Tone Raiders = Silly and Pedantic
Henry H. Hansteen
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:
Fourth Edition. 2000.
(http://www.bartleby.com/61/1/T0260100.html)
tone
NOUN: 8. Physiology a. The normal state of elastic tension or
partial contraction in resting muscles. b. Normal firmness
of a tissue or an organ.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: tone
Pronunciation: 'tOn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tonus tension,
tone, from Greek tonos, literally, act of stretching;
akin to Greek teinein to stretch -- more at THIN
Date: 14th century
10 a : healthy elasticity : RESILIENCY b : general
character, quality, or trend <a city's upbeat tone> c :
frame of mind : MOOD
Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
Glad to be of service.
Henry
Bob Tokyo
"Henry H. Hansteen" <hh...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:3B333741...@cornell.edu...
Which, if an individuals body fat is sufficiently high, is not visible.
Which why using "tone" as a synonym for "good muscle definition" (largely a
function of bodyfat levels) is technically incorrect even though "tone" has
assumed that popular function in current American English. Now admit that
you're just being peevish because people were mean to you, and let's get
back to discussing whether keggling has any practical value beyond rehab
(after childbirth) and bladder control. ;-)
Big Lee
Which means you are not dead. Real big help there kid.
Henry H. Hansteen
> "Henry H. Hansteen" <hh...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
> > Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
> > quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
> > Glad to be of service.
> > Henry
> Which, if an individuals body fat is sufficiently high, is
> not visible.
Yup. That's why people with excessive fat don't get many
compliments on their muscle tone - or is it complements?
Never mind, that's another thread....
> Now admit that you're just being peevish because people were
> mean to you, and let's get back to discussing whether keggling
> has any practical value beyond rehab (after childbirth) and
> bladder control. ;-)
Much more interesting subject! Good thinking, Bob - but I
believe the proper technical term would be "kegeling". ;->
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 7:17 AM
>Message-id: <3B333741...@cornell.edu>
>
>
> The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language:
> Fourth Edition. 2000.
>
>(http://www.bartleby.com/61/1/T0260100.html)
>
> tone
>
> NOUN: 8. Physiology a. The normal state of elastic tension or
> partial contraction in resting muscles. b. Normal firmness
> of a tissue or an organ.
>
>
> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
>
> Main Entry: tone
> Pronunciation: 'tOn
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Middle English, from Latin tonus tension,
> tone, from Greek tonos, literally, act of stretching;
> akin to Greek teinein to stretch -- more at THIN
> Date: 14th century
>
> 10 a : healthy elasticity : RESILIENCY b : general
> frame of mind : MOOD
>
>
> Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
>quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
> Glad to be of service.
> Henry
Which is a state that does not come about from exercise, but from the extent to
which the muscles are contracted in their resting state, just as I said. Did
you actually read these defintions? "NOUN: 8. Physiology a. The normal state
of elastic tension or
> partial contraction in resting muscles." That's pretty much thedefintion I
gave from Dorland's medical Dictionary and from the hotsprings website.
The word comes "from Greek tonos, literally, act of stretching", and as I said,
tone is the resistance a resting muscle presents to passive stretch. "10 a :
healthy elasticity": that again, depends on the degree of contraction in the
resting state: too much and there won't be a healthy elasticity because the
muscle won't give enough when you stretch it, too little and the won't be
"healthy elasticity' because there will be too much give. No matter how you
want to interpret these definitions, they don't mean what you want to make them
mean. Tone is a function of the CNS.
Ellen
-----------
Everybody looks "different" one way or another. That's how we tell them apart.
-Miss Manners
Big Lee
"EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010622103920...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
operational word here is "read" as in your question, "Did you actually
read these definitions?" Reading, reasoning, logic and intellectual
activity are not his strong suit.
This individual's ideas are formed by television, ignorance and popular
culture. That is why he thinks he has so much to offer. If we can all become
ignorant like him, we will fit better into his world. He obviously has no
respect for the facts or the people in this newgroup.
