Another "lights out" event

[Pro-Humanist FREELOVER]

- - -

So, at work, lunch break at 3:00. Put
my meal in the microwave, gave some
Novolog, meal ready, and when starting
to eat, well, don't know what happened,
as I awoke an hour later, strapped in a
gurney, being injected with some glucose-
raising substance, EMS on hand. Appar-
ently, prior to getting enough food in me,
I went unconscious at the dining table,
or lost so much cognizance that I have
no idea what transpired in the following
hour.

After they finished the glucose-dose, they
checked my glucose level, it was 163, they
helped me up, I ate lunch an hour late,
and about an hour later, checked the glu-
cose, it was 50. Eating glucose-raising sub-
stances, next test it was 64, ate a bananna,
and after my 3:10 or so shot ran out, tested
at 208. Right now, endeavoring to get the
glucose down, with 6 units of Novolog.

An hour after giving the 6 units of Novolog,
tested at 71.

- - -
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
C.ure I.nsulinitis A.ssociation
http://prohuman.net/cureinsulinitisassociation.htm
- - -

[John Williamson]

So next time, use 4 units and see what happens.

Learn the lesson your body is trying to teach you, stupid. Large amounts
of carb followed by large amounts of insulin cause a roller coaster
effect. Small amounts of carb and small amounts of insulin don't. Little
and often works for *all* diabetics, it's only non-diabetic people who
can binge on carbs.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Pro-Humanist FREELOVER]

- - -

In response to a poster whose sug-
gestion was that the 'right' amount
of insulin is an exact science, sug-
gesting that the amount I gave last
night was in excess of the 'right'
amount, my response is that the
amount of insulin I gave last night
got the glucose level down quickly,
and the glucose test upon awaken-
ing was 113, so my insulin guess
last night was about as close to
perfect as humanly possible.

As for lunch, yesterday, when I went
unconscious, for reasons unknown,
the insulin I gave kicked in quickly,
way prior to the 15 minutes the man-
ufacturer of the insulin supposes it
takes, and my glucose level, 60 when
I tested prior to going to lunch, plum-
meted so quickly I went unconscious
or lost so much cognizance that I was
unable to ingest enough to prevent
the dire and unwelcome event from
transpiring.

The smartest thing to do in the future,
CURE this f**king disease. Failing that,
those of us who've had Insulinitis for
far too long, stuck in insulin guessing
mode in perpetuity, with levels of
insulin guessing and unpredictability
far exceeding the levels mentioned
most often (in public discourse).

As for the 2nd smartest thing to do in
the future, come up with glucose-respon-
sive insulin or some other way of dealing
with glucose levels that comes much
closer (than the 1922 level of technology
we're currently stuck with to guess about
how much insulin is needed multiple times
per day, myself, 5-6 guesses per day,
typical, sometimes more) to the range
we were in prior to coming down with
the condition.

Eliminating the glucose from going too
low, with 'smart' insulin or with 'smart'
technology, that would be a life saver,
and is direly needed, so instead of calling
people with the disease stupid, you'd be
well-advised to acknowledge the facts
stipulated above, and to resist the temp-
tation to attack those who publicly acknow-
ledge that actual truth of the matter when
it comes to dealing with Insulinitis, a tread-
mill of unending risks and threats which ...

... looms ominously/continuously within
each of us, and from which (to-date) the
only possible escapes involve pancreas
transplants or islet cell transplants, rare
events available to only a tiny minority of
those of us who have Insulinitis, oft-times
only when someone is in dire straits and
the risk of the transplant is deemed to be
less than what is happening with insulin
injections or pumping, the transplant in
and of itself having high risks.

[John Williamson]

Pro-Humanist FREELOVER wrote:
> - - -
>
> In response to a poster whose sug-
> gestion was that the 'right' amount
> of insulin is an exact science, sug-
> gesting that the amount I gave last
> night was in excess of the 'right'
> amount, my response is that the
> amount of insulin I gave last night
> got the glucose level down quickly,
> and the glucose test upon awaken-
> ing was 113, so my insulin guess
> last night was about as close to
> perfect as humanly possible.
>

I do not and never have suggested that getting the right dose of insulin
is an exact science. I would, however, suggest that there is a problem
with your methods of working them out. The evidence you gave earlier
suggested that the dose you gave yourself after recovering from your
last collapse was too great, due to your BG level being (as you saw it)
too high, and the carb dose that you gave yourself to recover from the
subsequent low was made larger than necessary, so necessitating a larger
dose of insulin, and so on... In electronic or mechanical terms, it's a
classic positive feedback loop, and in electronics and mechanics, they
often end up with the destruction of the circuit.

