Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
Jim
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
Medical News Comentaries
17 December 2009 9 Comments
Dear IMVA,
Yesterday I received a disturbing email from Greg Caton’s wife,
naturopath Dr. Cathryn Caton, that her husband was arrested in Ecuador
on December 2, 2009 at a premeditated license check point by
Ecuadorian police. He was then quickly handed over to United States
agents and taken forcibly onto an American Airlines plane against a
judge’s objections. Cathryn has not heard from him since.
I know them for they have recently built a mountain top home in
Ecuador. They sell one of the types of iodine I recommend and we
talked many a late night on skype. Greg is an inspired type who has
been around the block in the nutrition and cancer area and has run
into trouble with the United States government before.
There are a few of us who have escaped down here to the relative
safety of South or Central America. People like me, Mike Adams and
there was Greg, all of us medical and health freedom fighters
resisting the dark empire of the FDA and CDC pharmaceutical universe.
These and other medical and health institutions are the creators and
enforcers of a devastating form of medicine. From our perspective the
United States government is foul, running the greatest terror making
organization in the solar system. Though it is hard to separate the
Americans from the old European lust for conquest and domination.
Certainly their bankers are still playing the oldest and nastiest of
games. Mike Adams interviewed Cathryn and in the second part of the
tape he shares passionately about the war against healers who are
trying to help people. For more on the story click here.
But what can you expect from the only government in the world that
used nuclear weapons on civilian populations and depleted Uranium
weapons in large quantities in Iraq and Afghanistan releasing
staggering amounts of Uranium Oxide into the atmosphere. This is nasty
stuff with a shelf life of billions of years so it’s going to be
around for quite a while thanks to our friendly world dominating
government.
Many times through the years I have gotten letters from readers
remarking about my courage and actually I try to forget about these
communications and the reality they represent as quickly as possible
because even the most courageous heart can feel fear. My commitment to
Medical Veritas – medical truth – has led me to some interesting
discoveries and probably made me some not so interesting enemies.
I have to have courage because what other choice does one have when
facing and trying to live with truth. One reader wrote me saying,
“Just want to say you never seem to be out of step with the state of
decay in the world, something that is evidence of a more divine
ordering in ones existence, so God bless you as you give the truth for
what it is. You are riding high on the light in a world of darkness.”
For me the heart (spiritual part of the pump) is the truth of human
life and one of the most interesting things about the heart (that
Christ and others have talked about) was that it has no tolerance for
liars and lies. Infidelity, what is it that tears people apart? It’s
not the sex it’s the lying about it. It’s the breaking of trust that
disrupts so terribly.
Anyone who has ever experienced trying to hide something meaningful
from someone loved knows the anguish of the heart as it has to suffer
the mind’s increasing need to justify and explain to itself ones
untruthful position. The trap is that it is impossible for the heart
to live (be open) with a lie because the heart is the truth. So once
an infidelity happens the heart gets buried under the weight of the
minds increasing velocity of justifications meaning the heart closes.
It hurts too much to stay open so it closes.
I share that because it really hurts and scares me to think of someone
taking me away from my wife and kids. It makes me think of the Nazi
times that seem to be coming back and Mike Adams mirrors these
thoughts at the end of his audio file above. I think of Cathryn and my
heart goes out to her and her feelings. I don’t want to feel the hurt
and sinking feeling of having something like this happen but it’s hard
to escape when writing about the things I do.
In my case I have to not only be protective for personal reasons but
also for this new form of medicine that I am bringing to people
everywhere on earth. Some people have this unexplained capacity to
dream big but in my case it is my close relationship with my highest
self (yes took two decades out of my life to be a recluse meditating
on the meaning of life and the meaning of pure consciousness).
Another reader wrote me saying, “My Sedona friend and author J.
Hamilton says, “Visionaries thrive in all times”. Dr. Mark is a
visionary and one of those special beings who follows the Bodhisattva
path and gives his Brave heart medicine to all he touches. May he fare
well for all beings’ benefit and continue to manifest his love for the
world through his writings and brilliant clarity. Yours is a voice of
truth in the midst of the growing insanity.”
The point is that I do have this love for humanity and the most
positive expression of that is in this Natural Allopathic Medicine
that I am shouting from the roof tops about. It is certainly new,
though it uses very old remedies like iodine and sodium bicarbonate. I
added magnesium chloride into the mix creating the most perfect and
primary combination of medicinals with all three being plucked right
out of emergency rooms and intensive care wards everywhere, where
these substances are used daily – but not for chronic diseases.
For life saving situations I call this protocol Natural Emergency
Medicine but for cancer and other serious diseases the treatments can
be applied every two or three hours harnessing the raw emergency life
saving power of these widely available highly concentrated “food”
medicines. They have a powerful moving effect on chronic conditions
because each of the agents in the protocol addresses fundamental
physiological issues.
What I am struggling to say is that the most important thing for me is
that the Natural Allopathic Medical approach not be smothered by the
medical Gestapo, by the FDA or anyone else. So if anything ever
happens to me it is all my readers who will need to carry on the light
and coordinate and organize and assist my family as I hope now many
will do for Cathryn.
Below is most of the content I and many received from her yesterday.
Please read and please care.
Mark Sircus, Ac., OMD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1984 my husband founded Consumer Express, which later became
Nutrition for Life International (briefly traded on the NASDAQ stock
exchange as “NFLI”). In 1995 he created Alpha Omega Labs
(herbhealers.com / altcancer.com), which became a provider of over 300
alternative health products with 14 distributors around the world,
before its closure by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration in
September, 2003.
It successfully reopened in Ecuador in June, 2008.
Alpha Omega Labs is best known for Cansema® — an effective cure for
skin cancer, based on suppressed formulary information dating back to
the 1850’s. Over a 13 year period, Alpha Omega Labs was responsible
for curing thousands of cancer cases.
In 2007, Greg and his wife received residential Visas to live in
Ecuador. The Ecuadorian government had granted us all the proper
permits to manufacture and sell our herbal products from within
Ecuador at that time. And so, we legally reopened Alpha Omega Labs in
the summer of 2008 in Ecuador.
As of 2007, Greg had 1.5 years left to serve on his probation. He had
already been granted permission to fly back and forth from the US to
Ecuador and was hoping to have his probation commuted. However,
because of the involvement of an extremely corrupt FDA agent by the
name of John Armand, who had Greg arrested in 2003, we made a joint
decision to stay here in Ecuador and not travel until his probation
period had been completed. A clear and concise description of Greg’s
first persecution by the US government can be found on: www.meditopia.org
An archive of Greg’s newsletters can be found here: http://www.altcancer.com/ashwarch.htm
On December 2, 2009, Greg was arrested here in Ecuador at a
premeditated license check point by Ecuadorian police. Completely
false charges were brought against him. The charges were that Greg
was in Ecuador illegally and that we were selling herbal products
illegally.
At the first hearing, we had no trouble showing the judge that the
charges were false which proved Greg’s innocence. As a result, the
judge signed papers to have Greg released from jail. However, the
police chief here has the final say as to which inmate is ultimately
released or not, and by the time the judge arrived, the police chief
had already been heavily pressured and bribed by the U.S. government.
This resulted in him signing paper work to deport Greg… illegally.
We appealed the police chief’s decision. However, at the second
hearing, the Judge essentially froze and said he was not qualified to
make a ruling on the case. We noticed that a US consulate official was
in the hearing room at that moment. Some Ecuadorian Judges have
residential visas in the US and do not want to piss off the US for
fear of losing them.
We filed another appeal. This appeal was approved and a hearing was
scheduled for December 14th or 15th, 2009. I then received a phone
call from Greg this morning: Dec. 12, 2009. He told me that whatever
legal work we were doing was not working. He said he was calling me
from the airport where authorities were preparing to fly him to the US…
illegally.
I immediately called our assistant who called our attorney who called
the new judge. The new judge drove to the chief of police to release
him from his authority over this case. The judge then drove to the
airport to stop immigration from deporting Greg. Immigration had him
flying out on American airlines flight no. 952 from Guayaquil, Ecuador
to Miami, Florida.
Before the judge got to the airport, our assistant told the police who
were holding Greg at the gate that the judge was on his way with paper
work for Greg to not leave the country. The man from the U.S. State
Department immediately put Greg on the plane (in my opinion…illegally
kidnapping Greg) and told our assistant that he was now in American
territory (the American Airlines plane) and could not be removed.
The judge then arrived with the appropriate paper work and explained
that Greg was not to be flown out of the country but he was ignored by
American Airlines when he attempted to have Greg removed from the
plane, at which point the plane took off. The judge then talked to the
airport tower to have the American Airlines flight stopped. Both
American Airlines and the pilot refused to listen. The judge then
called a general in the Ecuadorian military to have the plane stopped
by forcing it to land in Quito. American Airlines refused to listen.
All of the above took place while the American Airlines plane was
within the country of Ecuador and subject to Ecuadorian law.
I have not heard from my husband since.
People need to understand that what the U.S. government did today….was
totally illegal under Ecuadorian law.
If we are to successfully fight this kind of evil….
WE MUST STAND TOGETHER.
In order to win this fight once and for all…the countless numbers of
people who have cured themselves naturally from any disease need to
stand up and tell their story to as many people as possible.
In 2003, after Greg’s arrest by the FDA and our herbal company had
been shut down, one of the phone calls we received was from a woman
who had cured herself of breast cancer using our products. She had
tried to get her story told on the Oprah Winfrey show. She was told
by the Oprah staff that they could not air her story because the Oprah
Winfrey Show was supported by the pharmaceutical companies.
So here we have Oprah Winfrey, one of the most influential, wealthy
personalities on the planet controlled by the pharmaceutical
companies. She is not alone…
If you or anyone you know has cured themselves naturally of any
disease please stand up now and do whatever it takes to get your story
told in the main stream media.
We must stand up together if we are to transform this evil.
Cathryn Caton, N.D.
