Dear Beav,

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Jim Dumas

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Jan 5, 2002, 3:33:04 PM1/5/02
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It's once again time to move on. It should be clear to you by now that your
brain lacks enough glucose to function properly. Your 5.1% HbA1c, in a
reference range of 5-7% for normals, suggests you are chronically
hypoglycemic. It would be healthier to keep your HbA1c at the high end of
normal, say 6.5%. This will minimize brain damage from long-term low blood
sugars. It will also make you an easier person to get along with, as well as
make you more productive. Moreover, you're at an age where DM complications
will take too long to develop before something else moves you across the
river.

As an example, my typical 5.8-6.1% HbA1c is in a reference range of 4.1-6.1%
for normals. I believe this is the optimum point to be, to minimize
complications and still have normal mental functions.

In short, I propose a truce. If you don't bother me, I will not bother you.
But expect to get clobbered if you're in my face.

This is simply an extension of the "Golden Rule." Sincerely,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove deSPAMMER)
T1 4/86, Beavis: MILD bgnd retinopathy, rarely HG: <1/mo.
lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, <6% HbA1c typ.

Big Nascar Fan

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Jan 5, 2002, 5:06:53 PM1/5/02
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Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.

You're starting to sound like her.

Jim Dumas

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Jan 5, 2002, 5:36:57 PM1/5/02
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Big Nascar Fan wrote:
>
> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
>
> You're starting to sound like her.

Hi Paul,

Everything in life requires a careful balance. If you get too focused in one
or the other extreme, there is a cascade of negative events that hurts a
large number of people.

I realize that Beav's use of CP beef insulin is near and dear to your heart,
(as well as Dave Groves'). But if used incorrectly, it could cause just as
much hypoglycemia as human insulin. So the issue isn't what insulin but why
too much insulin (or too little food).

I believe Beav's disposition is poor because he is hypoglycemic. He says he
feels bad if he tries to let his BG risen (the brain set-points will
eventually change/adjust). So we have an impasse. The solution is to stay
out of each other's way. I for one do not plan to suffer at Beav's hand
simply because he is hypoglycemic. So if he bugs me then I'll bug him.
Eventually, even if hypoglycemic, you'll get the message.

So I proposed this truce. Let's see if he's man enough to accept it.

Marilyn "McView"

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Jan 5, 2002, 6:22:04 PM1/5/02
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Big Nascar Fan <nas...@bigger.com> wrote in message
news:3C377923...@bigger.com...

> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.

Amazingly, you have been far more critical of "another T1" than Jim has ever
been. Beavis has doing his share of bashing Jim. I have never once
criticized you.

--
Marilyn


Jim Dumas

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Jan 5, 2002, 8:29:31 PM1/5/02
to
Big Nascar Fan wrote:
>
> Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
>
> You're starting to sound like her.

Hi again Paul,

You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were usually
on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.

I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I must
agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.

One final point, it is far better for a T1 to help another T1, (you may not
see it that way right now, but give it time), then to let him sail toward the
sounds of the Sirens and perish. If this requires a 2"x4" wallop up-side the
forehead, then that's what it takes.

Sorry to disagree,

Beavis

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Jan 5, 2002, 9:46:26 PM1/5/02
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"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C37A87B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Big Nascar Fan wrote:
> >
> > Ya know Jim why don't you go back to Compuserve and take Mar
> > with you. Why any T1 would criticise another is beyond me.
> >
> > You're starting to sound like her.
>
> Hi again Paul,
>
> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I
were usually
> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion
where we
> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no
malice.
>
> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with
Beav. So I must
> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
>
> One final point, it is far better for a T1 to help another T1,
(you may not
> see it that way right now, but give it time), then to let him
sail toward the
> sounds of the Sirens and perish. If this requires a 2"x4"
wallop up-side the
> forehead, then that's what it takes.

You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it is,
just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it matter
nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out the
emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink or
glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon shot
and never even come close to being unconscious.

Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of 18
months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and when I
feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing something
right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the right
foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as a
first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in check.
(Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so later
you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.

I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of the
time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't care. I
gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.

Granted you probably won't see me, but then again, you might get
lucky.

