The Fauci Files
fred
Dr. Anthony Fauci, M.D. has led the government response to AIDS
as the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious
Diseases (NIAID). Fauci has played a direct hand in establishing
research priorities and many are painfully aware that Fauci’s
judgement has determined the direction of AIDS research. The
unthinkable: what if Fauci’s judgement was for sale?
The “smoking gun” arrives in the form of an approved U.S. patent,
number 5,696,079, which was granted on December 9, 1997 (just
over 3 months ago). However, the patent was filed on May 26, 1995.
Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of AIDS clinical trials
involving IL-2. Fauci’s fellow patent holder, Clifford Lane, is
NIAID’s Clinical Director. Years of IL-2 trials have been
conducted with, at best, highly questionable and ambiguous
results. People have died in the IL-2 human experiments -- as well
as the “compassionate use” experiments by the AIDS doctors. Nobody
has been willing to talk about the IL-2 cancer deaths. Anything
goes!
The proof is indisputable. The scandal of corrupting influences
and conflicts of interest at the highest level of government AIDS
research is an outrage that compromises the fundamental integrity
and credibilty of the standard of care “antiviral treatments” that
began to emerge from the National Cancer Institute more than a
decade ago.
See for yourself:
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=5696079
There is much, much more ... stay tuned.
fred
=========================================
U.S. Patent Office
5696079 : Immunologic enhancement with intermittent
interleukin-2 therapy
INVENTORS: Lane; H. Clifford, Bethesda, MD
Kovacs; Joseph A., Potomac, MD
Fauci; Anthony S., Washington, DC
ASSIGNEES: The United States of America as represented by
the Department of Health and Human Services,
Washington, DC
ISSUED: Dec. 9 , 1997
FILED: May 26, 1995
SERIAL NUMBER: 452440
MAINT. STATUS:
INTL. CLASS (Ed. 6): A61K 038/20;
U.S. CLASS: 514/002; 514/044; 530/350; 536/023.1; 536/023.5;
424/085.4; 424/085.5; 435/007.1; 435/069.1; 435/252.3; 435/320.1;
FIELD OF SEARCH:435-7.1,69.1,252.3,320.1 ; 536-23.1,23.5 ;
530-350 ; 514-44,2 ; 424-85.4,85.5 ;
ABSTRACT: A method for activating a mammalian immune system
entails a series of IL-2 administrations that are effected
intermittently over an extended period. Each administration of IL-
2 is sufficient to allow spontaneous DNA synthesis in peripheral
blood or lymph node cells of the patient to increase and peak, and
each subsequent administration follows the preceding
administration in the series by a period of time that is
sufficient to allow IL-2 receptor expression in peripheral or
lymph node blood of the patient to increase, peak and then
decrease to 50% of peak value. This intermittent IL-2 therapy can
be combined with another therapy which targets a specific disease
state, such as an anti-retroviral therapy comprising, for example,
the administration of AZT, ddI or interferon alpha. In addition,
IL-2 administration can be employed to facilitate in situ
transduction of T cells in the context of gene therapy. By this
approach the cells are first activated in vivo via the
aforementioned IL-2 therapy, and transduction then is effected by
delivering a genetically engineered retrovital vector directly to
the patient.
U.S. REFERENCES: (No patents reference this one)
Patent Inventor Issued Title
4863730 Karpas 9 /1989 Immunotherapy for AIDS patients
4868157 Durette 9 /1989 Dipeptidyl 2-amino-1,2-dideoxy-
D-glucose derivatives as
host resistance enhancers in
AIDS-immunocompromised hosts
and methods of use
5026687 Yarchoan et al. 6 /1991 Treatment of human retroviral
infections with 2',3'-
dideoxyinosine alone and in
combination with other
antiviral compounds
5419900 Lane et al. 5 /1995 Immunologic enhancement with
intermittent interleukin-2
therapy
EXEMPLARY CLAIM(s): Show all 13 claims
What is claimed is:
1. A method for activating the immune system of patient,
comprising the step of administering an amount of IL-2 to said
patient that is sufficient to increase the CD4 count in said
patient, wherein
(A) said IL-2 is administered in a series of administrations
effected intermittently, each of said administrations being
continuous over a period of time that is sufficient to achieve
an IL-2-induced increase in DNA synthesis in peripheral blood
or lymph node cells of said patient, and
(B) each subsequent administration follows the preceding
administration in said series by a period of time that is
sufficient to allow IL-2 receptor expression in peripheral
blood or lymph node cells of said patient to increase, peak and
then decrease to 50% of peak value.
RELATED U.S. APPLICATIONS:
Patent No. Appl No. Issue Date
5419900 63315
Work relating to this invention was supported in part with federal
funds under contract number N01-AI-05058 from the National
Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID), National
Institutes of Health.
FOREIGN APPLICATION PRIORITY DATA:
OTHER REFERENCES:
Piscitelli et al. (1994) Abstr. 34th. ICAAC 34:83.
Kovacs et al. (1993a) IXth Int. Conf. on AIDS 639P.
Kovacs et al. (1993b) Abstr. 33rd. ICAAC 33:328.
Smith (1988) Science 240:1165-1176.
Lane et al. (1985) Ann. Int. Med. 103:714-718.
Kovacs et al. (1995) N. Engl. J. Med. 332:567-575.
P.C. Kohler et al., "Enhanced In vivo Generation of LAK Cells
by Repetitive Administration
of IL-2, a Phase 1 Clinical Study", Immunology and Cytokines,
Proc. of ASCO, vol. 6, Mar.
1987, 980.
Teppler et al., "Efficacy of Low Doses of the Polyethylene
Glycol Derivative of Interleukin-2
in Modulating the Immune Response of Patients with Human
Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1
Infection", JID, pp. 291-96 (1993).
R. Wood et al., "Safety and Efficacy of Polyethylene Glycol-
Modified Interleukin-2 and
Zidovudine in Human Immunodeficiency Virus Type 1 Infection:
A Phase I/II Study", JID, pp.
519-24 (1993).
S. Kanwowska et al., "Passive Immunization for the Treatment
and Prevention of HIV
Infection", Biotechnology Therapeutics, 2(1-2), 31-48 (1991).
H. Teppler et al., J. Infect. Dis. 167:291-298 (1993).
H. Teppler et al., J. Exp. Med., 177:483-492 (1993).
J. National Cancer Institute, 85(8): 622-632 (1993).
M. Roberts et al., "Targeting of Human Immunodeficiency
Virus-Infected Cells by CD8+ T
Lymphocytes Armed With Universal T-Cell Receptors", Blood,
vol. 84, No. 9, 1994, pp.
2878-2889.
Lane et al., J. Biol. Response Mos., 3: 512-516 (1984).
Stein et al., J. Infect. Dis., 165:352-363 (1993).
Schwartz et al., J. Acquir. Immune Defic. Syndr., 4(1): 11-
23, (1991) (abstract only
provided).
Schwartz et al., Biotherapy, 2:119-136 (1990).
Oyaizu et al., PNAS, 87: 2379-2383 (1990).
Matory et al., Journal of Biological Response Modifiers,
4:377-390 (1985).
A.A. Fauser, J. of Cellular Biochemistry, 45: 353-358 (1991).
Geszyme Catalog, Cytokine Research Products, 1991, pp. 19-20.
West, "Lymphokine-Activated Killer Lymphocytes:
Biotherapeutic Clinical Trials", Imm. Ser.,
48:79-92 (1989).
J. Boyd et al., "B Cell Responses to HIV and the Development
of Human Monoclonal
Antibodies", Clin. Exp. Immunol., 88: 189-202 (1992).
M. Reddy et al., "Di8fferential Effects of Interferon-
.alpha.2 and Interleukin-2 on Natural
Killer Cell Activity in Patients with Acquired Immune
Deficiency Syndrome", J. of Biol.
Response Modifiers, pp. 379-386 (1984).
M. Cheever et al., "Interleukin 2 Administered In vivo
Induses the Growth of Cultured T
Cells In vivo", Journal of Immunology, vol. 132, No. 5, 1994,
pp. 2259-2265.
ATTORNEY, AGENT, or FIRM:
Foley & Lardner;
PRIMARY/ASSISTANT EXAMINERS:
Ulm; John; Sorensen; Kenneth A.
Spencer Cox
fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
> Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of AIDS clinical trials
> involving IL-2.
Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted as one of the "inventors" of
the method, the asignee of the patent is the US government, and not Dr.s
Lane, Kovacs or Fauci. In other words, any money made from use of the
patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors. Do you ever suffer
the slightest pang about your tendency to make grandiose and often
defamatory claims based on what seems to be the most cursory glance at the
information you purport to be reporting?
Spencer Cox
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Hollis
In misc.health.alternative Spencer Cox <XXXTA...@MSN.COM> wrote:
: fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
:> Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of AIDS clinical trials
:> involving IL-2.
: Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted as one of the "inventors" of
: the method, the asignee of the patent is the US government, and not Dr.s
: Lane, Kovacs or Fauci. In other words, any money made from use of the
: patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors. Do you ever suffer
: the slightest pang about your tendency to make grandiose and often
: defamatory claims based on what seems to be the most cursory glance at the
: information you purport to be reporting?
Since when have the anti-aids quacks been worried about accuracy of their
diatribes? Quacks like fred know that they can say whatever they want and
don't have to worry about being accurate -- because they know people will
believe whatever they say, without checking the facts themselves.
Actually, it would be shocking if quackos like fred actually got something
right for a change.
-Dan
fred
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:17:51 -0800, in Message-ID:
<01bd50ef$21187a20$43142399@scdell>, Spencer Cox
of New York's "Treatment Action Group" (TAG)
stated:
> fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
> > Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
Spencer Cox is wrong -- there was no "misreading"
and the fact remains that NIAID's Dr. Anthony
Fauci DOES have a financial stake in the
outcome of AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
I don't make such bold statements without evidence.
Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
> Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted
> as one of the "inventors" of the method, the
> asignee of the patent is the US government, and
> not Dr.s Lane, Kovacs or Fauci.
I am delighted that Spencer Cox actually read
that far before embarassing himself with such
histrionics. His motives are showing.
As I originally stated, the fact remains:
"Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
> In other words, any money made from use of the
> patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
But this, of course, is a deliberate lie. A false
statement. A fraud in a pattern of frauds perpetrated
by the "AIDS treatment activist" organizations with
financial ties to the drug industry. Spencer
Cox is on the payroll of one such organization: TAG.
The fact remains that while the US Government
is the owner, the patent HOLDERS are Fauci, Lane
and Kovacs. Holders of U.S. Government patents
are, indeed, recipients of financial incentives.
In this case, the incentives appear to be
extraordinary.
Spencer Cox failed to illustrate the distinction
between patent owners and patent holders in this
case. This is part of a deliberate pattern of
unacceptable behavior and personal dishonesty, not
only on the part of Spencer Cox, but also on
the part of many other AIDS "treatment activists"
who have sold out to business interests.