Cathryn asks that her message be circulated as much as possible. A web
site is in the process of being established for the archiving of
statements by individuals who have cured any disease using natural
means: http://www.icureditnaturally.com
If you or anyone you know would like to stand and be counted by
submitting the testimony of your cure, please send an email to:
icuredit...@gmail.com
Please write a brief letter introducing yourself and include a brief
description of your journey of healing. You will then receive a reply
by email that will explain how you should submit your story and what
forms of substantiation will be required in order for your story to be
included on the web site.
Thank you.
. Email This Post Print This Post 9 Comments »
Joyce Duke said:
It seems that the world conspirators do not want anyone successfully
treating illness/disability with anything not controlled by the
goverment and the moneyed pharmaceuticals to succeed. It is not just
our government, but it is worldwide and it seems that all governments
are involved in it at this time. Anyone
proving to the contrary, decreases their chance to ram government
controlled health care,total government control over most of our lives
in every area (hence the worldwide push from UN/WHO/
governments (including the US) by forcing the Codex Alimentarius
and other unwanted laws to control the toxins in our foods, water
supply, etc., health care mandates, etc. We are fighting the same
battles here in America at this time.
We don’t like the idea of being under martial law if WHO declares
a pandemic level of (currently the swine flu-which is a genetic
engineering job from a laboratory) with forced vaccinations, $1000
daily fines if madated health care is refused and/or incarceration,
any more than anyone else does. However if this corrupt administration
has its way, we will be in the same boat planetwide
with contaminated food supplies, loaded with GMO’s and toxins such as
monosodium glutamate, aspartame, and sodium fluorides.
Nor do I like the idea that the UN should decide what will be taught
the children in our schools. I don’t know about Ecuador’s government,
but our present administration is the worst one I have seen in my
almost 77 years.
No government seems to be able to differentiate between actual science
and “cooked up science” even after the recent exposure of
the scientific lies the great scientific minds concocted regarding
“climategate”. They are all still hell-bent on pushing through a
toxic emissions reduction Cap & Trade Bill, despite the lack of any
real evidence of an actual climate warming. It seems that the honest
scientists say that we have actually been cooling over the last decade
and are headed into an ice age.
.# 17 December 2009 at 11:19 pm
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador «
En blogg om hälsa och sjukdom said:
[...] Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in
Ecuador december 17, 2009 — shimmeringblade Original article on
International Medical Veritas with radio intervju with Cathryn Caton
by Mike Adams here [...]
.# 17 December 2009 at 11:50 pm
Sandy Sanderson said:
To Greg and Cathryn Caton… our thoughts are with you. Keep your hopes
up because all your good karma will come to support you… Humanity will
support you… Ecuador and South America will support you. Evil cannot
triumph because Goodness always wins in the end despite attempts to
suppress and oppress it.
Regards, Sandy and Peter Sanderson
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
http://www.elektralife.com
.# 18 December 2009 at 1:27 am
Dan Niemeyer said:
I realize that you are requesting people to step forward if they can
testify to being cured of disease through natural means, however,
sadly, this will make little difference. If all it took was to show
the government that people were being cured through natural products,
this controversy would have been over years ago. Our government is not
interested in a cure for cancer, or any other disease for that matter.
We call ourselves a free nation, but nothing could be further from the
truth. There’s a saying in the bible that in the latter days people
would call good ‘evil’, and evil ‘good’. Sunshine, herbs, raw milk,
ozone, and a myriad of vitamins and supplements are all labled as bad.
Chemotherapy, radiation, genetically-altered food, chlorine and
flouride-laced water, mercury containing vaccines, and a host of
chemicals and drugs are all now good for us. They are good for only
one thing, lining the pockets of drug companies and special interest
groups on the corpses of the uninformed. Don’t be surprised that Oprah
is just another puppet. And don’t be surprised that our government is
the most corrupt establishment on the face of the earth. Do you think
Nazi Germany could not happen here in America? Look up the company
Bayer, the next time you reach for that bottle of aspirin. This
company’s roots go straight to the concentration camps of Aushwitz.
.# 18 December 2009 at 3:13 am
Carlos said:
When my younger brother got Linfoma at age 30, our third world country
doctors who had diagnosed him wanted to start chemotherapy right away
(I mean even before he was awake from the biopsy procedure). We were
appalled and stopped the chemo. We took him to M. D. Anderson in
Houston, Texas. There they told us he would have about a month to
prepare himself for the first chemo (dentist, sperm bank,
nutritionist, councelling, etc., just to have him ready). It all
became as disappointing as the first experience back home when I
naively asked a team of spetialists in Houston what the cause for my
brother´s cancer was. Here is what the chief oncologist replied: “We
have enough trouble trying to treat your borther´s cancer to be
worrying about finding the cause”. Of course my brother lost his
battle against cancer. After countless of tests and $200,000 dollars
worth of chemo and radiotherapy he was not well at all. I concluded
both treatments only got him worse faster. The Houston doctors gave up
on my brother and told me he had two months left to live, but he
actually had almost two years of better quality life thanks to natural
medicine. Please keep up the good work and your valuable efforts for
those in need of real healthcare.
.# 18 December 2009 at 4:48 am
Robert said:
To Cathryn&Greg…I am so sorry to hear this devistating news!…Please be
strong for those people who do this will pay for there crimes!…My you
find strength in the love from all the good people who truely “love”
and beleive in YOU!!!!You would be very welcome in New Zealand
anytime… Robert
.# 18 December 2009 at 5:01 am
Joan said:
If you are reading this, why not say a prayer right now for Greg’s
release? Prayer does work. I suggest this prayer:
Creator, the Universe or the Source of all there is, please open the
doors that hold Greg and allow him to walk free and allow all charges
to be dismissed. Open doors for Greg that should be open and close
doors that should be closed. Protect him and his family and bring
comfort to them as well. Bind our enemies and bring to them the
hardships and pain they have imposed on us all and on Greg and his
family. Amen
Just remember that the day is coming when those who have hurt us will
receive their just punishment and that day may not be very far away.
Keep Greg and Cathryn in your prayers because a threat to them is a
threat to us all. Even those who have not been healed of cancer or
another disease should fight this good fight, otherwise there will be
no natural cure when we may need it. Thanks to all who have read this
and prayed. Remain steadfast Cathryn in your fight to do what is right
and keep hope in your heart. We are all pulling for you and Greg.
.# 18 December 2009 at 6:01 am
Trevor said:
The truth about paharmaceutical companies, food resource giants like
Monsanto, CODEX, The FDA, The Federal Reserve and the Illuminati is
far more frightening than any writer of conspiritational horror novels
could ever imagine. It makes the macinations of The Church in
centuries past, look like a Sunday School Picnic. It makes Hitler and
his insane regime, look relatively open and straight forward (and no,
there is nothing anti-sementic in that comment or any suggestion that
millions of innocent jews were not horribly eliminated).
It must change and it will change but there might be a bloody and
awful cost for humanity, before light shines on this darkness.
.# 18 December 2009 at 6:34 am
arthur said:
To every freedom loving person in the world. Please join in the
prayers and hopes for a saner more loving world, where the massive
providers of poisons will never again be able to raise their corrupt
heads. Love and pease to you all. Arthur in Paraguay.
Mark Probert
> Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> Medical News Comentaries
> 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> Dear IMVA,
>
> Yesterday I received a disturbing email from Greg Caton’s wife,
>
This the same Gregory James Caton previously convicted of a Felony
crime in 1990?
The same Gregory James Caton charged with Felon in Possession of
firearms in 2003? (A lot of them.)
Read the indictment yourself. http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document1.pdf
He agreed to the prosecution without indictment by the Grand Jury.
http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document2.pdf
He entered a plea of Guilty and accepted Judgment http://www.meditopia.org
/docs/04-20075-01.document3.pdf
He agreed to a fine of $250k and 5 years minimum.
http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document4.pdf
And then after he was let out he skipped on his probation, moved to
another country with lax laws to do the same thing all over again.
All of the case docs here: http://www.meditopia.org/docs/
No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
Tim Campbell
around alt meds; not guns.
Mark Probert
> Do read Mark's Meditopia doc. The charges clearly, primarily center
> around alt meds; not guns.
Yeah, like ripping off a woman for $950,000.
PeterB - Original
> On Dec 18, 1:39 pm, Jim <willcox...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> > Medical News Comentaries
> > 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> > Dear IMVA,
>
> > Yesterday I received a disturbing email from Greg Caton’s wife,
>
> This the same Gregory James Caton previously convicted of a Felony
> crime in 1990?
Yes, for selling herbals, which is a crime depending on how carefully
you step (and sometimes regardless) with regard to product labeling,
lest the seller encroach upon FDA's own monopoly of lies, the most
notable of which is that drugs prevent and cure disease. Metagenics
was once prosecuted for false claims about a calcium supplement, for
example, but they later won the case when the *existing* science was
produced to support their marketing claims.
> The same Gregory James Caton charged with Felon in Possession of
> firearms in 2003? (A lot of them.)
WOW, a gun owner and herbal medicine advocate all in the same body.
What's next, Bambi holding a Bowie?
> Read the indictment yourself.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document1.pdf
FDA's drug claims are the premise for charges against him, which means
it's a pretty safe bet that none of this was based on any science
whatsoever, but rather on the perceived risk of competitive threat by
FDA's buddies in the drug business.
> He agreed to the prosecution without indictment by the Grand Jury.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document2.pdf
>
> He entered a plea of Guilty and accepted Judgmenthttp://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document3.pdf
>
> He agreed to a fine of $250k and 5 years minimum.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document4.pdf
>
> And then after he was let out he skipped on his probation, moved to
> another country with lax laws to do the same thing all over again.
>
> All of the case docs here:http://www.meditopia.org/docs
What a busy penguin you are these days, Potemkin. You might want to
read the other side of the story on Caton's website, at
http://www.altcancer.com/h3o.htm.
> No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
nothing to you.