Finally, you couldn't smack me upside the head with a 4" X 2" if
you had all your pals to help you.

Beav

Jim Dumas

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Jan 5, 2002, 10:23:11 PM1/5/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> Granted you probably won't see me, but then again, you might get
> lucky.
>
> Finally, you couldn't smack me upside the head with a 4" X 2" if
> you had all your pals to help you.

Dear Beav,

I'm sorry you're up so late. But with all your verbage I still don't know if
you've accepted the truce. It's nice to see an absence of malice in your
post, however.

So is the truce accepted?

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 2:02:38 PM1/6/02
to
Dear Beav,

Let me sweeten my offer:

> You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it is,
> just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it matter
> nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out the
> emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink or
> glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon shot
> and never even come close to being unconscious.

I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of the HbA1c
scale. If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower than 5-7% from
your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me. (I'd have to accept
you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)


> Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
> complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of 18
> months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and when I
> feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
> before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing something
> right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the right
> foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as a
> first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
> wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
> whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in check.
> (Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so later
> you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
> overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.

You're doing almost everything right. If I'm correct about you being
chronically hypoglycemic, then your brain is getting fried in the process.


> I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of the
> time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't care. I
> gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
> didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
> beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.

Nature is inconsistent. So I told a pregnant woman, who is new to insulin
therapy, to go slow and prevent overdosing the fetus, (thereby shocking the
little one). You're upset that I didn't tell her to stuff herself now that
she has insulin? You should be praising me for following Beav's rules on
this one. Insulin is just another tool in our toolbox. Like any tool, there
are times when it will not work for the application at hand. You must know
how to use that tool properly for each situation. So I don't see any
inconsistency in my advice. That's just the way nature is.

Next, I'd like to thank you for your sound dietary advice in our early
exchanges. How were you to know that I was not a newbie and preferred to do
things my way.

Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no hostilities
by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude). They are just trying to help.

In return for your promise of no hostilities toward Marilyn and Paul; and a
simple truce with me, I'll drop my provocative sarcasm in my exchanges with
you. As Marilyn and attest, you've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?

Big Nascar Fan

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Jan 6, 2002, 3:02:46 PM1/6/02
to
You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
achieve good glycohemaglobins. Go back to your dynamic
therapy and Compuserve.

When you've lived with this for 40 years, I'll listen.

You're a Mar clone.

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 3:30:47 PM1/6/02
to
Big Nascar Fan wrote:
>
> You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> achieve good glycohemaglobins. Go back to your dynamic
> therapy and Compuserve.
>
> When you've lived with this for 40 years, I'll listen.
>
> You're a Mar clone.

Nobody likes to hear the negatives of keeping your HbA1c too low. But there
is a downside that must be addressed. The point is, a careful balance is
required so neurons don't die.

AF Marilyn, we usually argue but I think she takes the opposite side of the
argument just to get more of my attention.

So you could be right,

Beavis

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Jan 6, 2002, 4:52:50 PM1/6/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C389F4E...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Dear Beav,
>
> Let me sweeten my offer:

Sweeten away.


>
> > You talk the talk Jim, I'll give you that, but that's all it
is,
> > just talk. You can go on thinking I'm hypo if you want, it
matter
> > nothing to me. And as for me, I've never ever had to call out
the
> > emergency services, have anyone even get me a "pick-up" drink
or
> > glucose tabs. I've never had to resort to using a Glugogon
shot
> > and never even come close to being unconscious.
>
> I believe you. But you're still too close to the low end of
the HbA1c
> scale.

In YOUR opinion. Not in the opinion of the people at the diabetic
clinic. Or mine.

If you could prove the HbA1c reference range is lower than 5-7%
from
> your lab, then you'd have a better argument against me.

I posted what my lab normals are, and I posted what my A1c's have
been for the last 3 checks. They've always been at these levels
apart from one episode where it was much higher (faulty meter and
a bad 6 month period)

(I'd have to accept
> you're not chronically hypoglycemic.)

Jim, you seem to think that I somehow care WHAT you accept. I
don't.