> Do you ever suffer the slightest pang about your
> tendency to make grandiose and often defamatory
> claims
I don't need to make grandiose claims -- the facts are,
by themselves, astounding. As to "defamatory",
please be advised that the ultimate defense for
charges of defamation is the truth.
However, to falsely accuse someone of making "defamatory
grandiose claims" on such a fraudulent basis for personal
gain is the ultimate in defamation. In such an instance
as this, ignorance of the facts is no defense -- it
is negligence.
Spencer Cox/TAG has failed to exercise reasonable
care in broadcasting such false and outrageous charges.
Mr. Cox, YOU and TAG have engaged in defamation of character.
An apology from TAG and yourself is in order.
> based on what seems to be the most cursory
> glance at the information you purport to be reporting?
TAG's Spencer Cox should choose his words very
carefully, for they will come to form the bulk of his
drug activist diet ...
Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
Spencer?
W. Fred Shaw (fred...@primenet.com)
fred
Dan,
You should spend time with my response to Spencer Cox
and you will share his embarassment for being 100% wrong.
I have included my response at the end of my reply
to this message.
fred
On 16 Mar 1998 20:05:03 GMT in Message-ID:
<6ek0lf$pt0$2...@news.chatlink.com> Dan Hollis
<goe...@sasami.anime.net> blurted:
>
> In misc.health.alternative Spencer Cox <XXXTA...@MSN.COM> wrote:
>
> : fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
> :> Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of AIDS clinical trials
> :> involving IL-2.
> : Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted as one of the "inventors" of
> : the method, the asignee of the patent is the US government, and not Dr.s
> : Lane, Kovacs or Fauci. In other words, any money made from use of the
> : patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors. Do you ever suffer
> : the slightest pang about your tendency to make grandiose and often
> : defamatory claims based on what seems to be the most cursory glance at the
> : information you purport to be reporting?
>
> Since when have the anti-aids quacks been worried
> about accuracy of their diatribes?
Dan, I have never communicated with you, so you have
no basis to misrepresent my views in such infantile terms.
> Quacks like fred
Illogical.
Quacks give advice to promote unproven and dangerous
treatments that don't work -- I don't promote or sell
any AIDS treatment, therefore the definition fails.
Dan fails the test of logic: I am not a member of the
AIDS establishment.
> (Quacks like fred) know that they can say whatever
> they want and don't have to worry about being accurate
> -- because they know people will believe whatever
> they say, without checking the facts themselves.
The troubled reasoning Dan expresses doesn't account for
the fact that I document the science and distribute it.
Point is, I don't want anyone to believe me. My opinion,
like Dan's here, is irrelevant. Only the facts are important.
However, unlike Dan and those he blindly admires, I'll
point out the scientific and factual data that contradicts the
establishment propaganda and lies. I offer the information
at face value, that's all.
Do with the information as you wish. Draw whatever
conclusions you want. Its up to you. What Dan or I
think are irrelevant.
> Actually, it would be shocking if quackos like fred
> actually got something right for a change.
Here's a perfect example of how the censorship mentality
operates in support of AIDS fraud: instead of dealing
with the message, attack the messenger personally.
Dan, grow up.
fred
Here Dan, put this in your pipe and smoke it:
===================================
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:17:51 -0800, in Message-ID:
<01bd50ef$21187a20$43142399@scdell>, Spencer Cox
of New York's "Treatment Action Group" (TAG)
stated:
> fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
> > Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
Spencer Cox is wrong -- there was no "misreading"
and the fact remains that NIAID's Dr. Anthony
Fauci DOES have a financial stake in the
outcome of AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
I don't make such bold statements without evidence.
Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
> Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted
> as one of the "inventors" of the method, the
> asignee of the patent is the US government, and
> not Dr.s Lane, Kovacs or Fauci.
I am delighted that Spencer Cox actually read
that far before embarassing himself with such
histrionics. His motives are showing.
As I originally stated, the fact remains:
"Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
> In other words, any money made from use of the
> patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
But this, of course, is a deliberate lie. A false
statement. A fraud in a pattern of frauds perpetrated
by the "AIDS treatment activist" organizations with
financial ties to the drug industry. Spencer
Cox is on the payroll of one such organization: TAG.
The fact remains that while the US Government
is the owner, the patent HOLDERS are Fauci, Lane
and Kovacs. Holders of U.S. Government patents
are, indeed, recipients of financial incentives.
In this case, the incentives appear to be
extraordinary.
Spencer Cox failed to illustrate the distinction
between patent owners and patent holders in this
case. This is part of a deliberate pattern of
unacceptable behavior and personal dishonesty, not
only on the part of Spencer Cox, but also on
the part of many other AIDS "treatment activists"
who have sold out to business interests.
> Do you ever suffer the slightest pang about your
> tendency to make grandiose and often defamatory
> claims
I don't need to make grandiose claims -- the facts are,
by themselves, astounding. As to "defamatory",
please be advised that the ultimate defense for
charges of defamation is the truth.
However, to falsely accuse someone of making "defamatory
grandiose claims" on such a fraudulent basis for personal
gain is the ultimate in defamation. In such an instance
as this, ignorance of the facts is no defense -- it
is negligence.
Spencer Cox/TAG has failed to exercise reasonable
care in broadcasting such false and outrageous charges.
Mr. Cox, YOU and TAG have engaged in defamation of character.
An apology from TAG and yourself is in order.
> based on what seems to be the most cursory
> glance at the information you purport to be reporting?
TAG's Spencer Cox should choose his words very
carefully, for they will come to form the bulk of his
drug activist diet ...
Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
Spencer?
W. Fred Shaw (fred...@primenet.com)
Rex Harrill
fred wrote: [snip]
> There is much, much more ... stay tuned.
Indeed I will---you're one tough hombre and I don't want to miss the
outcome. How about a pointer to a bio that will let me understand this
raging battle.
Regards,
Rex Harrill
PS: I'm not the brightest guy around, but I knew before reading far
that the guy with the patent was probably feathering his nest.
Marnix L. Bosch
In article <350DAF...@primenet.com>, "fredshaw"@primenet[.snip.].com wrote:
> Point is, I don't want anyone to believe me. My opinion,
> like Dan's here, is irrelevant. Only the facts are important.
> However, unlike Dan and those he blindly admires, I'll
> point out the scientific and factual data that contradicts the
> establishment propaganda and lies. I offer the information
> at face value, that's all.
>
> Do with the information as you wish. Draw whatever
> conclusions you want. Its up to you. What Dan or I
> think are irrelevant.
Usenet as the great equalizer. Since you cannot know who's behind the
posts, credentials don't count. Which must be convenient if you don't have
any.
Marnix Bosch
(follow-up set to misc.health.aids)
CBI
Why, Fred, why do you spend time on these things ? You can't possibly be
deluded enough to believe this crap. If you really do please seek help. Do
you just hate so much you are trying to hurt people with misinformation ? I
don't get it. <<<< potential snip here - go ahead use it to say something
funny, just after you harang me get yourself some help.
--
Good Luck,
CBI, M.D.
powe...@msn.com
fred wrote in message <350D9B...@primenet.com>...
>On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:17:51 -0800, in Message-ID:
><01bd50ef$21187a20$43142399@scdell>, Spencer Cox
>of New York's "Treatment Action Group" (TAG)
>stated:
>
>> fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
>> > Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
>> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
>
>Spencer Cox is wrong -- there was no "misreading"
>and the fact remains that NIAID's Dr. Anthony
>Fauci DOES have a financial stake in the
>outcome of AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
>
>I don't make such bold statements without evidence.
>
>Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
>
>> Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted
>> as one of the "inventors" of the method, the
>> asignee of the patent is the US government, and
>> not Dr.s Lane, Kovacs or Fauci.
>
>I am delighted that Spencer Cox actually read
>that far before embarassing himself with such
>histrionics. His motives are showing.
>
>As I originally stated, the fact remains:
>
> "Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
>
>This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
>
>> In other words, any money made from use of the
>> patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
>
>W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
>
>But this, of course, is a deliberate lie. A false
>statement. A fraud in a pattern of frauds perpetrated
>by the "AIDS treatment activist" organizations with
>financial ties to the drug industry. Spencer
>Cox is on the payroll of one such organization: TAG.
>
>The fact remains that while the US Government
>is the owner, the patent HOLDERS are Fauci, Lane
>and Kovacs. Holders of U.S. Government patents
>are, indeed, recipients of financial incentives.
>In this case, the incentives appear to be
>extraordinary.
>
>Spencer Cox failed to illustrate the distinction
>between patent owners and patent holders in this
>case. This is part of a deliberate pattern of
>unacceptable behavior and personal dishonesty, not
>only on the part of Spencer Cox, but also on
>the part of many other AIDS "treatment activists"
>who have sold out to business interests.
>
>> Do you ever suffer the slightest pang about your
>> tendency to make grandiose and often defamatory
>> claims
>
>I don't need to make grandiose claims -- the facts are,
>by themselves, astounding. As to "defamatory",
>please be advised that the ultimate defense for
>charges of defamation is the truth.
>
>However, to falsely accuse someone of making "defamatory
>grandiose claims" on such a fraudulent basis for personal
>gain is the ultimate in defamation. In such an instance
>as this, ignorance of the facts is no defense -- it
>is negligence.
>
>Spencer Cox/TAG has failed to exercise reasonable
>care in broadcasting such false and outrageous charges.
>Mr. Cox, YOU and TAG have engaged in defamation of character.
>
>An apology from TAG and yourself is in order.
>
>> based on what seems to be the most cursory
>> glance at the information you purport to be reporting?
>
>TAG's Spencer Cox should choose his words very
>carefully, for they will come to form the bulk of his
>drug activist diet ...
>
>Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
>disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
>industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
>TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
>Spencer?
>
>W. Fred Shaw (fred...@primenet.com)
>
>
Stewart Hymans
W. Fred,
You may have some sort of point; I'd look at evidence if you had it.
But there is no excuse for your tone. It is unattractive, and
diminishes your credibility. Your strident tone seems inappropriate to
the subject.
If you are so sure that you are "right," in whatever your point is, the
BE right. Be dignified.
Diminishing others, no matter their motive, diminishes you.
A thought, from Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by statesmen, philosophers and divines.
Ask me what I think today, and I'll tell you what I think today,
ask me what I think tomorrow, and I'll you, even if it contradicts what
I thought the day before...
Trust thyself, every heart vibrates to that iron string..."
If you don't have the certainty of your views, and the dignity of
belief, don't ask for MY trust when you only have mistrust to share.
Stewart
fred
On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:33:04 -0500 in
Message-ID: <uQWsdNU...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>
Why don't you spend more time on these factual
things rather than those superstitious things??
What is it about these factual issues of conflicts
of interest at the highest levels of the AIDS
establishment that bothers you so?
