exercises for back
Zippy the Pinhead
>can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
>prevent low back pain? Thanks.
Sure. Any primary health care provider would, as would a physical
therapist or certified athletic trainer upon their prescription.
Don't mess with your back. You only get one. What is bothering you
could be simple overuse or it may be something more serious. It
deserves proper medical evaluation and treatment.
Wayne S. Hill
Your screen name is apt. Ninety-five percent of physicians know
jack about exercise, including for rehab/therapy. Physical
therapists are good, but most "certified athletic trainers" are
morons who spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.
BTW, the OP didn't actually say he had low back pain.
--
-Wayne
Wayne S. Hill
> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to
> strengthen the back to prevent low back pain? Thanks.
That depends ($1 to LM).
How's your back now? Do you have acute pain, chronic pain, no
pain?
Follow up to misc.fitness.weights.
--
-Wayne
David Kerber
j...@xtern.com says...
> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
> prevent low back pain? Thanks.
Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your mileage
may vary enormously), I have found that stretching, setups and leg
lifts helped the most; in the absence of structural damage (which only
a physician can diagnose), strengthing the abdominals is generally
considered to be important in preventing chronic lower back pain.
My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I started
fencing as a sport.
--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!
REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
Wayne S. Hill
> j...@xtern.com says...
>> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to
>> strengthen the back to prevent low back pain? Thanks.
>
> Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your
> mileage may vary enormously), I have found that stretching,
> setups and leg lifts helped the most;
What are setups?
> in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician
> can diagnose),
but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
> strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be
> important in preventing chronic lower back pain.
Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
> My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I
> started fencing as a sport.
You could certainly do a lot worse.
David Kerber
> David Kerber wrote:
>
> > j...@xtern.com says...
> >> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to
> >> strengthen the back to prevent low back pain? Thanks.
> >
> > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which your
> > mileage may vary enormously), I have found that stretching,
> > setups and leg lifts helped the most;
>
> What are setups?
A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.
> > in the absence of structural damage (which only a physician
> > can diagnose),
>
> but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can diagnose
structural damage in the lower back? Because it normally requires x-
rays or MRI's to detect.
> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be
> > important in preventing chronic lower back pain.
>
> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists routinely
tell people with lower back pain without any detectable damage to work
on strengthening their abdominal muscles, and it works for most of
them.
> > My occasional sore lower back went away completely once I
> > started fencing as a sport.
>
> You could certainly do a lot worse.
--
Wayne S. Hill
> hil...@asme.org says...
>> David Kerber wrote:
>> >
>> > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which
>> > your mileage may vary enormously), I have found that
>> > stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;
>>
>> What are setups?
>
> A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.
Oh. Heh: I never considered that, perhaps because I thought
you might mean step-ups.
>> > in the absence of structural damage (which only a
>> > physician can diagnose),
>>
>> but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
>
> Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can
> diagnose structural damage in the lower back? Because it
> normally requires x- rays or MRI's to detect.
This is really a big problem. It is said that you can't tell
from an autopsy whether someone's back hurt. If you take an
X-ray or MRI of an adult walking down the street without
symptoms or history of back pain, there's something like a 20%
chance that they'll show a disk bulge or outright herniation
(with the probability increasing with age, IIRC). If you take
an X-ray or MRI of someone with severe LBP, it may or may not
reflect such an abnormality.
>> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be
>> > important in preventing chronic lower back pain.
>>
>> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
>
> Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists
> routinely tell people with lower back pain without any
> detectable damage to work on strengthening their abdominal
> muscles, and it works for most of them.
It's difficult to say what actually works for people with LBP.
Studies show that LBP tends to clear up with time, regardless
of the nature of the intervention (chiro, massage, weights,
cardio, accupuncture, shamanism, aromatherapy, you name it).
Thus, it's difficult to say that ab exercises work on LBP.
With that said, the likelihood of long-term freedom from back
pain, or of performing the tasks of life in the presence of
back pain, is maximized by performing activities that
strengthen the trunk musculature, particularly the back
muscles.
I hurt my back a couple of years ago with an unfortunate
motion in deadlifting. After hobbling around for a while, I
found the best therapy was using it, gingerly at first, but
with astonishingly heavy exercise in short order. I'm not
saying that this is the answer for everyone, but if you suffer
from occasional LBP you owe it to yourself to do what you can
to strengthen your back when you can.