Peter B
news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
Medical News Comentaries
17 December 2009 9 Comments
>Anti US American BS snipped<
Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
all it was about. The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government. All at the
expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about why
the poor slob was arrested. Even the losers wife didn't have much to say
for him. It was all about the "cause". Hulda, freak that she was at
least had the guts to live in America and didn't run. Yes, she moved her
business outside the legal jurisdiction of the US, and yes she used
cheap labor and products, but she did not enslave mountain top natives
to do her dirty deeds.
I hope the guy stays in jail longer than the five years allotted to him.
Mark Probert
>
> > No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
>
> And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
> nothing to you.
Au contraire. However, there is no question that his marketing tactics
violarted Federal law. One does not get prosecuted without having
apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
He skipped that part. Even Hulda's Henchmen saw the wise thing to do
was to stop making unsupportable claims.
As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right
(one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
prisoners not being armed. If the right is inalienable, then even they
should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
lots of criminals.
PeterB - Original
>
> "Jim" <willcox...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> Medical News Comentaries
> 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
>Anti US American BS snipped<
It was not anti-American, dimwit, it was anti-bureaucratic
corruption. As usual, you take the side of the corrupt.
> Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
> all it was about.
No, dumbass, it was a complaint that sovereign law was ignored at the
behest of a NON elected bureaucratic agency, FDA, whose corrupt ties
to industry are a matter of record. That's what it is all about.
> The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.
That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
> All at the
> expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
http://www.rense.com/general88/fedkidnap.htm
> None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about why
> the poor slob was arrested.
The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
<remainder of newbie pharmnut rant snipped>
PeterB - Original
Oh? What proof do you have that his company's marketing violated
Federal Law?
> One does not get prosecuted without having
> apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how they were
false?
> He skipped that part. Even Hulda's Henchmen saw the wise thing to do
> was to stop making unsupportable claims.
You have only pointed to an indictment, no actual evidence of what was
claimed. Typical.
> As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
> absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right...
An "inalienable" right is not the same as one provided for under the
US Constitution.
> (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> prisoners not being armed.
Non sequitur. Prisoners are incarcerated with many rights suspended.
Caton was not in jail.
> If the right is inalienable, then even they
> should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> lots of criminals.
You are dangerous but somehow free. Don't tell me, you have an
"inalienable" right to practice stupidity without a license.
Jan Drew
>
> > No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
>
> And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
> nothing to you.
Mark S Probert is eager to talk about others, but lies over and over
about his own disbarrment.
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sandraprobert.htm
In the Matter of Mark Probert (Admitted as Mark S. Probert), a
Suspended Attorney, Respondent.
Grievance Committee for the Tenth Judicial District, Petitioner.
92-02731
SUPREME COURT OF NEW YORK, APPELLATE DIVISION, SECOND DEPARTMENT
183 A.D.2d 282; 590 N.Y.S.2d 747
November 9, 1992, Decided
PRIOR HISTORY: [***1]
Disciplinary proceedings instituted by the Grievance Committee for the
Tenth Judicial District. Respondent was admitted to the Bar on
February 15, 1978, at a term of the Appellate Division of the Supreme
Court in the Second Judicial Department, under the name Mark S.
Probert.
DISPOSITION: Ordered that the petitioner's motion to impose discipline
upon the respondent based upon his failure to appear or answer is
granted; and it is further,
HEADNOTES: Attorney and Client - Disciplinary Proceedings
Respondent attorney, who is charged with 22 counts of failing to
cooperate with investigations of alleged misconduct by the Grievance
Committee, and who has failed to answer or appear, is disbarred.
COUNSEL:
Frank A. Finnerty, Jr., Westbury (Muriel L. Gennosa of counsel), for
petitioner.
JUDGES: Mangano, P. J., Thompson, Bracken, Sullivan and Harwood, JJ.,
concur.
Ordered that the petitioner's motion to impose discipline upon the
respondent based upon his failure to appear or answer is granted; and
it is further,
Ordered that pursuant to Judiciary Law § 90, effective immediately,
the respondent, Mark Probert, is disbarred and his name is stricken
from the roll of attorneys and counselors-at-law; and it is further,
Ordered that the respondent shall continue to comply with this Court's
rules governing the conduct of disbarred, suspended and resigned
attorneys (22 NYCRR 691.10); and it is further,
Ordered that pursuant to Judiciary [***2] Law § 90, the respondent,
Mark Probert, is commanded to continue to desist and refrain (1) from
practicing law in any form, either as principal or as agent, clerk or
employee of another, (2) from appearing as an attorney or
counselor-at-law before any court, Judge, Justice, board, commission
or other public authority, (3) from giving to another an opinion as to
the law or its application or any advice in relation thereto, and (4)
from holding himself out in any way as an attorney and
counselor-at-law.
OPINIONBY: Per Curiam.
OPINION: [*282]
[**747] By decision and order of this Court dated September 29,
1989, the respondent was suspended from the practice of law until the
further order of this Court based upon his failure to cooperate with
the Grievance Committee. By further order of this Court dated June 4,
1992, the Grievance Committee was authorized to institute and
prosecute a disciplinary proceeding [*283] against the respondent
and the Honorable Moses M. Weinstein was appointed as Special Referee.
[**748] A notice of petition and petition was personally served upon
the respondent on July 2, 1992. No answer was forthcoming. The
petitioner now moves to hold the [***3] respondent in default. The
motion was personally served upon the respondent on August 14, 1992.
The respondent has failed to submit any papers in response to the
default motion.
The charges involve 22 counts of the respondent's failure to cooperate
with the Grievance Committee in its investigations into complaints of
professional misconduct.
The charges, if established, would require the imposition of a
disciplinary sanction against the respondent. Since the respondent has
chosen not to appear or answer in these proceedings, the charges must
be deemed established. The petitioner's motion to hold the respondent
in default and impose discipline is, therefore, granted. Accordingly,
the respondent is disbarred and his name is stricken from the roll of
attorneys and counselors-at-law, effective immediately
Source:
NY UNIFIED COURT SYSTEM, ATTORNEY REGIST. UNIT
Currency Status:
ARCHIVE RECORD
NAME & PROFESSIONAL INFORMATION
Name:
MARK PROBERT
Date Of Birth:
11/XX/1946
Gender:
MALE
Address:
1698 WEBSTER AVE
MERRICK, NY 11566
County:
NASSAU
Phone:
EMPLOYER INFORMATION
Employer:
MARK S PROBERT ESQ
Organization:
PERSON
LICENSING INFORMATION
Licensing Agency:
NY STATE OFFICE OF COURT ADMINISTRATION
License/Certification Type:
ATTORNEY
License Number:
1253889
Issue Date:
00/00/1978
License Status:
DISBARRED
License State:
NY
Kofi
> absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right
> (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> prisoners not being armed. If the right is inalienable, then even they
> should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> lots of criminals.
This is just false on its face. People have an inalienable right to
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - but you can be executed
with due process of the law when convicted for certain crimes. A
murderer alienates himself from that right to life by his actions *and*
since he is a citizen with a right to vote for the government who made
the laws he broke, those laws have been legitimately constituted. You
may not agree with those laws, but as a citizen you are still bound by
them. You can also lose the right to vote for similar reasons - or the
right to possess a gun. People often confuse procedural due process
with substantive due process.
Frankly, there is no absolute right to own a gun. The Second Amendment
deals with the defense of states by militias. For an individual to have
any chance at victory in a fight with the federal military - which is
why the NRA suggests we still need guns - frankly, you'd need to have
anthrax, tanks and atom bombs.
Mark Probert
Mark Probert
> > As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
> > absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right
> > (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> > prisoners not being armed. If the right is inalienable, then even they
> > should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> > lots of criminals.
>
> This is just false on its face.
I agree. However, the gun rights absolutist, who I used to debate on
RelayNet and FIDO, said differently. I was able to get them into a box
where they either conceded that the right is not absolute, or, that
prisoners have the right to be armed.
People have an inalienable right to
> life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - but you can be executed
> with due process of the law when convicted for certain crimes. A
> murderer alienates himself from that right to life by his actions *and*
> since he is a citizen with a right to vote for the government who made
> the laws he broke, those laws have been legitimately constituted. You
> may not agree with those laws, but as a citizen you are still bound by
> them. You can also lose the right to vote for similar reasons - or the
> right to possess a gun. People often confuse procedural due process
> with substantive due process.
>
> Frankly, there is no absolute right to own a gun. The Second Amendment
> deals with the defense of states by militias. For an individual to have
> any chance at victory in a fight with the federal military - which is
> why the NRA suggests we still need guns - frankly, you'd need to have
> anthrax, tanks and atom bombs.
There are those absolutists who believe that is the way things should
be. I have met them.
Peter Bowditch
I've heard the same absolutist nonsense from people in Australia. It
gets really bizarre when they start talking about some second
amendment to the Constitution. When I ask what giving the Commonwealth
the power to assume debts of the states has to do with guns they look
blank.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Peter B
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:49887a29-e3b2-4a30...@d21g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
================================================
What part of pleading guilty do you not get? There is no other side.
Peter B
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:135886c7-3b93-4e63...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
===========================================
There is only one such license, and you bought it. It is a matter of
public records.
Peter B
"Kofi" <ko...@anon.un> wrote in message
news:kofi-31B795.1...@news.east.earthlink.net...
Not so, sorry but your logic is lost on that last paragraph. The
military would be bombing their own homes, families and cities to carry
out such a deed. It also shows a lack of understanding regarding someone
in the military. There is a point, just around the corner, where they
would join the freedom fighters, This is why Obama put them on the watch
list.
Peter B
"Peter Bowditch" <myfir...@ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:4nooi55ep27q7dkat...@4ax.com...
We are a Republic, with a Constitution that makes the federal government
secondary to the States, They have effectively usurped that power, 4
states have declared Sovereignty. 14 are about to. Our gov't has no
right to assume debts, we have States rights, and any right not
specifically declared in the Constitution to be Federal is reserved by
the States. Like there, we have many dumb self centered voters.
