Pediatrician Accused of Sexually Abusing Patients
Jan Drew
Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
Videotaping Acts
Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
of Victims'
Peter B
"Jan Drew" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dc6e4ef4-fb6f-4951...@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
Mark Probert
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:dc6e4ef4-fb6f-4951...@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > Videotaping Acts
> > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > of Victims'
>
> > More at
>
> Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
a pure form of ad hominem.
This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
Jan Drew
Mark Probert
Should we discuss Patrick Bolen's client, Stuie Suster? You support
Bolen when you post his articles.
dr_jeff
GIve them a break. The best they can do is personal attacks. They can't
get the science right (they say chemotherapy doesn't help most people
with cancer, yet, most people with cancer are cured - gee that doesn't
add up in people with normal minds). All they can do is tell us we're in
the 'gang' and are pharmashills (if I am a shill, but whoever pharma is
owes me a lot of money).
Jeff
Jan Drew
No, sad that you seem to think is is OK for a pediatican to sexually
abuse his patients.
And, you forgot you posted:
Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
Proving you are a hyopcrite.
Jan Drew
The Not dr posted nothing about the subject.
Guess he thinks it is OK.
There was no personal attack. It is in the news that a Pediatrician
Accused of Sexually Abusing Patients.
So you just posted a personal attack, hypocrite.
Mark Probert
> > On Dec 25, 1:16 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> >> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:dc6e4ef4-fb6f-4951...@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> >>> Videotaping Acts
> >>> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> >>> of Victims'
> >>> More at
> >>>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
> >> Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
>
> > There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> > they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> > a pure form of ad hominem.
>
> > This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
> > high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
>
> GIve them a break.
Name the bone.
> The best they can do is personal attacks.
Agreed. That is what PeteyB is all about. No point in talking science
with him.
They can't
> get the science right (they say chemotherapy doesn't help most people
> with cancer, yet, most people with cancer are cured - gee that doesn't
> add up in people with normal minds). All they can do is tell us we're in
> the 'gang' and are pharmashills (if I am a shill, but whoever pharma is
> owes me a lot of money).
Agreed.
If I get a check from BigPhamra, I'll donate 100% to the Make-A-Wish
Foundation.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 25, 9:17 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 25, 9:03 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > Videotaping Acts
> > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > of Victims'
>
> > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > Should we discuss Patrick Bolen's client, Stuie Suster? You support
> > Bolen when you post his articles.
>
> No,
Why not? Because you cannot handle it? Yes, that is it.
sad that you seem to think is is OK for a pediatican to sexually
> abuse his patients.
Actually, no, I do not. Nothing I posted could lead an intelligent
person to think so.
Several years ago there was one in my community, and a friend of mine
was thinking of merging practices in view of retirement for his
declining health problems.
I had heard some rumors, and relayed them to my friend. He had some
"try-out days" and with the knowledge I imparted, he kept a wary eye.
He concluded that there was a problem, and filed a complaint with the
state. This resulted in an immediate license suspension that lead to
people coming forward to provide proof, and the swine ball lost his
license.
>
> And, you forgot you posted:
> Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
> Proving you are a hyopcrite.
No, you are. You failed to condemn Stuie the Groper.
Mark Probert
He did not make a personal attack.
dr_jeff
I wasn't even following the subject until I read the post to which I
responded.
> There was no personal attack. It is in the news that a Pediatrician
> Accused of Sexually Abusing Patients.
>
> So you just posted a personal attack, hypocrite.
I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
I didn't post a personal attack. Rather, I was commenting on their way
of arguing.
Jeff
Bob Officer
Clergymen and religious leaders do this at nearly 100 times the rate
of doctors, but yet I see you cling to your religious nonsense.
Fucking hypocrite, Jan Drew.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Mark Probert
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:58:12 -0800 (PST), in misc.health.alternative,
>
>
> >Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> >Videotaping Acts
> >Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> >of Victims'
>
>
> Clergymen and religious leaders do this at nearly 100 times the rate
> of doctors, but yet I see you cling to your religious nonsense.
Clergymen of all denominations and faiths are guilty of this just as
doctors, etc.
> Fucking hypocrite, Jan Drew.
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
>
> > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > Videotaping Acts
> > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > of Victims'
>
> > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
Thanks for showing again you are dishonest.
Learn to post correctly.
More at http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
Jan Drew
Not dr. Thanks for showing your personal attack.
***people with normal minds***
Is a personal attack, hypocrite, from a liar who still posts as a dr,
Jan Drew
>
> > >>> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > >>> Videotaping Acts
> > >>> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > >>> of Victims'
> > >>> More at
> > >>>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
> > >> Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
>
> > > There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> > > they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> > > a pure form of ad hominem.
>
> > > This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
> > > high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
>
> > GIve them a break.
>
> Name the bone.
>
> > The best they can do is personal attacks.
>
> Agreed. That is what PeteyB is all about. No point in talking science
> with him.
This thread is not about PeterB, nor is he PeteyB
>
> They can't
Neither is it about they it is about Pediatrician Accused of Sexually
Abusing Patients
Make a note of it, Mark "Diversion" Probert
Jan Drew
Proves he is indeed Mark "Diversion Probert.
Posting diversions and not the subject.
Jan Drew
*** people with normal minds***
Is a personal attack.
Proving me 100% correct that the gang members lie for each other.
You keep making even a bigger fool of yourself.
Jan Drew
Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
Mark posted.
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
Real one on HealthFraud list: Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, M.D.
jeff...@juno.com
[2007] "Robert Watson" kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
Jeff Utz jtest-u...@juno.com
Jeff Utz, M.D. jeff...@juno.com
Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeff...@softhome.net Hence "Putz"
http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ u...@pilot.msu.edu
Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyot...@hotmail.com
Jeff Utz kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com (Jan 2003)
Jeff jef...@pacbell.net
Jeff j...@hotmail.com (2007)
dr_jeff
<...>
>> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
>
> Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> Mark posted.
Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
> Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
<garbage deleted>
Jeff
Mark Probert
> On Dec 25, 9:17 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 25, 9:03 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > Videotaping Acts
> > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > of Victims'
>
> > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> Thanks for showing again you are dishonest.
>
> Learn to post correctly.
What are you yapping about? You snipped whatever I said, and call me
dishonest? January 2 is fast approaching.
> More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
Mark Probert
> On Dec 26, 7:50 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> > > >>> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > >>> Videotaping Acts
> > > >>> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > >>> of Victims'
> > > >>> More at
> > > >>>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
> > > >> Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
>
> > > > There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> > > > they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> > > > a pure form of ad hominem.
>
> > > > This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
> > > > high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
>
> > > GIve them a break.
>
> > Name the bone.
>
> > > The best they can do is personal attacks.
>
> > Agreed. That is what PeteyB is all about. No point in talking science
> > with him.
>
> This thread is not about PeterB, nor is he PeteyB
I will make it about whomever I please. You do it whenever you post
about me. If you do not like it, do not do it.
Simple.
January 2nd is fast approaching. Storm clouds on the horizon.
> - Show quoted text -
Mark Probert
No, itis a description of people who demonstrate normal thinking.
Unlike some others.
> Proving me 100% correct that the gang members lie for each other.
>
> You keep making even a bigger fool of yourself.-
Wrong.
Mark Probert
He can post about anything he wants. If you do not like it, do not
read it.
> Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
So what? He still has his MD degree and he is legally, ethically and
morally aloowed to call himself Doctor.
You, OTOH, defend fArtie/Frager/Kolnicj/ who was never a doctor but
impersonated one. That is a crime in most states.
Peter B
news:685bb61f-0313-456a...@r14g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
========================================================
" Felix Martin <fe...@aracnet.com> (employee of aracnet)wrote:
It is a felony in the State of Oregon to represent yourself as a Doctor,
an Engineer or a Lawyer. It is in our system agreement that aracnet will
be only used for lawful purposes. We do not want to be liable or part of
any deception. As far as I know there are several people in this State
gathering information for a possible indictment against this person. I
cannot comment further. This user lied in his application and that by
itself is grounds enough for termination. He had his opportunity to
present verifiable information. FYI he has
been kicked off from other systems."
More than likely it is one of the reasons he moved to Washington soon
after.
Jan Drew
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
>
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
>
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
>
> > Neither are you a dr. �You already posted you no longer practice.
>
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
>
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
Real one on HealthFraud list: Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, M.D.
jeff...@juno.com
[2007] "Robert Watson" kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
Jeff Utz jtest-u...@juno.com
Jeff Utz, M.D. jeff...@juno.com
Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeff...@softhome.net Hence "Putz"
http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ u...@pilot.msu.edu
Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyot...@hotmail.com
Jeff Utz kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com (Jan 2003)
Jeff jef...@pacbell.net
Jeff j...@hotmail.com (2007)
>
> Jeff
Jan Drew
> On Dec 28, 4:50�pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 25, 9:17 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 25, 9:03 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > > Videotaping Acts
> > > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > > of Victims'
>
> > > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > Thanks for showing again you are dishonest.
>
> > Learn to post correctly.
>
> What are you yapping about?
I am not yapping. I post the truth.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s
Thanks again for proving you are not honest. Learn to post correctly.
You do it on purpose. Your links leads to nowhere.
Peter B
"Jan Drew" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:92a1c321-9e7b-4dd6...@h9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 28, 5:29�pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
>
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
>
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
>
> > Neither are you a dr. �You already posted you no longer practice.
>
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
>
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
======================================================
Not the brightest bulb on your block. Did you by any chance educate
PeterB Original?
Jan Drew
> On Dec 28, 4:58�pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 26, 7:50 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > �>
>
> > > > >>> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > > >>> Videotaping Acts
> > > > >>> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > > >>> of Victims'
> > > > >>> More at
> > > > >>>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
> > > > >> Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
>
> > > > > There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> > > > > they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> > > > > a pure form of ad hominem.
>
> > > > > This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
> > > > > high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
>
> > > > GIve them a break.
>
> > > Name the bone.
>
> > > > The best they can do is personal attacks.
>
> > > Agreed. That is what PeteyB is all about. No point in talking science
> > > with him.
>
> > This thread is not about PeterB, nor is he PeteyB
>
> I will make it about whomever I please.
You forgot again you posted Call me Mark "Diversion" Probert.
That makes you a hypocrite.
Off topic deleted.
Jan Drew
Time to shut up Mark S Probert.
You diversions are off topic.
You posted not a word about this terrible sexual molesting, and abuse.
Jan Drew
Posted nothing about the subject.
Which must mean he thinks these acts are OK.
Peter B
On Dec 28, 5:47�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
Time to shut up Mark S Probert.
You diversions are off topic.
You posted not a word about this terrible sexual molesting, and abuse.
=========================================================
You cried the blues when the letter about your abusing children was
posted.
Jan Drew
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
> <...>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
> > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
Peter B
On Dec 29, 1:16�am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
> <...>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
> > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
======================================================
Peter B
On Dec 28, 5:49�pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
Posted nothing about the subject.
Which must mean he thinks these acts are OK.
So what? He still has his MD degree and he is legally, ethically and
morally allowed to call himself Doctor.
You, OTOH, defend fArtie/Frager/Kolnicj/ who was never a doctor but
impersonated one. That is a crime in most states.
