Diabetic? Need to Lose Weight but not Diet? Check this

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frankie

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Sep 1, 2002, 9:30:55 PM9/1/02
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m1carbine

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Sep 1, 2002, 10:53:27 PM9/1/02
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more metabolife snake oil

--
http://www.geocities.com/erictlewis/myhomepage.html

Remove the BG in front of BGeric...@msn.com to reply in email form.

Eric Type II diagnosed 7/2002.

"frankie" <frankie...@ureach.com> wrote in message
news:755a7876.02090...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.geocities.com/frankieguy2000/EatandBurnFat.html


Michel

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Sep 2, 2002, 2:25:18 PM9/2/02
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Just to let everyone know, as I'm sitting here I am
getting a steady stream of E-mail notifications
on my screen for every time Dave Groves sends me
another of his diatribes.

It's all because I bought out of his cult on beef
insulin, a cult that believes that Lilly is out
to get Dave personally.

How about his rants that I'm a Lilly plant?
If Lilly were paying everyone he calls that,
they would soon run out of money.

It's now just a question of how long it will take
those guys with their big nets to come along and
scrape him up.

Paranoia runs deep...

Michel

(In this day and age, paranoia is the most common diagnosis
among the mentally deranged living in institutions.
Just a factoid)

Jim Dumas

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Sep 2, 2002, 6:05:42 PM9/2/02
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Hi Michel,

I no longer receive Dave's litany on beef. I think he's lost my email
address and phone numbers. So I think he's having health problems.

Two of us DIF members have tried to verify his claims that Lilly is
attacking his web site. Both of us have not been able to find any evidence
that he is being clobbered by any network intruder/hacker. So we are
concerned about him.

I personally think technology has rolled-over Dave and he does not have
enough network knowledge to sysadmin his LAN. So I think he clobbers
himself, by changing IP addresses for example, then blames Lilly for his
print server failure. So I apologize to Lilly, as we other DIF members
think Dave is wrong with his paranoid claims of network attack by Lilly
hackers.

AF the future of DIF, we are thinking about doing other things, like
separate SBIR work. So there is a movement to turn everything over to Dave
Groves concerning DIF, and he can run the show in unity. So DIF may quietly
disintegrate this fall.

Paranoia is a wonderful thing to waste,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com, still DIF VP of PR
T1 4/86, background retinopathy, rarely hypoglycemic: <1/mo.
lispro+R+U+NPH daily, moderate exercise, typically <6% HbA1c
Glucose Transform info at http://j-dumas.home.mindspring.com

Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 2, 2002, 8:12:48 PM9/2/02
to
cc'd by email
well, I am sure glad not to have heard from him for a long time.

BUT I AM a PAID Lilly stooge. Two years ago at christmass, they sent me
a coffee mug ! It was in recognition for concealing the facts that they
......
Oh well.

On a serious note, it is a shame that the legitimate concerns about
insulin are lost in the sound and fury of the DG's

Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 2, 2002, 8:14:25 PM9/2/02
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frankie wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/asshole/EatandGetscrewed.html

Take you7r snake oil and shove it Frankie

Jim Dumas

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Sep 2, 2002, 10:47:48 PM9/2/02
to
Ted Rosenberg wrote:
>
> cc'd by email
> well, I am sure glad not to have heard from him for a long time.

Hi Ted,

Me too. I set up a special filter for him alone so I could look when I had
the time. One thing he fails to accept is the world doesn't have to listen
to him. Years ago, I tried to get him to understand that people could just
turn him off and move on with their lives. But this concept fell on deaf
ears. When we would politely disagree with him, he blows a fuse and
leaves. Then we get some work done. But this gets old fast.


> BUT I AM a PAID Lilly stooge. Two years ago at christmass, they sent me
> a coffee mug ! It was in recognition for concealing the facts that they
> ......
> Oh well.

Yeah! I'll soon be one too I suspect. This impending disengagement will be
interesting and tricky. It will surely tax my people skills.


> On a serious note, it is a shame that the legitimate concerns about
> insulin are lost in the sound and fury of the DG's

I still believe in providing choice of insulin species to the patient. But
Dave demands beef be placed back on the pharmacy shelves. This is
unrealistic in a market driven economy. (And Dave is a banker, so he should
know this.) I think Groves has been quite successful at getting the USDA
and FDA to bend the rules on beef importation as it stands now. So he
should declare victory and move on to other more pressing issues. But he
refuses so we've become ineffective and fragmented.

