Where do I fit in?

[Antares 531]

I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon

---copy/paste from my OneTouch Ultra 2 meter data---
Sunday, March 4, 2012

6:16 AM 109 Before breakfast. Omelet w/ham, sausage, bacon &
cheddar. Cottage cheese on lettuce. Two biscuits w/gravy @ 6:25 AM.
6:47 AM 107 Before breakfast, second test.
7:15 AM 108 Before breakfast, third test.
7:45 AM 111 Before bkfst., fourth test. Bkfst. @ 7:52 - Scrambled
eggs w/green peppers, onions & bacon. Half of an orange. 1/2 of a
small bagel.
8:15 AM 127 After breakfast.
8:45 AM 151 One hour after breakfast.
9:15 AM 140 1.5 hours after breakfast.
9:46 AM 119 2 hours after breakfast.
10:15 AM 87 2.5 hours after breakfast.
10:45 AM 96 3 hours after breakfast.
11:16 AM 97 3.5 hours after breakfast.
11:45 AM 110 4 hours after breakfast. No snack - Don't know
what caused this spike.
12:16 PM 97 4.5 hours after breakfast.
12:47 PM 98 5 hours after breakfast.
1:15 PM 99 5.5 hours after breakfast. Lunch @ 1:20 - Stuffed
Pepper - turkey, onions, red & green peppers, tomatoes & tomato paste.
Spring salad.
1:46 PM 135 Half hour after lunch.
2:15 PM 136 1 hour after lunch.
2:45 PM 158 1.5 hours after lunch.
3:15 PM 132 2 hours after lunch.
3:46 PM 103 2.5 hours after lunch.
4:15 PM 109 3 hours after lunch.
4:45 PM 96 3.5 hours after lunch.
5:15 PM 99 4 hours after lunch.
5:45 PM 96 4.5 hours after lunch.
6:15 PM 97 Supper @ 6:30 PM - 12 oz. whole milk w/Almased.
6:45 PM 159 After supper.
6:54 PM 145 Second test for this spike. Was it the Almased or was
it the whole milk that caused this BG spike?
7:15 PM 128 Computer locked up and further testing was not done
this evening.

[Antares 531]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:38:08 -0600, Antares 531
<gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:

>I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
>pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
>these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
>to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
>Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon
>
>---copy/paste from my OneTouch Ultra 2 meter data---
>Sunday, March 4, 2012
>
>6:16 AM 109 Before breakfast. Omelet w/ham, sausage, bacon &
>cheddar. Cottage cheese on lettuce. Two biscuits w/gravy @ 6:25 AM.
>

My copy/paste process made an error here. The Omelet w/ham, sausage,
etc., listed above was not eaten on this morning. Somehow it got into
my computer's copy/paste setup and got copied to this line when it
didn't belong here. The only breakfast I ate was the one shown below.
I've made some other corrections/changes to make the data easier to
follow.

>
>6:47 AM 107 Before breakfast, second test.
>7:15 AM 108 Before breakfast, third test.
>7:45 AM 111 Before bkfst., fourth test.

>Breakafst. @ 7:52 - Scrambled eggs w/green peppers, onions & bacon. Half of an orange. 1/2 of a

>small bagel.
>8:15 AM 127 After breakfast.
>8:45 AM 151 One hour after breakfast.
>9:15 AM 140 1.5 hours after breakfast.
>9:46 AM 119 2 hours after breakfast.
>10:15 AM 87 2.5 hours after breakfast.
>10:45 AM 96 3 hours after breakfast.
>11:16 AM 97 3.5 hours after breakfast.
>11:45 AM 110 4 hours after breakfast. No snack - Don't know
>what caused this spike.
>12:16 PM 97 4.5 hours after breakfast.
>12:47 PM 98 5 hours after breakfast.
>1:15 PM 99 5.5 hours after breakfast.
>Lunch @ 1:20 - Stuffed Pepper - turkey, onions, red & green peppers, tomatoes & tomato paste.
>Spring salad.
>1:46 PM 135 Half hour after lunch.
>2:15 PM 136 1 hour after lunch.
>2:45 PM 158 1.5 hours after lunch.
>3:15 PM 132 2 hours after lunch.
>3:46 PM 103 2.5 hours after lunch.
>4:15 PM 109 3 hours after lunch.
>4:45 PM 96 3.5 hours after lunch.
>5:15 PM 99 4 hours after lunch.
>5:45 PM 96 4.5 hours after lunch.

>6:15 PM 97 5 hours after lunch.

[Julie Bove]

"Antares 531" <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:g5u9l75bk48n8dmm1...@4ax.com...

You're diabetic.

[Antares 531]

Could you fill me in a bit as to how you reach this conclusion. That
is, what are the accepted norms and upper BG limits that indicate one
has gravitated from pre-diabetic into full blown T2 diabetes. I find
so much conflicting information on this. I can't get it all sorted
out.

