Curtis Leffler is dead
Leonard Ferguson
> Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> >WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
> >Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson, or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
>
> Excuse me, but I believe that Mr. Pacifico will be very surprised to find out
> that he is dead.
>
> Eric Midkiff
No he isn't dead, but he is an example of a well known athlete who
has suffered cardiovascular damage from steroid use.
Grendelcdr
>>Excuse me, but I believe that Mr. Pacifico will be very surprised to find
>out
>>that he is dead.
>
Which, surprised or dead?
Eric Midkif
William Greene
Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
>
> My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
> anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
> Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most
cases
> would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
> from steroid use many years prior.
I know you guys are enjoying screaming at old Lenny here, but his point
here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
other an accident).
PusBag
>From: "William Greene"
>If a report read that someone
>died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
>came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
>other an accident).
Or the blow could have
come from Monica Lewinsky.
PB
></PRE></HTML>
Deepsquatter
<lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
>Robert Schuh wrote:
>
>> MOTHERFUCKER LEONARD! Can you get ANY facts straight? HE is/was not a
>> professional bodybuilder.
>
>Shut up the hell up, that's SO far beside the point. Professional or not,
>his death was causally related to steroid use. Whether he was hereditarily
>
>prone to cardiovascular failure (i.e. naturally low HDL) I don't know. But
>
>certainly if he was, then it's a shame he either ignored or wasn't informed
>
>of the extreme risk he was taking. Although, the information is readily
>available, so with all due respect I'd have to doubt the latter.
>
>
>> Even if he did die from steroids, people have been using and
>> abusing anabolic steroids for over 30 years with no deaths.
>
>WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
>Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson, or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
>
When exactly did Larry Pacifico die?
>> You are a dick.
>>
>
>And you are ignorant.
>
>
Quicksilver
battled little green men from mars, Leonard Ferguson
<lenny@san_quentin.gov> who is a clear *WINNER* shooed away flying
elves, unleashed his infinite number of monkeys on his infinite number
of typewriters and the following hilarity ensued:
>Grendelcdr wrote:
>
>> Leonard Ferguson wrote:
>> >WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
>> >Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson, or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
>>
>> Excuse me, but I believe that Mr. Pacifico will be very surprised to find out
>> that he is dead.
>>
>> Eric Midkiff
>
> No he isn't dead, but he is an example of a well known athlete who
>has suffered cardiovascular damage from steroid use.
Forget Pacifico, I want to know where DALE Midkiff is in all this!
--
"But we're the Misfits - Our songs are better! We are the Misfits - the Misfits and we're gonna get her!"
Wings of Silver, Nerves of Steel...Silverhawks!
Partly Metal, Partly Real....Silverhawks
(Wait, isn't metal real? Hmm..)
Other People's Fun Links:
http://cartoons.vpga.com/silverhawks/
http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~sbehling/silverhawks/index.html
http://members.xoom.com/SteelWill/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9611/silverhawksgallery.html
Buttsbnny
may do so on the newsgroup. We will be sending all of those that are
APPROPRATE to the family. For those who are just going to squalk ignorance -
your cruel and unkind statements will not be sent on to the family. They are
in enough pain and do not need your ignorance to exacerbate it.
Adam Fahy
> I know you guys are enjoying screaming at old Lenny here, but his point
> here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
> died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
> came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
> other an accident).
Yet it is still no more accurate than if I were to implicate a voodoo
curse, ne?
-Adam
William Greene
No, you're absolutely correct Adam. The point is that an autopsy report
cannot be used as proof or refutation regarding whether voodoo was
involved. The report will only say that "heart stopped beating, cause
unknown." It won't say that it stopped beating because I stuck a pin
through the chest of a doll.
alway...@my-dejanews.com
"William Greene" <william...@msfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
> Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
> >
> > My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
> > anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
> > Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most
> cases
> > would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
> > from steroid use many years prior.
>
> here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
> died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
> came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
> other an accident).
So I guess that if someone was squashed by a 500# pallet of ' testerona
ethnate' in a Mexican warehouse, the death cert. would not list steroids as
COD. ;^)
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
alway...@my-dejanews.com
What I never understood well was the relationship between muscle size and
strength. It seems that a BB of Curtis' size, would have been doing
exercises leading to strength to a goodly degree. Yet, for all his muscles,
he performed dismally in the WSM competition, relative to those that seemed
smaller by comparison. I know the CNS component may be better in
powerlifters, on average, than bb-ers, but look at the 1997 winner; same
musculature (maybe less) than Curtis, yet he killed everyone else, even in
the deadlift!!
I also see this kind of question come up here; why is it that some bb-ers
seem weak for their size, compared to, for example, myself who, while not a
geek, is smaller, relatively, and probably less experienced (long-term
training-wise) than typical bb-ers. And I am certainly less
'Vitamin-advantaged' than them. Yet the bb-ers I know and see in various
gyms do a fair amount less (accounting for bodyweight and relative limb
lengths) while training in virtually every lift than I do? Can thier other
aspects be that less 'trained' than mine? Like their CNS's or support
structures like ligs/tends etc.?
I wonder what a good study of his phenomena would show, WRT the correlation
of muscle size and strength.
Or is all this my imagination?
Vitore Selca
> Folks, death due to blood clotting is directly attributable to
>steroid overuse, or abuse. It is well documented that steroids
>cause a severe depression of HDL cholesterol, which is the "good"
>cholesterol fraction that prevents clots and heart attacks by
>"scrubbing" your arteries clean.
I think you are confusing blood clotting with coronary diseases due
to arteries becoming occluded. Blood clots can come about for dozens
of reasons, but have more to do with one's platelet counts and other
clotting agents, which, to my knowledge, are not affected by steroids.
Blood clots forming in the legs are a very common cause of pulmonary
embolism and stroke. My father is on anti-coagulates at the moment so
that he doesn't suffer Leffler's fate. He has perfect HDL levels and was
never a steroid user.
At any rate, if you are convinced that you have actual information to
relay, please start a thread and provide your citations. Otherwise, fuck
off.
Viki
--
"I wouldn't bother following up to someone who said something
THAT stupid!" --Greg Whitman
Leonard Ferguson
> to arteries becoming occluded. Blood clots can come about for dozens
> of reasons, but have more to do with one's platelet counts and other
> clotting agents, which, to my knowledge, are not affected by steroids.
> Blood clots forming in the legs are a very common cause of pulmonary
> embolism and stroke. My father is on anti-coagulates at the moment so
> that he doesn't suffer Leffler's fate. He has perfect HDL levels and was
> never a steroid user.
>
> At any rate, if you are convinced that you have actual information to
> relay, please start a thread and provide your citations. Otherwise, fuck
> off.
Nope not confusing anything. Your knowledge is just lacking. A major
side effect of steroid use, especially in high dosages, is increased
platelet
aggregation, that is increased tendency of the blood to form clots.
Don't take my word for it though. Read this journal entry which I have
already sited in a previous post:
Ferenchick G, et al. "Androgenic/anabolic steroid use and platelet
aggregation.
A pilot study in weightlifters." Amer J Med Sci, 1992;303:78-82
Oh and one more thing..... Fuck you.
Lenny
Greg Whitman
I'm not an expert, but I have learned in my experience with
social science and medical data management that pilot studies
are just that -- initial studies to see whether a larger
effort is worthwhile. Is there a followup study, then?
I couldn't find one. Meanwhile, in the study you cite,
there were 28 participants. The conclusion from the abstract
is thus: "this study suggests an association between androgen
use, age, and increased platelet sensitivity to collagen in
weightlifters, and may be helpful in explaining recent
thrombotic disease in androgen users...." In the absence
of any futher evidence, this statement, and this study,
seems to carry only a small amount of weight. Would you
care to buttress your argument with anything else? Based
on this alone, you are merely speculating.
A note on autopsy reports -- there is an immediate cause
of death, and there are contributing causes of death.
I've seen enough autopsy reports that said "respiratory
failure" as immediate cause of death with "metastatic
renal cell ca" or whatever as underlying cause of death.