Peter B
On Dec 18, 4:33 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> "Jim" <willcox...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> Medical News Comentaries
> 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
>Anti US American BS snipped<
It was not anti-American, dimwit, it was anti-bureaucratic
corruption. As usual, you take the side of the corrupt.
================================================
BEEP!!! You have exceeded your stupidity quota.
> Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
> all it was about.
No, dumbass, it was a complaint that sovereign law was ignored at the
behest of a NON elected bureaucratic agency, FDA, whose corrupt ties
to industry are a matter of record. That's what it is all about.
================================================
BEEP!!! BEEP!!! Read the figgen thing all the way to the end, icluding
the section from the agenda driven woman that was called his wife wrote
about. She didn't care two cents about his current plight, nor even
mentioned the truth about his arrest.
> The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.
That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
======================================================
Just who do you think is in power, dimwit. Just who controls the purse
strings dimwit? HMMMM?
> All at the
> expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
=====================================================
Post proof of why he was arrested, not heresay. What a dimwitted fool
you are.
> None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about
> why
> the poor slob was arrested.
The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
=======================================================
No, ignoranus. He "legally" set up his business in that country, he had
a right to sell there according to their laws.
You, suh, are injecting falsehoods, strawmen into a scenario about which
you have no understanding. Typical for imbeciles.
<remainder of newbie pharmnut rant snipped>
PP dimwit.
Mark Probert
See here:
SInce you are too lazy to go to the website, I will cut an paste the
relevant part:
Unapproved New Drugs Sold as Treatment for Cancer
This investigation was initiated based on information regarding the
illegal activities of a food processing plant called Lumen Food
Corporation, located in Lake Charles, Louisiana. Lumen Food
Corporation advertised products via an Internet website www.altcancer.com
under the name of Alpha Omega Labs, located in Nassau, Bahamas. These
products were advertised as containing medicinal qualities for the
treatment of cancer and many other diseases.
From 1999 to 2003, Gregory Caton, President of Lumen Food Corporation,
and his employees utilized Alpha Omega Labs to take direct orders for
these unapproved new drugs. The chemical substances were not approved
for sale by FDA. As a result of the scheme, Caton received
approximately $950,000. In order to legally market a drug in
interstate commerce, the drug’s manufacturer is required to comply
with all applicable provisions of the Act in order to ensure that the
products sold are safe for humans and effective for their intended
uses.
On at least two occasions known to FDA, the items shipped by Caton’s
firm and used by consumers resulted in bodily injury and harm. The
products were Cansema Tonic III and H3O. Cansema Tonic III was
advertised for use in the cure, mitigation, treatment or prevention of
cancer. H3O was advertised for use in the cure, mitigation, treatment,
or prevention of athlete’s foot, cuts and burns, eczema, fingernail
fungus, chronic gas, gastroenteritis, gingivitis and periodontal
disease, halitosis, herpes sores, ophthalmia, psoriasis, sore throat,
strep throat and wounds. Caton did not have an IND application on file
with FDA.
On September 17, 2003, a federal search warrant was executed at
Caton’s residence, Lumen Food Corporation, and an industrial site
owned by Caton. All of these locations were in Lake Charles,
Louisiana.
During the search of Caton’s residence, a cache of weapons were found
consisting of 3 semi-automatic rifles, 1 bolt action rifle, 2
shotguns, a semi-automatic pistol, 10/252 rounds of amunition, 3 body
armor vests, 1 leg armor and 2 bullet resistant helmets. The weapons,
armor and ammunition were found concealed in a hidden compartment that
was inside a closet. Caton was arrested on possession of firearms by a
convicted felon.
Numerous misbranded and unapproved new drugs were seized during the
search at Lumen Food Corporation, as well as items deemed as hazardous
materials by chemical engineers. Also seized were 16/55 gallon drums
of a liquid corrosive material at the industrial site owned by Caton.
This liquid was subsequently identified as sulfuric acid and was
mislabeled as non-corrosive. All of the hazardous materials seized
were subsequently destroyed by a hazardous materials disposal company.
On May 26, 2004, Caton was convicted of violating Title 18 U.S.C. 1341
- Mail Fraud; and Title 21 U.S.C. 331(d), 355(a) and 333(a)(2) -
Introduction into Interstate Commerce of Unapproved New Drugs. Caton
also forfeited 2 buildings and his residence in Lake Charles,
Louisiana.
On August 24, 2004, Caton was sentenced to 33 months incarceration to
be followed by 3 years supervised release.
Now, Petey, show us your skills as coming up with new meaning of
words, torturning logic, and whoing that you will defend anyone.
> > One does not get prosecuted without having
> > apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
>
> Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how they were
> false?
Wrong. I do not have to prove that they were false, Mr. Red Herring.
Caton had the burden of proof that his claims were true.
> > He skipped that part. Even Hulda's Henchmen saw the wise thing to do
> > was to stop making unsupportable claims.
>
> You have only pointed to an indictment, no actual evidence of what was
> claimed. Typical.
See the link above.
> > As for being a felon in possession, I often wonder how the gun right
> > absolutists, those who claim that owning a gun is an inalienable right...
>
> An "inalienable" right is not the same as one provided for under the
> US Constitution.
Quite true. The absolutists make that distinction.
> > (one that cannot be removed under any circumstances) and then support
> > prisoners not being armed.
>
> Non sequitur. Prisoners are incarcerated with many rights suspended.
> Caton was not in jail.
However, he had been jailed for conviction of a felony, and thus lost
his right to own or possess firearms. The fact that he did so shows
his disregard for the law.
> > If the right is inalienable, then even they
> > should be carrying. I heard that prison is a dangerous place, with
> > lots of criminals.
>
> You are dangerous but somehow free. Don't tell me, you have an
> "inalienable" right to practice stupidity without a license.-
When I inquired, I was told that you bought all of them.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:135886c7-3b93-4e63...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
You can now return to your sandbox, newbie.
Jan Drew
> On Dec 18, 6:06�pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Snip
No, I didn't post that. You did. What you snip I restore:
http://www.humanticsfoundation.com/sandraprobert.htm
92-02731
November 9, 1992, Decided
PRIOR HISTORY: [***1]
COUNSEL:
OPINIONBY: Per Curiam.
OPINION: [*282]
Source:
Currency Status:
ARCHIVE RECORD
NAME & PROFESSIONAL INFORMATION
Name:
MARK PROBERT
Date Of Birth:
11/XX/1946
Gender:
MALE
Address:
1698 WEBSTER AVE
MERRICK, NY 11566
County:
NASSAU
Phone:
EMPLOYER INFORMATION
Employer:
MARK S PROBERT ESQ
Organization:
PERSON
LICENSING INFORMATION
Licensing Agency:
License/Certification Type:
ATTORNEY
License Number:
1253889
Issue Date:
00/00/1978
License Status:
DISBARRED
License State:
NY
>
Jan Drew
The FDA=organized medicine and commit fraud.
>
> > > > > He entered a plea of Guilty and accepted Judgmenthttp://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document3.pdf
>
> > > > > He agreed to a fine of $250k and 5 years minimum.http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document4.pdf
>
> > > > > And then after he was let out he skipped on his probation, moved to
> > > > > another country with lax laws to do the same thing all over again.
>
> > > > > All of the case docs here:http://www.meditopia.org/docs
>
> > > > What a busy penguin you are these days, Potemkin. You might want to
> > > > read the other side of the story on Caton's website, athttp://www.altcancer.com/h3o.htm.
>
> > > > > No wonder Mikey Adams supports him.
There is no such person. Mike Adams tells it like it is, unlike you.
>
> > > > And you don't, because the rights of citizens in a free society mean
> > > > nothing to you.
>
> > > Au contraire. However, there is no question that his marketing tactics
> > > violarted Federal law.
>
> > Oh? What proof do you have that his company's marketing violated
> > Federal Law?
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ICECI/EnforcementActions/EnforcementStor...
FDA & CDC = Organized medicine and are proven liars who commit fraud.
<skip more speaking of the dead> Get help with your OCD.
How Cansema® Secured
Its Own FDA Approval
Read this eye-opening release . . . and so much more in the Ashwin
archive . . . HRx is reintroduced in the October, 2009 Ashwin, along
with our new Bioelectronic Therapy department . . . Read Meditopia.org
on the history of Alpha Omega Labs and Cansema®.
We reopened Alpha Omega Labs on June 2, 2008 and have been steadily
working on adding our old formulas (and a few new ones) since.
Unless otherwise specified, products are shipped from Guayaquil,
Ecuador -- at very competitive rates and delivery schedules.
Since we are able to provide a comparable product list for Cansema®
Salve, CanSupport, PhytoRx, Old Amish Dewormer, Neem and Acemannan
products from other vendors -- in addition to U.S. government
restrictions on some products -- some of our former products are not
being shipped into the United States. We will continue to ship our
other available products into the United States, with the exception of
H3O.
For the latest store availability, please see our order center. Our
product line-up now consists of roughly 160 of the more than 350
product items (or SKU's) we carried at the time of the FDA raid.
Approximately 40 additional products (including products from our old
order form) are planned for release in the next 60 days.
http://www.altcancer.com/cantest.htm#oleary
Brian O'Leary is a widely regarded author, scientist, and former NASA
astronaut. His 11 published books and numerous articles make
compelling arguments for the development of "free energy" -- and an
end to the suppression of disruptive technologies, in general, that
are necessary for the future of humanity. His Ecuadorean paradise in
Vilcabamba, Montesueños, serves as a retreat for like-minded thinkers,
writers, and other intellectuals.
Dr. Brian O'Leary's testimonial is the basis for a chapter in
Tomorrow's Cancer Cures Today: 25 Secret Therapies from Around the
World by Dr. Allan Spreen (M.D.), put out by Agora Publishing.