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message
This was from an email from the Administrator of Aracnet, which was
fArtie/Frager/Kolnick/'s ISP for a while.
> More than likely it is one of the reasons he moved to Washington soon
> after.-
I do believe that Washington also makes it a felony.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Jan Drew wrote:
> > > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> > >> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> > <...>
>
> > >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
>
> > > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > > Mark posted.
>
> > Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
>
> Only if you are a gang member.
Hi Jan. Considering how you are so insistent that the topic of a
thread must be strictly adhered to, could you explain just how my
family is relevant to any thread ever created in any of these
newsgroups?
Cue Jan to not answer this question.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 28, 5:40 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 4:50 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 25, 9:17 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 25, 9:03 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > > > Videotaping Acts
> > > > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > > > of Victims'
>
> > > > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > > Thanks for showing again you are dishonest.
>
> > > Learn to post correctly.
>
> > What are you yapping about?
>
> I am not yapping. I post the truth.
Yes, you are yapping, bleating, braying and barking. (Love that
aliteration).
> http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> >
>
> > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s
>
> Thanks again for proving you are not honest. Learn to post correctly.
> You do it on purpose. Your links leads to nowhere.-
If you would bother to go up thread, you would see that I did not post
those URLs.
Now, go tell the person who did post them that they are not honest.
January 2, 2010 is fast approaching. There are storm clouds on your
horizon.
Mark Probert
I did not forget anything. I have you programmed to constantly remind
me.
> Off topic deleted.
Jan deletes what she does not like.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 28, 5:47 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com>
>
> Time to shut up Mark S Probert.
There ya go again. Let me be perfectly clear, when you are 6 feet
under, I will not mention you.
> You diversions are off topic.
> You posted not a word about this terrible sexual molesting, and abuse.
I surely did. You just did not understand what I wrote.
> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> Videotaping Acts
> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> of Victims'
>
> More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
Sorry, but that link does not go to the story you think it does. How
deceptive of you.
Mark Probert
Do find the post where I address your hallucination which you just
repeated.
Peter B
===================================================
Yes, bur he stopped calling himself a Dr. Frager before the move. I
won't go so far as to say he hasn't tried another similar nym.
Mark Probert
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
That was a mistake on my part, and I would appreciate it if you did
not mention it.
Jan Drew
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
On Dec 29, 1:16 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
> <...>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
> > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
Mark Probert
> On Dec 29, 1:29 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 29, 1:16 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> > Jan Drew wrote:
> > > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> > >> Jan Drew wrote:
> > <...>
> > >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
> > > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > > Mark posted.
> > Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
>
Look up the term "thread (or topic) drift". It happens, because
people, unlike you, have open minds.
> > > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
> > So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> > proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
>
> Proof please
It is a fact a priori. Look that up.
> > <garbage deleted>
>
> LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
> you have used??
What you post IS garbage.
Mark Probert
I apologize for insulting garbage.
>
>
>
> > Restored:
>
> > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
>
> > Real one on HealthFraud list: Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, M.D.
> > jeff...@juno.com
> > [2007] "Robert Watson" kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
> > Jeff Utz jtest-u...@juno.com
> > Jeff Utz, M.D. jeff...@juno.com
> > Jeffrey P. Utz, M.D. jeff...@softhome.net Hence "Putz"http://www.msu.edu/~utz/ u...@pilot.msu.edu
> > Jeffrey Peter, M.D. kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com
> > Wyle E. Coyote wyle_e_coyot...@hotmail.com
> > Jeff Utz kidsdoc2...@hotmail.com (Jan 2003)
> > Jeff jef...@pacbell.net
> > Jeff j...@hotmail.com (2007)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Peter B
On Dec 29, 1:16 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> >> Jan Drew wrote:
> <...>
> >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
> > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > Mark posted.
> Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
Only if you are a gang member.
> > Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
> So. I am entitled to use the title until I die. And, then, it will be
> proper to refer to me as the late Dr. Utz.
Proof please
> <garbage deleted>
LOL!! Whasamtter Jeffrey Peter Joseph Utz, ashamed of you many names
you have used??
Restored:
Neither are you a dr. You already posted you no longer practice.
Jan Drew
You are the one who has posted about your family.
I just reposted your posts.
Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy
From: "Mark Probert" <mark_probertREMOVEGARB...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:21:41 -0400
Local: Mon, Aug 12 2002 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Part Time Job, Long Island.........
*A*nswering the
*N*eeds of
*C*itizens with
*H*andicaps through
*O*ganized
*R*ecreation.
Their camp has a webiste: www.campanchor.org. My kids pic is there.
Jan Drew
> On Dec 29, 1:15�am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 5:40 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 28, 4:50 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 25, 9:17 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 25, 9:03 pm, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > > > > Videotaping Acts
> > > > > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > > > > of Victims'
>
> > > > > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > > > Thanks for showing again you are dishonest.
>
> > > > Learn to post correctly.
>
> > > What are you yapping about?
>
> > I am not yapping. �I post the truth.
>
> Yes, you are yapping, bleating, braying and barking. (Love that
> aliteration).
>
> >http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > � >
>
> > > > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s
>
> > Thanks again for proving you are not honest. Learn to post correctly.
> > You do it on purpose. �Your links leads to nowhere.-
>
> If you would bother to go up thread, you would see that I did not post
> those URLs.
Liar liar.
> More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s
>
> Now, go tell the person who did post them that they are not honest.
I just did. It was you.
>
> January 2, 2010 is fast approaching.
So?
There are storm clouds on your
> horizon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Noone except God and Jesus Christ his son knows that.
Now, you ready to shut up?