Autopsy reports are pretty complete. There is room to
put "suspected steroid abuse" as contributing factor, if
the pathologist is given cause to examine that based on
clinical information provided before the post-mortem is
performed.
What it really comes down to is that there are many
details that need to be examined, and things are not
always so simple as "this causes that, always." You
seem to be clearly overstepping bounds of reasonable
assumption, unless you know something that is being
kept from all the rest of us who have nothing to do
with this particular instance. I don't know how many
times you need to be told this -- maybe a dozen more?
--
Greg Whitman "I found it hilarious. I almost hit
gr...@grmpng.pbz a pedestrian." -- some lady on the radio
Buttsbnny
>side effect of steroid use, especially in high dosages, is increased
>platelet
>aggregation, that is increased tendency of the blood to form clots.
>
>Don't take my word for it though. Read this journal entry which I have
>already sited in a previous post:
>
>Ferenchick G, et al. "Androgenic/anabolic steroid use and platelet
>aggregation.
>A pilot study in weightlifters." Amer J Med Sci, 1992;303:78-82
>
>
>Lenny
>
>
In this particular case it is not really the issue since the blood clot was not
cause in this particular fashion. It is not my business to pass on the exact
details since that is not the familys wish - but in defense of Curtis (which I
can not believe I am having to defend a good person to some insensitive jerk
hinding behind his keyboard) it was not steroid use that caused the clot but
something else.
Leonard Ferguson
> What it really comes down to is that there are many
> details that need to be examined, and things are not
> always so simple as "this causes that, always." You
> seem to be clearly overstepping bounds of reasonable
> assumption, unless you know something that is being
> kept from all the rest of us who have nothing to do
> with this particular instance. I don't know how many
> times you need to be told this -- maybe a dozen more?
I have yet to make a "this causes that, always" argument
and have pretty much said what I have to say. Have fun
shooting up, guys...
Lenny
FleaFlea72
>You didn't know the guy. You don't know what drugs he may have been
>taking. And most important, you've not seen any autopsy report. Yet
>you're the first on here to declare that his death was due to steroid
>abuse. What an ass.
If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
TOTALLY unhealthy. Even if he did die of "natural" causes (thats the only
natural thing curtis' body has seen in year!), then his time
will most likely be soon anyway.
FleaFlea72
>not
>cause in this particular fashion. It is not my business to pass on the
>exact
>details since that is not the familys wish - but in defense of Curtis (which
>I
>can not believe I am having to defend a good person to some insensitive jerk
>hinding behind his keyboard) it was not steroid use that caused the clot but
>something else.
Yeah, I'll tell everyone. I dont give a shit.
It was probably synthol. That guy used
everything under the sun. He signed his
own fate. Nice guy? Sure. Sane and reasonable? Obviously not.
And YOU, buttsbnny, are just being in denial.
You are a HEAVY steroid user and many people have told me how manly and ugly
you look in person. Like Curtis, you probably do not give a damn about your
health, so you use everything you can afford to either: look like a
cross-hybrid with another gender (your case), or, to look like a friggin
chemical freak (like Curtis).
Boy, wait till the media gets ahold of this one. They are gonna piss on his
grave. If you think I have no mercy, wait until you see what they do.
FleaFlea72
>Date: Fri, Sep 4, 1998 10:23 EDT
>Message-id: <6sot58$nft$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>
>
>Buttsbnny (butt...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Curtis died from a blood clot due to a vein that had ruptured in his leg.
>: Something that was entirely unrelated to steroid use.
>
> Blod clots can happen to anyone. I had a friend who had one
>in her leg - the only warning sign was her leg was swollen. If she
>had not gone to the hospital that night, she would have died by the next
>morning.
>
>
>
But how can you possibly ignore the fact
that Curtis used a TON of all kinds of drugs?
Look at him! He is a drug FREAK. He makes
dorian yates look natural. I guaran-damn-tee
that autopsy is gonna show that his body was wrecked so bad from drug abuse,
that he would've died soon anyway (if he did die of "natural" causes). Good
ridance.
FleaFlea72
>steroids. Even if he did die from steroids, people have been using and
>abusing anabolic steroids for over 30 years with no deaths. Compare that
>to Vit A, VitD, Potassium supplements etc. You are a dick.
>
>
And so are you. You must realize that NO ONE has ever used as much gear as
Curtis has. Time will tell, and my money is that he
died of drug-related caues.
TIM CECIL
<199809041703...@ladder01.news.aol.com
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ (USA)
In a previous article, alway...@my-dejanews.com () says:
>In article <01bdd82b$fca66ac0$7e9d...@greenwd.msfc.nasa.gov>,
> "William Greene" <william...@msfc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
>> >
>> > My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
>> > anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
>> > Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most
>> cases
>> > would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
>> > from steroid use many years prior.
>>
>> I know you guys are enjoying screaming at old Lenny here, but his point
>> here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
>> died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
>> came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
>> other an accident).
>
>So I guess that if someone was squashed by a 500# pallet of ' testerona
>ethnate' in a Mexican warehouse, the death cert. would not list steroids as
>COD. ;^)
Sorry, no CODs. Credit cards only.
--
Tim Cecil
"You have used a whole vocabulary when a few vocabules would have
sufficed." - Jason "Deepsquatter" Burnell
TIM CECIL
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ (USA)
Tell us, Mr. Anonymous, just what drugs was he using? We can only
assume that you were there when he took them.
Buttsbnny
>that Curtis used a TON of all kinds of drugs?
>Look at him! He is a drug FREAK. He makes
>dorian yates look natural. I guaran-damn-tee
>that autopsy is gonna show that his body was wrecked so bad from drug abuse,
>ridance.
>
>
Give it up Josh. Your e-mail to Oliver asking what Curtis' 'stack' was just
proves how inappropraite and mentally screwed up you are. Go back on the meds
and get a job then maybe you will eventually be able to learn how to have
empathy for people. Until you learn to take pride in yourself and have some
self respect you will always be the loser you are today.
Of coarse YOU do not care that a good person is dead. But his friends do.
Your posts are inappropriate and from this point - I am just going to deleate
them when I see your name on the post without reading - you have nothing of
any import to add to the group so why should I bother.
Greg Whitman
Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
>Greg Whitman wrote:
>
>> What it really comes down to is that there are many
>> details that need to be examined, and things are not
>> always so simple as "this causes that, always." You
>> seem to be clearly overstepping bounds of reasonable
>> assumption, unless you know something that is being
>> kept from all the rest of us who have nothing to do
>> with this particular instance. I don't know how many
>> times you need to be told this -- maybe a dozen more?
>
>I have yet to make a "this causes that, always" argument
"anabolic steroids are thrombogenic" in almost as many words
>and have pretty much said what I have to say.
Good.
> Have fun
>shooting up, guys...
I see your presumption knows no bounds.
>Lenny
Tim Fogarty
> But how can you possibly ignore the fact
> that Curtis used a TON of all kinds of drugs?
> Look at him! He is a drug FREAK. He makes
> dorian yates look natural. I guaran-damn-tee
> that autopsy is gonna show that his body was
> wrecked so bad from drug abuse,
The key words here are "all kinds of drugs".
These include insulin, diuretics, stimulants,
and a whole lot more. The key word here is
also "abuse".
Whether the abuse of these drugs caused his
death or not, certain people here want to
use him as an example of why any use of
steroids is wrong. This is faulty logic.
While any drug can be abused, steroids can
be used safely by adults. Science does
not support the claims made by some that
reasonable bodybuilding doses can cause
all sorts of medical problems.
--
Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com)
http://musclememory.com/fogarty
Bill Roberts
> I also see this kind of question come up here; why is it that some
> bb-ers seem weak for their size, compared to, for example, myself who,
> while not a geek, is smaller, relatively, and probably less
> experienced (long-term training-wise) than typical bb-ers. And I am
> certainly less 'Vitamin-advantaged' than them.
Well what's your excuse for that?
> Yet the bb-ers I know and see in various gyms do a fair amount less
> (accounting for bodyweight and relative limb lengths) while training
> in virtually every lift than I do? Can thier other aspects be that
> less 'trained' than mine? Like their CNS's or support structures like
> ligs/tends etc.?