>
>
> > Now couple that to the fact that I have no sign of any
> > complications (although of course I am the MASSIVE total of
18
> > months behind you in this), can eat (or not eat) what and
when I
> > feel like, never suffer from any ailments that I didn't have
> > before I became diabetic and I get the idea I'm doing
something
> > right. That "something right" just happens to be eating the
right
> > foods in the right amounts and when I first mentioned food as
a
> > first line of defence, you phoo-phoo'ed that idea because YOU
> > wanted to eat as you did prior to your dx, and will shoot
> > whatever amount of insulin it takes to keep your sugar in
check.
> > (Well not really, but we'll skip that). Then a week or so
later
> > you're telling someone else that food IS the first line and
> > overdosing on insulin isn't a good idea.
>
> You're doing almost everything right. If I'm correct about you
being
> chronically hypoglycemic, then your brain is getting fried in
the process.

No frying going on round here. It still only takes me two or
three weeks to learn a whole piano symphony from scratch. (That
takes some remembering if you didn't know)


>
>
> > I'm sure even YOU (who's hyperglyceamic for the majority of
the
> > time) can see the inconsistencies there. However, I don't
care. I
> > gave you souldn solid advice in my first post to you, but you
> > didn't like it (obviously had your ear bent by Groves
> > beforehand), so carry on carrying on and I'll see you.
>
> Nature is inconsistent. So I told a pregnant woman, who is new
to insulin
> therapy, to go slow and prevent overdosing the fetus, (thereby
shocking the
> little one). You're upset that I didn't tell her to stuff
herself now that
> she has insulin? You should be praising me for following
Beav's rules on
> this one.

Actually no, I'm NOT upset that you told her what you did,
because you told her the right thing. I just wondered why you
don't practice what you preach and instead condemn someone who
DOES use food as a defence against complications. Seems to me
you're one of those "Do as I say and not as I do" types.

Insulin is just another tool in our toolbox. Like any tool,
there
> are times when it will not work for the application at hand.
You must know
> how to use that tool properly for each situation.

Indeed I do know. I also know that we use it primarily to
"handle" whatever food we eat, so it's re-active and not
pro-active. I prefer the pro-active route myself.


So I don't see any
> inconsistency in my advice. That's just the way nature is.
>
> Next, I'd like to thank you for your sound dietary advice in
our early
> exchanges.

Which is ALL I gave. No "advice" on how to insulin dose, when to
dose, or how MUCH to dose.

How were you to know that I was not a newbie and preferred to
do
> things my way.

And how were you to know that some people can EASILY run sugars
in the 3-6 mmol/ml range all day every day without a hint of a
problem? What is you call it? Nature? It works both ways, or as
it's usually known here "YMMV"


>
> Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no
hostilities
> by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude).

I don't need you to tell me who Paul is, I've met him personally.

They are just trying to help.

I know ONE of them is.


>
> In return for your promise of no hostilities toward Marilyn and
Paul; and a
> simple truce with me, I'll drop my provocative sarcasm in my
exchanges with
> you. As Marilyn and attest, you've only seen the tip of the
iceberg.

You can't resist can you? A piss poor attempt at the olive branch
in one hand and a threat in the other. It really frightens me
that you might type some nasty words which I might read (or might
not, depending on how I feel) if I decline your "offer". In fact
it makes me quake. With laughter.

>
> So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?

I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 5:30:32 PM1/6/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
>
> I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.

Dear Beav,

You are so much fun. I accept your decision and want you to know my door is
always open for you.

But thanks for thinking about it,

Martin Boulger

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Jan 6, 2002, 5:55:17 PM1/6/02
to
Guys,

Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the Hba1c bit "ref <
7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually specify a lower
point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of my Hba1cs was
just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just under 5. Don't
they call it the "under 5% club"?

Martin.


"Beavis" <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
news:mG3_7.2749$6q2.8...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 6:39:55 PM1/6/02
to
Martin Boulger wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the Hba1c bit "ref <
> 7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually specify a lower
> point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of my Hba1cs was
> just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just under 5. Don't
> they call it the "under 5% club"?