Mark Probert
> On Dec 29, 9:37 am, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 1:09 am, Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 28, 5:29 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > Jan Drew wrote:
> > > > > On Dec 26, 9:20 pm, dr_jeff <u...@msu.edu> wrote:
> > > > >> Jan Drew wrote:
>
> > > > <...>
>
> > > > >> I was commenting on Mark's comments about ad hominem.
>
> > > > > Well, you should have been responding to the subject, not anything
> > > > > Mark posted.
>
> > > > Wrong. The discussion in a thread is not limited to the subject.
>
> > > Only if you are a gang member.
>
> > Hi Jan. Considering how you are so insistent that the topic of a
> > thread must be strictly adhered to, could you explain just how my
> > family is relevant to any thread ever created in any of these
> > newsgroups?
>
> > Cue Jan to not answer this question.
>
> You are the one who has posted about your family.
> I just reposted your posts.
So, I posted about my family. So what? What is YOUR purpose of posting
about them? Why do you do it? You must have a reason.
> Newsgroups: alt.support.cerebral-palsy
> From: "Mark Probert" <mark_probertREMOVEGARB...@hotmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:21:41 -0400
> Local: Mon, Aug 12 2002 2:21 pm
> Subject: Re: Part Time Job, Long Island.........
>
> *A*nswering the
> *N*eeds of
> *C*itizens with
> *H*andicaps through
> *O*ganized
> *R*ecreation.
>
> Their camp has a webiste:www.campanchor.org. My kids pic is there.-
Well, the pic was there in 2002. Jan will call me a liar now.
Now, Jan, do give me a straight answer to the questions I posed:
What is YOUR purpose of posting about them? Why do you do it? You must
have a reason.
But, remember, January 2, 2010 is fast approaching. There are ominous,
dark storm clouds on your horizon.
Consider that to be a forecast.
Mark Probert
NOPE, you dope.
> > More athttp://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s
>
> > Now, go tell the person who did post them that they are not honest.
>
> I just did. It was you.
Nope, you dope. It was NOT me. It was the person who started this
thread. Any post of mine that contains that URL is a reply to a
message which contained that URL.
I'll go and check to see who started this thread.
<Play Jeopardy! Theme Song>
I am back.
The person who first posted that URL is ....
drum roll....
Jan Drew!
Imagine that. It was Y O U.
Do you get migraines from being this stupid?
> > January 2, 2010 is fast approaching.
>
> So?
Just wanted to remind you.
> There are storm clouds on your
>
> > horizon.-
>
> Noone except God and Jesus Christ his son knows that.
Actually, I was making a forecast. Like the weather. However, I know
what is in those storm clouds.
> Now, you ready to shut up?
Over your dead body.
Bob Officer
Jan Drew <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Dec 27, 9:05?pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>
>snip profanity and reported.
>
Fully restored Jan. It is not profanity.
>
>Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
>Videotaping Acts
>Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
>of Victims'
>
Clergymen and religious leaders do this at nearly 100 times the rate
of doctors, but yet I see you cling to your religious nonsense.
Fucking hypocrite, Jan Drew.
Additionally you are a Fucking Control Freak. and Wantabe censor.
You continue to show your total lack of critical thinking by ignoring
the 1000's of Clergymen that molest children.
If there was really a god would he strike down such a sinner.
That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
PeterB - Original
>
> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
simply because you haven't seen it? Your atheism is a religion. Every
day, your life is lived by making a thousand assumptions. When you
stop making those leaps of faith, you'll be qualified to say what
doesn't exist. You also don't know what lies beyond your physical
death, because it hasn't happened yet. In light of everything you
don't know, your whole life is an exercise in faith. The question is
whether you put that faith in the material world you can see, or in
the idea world where god sees you.
Jan Drew
Keep on lying. You L I A R!!
Jan Drew
No, I reposted what you posted in 2002.
http://www.campanchor.org/images/jrcamp7.jpg
http://www.campanchor.org/images/jrcamp13.jpg
>
> Now, Jan, do give me a straight answer to the questions I posed:
>
> What is YOUR purpose of posting about them? Why do you do it? You must
> have a reason.
>
> But, remember, January 2, 2010 is fast approaching.
So what?
So is January 12345678910111213141516171819202122232425262728293031
There are ominous,
> dark storm clouds on your horizon.
>
> Consider that to be a forecast
Noone knows except God and Jesus Christ his son.
Jan Drew
Profanity deleted, and original subject restored.
Mark Probert
> So, you are not ready to shut up. No surprise there.
Over your dead body.
> Keep on lying. You L I A R!!
January 2, 2010 is fast approaching. There are dark clouds on your
horizon.
You will be warned.
Mark Probert
Noone?
I know what I will be doing. It is well planned.
There ARE dark clouds on your horizon.
You will be warned.
john
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:a086c8a7-29ea-4656...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>
> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
http://www.whale.to/b/atheism.html
"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or
becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and
experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the
mind there are no limits."--John Lilly
Bob Officer
The word fuck and all its derivatives is not profanity.
Fucking is a natural act.
However religion is created by man. That is profanity.
Spouting the antivaxers lies kills people.
That is obscene
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:a086c8a7-29ea-4656...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>
>
>
> > That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>
> http://www.whale.to/b/atheism.html
>
> "In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or
> becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and
> experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the
> mind there are no limits."--John Lilly
There is a strong element of truth in existential viewpoints because
they often describe our ability to conceptualize. But Jesus took it
much further by bringing the material world and the spiritual world
together. Through Him, we have access to the Creator and his Mind
directly. "Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock
and it shall be opened unto you," are the most powerful words, I
believe, ever uttered.
Peter B
"john" <nos...@bt.com> wrote in message
news:286dndDS7oEUfqHW...@bt.com...
Such as the belief that there is no God?
Jan Drew
Profanity deleted.