> You can't possibly be deluded enough to believe
> this crap.
You offer nothing to illustrate these facts are crap.
All you offer is crap. Anonymous crap.
> If you really do please seek help.
I have already consulted patent attorneys for help,
thanks for your insincerity. You're comments are
classic Carter/Delaney anonymous cowardice.
I'm correct, as usual. If reality causes you pain,
get help.
> Do you just hate so much you are trying to hurt
> people with misinformation ?
Gee, almost a verbatim replay of Martin Delaney and
George Carter -- interesting how these new "users"
suddenly appear when the disclosures of fact
scare the living crap out of them!
Boys, listen up, you're not proving the AIDS establishment's
case by attacking the messenger with anonymous posts
such as these. ALL you are proving with these infantile
attacks is your desperation, ignorance and lack of
originality. That's the reason you failed in the first
place.
Facts -- let's discuss the facts, if you have any,
but apparently you don't!
> I don't get it.
I don't either -- why won't you sign your name
to this anonymous post? Another gutless wonder?
<<<< potential snip here - go ahead use it to say something
> funny, just after you harang me get yourself some help.
Harang you? I don't need to. You're post stands on its
own merit.
>
> Good Luck,
> CBI, M.D.
> powe...@msn.com
Interesting posts such as this often appear when the AIDS
establishment is caught red-faced with its collective pants
down and red-handed with its collective slimy hands in
the drugco slush funds.
> fred wrote in message <350D9B...@primenet.com>...
> >On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:17:51 -0800, in Message-ID:
> ><01bd50ef$21187a20$43142399@scdell>, Spencer Cox
> >of New York's "Treatment Action Group" (TAG)
> >stated:
> >
> >> fred, misreading patent data, wrote:
> >> > Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> >> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
> >
> >Spencer Cox is wrong -- there was no "misreading"
> >and the fact remains that NIAID's Dr. Anthony
> >Fauci DOES have a financial stake in the
> >outcome of AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2.
> >
> >I don't make such bold statements without evidence.
> >
> >Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
> >
> >> Fred, please notice that, while Fauci is noted
> >> as one of the "inventors" of the method, the
> >> asignee of the patent is the US government, and
> >> not Dr.s Lane, Kovacs or Fauci.
> >
> >I am delighted that Spencer Cox actually read
> >that far before embarassing himself with such
> >histrionics. His motives are showing.
> >
> >As I originally stated, the fact remains:
> >
> > "Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
> >
> >This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
> >
> >> In other words, any money made from use of the
> >> patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
> >
> >W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
> >
> >But this, of course, is a deliberate lie. A false
> >statement. A fraud in a pattern of frauds perpetrated
> >by the "AIDS treatment activist" organizations with
> >financial ties to the drug industry. Spencer
> >Cox is on the payroll of one such organization: TAG.
> >
> >The fact remains that while the US Government
> >is the owner, the patent HOLDERS are Fauci, Lane
> >and Kovacs. Holders of U.S. Government patents
> >are, indeed, recipients of financial incentives.
> >In this case, the incentives appear to be
> >extraordinary.
> >
> >Spencer Cox failed to illustrate the distinction
> >between patent owners and patent holders in this
> >case. This is part of a deliberate pattern of
> >unacceptable behavior and personal dishonesty, not
> >only on the part of Spencer Cox, but also on
> >the part of many other AIDS "treatment activists"
> >who have sold out to business interests.
> >
> >> Do you ever suffer the slightest pang about your
> >> tendency to make grandiose and often defamatory
> >> claims
> >
> >I don't need to make grandiose claims -- the facts are,
> >by themselves, astounding. As to "defamatory",
> >please be advised that the ultimate defense for
> >charges of defamation is the truth.
> >
> >However, to falsely accuse someone of making "defamatory
> >grandiose claims" on such a fraudulent basis for personal
> >gain is the ultimate in defamation. In such an instance
> >as this, ignorance of the facts is no defense -- it
> >is negligence.
> >
> >Spencer Cox/TAG has failed to exercise reasonable
> >care in broadcasting such false and outrageous charges.
> >Mr. Cox, YOU and TAG have engaged in defamation of character.
> >
> >An apology from TAG and yourself is in order.
> >
> >> based on what seems to be the most cursory
> >> glance at the information you purport to be reporting?
> >
> >TAG's Spencer Cox should choose his words very
> >carefully, for they will come to form the bulk of his
> >drug activist diet ...
> >
> >Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
> >disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
> >industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
> >TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
> >Spencer?
> >
> >W. Fred Shaw (fred...@primenet.com)
> >
> >
George M. Carter
CBI wrote:
>> Do you just hate so much you are trying to hurt
>> people with misinformation ?
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Gee, almost a verbatim replay of Martin Delaney and
>George Carter -- interesting how these new "users"
>suddenly appear when the disclosures of fact
>scare the living crap out of them!
Hmm...let me guess. We're about to be treated with: all these other
poster are GEORGE M. CARTER!!! Because he used a handle at the
Backroom YEARS AGO and called himself JOHNNY CHASED, he clearly is ALL
THESE OTHER PEOPLE!!!
Fred. The fact is, these are separate individuals coming to similar
conclusions. You are a man in serious pain. You show hatred all the
time. Your pain is so palpable, Clinton probably actually DOES feel it
without ever having heard of you.
May you find peace.
George M. Carter
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
snip
>Quacks give advice to promote unproven and dangerous
>treatments that don't work -- I don't promote or sell
>any AIDS treatment, therefore the definition fails.
snip
That's a laugh!! You promote DNCB as the single most important therapy
in HIV disease!! To the exclusion of all else.
Gee--if anyone doesn't believe me, they can just do a Dejanews search.
George M. Carter
Spencer Cox
Fred said:
> >Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
I asked:
> Citation please? Transcript of conversation?
Fred suggested:
Personal communication.
I don't believe you, Fred. Although I have to admit, the image gives me a
giggle:
<phone rings>
"Hello?"
"Hi, Fred? It's Tony. Listen -- I've been thinking about it, and I can't
possibly live with myself if I don't come clean. I'm in on then profits
from IL-2."
<snort> Yeah, right.
> >As I originally stated, the fact remains:
>
> > "Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
>
> >This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
>
> Not proven or even suggested by any evidence you've posted here.
Arrogant lies don't right your wrong.
I assume your failure to post the evidence means that there isn't any, and
you've simply made this up.
> In other words, any money made from use of the
> patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
>
> >W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
>
> Prove it.
I did. You have failed to support your incorrect
assertion. The burden of proof remains yours.
No on this post. Again, I can only assume that your failure to provide
supportive evidence suggests that such evidence doesn't exist.
As usual, you will predictably "agree to disagree".
Well, yes -- when you continue to spew out false assertions and fail to
provide any rational support for those assertions, and I've already posted
evidence and arguments that, in my opinion, are sufficient to make clear
why I believe you to be wrong, then there is no point in continuing to
argue with you.
> >Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
> >disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
> >industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
> >TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
> >Spencer?
>
> I haven't a CLUE as to what you're talking about,
> and as our financial data are publicly available
> information, I'll ask in advance for evidence
> supporting any claim you make.
I'll take that as a refusal to disclose and it
will be dealt with accordingly.
I still haven't a clue as to what you're trying to imply. Neither I nor my
organization receives any money from Geneva, Switzerland.
Spencer Cox
fred
Marnix L. Bosch wrote:
>
> In article <350DAF...@primenet.com>, "fredshaw"@primenet[.snip.].com wrote:
>
> > like Dan's here, is irrelevant. Only the facts are important.
> > However, unlike Dan and those he blindly admires, I'll
> > point out the scientific and factual data that contradicts the
> > establishment propaganda and lies. I offer the information
> > at face value, that's all.
> >
> > Do with the information as you wish. Draw whatever
> > conclusions you want. Its up to you. What Dan or I
> > think are irrelevant.
>
> who's behind the posts, credentials don't count.
Sure they do, I'll cite them as needed.
By the way, did I miss any of Tony Fauci's?
> Which must be convenient if you don't have any.
No -- its only convenient if you do, dummy!
> Marnix Bosch
Cured yesterday of my disease,
I died last night of my physician.
Matthew Prior (1664-1721), English poet, diplomat.
The Remedy Worse than the Disease.
Marnix L. Bosch
> Marnix L. Bosch wrote:
> >
> > In article <350DAF...@primenet.com>,
"fredshaw"@primenet[.snip.].com wrote:
> >
> > > Point is, I don't want anyone to believe me. My opinion,
> > > like Dan's here, is irrelevant. Only the facts are important.
> > > However, unlike Dan and those he blindly admires, I'll
> > > point out the scientific and factual data that contradicts the
> > > establishment propaganda and lies. I offer the information
> > > at face value, that's all.
> > >
> > > Do with the information as you wish. Draw whatever
> > > conclusions you want. Its up to you. What Dan or I
> > > think are irrelevant.
> >
> > Usenet as the great equalizer. Since you cannot know
> > who's behind the posts, credentials don't count.
>
> Sure they do, I'll cite them as needed.
>
> By the way, did I miss any of Tony Fauci's?
>
> > Which must be convenient if you don't have any.
>
> No -- its only convenient if you do, dummy!
How would you know ?
Marnix Bosch
fred
Marnix L. Bosch wrote:
>
> In article <350FBA...@primenet.com>, fred...@primenet.com wrote:
>
> > Marnix L. Bosch wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <350DAF...@primenet.com>,
> > > "fredshaw"@primenet[.snip.].com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > conclusions you want. Its up to you. What Dan or I
> > > > think are irrelevant.
> > >
> > > who's behind the posts, credentials don't count.
> >
> > Sure they do, I'll cite them as needed.
> >
> > By the way, did I miss any of Tony Fauci's?
> >
> > > Which must be convenient if you don't have any.
> >
> > No -- its only convenient if you do, dummy!
>
> How would you know ?
I knew you were a dummy, didn't I?
fred
fred
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> CBI wrote:
> >> Do you just hate so much you are trying to hurt
> >> people with misinformation ?
>
>
> >Gee, almost a verbatim replay of Martin Delaney and
> >George Carter -- interesting how these new "users"
> >suddenly appear when the disclosures of fact
> >scare the living crap out of them!
>
> poster are GEORGE M. CARTER!!! Because he used a handle at the
> Backroom YEARS AGO and called himself JOHNNY CHASED, he clearly is ALL
> THESE OTHER PEOPLE!!!
>
> Fred. The fact is, these are separate individuals coming to similar
> conclusions.
There is no evidence to suggest separate individuals.
Only face value user ids.
No wonder you pharmaceutical activists have screwed things
up royally.
Better watch out, though -- DeLooney is taking over while
you babble. He's got the money, you have nothing. ACTUP
Golden Gate is lifeless, ACTUP New York is dead.
Just Martooney DeLooney. Aktivust Czarina
> You are a man in serious pain.