Hi Martin,

You make a good point. My argument is based on the low normal HbA1c value.
In the DCCT, as an example, the normal range was based on a mean of 5.1% and
standard deviation of 0.5%. So the normal range was the mean plus or minus
two standard deviations that gives 4.1% to 6.1%. If I were keeping my BG low
and having an HbA1c of 4.2% (0.1% above the low end as Beav seems to have),
I'd be out cold on the floor 24 hours a day and nearly brain dead. But their
does also seem to be an up-regulation of glycogen stores in astrocytes in the
brain that fuel neurons under hypoglycemic conditions. So in theory, with
long-term hypoglycemia, the brain stores a small amount of extra glucose in
astrocytes that surround neurons. So the brain "learns" how to operate
better (but not normally) when chronically hypoglycemic.

In any case, since we seem to be using different assay methods between the UK
and the US, it's critical for us to know the low end of the normal range in
the lab. If Beav can prove the low end of the normal range for his lab is
4.1%, (as in the old Bio-Rad manual HPLC assay method of the DCCT), then I'd
have to concede to Beav. He would have a large margin for error and would
probably not be flirting with hypoglycemia.

Thanks for your post, Martin,

Nico Kadel-Garcia

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Jan 6, 2002, 7:21:43 PM1/6/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C38D008...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
> >
> > I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
>
> Dear Beav,
>
> You are so much fun. I accept your decision and want you to know my door
is
> always open for you.
>
> But thanks for thinking about it,

You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
was open.

Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?


Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 7:36:14 PM1/6/02
to
Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>
> You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
> was open.
>
> Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?

Hi Nico,

I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it isolated to minimize
the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I can do that
as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused. So Beav
hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is quite simple.

Sorry to upset everyone, but I've been quite surgical about this,

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 8:10:05 PM1/6/02
to
Gary Ennis wrote:
>
> It would appear, you still have much to learn.
>
> "Sad"

Hi Gary,

I'm always interested in learning new ideas, I'm all eyes, continue,

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 8:24:34 PM1/6/02
to
Gary Ennis wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Sorry, But I am a firm believer in letting one learn by making
> mistakes, you are on your own. :-)
>
> Good luck!

Thanks Gary, you're wisdom stands as an example to others,

Marilyn "McView"

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Jan 6, 2002, 9:17:58 PM1/6/02
to

Big Nascar Fan <nas...@bigger.com> wrote in message
news:3C38AD62...@bigger.com...

> You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> achieve good glycohemaglobins.

Bi,
(Since you feel free to shorten my name, I will return the favor)

I feel you have missed the point that Mr. Dumas was making. Most blood
tests have a normal range. When results are out of normal range, this
indicates a concern. Beavis has been saying his numbers are lower than
normal, in other words, he is outside of normal range. Being lower than
normal has its problems, just as being highter than normal does.

Beavis seems unwilling to admit that there are potential problems with being
lower than normal. He even goes as far telling Mr. Dumas that his
normal-range A1c is too high. While whatever Beavis does to himself is his
own business, bear in mind that we would all be yelling malpractice to a
doctor who pushed for lower-than-normal results.

I think you should look at what is being said instead of merely choosing
sides based upon who you have shared a joke or two with.

--
Marilyn


Marilyn "McView"

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Jan 6, 2002, 9:27:34 PM1/6/02
to

Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C37A87B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Hi again Paul,
>
> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were
usually
> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.
>
> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I
must
> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.

Jim,

Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
separate the issues from the person.

I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".

--
Marilyn


Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 9:38:22 PM1/6/02
to
Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
> stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
> find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
> attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
> defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
> have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
> separate the issues from the person.
>
> I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
> have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".

Lookout!

The woman just got home!

That went better than I expected!

Thanks, Madame M!

Jim Dumas

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Jan 6, 2002, 10:17:48 PM1/6/02
to
Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>
> You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth* that
> was open.
>
> Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?

Just a quick note Nico,

I just measured BG and it was a 351 mg/dl. The epinephrine effects are
dominating in this dogfight mode. I noticed years ago, that when I get
focused writing computer programs, my BG skyrockets. So some adrenaline
effect has had me pumped all day. So no chance of hypoglycemia as I started
the day at a 451, took 27U of Humalog and just about nothing happened. And
no food all day. So roughage is quite necessary at this point. With that
said, I'll still hit my 6% HbA1c target. I've done it for years.