The rough details -- without revealing too much of the book's content
-- are as follows:
Dr. O'Leary had suffered from an incurable lesion on his back for
three years. When he went to have it biopsied, he was told that he had
a BCC (basal cell carcinoma) and that it would need to be surgically
removed.
He very reluctantly agreed to the surgery, knowing that surgeons
"usually underestimate" the resulting side effects of the surgery.
Three days before the surgery was set to occur, O'Leary met with AO
Labs' founder, Greg Caton, to discuss his case. Based on the input
from Caton and that of other successful Cansema users, O'Leary
cancelled his surgery and used Cansema instead.
Dr. O'Leary indicates in his book interview that the process was
"somewhat painful," but "a lot better than surgery."
Three applications were made over a period of three months, and "now
it's virtually all gone . . . I’m feeling pretty good and quite
healed! The thing on my back is…nothing like it was before I started
taking the Cansema . . . this treatment worked so well that I didn’t
have to have surgery -- so that’s basically my…very happy
story." (July 1, 2008)
Read more.
Peter B
============================================
What I love is that you buy into your fears.
Plato Been
and Embassy and American Airlines, AGAINST fight by Ecuador govt to
protect him
19 Dec 2009
Get some understanding and a grip on Evil, you 'softy illiterate
"do-gooder" dopes!' You are not in some United Nations bureau, you
know, but you actually have to UNDERSTAND and face REAL EVIL.
Then study the Human Rights Philosopher's Human Rights Issues (HRI's)
to remedy your "de facto autism and isolationism in your New Age
cage."
You are in fact THAT illiterate, that UN-EDUCATED about Life,
you can not even talk to me...
The Human Rights Issues are all about UNDERSTANDING what you have to
face and handle: You have to UNDERSTAND something (and people) before
you can handle it (and people).
Justifying Evil - or justifying Oprah Winfrey's Evil, for that
matter, as it was mentioned as a JUSTIFICATION - or, generalizing
Evil as "American Government," does not get you anywhere, except
just MUCH MORE Evil.
'
Not WHY is there Evil, but PRECISELY WHO DOES IT, is the first matter.
'
B.t.w., I have sent this off to Gawker.com as a 'tip,' via their web
site - though I have not gotten a confirmation, so maybe they are
geared only to Windows browsers or whatever. (I run Linux.)
#tips
to Gawker.com - 19 Dec 2009
James Bond style, but real story:
US Gov FDA Agents Kidnap US citizen in Ecuador, for natural health
business. Ecuador fights back, to prevent his abduction by the
American Embassy and American Airlines
'
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
Medical News Commentaries
17 December 2009 9 Comments
His wife reports:
On December 2, 2009, Greg [Greg Canton, Guayaquil, Ecuador -
meditopia.org] was arrested here in Ecuador at a premeditated
license check point by Ecuadorian police.
Completely false charges were brought against him. The charges were,
______
Source:
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
31 posts - 2 authors - Last post: yesterday
Discussion about
'Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador'
at the GodlikeProductions Conspiracy Forum.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message946535/pg1
_________
Source II:
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador ...
20 posts - 7 authors - Last post: 5 hours ago
'Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador'
Medical News Comentaries 17 December 2009 9 Comments.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/browse_thread/thread/699e4c144ce0f5b7/3bcec66eecf5b178?lnk=raot
__________
Source III:
Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
Home » Medical News Comentaries
http://imva.info/index.php/2009/12/alternative-medicine-pioneer kidnapped-by-us-government-in-ecuador/
Pramesh Rutaji
In the absence of government, one would have a natural right to own any
weapon one desired and to defend their life and property by any means
necessary from the use of fraud or force. Ownership of weapons or
property in general, especially self-ownership, is a natural right. The
only purpose of government is to protect natural rights, not to force
one group to serve the will of another in part or in full, not to
confiscate their property, not to confiscate their labor, not to
confiscate their life (limiting drugs, supplements, foods, medical
treatments, draft, etc.), not to limit their relationships, contractual
or not, and not to create a set of "entitlements" to which one group is
enslaved to pay for another. If you don't want to own a gun, don't buy
one. Rights don't come from government, rights come from individuals.
The right to posses any means of self defense is not a right granted by
government. If rights came from government, then governments could
grant me the right to round up my neighbors, place them in a gas
chamber, and turn it on.
The phrase "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" was a compromise
where the original phrase was "life, liberty, and property", a phrase
designed to be inclusive of natural rights. The word "property" was
changed since non-slave states didn't agree with slave states that
people could be property. A state that doesn't subvert the natural
right to defend oneself including ownership of weapons would be a state
in which the rise of slavery could not occur except under the natural of
one person to indenture themselves to another in exchange for any
agreeable benefits. Being employed for wages is a form of indentured
servitude.
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297ton...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
Pramesh Rutaji
The federal government was created as a tool of the states. This
federal child has almost become successful at murdering it's parents an
usurping power. The states need to reign in this federal beast and
chain it back in place as a tool and a tool only of the states.
I propose eliminating the amendment that gives the feds the power to tax
and replacing it with one in which the states meet once a year to set
the value of the federal budget with a vote that requires 2/3s of the
states yes vote. Only the states could tax and they would proved their
share based on population figures arrived at by the 10 year census. How
each state obtained their portion of the federal budget would be
completely up to the states. There would be no more federal mandates
and no taxing states and sending the money back to them with strings.
This would also eliminate the idea that the feds can tax the economic
output of foreign countries simply because an American is benefiting.
Each dollar, or euro, or yen, etc earned should only be taxable by the
country in which it is earned. No dollar in the US should ever be taxed
twice. The only purpose of taxes in the USA is to provide enough
government to protect natural rights. Redistribution of wealth
(enslavement) should in all cases be unconstitutional. At this point,
the Fed thinks it owns the citizens. It can force you to die, take away
or limit health options, tax the output of labor and capitol in full or
in part, assess an asset tax as high as it wants. Citizens no longer
have the right to life, liberty, or property. IN fact, if you decide to
take up citizenship in another country and give up your US citizenship,
the government has an asset tax of 50% of the current value of your
entire worldwide assets which you must pay to gain your freedom.
Kofi
> > gets really bizarre when they start talking about some second
> > amendment to the Constitution. When I ask what giving the Commonwealth
> > the power to assume debts of the states has to do with guns they look
> > blank.
> >
>
> We are a Republic, with a Constitution that makes the federal government
> secondary to the States, They have effectively usurped that power, 4
> states have declared Sovereignty. 14 are about to. Our gov't has no
> right to assume debts, we have States rights, and any right not
> specifically declared in the Constitution to be Federal is reserved by
> the States. Like there, we have many dumb self centered voters.
Last time I was there, there weren't that many "states" in Oz. You're
talking about territories, aren't you? I also don't recall any severing
ties with the Queen of England... so thinking about the Australian
"constitution" in the same sense as the American Constitution is a bit
confusing. Legally, the whole British empire (what's left of it) is a
theoretical mess.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 18, 8:55 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 18, 6:06 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Snip
>
> No, I didn't post that. You did. What you snip I restore:
Correct. You did not post:
Peter B
"Pramesh Rutaji" <p297ton...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:hgjod...@news7.newsguy.com...
Yes, we need to do something. The sooner the better.
Peter B
"Kofi" <ko...@anon.un> wrote in message
What I wrote pertained to the US. The post I replied to used Oz as one
example in reply to a post from an American.
Kofi
> weapon one desired and to defend their life and property by any means
> necessary from the use of fraud or force.
In the absence of government, we're all living in caves using clubs and
arrows.
Who decides if the "means" were necessary?
Who defines "fraud?"
People have to reach basic agreements about certain issues or they quite
literally can't occupy the same geography.
The issue of justice is also not a kind of non-exclusive economic good.
One person getting justice doesn't prevent me from getting justice; in
fact, just the opposite. One killer off the street leaves us all safer
- and, who, by the way is going to secure justice for a victim who's
dead? Uhhhhh, could it be... *the government*?
> Ownership of weapons or
> property in general, especially self-ownership, is a natural right. The
> only purpose of government is to protect natural rights, not to force
> one group to serve the will of another in part or in full, not to
> confiscate their property, not to confiscate their labor, not to
> confiscate their life (limiting drugs, supplements, foods, medical
> treatments, draft, etc.), not to limit their relationships, contractual
> or not, and not to create a set of "entitlements" to which one group is
> enslaved to pay for another.
Entitlements and enslavement are two different things. They are most
certainly not equivalent. Entitlements are a transfer of funds from one
group to another through the tax code. Everyone involved has a chance
to vote. Since that's the case, entitlements are perfectly legitimate
in a free society. Enslavement, on the other hand, deprives people of
the right to vote on anything. They're transformed from people to
property (which, ultimately, is incompatible with liberty or property -
but whoever said all these ideas have to be non-contradictory for people
to use them).
What the libertarians fail to understand is that all forms of property
flow from the state. Property rights are defined by the state and
regulated by the state and you go to government sanctioned courts to get
those rights enforced. It's simply too expensive for people to try to
do all this on their own and the modern economy is too complex for these
simplistic ideas. For instance, you could assert that if you buy up all
the property surrounding mine, you have the right to prevent me from
getting to mine - but you don't. I have a "right of way." The
government enforces that - otherwise we would all be victims of rich
people. In a similar fashion, people have a right to quote from
copyrighted works - even though they don't "own" the underlying text. I
don't owe George Lucas a royalty if I tell the Republicans their health
care excuses smell like Chewbacca three days into a bender.
Liberty in a republic isn't just your right to do something, it's your
obligation to do it well on behalf of others. You don't simply have the
right to speak your mind freely, you're also obliged to form your
opinions well using accurate information and then to share said opinions.
> If you don't want to own a gun, don't buy
> one. Rights don't come from government, rights come from individuals.
Rights come from God and go to the individual under natural law. Man
isn't a source of his own sovereignty. The Constitution is a vehicle
where individuals vest some of their capacity to act in a government.
They haven't "given up" these rights. They're relying on
representatives to help secure them.