I also still think we DMs need some AARP-like organization to give us a
political voice. But I'm not sure how to fund such an organization. If we
could align ourselves with the AARP and vote as a block on health-care
issues, we might get some attention. But this takes organization.

I'll stay friends with Dave. But will not try to work with him again,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com

Jim Dumas

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Sep 2, 2002, 10:58:03 PM9/2/02
to
Gary Ennis wrote:
>
> It is good to see at least some of you have finally come to your
> senses. Now if you can only rebuild your creditability, you may
> actually be able to accomplish something!
>
> Good luck, you will need it to overcome your past relationships. Not
> that I didn't try to warn ya' all a long time ago!!!!!!

Dear Gary,

Thanks for your insight and understanding.

Since I apologized to Lilly, I should also apologize to you. I no longer
think you're working for Lilly. Therefore your interest in Groves must be
excessively vindictive. I hope you'll move on.

So I apologize for any suggestion that you're working for Lilly,
--
Jim Dumas, j-d...@mindspring.com

Michel

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Sep 3, 2002, 12:06:57 PM9/3/02
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On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Gary Ennis wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Jan 1970 01:59:59, Michel <h...@cts.com> wrote:
>
> > Michel
> >
> > (In this day and age, paranoia is the most common diagnosis
> > among the mentally deranged living in institutions.
> > Just a factoid)
> >
>

> So would you explain to us one more time why you feel the need to
> carry your .45 automatic to protect yourself from the "harness bulls"
> (officers in uniform) when you carry your "insulin equipment"??????
>
> Gary
>
> AKA Skinny Ennis
>

Dear Skinny, old pal...

You didn't seem to grasp the logic of my original statement.

It was in contrapositive form.

What I was saying was that IF I took up carrying around what legally
amounts to drug paraphenalia, I would have to tote a .45 for
protection. I never do that, so that is my I leave that stuff
at home.

It was very gratifying to switch to human insulin and still stay
on one shot per day. I didn't think that such was even possible,
and I doubt that there are many Type 1 diabetics who are doing that,
although I can now assure everyone that just about anyone who
has enough discipline to control the quality and quantity of
what goes in their mouth can do it.


Michel

>
>


Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 3, 2002, 3:34:51 PM9/3/02
to
Michel - I think you have a reality problem. It is perfectly legal to
carry syringes and insulin around. Many of us do it ALL the time. I go
through security checkpoints and hand my syringes to the cop on duty -
who hands them back after I go through the sensor. I go on trains
planes, boats, and buses. I have crossed many a state and national
border. I don't know ANYONE who has EVER had a problem. Despite
popular belief, you can get syringes, legally, WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION
in almost all states. I have bought syringes and Insulin, without a
prescription, in many states. I go in and out of airports, courthouses,
City Halls, State and federal agencies. I USED to have a 1" nailfile on
my keyring - THAT they gave me grief about, but never syringes, lancets,
test kits, etc.

willbill

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Sep 3, 2002, 6:03:08 PM9/3/02
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9/3/2002 16:56:06 GMT, ga...@xxx.netgee.com (Gary Ennis) wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Sep 3902 22:58:03, Jim Dumas
> <j-d...@deSPAMALATORmindspring.com> wrote:

>> I no longer think you're working for Lilly.

> Interesting conclusion, but incorrect. My "interest in Grove"
> is only to point out the harm he and his ilk are potentially
> doing. So others don't blindly follow...

>> Therefore your interest in Groves must be
>> excessively vindictive. I hope you'll move on.

> My life is / was not wrapped up in DIF.


agreed that you are not involved with DIF

but jimmy's point of "excessively vindictive" is well taken.
for one thing, you clearly spend a lot more time at groves'
web site than either jimmy or me. for another, any time
there's a thread where groves' name show up, there's a high
probability that you'll post there

sure looks "excessively vindictive" to me

i agree with jimmy, i hope you'll move on


bill t1 since '57

Jim Dumas

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Sep 4, 2002, 12:16:22 AM9/4/02
to
Gary Ennis wrote:
>
> We all have to go somewhere!!!!!!

Hmmm.

This statement cries to me for a response. So I just have one thing to say
about it.

!!!!!! (OK, a few more for clarity.) !!!!!!

willbill

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Sep 4, 2002, 7:23:31 PM9/4/02
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9/4/2002 00:45:16 GMT, ga...@xxx.netgee.com (Gary Ennis) wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Sep 3902 17:03:08, willbill <NOm...@netzero.net> wrote:

>> but jimmy's point of "excessively vindictive" is well taken.