Consider the effect of variation in the position of the insertion
of the muscle relative to the joint, and think of leverage and
the speed vs. force compromise.
Would a boxer want to have the insertions of his pecs close to the
shoulder joint, or far from it? Which would a powerlifter want?
I don't have data but my understanding is that people vary widely
in this respect.
Also another difference may be training style. If I am only going
to be doing two sets of an exercise, I will be using considerably
more weight for say 7 reps each set than if I am planning to do
five sets of 7. Or on my last exercise for a bodypart, I may be
getting only 5 reps with a weight I'd be getting 8 or 9 reps with
if it were my first exercise. Thus you may be comparing your more
"intense" style with their less "intense" style (which may be highly
effective for them, perhaps more effective for them than your style
would be) and the weight comparison becomes a little unfair. That is
however probably a smaller difference than the above.
> I wonder what a good study of his phenomena would show, WRT the
> correlation of muscle size and strength.
Whether scientifically demonstrated or not, I think it is generally
seen that the *same individual* will see a strength increase resulting
from a size increase, at least sooner or later, but it is not the
case that knowledge of the size of muscles of differing individuals
is sufficient information to accurately predict their relative
(or absolute) perfomances in maximal generation of force from those
muscles.
-- Bill
Greg Whitman
>>Undoubtedly? And if he died in a car crash will you say it was due to
>>steroid induced roid rage? Love some people assumptions.
>
>What are you trying to say, Will? That
>Curtis DIDNT die of drug abuse? Give me
>a break. Number one, dont insult our intelligence. Number two, dont be so
>defensive when one wants to debate the cause
>of death of a steroid abusing bodybuilder. Not
>all of it is meant to do damage. Stop being
>so sensitive to meare speculation.
One word, anonymous-aol-person-who-appears-only-for-this-subject:
context.
Bil & Tag
Luke <o m n i c o m @ b i n a r y . n e t> wrote:
>
> In a similar vein, when and how did O.D. Williams die?
As I remember, it was several years ago (3? 4? 5?) and he simply collapsed
in a parking lot with a coronary. I don't know any details. Perhaps
someone else knows more.
_____________________________________
"Bil & Tag"
a.k.a. William and Tracey Greene
Greg Whitman
>Bluesky692 (blues...@aol.com) wrote:
>
>> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
>> doing some long term chronic damage.
>
>evidence please
>
>> Roids help you get big. They also help shorten your lifespan.
>
>there is no scientific evidence to support your claim
I saw one abstract title about steroids shortening the lifespan
of mice. We know what can be concluded from this, of course:
if you want to shorten the lifespan of your mice, give them
steroids.
Will Brink
fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72) wrote:
> >Undoubtedly? And if he died in a car crash will you say it was due to
> >steroid induced roid rage? Love some people assumptions.
>
> What are you trying to say, Will?
You dont read so well or somthing? I think I was clear enough.
> That
> Curtis DIDNT die of drug abuse?
I said neither because I dont know, and neither do you.
> Give me
> a break.
Happy to. Who are you ?
>Number one, dont insult our intelligence.
#1: go screw yourself.
> Number two, dont be so
> defensive when one wants to debate the cause
> of death of a steroid abusing bodybuilder.
Debating and using words such as "Undoubtedly" are two very different
things and i would think you were "intelligent" enough to know that. I am
deffensive when a person who does not have a clue about this guy makes
idiot statements that are not left open for debate but give more false
information to be passed around in the rumor mill.
> Not
> all of it is meant to do damage.
I dont even know what the hell that means. making stuff up causes damage
to him and his familly. For all I know he died from taking 100 Anadrol and
his head exploded, but that is not the point.
>Stop being
> so sensitive to meare speculation.
Look up the word speculation please. This person was not "speculating" but
stating as fact that he "undoubtedly" died of steroid use which is
bullshit. Ity might have been a factor and it might not have. If it was,
its his business and he sure paid the price. If not a factor, than its sad
when dick heads with no life have to come out of the wood work and
"speculate" as to how the poor guy died.
--
-Will Brink, www.brinkzone.com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin.
Bluesky692
knew him - was he clean?
If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
doing some long term chronic damage. Roids help you get big. They also help
shorten your lifespan. I'm sure this Curtis dude was a loving family man and
an overall great guy. But anyone who gets addicted to any drug still has a big
problem. Sometimes you get lucky and can cure the habit. Other times you
don't. If y'all were a friend of Curtis you should have helped get off the
juice. Now is not the time to be in denial.
Buttsbnny
>knew him - was he clean?
That is really no ones business. And lets get something clear - the real
question we should be asking is ' this person has died - how appropriate is it
to speculate on what they did or did not do when you did not know him'
This is not about 'denial' or 'drug use; or anying other than a good person has
passed away. To dilute the issue and try to manipulate it to support your
views for or against steroids is inappropriate and incensitive.
Bob Mann
alway...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<6spjrq$qee$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>An observation/question.
>
>What I never understood well was the relationship between muscle size and
>strength. It seems that a BB of Curtis' size, would have been doing
>exercises leading to strength to a goodly degree. Yet, for all his
muscles,
>he performed dismally in the WSM competition, relative to those that seemed
>smaller by comparison. I know the CNS component may be better in
>powerlifters, on average, than bb-ers, but look at the 1997 winner; same
>musculature (maybe less) than Curtis, yet he killed everyone else, even in
>the deadlift!!
>
I was really hoping to see him give it another try.
--
Bob Mann ICQ 9259463
Web Page http://www.escape.ca/~rmann
FleaFlea72
>Date: Fri, Sep 4, 1998 18:21 EDT
>Message-id: <199809042221...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>Your posts are inappropriate and from this point - I am just going to deleate
>them when I see your name on the post without reading - you have nothing of
>any import to add to the group
Nothing important to add, eh? You say
the vein in his leg spontaneously ruptured,
right? Venous bleeding is serious. However,
one has more time to live versus arterial bleeding. A ruptured leg vein would
show
signs right away: Distention; severe pain
at sight; ecchymosis at sight, followed by
hypotension, dizzynesss, pallor, and, finally,
shock. Even in the shock stage, one's life
is salvagable. This being, emergency
surgical ligation of the ruptured vein, followed
by repair or graft. A young white male in
good health...disease-free, no diabetes, no
CVD, no drug abuse, etc...should and WOULD be able to withstand a shock state
followed by emergency surgical intervention.
Unless, of course, this acute rupture occured
on a desert island. Death would be immenient.
Predicably, other factors were involved. You are correct: a young and
promising life (of suicide-like drug abuse) ended
tragically and painfully. Given the nature
of the cause of death, had it been my brother
or friend, I would not be content with this final diagnosis that you say
occured.
Perhaps there is a status post diagnosis which
is the TRUE cause of death. An autopsy,
focusing on his cardiovascular health, will confirm what caused the blood clot.
You say two things: One, you said that
he had a congenital blood clotting problem.
Two, you said he congential venous rupture
condition. Which is it? Here's the truth (something you are unfamiliar with):
a congenital blood clotting problem occurs with
SCA (sickle cell anemia); a congenital disease
inherent to BLACK americans.
And I can think of NO "congenital venous
rupture" phenomenons. Steroid induced
platelet aggregation is a more likely cause
of a venous blood clot with subsequent
rupture, along with the possibility of
amphetamine overdose. And this condition is NOT congenital.
Obviously you are in denial. As I have illustrated above, his death HAS to be
caused
by MULTIPLE drug abuse. In any other case, he would have lived (if vein
rupture was
really the cause of death).
Even without this medical jargon, all one has
to do is take a look at the physique of Curtis
Leffler. It REEKS of drug abuse. It is disgusting, and, frankly, he buried
his own grave.
FleaFlea72
>The key words here are "all kinds of drugs".
>These include insulin, diuretics, stimulants,
>and a whole lot more. The key word here is
>also "abuse".
Exactly. And thats what he died of. Not this
"congenital" BS.