The only checks on abuses of liberty - which you seem concerned with -
come from individuals acting in their capacity as citizens and from
government itself (e.g., separation of powers, ambition counteracting
ambition, etc.).
By trying to focus on "man" as a source of his own sovereignty, you're
losing sight of the fact that man is flawed, a sinner who can never
redeem himself. The purpose of government isn't to provide that source
of redemption. Utopia on Earth is not possible, whether through
Communism, Libertarianism or any other -ism (especially Pragmatism).
The things you hate about government happen not because of "government"
per se but because all governments are made up of flawed men. All
companies are made up of flawed men. All consumers are flawed men. By
destroying the capacity of government to act, all you would do transfer
all the sin to private market relationships. You wouldn't get rid of it.
> The right to posses any means of self defense is not a right granted by
> government.
This "right" doesn't exist. If Bill Gates wants to stock his basement
with atomic weapons because he's worried about France, he doesn't have a
natural law right to do it. He can't operate private armies. It's not
compatible with democracy.
> If rights came from government, then governments could
> grant me the right to round up my neighbors, place them in a gas
> chamber, and turn it on.
Rights may be "inalienable" but people often have to rely on government
to help better secure the benefits of these rights. You can't do
everything on your own or through private enterprise. It's simply not
economical. How am I going to audit the credit quality of a thousand
mortgages held in an instrument in a bank in another country? The
libertarian gloss on politics really can't deal with modern economic
concepts like network effects, information asymmetry, agent loss,
transaction costs and institutional evolution.
>
> The phrase "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" was a compromise
> where the original phrase was "life, liberty, and property", a phrase
> designed to be inclusive of natural rights. The word "property" was
> changed since non-slave states didn't agree with slave states that
> people could be property. A state that doesn't subvert the natural
> right to defend oneself including ownership of weapons would be a state
> in which the rise of slavery could not occur except under the natural of
> one person to indenture themselves to another in exchange for any
> agreeable benefits.
This is a non sequitur. The slave states had "democracy" for those
people deemed to be "people" (enough so that plenty of whites who hated
slavery fought on the side of the South). It's one of the reasons
slavery came to be redefined over the centuries in terms of race (plenty
of whites came to America from England as "indentured servants," a
leftover of old feudal relationships) - otherwise, what kind of
democracy is it for whites when even whites can be sold into slavery.
By the time there was a civil war over slavery, slavery had almost
entirely been redefined from a pure property issue to racial
relationships.
> Being employed for wages is a form of indentured
> servitude.
No, it's simply a rational response to transaction costs. It's cheaper
for a bank to hire a salaried secretary - even if she doesn't have work
to do every minute - than it is for them to contract every little piece
of work they have her do on the open market for the best possible price.
The best possible price is hiring a secretary on a salary. This isn't
my idea, by the way. I didn't come up with it. Coase established all
this mathematically back in the early part of the 20th century around
the same time Keynes was doing his work.
The type of market relationships you're trying to force on us with your
ideas would leave us all much poorer, which is ironic when you think
about how much you think you value property. You should actually crack
open an economics textbook sometime.
Or a law book.
Or a political science textbook.
That is, if you're not too busy telling everybody how wrong they are...
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:908aa74d-cab0-47d9...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Huh? The story is about a man I don't personally know, why would I
feel fear regarding his plight? I do find the circumstances
surrounding his ordeal to be sad. You are also sad, but it's a
different kind of sad, as in "pathetic."
Peter B
==============================================
You no doubt would find sympathy for a child molester.
As to buying into your fears it was in relationship to the sandbox
comment. You see a spook behind every post.
Run!
RUN!
RUN PETER, RUN!
Yeah, don't get caught with your pants down again!
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:659767e6-a6ab-4a04...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 18, 4:33 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Jim" <willcox...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> > Medical News Comentaries
> > 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> >Anti US American BS snipped<
>
> It was not anti-American, dimwit, it was anti-bureaucratic
> corruption. As usual, you take the side of the corrupt.
> ================================================
> BEEP!!! You have exceeded your stupidity quota.
Meaning you support bureaucratic corruption. Thanks for showing your
true colors.
> > Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
> > all it was about.
>
> No, dumbass, it was a complaint that sovereign law was ignored at the
> behest of a NON elected bureaucratic agency, FDA, whose corrupt ties
> to industry are a matter of record. That's what it is all about.
> ================================================
> BEEP!!! BEEP!!! Read the figgen thing all the way to the end, icluding
> the section from the agenda driven woman that was called his wife wrote
> about. She didn't care two cents about his current plight, nor even
> mentioned the truth about his arrest.
Because it's all over his website, dumbass.
> > The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.
>
> That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
> to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
> Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
> them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
> ======================================================
> Just who do you think is in power, dimwit. Just who controls the purse
> strings dimwit? HMMMM?
Not the President, moron. Try congress and fat cat lobbys at the
behest of non elected bureaucrats.
> > All at the
> > expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
>
> As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
> not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
> of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
> =====================================================
> Post proof of why he was arrested, not heresay. What a dimwitted fool
> you are.
Since I believe he is innocent, I need prove nothing. It is up to YOU
to prove he's guilty because you believe that he is. If you own a
dictionary, try looking up the word "democracy."
> > None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about
> > why
> > the poor slob was arrested.
>
> The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
> in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
> reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
> =======================================================
> No, ignoranus. He "legally" set up his business in that country, he had
> a right to sell there according to their laws.
First, when calling someone an ignoramus, you might want to spell the
word correctly. Second, you might want to avoid agreeing with the
person you are calling an ignoramus in order not to destroy your own
argument. Dumbass.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:c512e992-49b6-42ff...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Not even for you.
> As to buying into your fears it was in relationship to the sandbox
> comment. You see a spook behind every post.
The "sandbox" comment was a reference to you being an idiot child, not
an idiot spook. But if you like, I'll start referring to you as the
idiot spook. I kinda like it to.
> Run!
>
> RUN!
>
> RUN PETER, RUN!
>
> Yeah, don't get caught with your pants down again!
Okay Forrest!!
Peter B
On Dec 19, 1:08 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:659767e6-a6ab-4a04...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 18, 4:33 pm, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Jim" <willcox...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:a6c6ab7f-3db3-432a...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Alternative Medicine Pioneer Kidnapped by US Government in Ecuador
> > Medical News Comentaries
> > 17 December 2009 9 Comments
>
> >Anti US American BS snipped<
>
> It was not anti-American, dimwit, it was anti-bureaucratic
> corruption. As usual, you take the side of the corrupt.
> ================================================
> BEEP!!! You have exceeded your stupidity quota.
Meaning you support bureaucratic corruption. Thanks for showing your
true colors.
=================================================
That fits under the description of your stupidity, good one skippy.
> > Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that
> > was
> > all it was about.
>
> No, dumbass, it was a complaint that sovereign law was ignored at the
> behest of a NON elected bureaucratic agency, FDA, whose corrupt ties
> to industry are a matter of record. That's what it is all about.
> ================================================
> BEEP!!! BEEP!!! Read the figgen thing all the way to the end, icluding
> the section from the agenda driven woman that was called his wife
> wrote
> about. She didn't care two cents about his current plight, nor even
> mentioned the truth about his arrest.
Because it's all over his website, dumbass.
=================================================
We were discussing the post/plea for help, dimwit, no one is going there
to read his/their site after this post of anti-American garbage and
obvious bag of lies as proven by Marks post.
> > The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.
>
> That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
> to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
> Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
> them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
> ======================================================
> Just who do you think is in power, dimwit. Just who controls the purse
> strings dimwit? HMMMM?
Not the President, moron. Try congress and fat cat lobbys at the
behest of non elected bureaucrats.
=======================================================
Obama is sitting on how many trillion to do with as he pleases? He has
been using it for arm twisting.
> > All at the
> > expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
>
> As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
> not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
> of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
> =====================================================
> Post proof of why he was arrested, not heresay. What a dimwitted fool
> you are.
Since I believe he is innocent, I need prove nothing. It is up to YOU
to prove he's guilty because you believe that he is. If you own a
dictionary, try looking up the word "democracy."
=======================================================
See, this is how you like to prove things, you believe so all else is
lies, fact of the matter Peter, you stated that you will lie or say
anything you wish to make a point and it does not matter what else is
said. That when you believe something that is it. Want me to find that
recent post and rub it in a bit more? You are about as intellectually
dishonest as they come.
> > None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about
> > why
> > the poor slob was arrested.
>
> The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
> in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
> reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
> =======================================================
> No, ignoranus. He "legally" set up his business in that country, he
> had
> a right to sell there according to their laws.
First, when calling someone an ignoramus, you might want to spell the
word correctly. Second, you might want to avoid agreeing with the
person you are calling an ignoramus in order not to destroy your own
argument. Dumbass.
========================================================
I spelt it as I wanted it to read, it is fitting and customized just for
you. And Mr stupid, they were arrested for what went on in the US, not
Ecuador. They could not be arrested there for guns or a business.
I love how you can stretch the box for stupidity. Sometimes I feel I am
in the twilight zone for real as it is surreal just how stupid ignorant
you can be.
Peter B
Not even for you.
Okay Forrest!!
================================================
Guess you are up way past your bedtime, You are not even making Peter
the Butthead sense.
Get some sleep freak.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e5470073-de06-4100...@b32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Markey would be unable to prove you are stupid even he quoted you, so
heavily stacked are the facts against whatever he says.
> > > The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government.
>
> > That's right, invoke the name of a popular US President to give cover
> > to these industry-pimping NON-elected bureaucratic agencies.
> > Pharmnuts love their UN-elected friends at FDA and CDC because without
> > them, drug maker profits would become non existent.
> > ======================================================
> > Just who do you think is in power, dimwit. Just who controls the purse
> > strings dimwit? HMMMM?
>
> Not the President, moron. Try congress and fat cat lobbys at the
> behest of non elected bureaucrats.