I use the AccuChek Complete with Comfort curve strips. So quite trusty.

But clearly not hypoglycemic,

Marilyn "McView"

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Jan 6, 2002, 10:38:49 PM1/6/02
to

Beavis <beavis....@ntlwoxoorld.com> wrote in message
news:mG3_7.2749$6q2.8...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
>
<snip>

> > Finally, I'd like to amend the terms of the truce to include no
> hostilities
> > by you toward Marilyn and Paul (NASCAR dude).
>
> I don't need you to tell me who Paul is, I've met him personally.
>
> They are just trying to help.
>
> I know ONE of them is.
> >

Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)

--
Marilyn


Mack

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Jan 6, 2002, 11:12:58 PM1/6/02
to
On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:27:34 GMT, "Marilyn \"McView\""
<mcv...@home.com> wrote:

>
>Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:3C37A87B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...
>
>> Hi again Paul,
>>
>> You'll be interested to know that on CompuServe, Marilyn and I were
>usually
>> on opposite sides of the issues. So this is one rare occasion where we
>> agree. We were always civil to each other so there is no malice.
>>
>> I also think she has been quite restrained in my battle with Beav. So I
>must
>> agree with her that you were out of line by mentioning her.
>
>Jim,
>
>Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do not
>stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate. I
>find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
>attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
>defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
>have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people cannot
>separate the issues from the person.

if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
in others?


>
>I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
>have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".

Derek
Type 1 since 1975
Minimed 508 Insulin Pump
http://www.diabeticnet.com
http://sweetblood.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.diabetesinterview.com
http://www.zerolimit.net (irc server webpage for our chat room)
#diabeticnet is the name of our IRC chat on zerolimit.net
http://www.zerolimit.net/files/zl-mirc.exe
http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/misc/webtv.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ircle/ <--Ircle Mac IRC software
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/06/cureall.htm

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 6, 2002, 11:25:55 PM1/6/02
to
Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
>
> Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)

You're welcome,

Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you should know that I
appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.

I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 6, 2002, 11:42:31 PM1/6/02
to
Mack wrote:
>
> if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
> him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
> in others?

Hi Dereck,

It's nice to see you're getting with the program, Derek. I welcome your
perspectives.

IMO, I'm just fighting fire with fire.

> >I harbor no malice towards anyone with whom I have disagreed with. As you
> >have noted, the next issue may find us on the same "side".

Goals change as we do. So this political shift is natural and understood.

I have no problem with this, but please continue your thought train,

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 12:23:25 AM1/7/02
to

To keep Derek at bay,

The Humalog was pulled out of the refrigerator Xmas eve so has yet to hit the
28 day limit. It worked fine yesterday. I've also tried Novolog and it's
alittle more potent then Humalog.

It should be quite clear from this glimpse of my metabolism, that Beav's
methods will not work for me. More to the point, he should give up on me as
a Crusading goal because he doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle in
front of him.

Groves has long argued that I'm insulin resistant. He could be right,

Nico Kadel-Garcia

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 1:23:44 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C38ED7D...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >
> > You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I accept you
> > because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's *mouth*
that
> > was open.
> >
> > Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
>
> Hi Nico,
>
> I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it isolated to
minimize
> the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I can do
that
> as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused. So Beav
> hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is quite simple.

Jim, have you ever *watched* serious surgery? It's quite messy. Those gowns
are only partly to keep the patient uninfected, they're also to protect the
clothes of people across the room from spraying fluids and flying bits from
some of the more interesting procedures. I've watched a few up close, and
designed some medical electronics that I've handled on the surgical floor:
such surgery involves bone bits spraying at fairly high velocity when the
pneumatic drill is applied.

But even more important to keeping the mess down, they do it in a different
room, one with a door. So if you're going to keep taunting, I suggest you do
it in private. Preferably with your sock drawer: that way, any body fluids
you might happen to create by having so much fun this way will be on your
clothes, not constantly dripped in a public area.