>
>Whether the abuse of these drugs caused his
>death or not,
It is, trust me.
> certain people here want to
>use him as an example of why any use of
>steroids is wrong. This is faulty logic.
The mainstream media will probably follow
this logic, but it certainly isnt mine. My point
is that he died of a drug-related death; not
of natural causes. I am debating all these people who say his death was
congenital (which it wasnt). I am proving my point, and
they obviously are in denial.
>While any drug can be abused, steroids can
>be used safely by adults. Science does
>not support the claims made by some that
>reasonable bodybuilding doses can cause
>all sorts of medical problems.
I think you got the wrong impression, Tim.
I know what you are saying is true. But
as I said before, my point is that Curtis used
WAY more than what can be used safely
by adults. And that is what killed him. There
is nothing "reasonable" about his drug stack.
FleaFlea72
>exact details since that is not the familys wish
Ha! No wonder they do not want anyone
to know the exact details! They do not want
anyone to know that he died from abusing
drugs like some crazed wacko with reverse anorexia. But, the autopsy, which is
public
record, will PROVE that his body is totally
wrecked and he woudl have died soon anyway. I will obtain a copy of it and
post
the results here on MFW.
Like you, his family are probably in denial. I dont blame them. How PROUD
they must
be that their son KILLED himself from abusing
every bodybuilding drug under the sun. Look at him for christs sake! Not
exactly the poster of health.
You are just showing your ignorance, Buttsbnny, by thinking you can pull the
wool over everyones eyes. Who the hell do you think you are to LIE like that
to everyone? And you call yourself a "good honest person". MY ASS!!!
FleaFlea72
>assume that you were there when he took them.
>--
I have no idea WHAT he took, but I do
know how MUCH he took: A LOT. Look
at his pictures. If you cannot distinguish
this, then you are obviously are lower-intelligence. Be gone.
FleaFlea72
>steroid induced roid rage? Love some people assumptions.
What are you trying to say, Will? That
Curtis DIDNT die of drug abuse? Give me
a break. Number one, dont insult our intelligence. Number two, dont be so
defensive when one wants to debate the cause
of death of a steroid abusing bodybuilder. Not
all of it is meant to do damage. Stop being
FleaFlea72
This statement PROVES that you KNOW
he abused the shit out of bbing drugs.
You are DEFINATELY in denial. In fact,
your drug dealing husband, Oliver Starr,
probably sold juice to him. So, you and
him know what he took, more than likely.
And lets get something clear - the real
>question we should be asking is ' this person has died - how appropriate is
>it
>to speculate on what they did or did not do when you did not know him'
I could care less! How appropriate is it
for you to speculate that you can insult
our intelligence by LYING to us and trying
to pull a fast one on us? Go to hell!
Tim Fogarty
> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
> doing some long term chronic damage.
evidence please
> Roids help you get big. They also help shorten your lifespan.
there is no scientific evidence to support your claim
--
o m n i c o m i n a r y . n e t
wrote:
>
>When exactly did Larry Pacifico die?
>
In a similar vein, when and how did O.D. Williams die?
Luke
"I like the President's legal definition of sex.
For example, my wife accused me of sleeping around. When
I told her that all the lady was doing was giving me a
BJ and I shot my wad on her dress. She understood completely."
Bob Mann
o m n i c o m @ b i n a r y . n e t (Luke) wrote in message
<35f09e86.172586946@news>...
>On Fri, 04 Sep 1998 17:28:09 GMT, jbur...@jps.net (Deepsquatter)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>When exactly did Larry Pacifico die?
>>
>In a similar vein, when and how did O.D. Williams die?
>Luke
>
FleaFlea72
>Date: Fri, Sep 4, 1998 22:51 EDT
>Message-id: <fogartyE...@netcom.com>
>
>Bluesky692 (blues...@aol.com) wrote:
>
>> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were
>certainly
>> doing some long term chronic damage.
>
>evidence please
I am no anti-steroid pundit, but whatever
Curtis was using was WAY overboard. He
redefines the context of what is safe and
what isnt. You understand that, dont you Tim?
>> Roids help you get big. They also help shorten your lifespan.
>
>there is no scientific evidence to support your claim
I agree there, but like I said, when it comes
to Curtis' drug stack, the entire premise changes. What he is doing IS
dangerous
and DOES shorten your lifespan. Anyone
who's been in the sport for awhile can look
at pics of Curtis and see this.
C-Way
wrote:
>Bluesky692 (blues...@aol.com) wrote:
>
>> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
>> doing some long term chronic damage.
>
>evidence please
>
>> Roids help you get big. They also help shorten your lifespan.
>
>there is no scientific evidence to support your claim
>
>--
>Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com)
>http://musclememory.com/fogarty
You are so full of shit. do you think that scientists are going to do
studies giving people high amounts of steroids to see if they die?
You are a total idiot. That's like asking for scientific evidence
that getting shot in the hear can kill you. I doubt it's ever been
scientifically proved in humans, but that doesn't mean it won't kill
you.
Billy Chambless
|> >And who's the one spreading false info about the drugs he was using ?
|> >You didn't know the guy. You don't know what drugs he may have been
|> >taking. And most important, you've not seen any autopsy report. Yet
|> >you're the first on here to declare that his death was due to steroid
|> >abuse. What an ass.
|> If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
|> http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
|> at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
Uh-huh. The pictures prove he was full of steroids, eh?
Damn, you need to pass this info on to the IOC so the quit wasting time
with piss tests! They can just switch to visual exams for steroid abuse!
"Shit, George, lookit the biceps on that guy! Obviously fulla test and
nandrolone! Let's ban him for life!"
|> TOTALLY unhealthy. Even if he did die of "natural" causes (thats the only
|> natural thing curtis' body has seen in year!), then his time
|> will most likely be soon anyway.
Huh? I'm having a hard time understanding that last sentence. "His time
will most likely be soon"? His time to what? Rise from the grave and
kick your skinny ass for talkin' ignorant shit about him?
--
* "And there _is_ a real world. In fact, some of you
* are in it right now." -- Gene Spafford
Billy Chambless
|> In a previous article, fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72) says:
|> >If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
|> >http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
|> >at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
|> >TOTALLY unhealthy. Even if he did die of "natural" causes (thats the only
|> >natural thing curtis' body has seen in year!), then his time
|> >will most likely be soon anyway.
|> Tell us, Mr. Anonymous, just what drugs was he using? We can only
|> assume that you were there when he took them.
No, he can just tell from looking at the pictures.
Never underestimate the cognitive abilities of an anonymous AOLoser.
Buttsbnny
>Debating and using words such as "Undoubtedly" are two very different
>things and i would think you were "intelligent" enough to know that. I am
>deffensive when a person who does not have a clue about this guy makes
>idiot statements that are not left open for debate but give more false
>information to be passed around in the rumor mill.
>
>> all of it is meant to do damage.
>
>to him and his familly. For all I know he died from taking 100 Anadrol and
>his head exploded, but that is not the point.
>
>> so sensitive to meare speculation.
>
>stating as fact that he "undoubtedly" died of steroid use which is
>bullshit. Ity might have been a factor and it might not have. If it was,
>its his business and he sure paid the price. If not a factor, than its sad
>when dick heads with no life have to come out of the wood work and
>"speculate" as to how the poor guy died.
>
>--
>-Will Brink, www.brinkzone.com
>
>
Will-
BIG kiss in your direction. Thanks for having class.
Steph
Robert Schuh
Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> Robert Schuh wrote:
>
> > MOTHERFUCKER LEONARD! Can you get ANY facts straight? HE is/was not a
> > professional bodybuilder.
>
> Shut up the hell up, that's SO far beside the point. Professional or not,
> his death was causally related to steroid use. Whether he was hereditarily
>
> prone to cardiovascular failure (i.e. naturally low HDL) I don't know. But
>
> certainly if he was, then it's a shame he either ignored or wasn't informed
>
> of the extreme risk he was taking. Although, the information is readily
> available, so with all due respect I'd have to doubt the latter.