--
-Wayne
David Kerber
> David Kerber wrote:
>
> > hil...@asme.org says...
> >> David Kerber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Speaking strictly from personal experience (from which
> >> > your mileage may vary enormously), I have found that
> >> > stretching, setups and leg lifts helped the most;
> >>
> >> What are setups?
> >
> > A misspelling of sit-ups <GG>.
>
> Oh. Heh: I never considered that, perhaps because I thought
> you might mean step-ups.
>
> >> > in the absence of structural damage (which only a
> >> > physician can diagnose),
> >>
> >> but not reliably or necessarily correctly,
> >
> > Then who can if not a physician? Are you saying nobody can
> > diagnose structural damage in the lower back? Because it
> > normally requires x- rays or MRI's to detect.
>
> This is really a big problem. It is said that you can't tell
> from an autopsy whether someone's back hurt. If you take an
> X-ray or MRI of an adult walking down the street without
> symptoms or history of back pain, there's something like a 20%
> chance that they'll show a disk bulge or outright herniation
> (with the probability increasing with age, IIRC). If you take
> an X-ray or MRI of someone with severe LBP, it may or may not
> reflect such an abnormality.
Definitely true. However, I'm talking about people who have both LBP
*and* detectable damage, such as a herniated disk, cracked vertebra,
etc. I am well aware that most of the time there is no detectable
cause for pain, and I've also seen the info about people who show
indications of bulging disks with no symptoms.
> >> > strengthing the abdominals is generally considered to be
> >> > important in preventing chronic lower back pain.
> >>
> >> Perhaps this is considered generally, but it is incorrect.
> >
> > Why do you say that? Physical and occupational therapists
> > routinely tell people with lower back pain without any
> > detectable damage to work on strengthening their abdominal
> > muscles, and it works for most of them.
>
> It's difficult to say what actually works for people with LBP.
> Studies show that LBP tends to clear up with time, regardless
> of the nature of the intervention (chiro, massage, weights,
> cardio, accupuncture, shamanism, aromatherapy, you name it).
> Thus, it's difficult to say that ab exercises work on LBP.
True, but from what I've read, and from my own experience, continuing
the exercises frequently keeps it from coming back. I.E., people who
used to have bouts of pain every couple of months might go a year or
more between bouts after they start doing stretching and abdominal
exercises.
> With that said, the likelihood of long-term freedom from back
> pain, or of performing the tasks of life in the presence of
> back pain, is maximized by performing activities that
> strengthen the trunk musculature, particularly the back
> muscles.
I think the key is to strengthen all of the muscles which hold your
upper body in position, which would include both the back muscles and
the abdominals.
> I hurt my back a couple of years ago with an unfortunate
> motion in deadlifting. After hobbling around for a while, I
> found the best therapy was using it, gingerly at first, but
> with astonishingly heavy exercise in short order. I'm not
> saying that this is the answer for everyone, but if you suffer
> from occasional LBP you owe it to yourself to do what you can
> to strengthen your back when you can.
I've never had a traumatic injury to my back, just occasional pain
from (for example) too much digging in the yard, etc. The heat (from
working up a good sweat), stretching and movement of fencing does
wonders for me.
Zippy the Pinhead
> but most "certified athletic trainers" are
>morons who spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.
Interesting.
PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical school.
Weekend, huh?
OK.
Wayne S. Hill
> "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
>
>> but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who
>> spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.
>
> Interesting.
>
> PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical
> school.
Physiotherapy programs are hard to get into, but not harder than
med school. The person you're most likely to encounter in a PT
environment is a Physical Therapist Assistant, which is a 2-year
Associates Degree in the states. PTA's are allowed to do
anything the PT says they can (so it depends on the PT and the
PTA). In some environments, the PTA has free rein. Trainer
certifications are a dime a dozen (at least here in the states).
> Weekend, huh?
Yep. A weekend.
--
-Wayne
Lyle McDonald
>
> Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
>
> > "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
> >
> >> but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who
> >> spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.
Careful here with the terms you're throwing around.