You're the heroin addict, not I.
> You show hatred all the time.
No. Merely unconditional love.
> Your pain is so palpable,
Your heroin addiction is so palpably obvious.
> Clinton probably actually DOES feel it
> without ever having heard of you.
Clinton HAS heard from you -- you would
know that he feels it -- while on your knees.
zzzzzzziiiiippppp.
> May you find peace.
Peace found me...
"Fred" means "peace" in a certain asian dialect.
You're dull to the max these days. Too much Dr. "Me"?
fred
Spencer Cox,of Treatments Annihilating Gays (TAG)
reveals an appalling lack of understanding
of the NIH reward system while promoting MORE! MORE! MORE!
for incentives, not realizing that he'd been so easily
manipulated and fooled:
>
> Fred said:
> > >Besides, Dr. Fauci acknowledged this fact this morning.
>
> I asked:
> > Citation please? Transcript of conversation?
>
> Fred suggested:
> Personal communication.
>
> I don't believe you, Fred.
What you believe is not the crucial determinant
of the facts, Spencer.
> Although I have to admit, the image gives me a giggle:
>
> <phone rings>
> "Hello?"
> "Hi, Fred? It's Tony. Listen -- I've been thinking
> about it, and I can't possibly live with myself
> if I don't come clean. I'm in on then profits
> from IL-2."
>
> <snort> Yeah, right.
Where did you get the idea that Tony called me?
(other than your single digit IQ?)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha <snort giggle howl...>
No WONDER TAG has blundered away research opportunities
and lives -- they sold out to the drugcos.
> > >As I originally stated, the fact remains:
> >
> > > "Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
> > > AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
> >
> > >This is a true, indisputable statement of fact. Period.
> >
> > Not proven or even suggested by any evidence you've posted here.
>
> Arrogant lies don't right your wrong.
>
> I assume your failure to post the evidence
> means that there isn't any, and
> you've simply made this up.
Hardly. Spencer, you conveniently "forget" all the lovely
"work" you have done in the research incentives area.
Don't you recall reminding me that I wasn't "familiar"
with your work? You underestimated. Fatal ... dumb.
One more time for Jerry's Kid Spence:
"Fauci has a financial stake in the outcome of
AIDS clinical trials involving IL-2."
Once again, a true statement.
Spence, you co-opted everyone with more stupidity
-- you have no clue as to the law and the ethical guidelines.
Why does that not surprise me?
What gives your agenda away is clear: you haven't
the slightest clue regarding ethics.
>
> > In other words, any money made from use of the
> > patent goes to Uncle Sam, not to any of these doctors.
> >
> > >W-R-O-N-G! It doesn't get more wrong than this!
> >
> > Prove it.
>
> I did. You have failed to support your incorrect
> assertion. The burden of proof remains yours.
You don't have a clue about the patent regulations
pertaining to the NIH.
> No on this post. Again, I can only assume that your failure to provide
> supportive evidence suggests that such evidence doesn't exist.
Your flawed and ignorant assumptions will, ironically,
be your own undoing.
>> As usual, you will predictably "agree to disagree".
>
> Well, yes --
Garden variety bimboy incompetence.
> when you continue to spew out false assertions
I posted the patent, you offered no contrary evidence.
> and fail to provide any rational support for
> those assertions,
You are irrational, you wouldn't know what rational
looks like.
> and I've already posted evidence and arguments that,
> in my opinion, are sufficient to make clear
> why I believe you to be wrong,
What "evidence"? You don't think your "opinion"
and random "arguments" are facts, do you?
> then there is no point in continuing to
> argue with you.
You can't sustain your position or your lies.
Dr. Fauci is what he is.
I posted The Fauci Files: Addenda. A must-read.
Have a ball!
>
> > >Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
> > >disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
> > >industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
> > >TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
> > >Spencer?
> >
> > I haven't a CLUE as to what you're talking about,
Figures. Still in a daze from a rough day of shopping?
> > > and as our financial data are publicly available
> > > information, I'll ask in advance for evidence
> > > supporting any claim you make.
>
>> I'll take that as a refusal to disclose and it
>> will be dealt with accordingly.
>
> I still haven't a clue as to what you're trying to imply.
I imply nothing. I ask, you answer. You're the big deal
cocktail advocate - why all the secrets? Does the
"fight against AIDS" require lies, deception
and scheming as you have offered us here?
Why are you deceptive? Scared? (you should be, game's over)
> Neither I nor my organization receives any money
> from Geneva, Switzerland.
Are you going to the AIDS conference in the upcoming months?
Who pays for your airfare .. hotel ... matching luggage?
>
> Spencer Cox, Another Dr. Fauci committee appointment...
splat.
fred
Stewart Hymans wrote:
>
> W. Fred,
>
> You may have some sort of point;
> I'd look at evidence if you had it.
I have it. I looked at it.
I posted enough of it for you to verify it.
> But there is no excuse for your tone.
As to "no excuse", tone aside, you've just snubbed
the memory of 360,000+ American souls. I don't
care for that tone.
> It is unattractive, and diminishes your credibility.
A mountain of corpses is unattractive. Perhaps that
exposes your motive for attacking the messenger rather
than dealing with the facts.
> Your strident tone seems inappropriate to
> the subject.
If you want a circus tone, be patient, Geneva is
a few short months away. In the meantime, you'll
just have to get over your tone fixation.
> If you are so sure that you are "right,"
> in whatever your point is, the BE right. Be dignified.
You've failed to demonstrate I have been otherwise.
However, your focus on the messenger has run its
course. That isn't dignified at all.
> Diminishing others, no matter their motive, diminishes you.
Then you're diminished by your own standard.
Cured yesterday of my disease,
I died last night of my physician.
-- Matthew Prior (1664-1721), English poet, diplomat.
> A thought, from Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
> little minds, adored by statesmen, philosophers and divines..."
German poet Friedrich von Schiller’s famous line:
“Mit der Dummheit kampfen Gotter selbst vergebens.”
(“Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain.”)
> If you don't have the certainty of your views,
I have the certainty or I wouldn't have posted The Fauci Files.
You don't need to worry about my certainty as the
evidence speaks for itself, you have only to worry
about your certainty.
> and the dignity of belief,
Neither dignity nor belief are the issues at hand,
why do you wish to make them so, if not to smokescreen?
Not very dignified indeed.
> don't ask for MY trust
I did't ask for your trust. Nor would I trust someone
who attacks the messenger rather than deals with the
content of the message.
> when you only have mistrust to share.
Mistrust appears to be your gift of ignorance ...
“...the average (person) finds himself in a state akin to
that of a medieval peasant attending mass in a great gothic
cathedral: he is awed, he knows that something terribly
important is being said, but he understands very little
because it’s all in Latin. He takes the wafer and remains
mystified.”
-- Brian Silver, The Ascent of Science
fred
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> snip
> >Quacks give advice to promote unproven and dangerous
> >treatments that don't work --
SPV-30, NAC, Carter's favorites all!
> > I don't promote or sell
> >any AIDS treatment, therefore the definition fails.
>
> snip
>
> That's a laugh!! You promote DNCB as the single most important therapy
> in HIV disease!! To the exclusion of all else.
>
> Gee--if anyone doesn't believe me, they can just do a Dejanews search.
Please do! Carter is a pathological liar!
George thinks everyone else is also a cheap street hooker of
his ilk with a tacky purse brimming with SPV-30. He can't comprehend
how one views a treatment objectively -- as soon as
he can mispronounce it, Carter's off to the races!!
I do NOT promote DNCB. In fact, I don't even have a phone
number to give you where to get it. Carter does! George,
is the DNCB promoter -- he sells it, not I!!!!
Check it out in DejaNews: hundreds of posts in which Carter
switches the subject from something distinctly irrelevant
to his support for DNCB!!!
ACT UP New York, TAG and ACTUP Golden Gate SUPPORT DNCB!!!
Marge Simpson
As once again, Fred has declined to produce evidence of his claim, I'll
assume it to be made up.
Fred wrote:
Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
Spencer?
I responded:
> > I still haven't a clue as to what you're trying to imply.
> > Neither I nor my organization receives any money
> > from Geneva, Switzerland.
Fred asked:
> Are you going to the AIDS conference in the upcoming months?
> Who pays for your airfare .. hotel ... matching luggage?
TAG pays for it from our general operating expenses.
Spencer Cox
George M. Carter
Fred wrote:
>You're the heroin addict, not I.
I disagree. The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
or "given up" to a habit. In the case of heroin, it is associated with
a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
I am neither ashamed nor proud of the fact: I used heroin on and off
for 8 years. I have not touched it since about 1989. In New York,
there are plenty of opportunities to buy drugs. I have no interest or
desire in doing so. For this and a lot of other reasons, I am not
addicted.
I know many people who have been through addiction. Many get along
just fine once they stop. Alcohol can be by far a worse addiction
than heroin. Rather than be insulting and snide, you could discuss
addiction issues as they related to HIV/AIDS. I append an important
doucment from the President's AIDS Commission.
George M. Carter
PACHA RESOLUTION ON NEEDLE EXCHANGE
PROGRAMS
March 17, 1998
WHEREAS we the members of the Presidential Advisory Council on
HIV/AIDS have on several occasions advised the President and Health
and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala that the Administration's
current policy on needle exchange programs threatens the public
health, and directly contradicts current scientific evidence regarding
the efficacy of such programs; and
WHEREAS this Administration has yet to put forward a coherent plan to
increase access to substance abuse treatment or to combat the spread
of HIV among injection drug users and their partners; and
\VHFREAS nearly 50% of all new HIV infections, and 44%, 44%, and 61%
of all reported AIDS cases among African-Amen cans, Latinos, and
women, respectively, are related to injection drug use; and
WHEREAS the Congress in 1997 reaffirmed Secretary Shalala's authority
to make federal funds available for needle exchange programs, provided
that she first determine that needle exchange programs reduce MIV
transmission and do not encourage drug use; and
WHEREAS no fewer that six federally funded reports (including a 1997
Consensus Report prepared by the National Institutes of Health) and
numerous other scientific studies have concluded that the above two
criteria have been met; and
WHEREAS the nation's leading public health groups, including the
American Medical Association, the American Public Health Association,
the National Academy of Sciences, and the Association of State and
Territorial Health Officers support needle exchange programs and the
elimination of federal funding restrictions; and
WHEREAS 61% of Americans surveyed believe that decisions regarding the
use of federal funds for needle exchange programs should be made by
local communities and not the federal government; and
WHEREAS it is essential that the nation's health policies be based on
sound, scientific evidence rather that on unsubstantiated fears or
politics; and
WHEREAS in light of the disproportionate impact of injection
drug-related HIV on communities of color in the United States, the
Secretary's continuing inaction undermines the credibility of the
Administration's stated goal of reducing racial and ethnic health
disparities; therefore
BE IT RESOLVED that, in the interest of the public health, and in our
capacity as independent advisors to the Administration, we unanimously
express "no confidence" in the Administration's commitment and
willingness to achieve the President's stated goal of "reducing the
number of new infections annually until there are no new infections";
and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Council urges Secretary Shalala to
issue an immediate determination declaring the efficacy of needle
exchange programs in preventing the spread of HIV while not
encouraging the use of illegal drugs.