You have no idea how he died. You are just listening to the rumor mill. Did you
perform the autopsy yourself? Why do you even care?
>
>
> > Even if he did die from steroids, people have been using and
> > abusing anabolic steroids for over 30 years with no deaths.
>
> WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
> Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson
If you are talking about the John Ziegler who was the grandfather of steroids
etc, you are wrong, I have no clue who Steve Vallie is, I guess John Holmes
died from steroid use too? Courson's heart problems were caused by a virus. I
know of no viruses in steroids.
> , or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
Pacifico was no spring chicken.He was in his late 40's, early 50's. I guess no
one that age can die from anything other than steroids? Larry took aspirin too.
Maybe it was the aspirin?
>
>
> > You are a dick.
> >
>
> And you are ignorant.
If that is not the fucking pot calling the kettle black! I have forgotton more
on this issue than you will ever know in a lifetime!
--
Robert Schuh
"There can be only one!"
Trane, Jimi, Bird and Jaco were gods!!
Donate a kidney, save a life. Ask me about it!
Robert Schuh
Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> Buttsbnny wrote:
>
> > >
> > >WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
> > >Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson, or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
> > >
> > >> You are a dick.
> > >>
> > >
> > >And you are ignorant.
> > >
> >
> > I am afraid it is you who are ignorant Leonard. No where in the corner's
> > report of these men will is specifically say "died of steroid use"
>
> My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
> anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
> Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most cases
> would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
> from steroid use many years prior.
You have proof that your brother died from steroids? Maybe he was just a homo
like Lyle and was covering up for it? It is time for you to stop sticking your
nose in other's business. You are a psychotic fuck. Why not go after Ephedrine?
13 people have died from it this year alone! Your priorities are all fucked up!
What is the story with the bogus e mail address too, you pussy?
Robert Schuh
William Greene wrote:
> Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
> >
> > My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
> > anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
> > Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most
> cases
> > would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
> > from steroid use many years prior.
>
> I know you guys are enjoying screaming at old Lenny here, but his point
> here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
> died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
> came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
> other an accident).
Bil,
It doesn't matter. Lenny is pulling this shit out of his ass. He has no more
proof to what killed Curtis than I have proof of you giving a rim job to Bill
Phillips! :-)
Robert Schuh
Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> Grendelcdr wrote:
>
> > Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> > >WHAT? Wow, you aren't looking to hard. Do the names John Ziegler, Steve
> > >Vallie, (yes) Steve Courson, or Larry Pacifico ring a bell for you?
> >
> > Excuse me, but I believe that Mr. Pacifico will be very surprised to find out
> > that he is dead.
> >
> > Eric Midkiff
>
> No he isn't dead, but he is an example of a well known athlete who
> has suffered cardiovascular damage from steroid use.
You have no more proof of this than I do that you rape children, but seeing your
obssesion with this topic, I could see you slipping an infant your 2" wonder! It is
time for you to stop worrying what consenting adults want to do or put into their
bodies. How many people die in car wrecks fuck boy? That is much more important
than steroids. I guess we should ban all driving?
rob
>Curtis died of natural causes related to a problem that runs in his family
>(cardiac related).
>
>NOT STEROIDS YOU DUMB ASS CUNT!!!
Well said Oliver.
>If you'd like to send a donation or a condolence card, please send it to:
>
>Curtis Leffler Junior
>PO Box 700357
>Kapolei, HI 96709
>
>Oliver
Will do.
Would you e-mail me? The comp that had your number on it took a giant dump
so I lost everything.
Stupid things.
Dja see my post about Stefanies race? It was too cool! Guys I am still
getting the hang of Outlook Express and its anoying enough to make me load
free agent or Netscape. How do you expand threads on this damn program?!
Rob
Robert Schuh
Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> bk...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > I don't know the details, but this is confirmed.
> >
> > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> > http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
>
> Folks, death due to blood clotting is directly attributable to
> steroid overuse, or abuse. It is well documented that steroids
> cause a severe depression of HDL cholesterol, which is the "good"
> cholesterol fraction that prevents clots and heart attacks by
> "scrubbing" your arteries clean.
>
> I am sorry to those who knew this man personally, but let's not
> spread false information about the drugs he was using.
>
> Lenny
You are the one spreading false information. Blood clots are not caused by
steroids. Give it up Leonard or I am going to dig your brother up and ass
fuck him until he gives up the truth! AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Robert Schuh
Leonard Ferguson wrote:
> Greg Whitman wrote:
>
> > What it really comes down to is that there are many
> > details that need to be examined, and things are not
> > always so simple as "this causes that, always." You
> > seem to be clearly overstepping bounds of reasonable
> > assumption, unless you know something that is being
> > kept from all the rest of us who have nothing to do
> > with this particular instance. I don't know how many
> > times you need to be told this -- maybe a dozen more?
>
> I have yet to make a "this causes that, always" argument
> and have pretty much said what I have to say. Have fun
> shooting up, guys...
>
> Lenny
Why not snuggle up with your dead gay brother?
Buttsbnny
Rob-
tell her congrats from us!!! :)
Robert Schuh
Bluesky692 wrote:
> I don't know the dude that died but let's ask this question to those that
> knew him - was he clean?
>
> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
> doing some long term chronic damage.
Oh yeah, what proof do you have of that? You are talking out of your ass AOL boy!
> Roids help you get big. They also help
> shorten your lifespan.
Proof??
> I'm sure this Curtis dude was a loving family man and
> an overall great guy. But anyone who gets addicted to any drug still has a big
> problem.
WHo said he was addicted to anything? I have not read that he had an alocohol.
nicotine or narcotic habit, have you? IS there a reason why you HAVE to lie?
> Sometimes you get lucky and can cure the habit. Other times you
> don't. If y'all were a friend of Curtis you should have helped get off the
> juice. Now is not the time to be in denial.
Why, steroids are a lot safer than alcohol and cigarettes. Do pester everyone you
now who smokes or drinks to stop? How people who drive cars? Hundreds of thousand
of people die every year in car wrecks. I guess we need to stop driving too? Come
to think of it, I need my car, maybe I am addicted to my car?
Listen AOL pussy, either use your real name or shut the fuck up. If you can't back
your words up with your name, then they are of no use to anyone.
Robert Schuh
C-Way wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998 02:51:30 GMT, fog...@netcom.com (Tim Fogarty)
> wrote:
>
> >Bluesky692 (blues...@aol.com) wrote:
> >
> >> If he was doing roids and if they didn't kill him , then they were certainly
> >> doing some long term chronic damage.
> >
> >evidence please
> >
> >> Roids help you get big. They also help shorten your lifespan.
> >
> >there is no scientific evidence to support your claim
> >
> >--
> >Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com)
> >http://musclememory.com/fogarty
> You are so full of shit. do you think that scientists are going to do
> studies giving people high amounts of steroids to see if they die?
> You are a total idiot. That's like asking for scientific evidence
> that getting shot in the hear can kill you. I doubt it's ever been
> scientifically proved in humans, but that doesn't mean it won't kill
> you.
We don't need scientific studies, anectodal evidence would be enough, but there is
none. You know NOTHING about steroids, so why do you keep posting about them? Why
are you so fucking angry with people who use steroids? Why do YOU care what adults
put into their bodies? Are you some kind of fundamentalist freak? If so, you should
be much more up in arms regarding tobacco and alcohol, not steroids. Get a clue,
get a life and get a name you fucking coward! More people die every year from
aspirin than they do steroids for Christ's sake!
FleaFlea72
>certainly
>> doing some long term chronic damage.
>
>boy!
What Curtis was doing would DEFINATELY
constitute abuse. There is a difference between what is safe, and what isnt.
>> Roids help you get big. They also help
>> shorten your lifespan.
>
>Proof??
Curtis wasnt exactly the poster of health.
>But anyone who gets addicted to any drug still has a big
>> problem.
>
>WHo said he was addicted to anything? I have not read that he had an
>alocohol.
>nicotine or narcotic habit, have you?
Most bbers out in california are addicted
to either nubain, coke, or something else.