Gordon

[Julie Bove]

"Antares 531" <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:777al7ll66b90s83v...@4ax.com...

You are having numbers over 126. Therefore it is diabetes. But it doesn't
really matter now does it. Because the treatment for both things is the
same.

[willbill]

Mon, 5 Mar 2012 12:42:49 -0800, "Julie Bove" wrote:

> You are having numbers over 126. Therefore it is diabetes. But it doesn't
> really matter now does it. Because the treatment for both things is the
> same.

AFAIK, it's common for normal people to sometimes
briefly see a b/g result above 126 following a meal.

It is a *fasting* b/g over 126, upon getting up in the
morning, that is "the gold standard" indicator of
being diabetic.

Bill t1 since '57

[ray]

In his book "Diabetes Solution", Dr. Richard Bernstein says that a
healthy non-diabetic has a BG of 83+/-3 except possibly after a meal very
heavy in carbs. I tend to agree with him.

By that definition yes, you have diabetes. But I'm certainly not going to
argue with you about it. It's your life and your body and your decision
what you are going to do with it. I was diagnosed in 2005 - and since I
brought things under control a few months later, I have never had or
would I accept numbers like you're seeing.

IMHO - you should see your doc and work with him to control your diabetes.

[ray]

As far as I've been able to determine, "pre-diabetic" means: you have
diabetes but it's not bad enough yet that you must medicate - you may be
able to control it with diet and exercise". The 140's and up indicate, at
least to me, that you have a problem - but it's really, ultimately up to
you.

[Julie Bove]

"willbill" <post...@postonNG.net> wrote in message
news:ga9al7l03gv7eh0h6...@4ax.com...

That is not what I have been told. One of my Endos. said that normies do
not vary much from the 80's. My daughter has prediabetes. Her numbers have
gone up to the 90s. But never have been above that, food or no food. She
is usually in the 80's.

[Julie Bove]

"Susan" <su...@nothanks.org> wrote in message
news:9rkp8s...@mid.individual.net...
> x-no-archive: yes

>
>
>
> On 3/5/2012 3:48 PM, willbill wrote:
>
>> AFAIK, it's common for normal people to sometimes
>> briefly see a b/g result above 126 following a meal.
>>
>
>

> 126 is NOT diagnostic, except for fbg as you say. Over 200 is.

But we're not talking about diagnosing. He wants to know if he has pre or
diabetes.

[Ozlover]

Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
> I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
> pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
> these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
> to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
> Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon

You're halfway there. See

<http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/prevention/pre-diabetes/how-to-tell-if-you-have.html>

What' your HbA1c?

Anyway, as others have said, the treatment is the same, so it's better
to start now than wait.

[Halfway-there data deleted.]

--
Frank Slootweg

[Julie Bove]

"ray" <r...@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:9rkqro...@mid.individual.net...

That's not true at all! Many prediabtics are on Metformin.

[Ozlover]

Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On 3/5/2012 3:48 PM, willbill wrote:
>

> > AFAIK, it's common for normal people to sometimes
> > briefly see a b/g result above 126 following a meal.
>
>

> 126 is NOT diagnostic, except for fbg as you say. Over 200 is.

Yes, that's both correct and utterly irrelevant for the OP's OP.

But if sticking your (generic 'your') head in the sand is your thing,
then by all means go for it!

--
Frank Slootweg

[Antares 531]

On 5 Mar 2012 22:20:47 GMT, Ozlover <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

>Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>> I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
>> pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
>> these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
>> to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
>> Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon
>
> You're halfway there. See
>
><http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/prevention/pre-diabetes/how-to-tell-if-you-have.html>
>
> What' your HbA1c?
>

My last test was 5.8 but it was a lot higher than this when I first
got going with trying to bring my condition under control. Low carb
dieting and lots of exercise seems to work for me. Gordon

[Antares 531]

This is an area of confusion for me. It seems that the numbers for T1
and the numbers for T2 that indicate the state of development are
quite different.

I'm reading Dr. Bernstein's book, Diabetes Solutions, and hope to get
my understanding of some of these things cleared up a bit. Gordon

[Antares 531]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:48:12 -0600, willbill <post...@postonNG.net>
wrote:

This is where I "flunk the test" so to speak. My morning fasting
reading is sometimes way up in the 140s but this usually drops back to
the 90 to 110 range an hour or so after I get up in the morning, if I
haven't eaten anything, yet. If I have a high protein, low carb
breakfast my postprandial readings will be high for a couple of hours
then back down to the 90 to 110 range by mid-morning. Gordon

[Antares 531]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 18:46:38 -0500, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 3/5/2012 3:48 PM, willbill wrote:
>

>> It is a *fasting* b/g over 126, upon getting up in the
>> morning, that is "the gold standard" indicator of
>> being diabetic.
>

>fbg doesn't rise that high until most type 2s have been diabetic for
>many years. In fact, in one study, it failed to diagnose 70% of female
>diabetics and 48% of males.
>
>Post meal testing is far more informative.
>
>Susan
This is what I thought I understood but I'm still confused. Another
question...is there a cause-effect relationship between bowel function
and diabetes? I've noticed from my log book that any time my bowel
function is a bit sluggish or somewhat constipated I will have
unusually high BG readings. Does the high BG level cause the
constipation or does the constipation cause the high BG levels?