Certified athletic trainers (ATC's and why it's not CAT I don't know:
the guys who handle taping, icing, all that shit) have to go through a
shitload of hours (it's like 1200) to get certified.
You're talking about certified personal trainers.
> >
> > Interesting.
> >
> > PT / ATC school is harder to get into than is medical
> > school.
>
> Physiotherapy programs are hard to get into, but not harder than
> med school.
They were a few years back.
This had to with enormous demand (why bother with med school when you
can go to PT school, be done in 4 years and make nearly as much money)
and not a lot of programs.
Lyle
Zippy the Pinhead
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>"Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
>> >> but most "certified athletic trainers" are morons who
>> >> spent a weekend getting an AFAA or ACE certification.
>
>Careful here with the terms you're throwing around.
>
>Certified athletic trainers (ATC's and why it's not CAT I don't know:
>the guys who handle taping, icing, all that shit) have to go through a
>shitload of hours (it's like 1200) to get certified.
>
>You're talking about certified personal trainers.
He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt. 3% body fat, and it's all
between his ears.
gksh...@ucdavis.edu
> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
> prevent low back pain? Thanks.
Something you might consider doing is to stretch the psoas muscle, which
tends to stiffen up if you spend a lot of time sitting (in the seated
position, the psoas is lax/short). It is a rather difficult muscle to
stretch, since it is underneath a bunch of other muscles and hence hard
to isolate. One good psoas stretch is to lie on a bench with your butt
on one end, and grab one knee and bring it to your chest letting the
other (straight) leg hang off the end of the bench.
This is relevant because a tight psoas tends to make you rotate the
pelvis forward, creating an arch or kink in the lower back, an
extremely common element of lower back pain.
Strong abs also help, but if you do sit-ups or leg raises, make very sure
that your back doesn't arch up because that will create the same kind of
lower-back kink as a tight psoas.
Greg Shenaut
Lyle McDonald
What are you babbling about?
Lyle
Elzinator
>can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
>prevent low back pain? Thanks.
This website is still being developed, but some of the info may be
useful:
http://www.moleculegirl.com/spinal_homepage.htm
It's not enough to just live. You've got to have something to live for.
Elzinator
>In misc.fitness.aerobic j...@xtern.com wrote (Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT):
>> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
>> prevent low back pain? Thanks.
>
>Something you might consider doing is to stretch the psoas muscle, which
>tends to stiffen up if you spend a lot of time sitting (in the seated
>position, the psoas is lax/short). It is a rather difficult muscle to
>stretch, since it is underneath a bunch of other muscles and hence hard
>to isolate. One good psoas stretch is to lie on a bench with your butt
>on one end, and grab one knee and bring it to your chest letting the
>other (straight) leg hang off the end of the bench.
>
>This is relevant because a tight psoas tends to make you rotate the
>pelvis forward, creating an arch or kink in the lower back, an
>extremely common element of lower back pain.
Very true (comments individual with chronically tight psoas).
Your stretch is a good one, however, for those with chronically tight
psoas, finding a bench and assuming a prone position is not always
convenient.
Another alternative, one which I can do no matter where I am standing
(although it sometimes elicits weird looks from passersby), is with
one leg extended, the other leg back, pelvis squared to the front, and
lean back with the upper torso, with a slight rotation with the upper
torso (being careful not to rotate at the hips).
Or have someone do ART on it (better find your 'happy place')
>Strong abs also help, but if you do sit-ups or leg raises, make very sure
>that your back doesn't arch up because that will create the same kind of
>lower-back kink as a tight psoas.
Increasing ab strength and use may help low back by virtue of
stability to the spine (agonist/antagonist).
Sorry, Wayne, but despite your belief that increasing ab strength does
not improve back pain, I disagree. Concomitant training of both back
and abs effectively reduces back pain in many cases, but not all. Low
back pain is multifactorial; not one fix fixes all.
Wayne S. Hill
> Increasing ab strength and use may help low back by virtue
> of stability to the spine (agonist/antagonist).
>
> Sorry, Wayne, but despite your belief that increasing ab
> strength does not improve back pain, I disagree. Concomitant
> training of both back and abs effectively reduces back pain
> in many cases, but not all. Low back pain is multifactorial;
> not one fix fixes all.