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
snipped incredible audacity to not own up to Frod's vicious attacks on
others by hiding behind those who have died of AIDS...
>I did't ask for your trust. Nor would I trust someone
>who attacks the messenger rather than deals with the
>content of the message.
No one should trust you then. Attack the messenger? How is that
possible when your messages, when not filled with invective and
diatribe carry only distorted interpretations of meager amounts of
science?
George M. Carter
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
snip...
>I do NOT promote DNCB. In fact, I don't even have a phone
>number to give you where to get it. Carter does! George,
>is the DNCB promoter -- he sells it, not I!!!!
Frod, your sense of humor is pretty good sometimes! I really got a
good laugh over this one. I'm impressed. Perhaps if you follow this
line, you might alleviate the pain of your hate and find some joy. And
who knows? A career as a stand-up comic!
Best of luck!
George M. Carter
PS: Perhaps Frod's sudden flight from supporting DNCB has to do with
the following serious and unexplained observations that suggest DNCB
may not only have minimum value as a treatment for HIV--but may
actually be dangerous:
Sadat-Sowti B, Debre P, Peries L, Sasportes ML, Hadida F, Autran B
TI - CD8+CD57+ cells in HIV-related CD8 cell anergy.
AB - OBJECTIVES: We have previously characterized a soluble inhibitor
of cytolytic function produced by CD8+57+ cells, in relationship with
HIV-related CD4+ cell depletion and decreased of CD8+ CTL function. We
further studied the activation and the function of CD8+57+ cells in
order to understand its role in the hyperactivation of the immune
system and the immune deficiencies at late stages of HIV-disease.
METHODS: PBL from seropositive patients were analysed by 3-color IF.
Purified CD8+57+ lymphocytes, control CD57- cells and their culture
supernatants were tested in inhibition of NEF-specific CTL and NK
activities in Chromium release assays. RESULTS: CD8+57+ T cells are
partially activated, HLA-DR+CD38+CD29+CD45Ro+ memory T cells. Their
expression of adhesion molecules (VLA-2,-6) is lower than control
CD8+57- autologous cells. Their in vivo differentiation in cytolytic
effector cells, as assessed by their cytoplasmic positivity for
perforin and granzyme B, contrasts with their lack of spontaneous
lytic activity which can be induced after in vitro stimulation.
Furthermore, CD8+57+ cells produce a gp20-30 KD inhibitor which blocks
HIV-specific CTL and NK activities. This inhibitory activity is
reversible by addition of some cytokines of TH1, TH2 origins.
CONCLUSION: The CD8+57+ cells are abnormally in-vivo activated
cytolytic CD8 T cells. They might represent a transient state of CD8
cell activation with production of an inhibitor of cytolytic function
interacting with the cytokine network and participating in CD8 cell
anergy.
SO - Int Conf AIDS. 1993 Jun 6-11;9(1):222 (abstract no.
PO-A24-0526).
SI - ICA10/94369749
- Stricker RB, et al.
TI - Clinical and immunologic monitoring of HIV-infected patients
treated with topical dinitrochlorobenzene (DNCB).
AD - HemaCare Corporation, San Francisco, CA.
AB - There is growing evidence that HIV infection is controlled by
cell-mediated immunity (CMI) involving the interaction of dendritic
cells, Th1 cells, cytotoxic CD8 T-cells and natural killer (NK) cells.
Dinitrochlorobenzene (DNCB) is a skin sensitizing agent that enhances
CMI via the induction of delayed-type hypersensitivity. ...
[snip]
....Thirteen subjects continued weekly application of DNCB throughout
the study (the compliant group), while 11 patients discontinued DNCB
use after 6-24 months (the non-compliant group). ...
[snip]
....Compliant subjects showed a significant increase in NK cells (mean,
108 +/- 62 to 168 +/- 74, P = 0.002) and stable CD8 T-cells (mean,
1014 +/- 570 to 1093 +/- 661, P = NS). In contrast, NK cells decreased
significantly in the non-compliant group (mean, 126 +/- 66 to 70 +/-
31, P = 0.04), while CD8 T-cells decreased slightly (mean, 1234 +/-
626 to 920 +/- 527, P = NS). CD4 T-cells decreased in both groups, but
the drop was significantly greater in the non-compliant group (P =
0.03). CD8 CD57 T-cells and CD8 DR T-cells increased in the compliant
group and decreased in the non-compliant group (P = 0.014). CD8 CD38
T-cells increased significantly in both groups. [snip]...
SO - Int Conf AIDS. 1994 Aug 7-12;10(1):216 (abstract no. PB0295).
Abstracts from 5th Conf in Retro and OI, 2/2-5/98; see also
[110] SURVIVAL IN ADVANCED HIV DISEASE IS MORE STRINGENTLY RELATED TO
LYMPHOCYTE ACTIVATION AS REFLECTED BY EXPRESSION OF ELEVATED CD38
ANTIGEN ON T CELLS THAN TO PLASMA HIV VIRAL BURDEN.
JANIS V GIORGI^{1}*, STEVEN M WOLINSKY^{2}, LANCE HULTIN^{1}, JOHN J
PHAIR^{2}, LISA JACOBSON^{3}, ROGER DETELS^{1}, The Multicenter AIDS
Cohort Study and UCLA Schools of Medicine and Public Health, Los
Angeles, CA^{1}, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago,
IL^{2}, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD^{3}
A study was conducted to test laboratory markers that could explain
differences in time to death in HIV-infected individuals with severely
f advanced disease. Markers were measured on cryopreserved plasma and
PBMC obtained at the visit when CD4 counts first fell to <=50/mm^{3}.
The group with shorter survival died in <6 months (n=11; range
0.05-0.46 years) after the index visit and those with longer survival
lived >18 months (n=26; range 1.51-6.47 years) after the index visit.
CD4 counts, CD8 counts and ratio were not statistically different
between the two groups. Plasma HIV RNA copy number was associated with
shorter survival (P=0.022) with median values (ranges) that were
10^{5.6} (10^{4.9}-10^{6.1}) vs. 10^{5.2} (10^{4.5}-10^{5.3})
copies/ml in groups with shorter vs. longer survival, respectively.
Markers of immune activation that were associated with shorter
survival included CD38 expression on CD4+ cells (P= 0.002), CD38
expression on CD8+ cells (P= 0.001), Fas expression on CD8+ cells
(P=0.006) and the percentage of CD8+ cells that were CD38+CD45RO+
(P=0.007). Markers designed to test exhaustion of the T cell reserve
(including naive T cell levels) were not highly associated with
shorter g survival. These results indicate that in this group with
severely advanced HIV disease, markers of immune activation,
especially CD38 expression, were more strongly associated with shorter
survival than either markers of immune exhaustion or plasma viral
burden.
M. Laney
fred wrote:
>
> George M. Carter wrote:
Fred, George......
Any chance you could stop cross posting this discussion in all the
Sci.med. groups? None of your responses are coming from the Sci.
groups.
fred
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> snip...
>
> >I do NOT promote DNCB. In fact, I don't even have a phone
> >number to give you where to get it. Carter does! George,
> >is the DNCB promoter -- he sells it, not I!!!!
>
> Frod, your sense of humor is pretty good sometimes! I really got a
> good laugh over this one. I'm impressed. Perhaps if you follow this
> line, you might alleviate the pain of your hate and find some joy. And
> who knows? A career as a stand-up comic!
>
Cool -- too bad you offer nothing but giggles!
> George M. Carter
>
> PS: Perhaps Frod's sudden flight from supporting DNCB has to do with
> the following serious and unexplained observations that suggest DNCB
> may not only have minimum value as a treatment for HIV--but may
> actually be dangerous:
Wishful thinking from brainless peasant who remains oblivious
to the actual facts.
Carter, please see questions at end. Your burden is
far from complete.
Stop here, stonewall, refuse to offer a reasonable
response, and you're unmasked ... again.
George, care to synthesize your comprehension of the research
you present here in terms of the vast body of data that has
proven the association of high CD8+ t cell counts with long
term non-progression?
Demonstrate your professed sincerity to "fight AIDS" and
please explain the essential differences between the
cell populations discussed in the research YOU have posted
with the prior research findings of cell populations that
are found in long-term non-progressors.
What is the point of your posting this abstract -- what
is it offering that's new?
fred
whining pissing and moaning ... Waaaaahhhhhhhhh LEEEEEEEE
like a little girl cry-in' Waaaaahhhhhhhh!!!! leeeee...
> died of AIDS...
George Mary... killed 'em.
>
> >I did't ask for your trust. Nor would I trust someone
> >who attacks the messenger rather than deals with the
> >content of the message.
>
> No one should trust you then.
fred fred fred fred ...
fred is everything collapsing in George Mary's
sleazy little world... beastly POZ girl "Dr Me Me Me"
> Attack the messenger?
fred blah blah blah ...
> How is that possible
.... blah blah spit drool blah
> ...not filled with invective and diatribe
Princess die - a - tribe in - vek - tiv - i - teez
> carry only distorted interpretations
lots of s'ssss ... imagine the George Mary Lisp-a-thon
> meager amounts to my stupid dipshit made up non-science
>
> George Mary "Dr. HIV-nega Mee" Carter
gotta get 'cha a life little Mary, your lambs all died
but their viral load was un-de-tect-a-ble!!!
so the treatment worked...
you go girl!
fred
George the Junkie wrote:
>
> Fred wrote:
> >You're the heroin addict, not I.
>
> I disagree.
Excuse me Mr. Junklet, but do you realize:
1. Your fly is down
2. Nobody gives an albino rat's ass about your
silly little opinions!
>The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
> or "given up" to a habit.
that's you, gorp! You "switched" your opiate-torture
to activist-torture, but that became opiatism for
an opiatist.
end of discussion... smack tracker!!!
> In the case of heroin, it is associated with
> a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
No. You didn't feel sick the first time you used it. Or
the second. Or after a generous jail sentence, the 3982nd!
selective definitions are junkie rationalizations...
>
> I am neither ashamed nor proud of the fact: I used heroin on and off
> for 8 years. I have not touched it since about 1989.
Deceptive. You have not touched YOURSELF since 1989!
The smack's all over the fuckin' place!
> In New York, there are plenty of opportunities to buy drugs.
present tense. how would junko know that if he hadn't
touched the stuff in 10 loooong years?
you've pushed the envelope of this universe gorp...
> I have no interest or desire in doing so.
Snort. Chuckle. LAUGH.....