Gordon

[Julie Bove]

"Antares 531" <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:d4mal79cuksel5vr1...@4ax.com...

Maybe you have gastroparesis. I have it. If you have it you won't digest
your food properly. If the food sits in your system for too long, your BG
will be too high. And yes, it is a complication of diabetes.

[Antares 531]

This does seem to fit some of my digestive problems. Some days my
whole digestive system is up and running at a very healthy state but
other days I get borderline constipated and have humongous amounts of
flatus. I also belch a lot after eating, and while eating, sometimes.

How can I check this out and determine if it is one of my problems?

Gordon

[ray]

You may also find "Diabetes for Dummies" useful - I did.

[Julie Bove]

"Antares 531" <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:5aoal71qtefb3pcos...@4ax.com...

See a gastroenterologist.

[Antares 531]

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 09:44:57 -0500, Susan <su...@nothanks.org> wrote:

>x-no-archive: yes
>

>On 3/5/2012 7:24 PM, Antares 531 wrote:
>
>> This is what I thought I understood but I'm still confused. Another
>> question...is there a cause-effect relationship between bowel function
>> and diabetes? I've noticed from my log book that any time my bowel
>> function is a bit sluggish or somewhat constipated I will have
>> unusually high BG readings. Does the high BG level cause the
>> constipation or does the constipation cause the high BG levels?
>>
>

>Could be autonomic or endocrine.
>
>You should have, at least, a thorough endocrine workup, including
>pituitary and adrenal hormones. Is your bp highly variable, as well?
>
>Do you get intermittent or frequent foot and leg cramps?
>
>Susan
>
I do get leg cramps at night, sometimes, but they are usually not very
severe. They wake me up and I have to pull the other muscles that work
against the ones that are cramping. This usually stops the cramping in
a few seconds and I get through the rest of the night with no more
cramps.

I've had blood workups many times, as a routine part of my medical
care, but my doctor has always commented that everything looks very
good. The last time he said that I could pass for a 45 year old.

In general, I have no known health problems other than my diabetes and
perhaps some stomach/intestine anomaly such as gastroparesis. I really
don't think this is the problem though because I rarely feel stuffed
to the gills, so to speak. Also, I have never observed a low BG
reading in the 1-3 hour interval after a meal.

Any digestive system problems I have seem to be on down the tube a
bit, and maybe limited to the large intestines. It does feel stuffed
and lethargic from time to time. This runs in patterns. I feel fine
when my BM happens early in the day and is normal in all respects. But
the next day or two I will begin to get sluggish and my BM will be
somewhat constipated and either a partial evacuation or none at all
for a day or maybe two. Then when things catch up and I get another
thorough bowel evacuation I feel very good and robust for a day or
two, or sometimes more.

I used to eat fruit such as ripe pears to augment my bowel function,
but this kind of food really sends my BG reading up. In fact, any
fruit/vegetable with a good supply of roughage seems to have too many
carbs for me to handle easily.

I do, or did have high morning fasting BG readings, but since I
started taking Alpha Lipoic Acid capsules this has abated a lot.
Looking at the past three morning's FBG readings, they were 109, 100 &
111. I know this wouldn't be a good state for a 25 year old but, hey,
I'm not 25 years old...three times that, in fact, plus a couple of
years.

Gordon

[Ozlover]

Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2012 22:20:47 GMT, Ozlover <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >> I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
> >> pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
> >> these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
> >> to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
> >> Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon
> >
> > You're halfway there. See
> >
> ><http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/prevention/pre-diabetes/how-to-tell-if-you-have.html>
> >
> > What' your HbA1c?
> >
> My last test was 5.8 but it was a lot higher than this when I first
> got going with trying to bring my condition under control. Low carb
> dieting and lots of exercise seems to work for me. Gordon

If "a lot higher than this (5.8)" was 6.5 or higher, then you've
diabetes, i.e. not 'just' 'pre-diabetes'

> > Anyway, as others have said, the treatment is the same, so it's better
> >to start now than wait.
> >
> >[Halfway-there data deleted.]