I wouldn't say that's my belief. My point is that the knee-jerk
tendency to tell LBP sufferers to work their abs and ignore
their backs is a Bad Idea <tm>. The problem is as likely to be
a weak back as it is weak abs.
--
-Wayne
Clyde
The Multifidus Back Pain Solution: Simple Exercises That Target the Muscles
That Count
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1572242787/002-3667207-3941654?v=glance
Anyone read it?
Clyde
OmegaZero2003
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
news:3FDE8816...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
Sounds like a certified personal trainer.
>
> Lyle
Knack
<j...@xtern.com> wrote in message
news:f148681411dd31fb...@news.meganetnews.com...
> can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
> prevent low back pain? Thanks.
See illustrations and instructions at
http://www.nismat.org/orthocor/programs/lowback.html
See also the instructions at
http://www.physical-therapy.org.uk/exercises.htm
See also the book 'The Healthy Back Exercise Book : The Step-By-Step Guide
to Achieving and Maintaining at Healthy Back'; by Deborah Fielding Rn, Simon
Fielding
Alternatively, try an aerobic rowing machine at low resistance for a few
minutes. If it causes no back pain by the following morning, then try it
again for a few minutes longer the following day. Keep on increasing the
time by a few minutes until you get to the maximum amount of execrise that
you can tolerate without discomfort; not to exceed about 10 minutes every
other day. Then do the same for the resistance adjustment. That's enough for
an average person who doesn't toil with heavy manual labor at their job.
A Pilates machine could be a more versatile alternative to a rowing machine.
Zippy the Pinhead
Sorry, dipshit. I mistook you for someone who can read.
Elzinator
Exactly my point, but that is not what you said in your two posts.
Elzinator
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT, j...@xtern.com wrote:
>
>>can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
>>prevent low back pain? Thanks.
>
> There are a number of things which you can do to prevent low
>back pain (some are exercises, others complimentary).
>
>#1: A stretching program - which emphasizes the low back, pelvic and
>thigh musculature (anterior and posterior).
However, depending on the origin of the back pain, too much stretching
can be just as detrimental as none.
>
>#2: Abdominal strengthening - with crunches being the preferred
>exercise due to their relative safety and excellent results (if done
>properly).
>
>#3: Cardio training - (with a focus on low-impact). My opinion is
>that swimming is THE best.
Elliptical trainers are another low impact alternative.
>#4: Proprioception training - using a therapy ball. (Note:
>proprioception is your 6th sense..
Not i'ts not, it's your nervous system.
>and how your body knows where it is
>in space.) Quite often, low back pain is due to problems with
>proprioceptive/postural muscles in the 5th muscle layer - called the
>multifidus muscles. Using a therapy ball can help you gain control of
>the muscles of proprioception, and will prevent and/or eliminate back
>pain.
>
>#5: Chiropractic adjustments - as is used regularly by most of the
>world's top athletes (Olympics, NFL, PGA, NBA, NHL, etc..).
Very few chiros have the knowledge base or self-control (i.e.
adjusting the entire spine is not necessary) to be effective, and can
in fact exacerbate issues.
> Low back pain is very difficult to diagnose. And it can be
>tough to treat. In my opinion, no one approach is going to fix
>everybody. So my method is a multi-pronged attack. With my own
>patients, they get adjusted, do stretches, and lots of strengthening
>and conditioning exercises. With this combined approach, I've got
>about a 97% success rate.
>
> If you have any specific questions, please feel free to e-mail
>me: c1sublux AT hotmail.com.
Oh no, not another one........
Lyle McDonald
I can read just fine.
you need to try being coherent.
I presume you are taking issue with something I wrote regarding athletic
trainers vs. personal trainers but you're too incoherent for me to
figure out what issue exactly.
Lyle
John HUDSON
wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:11:47 GMT, Atlas <c1su...@hotmail.comXNOSPAMX>
>wrote:
>
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
>>On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT, j...@xtern.com wrote:
>>
>>>can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
>>>prevent low back pain? Thanks.
>>
>> There are a number of things which you can do to prevent low
>>back pain (some are exercises, others complimentary).
>>
>>#1: A stretching program - which emphasizes the low back, pelvic and
>>thigh musculature (anterior and posterior).