Bob Officer
Jan way are you dodging the fact your religious leaders have done
from more harm.
You are one fucked up control freak in deep denial.
ken
> Troll Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7>
>
> Profanity deleted.
Shit
crap
piss
doodie
poopie
bullshit
Jan Drew
ken
Jan Drew
Failed to change the subject.
Jan Drew
ken
> Troll with a filthy mouth failed again to change the subject. ken
> <flakey...@earthlink.net>
Shit, Doodie, Crap, Poopie,
Bob Officer
Jan still refuses to detail exactly what she calls spam.
However I have shown Jan is in fact a spammer and has often exceed
the limit of reposting, and is a common Net Abuser.
Jan is nothing more than a hypocrite and Control freak.
Jan, What exactly did Chris tell you?
I am sure some people wish to know about the results of your
complaint?
Bob Officer
PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 30, 5:57�pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>
>> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>
>Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
>simply because you haven't seen it?
Current commonly held christian belief requires that they be no life
elsewhere in the universe. just as the bible and the christian
religion require the earth to be the center of the universe and the
stars in the sky must be fixed and unchanging.
The religious expects require and claim the Bible to be without error
and the word of prefect God. If one error is found they the Bible can
not be the word of God.
Since it is a fact the earth is not the center of the universe, then
the Bible is false. If the Bible is false the odds are high that all
claims of a god are equally false.
>Your atheism is a religion.
No it isn't. An Atheist is perfectly sane and happy with *no* faith
in a higher being. Mankind needs religions as much as a fish needs a
bicycle.
>Every
>day, your life is lived by making a thousand assumptions.
An assumption? Most assumptions are based on observation, not faith.
>When you
>stop making those leaps of faith, you'll be qualified to say what
Assumption != faith. Faith is belief without evidence. Since
observations can be evidence and Assumptions can be treated as true
until an observation presents evidence with show the assumption not
to be true.
>doesn't exist. You also don't know what lies beyond your physical
>death, because it hasn't happened yet. In light of everything you
>don't know, your whole life is an exercise in faith. The question is
>whether you put that faith in the material world you can see, or in
>the idea world where god sees you.
You are blinded by false assumptions of a need for your god to be
true.
The Bible if you look at the ages of people allows for the world to
be between 5000 and 7000 years old at the most. By examining the
evidence presented by Dinosaur Fossils, it shows the Bible must be
false.
However you look at it, religions are superstitions, upon careful
examination all religions can be show to be false.
Peter B
"Bob Officer" <bobof...@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:hca0k5l9alphpiu38...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:02:02 -0800 (PST), in misc.health.alternative,
> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>
>>> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>>
>>Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
>>simply because you haven't seen it?
>
> Current commonly held christian belief requires that they be no life
> elsewhere in the universe. just as the bible and the christian
> religion require the earth to be the center of the universe and the
> stars in the sky must be fixed and unchanging.
>
Recently confirmed.
Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
"human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
> The religious expects require and claim the Bible to be without error
> and the word of prefect God. If one error is found they the Bible can
> not be the word of God.
>
> Since it is a fact the earth is not the center of the universe, then
> the Bible is false. If the Bible is false the odds are high that all
> claims of a god are equally false.
>
>
>
>>Your atheism is a religion.
>
> No it isn't. An Atheist is perfectly sane and happy with *no* faith
> in a higher being. Mankind needs religions as much as a fish needs a
> bicycle.
>
Atheists believe there is no god. That is their faith.
Happy Oyster
YUP!
.
--
Die volle H�rte: http://www.kindersprechstunde.at
***************************************************************
Die Medienmafia � Die Regividerm-Verschw�rung
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~kanzlerzwo/showtopic.php?threadid=5710
Bob Officer
B" <orig...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>"Bob Officer" <bobof...@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
>news:hca0k5l9alphpiu38...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:02:02 -0800 (PST), in misc.health.alternative,
>> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>>>
>>>Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
>>>simply because you haven't seen it?
>>
>> Current commonly held christian belief requires that they be no life
>> elsewhere in the universe. just as the bible and the christian
>> religion require the earth to be the center of the universe and the
>> stars in the sky must be fixed and unchanging.
>>
>Incorrect, only a few stars were fixed in the skies such as pleides.
>Recently confirmed.
They are not fixed either. They had a relative measured Velocity from
the Earth and even differing velocities among themselves.
>Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
>of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
>"human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
Thus showing the bible and it writers were not writing the word of
any God.
>> The religious expects require and claim the Bible to be without error
>> and the word of prefect God. If one error is found they the Bible can
>> not be the word of God.
>>
>> Since it is a fact the earth is not the center of the universe, then
>> the Bible is false. If the Bible is false the odds are high that all
>> claims of a god are equally false.
>
>>>Your atheism is a religion.
>>
>> No it isn't. An Atheist is perfectly sane and happy with *no* faith
>> in a higher being. Mankind needs religions as much as a fish needs a
>> bicycle.
>>
>
>Atheists believe there is no god. That is their faith.
No we don't believe. Faith is a belief without evidence or in the
face of contradictory evidence.
Since there is no evidence which shows there is any god/gods, and no
contradictory evidence, You claim of Atheism being a faith is false.
Exactly.
Religions require belief without supporting evidence or in the face
of contradictory belief. Religions generally forbid questioning
belief and often replace the deity with a spokesperson or
intercessional. (pope, priest or idol) and is often steeped in
rituals and rites which often smack of symbolic magic.
Peter B
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:52:13 -0800, in misc.health.alternative, "Peter
> B" <orig...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bob Officer" <bobof...@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
>>news:hca0k5l9alphpiu38...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:02:02 -0800 (PST), in
>>> misc.health.alternative,
>>> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>>Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
>>>>simply because you haven't seen it?