I mean, listen to yourself. "Oh, Beav, you *poor* dear. You *must* be
hypoglycemic, because you disagree so much with me, and that's what I've
decided about you. So you *must* be unable to continue this *fascinating*
discussion. Toddle along now, that's a good little boy, listen to your
auntie Dumas and go get a nice sweater to wear in front of the nice people."

Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....


Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 1:49:44 AM1/7/02
to
Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>
> Beav, do me a favor? Put him in your killfile....

Hi Nico,

As a biomed grad student in 1993, I was in a VA OR a few times for course
work. So I've been there and done that.

But your suggestion to Beav will stop this quickly and I agree with you,

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 2:07:23 AM1/7/02
to
Or better yet, Nico,

Would you care to mediate the dispute?

I think you'd make a good unbiased party to help us, will you?

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 6:14:35 AM1/7/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
>
> I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.

Dear Beav,

I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he can help,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)

Marilyn "McView"

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 7:49:27 AM1/7/02
to

Jim Dumas <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C392353...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you should know that
I
> appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.

Gracias. Opinions can be argued until kingdom come and no one is never
right or wrong. If the opposing side has something to say then we should be
learning from it if only to strenghten our own opinion and come up with
better arguments. Closed minds, like closed parachutes, are worthless..

> I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!

Problem is I am an independant. Float like a butterfy <g> I've fought
fiercly with Beavis on this point before, I have no desire to do this again.
He is in denial about his hg unawareness and sadly has support from others.
Some seem to feel that it is perfectly normal to not feel any symptoms until
the 30s (but only if you are on beef). I've got better things to do than
fight with these yahoos again.

Marilyn "McView"

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:08:49 AM1/7/02
to

Mack <der...@diabeticnetnospam.com> wrote in message
news:mv7i3u4e78of78fpu...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 02:27:34 GMT, "Marilyn \"McView\""
> <mcv...@home.com> wrote:
> >Thank you. I argue the issues, not the person. There are people who do
not
> >stick to this and I have ended up as a person that people love to hate.
I
> >find it amazing how people quickly deteriorate from issues to person
> >attacks. To me it merely shows that the person admits they can no longer
> >defend their position or they are fighting back with the only tools they
> >have at their disposal. Either way, it is too bad that more people
cannot
> >separate the issues from the person.
>
> if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have the beiw of
> him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you condemn
> in others?

Derek,

Read my words. Did I say that any one person is exempt from my opinion?
Nope.

I happen to agree with him on this one point. He's not my buddy, he's not
my enemy. Next point I may agree with him and I may not. This is what
people do - unless they are arguing the person and not the idea.

--
Marilyn


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:10:40 AM1/7/02
to

"Marilyn "McView"" <mcv...@home.com> wrote in message
news:qz7_7.73737$va.36...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com...

>
> Big Nascar Fan <nas...@bigger.com> wrote in message
> news:3C38AD62...@bigger.com...
> > You're a puke for laying a guilt trip on T1's trying to
> > achieve good glycohemaglobins.
>
> Bi,
> (Since you feel free to shorten my name, I will return the
favor)
>
> I feel you have missed the point that Mr. Dumas was making.
Most blood
> tests have a normal range. When results are out of normal
range, this
> indicates a concern. Beavis has been saying his numbers are
lower than
> normal, in other words, he is outside of normal range.

I see your reading skills haven't improved Mar. Beav has NEVER
said he's outside the normal range, he's said he's at the lower
end of the non diabetic (normal) range.

Being lower than
> normal has its problems, just as being highter than normal
does.
>
> Beavis seems unwilling to admit that there are potential
problems with being
> lower than normal.

Probably because he isn't?

He even goes as far telling Mr. Dumas that his
> normal-range A1c is too high.

Mmmm I did? Please re-post the message where I said that, and
I'll apologise ot him.

While whatever Beavis does to himself is his
> own business, bear in mind that we would all be yelling
malpractice to a
> doctor who pushed for lower-than-normal results.

As indeed we would, but would we push if the same doctor advice
us to run IN the normal range?


>
> I think you should look at what is being said instead of merely
choosing
> sides based upon who you have shared a joke or two with.

I think you should do something very similar.