--
Frank Slootweg

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:38:08 -0600, Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net>

wrote:

>I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
>pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
>these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
>to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
>Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon

Here are some of my recent ones:

20 Feb 2012 12:22 PM 7.7
18 Feb 2012 12:48 AM 5.0
17 Feb 2012 01:16 PM 4.1
16 Feb 2012 01:30 PM 5.2
15 Feb 2012 03:00 PM 11.4
9 Feb 2012 05:07 AM 4.6
8 Feb 2012 01:04 PM 5.4
6 Feb 2012 04:16 PM 6.8

Showed them to the doctor and he seemed quite happy with them, but I've been
taking Glucophage twice a day, and Glamaryl once a day.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Antares 531]

On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 01:01:32 +0000 (UTC), Joe <Joe...@noyb.org> wrote:

>Antares 531 <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote in
>news:v52al7lnmif5qu0c3...@4ax.com:

>
>> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:38:08 -0600, Antares 531
>> <gordonl...@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been taking lots of BG readings and trying to figure out if I'm
>>>pre-diabetic or full blown T2 diabetic. Would someone please look at
>>>these data and tell me where I fit in? I ate breakfast late yesterday
>>>to see if I do indeed have a "Dawn Effect" surge in my BG readings.
>>>Didn't seem evident, but who knows? Thanks, Gordon
>>>

>>>---copy/paste from my OneTouch Ultra 2 meter data---
>>>Sunday, March 4, 2012
>>>
>>>6:16 AM 109 Before breakfast. Omelet w/ham, sausage, bacon &
>>>cheddar. Cottage cheese on lettuce. Two biscuits w/gravy @ 6:25 AM.
>>>

>> My copy/paste process made an error here. The Omelet w/ham, sausage,
>> etc., listed above was not eaten on this morning. Somehow it got into
>> my computer's copy/paste setup and got copied to this line when it
>> didn't belong here. The only breakfast I ate was the one shown below.
>> I've made some other corrections/changes to make the data easier to
>> follow.

>>>
>>>6:47 AM 107 Before breakfast, second test.
>>>7:15 AM 108 Before breakfast, third test.
>>>7:45 AM 111 Before bkfst., fourth test.

>>>Breakafst. @ 7:52 - Scrambled eggs w/green peppers, onions & bacon.

>>>Half of an orange. 1/2 of a small bagel.
>>>8:15 AM 127 After breakfast.
>>>8:45 AM 151 One hour after breakfast.
>>>9:15 AM 140 1.5 hours after breakfast.
>>>9:46 AM 119 2 hours after breakfast.
>>>10:15 AM 87 2.5 hours after breakfast.
>>>10:45 AM 96 3 hours after breakfast.
>>>11:16 AM 97 3.5 hours after breakfast.
>>>11:45 AM 110 4 hours after breakfast. No snack - Don't know
>>>what caused this spike.
>>>12:16 PM 97 4.5 hours after breakfast.
>>>12:47 PM 98 5 hours after breakfast.
>>>1:15 PM 99 5.5 hours after breakfast.
>>>Lunch @ 1:20 - Stuffed Pepper - turkey, onions, red & green peppers,
>>>tomatoes & tomato paste. Spring salad.
>>>1:46 PM 135 Half hour after lunch.
>>>2:15 PM 136 1 hour after lunch.
>>>2:45 PM 158 1.5 hours after lunch.
>>>3:15 PM 132 2 hours after lunch.
>>>3:46 PM 103 2.5 hours after lunch.
>>>4:15 PM 109 3 hours after lunch.
>>>4:45 PM 96 3.5 hours after lunch.
>>>5:15 PM 99 4 hours after lunch.
>>>5:45 PM 96 4.5 hours after lunch.

>>>6:15 PM 97 5 hours after lunch.

>>>Supper @ 6:30 PM - 12 oz. whole milk w/Almased.
>>>6:45 PM 159 After supper.
>>>6:54 PM 145 Second test for this spike. Was it the Almased or
>>>was it the whole milk that caused this BG spike?
>>>7:15 PM 128 Computer locked up and further testing was not
>>>done this evening.
>

>I have less worse readings than you do and have been diagnosed as T2.
>Their are NO HARD FAST standards. Are you having clinical signs of
>diabetes? What are your other symptoms. From the numbers you have given,
>you're definitely T2 imo. I just read a study that states that organ
>damage begins with bg over 125. The standards are shifting downwards. Go
>by how you feel and your other symptoms. If you have no other symptoms
>just get more exercise and eat better. Otherwise start looking for meds
>to get your bg down. Any fbg over 100 is abnormal.
>
Other than a bit of numbness in my feet I have no organ or nerve
damage. That is my doctor didn't locate any symptoms of any such
damage.

A brief spike above 125 probably wouldn't cause any damage that could
not repair itself after the spike dropped back down, but an extended
stay above 125 might produce some irreversible damage. Don't know???

Gordon