> For this and a lot of other reasons, I am not addicted.
OK, let's lock your miserable sleazy punk-boy ass
up for about an hour and we'll watch you puddle up.
>
> I know many people who have been through addiction.
You know 'em but you don't hang with 'em -- they won't
have nuttin to do with junkies.
> Many get along just fine once they stop.
Stop what? Needle? Is that the crucial definition of a
junkie?
NOPE...
Dopey, look -- you haven't done rehab because you can't
deal with reality and having a therapist open your
junkie shop of horrors ... you're an asshole -- you
won't sit still to cope with that thought without
exploding and calling your therapist an asshole --
that is the basis of your projection!
Once an addict always an addict.
Anything else is denial ... of an addict.
You can never trust a junkie.
> Alcohol can be by far a worse addiction
> than heroin.
"Excuse me bartender! Do you have the Margarita
special in a 10 CC 22 gauge 2" plunger?"
yeah george ... say goodbye to mr.credibility...
> Rather than be insulting and snide, you could discuss
> addiction issues as they related to HIV/AIDS.
Why? I don't care about addiction issues.
You do for obvious reasons... those long sleeve shirts
on 90-degree summer days... nobody notices, Mary.
!!! N-O-T !!!
> I append an important
> doucment from the President's AIDS Commission.
oh yeah, real important! Sure it is.
Clinton has more important things to do ... under his desk.
Wear your Monica Lewinsky kneepad/makeup kit -- you
just might get his attention.
> George M. Carter
>
> PACHA RESOLUTION ON NEEDLE EXCHANGE
> PROGRAMS
>
> March 17, 1998
>
> WHEREAS we the members of the Presidential Advisory Council on
> HIV/AIDS have on several occasions advised the President and Health
> and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala that the Administration's
> current policy on needle exchange programs threatens the public
> health, and directly contradicts current scientific evidence regarding
> the efficacy of such programs;
not necessarily true. keep reading.
>
> WHEREAS this Administration has yet to put forward a coherent plan to
> increase access to substance abuse treatment or to combat the spread
> of HIV among injection drug users and their partners; and
Coherent plan for irrational behavior?
> \VHFREAS nearly 50% of all new HIV infections, and 44%, 44%, and 61%
> of all reported AIDS cases among African-Amen cans, Latinos, and
> women, respectively, are related to injection drug use; and
You don't say how this is -- where do you talk about sharing
needles?
Where do you disclose the truth as to why people share
needles ?-- and its NOT because everyone doesn't have
a pocketful of their own!
HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY GEORGE!!!
(fucking psycho)
> WHEREAS the Congress in 1997 reaffirmed Secretary Shalala's authority
> to make federal funds available for needle exchange programs, provided
> that she first determine that needle exchange programs reduce MIV
> transmission and do not encourage drug use; and
Republican set-up. Boy are you junkies dumb!
> WHEREAS no fewer that six federally funded reports (including a 1997
> Consensus Report prepared by the National Institutes of Health) and
> numerous other scientific studies have concluded that the above two
> criteria have been met; and
Fine. Now let's put old Donna Do Nothing on "Queen for a Day".
> WHEREAS the nation's leading public health groups, including the
> American Medical Association, the American Public Health Association,
> the National Academy of Sciences, and the Association of State and
> Territorial Health Officers support needle exchange programs and the
> elimination of federal funding restrictions; and
They'd agree to anything just to get these protesting,
screeching, stinking junkies out of their office!
> WHEREAS 61% of Americans surveyed believe that decisions regarding the
> use of federal funds for needle exchange programs should be made by
> local communities and not the federal government; and
nobody asked me, darin or billi
where did the 61% come from? huh? George and Marty DeLooney?
> WHEREAS it is essential that the nation's health policies be based on
> sound, scientific evidence rather that on unsubstantiated fears or
> politics; and
In vancouver and zurich, the free needles INCREASED infections...
kiss the evidence good bye, "Stick"!
>
> WHEREAS in light of the disproportionate impact of injection
the problem IS NOT INJECTION -- the problem is SHARING
THE BLOOD CONTAINING NEEDLES OF OTHERS!
think they do that for "fun"?
No... they do that because they don't see "blood" -- all
they see is a red marker for more drugs -- residual drugs
-- free drugs.
That's the next illogical step here: free drugs. Got it?
Hand out all the "clean" needles you want -- the junkies
are STILL looking for the red marked ones.
> drug-related HIV on communities of color in the United States, the
> Secretary's continuing inaction undermines the credibility of the
> Administration's stated goal of reducing racial and ethnic health
> disparities; therefore
irrational ... nutz! race baiters, master-baiters, drug-baiters
sounds like a bunch of junkies gettin' real nervous in
the waiting room -- will the doc believe they ALL have
urinary calculus? .... me thinketh not!
cold turkey time, girlz!
epidemic of calculus in New York draws massive laughter.
>
> BE IT RESOLVED that, in the interest of the public health, and in our
> capacity as independent advisors to the Administration, we unanimously
> express "no confidence" in the Administration's commitment and
> willingness to achieve the President's stated goal of "reducing the
> number of new infections annually until there are no new infections";
> and
Great! Clinton did something right by doing nothing.
No free heroin? WHAAAAT? DO YOU EXPECT US TO PAY FOR
THOSE DRUGS FOR THE NEEDLES YOU GAVE US FREE??? WHAT
ARE YOU TRYIN TO DO, GET US INFECTED???
>
> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Council urges Secretary Shalala to
> issue an immediate determination declaring the efficacy of needle
> exchange programs in preventing the spread of HIV while not
> encouraging the use of illegal drugs.
well there ya go right there big fella!
I'm sure this Ar-kan-san's gonna leap at this one...
gawd are you drugco sellouts dumb!
nobody bought the scam...
its cold turkey time again girlzzzz....
fred
Marge Simpson wrote:
>
> As once again, Fred has declined to produce evidence of his claim, I'll
> assume it to be made up.
Sure Marge/Spencer ... I posted the web address of the
evidence.
Too bad you were hysterical at the time...
By the way, tell me how TAG views Fauci's contribution,
past and present...
>
> Fred wrote:
> Now perhaps Spencer Cox will be kind enough to
> disclose HIS conflicts of interest with the drug
> industry -- and, of course, those of his employer,
> TAG? Let's begin with Geneva, Switzerland, shall we
> Spencer?
>
> I responded:
> > > I still haven't a clue as to what you're trying to imply.
> > > Neither I nor my organization receives any money
> > > from Geneva, Switzerland.
Evasive cutting and pasting ... tacky.
> Fred asked:
> > Are you going to the AIDS conference in the upcoming months?
> > Who pays for your airfare .. hotel ... matching luggage?
>
> TAG pays for it from our general operating expenses.
>
> Spencer Cox
Now where does TAG get its cash, if not the drug companies?
David Ho?
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Carter, please see questions at end. Your burden is
>far from complete.
I saw your questions. You're the great all-knowing. And since you're
the one that promotes DNCB, the burden of proof is all yours.
Clearly, I'm too much a simple peasant to understand these things so I
await your clear explanations--as I'm sure all the readers here
are--with great anticipation! Finally, we can get back to discussing
the science.
George M. Carter
fred
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> >Carter, please see questions at end. Your burden is
> >far from complete.
to say the least.
>
> I saw your questions.
Don't have the answer? (never has the answer)
? You're the great all-knowing. And since you're
> the one that promotes DNCB,
you lie
> the burden of proof is all yours.
Your idiotic abstracts are not my burden.
> Clearly, I'm too much a simple peasant to understand
> these things
True.
> so I await your clear explanations
hold your breath...
> --as I'm sure all the readers here
who? where? how many?
> we can get back to discussing the science.
what do you mean "back to the science"?
you were never there in the first place.
George M. Carter
Frod, it seems you have no explanation for the findings that a subset
of CD8 cells, specifically those bearing CD38 or HLA-DR, are decreased
in HAART therapy. Yet the overall CD8 count increases. And for the
fact increased CD8+CD38+DR+ subsets are strongly correlated with
progression to AIDS. And that DNCB increases that subset specifically.
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>? You're the great all-knowing. And since you're
>> the one that promotes DNCB,
>you lie
No, I'm basing the comment on the views you have expressed here. Has
your view changed since your 11/13/97 post below? Certainly appears to
promote the use of DNCB to me.
George M. Carter
========
From: "W. Fred Shaw" <fred...@primenet.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.aids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Cocktail Clinical Trial Studies -- George CANNOT post!!
Date: 13 Nov 1997 23:35:00 -0700
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
Lines: 241
Message-ID: <346BF0...@primenet.com>
References: <346650...@primenet.com>
<648ep3$5...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: fred...@primenet.com
X-Posted-By: @207.218.12.203 (fredshaw)
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
CC: fred...@primenet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Xref: ix.netcom.com misc.health.aids:35137 sci.med:219314
[SNIPPED DIATRIBE]
> There is no evidence that DNCB upregulates Th1 in human
> beings with HIV.
See! You haven't done your research. Oh well, I guess I'll
have to get out the DNCB research, abstracts and clinical
studies to embarass all you do-gooders who have been on
a crusade AGAINST the ONLY immune-competent treatment that
works ... DNCB/urushiol !!!!
[SNIPPED DIATRIVE]
Larry Cashion
George M. Carter wrote:
>
>
> I disagree. The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
> or "given up" to a habit. In the case of heroin, it is associated with
> a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
Actually George,
There is a large and growing school of psychological thought that the
major basis of addictions, including those of opiate drugs such as
heroin, are based far more on psychological symptoms of addiction than
physical - some estimates giving psychological factors as 80% of the
reason for addiction.
The fact that you were able to stop using the drug so easily was
probably more to do with your state of mind than anyhting physcial. The
majority of users aren't so lucky as to be so psychologically well
endowed.
Larry Cashion
Port Macquarie, AUSTRALIA
la...@midcoast.com.au
George M. Carter
Larry Cashion <la...@midcoast.com.au> wrote:
>George M. Carter wrote:
>>
>>
>> I disagree. The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
>> or "given up" to a habit. In the case of heroin, it is associated with
>> a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
>Actually George,
>There is a large and growing school of psychological thought that the
>major basis of addictions, including those of opiate drugs such as
>heroin, are based far more on psychological symptoms of addiction than
>physical - some estimates giving psychological factors as 80% of the
>reason for addiction.
Well, I think we need to define how "psychological" and "physical" are
being distinguished. Do you have references to point to or some
abstracts? Heroin withdrawal, I assure you, is a very unpleasant,
very physical experience! That discomfort is either alleviated by
adding heroin or by a lot patience and time. In addition, the brain is
a physiological organ. The effects of heroin are specific to the
endorphin system. To that extent, the relationship is clearly
physical.
>The fact that you were able to stop using the drug so easily was
>probably more to do with your state of mind than anyhting physcial. The
>majority of users aren't so lucky as to be so psychologically well
>endowed.