Beav


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:14:24 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C38ED7D...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >
> > You know, after all this "you must be low, you must be low, I
accept you
> > because you must be low", I wasn't thinking that it ws Jim's
*mouth* that
> > was open.
> >
> > Jim, have you considered less roughage in your diet?
>
> Hi Nico,
>
> I realize this is disruptive. But I'm trying to keep it
isolated to minimize
> the annoyance to others. If Beav wants to continue fighting, I
can do that
> as well. He has been given the option to stop and he refused.
So Beav
> hasn't gotten my message, to leave me alone, yet. This is
quite simple.
>
> Sorry to upset everyone, but I've been quite surgical about
this,

You're like a dog with a bone Jim. It's not ME who keeps starting
new inflammatory threads after all.

Beav


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:17:23 AM1/7/02
to

"Nico Kadel-Garcia" <nka...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:Q9b_7.2985$IP....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

I think that's a wonderful idea Nico, but I'm so hypoglycemic, I
probably won't remember where it is:)

Beav


Beavis

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Jan 7, 2002, 8:18:56 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C39135C...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

Clearly!

Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:25:10 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C38E04B...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Martin Boulger wrote:
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > Just a point, but my last blood test just indicated on the
Hba1c bit "ref <
> > 7 and whatever units mmols/l I suspect" It didn't actually
specify a lower
> > point to my knowledge. My Endo complained a bit when one of
my Hba1cs was
> > just under 7 and he was very happy at it being usually just
under 5. Don't
> > they call it the "under 5% club"?
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> You make a good point. My argument is based on the low normal
HbA1c value.
> In the DCCT, as an example, the normal range was based on a
mean of 5.1% and
> standard deviation of 0.5%. So the normal range was the mean
plus or minus
> two standard deviations that gives 4.1% to 6.1%. If I were
keeping my BG low
> and having an HbA1c of 4.2% (0.1% above the low end as Beav
seems to have),

Well you certainly seem to have a thing about me Jim, it's just a
pity that "thing" doesn't extent to your memory of things I said
or your ability to read (which shouldn't surprise me really). My
last 3 A1c, were ALL in the 5's. 5.1, 5.2 or 5.3. Where does 4.
anything come into this?

> I'd be out cold on the floor 24 hours a day and nearly brain
dead. But their
> does also seem to be an up-regulation of glycogen stores in
astrocytes in the
> brain that fuel neurons under hypoglycemic conditions. So in
theory, with
> long-term hypoglycemia, the brain stores a small amount of
extra glucose in
> astrocytes that surround neurons. So the brain "learns" how to
operate
> better (but not normally) when chronically hypoglycemic.

My brain can still work out the difference between "thier" and
"there". Maybe running bg's in the 400 ISN'T such a good idea
after all eh?


>
> In any case, since we seem to be using different assay methods
between the UK
> and the US, it's critical for us to know the low end of the
normal range in
> the lab. If Beav can prove the low end of the normal range for
his lab is
> 4.1%, (as in the old Bio-Rad manual HPLC assay method of the
DCCT), then I'd
> have to concede to Beav. He would have a large margin for
error and would
> probably not be flirting with hypoglycemia.

If I'm flirting with it, I've not causght it yet and it only took
10 minutes of my flirting to catch my wife of 26 years. I'm an
EXCELLENT flirter.

Now why son't you just forget I exist and get on with dispensing
your advice?

Beav


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:27:51 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C392353...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Marilyn \"McView\" wrote:
> >
> > Thanks. I knew that you knew that my intentions were good :)
>
> You're welcome,

And you're self centred enough to think Marilyn was responding to
you, when it's blatantly obvious she wasn't.


>
> Even though we've argued a lot in the past, I thought you
should know that I
> appreciated your perspectives and suggestions.

You're still off base, but your creeping is getting VERY slimy.
"Hi Mar, Hi Nico, Hi Dereck, Hi Paul, it's sickening.


>
> I also know how fiercely you fight, so I want you on my team!

Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.

Beav


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 8:31:05 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C39831B...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com...

> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > > So Beav, do you accept this modified conditional truce?
> >
> > I'll accept unconditional surrender and not a thing less.
>
> Dear Beav,
>
> I've decided to ask Groves' advice on this matter. Maybe he
can help,

He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's shown
that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is meaningless
and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start listening
to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in the
process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root of
it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.

I suggest you do the same. But why wait?

Beav


Beavis

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Jan 7, 2002, 8:34:33 AM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C392737...@deSPAMMERmindspring.com...

> Mack wrote:
> >
> > if your buddy Jim had been doing that people wouldn't have
the beiw of
> > him they have now. or is it just okay for Jim to do what you
condemn
> > in others?
>
> Hi Dereck,
>
> It's nice to see you're getting with the program, Derek. I
welcome your
> perspectives.
>
> IMO, I'm just fighting fire with fire.

No no Jim. You STARTED the fire and when it started to die out,
you started ANOTHER and another. You're obviously a very sad and
lonely hypergycemic man craving attention even to the point where
your self inflicted aggravation shoves your sugars into the
stratosphere, so I'll just let you get on with it.

I'm done with you.

Beav


Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 2:08:47 PM1/7/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.

Hi yet again Beav,

Put a cover over the piano, you'll be too upset to play it for awhile.

I have a whole series of events planned for you. Enjoy the ride,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 2:43:21 PM1/7/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's shown
> that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is meaningless
> and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start listening
> to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in the
> process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root of
> it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.
>
> I suggest you do the same. But why wait?

Hi Beav,

I thought that would break the deadlock. My goal is simply to use all tools
available to hammer out some sort of agreement with you. If this requires
increasing the chaos in mhd for a short period, then that's what it takes.
Since I know how to coexist with Groves, it will be a cake walk for me. But
for you, it will be a new level of turmoil to disrupt your life.

It should be quite clear that the sound board in your piano will soon crack,

Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 3:00:25 PM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C39F23F...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com...

> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > Now this one IS for you Jim. You're welcome.
>
> Hi yet again Beav,
>
> Put a cover over the piano, you'll be too upset to play it for
awhile.

You have a very inflated opinion of your powers Jimster.


>
> I have a whole series of events planned for you. Enjoy the
ride,

I can barely keep still in anticipation.


Beavis

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 3:07:23 PM1/7/02
to

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3C39FA59...@dontSPAMMEmindspring.com...

> Beavis wrote:
> >
> > He can run, but that's about it. He can't even drive. He's
shown
> > that trait already, so ANYTHING Groves has to say is
meaningless
> > and not worth the time it'd take to read. When I start
listening
> > to someone who's wrecked 3 cars and half crippled himself in
the
> > process and STILL didn't know it was hypoglycemia at the root
of
> > it, I'll think seriously about sticking my head in the oven.
> >
> > I suggest you do the same. But why wait?
>
> Hi Beav,
>
> I thought that would break the deadlock.

I'm sure you did, and considering you didn't even write the note
I responded too, that must make me as spooky as you. But only
almost.

My goal is simply to use all tools
> available to hammer out some sort of agreement with you.

Better get in touch with Norm Abrams then. You've not got enough.

If this requires
> increasing the chaos in mhd for a short period, then that's
what it takes.

What?? D'you think anyone but you gives a flying cack about you,
me, or this thread?

> Since I know how to coexist with Groves, it will be a cake walk
for me. But
> for you, it will be a new level of turmoil to disrupt your
life.

Hahaha. So you really DO know less than f**k all. I don't get
upset Jim, I get amused. Sometimes even VERY amused, but you're
not in that league. That takes someone like watchman the magnet.


>
> It should be quite clear that the sound board in your piano
will soon crack,

Not even a good analogy. Didn't even raise a grin, let alone a
smile. Go and do something about your hyper state and try again.
Eat a doughnut or something. Have coke. Read a book. (Ooops,
sorry!)

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 5:17:03 PM1/7/02
to
Beavis wrote:
>
> I'm done with you.

Dear Beav,

Noted.

I'm amending the truce again to include Dave Groves.

Is that OK with you?
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com (remove dontSPAMME)

Jim Dumas

unread,
Jan 7, 2002, 6:03:40 PM1/7/02