>>>
>>> Current commonly held christian belief requires that they be no life
>>> elsewhere in the universe. just as the bible and the christian
>>> religion require the earth to be the center of the universe and the
>>> stars in the sky must be fixed and unchanging.
>>>
>>Incorrect, only a few stars were fixed in the skies such as pleides.
>>Recently confirmed.
>
> They are not fixed either. They had a relative measured Velocity from
> the Earth and even differing velocities among themselves.
>
They are considered fixed by astronomers. There are others also declared
fixed in the heavens, or is it firmament, according to the Bible. I'm
not sure if all are considered fixed as yet by astronomers.
>>Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the
>>center
>>of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is
>>no
>>"human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
>
> Thus showing the bible and it writers were not writing the word of
> any God.
How do you come to that conclusion? The earth was never considered
center, nor any mention of humans on other planets. There is recorded
beings elsewhere.
>
>>> The religious expects require and claim the Bible to be without
>>> error
>>> and the word of prefect God. If one error is found they the Bible
>>> can
>>> not be the word of God.
>>>
>>> Since it is a fact the earth is not the center of the universe, then
>>> the Bible is false. If the Bible is false the odds are high that
>>> all
>>> claims of a god are equally false.
>>
>>>>Your atheism is a religion.
>>>
>>> No it isn't. An Atheist is perfectly sane and happy with *no* faith
>>> in a higher being. Mankind needs religions as much as a fish needs a
>>> bicycle.
>>>
>>
>>Atheists believe there is no god. That is their faith.
>
> No we don't believe. Faith is a belief without evidence or in the
> face of contradictory evidence.
>
> Since there is no evidence which shows there is any god/gods, and no
> contradictory evidence, You claim of Atheism being a faith is false.
>
You just stated "faith is a belief without evidence" You then went on to
state there is no evidence of a God. +or- sorry Bob but that is
faith/belief as well.
Religions may or may not require belief without supporting evidence.
Doesn't really matter to me. Judeo/Christianity beliefs are based on the
Word of God. The Bible. Jews basically the Old Testament, and Believers
the Old and New Testaments as established by God.
Bob, I am one of those people you would no doubt call pure crazy. My
faith cannot be shaken, I have heard Him, He has answered my prayers in
reality both by the circumstances coming to fruit as he had promised
months earlier by voice. I have also told others as it was unfolding and
while they did not hear, they did know what I was told and their grasp
of the situation told them that what I said was highly doubtful. All
happened as He had said. He also gives me joy, and immeasurable peace
when I need it most. I am thankful to Him for my existence.
Your beliefs are yours to deal with. I don't even know why it matters to
you if others believe or don't believe there is a God.
Jan Drew
> Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> Videotaping Acts
> Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> of Victims'
>
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!
m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: Jan Drew <jdrew63...@aol.com>
Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,misc.headlines,alt.support.breast-
implant,sci.med
Subject: Pediatrician Accused of Sexually Abusing Patients
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 18:58:12 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
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Mark Probert
> Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
> Recently confirmed.
Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
There are NO stars that are fixed in the skies. The Pleiades, a/k/a
M45 (especially gorgeous in my new 12" Dobsonian) is a star cluster.
They do travel together, but have motion relative to each other and to
other stars/clusters/etc.
The universe is expanding, thus making it impossible for any one
object to be fixed. All motion is relative to something else.
Note the news tonight of the Hubble imaging early bright blue galaxies
that were only 600 million years old when the light left them.
The James Webb Telescope will image further back in time, and we may
even get to see the universe before "clumping" set in.
> Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
> of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
> "human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
So far. We are finding that stars having planets are far more common
than ever thought before. None of the worlds discovered so far would
support life as we know it, but, it would be a boring universe if all
life look alike.
Jan Drew
Peter B
"Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb7c4566-d3b4-4461...@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 3, 1:52 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
> Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
> Recently confirmed.
Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
There are NO stars that are fixed in the skies. The Pleiades, a/k/a
M45 (especially gorgeous in my new 12" Dobsonian) is a star cluster.
They do travel together, but have motion relative to each other and to
other stars/clusters/etc.
The universe is expanding, thus making it impossible for any one
object to be fixed. All motion is relative to something else.
Note the news tonight of the Hubble imaging early bright blue galaxies
that were only 600 million years old when the light left them.
The James Webb Telescope will image further back in time, and we may
even get to see the universe before "clumping" set in.
================================================
I guess I'm going to have to search for the info. I remember it from the
newspapers in one instance about 10 or so years ago, Time flies when
having fun so my years may be off, I remember some others were found
earlier.
I hope to find one or all within the next several weeks. I will post up
either way what I find.
> Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the
> center
> of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is
> no
> "human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
So far. We are finding that stars having planets are far more common
than ever thought before. None of the worlds discovered so far would
support life as we know it, but, it would be a boring universe if all
life look alike.
================================================
Yes, and they all seem to follow similar rules. :)
My astronomy interests are slight, I have a scope but little time to use
it, sadly.
Mark Probert
> "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I generally wheel out the scope when I have company, especially those
with kids. It blows their young minds to see Saturns rings, Jupiters
moons, our moon, and some of the brighter nebula. I used to be into
astrophotography, but, that interest waned when I cooked my imager and
did not want to get a replacement as technology is progressing so
fast. I hate spending on the gear, only to have it obsolete by the
time I get home and use it the first time.
BTW, last night I did drag it out for a twenty minute viewing of the
Pleiades and Orion nebula. The sky was incredibly dark and clear,
which is a rarity here and the view was stunning.
Jan Drew
> On Jan 3, 1:52�am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> > Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
> > Recently confirmed.
>
> Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
> ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
> I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
> alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
> a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
> from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
Another anecdote. Prove it.