Stopped using drugs so easily:? Au contraire. It was quite a difficult
journey and took two years of effort. There is unquestionably a
psychological component in the sense that the drug using lifestyle
takes a lot of time and attention. Giving up any type of habit means
you have more free time to do other things--and to the extent one may
facilitate finding useful, enjoyable activities to replace the habit
behavior, I agree there is a psychological set of issues with which to
contend.
George M. Carter
fred
George M. Carter wrote:
>
> Frod, it seems you have no explanation for the findings that a subset
> of CD8 cells, specifically those bearing CD38 or HLA-DR, are decreased
> in HAART therapy. Yet the overall CD8 count increases. And for the
> fact increased CD8+CD38+DR+ subsets are strongly correlated with
> progression to AIDS. And that DNCB increases that subset specifically.
George Mary, you haven't offered a synthesis of the research,
with citations and relevant quotations to illustrate how you
arrive at these "conclusions". Every single time I have had
to delve into an analysis of your fraudulent claims for the
research you cite, your claims have been proven to be
patently false -- EVERY TIME! -- that is, your "misreadings"
were OBVIOUS by what YOU posted, not I (need I remind you of
the most recent interchange re:NAC -- you've been strangely
quiet about NAC since then ... hmmm, I wonder why?).
You fail to offer any discussion -- that's because the subject
matter is way way over your pointy little head and chimp-like
ability for keyword lookup in non-peer-reviewed crap and
nonsense drug company conference databases.
Please, I would love to debate the issue with you, but you
have shown no real comprehension of the subject. You're
making the assertion to set the subject of the debate,
therefore, state your position clearly, cite your sources
and quote from them directly (no more misquotes, please!).
Why is that always too much to ask of you, George Mary?
I eagerly anticipate eviscerating you with DNCB
... once again [snort]!
> fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> >? You're the great all-knowing. And since you're
> >> the one that promotes DNCB,
>
> >you lie
>
> No, I'm basing the comment on the views you have expressed here. Has
> your view changed since your 11/13/97 post below? Certainly appears to
> promote the use of DNCB to me.
>
> George Mary Carter
My view hasn't changed. Yours better, because you're the
one who promotes DNCB, not I. You are merely in denial
regarding the definition!
George Mary ... hoist by her own petard ... once again!
fred
>
> ========
> From: "W. Fred Shaw" <fred...@primenet.com>
> Newsgroups: misc.health.aids,sci.med
> Subject: Re: Cocktail Clinical Trial Studies -- George CANNOT post!!
> Date: 13 Nov 1997 23:35:00 -0700
> Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
> Lines: 241
> Message-ID: <346BF0...@primenet.com>
>
> [SNIPPED George Mary's hand-smashed-in-cookie-jar]
>
> > There is no evidence that DNCB upregulates Th1 in human
> > beings with HIV.
>
> See! You haven't done your research. Oh well, I guess I'll
> have to get out the DNCB research, abstracts and clinical
> studies to embarass all you do-gooders who have been on
> a crusade AGAINST the ONLY immune-competent treatment that
> works ... DNCB/urushiol !!!!
>
> [SNIPPED EVIDENCE OF DNCB EFFECTIVENESS]
[Oxford dictionary: Promote, a product: publicize and sell.]
By definition, George Mary, in her DAAIR position, is
the one who promotes (publicizes and sells) DNCB, not I.
On the other hand...
I merely state the obvious, which I can sustain
with the published proof.
George Mary -- get off the smack and get back to school,
your ignorance is showing.
fred
fred
Junkie George Mary Carter of AIDS Coalition to Unleash
Pharmaceuticals wrote:
>
> Larry Cashion <la...@midcoast.com.au> wrote:
>
> >George M. Carter wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I disagree. The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
> >> or "given up" to a habit. In the case of heroin, it is associated with
> >> a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
>
> >Actually George,
>
> >There is a large and growing school of psychological thought that the
> >major basis of addictions, including those of opiate drugs such as
> >heroin, are based far more on psychological symptoms of addiction than
> >physical - some estimates giving psychological factors as 80% of the
> >reason for addiction.
>
> Well, I think we need to define how "psychological" and "physical" are
> being distinguished. Do you have references to point to or some
> abstracts? Heroin withdrawal, I assure you, is a very unpleasant,
> very physical experience! That discomfort is either alleviated by
> adding heroin or by a lot patience and time.
Or methadone. George Mary "conveniently" the central
treatment.
> In addition, the brain is a physiological organ.
Not psychological? In George Mary the miniscule brain is
little more than a lie factory.
> The effects of heroin are specific to the
> endorphin system. To that extent, the relationship is clearly
> physical.
No, the effects are NOT merely physical! The fact that you
can never trust a junkie is not a physical phenomenon.
>
> >The fact that you were able to stop using the drug so easily was
> >probably more to do with your state of mind than anyhting physcial. The
> >majority of users aren't so lucky as to be so psychologically well
> >endowed.
Nothing about George Mary is "well endowed" -- other than
her Methadone prescription and drug cabinet.
>
> Stopped using drugs so easily:? Au contraire. It was quite
> a difficult journey and took two years of effort.
A "journey" that took George Mary to drug smacktivism.
However, George Mary remains a pathological liar. She
fails to mention her methadone addiction and her
swapping of one addiction for another -- smacktivism.
> There is unquestionably a
> psychological component in the sense that the drug using lifestyle
> takes a lot of time and attention.
It isn't easy being a heroin junkie gay-trash scumbag.
That takes work!
Besides, the "time and attention" George Mary glosses over
has more to do with what she had to do to pay for her smack.
> Giving up any type of habit means
> you have more free time to do other things--
Yeah, like crawling out from under a bridge and finding
a real job. George Mary's still looking for the real job.
She's been in a 10-year denial phase.
> and to the extent one may facilitate finding useful, enjoyable
> activities to replace the habit behavior,
Sure -- like giving bad medical advice to desperate people
with fatal diseases -- and, best of all, pretending that
HE HAS THE FUCKING DISEASE! (See POZ, "Dr. Me" -- an
embarassing column by George Mary that reads as if Dr. Me
is "Dr. HIV+ Me-Too" -- but she's HIV-negatory!
> I agree there is a psychological set of issues
> with which to contend.
Yeah -- psychological issues ... still. George Mary failed
any attempt at rehab -- for obvious reasons -- denial is just
one -- being an asshole is central to her hostility towards
criticism. Meanwhile, methadone and smacktivism are George Mary's
"support system".
>
> George Mary Carter, A Real Piece of Work
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Or methadone. George Mary "conveniently" the central
>treatment.
Methadone is useful for some people. It is not the best answer. I did
not use it. What is your point?
>> In addition, the brain is a physiological organ.
>Not psychological? In George Mary the miniscule brain is
>little more than a lie factory.
I didn't say "not psychological," dear, you did.
>> The effects of heroin are specific to the
>> endorphin system. To that extent, the relationship is clearly
>> physical.
>No, the effects are NOT merely physical! The fact that you
>can never trust a junkie is not a physical phenomenon.
I didn't say "merely physical" dear, you did. As to trusting a
junky--this is funny coming from a paid whore of the multibillion
dollar a year prison industry!!!
>> >The fact that you were able to stop using the drug so easily was
>> >probably more to do with your state of mind than anyhting physcial. The
>> >majority of users aren't so lucky as to be so psychologically well
>> >endowed.
>Nothing about George Mary is "well endowed" -- other than
>her Methadone prescription and drug cabinet.
>>
>> Stopped using drugs so easily:? Au contraire. It was quite
>> a difficult journey and took two years of effort.
>A "journey" that took George Mary to drug smacktivism.
Your term. You seem to have become addicted to being an asshole. I
feel sorry for you frod.
>However, George Mary remains a pathological liar. She
>fails to mention her methadone addiction and her
>swapping of one addiction for another -- smacktivism.
I don't take and didn't use methadone. But I certainly consider what
I'm doing now better than playing the junk game.
snip
>Besides, the "time and attention" George Mary glosses over
>has more to do with what she had to do to pay for her smack.
I don't use heroin, dear. By the way, how much do you get as a paid
whore of the multi-billion dollar prison industry?
>> Giving up any type of habit means
>> you have more free time to do other things--
>Yeah, like crawling out from under a bridge and finding
>a real job. George Mary's still looking for the real job.
>She's been in a 10-year denial phase.
And what is your real job? You've never specifically responded to this
question except with vague references to "paying yourself" (leading
one to suspect you have a color photocopier you use to make extra
cash.)
Snipping the remainder of your delirium.
Science, Frod? No. As usual. You have nothing of substance to offer.
Only your opinions, which, as you say, are indeed quite irrelevant.
Please find help, dear.
George M. Carter
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>George Mary, you haven't offered a synthesis of the research,
>with citations and relevant quotations to illustrate how you
>arrive at these "conclusions".
No conclusions. Merely a string of observations that were previously
supported with citations from researchers.
snip..
>Please, I would love to debate the issue with you, but you
>have shown no real comprehension of the subject.
Well, dear, start debating! Simply address the observations for which
I've posted the evidence. If you wish to discuss NAC, that is a
separate thread (another tired diversionry tactic, Frod).
>By definition, George Mary, in her DAAIR position, is
>the one who promotes (publicizes and sells) DNCB, not I.
More semantic gamesmanship. I do not sell any DAAIR products so your
definition is inaccurate. But for you to suddenly play this silly
game is the height of silliness. Or have you changed your mind about
DNCB/uroshiol? You are indeed a weasely fellow.
George M. Carter
fred
> >with citations and relevant quotations to illustrate how you
> >arrive at these "conclusions".
>
> No conclusions.
You are full of shit.
Yes indeed -- you HAVE arrived at unsupportable conclusions.
> Merely a string of observations that were previously
> supported with citations from researchers.
Irrational "observations" with no context. You lie.
> snip..
>
> >Please, I would love to debate the issue with you, but you
> >have shown no real comprehension of the subject.
>
> Well, dear, start debating! Simply address the observations for which
> I've posted the evidence.
You cannot discuss those "observations". You cannot put
those "observations" in any true context. All you do is
deceive and lie. How can anyone debate an anti-debater?
> If you wish to discuss NAC, that is a
> separate thread (another tired diversionry tactic, Frod).
Not a diversion -- just a prime example of the real you
in "debate" mode.
> >By definition, George Mary, in her DAAIR position, is
> >the one who promotes (publicizes and sells) DNCB, not I.
>
> More semantic gamesmanship.
The facts always appear to you that way.
> I do not sell any DAAIR products so your
> definition is inaccurate.
You lie. You work for DAAIR. DAAIR sells DNCB as an
alternative. You are the "manager" of alternative
treatments. You do, in fact, sell DNCB in every
sense of the word.
You are a pathological liar, that's all.
> But for you to suddenly play this silly
> game is the height of silliness.