It wouldnt suprise me at all if Curtis was
involved in something like that, too.
As for reading about it, that is a stupid
statement. Does FLEX mag print that
Flex Wheeler has an ongoing rec. drug
habit when he parties every night of the
week? No.
>Why, steroids are a lot safer than alcohol and cigarettes
At Curtis' dose, I doubt this and i'm sure
you agree.
>Do pester everyone you
>now who smokes or drinks to stop? How people who drive cars?
Not everyone smokes 10000 cigarettes or
drinks 10 cases of beer a night, which would
be the health-equivalent of what Curtis
was doing.
FleaFlea72
>there is
>none. You know NOTHING about steroids, so why do you keep posting about them?
>Why
>are you so fucking angry with people who use steroids? Why do YOU care what
>adults
>put into their bodies? Are you some kind of fundamentalist freak? If so, you
>should
>be much more up in arms regarding tobacco and alcohol, not steroids. Get a
>clue,
>get a life and get a name you fucking coward! More people die every year from
>aspirin than they do steroids for Christ's sake!
>
>--
>Robert Schuh
Your point being? Being a fundamentalist
or any of that alterior motive crap has nothing
to do with it. The average guy who uses
steroids cannot even compare with what
Curtis was using and YOU KNOW IT.
FleaFlea72
>tell her congrats from us!!! :)
Ha! One congrat from an illegal drug
dealer in LA, and one congrat from a
nubain addict.
FleaFlea72
>than steroids. I guess we should ban all driving?
Yes we should, if that driver is going
150 mph on the freeway while closing
his eyes, which is equivalent to what Curtis
was doing with his medicine chest.
FleaFlea72
>steroids. Give it up Leonard or I am going to dig your brother up and ass
>fuck him until he gives up the truth! AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>--
>Robert Schuh
No, but blood clots can happen when you
stack steroids with every other drug under
the sun like Curtis did.
FleaFlea72
>to him and his familly
And i'm supposed to care? I, like everyone
else in the media, is interested in his drug
habits.
Bil & Tag
Billy Chambless <bi...@cast.msstate.edu> wrote:
(FleaFlea72) writes:
>
> |> If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
> |> http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
> |> at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
>
> Uh-huh. The pictures prove he was full of steroids, eh?
> Damn, you need to pass this info on to the IOC so the quit wasting time
> with piss tests! They can just switch to visual exams for steroid abuse!
This is getting stupid.
Please don't start claiming that Mr. Lefler was natural.
_____________________________________
"Bil & Tag"
a.k.a. William and Tracey Greene
Frederik Dannemare
<199809052159...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
if fleaflea72 qualifies for IOM, I'd like to nominate him.
--
Frederik Dannemare, Denmark
ICQ#: 11118303
http://home6.inet.tele.dk/fdanne/
'do what works and let science
figure out why it works later.' - Steve Kidwell
Robert Schuh
Buttplug by his real name at the end of this post. This will not happen again!
:-)
Robert Schuh wrote:
> William Greene wrote:
>
> > Leonard Ferguson <lenny@san_quentin.gov> wrote:
> > >
> > > My older brother died from complications due to steroid use. Does itsay
> > > anywhere in his coroner's report "died of steroid use"? No. Why?
> > > Because steroids are not usually tested for in an autopsy, and in most
> > cases
> > > would not be detected anyway since heart and artery damage can be caused
> > > from steroid use many years prior.
> >
> > I know you guys are enjoying screaming at old Lenny here, but his point
> > here regarding the autopsy report is valid. If a report read that someone
> > died from a sharp blow to the head it doesn't distinguish whether the blow
> > came from a mugger or from a falling object (in one case murder, in the
> > other an accident).
>
> Bil,
> It doesn't matter. Lenny is pulling this shit out of his ass. He has no more
> proof to what killed Curtis than I have proof of you giving a rim job to Bill
> Phillips! :-)
>
Bill Roberts
> FleaFlea72 <fleaf...@aol.com> skrev i artiklen
> > >How many people die in car wrecks fuck boy? That is much more
> > >important than steroids. I guess we should ban all driving?
> >
> > Yes we should, if that driver is going
> > 150 mph on the freeway while closing
> > his eyes, which is equivalent to what Curtis
> > was doing with his medicine chest.
> if fleaflea72 qualifies for IOM, I'd like to nominate him.
Well, if you are asking if he qualifies based on this, well, I don't
see where he is doing anything but expressing the opinion that
Curtis Leffler used an amount of drugs which is beyond reason so
far as health is concerned. For all I know that may be correct; one
would think so from his picture (which is rather Yates-ish.)
This is not presenting misinformation or being an idiot in any
way so far as I can tell. One may consider it in poor taste
however, given that the man has just died, and indeed AOM was once
bestowed for quite a similar thing.
-- Bill
rob
FleaFlea72 wrote in message
<199809052157...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
WTF!?
No one in my household uses anything. Hell I still have a gram of pot
sitting on my moniter from trying to use it for the side iffects of meds
over 2 months ago. Didnt do shit BTW. Nimrod.
As for Oliver and "his" Steph, uh I dont thinks so. You must be an idiot to
spout shit about people you dont even know. Troll.
Another anonymous asshole.
Rob
FleaFlea72
> (FleaFlea72) writes:
>>
>> |> If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
>> |> http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
>> |> at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
>>
>> Uh-huh. The pictures prove he was full of steroids, eh?
>> Damn, you need to pass this info on to the IOC so the quit wasting time
>> with piss tests! They can just switch to visual exams for steroid abuse!
>
>This is getting stupid.
>Please don't start claiming that Mr. Lefler was natural.
>
>Billy Chambless <bi...@cast.msstate.edu> wrote:
> (FleaFlea72) writes:
>>
>> |> If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
>> |> http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
>> |> at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
>>
>> Uh-huh. The pictures prove he was full of steroids, eh?
>> Damn, you need to pass this info on to the IOC so the quit wasting time
>> with piss tests! They can just switch to visual exams for steroid abuse!
>
>This is getting stupid.
>Please don't start claiming that Mr. Lefler was natural.
>
Yeah no kidding. If one cannot tell if a person is abusing steroids by simply
looking
at their condition, then are NOT a real bber.
KNELLER
>aspirin than they do steroids for Christ's sake!
*MANY* more people use aspirin in a single
day than use steroids in an entire year, Rob.
I am not sticking up for aspirin, steroids or
anything else...just showing you that you
are truly comparing apples and oranges.
BK
______________________________________________________________
"Remember me from a couple of hours ago?" - Rollergirl from Boogienights
FleaFlea72
>>aspirin than they do steroids for Christ's sake!
>
>*MANY* more people use aspirin in a single
>day than use steroids in an entire year, Rob.
>
>I am not sticking up for aspirin, steroids or
>anything else...just showing you that you
>are truly comparing apples and oranges.
>
>BK
>
>
My point exactly. Thats like saying flying
is safer than driving, but look how many planes there are compared to cars.
The statistics would be alot different if the traits were evened out.
Bob Mann
>
>My point exactly. Thats like saying flying
>is safer than driving, but look how many planes there are compared to cars.
>The statistics would be alot different if the traits were evened out.
Now you've missed the mark.
Even when the playing field is levelled, flying is safer than driving.
It's just that so many go at one time.
The again, if nobody dies from steroid use and one person dies from
aspirin use then it doesn't really matter how many take which does it.
I don't agree that steroids have never lead to a death but it has
never been proven.
There was a death here a month or two ago and they were sure that it
was caused by steroids because it was a kid and they found some plus
there was visual evidence of probable use.
The performed an autopsy, specifically, it seems, to prove a steroid
related death.
As I said this was maybe 2 months ago.
We still haven't heard anything and if it was true it would have been
all over the headlines.
--------------------------------------------
Bob Mann-------http://www.escape.ca/~rmann
ICQ 9259463
Remove the delete to e-mail me directly
Link to the mfw FAQ at
http://www.escape.ca/~rmann/powerlinks.htm
Bob Mann
>
>Yeah no kidding. If one cannot tell if a person is abusing steroids by simply
>looking
>at their condition, then are NOT a real bber.