I maintain that I have never, never heard a knowledgable person use the tone
term. Perhaps he is a great scholar in his own mind. He hasn't impressed
anyone here.
Henry H. Hansteen
> >From: "Henry H. Hansteen" hh...@cornell.edu
> > Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
> >quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
> > Glad to be of service.
> > Henry
> Which is a state that does not come about from exercise,
> but from the extent to which the muscles are contracted
> in their resting state, just as I said.
So, you're saying that resistance training has no effect on
muscle firmness, quality, and resiliency? Bizarre...
> Did you actually read these defintions?
Uh huh. In fact, the words firmness, quality, and resiliency
came directly from those definitions. Did *you* read 'em?
> No matter how you want to interpret these definitions, they
> don't mean what you want to make them mean.
No matter how much time and effort you waste trying to
convince the world that *only* your narrow, specific, and
technical definition of "muscle tone" is an acceptable
definition, you'll never do it. As I said, language
is flexible, constantly evolving, and many words have
multiple accepted meanings and applications. You know,
flexible and evolving are pretty good traits in people,
too.
You are definitely fighting an uphill and pointless
battle with this silly, stubborn, and pedantic argument.
Both definitions are acceptable - not yours alone.
HTH!
Henry
Erik Ivanenko
--
Erik Ivanenko
CCMS Supervisor
University of Toronto
Ph: 416-978-1900
Fax: 416-978-6650
Big Lee
"Erik Ivanenko" <erik.i...@utoronto.ca> wrote in message
news:3B335336...@utoronto.ca...
Didn't you say earlier that "tone" meant "definition"?
He makes it up as he goes along. It is hard to keep the many definitions
straight.
Karmen Ghia
wrote:
An idiotic response from an idiot.
No surprises there.
**********************************************************************
Tired of having to wade thru the m.f.w. clubby-club bs? Want real discussion and learning
on strength training?
www.yahoogroups.com Join Supertraining forum !!
**********************************************************************
Watson Davis
<hh...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>Bob Tokyo wrote:
>> "Henry H. Hansteen" <hh...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
>
>> > Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
>> > quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
>> > Glad to be of service.
>> > Henry
>
>> Which, if an individuals body fat is sufficiently high, is
>> not visible.
>
> Yup. That's why people with excessive fat don't get many
>compliments on their muscle tone - or is it complements?
>Never mind, that's another thread....
BUT.
Just because people have fat doesn't mean they don't have muscle tone.
The "tone" of your muscles can be totally great (which means normal)
and covered up.
When people say "I want toned muscles" they mean "I want semi-ripped
muscle definition." Those are the same people who think that
semi-ripped look is a function of lifting the weights and that a
certain set/rep scheme will give them that look. Those people must be
slain.
Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
Mistress Krista
Hint: the muscle bone is attached to the brain bone.
Krista
"Henry H. Hansteen" <hh...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:3B333741...@cornell.edu...
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 11:01 AM
>Message-id: <gkp6jtsg2quk435kc...@4ax.com>
To be fair to the group that use the "t*ne" word as in "tone up", it probably
would be helpful to have a term that means increase muscle and strength while
decreasing body fat. After all, it is possible to increase muscle while
eating a lot, even if you don't do resistance training, because you get
resistance from dragging an increasingly larger body around and because if you
eat enough food, you will get lots of protein, but of course doing that will
also add lots of fat. So just bulking up does not convey what is meant. it is
also possible to reduce body fat by starving yourself, but that also reduces
muscle, so talking about "losing weight" does not convey what is meant. What
is needed is a term that conveyys changing the proportion of muscle to fat,
more of the former, and less of the latter. of course, there is the term "body
building", but most people who go to the gym to 'tone up" aren't looking to
become body builders (and a good thing, too, how many of us would succeed?).
There is "body sculpting", but that sounds like what girls do (although to me,
so does "tone up". I can't really make myself hear it as a masculine term, for
some reason.)