>
>However, depending on the origin of the back pain, too much stretching
>can be just as detrimental as none.
>>
>>#2: Abdominal strengthening - with crunches being the preferred
>>exercise due to their relative safety and excellent results (if done
>>properly).
>>
>>#3: Cardio training - (with a focus on low-impact). My opinion is
>>that swimming is THE best.
>
>Elliptical trainers are another low impact alternative.
>
>>#4: Proprioception training - using a therapy ball. (Note:
>>proprioception is your 6th sense..
>
>Not i'ts not, it's your nervous system.
No it's not!
It is the awareness of what our nervous system does without any input
from us. It may quite happily be labelled a "sixth sense" as it sits
quite well with the other senses. See:
http://www.istd.org/features/health/proprioception.html
Peter Allen
news:H0MDb.7385$0s2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
If you're going to do anything on a rowing machine, you should find a
technique guide first and make sure you're going through the correct
motions. www.concept2.co.uk has such a guide. If you're doing the wrong
thing, then you probably will injure your back further (especially if you
have the resistance setting up high).
Rowing motion is as follows: sit on the machine, feet strapped on the
footplates, legs fully extended, sitting upright or leaning slightly back
(in a position you could comfortably hold forever, so don't lean too far
back), holding the handle just touching the bottom of the ribcage. That's
called backstops; it's the finish position you should reach every stroke.
Extend hands forwards; when your arms are straight, rock over from the hips
to either a sensible position or as far forwards as your hamstrings will let
you (most people will be limited by hamstrings; if you're not, then find a
position that doesn't have your legs hitting your chest). Then keep the
upper body still and just let your knees come up, when your shins are about
vertical you are at frontstops; making sure your upper body is held firm,
push down with the legs; as your legs get fully straight lean back to your
original position and finally pull the handle back to the finish position
with the arms. Repeat...
When you've got the sequence right, you'll find it's natural to do the whole
thing in a fluid motion, so you're never really paused except momentarily at
frontstops.
Points to watch:
Sequence is hands-body-slide-slide back-lean back-pull in-repeat
Don't let your knees come up while you're still pulling your hands in - very
common gym error, it wastes a lot of work.
Don't lean back too far: you'll put a lot of stress on your back and damage
it; even if it does make your scores better.
Don't bum-shove: so when you push with the legs, your arse moves backwards.
If the handle doesn't move backwards at the same rate, then you are wasting
a lot of work, and all that wasted work is going into pulling your spine
apart. Not good: you need to use your abs to hold your back firm, and your
glutes to keep it at the same angle while the legs are going down.
Ignore the gym staff, who almost certainly don't have a clue what they're
doing, going by the number of people who get taught bad technique.
The rating (number of strokes per minute) is fairly irrelevant. Despite what
staff may tell you, rating higher is not the same as working harder.
The split time (time to cover 500m, which will be the big numbers on the
display) is relevant: the lower that number, the harder you are working. The
monitor on the machine will compensate for the resistance level, so a 2:00
split means the same amount of work whatever resistance you set.
The high resistance settings are essentially there so you can do strength
work on the machine. No serious rowers do long pieces of work at level 10:
it's not good for your back. Level 4 or 5 (or 6 if the machine hasn't been
cleaned in ages) is what most rowers normally use, even international types.
Peter
Ian G Batten
Peter Allen <petero...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The split time (time to cover 500m, which will be the big numbers on the
> display) is relevant: the lower that number, the harder you are working. The
> monitor on the machine will compensate for the resistance level, so a 2:00
> split means the same amount of work whatever resistance you set.
If the objective is aerobic exercise, you can alternatively use a heart
rate monitor. There's a little dongle for the Concept2 which will put
the rate measured by a Polar chest strap up onto the display, or
obviously you can just glance at your wrist. That allows you to raise
the amount of exercise you're doing in line with your improving fitness.
It's very easy to overwork with a rowing machine and end up doing
essential anaerobic exercise, which probably is not your real
objective. You should be able to reduce your heart rate by rowing
slightly less hard: if you can't, you're probably working too hard.