> =======================================================
> Obama is sitting on how many trillion to do with as he pleases? He has
> been using it for arm twisting.
Then ask him for a few million to have your brain rewired, or rather
just wired.
> > > All at the
> > > expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
>
> > As usual, you show you don't know what you're talking about. He was
> > not scheduled to serve jail time but was on probation for his "crime"
> > of selling medicinal (not illegal) herbs. Read about it here...
> > =====================================================
> > Post proof of why he was arrested, not heresay. What a dimwitted fool
> > you are.
>
> Since I believe he is innocent, I need prove nothing. It is up to YOU
> to prove he's guilty because you believe that he is. If you own a
> dictionary, try looking up the word "democracy."
> =======================================================
> See, this is how you like to prove things, you believe so all else is
> lies, fact of the matter Peter, you stated that you will lie or say
> anything you wish to make a point and it does not matter what else is
> said. That when you believe something that is it. Want me to find that
> recent post and rub it in a bit more? You are about as intellectually
> dishonest as they come.
Don't ask for my permission, genius, just do it. I'm sure we can all
enjoy a good laugh.
> > > None of their "alt medicines" where touted, not even any truth about
> > > why
> > > the poor slob was arrested.
>
> > The "poor slob" was arrested for encroaching upon FDA's monopoly turf
> > in the USA and threatening the profits of the drug makers (the same
> > reason you are here now, to protect those interests.)
> > =======================================================
> > No, ignoranus. He "legally" set up his business in that country, he
> > had
> > a right to sell there according to their laws.
>
> First, when calling someone an ignoramus, you might want to spell the
> word correctly. Second, you might want to avoid agreeing with the
> person you are calling an ignoramus in order not to destroy your own
> argument. Dumbass.
> ========================================================
> I spelt it as I wanted it to read, it is fitting and customized just for
> you. And Mr stupid, they were arrested for what went on in the US, not
> Ecuador. They could not be arrested there for guns or a business.
He had already served time in the US but was then illegally deported
against a judge's order. Your comment show you agree.
> I love how you can stretch the box for stupidity. Sometimes I feel I am
> in the twilight zone for real as it is surreal just how stupid ignorant
> you can be.
You are indeed in the twilight zone of stupidity where idiot spooks
like to play with mirrors.
Peter B
======================================================
No loser, and now you are changing your tune. The two are not related.
> I love how you can stretch the box for stupidity. Sometimes I feel I
> am
> in the twilight zone for real as it is surreal just how stupid
> ignorant
> you can be.
You are indeed in the twilight zone of stupidity where idiot spooks
like to play with mirrors.
======================================================
Then I caution you not to break one, you'll have seven years or worse
luck that you're having right now.
BTW, do try to not scare yourself.
lol, this is so d.... funny, the *fool has exceeded his quota of
stupidity for today*, already, too stupid for himself, and fortunately
he lives in a dummies bubble where stupidity is not recognized.
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Shaking me head, Peter the Butthead is just
flat out stupid.
Careful with those mirrors, idiot spook., snicker.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:adf52741-492b-45fb...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
You seem to have lost your "time-zone-decoder-ring" or maybe you
misplaced it with your evidence for vaccine safety.
Mark Probert
You are assuming that the report is true. There is no reason to assume
so. This man's history is that of a person who flouts the law.
Why assume his cohorts are telling the truth? Is it because you know
that alties REQUIRE conspiracies to prove their claims, since they
lack science and facts?
Kofi
> >> government
> >> secondary to the States, They have effectively usurped that power, 4
> >> states have declared Sovereignty. 14 are about to. Our gov't has no
> >> right to assume debts, we have States rights, and any right not
> >> specifically declared in the Constitution to be Federal is reserved
> >> by
> >> the States. Like there, we have many dumb self centered voters.
> >
> > Last time I was there, there weren't that many "states" in Oz. You're
> > talking about territories, aren't you? I also don't recall any
> > severing
> > ties with the Queen of England... so thinking about the Australian
> > "constitution" in the same sense as the American Constitution is a bit
> > confusing. Legally, the whole British empire (what's left of it) is a
> > theoretical mess.
>
> What I wrote pertained to the US. The post I replied to used Oz as one
> example in reply to a post from an American.
Well, then you have no idea what you saying about American government.
As Earl Long once said, you can't fight the Feds now that they have the
A-bomb. The Civil War amendments pretty much settled the "state
sovereignty" issue and without this shift, you literally wouldn't have
the internet, the Pubmed database, interstate highways or a modern
military. You simply can't split your sovereignty. If there was
'usurping' that happened then get over it. It's over and done with.
What astonishes me about you guys is that there is one single, unchecked
right still reserved to the states - picking electors for the electoral
college. In 2000, five Republican justices decided to take that away in
_Bush v. Gore_ when they decided states don't actually have the right to
count their votes according to state law - even though the Constitution
says they don't even have to hold an election in the first place (Bush
would have lost all the recounts, by the way; it didn't really matter
about the chads or the rules. They had simply tossed out enough
write-in ballots - thousands - to determine the outcome). Now, if the
state legislature wants to vote all its electors to Bush, they could
have done that it - but that's a matter for the state. There's not
actually an election required and there's no role for the Supreme Court
in any of this. It just happens that two of the law firms Bush hired to
argue his case also paid salaries to two of Scalia's sons at the time.
Scalia and Rhenquist vote for Bush and then magically two of their kids
get jobs in his administration - something prohibited by the ethics
clause of the oath they swore to the bar. Think I'm being partisan?
If, in the last O.J. Simpson case, the judge directed an acquital and
then four of the judge's kids showed up mowing his grass for $100K a
year would you have trusted the verdict? No. The judge would be in
prison. It happens with Republicans on the Supreme Court, though, and
suddenly we're all so proud of "family values" synergy instead of
nepotism, perjury and bribery.
If you dislike the corruption at the Federal level, it's generally far
worse at the state level. For one thing, it's easier for industries to
bribe lawmakers and get away with it.
Peter B
"Kofi" <ko...@anon.un> wrote in message
We did and we can. It is our right. It the people want to roll over and
play dead then sobeit.
The federal government is supposed to represent the will of the States
and the people, therefore we would still remain The United States of
America.
Attempting to rewrite history does not change what happened. Florida
cheated as did a couple other states. Get over it.
> If, in the last O.J. Simpson case, the judge directed an acquital and
> then four of the judge's kids showed up mowing his grass for $100K a
> year would you have trusted the verdict? No. The judge would be in
> prison. It happens with Republicans on the Supreme Court, though, and
> suddenly we're all so proud of "family values" synergy instead of
> nepotism, perjury and bribery.
>
WTF?
> If you dislike the corruption at the Federal level, it's generally far
> worse at the state level. For one thing, it's easier for industries
> to
> bribe lawmakers and get away with it.
They don't have to here, the state is corrupted like many others, and by
the environmentalists, We are working on a change.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:4b1623fd-d66f-4983...@s20g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Back peddling again. You do that a lot.
> > I love how you can stretch the box for stupidity. Sometimes I feel I
> > am
> > in the twilight zone for real as it is surreal just how stupid
> > ignorant
> > you can be.
>
> You are indeed in the twilight zone of stupidity where idiot spooks
> like to play with mirrors.
> ======================================================
> Then I caution you not to break one, you'll have seven years or worse
> luck that you're having right now.
The idiot spook didn't get it. But then, what's new?
> BTW, do try to not scare yourself.
> lol, this is so d.... funny, the *fool has exceeded his quota of
> stupidity for today*, already, too stupid for himself, and fortunately
> he lives in a dummies bubble where stupidity is not recognized.
>
> BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Shaking me head, Peter the Butthead is just
> flat out stupid.
> Careful with those mirrors, idiot spook., snicker.
It wasn't news that you needed professional help, but this post makes
it urgent.
PeterB - Original
So says FDA, whose own history of fraud, deception, and cover up are
well known.
> Why assume his cohorts are telling the truth?
I am, rather, affording little credence to charges based on FDA
evidence, which I have not seen and you have been unable to produce.
> Is it because you know
> that alties REQUIRE conspiracies to prove their claims, since they
> lack science and facts?
No charge of conspiracy has been made by me. FDA's corrupt practices
occur within the legal framework of its ties to industry, but that
perverse condition does not absolve the agency's guilt for permitting
millions to be murdered over the years, and they will some day answer
for it.
PeterB - Original
>
> http://www.fda.gov/downloads/ICECI/EnforcementActions/EnforcementStor...
>
> On May 26, 2004, Caton was convicted of violating Title 18 U.S.C. 1341
> - Mail Fraud; and Title 21 U.S.C. 331(d), 355(a) and 333(a)(2) -
> Introduction into Interstate Commerce of Unapproved New Drugs. Caton
> also forfeited 2 buildings and his residence in Lake Charles,
> Louisiana.
>
> On August 24, 2004, Caton was sentenced to 33 months incarceration to
> be followed by 3 years supervised release.
>
> Now, Petey, show us your skills as coming up with new meaning of
> words, torturning logic, and whoing that you will defend anyone.
I read this earlier, and it's meaningless. An "enforcement story"
write up in FDA's archives is not evidence, but a charge by the very
agency whose own corrupt relationship to industry is well known. FDA
protects its interests by protecting its primary funding source, the
drug makers, whom it purports to regulate. I'm sure you will need a
dictionary not written by your friends in industry to understand what
the words "evidence" actually means.
> > > One does not get prosecuted without having
> > > apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
FDA has perverted medical science to such a degree that it cannot
objectively review the available science.
> > Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how
> > they were false?
>
> Wrong. I do not have to prove that they were false, Mr. Red
> Herring. Caton had the burden of proof that his claims were true.
As I said, an agency as corrupt as FDA, whose drug approval process is
based on science fabricated by the drug makers whom it purports to
regulate, cannot be the arbiter of what is true.
Mark Probert
Translation: I cannot refute it, so I will dismiss it.