You are a silly little girl, George Mary Know-Nothing.
> Or have you changed your mind about
> DNCB/uroshiol?
Nope.
> You are indeed a weasely fellow.
No, I'm not in your family tree.
fred
> >treatment.
>
> Methadone is useful for some people. It is not the best answer. I did
> not use it. What is your point?
My point: you're a bald face liar.
>
> >> In addition, the brain is a physiological organ.
>
> >Not psychological? In George Mary the miniscule brain is
> >little more than a lie factory.
>
> I didn't say "not psychological," dear, you did.
Let's roll back the unsnipped facts to reveal the weasle
that pops out of this freakazoid's little brain:
> Well, I think we need to define how "psychological" and "physical"
are
> being distinguished. Do you have references to point to or some
> abstracts? Heroin withdrawal, I assure you, is a very unpleasant,
> very physical experience! That discomfort is either alleviated by
> adding heroin or by a lot patience and time.
Or methadone. George Mary "conveniently" the central
treatment.
> In addition, the brain is a physiological organ.
You said the brain was physiological in reply to a
psychological assertion which you conveniently snipped,
asshole!
Typical.
>
> >> The effects of heroin are specific to the
> >> endorphin system. To that extent, the relationship is clearly
> >> physical.
>
> >No, the effects are NOT merely physical! The fact that you
> >can never trust a junkie is not a physical phenomenon.
>
> I didn't say "merely physical" dear, you did.
You lie! Your quote is self-evident:
"The effects of heroin are specific to the endorphin system.
To that extent, the relationship is clearly physical."
Any questions?
> As to trusting a junky--this is funny coming from a
> paid whore of the multibillion dollar a year prison industry!!!
DISTRACTION AND SMOKESCREEN TIME FOLKS!!!
That IS funny -- I never worked for the prison industry!
I was a probation/parole officer for the State of Florida
in the 1970's. At that time, nobody, but nobody, referred
to a "prison industry".
More George Mary Carter freakazoid stupidity and lies!
> >> >The fact that you were able to stop using the drug so easily was
> >> >probably more to do with your state of mind than anyhting physcial. The
> >> >majority of users aren't so lucky as to be so psychologically well
> >> >endowed.
>
> >Nothing about George Mary is "well endowed" -- other than
> >her Methadone prescription and drug cabinet.
> >>
> >> Stopped using drugs so easily:? Au contraire. It was quite
> >> a difficult journey and took two years of effort.
>
> >A "journey" that took George Mary to drug smacktivism.
>
> Your term. You seem to have become addicted to being an asshole. I
> feel sorry for you frod.
Sure -- I coined the term for the phenomenon -- let's see your
words which describe it better than I ever will:
> On December 8, 1997 George M. Carter revealed the divine
> inspiration that delivered him onto the world of activism
> in Message-ID: <66h5b4$1...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>:
>
> "I joined ACT UP in 1989 because I knew I
> needed to do something with my life to replace
> the heroin habit."
>
> Note the reference to "the heroin habit" instead of
> "my heroin habit". Clearly, George Carter never went
> through any sort of recovery, he simply switched his
> addiction -- Carter states:
>
> "I am neither proud nor ashamed that I was a junky."
>
> He clearly has not dealt with the issue whatsoever.
>
> "The Narcotics Anonymous groups did not work for me."
>
> Unfortunately, neither did activism.
>
> "At the time, I had not been tested for HIV but had
> every reason to believe I was HIV+ (being gay and
> having shared needles). ... It took me a couple of
> years before I got tested. Basically, having no
> health insurance, I figured there wasn't a lot
> of point -- and at the time, AZT monotherapy didn't
> look like much of an option anyway."
>
> A couple of years to get tested? Because of AZT monotherapy?
> Odd, AZT "monotherapy" was only given that designation years
> later -- from 1989 to the early 1990s nobody rejected AZT
> because it was a monotherapy -- they rejected it because of
> it's toxicity and lack of benefit.
>
> "I am a violinist and ex-performance artist."
>
> Playing the violin for for his unconvincing performances
> are key strategies for Carter the victim.
>
> "I'm not sorry I didn't finish college but by dint of my
> own efforts and the help of friends, activists, researchers,
> I've learned enough to do medical writing."
>
> Medical writing? Hardly. Bad unresearched fiction? Absolutely!
>
> "I have, despite your (oops) Shaw's assertions, not the
> slightest desire to be a physician."
>
> I never asserted that Carter wanted to be a physician. Carter's
> problem is obvious: he delusionally believes he already is one!
>
> "The insinuation or claim that I take pharmaceutical company
> money is false. Aside from Arkopharma and the trip to France,
> discussed ad nauseam, I've not taken any money from any
> other naturopathic, herbal, vitamin or other company."
>
> "It would be nice if I could do all my work for nothing but
> there is a little thing called reality which includes items
> like rent, food, clothing. I live pretty frugally by choice."
>
> If you live frugally by choice then economics aren't an
> issue for you -- which means the Arkopharma vacation to
> France was merely a boondoggle and waste of money that
> would have been better spent by those you profess to "help"!
>
> "I've done my best and will continue to do my best
> to provide information to help people create their
> own approach."
>
> "... Because no single remedy has done the trick yet.
> You, on the other hand, appear to feel that people
> would be better off doing nothing and waiting for an
> opportunistic infection to kill them. That is profoundly evil."
>
> Where and when did I make this assertion??? Prove it because
> it is untrue, a lie! I would say it is you who is revealed
> to be the evil one -- this and other lies of necessity are
> self-evident!
>
>
> =========================
>
> Subject: Re: DNCB Smear Campaign, The Anatomy of a
> From: gm...@ix.netcom.com (George M. Carter)
> Date: 1997/12/08
> Message-ID: <66h5b4$1...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
> X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Dec 08 9:56:20 AM CST 1997
> Reply-To: gm...@ix.netcom.com
> Newsgroups: misc.health.aids
>
> lenti...@aol.com (Lentivirus) wrote:
>
> >Carter has no medical training and does not even have a college
> >degree. He is an HIV negative, semi-employed, ex-heroin addict
> >who found AIDS as an opportunity for companionship and
> >employment.
>
> This is basically true if a narrow depiction of who I am (although
> most of my work I've done as an activist--meaning volunteer). I joined
> ACT UP in 1989 because I knew I needed to do something with my life to
> replace the heroin habit. Many of my friends had HIV and several had
> died by that point.
>
> At the time, I had not been tested for HIV but had every reason to
> believe I was HIV+ (being gay and having shared needles). The
> Narcotics Anonymous groups did not work for me. And when I went to my
> first meeting, I met some of the most incredible, passionate,
> brilliant people I've ever met in my life. Too many of whom have since
> died. It took me a couple of years before I got tested. Basically,
> having no health insurance, I figured there wasn't a lot of point--and
> at the time, AZT monotherapy didn't look like much of an option
> anyway.
>
> It would appear by the above that you are trying to play the nasty
> game of ooh, you are a bad and ignorant boy. A kind of pathetic
> hauteur coming from an anonymous poster! I am neither proud nor
> ashamed that I was a junky. I met some pretty interesting people and,
> just like this newsgroup!, some genuine assholes. I'm not sorry I
> didn't finish college but by dint of my own efforts and the help of
> friends, activists, researchers, I've learned enough to do medical
> writing. I have, despite your (oops) Shaw's assertions, not the
> slightest desire to be a physician.
>
> Aside from the above, since you seem so fascinated by who I am and
> like to share slanted tidbits, I am a violinist and ex-performance
> artist.
>
> >Pretty sad, actually, considering all the damage he has
> >done promoting impotent and potentially harmful therapies for
> >which he is reimbursed.
>
> Yes, I've worked for DAAIR and they sell stuff. The insinuation or
> claim that I take pharmaceutical company money is false. Aside from
> Arkopharma and the trip to France, discussed ad nauseam, I've not
> taken any money from any other naturopathic, herbal, vitamin or other
> company. It would be nice if I could do all my work for nothing but
> there is a little thing called reality which includes items like rent,
> food, clothing. I live pretty frugally by choice.
>
> I've done my best and will continue to do my best to provide
> information to help people create their own approach. And I will
> continue to pressure NIH to conduct meaningful clinical studies to
> assess different approaches. Because no single remedy has done the
> trick yet. You, on the other hand, appear to feel that people would be
> better off doing nothing and waiting for an opportunistic infection to
> kill them. That is profoundly evil.
>
> This type of sleazy distortion is typical of you Frod. (Oh, oops, I
> forgot...you're not Frod...you just another cowardly shit with a yen
> to diss any treatment that works...I wonder why you are really here?)
>
> Whoever you are, I wish the best of luck to you and a healing of the
> pain that clearly has destroyed your rational abilities. Try and focus
> on the real problem--ending AIDS. You might find it more useful.
>
> I would presume we share that as a common goal. But then maybe it
> isn't your goal after all.
>
> George M. Carter
>
> >However, George Mary remains a pathological liar. She
> >fails to mention her methadone addiction and her
> >swapping of one addiction for another -- smacktivism.
>
> I don't take and didn't use methadone. But I certainly consider what
> I'm doing now better than playing the junk game.
Its exactly the same "junk game", only this one is deadlier.
Here you get off by playing doctor, as in POZ "Dr. Me".
>
> snip
>
> >Besides, the "time and attention" George Mary glosses over
> >has more to do with what she had to do to pay for her smack.
>
> I don't use heroin, dear.
Liar.
>
> >> Giving up any type of habit means
> >> you have more free time to do other things--
>
> >Yeah, like crawling out from under a bridge and finding
> >a real job. George Mary's still looking for the real job.
> >She's been in a 10-year denial phase.
>
> And what is your real job?
Irrelevant -- you're the pharmaceutical activist -- I make no
money from AIDS, that's all freaks like you need to know.
<snip freakazoid George Mayer (Mary) self-promotional>
fred
Emma Chase-Van Cott
Larry Cashion (la...@midcoast.com.au) wrote:
: George M. Carter wrote:
: >
: >
: > I disagree. The definition of an addict is someone who is "devoted to"
: > or "given up" to a habit. In the case of heroin, it is associated with
: > a physical need to use the drug to prevent feeling sick.
:
: Actually George,
:
: There is a large and growing school of psychological thought that the
: major basis of addictions, including those of opiate drugs such as
: heroin, are based far more on psychological symptoms of addiction than
: physical - some estimates giving psychological factors as 80% of the
: reason for addiction.
Of course they are in the head. That's where the mu, kappa & sigma
opioid receptors lie. It's is neurochemical, and very real physical
addiction. Opioid receptors are proven physiological entities.
emma
:)
George M. Carter
fred <fred...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Methadone is useful for some people. It is not the best answer. I did
>> not use it. What is your point?
>My point: you're a bald face liar.
Name calling precludes reasonable debate.
George M. Carter