Is this Steve Kidwell?
O Starr
Get back on the meds psycho-rat-boy. You desperately need a managed care
facility, your mama can't handle anyone as sick as you.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but
they've always worked for me. -- Hunter S. Thompson
O Starr
>No, but blood clots can happen when you
>stack steroids with every other drug under
>the sun
Proof of this, rat-boy? Name one study, one journal, even one listing in the
PDR that would confirm that stacking steroids and ANY OTHER DRUG can CAUSE a
blood clot. Just one, pal.
like Curtis did.
And again, I'd like to see one shred of proof that Curtis stacked anything. I
don't give a flying fuck about yourassumed visual diagnosis. What I'm talking
about here is actual analytical verifiable proof. Until you have it Mr.
Journalism wanna be, shut the fuck up.
better yet, try high dose lithium...
O Starr
>else in the media,
Hey Josh, when except for your pathetic sandwich piece and your article on
synthol which was ripped to shreds in that letter to the editor have you ever
been published?
And from what I understand, because of that letter which basically demonstrated
your journalistic incompetence, no magazine will ever buy a piece from you
again.
Maybe you need to come up with a few real life aliases so that you have a
prayer of getting published.
Or on second thought why don't you do the world a favor and put a gun in your
mouth?
FleaFlea72
>synthol which was ripped to shreds in that letter to the editor have you ever
>been published?
Yes, I have and I am quite talented, IMO. Sure, I made some beginner mistakes,
but I have learned.
>And from what I understand, because of that letter which basically
demonstrated
>your journalistic incompetence, no magazine will ever buy a piece from you
again.
I know you would LOVE to believe that,
since you are so arrogant that you need
to passify your ego every second of the day, but here's the truth: Sort of
true. ANMD wont buy from me (as of right now, anyway), but it has NOTHING to
do with whatever letter you say was written to the editors. You are
misunderstood. Must be the 'bain getting to your synapses.
>Maybe you need to come up with a few real >life aliases so that you have a
prayer of >getting published.
I have no problem getting published. The
fact is, is that I have not written a single peice
since that Duchaine interview. You say you
are pretty smart, and from what I hear, this
may be true. So, why dont you use that brain
of yours and pick a sport you can possibly
excel in. Considering that you have taken
all kinds of bbing drugs, and that you still
look like a pencil neck, perhaps tennis would
be a better choice. What are you going to do?
Live your life through your girlfriends bbing accomplishments? You are worse
than Rico
McClinton.
>Or on second thought why don't you do the >world a favor and put a gun in your
mouth?
That, or I could try to OD on your favorite drug: Nubain. Btw, dont be mad at
me because you are so pathetically small despite the fact that you have used
tons of drugs. EVERYONE tells me how insecure and small
you are. I also believe their allegation that
you look like you have barely lifted weights
in your entire life. The problem with you
is your arrogance. You think you are all great and full of potential, but the
reality
is that you do NOT have what it takes to be a good bber. Too bad you cannot
see
this. The pathetic pic you posted against
Kidwell proved your ignorance. He blew you out of the water and he is all
natural. And when I become a superstar in the world of bbing (one way or the
other), you are going to have to kiss my big fat ass.
We can either argue, which you know I enjoy
doing, or we can get along. Its your call, Ollie.
FleaFlea72
>From: ost...@aol.com (O Starr)
>Date: Sun, Sep 6, 1998 00:16 EDT
>Message-id: <199809060416...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>
>>
>>No, but blood clots can happen when you
>>stack steroids with every other drug under
>>the sun
>
>Proof of this, rat-boy? Name one study, one journal, even one listing in the
>PDR that would confirm that stacking steroids and ANY OTHER DRUG can CAUSE a
>blood clot. Just one, pal.
>
>
First off, are you so stupid to realize that
there will NEVER be a medical study that
demonstrates massive androgen abuse on healthy humans? Second of all, I have
never
ratted anyone out. You must be listening to Dante, BK, or Cornholio
>And again, I'd like to see one shred of proof >that Curtis stacked anything.
Stop injecting 'Bain and open your eyes,
fool. One look at Curtis proves that he was
definately doing some heavy stacking. Why are you so insecure that you cannot
handle the truth about him? I never said he was a bad person; a bad father who
didnt care abotu his family; or anything of the like. I just said
that you are trying to LIE about Curtis' use
to save face.
And since you love to write in letters to the editor, you better sharpen your
pencils, punk, because the mags are gonna tear him to shreds. You know it,
and I know it. What are you gonna do? Engage in a Nubain-induced
crusade to write into the mags and blast them
for daring to say that Curtis wasnt drug free?
Sounds like you need some psychiatric help, Oliver.
> I don't give a flying fuck about yourassumed > visual diagnosis. What I'm
talking
>about here is actual analytical verifiable >proof.
*YOU* are the one with the answers, Oliver.
You know what Curtis was doing. I dont. I can speculate, coz I have that
right to do so. All I ask is that you devulge his stack. Makes
interesting discussion.
>Until you have it Mr. Journalism wanna be, >shut the fuck up.
I am no journalist, nor did I ever pretend
to be. I wrote because I was broke and needed the money. Unlike you, I do not
pretend to be something I'm not. You like
to pretend and call yourself a "contest prep
guru", but in reality, all you are is another
drug addicted, drug dealer from LA. Wise up,
Ollie. Its not a question of "if", anymore. Its a question of "when". Use
some of those brains of yours that I keep hearing about and get out of that
racket before you end up behind bars. It just isnt worth it.
>better yet, try high dose lithium...
You sell that to, eh?
FleaFlea72
>
>Get back on the meds psycho-rat-boy. You desperately need a managed care
>facility, your mama can't handle anyone as sick as you.
>
Is that so? Some friend you are, Oliver.
Obviously Curtis needed a "care facility"
to help him stop his abusive drug habits, yet YOU were probably the one that
sold the damn drugs to him in the first place! It was YOU that pulled the
trigger, Oliver. If it wasnt
for you, he would have never used those drugs that I heard you supplied him
with.
FleaFlea72
>never been proven.
Does it really matter?
>There was a death here a month or two ago and they were sure that it
>was caused by steroids because it was a kid and they found some plus
>there was visual evidence of probable use.
Hundred to one that this kid wasnt using
even NEAR what Curtis was using. Big difference. I predict that most pro's
and wanna-be pros will suffer the same fate as Curtis before ya know it.
Russian-raider
really dead??? I grew up with him!!!! He
was a great guy and yes he did tons
of drugs, I think when he graduated
high school he weighed about 135lbs!
Any info would be helpful!!
Mitch Shywood
Russian-Raider
Billy Chambless wrote:
> In article <6spnnc$l33$1...@news.asu.edu>, gro...@aztec.asu.edu (TIM CECIL) writes:
>
> |> In a previous article, fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72) says:
>
> |> >If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
> |> >http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
> |> >at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
> |> >TOTALLY unhealthy. Even if he did die of "natural" causes (thats the only
> |> >natural thing curtis' body has seen in year!), then his time
> |> >will most likely be soon anyway.
>
> |> Tell us, Mr. Anonymous, just what drugs was he using? We can only
> |> assume that you were there when he took them.
>
> No, he can just tell from looking at the pictures.
>
> Never underestimate the cognitive abilities of an anonymous AOLoser.
> --
> * "And there _is_ a real world. In fact, some of you
> * are in it right now." -- Gene Spafford
Paul Gonzalez
> Btw, dont be mad at me because you are so pathetically small despite
> the fact that you have used tons of drugs. EVERYONE tells me how
> insecure and small you are. I also believe their allegation that
> you look like you have barely lifted weights in your entire life.
> The problem with you is your arrogance. You think you are all great
> and full of potential, but the reality is that you do NOT have what it
> takes to be a good bber. Too bad you cannot see this. The pathetic
> pic you posted against Kidwell proved your ignorance. He blew you out
> of the water and he is all natural. And when I become a superstar in
> the world of bbing (one way or the other), you are going to have to
> kiss my big fat ass.