You keep posting here that you become unconcious due to your BG levels
sometimes going too low after you inject insulin. You keep posting here
saying that you suffer regularly from BG levels that are too high. You
list large doses of insulin and large amounts of carbs in these posts.
Your body is trying to tell you something, listen to it.

Short of a cure, which is possible (By pancreatic transplant, which is
often done when a diabetic needs a kidney transplant), but has side
effects worse than the disease you currently suffer from, you need to
learn how to improve your control. They are also working on islet cell
transplants, and have been for long enough that I'll say don't hold your
breath waiting for them. The problem with islet cell transplants is that
the pores in the container need to be large enough to let the insulin
(which is a large molecule) out while not letting the antibodies (which
are relatively small) in, while letting other molecules such as glucose
and the hormones which control insulin creation flow freely. The
container also needs to be made of a substance which the body won't
attack as a foreign body.

I would suggest that you forget all you have learnt since your
diagnosis, and start again from scratch, in consultation with your
medical team. Others seem to manage their problem in a satisfactory
manner, what makes you different? Solve that conundrum, and you may
solve your BG problems.

[Pro-Humanist FREELOVER]

- - -

You presume far too much. How often
do people mention they've experienced
a glucose level too low or too high?

Tick-tick-tick-tick.

No, what you often hear, is the 'control'
myth.

Tick-tick-tick-tick.

Saying it (I'm "in control") doesn't make
it so. Asserting it doesn't make it so. Acting
as if it exists doesn't make it so. It's all a
game of pretense.

Control this, control that, control the other,
and it's all untrue. It's mythical.

No, what we have, listen closely here, is
insulin *GUESS*ing. We guess, we (those
of us who have submitted to the pinprick
bleed modality) check (and we have no
idea what direction the glucose is moving,
no way of knowing that, no way of knowing
how fast the glucose level is changing).

Aside-The small minority who use an expen-
sive Continuous Glucose Monitor, they have
that, at high cost, a cost beyond the financial
capability of most who have Insulinitis to be
able to afford.

When I tested at 60, I had no clue of what
direction the glucose level was going, or how
fast it was going there. When my insulin shot
kicked in much quicker than the stated 15
minutes, I had no earthly idea that was hap-
pening.

Control myth? Bury it. It's naught but myth,
untrue to its core.

We guess (about everything having to do
with glucose levels), we deal with, we live
(those of us who survive) with, we inject
(or pump) insulin, and in all of that, with
current technology, we risk death, with
every insulin decision we make.

That's the truth. And it's long past time that
those with Insulinitis actualize the truth of
the condition, so that support for the cure
(or much-improved treatments) will be max-
imized, so that the desperate nature of deal-
ing with Insulinitis constantly is no longer
kept as if it's a hidden dark secret, but
instead is openly acknowledged.

[John Williamson]

Pro-Humanist FREELOVER wrote:
> - - -
>
> You presume far too much. How often
> do people mention they've experienced
> a glucose level too low or too high?
>

Not as often as you. And when they do, it's not a constant problem, as
yours seems to be. I know a few injecting diabetics, and they all have
minor events from time to time. I took one young girl (Known to be a
type 1 diabetic) into hospital recently when she almost into a coma
induced by extremely high BG levels. She survived, luckily, although the
fact that her teachers didn't recognise the onset of a diabetic coma may
have killed her. They have now received better training in her
treatment, which will also help other diabetics at her school.

My ex-brother was having similar problems to yours, but his problems
went in cycles, and we found out after his death due to a hypoglycaemic
event that the fridge where he kept his insulin was defective, and his
insulin was losing potency rapidly, and he was compensating for this by
increasing his doses, and when he got a new batch of insulin, he went
hypo until he reduced the dose. Rinse and repeat, as they say, and after
a few years his kidneys failed and his eyesight was going. Maybe not
exactly the same problem as yours, but it had the same end result of
death related to his lack of control.