Watch out for compartment syndrome in your shins, too.
ian
Zippy the Pinhead
Zippy the Pinhead
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:20:38 -0600, Lyle McDonald
>> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>
>I presume you are taking issue with something I wrote regarding athletic
>trainers vs. personal trainers but you're too incoherent for me to
>figure out what issue exactly.
I'll type it slowly, then.
Going back to the top of the thread, the guy you responded to said
that ATCs got such a certification in a weekend. You tried to correct
him and he responded in his usual manner. I commented to you on the
contents of his cranium and then you turned on me with your "babbling"
post.
And quite frankly, none of this is worth my time. You'll answer into
a vacuum if at all, so you might as well not. I won't see any repy.
Lyle McDonald
>
> On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:23:51 -0600, Lyle McDonald
> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>
> >Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:20:38 -0600, Lyle McDonald
> >> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> He's frequently wrong, but never in doubt. 3% body fat, and it's all
> >> >> between his ears.
> >> >
> >> >What are you babbling about?
> >>
> >> Sorry, dipshit. I mistook you for someone who can read.
> >
> >I can read just fine.
> >you need to try being coherent.
> >
> >I presume you are taking issue with something I wrote regarding athletic
> >trainers vs. personal trainers but you're too incoherent for me to
> >figure out what issue exactly.
> >
> >Lyle
Shot prematurely, eh?
Don't worry, it happens to everyone.
Lyle
Elzinator
wrote:
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:55:13 -0500, Elzinator <elzi...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>However, depending on the origin of the back pain, too much stretching
>>can be just as detrimental as none.
>
> I partially agree with your comment. Perhaps we could agree
>on this statement:
>
> Too much stretching of an area that's got too much ligamentous
>laxity and/or instability could be detrimental. However, in the
>absence of pathology and/or mechanical trauma, stretching is
>reasonably safe, and should be considered as part of any low back pain
>management program.
And it behooves the patient for the practitioner to determine laxity
and/or instability issues before treatment or therapy prescription.
>>Not i'ts not, it's your nervous system.
>
> Not quite. Proprioception is a single *function* of your
>nervous system.
>
> Other functions of your nervous system are
>
> -nociception (perception of pain), mechanoreception,
>perception of hot & cold, vibration, pressure, light touch, two-point
>discrimination, tickle, sharp vs. dull, voluntary movement,
>involuntary movement (reflex, constriction of smooth and/or cardiac
>muscle, constriction of pupil, sphincter control, peristolsis,
>digestion, secretion), elimination, regulation of body chemistry,
>regulation of body temperature, vision, hearing, taste, smell, all
>mental functions, cellular repair and replication, and control over
>all other functions of the body (including immune system, endocrine
>system, etc...).
>
> The nervous system is called the "master system" because it
>literally controls every function of everything else in the body -
>right down to the cellular level. It's by far, the most complex of
>our systems.
>
> So to call proprioception your nervous system is not really
>true. It's just one function of the nervous system.
Good description. I stand corrected.
> Now having said that, proproiception is your sixth sense - in
>that it enables you to perceive where you are in space. For example,
>if you closed your eyes right now, and you reached your arm out in
>front of you to grab a pencil on your desk - your arm would be able to
>know where to go - even without visual input. (Barring proprioceptive
>damage), you would be able to move your arm in the correct direction,
>and with amazing precision be able to not only grab the pencil, but to
>pick it up, and even write or draw with it. That's actually pretty
>amazing when you think about it.
Well, not really, considering that the cerebellum is the central
processor here. That is why babies do not have any control over their
limbs or motor development until at least 6 months; that part of the
brain is undeveloped. After examining 5 brains from adults and
comparing them to a baby's brain (actually it was from a still born
baby at ~41 weeks), the cerebrum was the least developed part of the
brain.
However, I understand your awe. I tend to think of it in systematic
cognitive expectation of movement (a learned imprint) and the cascade
of signals from brain to peripheral nervous system and musculoskeletal
recruitment, with signals transmitted back to the brain.
I certainly would not call it voodoo, which the term 'sixth sense'
implies to the general population.
> Getting back to the low back pain discussion. There are five
>layers of muscle in the back. And in the deepest layer are the tiny
>"postural" muscles - the rotatores and multifidi. It's the latter
>which often loses control. And subsequently leads to muscular
>instability.