>> ...any time there's a thread where groves' name show up,

>> there's a high probability that you'll post there


> Actually the only reason this caught my eye...


never confuse action with movement


bill

RAE BIVIN

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Sep 6, 2002, 1:48:22 AM9/6/02
to
Ted, I'm glad that you've had such great luck while traveling. Most of the
time, I travel easily with syringes, however, I missed my flight, and had to
store syringes in my checked luggage on a flight one time. One time was
enough for me, so now I carry an RX from my doctor so that I can bring my
syringes with me on the actual flight. Maybe I fly more than others, and
the odds were against me (I do fly a lot), or maybe I just have bad luck.
In either case, I thought I'd mention that it can happen, it DID happen, and
I missed a flight because of it. Let me mention, however, this was several
months ago and I've not had trouble since then. The airlines have told me
to just tell everyone at every point that I have them, and that the flight
attendant may be allowed to hold them for me during the flight (which of
course is fine with me). Anyway, MY story . . . Have a good day! Rae


"Ted Rosenberg" <TedRos...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:al32sq$1n191l$1...@ID-144226.news.dfncis.de...

Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 6, 2002, 10:44:06 AM9/6/02
to
Thanks for telling us about the flight - Michael was talking about
carrying on the STREET, not air.

I don't fly that much any more, but, do go through LOTS of varied
security checkpoints. Until now, I have only heard of some problems
with British Air, and none of that since about December. Many people
CALL the airlines, and get lots of misinformation. Most people don't
have problems - The worst I have ever had is a stern warning not to
put used syringes in the trash - I said I would simply carry them out.

What airline and/or airport did you have problems at ??

I might note that your profile IS important. I am a blue eyed Santa
Claus, and never have problems. My brother, who has brown eyes, was
searched EVERY TIME he took an international flight until he was about
30 - since then he is searched much less often. I also have United Air
Red Carpet Life Member tags on all my stuff, including carry on.

RAE BIVIN

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Sep 13, 2002, 2:33:22 AM9/13/02
to
Ted, Hmm, my profile, as much as I would like to disagree with you, as I
usually do (but mostly because you're an ass and have bizarre ideas and even
more odd ways of articulating them), this is the only thing you've said that
is on track. I believe there is profiling. However, I am a light-eyed
blonde business professional. And as for Michael talking about carrying on
the street, it was YOU I was addressing and you specifically mentioned
"never" having problems on flights (and on the other list, if you remember):

This is what you, Ted Rosenberg, said: I go on trains planes, boats, and


buses. I have crossed many a state and national border. I don't know
ANYONE who has EVER had a problem. Despite popular belief, you can get
syringes, legally, WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION in almost all states. I have
bought syringes and Insulin, without a prescription, in many states. I go
in and out of airports, courthouses,
City Halls, State and federal agencies. I USED to have a 1" nailfile on
my keyring - THAT they gave me grief about, but never syringes, lancets,
test kits, etc.

Me, I always fly Delta, US Air, and America West (mostly AWA), and that time
was AWA at LAX. Other airports that have NOT had any problem with me,
Philadelphia, NYC (both), Ft Lauderdale, Phoenix, Chicago, Long Beach (CA),
Las Vegas, San Diego, Houston, Rome, etc. etc. Most of the time I don't
have problems, either, but I just stated a fact. I missed a flight because
of an overzealous ticket agent andI thinkit's naive to think another
diabetic will NEVER have a problem. Just carry an RX for flights and you'll
be fine,but the one time you don't, you'll get stopped. :)

Other important points,coming from a frequent traveler, you can get Regular
insulin legally without an RX, but not NPH or Humalog, or so I've been told
by doctors and pharmacies. My luggage was lost going to Philadelphia one
time and my 2 needles started to dull after a few days, but the pharmacy
would not give me needles without an RX transfer (even though I had the
whole diabetic kit with me, always kept in my purse). Luckily, a friend's
friend owned a neighborhood pharmacy in lovely South Philadelphia and I
eventually got a pack of ten to last me.

Just be prepared! :)

"Ted Rosenberg" <TedRos...@iname.com> wrote in message

news:alaevn$1on1t0$1...@ID-144226.news.dfncis.de...

Nico Kadel-Garcia

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Sep 13, 2002, 8:35:17 AM9/13/02
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"RAE BIVIN" <rae....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:SEfg9.6850$fG2....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...


> This is what you, Ted Rosenberg, said: I go on trains planes, boats, and
> buses. I have crossed many a state and national border. I don't know
> ANYONE who has EVER had a problem. Despite popular belief, you can get
> syringes, legally, WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION in almost all states. I have
> bought syringes and Insulin, without a prescription, in many states. I go
> in and out of airports, courthouses,

Syringes require prescriptions in many, if not most states.

