning to do. In retrospect, we should have moved
on at that point. But hindsight is 20/20. As for me, I made contact with
Mr Sharma of USV-India and this relationship continues.

In any case, we DMs are forced into the politics of health-care whether we
like it or not. We have no choice. DIF was a first attempt and we learned
quite a bit about the lobbying of Washington. It is my sincere belief that
we DMs need some DM patient based organization to act as a policeman on the
beat to keep all parties honest. The one group with no voice is the vast
majority: us patients. So it seems reasonable to set up some patient based
organization to provide this urgently needed voice.

Another point is that this discussion has brought many new people to MHD.
This is a good thing, IMO. We need new ideas and this medium brings us all
together to discuss them.

The final point is the US society places more weight on negative information
than on positive information (just watch the news). This is because
negative information facilitates change.

So in a nutshell, that's what I'm thinking,
--
Jim Dumas
T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely hypoglycemic: <1/mo.
lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, typically <6% HbA1c

Mary

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 3:35:16 AM9/12/03
to
Jim Dumas <j-d...@de.SPAM!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<o028b.8656$Yt....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

Jim,

Telling the friend what you think is one thing. Giving out personal
info that is laced uith fiction is quite another thing.

Again, you have some wrong information when you said I was a pork
user. I only use pork R mixed with imported beef Neutral at the same
ratio as the old Ilentin I. Along with that I use imported beef
Lente.

One more thing. It was the "human" insulin that was at fault. It
caused the accident which left his leg mangled and the repair work
done, over the years, eventually cut off most of the circulation in
his leg. This was confired by the doctors.

As far as being a friend of Dave's??? You haven't been for as long as
I've know you.

lora...@ozconnect.net

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 5:21:04 AM9/12/03
to
On 12 Sep 2003 00:35:16 -0700, mhun...@comcast.net (Mary) wrote:

>Jim Dumas <j-d...@de.SPAM!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<o028b.8656$Yt....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>> All:
>>
>> I think it's important to wrap-up this Dave Groves/Diabetic's International
>> Foundation issue.

Some day, it's possible, even likely, I may go to hospital. I sure
won't tell anyone here - I wouldn't want to read the sort of reports
I've been reading for the last week or so. No-one's perfect, least of
all me. I don't know Dave, and from what's been said I would probably
disagree with his views.
But I fervently hope he recovers fully, particularly so that he can
reply to some posters personally.

My mum used to say "if you can't say something nice about someone,
don't say anything".

The older I get, the wiser she sounds.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz


Jim Dumas

unread,
Sep 12, 2003, 1:06:33 PM9/12/03
to
Mary wrote:

> Telling the friend what you think is one thing. Giving out personal
> info that is laced uith fiction is quite another thing.
>
> Again, you have some wrong information when you said I was a pork
> user. I only use pork R mixed with imported beef Neutral at the same
> ratio as the old Ilentin I. Along with that I use imported beef
> Lente.
>
> One more thing. It was the "human" insulin that was at fault. It
> caused the accident which left his leg mangled and the repair work
> done, over the years, eventually cut off most of the circulation in
> his leg. This was confired by the doctors.
>
> As far as being a friend of Dave's??? You haven't been for as long as
> I've know you.

Hi Mary,

Everybody has some threshold where Dave's abusive behavior is no longer
accepted. He crossed that point before I met you. But friendship and
abusive behavior are separable characteristics for me.

Next, you have my permission to correct my statements.

I will accept your opinions,

Marilyn McView

unread,
Sep 15, 2003, 11:49:56 PM9/15/03
to

<lora...@ozconnect.net> wrote in message
news:rf33mvklo8aub35j3...@4ax.com...

> On 12 Sep 2003 00:35:16 -0700, mhun...@comcast.net (Mary) wrote:
>
> Some day, it's possible, even likely, I may go to hospital. I sure
> won't tell anyone here - I wouldn't want to read the sort of reports
> I've been reading for the last week or so.

Alan,

This group typically doesn't bad-mouth people when they are ill. At least
not people who post about their life and are somewhat reasonable. If,
however, you have had an experience where the majority of posts from you, to
you and about you are negative, then there will be bad things said.

Dave Groves has made a lot of enemies over the years. If you aren't 100%
with him, he thinks you are against him. If you oppose him and know what
you are talking about he really gets mad because it makes him look bad.
Once he is mad at someone it is his mission to destroy that person in any
way he can. And he is slick at twisting and turning and getting some people
to listen. I've seen it occur over and over and over and over the past 9
years. You don't continually do this to people and receive kindness and
sympathy when you are ill.

Marilyn

Marilyn McView

unread,
Sep 15, 2003, 11:51:54 PM9/15/03
to

"Mary" <mhun...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a8d34ee7.03091...@posting.google.com...