It is noted you are replying to a troll who uses filthy words. The
same as you do.
And, with my name is the subject line. You posted that is harassment
and stalking.
Which you do, and just did.
Jan Drew
Peter B
=====================================================
It was actually pretty dark here as well. The sky was clearer than what
I've seen for a long time, the stars as well. I just wish it were that
good when the meteor showers came through almost a month ago. Alas, it
was too bright and we only saw about 5.
I was going to get a camera for mine, figured I could put the whole
thing on a patio and sit inside grabbing shots plus moving around. My
wife felt I should sit there and view the stars in the cold. :) I still
may get one anyhow.
Bob Officer
Mark Probert <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 3, 1:52�am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>> Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
>> Recently confirmed.
>
>Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
>ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
>I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
>alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
>a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
>from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
I made My 1st refractor in 1961 from a 4 inch surplus military lens,
my 1 st reflector followed shortly after that. I current have a 17
inch f4 reflector. I built and donated a 29 inch reflector which I
ground and built to the club to which I belong.
>There are NO stars that are fixed in the skies. The Pleiades, a/k/a
>M45 (especially gorgeous in my new 12" Dobsonian) is a star cluster.
>They do travel together, but have motion relative to each other and to
>other stars/clusters/etc.
>The universe is expanding, thus making it impossible for any one
>object to be fixed. All motion is relative to something else.
>
>Note the news tonight of the Hubble imaging early bright blue galaxies
>that were only 600 million years old when the light left them.
That is a very interesting shot isn't it.
>The James Webb Telescope will image further back in time, and we may
>even get to see the universe before "clumping" set in.
and Along with Chandra, and the newer space bon remote telescopes on
the drawing with push the limit ever farther back in time.
>> Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
>> of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
>> "human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
>
>So far. We are finding that stars having planets are far more common
>than ever thought before. None of the worlds discovered so far would
>support life as we know it, but, it would be a boring universe if all
>life look alike.
Sad many Christians will be upset if they ever find life on other
worlds. because it will some of the Bible is false. Once any part of
the bible is shown to be false. It is not longer inerrant.
Mark Probert
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:05:02 -0800 (PST), in misc.health.alternative,
>
> >On Jan 3, 1:52 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> >> Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
> >> Recently confirmed.
>
> >Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
> >ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
> >I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
> >alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
> >a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
> >from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
>
> I made My 1st refractor in 1961 from a 4 inch surplus military lens,
> my 1 st reflector followed shortly after that. I current have a 17
> inch f4 reflector. I built and donated a 29 inch reflector which I
> ground and built to the club to which I belong.
I never had a desire for one that big. I prefer to go for the longer
focal lengths to increase resolution.
> >There are NO stars that are fixed in the skies. The Pleiades, a/k/a
> >M45 (especially gorgeous in my new 12" Dobsonian) is a star cluster.
> >They do travel together, but have motion relative to each other and to
> >other stars/clusters/etc.
> >The universe is expanding, thus making it impossible for any one
> >object to be fixed. All motion is relative to something else.
>
> >Note the news tonight of the Hubble imaging early bright blue galaxies
> >that were only 600 million years old when the light left them.
>
> That is a very interesting shot isn't it.
I am waiting for the usual TIFF image to d/l and see if I can do a
spot of enhancement.
> >The James Webb Telescope will image further back in time, and we may
> >even get to see the universe before "clumping" set in.
>
> and Along with Chandra, and the newer space bon remote telescopes on
> the drawing with push the limit ever farther back in time.
Almost to the beginning.
> >> Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
> >> of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
> >> "human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
>
> >So far. We are finding that stars having planets are far more common
> >than ever thought before. None of the worlds discovered so far would
> >support life as we know it, but, it would be a boring universe if all
> >life look alike.
>
> Sad many Christians will be upset if they ever find life on other
> worlds. because it will some of the Bible is false. Once any part of
> the bible is shown to be false. It is not longer inerrant.
I recall a movie from the 50's, where life was discovered on another
planet, and it caused a major religious upheaval. Just cannot recall
the name of the movie.
Klaatu Barada Nickto
Jan Drew
Is the subject. Refrain from the filthy words.
pautrey2
> There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> a pure form of ad hominem.
There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
they can taint the barrel and show how alternative medicine is no
good. It is
a pure form of ad hominem.
On Dec 25 2009, 6:29 pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 25, 1:16 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
> > "Jan Drew" <jdrew63...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:dc6e4ef4-fb6f-4951...@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Pediatrician Earl Bradley Accused of Raping Child Patients,
> > > Videotaping Acts
> > > Delaware State Attorney General's Office Says There May Be 'Hundreds
> > > of Victims'
>
> > > More at
> > >http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
>
> > Why are you so infatuated with this kind of stuff?
>
> There are those who "think" that by highlighting the rotten apples,
> they can taint the barrel and show how real medicine is no good. It is
> a pure form of ad hominem.
>
> This is a common tactic of the alties. There are others who search
> high and low (mainly low) for this kind of article.
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
No, I did not. You did Mark S Probert
I posted More at http://abcnews.go.com/WN/delaware-pediatrician-earl-bradley-accused-s...
Showing you dishonesty.
>
> Should we discuss Patrick Bolen's client, Stuie Suster? You support
> Bolen when you post his articles.
Jan Drew
Hasn't provided a single shred of proof he is a dr.
A ccurent medical license will do nicely.
Until you do that, anyone who is honest should not believe a word you
post.
Jan Drew
Is dishonest a liar,harasser, hypocrite with a filthy mouth.
For starters.