Humalog is prescription due to its speed of action: older insulins are not.
Are there other restricted fast-acting insulins?


Beth Peace

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Sep 13, 2002, 1:24:18 PM9/13/02
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> Syringes require prescriptions in many, if not most states.

Actually, very few states (and countries, apparently) require prescriptions.
However, insurance companies require them if you want reimbursement.

http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/d_09_700.htm (last updated in June of this
year)

Beth


Ronnie Ruff

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Sep 13, 2002, 5:23:15 PM9/13/02
to
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 02:33:22 -0400, RAE BIVIN wrote:

> Ted, Hmm, my profile, as much as I would like to disagree with you, as I
> usually do (but mostly because you're an ass and have bizarre ideas and
> even more odd ways of articulating them), this is the only thing you've
> said that is on track.

Are you going to post anything about diabetes? And you call Ted the troll
(chuckle)

--
Ronnie Ruff

skippin' stones, we know the price now. Any sin will do
how much further, if you can spin?
how much further, if you are smooth? -indigo girls-

matt weber

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Sep 13, 2002, 10:09:31 PM9/13/02
to
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 12:35:17 GMT, "Nico Kadel-Garcia"
<nka...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:

>
>"RAE BIVIN" <rae....@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:SEfg9.6850$fG2....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
>
>
>> This is what you, Ted Rosenberg, said: I go on trains planes, boats, and
>> buses. I have crossed many a state and national border. I don't know
>> ANYONE who has EVER had a problem. Despite popular belief, you can get
>> syringes, legally, WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION in almost all states. I have
>> bought syringes and Insulin, without a prescription, in many states. I go
>> in and out of airports, courthouses,
>
>Syringes require prescriptions in many, if not most states.

Yes, but that is state law. The FDA says over the counter.


>
>Humalog is prescription due to its speed of action: older insulins are not.
>Are there other restricted fast-acting insulins?

All insulin analogs, and all U500 formulations are prescription
Novolog and Lantus are analogs, Humulin U500 is a prescription as is
Ilentin II U500.

For a complete listing go to

http://www.fda.gov/cder/ob/docs/queryai.htm

type in insulin, and hit the search radio button
>

Nico Kadel-Garcia

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Sep 13, 2002, 11:50:50 PM9/13/02
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"Beth Peace" <bethfu...@nc.rr.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:6bpg9.19208$ip3.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...

Huh. Didn't realize it ws so few. Unfortunately, I live in Boston....


Big Nascar Fan

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Sep 14, 2002, 10:57:50 PM9/14/02
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Well that explains everything! No wonder one canna not discern you from
Teddy and Ronnie? Give Uncle Teddy a hug.

Nico Kadel-Garcia

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Sep 15, 2002, 10:28:26 AM9/15/02
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"Big Nascar Fan" <nascarNO...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3D83F72D...@att.net...

??? Ronnie?

Don't get me going on the Kennedy's.....


Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 16, 2002, 11:32:38 PM9/16/02
to
More urban myths passed on.

You do not need a scrip for NPH - you DO for Humalog. Humalog is NOT
Insulin. It is an Insulin Analog.

Many pharmacies will not sell you more than 10 syringes unless they know
you.

Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 16, 2002, 11:35:20 PM9/16/02
to
Nico has this problem, he is long on statements, but short on accuracy.
MOST of the factoids he comes up with on medicine, genetics,
economics, etc. are wrong. I ASSUME he knows something about computers,
but he has this need to use obsolete definitions for some terms.

Ted Rosenberg

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Sep 16, 2002, 11:37:39 PM9/16/02
to
you got me there. I didn't know that the U500 was available at all. I
assume that you are probably correct that it is scrip.

Frank Schindler

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Sep 17, 2002, 12:06:49 AM9/17/02
to

>Ted, I'm glad that you've had such great luck while traveling. Most of the
>time, I travel easily with syringes, however, I missed my flight, and had to
>store syringes in my checked luggage on a flight one time. One time was
>enough for me, so now I carry an RX from my doctor so that I can bring my
>syringes with me on the actual flight. Maybe I fly more than others, and
>the odds were against me (I do fly a lot), or maybe I just have bad luck.
>In either case, I thought I'd mention that it can happen, it DID happen, and
>I missed a flight because of it. Let me mention, however, this was several
>months ago and I've not had trouble since then. The airlines have told me
>to just tell everyone at every point that I have them, and that the flight
>attendant may be allowed to hold them for me during the flight (which of
>course is fine with me). Anyway, MY story . . . Have a good day! Rae

For the record, here's my experience.