Looks like Josh is definitely back "in da house" in his classic form.
It's been too long.
--
PN Gonzalez
Frederik Dannemare
<35F1E6FA...@grove.ufl.edu>...
> Frederik Dannemare wrote:
> > FleaFlea72 <fleaf...@aol.com> skrev i artiklen
>
> > > >How many people die in car wrecks fuck boy? That is much more
> > > >important than steroids. I guess we should ban all driving?
> > >
> > > Yes we should, if that driver is going
> > > 150 mph on the freeway while closing
> > > his eyes, which is equivalent to what Curtis
> > > was doing with his medicine chest.
>
> > if fleaflea72 qualifies for IOM, I'd like to nominate him.
>
> Well, if you are asking if he qualifies based on this, well, I don't
> see where he is doing anything but expressing the opinion that
> Curtis Leffler used an amount of drugs which is beyond reason so
> far as health is concerned. For all I know that may be correct; one
> would think so from his picture (which is rather Yates-ish.)
not only the above, but most of his posts in this thread. His attitude
towards this whole Curtis thing is unheard of. But I guess you're right
that the AOM is better. He sure as hell gets my vote.
> This is not presenting misinformation or being an idiot in any
> way so far as I can tell. One may consider it in poor taste
> however, given that the man has just died, and indeed AOM was once
> bestowed for quite a similar thing.
>
> -- Bill
--
Bob Mann
Although many will suffer long term health problems in all likelyhood,
if this was going to happen I think it would have been happening much
more often. In fact, it hasn't happened at all. The BB deaths so far
have been due to other drugs and/or other complications.
Buttsbnny
God did we laugh ourselves silly over this one - ANMD actually has standards -
who would have thought
>have taken
>all kinds of bbing drugs, and that you still
>look like a pencil neck,
This was pretty funny too - especially since it has only been a year for O and
he was a former pro bike racer....hence a sport you need to be light.
>We can either argue, which you know I enjoy
>doing, or we can get along. Its your call, Ollie.
>
Bwahahahaha- oh yeah, He cares. Anyone ever notice how if human 'suffering'
is afoot that Josh raises his estrogenic little head to attempt to pester
people in any way he can. Especially those who are in the public spot light.
How sad he can not muster up a life of his own. Boy - it really is useless
reading your posts Josh. I had atleast hopped to be entertained today. But
all I got was a good laugh at your expense. Oh well. I am sure you will
respond with your usual pathetic drivel in hopes that you will some how matter.
Then you will have to sit back in your little room, along once again...waiting
for a response you will never get. Perhaps it hurt you that Curtis actually
had friends that would miss him when he passed - and you know that there is no
one in this world who would care if you did.
FleaFlea72
>again...waiting
>for a response you will never get. Perhaps it hurt you that Curtis actually
>had friends that would miss him when he passed - and you know that there is
>no
>one in this world who would care if you did.
Yes, Steph, you hit the nail right on the head.
I am a fat loser that doesnt train and no one
cares about me. Please pass me your 'Bain!
I need it more than you!
FleaFlea72
>if this was going to happen I think it would have been happening much
>more often. In fact, it hasn't happened at all. The BB deaths so far
>have been due to other drugs and/or other complications.
Give them time, Grasshopper. While they look 15 years older than they do, they
are still
in their 30's, which is relatively young.
PusBag
>From: fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72)
>Give them time, Grasshopper. While they look 15 years older than they do,
>they
>are still
>in their 30's, which is relatively young.
I was browsing the health
food store just for some laughs.
I was with someone who knows
nothing about bodybuilding.
She points to Dorian's picture
on Joe Weiner's Anabolic Blow
Packs, or whatever the shit, and
asks me: "Who's this old
guy?"
PB
Will Brink
fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72) wrote:
> >making stuff up causes damage
> >to him and his familly
>
> And i'm supposed to care? I, like everyone
> else in the media, is interested in his drug
> habits.
At least youre an honest asshole.
--
-Will Brink, www.brinkzone.com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin.
PusBag
>. If not a factor, than its sad
>>when dick heads with no life have to come out of the wood work and
>>"speculate" as to how the poor guy died.
>>-Will Brink, www.brinkzone.com
>Will-
>
>BIG kiss in your direction. Thanks for having class.
>Steph
Whoa! Way to go Will,
gonna get some pussy.
PB
Billy Chambless
|> >> |> If this isnt a crock of denial, I dont know what is! Go to
|> >> |> http://www.bodybuilder.org and look
|> >> |> at his pics. The guy is a walking drug FREAK.
|> >> Uh-huh. The pictures prove he was full of steroids, eh?
|> >> Damn, you need to pass this info on to the IOC so the quit wasting time
|> >> with piss tests! They can just switch to visual exams for steroid abuse!
|> >This is getting stupid.
|> >Please don't start claiming that Mr. Lefler was natural.
I never claimed he was natural; my point was that FleaFucker is talking
out of an orifice normally used for other purposes.
|> Yeah no kidding. If one cannot tell if a person is abusing steroids by simply
|> looking
|> at their condition, then are NOT a real bber.
Hmmm... I can tell by looking at the attempted sentence above that
you've sniffed way the hell too much glue.
Billy Chambless
|> On 6 Sep 1998 01:17:58 GMT, fleaf...@aol.com (FleaFlea72) wrote:
|> >Yeah no kidding. If one cannot tell if a person is abusing steroids by simply
|> >looking
|> >at their condition, then are NOT a real bber.
|> Is this Steve Kidwell?
No way.
Even when Skidwell's being a buthead, he's at least coherent.
Bob Mann
wrote:
Yeah, I know, I was just yanking his chain.
It just sounded like he was copying something Steve said a while ago.
Or trying to at least.
FleaFlea72
>>
>>BIG kiss in your direction. Thanks for having class.
>>Steph
>
>Whoa! Way to go Will,
>gonna get some pussy.
>
>PB
LOL Will's gonna get some Rosenlund
pussy, eh? Have you actually SEEN
that pussy, pusbag? Her clit must be the size
of a vacuum hose from all that androgen abuse. I dont know about you, but
seeing
a 5'4" woman weighing 250 lbs and shredded
isnt all that sexy or appealing. She must be incredibly insecure to want to
use all of those drugs to make herself look like that. I think her facial
deformaty has gone beyond reproach. Not even the best plastic surgeon in the
world could fix that mess. If he were trying to fix it, he'd probably give up
after 8 hours and just hit her in the face with a sledge hammer. She'd
probably look even better!
O Starr
night?
Well, I mean before you got Skidwells...
Buttsbnny
My last name is Starr
>pussy, eh? Have you actually SEEN
>that pussy, pusbag?
Sorry only the husband gets that - so keep your fantasys to yourself Josh
Her clit must be the size
>of a vacuum hose from all that androgen abuse.
Hate to disappoint you but I currently train clean in the off season
I dont know about you, but
>seeing
>a 5'4"
5'2''
woman weighing 250 lbs
nope= 135 right now but thanks for the well wishes
Oh - but I do look more manly than you Josh..then again so do most of the
victoria secret models.
FleaFlea72
>night?
>
>Well, I mean before you got Skidwells...
>
>
I got one thing to say, Oliver: Keep messing
with Kidwell and see what happens to you
and your ugly bitch. Kidwell doesnt play around and could smoke your ass any
day of the week.
PusBag
Date: 98-09-07 01:56:49 EDT
From: PusBag
To: FleaFlea72
The ugliest and
biggest clit has to go to that other
big dyke who made that "Super
Klitty" video. Suzan Kukamunga.
That goddam thing is
like a little penis.
PB
PusBag
>From: ost...@aol.com (O Starr)
>Date: Mon, Sep 7, 1998 01:50 EDT
>If she really looks so bad, Josh, why do you jerk off to her picture every
>night?
I try to find Monica Brant
pictures on the net to jerk
off to.
PB
FleaFlea72
>Oh - but I do look more manly than you Josh..then again so do most of the
>victoria secret models.
>
>
Yeah, I am a real fat pussy.