So I can understand the popular use of "tone", and as I said before, if the
rest of the ng had been happy to use that term when I came along, I'd have gone
along. the problem that I see (and I suspect the rest of the regulars see)
with that use of the term is the very inclusivity that makes it helpful in
popular parlance: it's hard to give advice to someone who wants to "tone up"
because you don't know exactly what they want to do. Lose weight? Gain
weight, with an emphasis on muscle? Lose body fat but maintain weight? Get
stronger, and forget the weight aspect? Spot reduce? (I know, it can't be done
but that doesn't stop people from wanting to do it.) Since the purpose of this
ng (or one of them) is to exchange tips and techniques to help people obtain
their goals, it behooves folks to be clear enough about their goals to ask the
right questions, and understanding just how your body works does help to
formulate goals. Perhaps it is my professional bias, but I don't think having a
basic understanding of how your central nervous system controls movement and
posture is a lot to ask of people who want to improve their strength and
fitness.
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 9:52 AM
>Message-id: <PYIY6.223944$p33.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
Thanks, Lee, for the kind words. I like to think I can contribute something
here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice is not my
string suit.
Big Lee
Big Lee
little or nothing in terms of practical information. To make changes you
have to use big words. Toneing is a little word. whatever anybodiy's
fantasies about what this word means to them, it converys little information
to someone who can give practical advice in terms of physcial training.
It's like if you talk baby talk to me, I will intuitively figure out what
you mean. If someone is not going to communicate clearly what they want, do
they seriously expect to get any serious training advice? Or perhaps more
importantly, do they realistically expect to acheive any real results with
their own body.
I really don't see a bunch of pretty boys and girls working out (toneing) in
a gym and getting good results if they can not talk about their bodies and
training in an intelligent fashion. Exactly what kind of good routine would
one follow to "tone"??
Lyle McDonald
Great, wonderful, correct, we all agree.
That's not what the majority of people *mean* when they say "I want to
get toned."
Muscle tonus is a specific characteristic of the muscle.
Being toned, in layman's terms, means something very different.
Lyle
Bob Tokyo
"Big Lee" <leemi...@home.com> wrote in message
news:28LY6.225183$p33.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
Besides Ellen, you've given some very good advice to a number of people
here. The puns are just a bonus.
Bob Tokyo
Oops, typo. My apologies.
Lyle McDonald
>
> "Big Lee" <leemi...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:28LY6.225183$p33.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
> >
> > "EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20010622125224...@ng-md1.aol.com...
> > > Thanks, Lee, for the kind words. I like to think I can contribute
> > something
> > > here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice is
> > not my
> > > string suit.
> > >
> > Don't sell yourself short Ellen. Your silly puns are appreciated.
> >
> Seconded. A silly pun is like a melody, or something to that effect.
I thought the pun was the lowest form of humor.
Lyle
Big Lee
"Bob Tokyo" <rober...@japan.com> wrote in message
news:tj72lck...@news.supernews.com...
made very positive changes in their life through training. You have done so.
We are proud of you. Your comments, stories, anecdotes AND puns are all
appreciated.
One of the reasons why people post here is to help people. (In spite of some
demented types who hang out and try to prevent such activity) You have done
well with the advice you have been given. We are proud of you.
Big Lee
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
news:3B338B7A...@onr.com...
Lyle McDonald
You got me there.
Lyle
Bob Tokyo
a dark room and accidentally groping a surprised and offended looking yet
oddly compliant young lady.
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 4:11 PM
>Message-id: <tj72lck...@news.supernews.com>
Thank you both. I guess you figured out that was supposed to have been "strong
suit", not "string suit", although I did oncce have a bikini that could have
been described as a string suit. But that was back when I had a 23" waist (and
still couldn't see my abs).
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 1:22 PM
>Message-id: <P1MY6.225641$p33.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
>
>
<snip>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks, Lee, for the kind words. I like to think I can contribute
>> > something
>> > > here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice
>is
>> > not my
>> > > string suit.
>> > >
>> > Don't sell yourself short Ellen. Your silly puns are appreciated.