My endo wrote me a quick letter stating I was diabetic and thus needed
to carry syringes yadda yadda yadda for when I travelled. I didn't
ask her to - she just did this back when I was first diagnosed and
advised me to keep it with my passport. Since then, I've had to
produce this letter twice while entering Washington State through the
Peace Arch border crossing from British Columbia (out of about 150
crossings) and once on an international flight.

Both times at the Peace Arch, I had been picked for a routine search,
and they asked me if they were going to find any syringes or other
drug paraphernalia. I said yes and told them why, they asked if I had
a note or a prescription with me, I said yes, and I was done. Both
times, however, I suspect that I could just as easily have shown them
my insulin, my glucometer, or even the tips of my fingers (full of
holes) and they probably would have believed me - they seemed pretty
laid back about it. I don't think they were concerned with the
legality of my possessing syringes so much as the fact that they might
be letting a heroin junkie into their country.

I further once had to produce the letter while entering Germany at the
Frankfurt airport, but I'm pretty sure the agent taking it didn't even
read English. He unfolded it for about a half second and then gave it
back to me. Presumably he saw that it was probably something from a
doctor and that was good enough for him.

I've never had a problem getting on flights, but I really don't fly
much. Literally 3 times that I can count in the past 7 years. I've
always just had the syringes in my carry-on and never told them. I've
just assumed that they've scanned the luggage for weapons, not found
any, and moved on - never really gave any thought as to whether they
would take issue with syringes.

I guess in short I've been "caught" carrying syringes three times and
used the letter to make a non-issue out of them. But doubt I would
have had a problem without the letter. Maybe a delay, but that's
about it.

- Frank

matt weber

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Sep 17, 2002, 10:10:52 PM9/17/02
to
On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:37:39 -0400, Ted Rosenberg
<TedRos...@iname.com> wrote:

>you got me there. I didn't know that the U500 was available at all. I
>assume that you are probably correct that it is scrip.

There are actually two flavors of U500 available.
U500 is a rare creature, and the need for it has just about
disappeared.

It was needed because animal source insulins had a higher propensity
for creating an immune response then does Human. Higher doesn't mean
it is common. Fortunately it is pretty rare, but the consequences
tended to be very unpleasant. People with high immune titers for
insulins are often walking around with literally millions (and the
word is indeed millions) of units tied up in immune complexes...

The change to human insulin has substantially reduced the incidence of
immune response to insulin, and with that most (but not all) of the
need for U500 has gone away.


The best source of information on the status of drugs in the USA is
what is called the Orange book. The FDA has an online version.
go to http://www.fda.gov/cder/ob/docs/queryai.htm

and fill in the blanks.

These are the prescription insulins... Note the last two are U500's.
I actually have a vial of U500, it is 20ml... It's expired, but it is
a collectors item of sorts...

Appl
No TE Code RLD Active
Ingredient Dosage Form;
Route Strength Proprietary
Name Applicant
020986 Yes INSULIN ASPART Injectable; Subcutaneous 100 UNITS/ML
NOVOLOG NOVO NORDISK
021172 Yes INSULIN ASPART; INSULIN ASPART PROTAMINE Injectable;
Subcutaneous 30 UNITS/ML;70 UNITS/ML NOVOLOG MIX 70/30 NOVO NORDISK
021081 Yes INSULIN GLARGINE Injectable; Injection 100 UNITS/ML
LANTUS AVENTIS PHARMS
020563 Yes INSULIN LISPRO Injectable; Injection 100 UNITS/ML
HUMALOG LILLY
020563 Yes INSULIN LISPRO Injectable; Injection 100 UNITS/ML
HUMALOG PEN LILLY
021017 Yes INSULIN LISPRO; INSULIN LISPRO PROTAMINE Injectable;
Injection 25 UNITS/ML;75 UNITS/ML HUMALOG MIX 75/25 LILLY
021018 Yes INSULIN LISPRO; INSULIN LISPRO PROTAMINE Injectable;
Injection 50 UNITS/ML;50 UNITS/ML HUMALOG MIX 50/50 LILLY
018344 Yes INSULIN PURIFIED PORK Injectable; Injection 500
UNITS/ML ILETIN II LILLY
018780 Yes INSULIN RECOMBINANT HUMAN Injectable; Injection 500
UNITS/ML HUMULIN R LILLY

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