> Saying it (I'm "in control") doesn't make
> it so. Asserting it doesn't make it so. Acting
> as if it exists doesn't make it so. It's all a
> game of pretense.
>
> Control this, control that, control the other,
> and it's all untrue. It's mythical.
>

You seem to have given up all hope.

> No, what we have, listen closely here, is
> insulin *GUESS*ing. We guess, we (those
> of us who have submitted to the pinprick
> bleed modality) check (and we have no
> idea what direction the glucose is moving,
> no way of knowing that, no way of knowing
> how fast the glucose level is changing).
>

You can make the guess more accurate by paying attention to past
experience, which you seem to be ignoring,according to your posts.

If you want to talk about guessing, at work I make guesses all day
which, if made wrongly, could kill dozens of people. I don't kill dozens
of people because I make educated guesses as to what other road users
are about to do. Should I just give up and say "What the heck, if it's
going to go wrong, that's tough."?

> When I tested at 60, I had no clue of what
> direction the glucose level was going, or how
> fast it was going there. When my insulin shot
> kicked in much quicker than the stated 15
> minutes, I had no earthly idea that was hap-
> pening.
>

So wait a few minutes and do another test, then you'll know.

Or look at what you've done in the past hour or so and make an educated
guess.

> Control myth? Bury it. It's naught but myth,
> untrue to its core.
>

So, according to you, there is no possible way to control the BG level
of a type 1 diabetic. Lets all just give up now, then, shall we? Your
attitude is negative beyond all reason. Unfotunately, I have met others
with your negativity, so I don't find it beyond belief.

As an aside, are you aware that a lot of diabetics suffer from
depression, which is hard for the sufferer to recognise, may be part of
what is causing your attitude, and is treatable?

[Alan Mackenzie]

Pro-Humanist FREELOVER <proh...@cableone.net> wrote:

> - - -

> No, what you often hear, is the 'control'
> myth.

> Tick-tick-tick-tick.

> Saying it (I'm "in control") doesn't make
> it so. Asserting it doesn't make it so. Acting
> as if it exists doesn't make it so. It's all a
> game of pretense.

No, you're playing a word game with yourself, here. "Control" doesn't
mean totally 100% ideal BS, it means "by and large where you want to be,
with, at most, occasional outliers". It that sense, I'm controlled. It's
clear that you're not.

> Control this, control that, control the other,
> and it's all untrue. It's mythical.

See above

> No, what we have, listen closely here, is
> insulin *GUESS*ing. We guess, we (those
> of us who have submitted to the pinprick
> bleed modality) check (and we have no
> idea what direction the glucose is moving,
> no way of knowing that, no way of knowing
> how fast the glucose level is changing).

Yes, we guess. That is how we control.

> When I tested at 60, I had no clue of what
> direction the glucose level was going, or how
> fast it was going there. When my insulin shot
> kicked in much quicker than the stated 15
> minutes, I had no earthly idea that was hap-
> pening.

You test at 60, about to give yourself a jab, then why did you not pause
and consider the possibilities? They're not symmetrical - if your BS is
on the way down, you'll suffer from that injection. If it's on the way
up, nothing amiss will happen whatever you do. I suggest that in future,
you delay an injection till after a meal when you test so low. You're
using a super-fast analogue, remember, not true old-fashioned insulin.

> Control myth? Bury it. It's naught but myth,
> untrue to its core.

It's not a myth.

> We guess (about everything having to do
> with glucose levels), we deal with, we live
> (those of us who survive) with, we inject
> (or pump) insulin, and in all of that, with
> current technology, we risk death, with
> every insulin decision we make.

Only in the sense we risk death each time we cross a road.

> That's the truth. And it's long past time that
> those with Insulinitis actualize the truth of
> the condition, so that support for the cure
> (or much-improved treatments) will be max-
> imized, so that the desperate nature of deal-
> ing with Insulinitis constantly is no longer
> kept as if it's a hidden dark secret, but
> instead is openly acknowledged.

You are openly acknowledging your difficulties but others such as I, do
not share them. You would do better if you could accept your own actions,
something you can change, as part of your problem, rather than continually
being a victim - think: BS = 60, alarm bells should be ringing - that's why
you're doing a test.