>> >
>> Seconded. A silly pun is like a melody, or something to that effect.
>> Besides Ellen, you've given some very good advice to a number of people
>> here. The puns are just a bonus.
>>
>>
>In addition to that, we all like to hear success stories of people who have
>made very positive changes in their life through training. You have done
>so.
>We are proud of you. Your comments, stories, anecdotes AND puns are all
>appreciated.
>
>One of the reasons why people post here is to help people. (In spite of
>some
>demented types who hang out and try to prevent such activity) You have done
>well with the advice you have been given. We are proud of you.
Now you really are going to make me cry, and I won't be able to see the bar to
deadlift.
Oh, wait, I am not supposed to look at the bar when I deadlift anyway.
Scott K.
> something
> > here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice is
> not my
> > string suit.
> >
> Don't sell yourself short Ellen. Your silly puns are appreciated.
>
>
Jpegs of you in the string suit would also be nice.
EMF1947
>Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 2:53 PM
>Message-id: <9h07ol$9...@dispatch.concentric.net>
I have a jpeg of me in a string dress, form 1988.
http://members.aol.com/emf1947/dress1.jpg
Erik Ivanenko
Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> I thought the pun was the lowest form of humor.
>
I thought it was satire.
Victor Conte
wrote:
>> > I thought the pun was the lowest form of humor.
>Lyle
You are the lowest form of scum, fatboy.
Nina
Nope, you cracking a joke is the lowest form of humor.
Wait, sorry, that's the *shortest* form of humor.
;)
Cheers,
Nina
--
SlackMistress 2.0
http://www.theslack.com
"We are all awaiting the instant gratification granted us through the
blessed affirmations of Her Royal Highness, The SlackMistress." -Mike Turco
Lyle McDonald
so Benny Hill is the lowest form of humor, then?
Lyle
Angela
>
>"EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010622125224...@ng-md1.aol.com...
>> >From: "Big Lee" leemi...@home.com
>> >Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 9:52 AM
>> >Message-id: <PYIY6.223944$p33.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >"EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> Thanks, Lee, for the kind words. I like to think I can contribute
>something
>> here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice is
>not my
>> string suit.
>>
>Don't sell yourself short Ellen. Your silly puns are appreciated.
>
As is your string suit : O
--
A
Elzi Volk
Again, thank you for your clarification, Ellen. It's time the masses
were educated on this issue :)
Elzi
"In Texas, even the vegetables are made of meat!"
-L. McDonald
"In American popular evolutionary biology,the Lone Zygote rides again."
- Bob Tokyo
http://www.moleculegirl.f2s.com/
EMF1947
>were educated on this issue :)
>
>
>Elzi
>
>"In Texas, even the vegetables are made of meat!"
>-L. McDonald
>
>"In American popular evolutionary biology,the Lone Zygote rides again."
>- Bob Tokyo
>http://www.moleculegirl.f2s.com/
>
Some of the masses seem to look on resisting education as a species of
resistance training.
Runyoverrunx
Unfortunately, it is misused sometimes.
Unfortunately then the wantabe nazi attack anyone that uses it.
Slope
Scott K.
"Runyoverrunx" <runyov...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010622223714...@ng-mj1.aol.com...
> Tone is a perfectly good term IMHO.
>
> Unfortunately, it is misused sometimes.
>
> Unfortunately then the wantabe nazi attack anyone that uses it.
'wantabe nazi' seems like a harsh description for pedants.
"Well, no, Slope is right. In addition to correcting vocabulary, I also
enjoy wearing black and torturing women and children to death; his
description is eminently fair. Sergeant, pass me another virgin and that
blowtorch."
Watson Davis
wrote:
>Tone is a perfectly good term IMHO.
>
>Unfortunately, it is misused sometimes.
>
>Unfortunately then the wantabe nazi attack anyone that uses it.
The attack on the use of the t*ne word is an MFW tradition going back
centuries. It seems a shame to stop now.
T.Blaze Boren
news:qi38jtk3g5choebsm...@4ax.com...