Peter B
"Peter B" <orig...@frag.com> wrote in message news:...> news:fb7c4566-d3b4-4461...@x15g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 3, 1:52 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>>
Test, looking for thread
Peter B
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 22:52:13 -0800, in misc.health.alternative, "Peter
> B" <orig...@frag.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bob Officer" <bobof...@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
>>news:hca0k5l9alphpiu38...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:02:02 -0800 (PST), in
>>> misc.health.alternative,
>>> PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Dec 30, 5:57 pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That just more evidence of why God doesn't exist.
>>>>
>>>>Would you say that life elsewhere in the universe does not exist
>>>>simply because you haven't seen it?
>>>
>>> Current commonly held christian belief requires that they be no life
>>> elsewhere in the universe. just as the bible and the christian
>>> religion require the earth to be the center of the universe and the
>>> stars in the sky must be fixed and unchanging.
>>>
>>Incorrect, only a few stars were fixed in the skies such as pleides.
>>Recently confirmed.
>
> They are not fixed either. They had a relative measured Velocity from
> the Earth and even differing velocities among themselves.
>
Ok, did a little research prompted in part here and also by Mark's
reply.
I could not find the word "fixed" in the Bible regarding Pleiades or
Orion.
What I did find was this...
Job 38:31
31"Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades,
Or loose the cords of Orion?
As well as a few other statements similar. So without wanting to appear
to be doing a dance and shuffle The only conclusions I can draw is that
we are all correct, just looking at it from various sides.
It appears that on Egyptian the northern circumpolar stars are called
"imperishable", also many people did use the word "fixed" because they
appeared to stay in the same place, usually atrologer types. Then, "In
the ANE stars that were always seen in the sky were called "fixed stars"
or "immutable or imperishable stars." Today we would call them the
"circumpolar stars." These are the stars closest to the North pole axis
that never set, but are always seen circling around the North star. In
Job 22:12 these circumpolar stars are called the "highest stars." This
assumes that the sky is dome shaped with the highest stars directly
above (TDOT, VII, 81)."
Now I do not know what ANE stands for, but there are many other such
writings about these stars, and while I have yet to find the news
article stating that the stars are indeed "circumpolar stars", I do
remember reading it a few years back.
To me it would seem that a lot of these terms can be used
interchangeably if you were to think of the astronomers using the term
circumpolar, and the less astronomy educated, fixed. I can see how they
would be interchangeable. You may differ with me, if so I would like to
know why.
The only thing I can find that would use the word "fixed" is
here....."the LORD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day
and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth," To me that would
appear to state that the laws are fixed, and will not change, but would
allow movement within the confines of those laws.
It was hard finding this thread again. ;)
pautrey2
> "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote in message news:...
>
> > "Mark Probert" <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Bob Officer
Mark Probert <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 5:03�pm, Bob Officer <boboffic...@127.0.0.7> wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 17:05:02 -0800 (PST), in misc.health.alternative,
>>
>> Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 3, 1:52 am, "Peter B" <origin...@frag.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Incorrect, only a few stars werefixedin the skies such as pleides.
>> >> Recently confirmed.
>>
>> >Peter, I have been an avid amateur astronomer since public school. I
>> >ground my first mirror, 6", in 1960 at the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.
>> >I have had a dozen telescopes over the years, and have worked
>> >alongside some professional astronomers (one is a chief astronomer at
>> >a well regarded planetarium). I keep up to date and have new feeds
>> >from many sources on many astronomy related topics.
>>
>> I made My 1st refractor in 1961 from a 4 inch surplus military lens,
>> my 1 st reflector followed shortly after that. I current have a 17
>> inch f4 reflector. I built and donated a 29 inch reflector which I
>> ground and built to the club to which I belong.
>
>I never had a desire for one that big. I prefer to go for the longer
>focal lengths to increase resolution.
I plan on downsizing in the future. Maybe looking to a C10 or 12.
something compact to carry on shipboard.
>> >There are NO stars that are fixed in the skies. The Pleiades, a/k/a
>> >M45 (especially gorgeous in my new 12" Dobsonian) is a star cluster.
>> >They do travel together, but have motion relative to each other and to
>> >other stars/clusters/etc.
>> >The universe is expanding, thus making it impossible for any one
>> >object to be fixed. All motion is relative to something else.
>>
>> >Note the news tonight of the Hubble imaging early bright blue galaxies
>> >that were only 600 million years old when the light left them.
>>
>> That is a very interesting shot isn't it.
>
>I am waiting for the usual TIFF image to d/l and see if I can do a
>spot of enhancement.
Those are neat images.
>> >The James Webb Telescope will image further back in time, and we may
>> >even get to see the universe before "clumping" set in.
>>
>> and �Along with Chandra, and the newer space bon remote telescopes on
>> the drawing with push the limit ever farther back in time.
>
>Almost to the beginning.
"To: Infinity and beyond!"
>> >> Also as far as I know the earth has not been concidered to be the center
>> >> of the Universe or even Universes, since the dark ages. Yes, there is no
>> >> "human" life other that that which orifinated from planet earth.
>>
>> >So far. We are finding that stars having planets are far more common
>> >than ever thought before. None of the worlds discovered so far would
>> >support life as we know it, but, it would be a boring universe if all
>> >life look alike.
>>
>> Sad many Christians will be upset if they ever find life on other
>> worlds. because it will some of the Bible is false. Once any part of
>> the bible is shown to be false. It is not longer inerrant.
>
>I recall a movie from the 50's, where life was discovered on another
>planet, and it caused a major religious upheaval. Just cannot recall
>the name of the movie.
>
>Klaatu Barada Nickto
Forbidden Planet?
Mark Probert
The Day The Earth Stood Still. Horrible remake a few years ago. The
original is a masterpiece.
Peter B
=================================================
Mark, what is your take on the 24 hour day that the sun stood still as
commanded by Joshua?