>
> The multifidi muscles are very rich with proprioceptors
>(specialized nerve endings which transmit proprioceptive afferent
>information to the dorsal horn of the spinal cord - where it synapses,
>and then travels up the chord via the spino-thalamic tract to reach
>it's terminal synapse in the brain).
>
> By challenging these muscles (via doing specific exercises on
>an unstable surface - such as a therapy - ball), you're able to
>develop muscular proprioceptive control and stability. And the result
>is decrease or complete elimination of pain.
That depends on underlying source of back pain. For instance, in the
case of a collapsed or herniated lumbar disc and nerve root
impingement. I'm personally familiar with this.
The exercises help, but they have to be performed with caution and
extreme self-awareness. And within existing limitations. This varies
for each individual based on the origin of that individual's back
pain.
>>>#5: Chiropractic adjustments - as is used regularly by most of the
>>>world's top athletes (Olympics, NFL, PGA, NBA, NHL, etc..).
>>
>>Very few chiros have the knowledge base or self-control (i.e.
>>adjusting the entire spine is not necessary) to be effective, and can
>>in fact exacerbate issues.
>
> Oh yeah? Where'd you get that?
Over 7 years of dealing with incompetent practitioners.
A few have done more damage than help.
Once I ended up in a neck brace after a neck adjustment.
Another prescribed excessive stretching without predetermining that I
had joint hyperlaxity issues.
The last one insisted on 'adjusting' my entire spine when it didn't
need it and ultimately caused nerve impingement in my C6 (my MD was
furious and ordered an MRI).
My current spinal rehab specialist is a chiropractor, but he is not a
typical representation of the profession. He has done graduate work in
neurology, he is a certified ART probationer, has kinesiology
training, is certified CSCS, trained in electrotherapy and
acupuncture, has an insatiable interest in endocrinology (which we
discuss during all my appts), etc. And he's also a former athlete
himself. He also treats Olympic athletes, national competitive
strength athletes, and the UTA sports teams.
He is the exception and is not confined to thinking in the sublax
chiro box. He is called The Magic Man (a term of endearment from those
of us whom he has kept out of the surgery room).
>>Oh no, not another one........
>
>>It's not enough to just live. You've got to have something to live for.
>
> I have a lot of things that I live for. One of which is
>helping other people feel and function better via a safe, non-drug
>approach to total body wellness.
>
> You ought to try it. 30,000,000 satisfied patients couldn't
>all be wrong.
>
> Or take it from Dan O'Brein (who won the gold in the 1996
>Olympic decathlon - and thus earning the title of "world's greatest
>athlete"): "You obviously can't compete at your fullest if you're not
>in alignment. And your body can't heal if your back is not in
>alignment. It was the holistic idea that I liked about chiropractic
>and that is what track and field is about. Every track and field
>athlete that that I have ever met has seen a chiropractor at one time
>or another. In track and field, it is absolutely essential.
>Chiropractic care is one of the things I think that no one has denied
>or refuted."
You are preaching to the wrong person.
Richard Schumacher
Zippy the Pinhead wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:01:25 GMT, j...@xtern.com wrote:
>
> >can anyone recommend any resources for exercises to strengthen the back to
> >prevent low back pain? Thanks.
>
> Sure. Any primary health care provider would, as would a physical
> therapist or certified athletic trainer upon their prescription.
>
> Don't mess with your back. You only get one. What is bothering you
> could be simple overuse or it may be something more serious. It
> deserves proper medical evaluation and treatment.
Walking does it for me, both as a preventative and to relieve a strain. The
first time I pulled a muscle I was prescribed Flexeril and bed rest. Sheesh!
I was out of action for a week.
After your doctor has determined that there is no serious injury, try just
walking a few miles 3 or more times a week.
Hari Har Singh
"Richard Schumacher" <no-...@thank-you.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3FE72F25...@thank-you.com...
Indeed, walking is the best.
Instead of miles - make it 30 to 60 minutes every 2nd day (or every day?).
So you can keep your personal pace, have no pressure to finish a certain
distance and from time to time you'll discover that you can walk a longer
distance in the same amount of time.
And try to walk in good and nice environments with fresh air, if possible.
Hari Har Singh