We will NOT stop!
"Tone? Tone? I got something right here you can tone!"
--
Blaze
You need Jesus
Bob Tokyo
Watson Davis
<hh...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>EMF1947 wrote:
>> >From: "Henry H. Hansteen" hh...@cornell.edu
>
>> > Therefore, "good muscle tone" can mean good firmness,
>> >quality, and resiliency in a muscle.
>> > Glad to be of service.
>> > Henry
>
>> Which is a state that does not come about from exercise,
>> but from the extent to which the muscles are contracted
>> in their resting state, just as I said.
>
> So, you're saying that resistance training has no effect on
>muscle firmness, quality, and resiliency? Bizarre...
Basically. Yeah. Several recreational bodybuilders have muscles that
are very soft to the touch. And other guys I know have very hard
muscles. Lifting will not necessarily make your muscles
firmer/harder. There are probably ways to make your muscles harder
through lifting but that isn't what the general populace are talking
about when they say "toned."
When they say "toned," they mean defined. They assume (incorrectly)
that lifting weights makes your muscles become unconsciously flexed
and that that's where the definition comes from. I think they assume
that because the only way you can see their muscles is if they're
flexed that muscles are invisible unless they're flexed. They think
(and I thought this before I started lifting) that their muscles were
lax and that's why they weren't defined. Most people are just wrong
about why their muscles are invisible and this whole "tone" thing is
just a reflection of that ignorance.
Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
>
>> Did you actually read these defintions?
>
> Uh huh. In fact, the words firmness, quality, and resiliency
>came directly from those definitions. Did *you* read 'em?
>
>> No matter how you want to interpret these definitions, they
>> don't mean what you want to make them mean.
>
> No matter how much time and effort you waste trying to
>convince the world that *only* your narrow, specific, and
>technical definition of "muscle tone" is an acceptable
>definition, you'll never do it. As I said, language
>is flexible, constantly evolving, and many words have
>multiple accepted meanings and applications. You know,
>flexible and evolving are pretty good traits in people,
>too.
> You are definitely fighting an uphill and pointless
>battle with this silly, stubborn, and pedantic argument.
> Both definitions are acceptable - not yours alone.
> HTH!
> Henry
BethF
--
-Beth, Pseudo usenet cop
BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss
Anchorage, Alaska
http://home.gci.net/~dawg/
"EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010622155946...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
BethF
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
news:3B33B40A...@onr.com...
Benny Hill followed by the Three Stooges are the lowest forms of humor.
This is why women don't "get it".
--
-Beth, Pseudo usenet cop
BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss
Anchorage, Alaska
http://home.gci.net/~dawg/
>
> Lyle
EMF1947
>Date: Mon, Jun 25, 2001 2:29 PM
>Message-id: <tjf3sk5...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>did someone you know crochet this dress????
>
>--
>-Beth, Pseudo usenet cop
>BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss
>Anchorage, Alaska
>http://home.gci.net/~dawg/
>
>
>"EMF1947" <emf...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010622155946...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
>> >From: "Scott K." skur...@spamcop.net
>> >Date: Fri, Jun 22, 2001 2:53 PM
>> >Message-id: <9h07ol$9...@dispatch.concentric.net>
>> >
>> >> > Thanks, Lee, for the kind words. I like to think I can contribute
>> >> something
>> >> > here, other than silly puns, since giving good weight lifting advice
>> >is
>> >> not my
>> >> > string suit.
>> >> >
>> >> Don't sell yourself short Ellen. Your silly puns are appreciated.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >Jpegs of you in the string suit would also be nice.
>> >
>>
>>
>> http://members.aol.com/emf1947/dress1.jpg
>>
>> Ellen
>> -----------
No, I bought it from a roadside peddler in Zimbabwe for the equivalent of $12
US money back in 1986. I wore it four times as a party dress before getting
married in it in 1988, since I couldn't find a dress I liked better without
paying some outrageous amount, like $1200. I've worn it once since, on an
anniversary.