> - - -
> Pro-Humanist FREELOVER

--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

[Jim Dumas]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 08:47:57 -0500, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER wrote:

> the insulin I gave kicked in quickly, way prior to the 15 minutes the
> man- ufacturer of the insulin supposes it
> takes, and my glucose level, 60 when
> I tested prior to going to lunch, plum- meted so quickly I went
> unconscious

Hi Pro,

I usually delay my dose when hypoglycemic before a meal. The intent is
to use the current meal to increase BG before taking insulin. These fast-
acting designer insulins will hit you too hard if already hypoglycemic.

So I would have dosed about a half hour to an hour after starting the
meal.

Interestingly, I had a scare two nights ago while watching the Olympics.
I was carbo-loading with a two serving pasta meal and I had no exercise
effects in progress. So I dosed my usual 22U as 4U Humalog and two 9U
human R (not mixed with Humalog) for a 156 mg/dl BG before dinner. I
didn't wait and just plowed into the food. Two hours later I was
watching one of the gold medalist women crying on the podium and I
started to cry. I thought this is unusual, so I checked BG. It was a 38
mg/dl and I have no explanation, other than my endogenous working to foil
my efforts. There were no other doses working, except the morning 14U
Ultralente.

With so much R working, I have to really stoke the furnace and hit the
kitchen for 3 bananas and some dried fruit. 3 hours later BG was 90 mg/
dl. So all that carbo-loading worked.

I suspect the 4U Humalog triggered hepatic enzymes or IGF-1. I usually
do not use Humalog after lunch, as it used to be ineffective for my
insulin resistance mechanisms for dinner and bedtime.

But the body is dynamic, so we should expect it to change.
--
Jim
Still kick'n! Low tech T1 4/86, no complications. T.75? 7/2011
Email mangled: change SeeSig2Fix to mindspring for utopia. (Where?)

[Jim Dumas]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2012 09:45:28 -0500, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER wrote:

> When I tested at 60, I had no clue of what direction the glucose level
> was going, or how fast it was going there. When my insulin shot kicked
> in much quicker than the stated 15 minutes, I had no earthly idea that
> was hap- pening.

Long, long ago, I took a shower and then dosed human R for a birthday
party and promptly hit the floor. My family freaked out but helped me
with glucose products. It turned out that I bled at the injection site
because the skin was so warm (vasodilation, the little capillaries in the
skin were hot) from the shower. (Needless to say, I never dose right
after a shower these days.)

In my math model these days, I ask the question "Did you bleed at the
injection site?" and if so then a guess of what percentage of the dose
went IV. It is usually 5-10% before the vessel seals. This 5-10% is
moved into the plasma compartment (versus the subcutaneous space where it
is slowly absorbed into the capillaries) where it quickly gets to the
target cells (mostly used by the liver). Thereby forcing BG lower
quickly.

If you were already hypoglycemic, your skin was warmer than usual. So
did you hit a blood vessel or capillary bed where you injected?

This happens about once a month to me with these small dia. needles.

["pill popper"]

Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution

http://www.diabetes-book.com/

Near the top is info how to sign up for a free conference call. You can
ask questions about the roller coaster effect from which you suffer.

Chapters of his book are also there to read.

["pill popper"]

Do a youtube search using:

Dr. Richard Bernstein (Part

That will bring up a multiple part presentation about the science behind
his approach to treating diabetes.

[Pro-Humanist FREELOVER]

"Jim Dumas" <j-d...@SeeSig2Fix.com> wrote...

Well, the recent event, the first time
ever (that I can recall) that an insulin
dose kicked in so strongly prior to
15 minutes passing, causing an un-
consciousness / loss of cognizance
event before I could eat, but as we
know, when it comes to these events,
our memories are adversely impacted,
so I can't be certain that such an event
has never happened. I can be certain
I can't recall such an event happening
in this way.

Yesterday, tested 64 before lunch,
and immediately ingested 10 carbs,
and while my meal was heating up in
the microwave, ate a bananna imme-
diately after giving a shot of Novolog.

I think your advice, delaying the insulin
shot, is well-advised, based on my
recent experience, and I'll do so in the
future when hypo prior to meals.

> --
> Jim
> Still kick'n! Low tech T1 4/86, no complications. T.75? 7/2011
> Email mangled: change SeeSig2Fix to mindspring for utopia. (Where?)