An "enforcement story"
> write up in FDA's archives is not evidence, but a charge by the very
> agency whose own corrupt relationship to industry is well known. FDA
> protects its interests by protecting its primary funding source, the
> drug makers, whom it purports to regulate.
I have never liked the idea that the FDA charges a fee for service on
drug approval applications. I would prefer that they are all at
taxpayer expense.
I'm sure you will need a
> dictionary not written by your friends in industry to understand what
> the words "evidence" actually means.
Dumbass.
> > > > One does not get prosecuted without having
> > > > apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
>
> FDA has perverted medical science to such a degree that it cannot
> objectively review the available science.
It is not about the FDA. As best as I can determine, Caton never
submitted anyting to the FDA even though he was required to do so. He
ignored the law. Thus his predicament.
> > > Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how
> > > they were false?
>
> > Wrong. I do not have to prove that they were false, Mr. Red
> > Herring. Caton had the burden of proof that his claims were true.
>
> As I said, an agency as corrupt as FDA, whose drug approval process is
> based on science fabricated by the drug makers whom it purports to
> regulate, cannot be the arbiter of what is true.-
BTW, your dismissal of anything by the FDA is demonstrative of why I
say it is political, not medical/scientific.
Thanks for providing even more proof.
PeterB - Original
I dismiss it because it isn't evidence. If it were evidence, I could
review it on the merits of the science presented.
> An "enforcement story"
>
> > write up in FDA's archives is not evidence, but a charge by the very
> > agency whose own corrupt relationship to industry is well known. FDA
> > protects its interests by protecting its primary funding source, the
> > drug makers, whom it purports to regulate.
>
> I have never liked the idea that the FDA charges a fee for service on
> drug approval applications. I would prefer that they are all at
> taxpayer expense.
Sure, let's scam taxpayers for all of it. They won't feel a
thing.
> > I'm sure you will need a
> > dictionary not written by your friends in industry to understand what
> > the words "evidence" actually means.
>
> Dumbass.
>
> > > > > One does not get prosecuted without having
> > > > > apmple opportunity to prove one's claims with some science.
>
> > FDA has perverted medical science to such a degree that it cannot
> > objectively review the available science.
>
> It is not about the FDA. As best as I can determine, Caton never
> submitted anyting to the FDA even though he was required to do so. He
> ignored the law. Thus his predicament.
It's about the FDA because his prosecution was initiated by that
agency. The claim that he broke the law is based on your claim that
his remedy was marketed as a drug. You still haven't proven that he
did that even FDA's own criteria. Why?
> > > > Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how
> > > > they were false?
>
> > > Wrong. I do not have to prove that they were false, Mr. Red
> > > Herring. Caton had the burden of proof that his claims were true.
>
> > As I said, an agency as corrupt as FDA, whose drug approval process is
> > based on science fabricated by the drug makers whom it purports to
> > regulate, cannot be the arbiter of what is true.-
>
> BTW, your dismissal of anything by the FDA is demonstrative of why I
> say it is political, not medical/scientific.
Non sequitur. FDA's perversion of medical science is the reason I
cannot attribute scientific integrity to their drug approval process,
much less to prosecutions targeting competitive threats to their
funding source. Politics has nothing to do with it.
Peter B
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:4609802e-e45f-4fd7...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
=================================================
If he sold it as a drug then by law it had to be submitted for review by
the FDA.
Similar cases happen all the time, then they either conform to the law
or change their marketing strategy.
> > > > Care to provide any documentation on those claims, and how
> > > > they were false?
>
> > > Wrong. I do not have to prove that they were false, Mr. Red
> > > Herring. Caton had the burden of proof that his claims were true.
>
> > As I said, an agency as corrupt as FDA, whose drug approval process
> > is
> > based on science fabricated by the drug makers whom it purports to
> > regulate, cannot be the arbiter of what is true.-
>
> BTW, your dismissal of anything by the FDA is demonstrative of why I
> say it is political, not medical/scientific.
Non sequitur. FDA's perversion of medical science is the reason I
cannot attribute scientific integrity to their drug approval process,
much less to prosecutions targeting competitive threats to their
funding source. Politics has nothing to do with it.
==================================================
Amazing, he was correct, you disagreed but then proved his point, yet
again. lol
Mark Probert
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:4609802e-e45f-4fd7...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Now you know why I love Petey. He makes it sooooooooooooooooo easy.
>
>
>
> > Thanks for providing even more proof.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
PeterB - Original
Look it up in a dictionary, dipwit. "Political" bias reflects
ideology in the context of governance, not skepticism based on
bureaucratic corruption. My views on FDA reflect that agency's
grossly unethical behavior. I might add that neither of you have
produced a shred of evidence showing FDA's actions against Caton to be
based on medical science, so I have to assume you can't and that it
isn't.
Peter B
====================================================
Problem is you are obviously biased and not skepticism as shown by your
words and intentions.
PeterB - Original
> > ==================================================
> > Amazing, he was correct, you disagreed but then proved his point, yet
> > again. lol
>
> Look it up in a dictionary, dipwit. "Political" bias reflects
> ideology in the context of governance, not skepticism based on
> bureaucratic corruption. My views on FDA reflect that agency's
> grossly unethical behavior. I might add that neither of you have
> produced a shred of evidence showing FDA's actions against Caton to be
> based on medical science, so I have to assume you can't and that it
> isn't.
> ====================================================
> Problem is you are obviously biased and not skepticism as shown by your
> words and intentions.
No evidence then, just as I said. No Data + No Facts = No Proof of
Claim
Peter B
=====================================================
Well that is just what Mark, I, and others have been trying to tell you.
Your words mean nothing, your replies hold no water, they are nothing
*now* by your own definition directly above this.
I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, empty mind empty thoughts.
Stan de SD
> Do read Mark's Meditopia doc.
Why? Because he makes more sense than you do?
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:5b4e5702-936e-4e5d...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 23, 2:42 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > ==================================================
> > > Amazing, he was correct, you disagreed but then proved his point,
> > > yet
> > > again. lol
>
> > Look it up in a dictionary, dipwit. "Political" bias reflects
> > ideology in the context of governance, not skepticism based on
> > bureaucratic corruption. My views on FDA reflect that agency's
> > grossly unethical behavior. I might add that neither of you have
> > produced a shred of evidence showing FDA's actions against Caton to be
> > based on medical science, so I have to assume you can't and that it
> > isn't.
> > ====================================================
> > Problem is you are obviously biased and not skepticism as shown by
> > your
> > words and intentions.
>
> No evidence then, just as I said. No Data + No Facts = No Proof of
> Claim
> =====================================================
> Well that is just what Mark, I, and others have been trying to tell you.
You agree that the lack of evidence against Caton calls his
prosecution into question? Good. That is all I've been saying.
<spook's alter ego stuff snipped>
Stan de SD
If I'm reading the US Attorney's affadavit correctly
http://www.meditopia.org/docs/04-20075-01.document1.pdf, it mentions
that this clown Caton was selling something called "H3O" which was a
supposed cure for athlete's foot and herpes sores, as well as "Cansema
Tonic III" which was a cure for CANCER? Sure looks like PT Barnum was
correct - there's a sucker born every minute...
Peter B
======================================================
No, I agreed with you and everyone else that you are biased, totally
biased. You haven't read anything on the trial from the courts
perspective and you aren't about to since you are smarter than they.
PeterB - Original
> that this clown Caton was selling something called "H3O" which was a
> supposed cure for athlete's foot and herpes sores, as well as "Cansema
> Tonic III" which was a cure for CANCER? Sure looks like PT Barnum was
> correct - there's a sucker born every minute...
Do you have a source document to show Caton's product labeling used
the word "cure?" I don't see it anywhere on FDA's website, do you?
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:eae4864a-707a-404d...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
One cannot be biased against an agency as corrupt as FDA, that would
be like saying you are biased against a serial killer. In fact, the
FDA is exactly that.
> You haven't read anything on the trial from the courts
> perspective and you aren't about to since you are smarter than they.
Even a space rock is smarter than FDA. Not you though.
Peter B
==================================================
and you claim to use logic, snicker.
> You haven't read anything on the trial from the courts
> perspective and you aren't about to since you are smarter than they.
Even a space rock is smarter than FDA. Not you though.
==========================================
Yet more astounding logic.
Mark Probert
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e6ffc32a-4e0d-40bf...@h9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Wrong.Yet more astounding ILLOGIC. Petey's specialty.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e6ffc32a-4e0d-40bf...@h9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
The facts are indeed logical. Your trust in FDA is touching, but
dumb. You're a dummy.
Mark Probert
I assume that the FDA and CDC are making an effort to get it right.
You knee-jerk reject them ab initio, without giving a thought. Your
"mind" (for want of a better term) is closed.
PeterB - Original
I'm sure your assumption is a matter of record at FDA and CDC.
> You knee-jerk reject them ab initio, without giving a thought.
Wrong. The history of their actions and lack of accountability is why
prosecutions based on their edicts should not be taken at face
value. You are one who accepts the charges without question or
thought.
> Your "mind" (for want of a better term) is closed.
It's closed to folly, which is why your "arguments" do not sway me.
Stan de SD
So this kook Greg Caton marketed "H3O" and a cure for cancer? What
type of idiot would fall for a huckster and fraud like this anyway?
Mark Probert
Equally important, what sort of person would support him? Ask Petey.
PeterB - Original
The sort of person who believes in real science and ethical
prosecutions, neither of which you believe in.
VFW
"Peter B" <orig...@frag.com> wrote:
> BS snipped<
>
> Read 98% of this rant against the government of the USA. Yes, that was
> all it was about. The evil CDC & FDA of the Obama government. All at the
> expense of one sorry loser who ran from the US to avoid jail time.
and my $.02
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talking.....
Prevention ... worth a pound of cure. An Apple a day....etc/
So many "health" care plans are really expensive sickness programs.
They
want to feed your fears and treat your symptoms not the causes. They
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Want to know more?
Like Eyesight improvement
--
Hint; Enjoy the moment !