>
> One more thing. It was the "human" insulin that was at fault. It
> caused the accident which left his leg mangled and the repair work
> done, over the years, eventually cut off most of the circulation in
> his leg. This was confired by the doctors.
>
Was his emergency bypass was done on the LEG? If not then whose leg is he
pulling? Did you talk to the doctors?

Marilyn


Ted Rosenberg

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 12:39:21 AM9/16/03
to
cc'd by email

Mary wrote:

Well Mary, it if bullcrap like this which shows why Dave is a 100%
asshole with lots of enemies and few friends

I take back anything at all nice I said about him - we are dealing with
the same old Betty Martini of insulin and his pet trolls.

<snip>

lora...@ozconnect.net

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 7:11:22 AM9/16/03
to
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:49:56 GMT, "Marilyn McView"
<mcv...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Alan,
>
>This group typically doesn't bad-mouth people when they are ill. At least
>not people who post about their life and are somewhat reasonable. If,
>however, you have had an experience where the majority of posts from you, to
>you and about you are negative, then there will be bad things said.

Hi Marilyn

I take your point, and I accept that we may reap what we sow. It
appears that Dave has.

That doesn't mean anyone should gloat at the illness of a mis-guided
evangelist.

Some of the posters here seemed to be dancing in the streets. With the
exception of Saddam Hussein, Joe Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and (add a
politician, almost any politician) I would never wish harm to anyone
afflicted.

We are all complex individuals; I've recently had a dispute with some
on this list. Oddly enough I argued with people who, in all other
views, I greatly respect; but on one issue we had to disagree. I would
hate to think that that argument coloured their views when I become
ill. Similarly, there appears to be a very singular view of Dave by
some.

Cheers Alan, T2, Oz

Jim Dumas

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 12:24:33 PM9/16/03
to
lora...@ozconnect.net wrote:

> Similarly, there appears to be a very singular view of Dave by
> some.

Hi Alan,

I consider myself a moderate. I sit on the fence and switch political party
lines to achieve my goals. You do what is necessary to get the job done.

My goal for the Dave Groves discussion was to bring all parties together in
a healing process, as Dave is clearly not trying to stay with us. So we
must prepare for the day when he's gone. Knowing Dave, this view of mine
will keep him around longer. So this is a challenge for him to get well.

In any case, those who don't know Dave should stand clear. There are two
camps: the majority who dislike him and the minority who love him. I'm
somewhere in the middle and therefore unusual. Hopefully, the anger
towards Dave will work itself out sooner than later.

So let's stop throwing salt in this old wound and move on.

Barry

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 2:57:22 PM9/16/03
to
I agree with you. With Dave Groves it's either black or white and nothing
in the middle. I admire him for his perseverance and tenacity in pursuing
what he believes is right but I don't admire his dogmatic and domineering
way of putting over his argument. But he'll never change no matter what is
put in front of him so I adopt the attitude "I'm sure you think you're
right"

Barry UK

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@de.SPAM!mindspring.com> wrote in message

news:5PG9b.19928$Aq2....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Guy

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 3:21:26 PM9/16/03
to

I had the opportunity to communicate with several former
Nazi's over the years. It revealed a dogmatic and domineering
personality. When these types are wrong, God help us.

Guy

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:57:22 +0100, "Barry" <ba...@metoll.co.uk>
wrote:

Ted Rosenberg

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 5:59:30 PM9/16/03
to
cc'd by email
amen

When Dave is in the hospital, it is not 'Dave is in the hospital" it is
"BECAUSE OF HUMAN INSULIN, which he took years ago, Dave is now in the
hospital"

I am afraid I just lost any compassion for him - He is the Betty Martini
of Insulin

Ted Rosenberg

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 6:00:08 PM9/16/03
to

lora...@ozconnect.net

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 6:50:58 PM9/16/03
to
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:24:33 GMT, Jim Dumas
<j-d...@de.SPAM!mindspring.com> wrote:

>So let's stop throwing salt in this old wound and move on.

OK Jim. 'nuff said. Cheers Alan

Jim Dumas

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 9:35:21 PM9/16/03
to
Barry wrote:

> I agree with you. With Dave Groves it's either black or white and nothing
> in the middle. I admire him for his perseverance and tenacity in pursuing
> what he believes is right but I don't admire his dogmatic and domineering
> way of putting over his argument. But he'll never change no matter what
> is put in front of him so I adopt the attitude "I'm sure you think you're
> right"

Hi Barry,

Just to say thanks for your input. I know I appear heartless to many on
this issue. But I tried to set the pace on negative information thereby
keeping the discussion civil, as the fighting could have been worse for
this unmoderated NG, IMO.

Thanks again,

Nico Kadel-Garcia

unread,
Sep 16, 2003, 10:34:57 PM9/16/03
to
Marilyn McView wrote:

If you start losing circulation in the femoral artery or other big old
honking blood vessels in the leg, you *will* need a bypass there.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages