Att PA and Lyle: 1-ad
Sal C
what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
Have him take 600-900 mg daily. If he gets some strength gains,
he'll pay you for it, publicly apologize to you and wear a bunny suit
for a week..
If he doesn't get anything from it, I'm sure you'll never hear the
end of it..
However, I think that Lyle would be pleasantly surprised at how well
1-AD works for strength increases.
Lyle,
with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks, at the dosage I mentioned.
I', sure that with your great analytical capabilities, you'll
be able to discern whether it's just a placebo effect or not.
Just try the damn thing.
thanks
Patrick Arnold
>
> Hey Pat,
> what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
> Have him take 600-900 mg daily. If he gets some strength gains,
> he'll pay you for it, publicly apologize to you and wear a bunny suit
> for a week..
> If he doesn't get anything from it, I'm sure you'll never hear the
> end of it..
> However, I think that Lyle would be pleasantly surprised at how well
> 1-AD works for strength increases.
>
Lyle does not want prohormones to work, and even if he did this (which
he would not) and it worked for him he would adamantly deny that the
stuff did anything.
But I tell you, looking at Lyle you can tell that his body is just
SCREAMING for androgen assistance and he would probably get huge gains.
His lack of upper body strength in relation to lower body strength
smacks of text book androgen deficiency
--
PA
http://www.ergopharm.net
http://www.lpjresearch.com
This and related e-mails contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL
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of the named addressees. If you are not the intended recipient, any
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The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of ErgoPharm or
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James Klesel
--
Thanks,
James
james....@verizon.net
http://www.forgottenfaith.net/
"Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3AE6F347...@ix.netcom.com...
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Sal C
: Sal C wrote:
:>
:> Hey Pat,
:> what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
:> Have him take 600-900 mg daily. If he gets some strength gains,
:> he'll pay you for it, publicly apologize to you and wear a bunny suit
:> for a week..
:> If he doesn't get anything from it, I'm sure you'll never hear the
:> end of it..
:> However, I think that Lyle would be pleasantly surprised at how well
:> 1-AD works for strength increases.
:>
: Lyle does not want prohormones to work, and even if he did this (which
: he would not) and it worked for him he would adamantly deny that the
: stuff did anything.
I was hoping that Lyle would be more objective. WHo knows if he tries
the stuff, he may become your biggest supporter. I'd love to see
what excuse(s) he'd use...
: But I tell you, looking at Lyle you can tell that his body is just
: SCREAMING for androgen assistance and he would probably get huge gains.
: His lack of upper body strength in relation to lower body strength
: smacks of text book androgen deficiency
LOL! Are you saying that if there was anyone you ever came across
that needed androgens, it's definetly Lyle? Bwahahahahah, that's too funny!
: --
Patrick Arnold
and pec muscles are especially dense with androgen receptors compared to
muscles elsewhere in the body. Therefore....
Patrick Arnold
>
> Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : Sal C wrote:
> :>
> :> Hey Pat,
> :> what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
> :> Have him take 600-900 mg daily. If he gets some strength gains,
> :> he'll pay you for it, publicly apologize to you and wear a bunny suit
> :> for a week..
> :> If he doesn't get anything from it, I'm sure you'll never hear the
> :> end of it..
> :> However, I think that Lyle would be pleasantly surprised at how well
> :> 1-AD works for strength increases.
> :>
>
> : Lyle does not want prohormones to work, and even if he did this (which
> : he would not) and it worked for him he would adamantly deny that the
> : stuff did anything.
>
> I was hoping that Lyle would be more objective. WHo knows if he tries
> the stuff, he may become your biggest supporter. I'd love to see
> what excuse(s) he'd use...
>
> : But I tell you, looking at Lyle you can tell that his body is just
> : SCREAMING for androgen assistance and he would probably get huge gains.
> : His lack of upper body strength in relation to lower body strength
> : smacks of text book androgen deficiency
>
> LOL! Are you saying that if there was anyone you ever came across
> that needed androgens, it's definetly Lyle? Bwahahahahah, that's too funny!
Well, it was not necessarily meant to be a joke or a shot at Lyle. It
was just based on objective observation of him. I would not be
surprised if androgens helped stabilize his mood either. He might go
from a bitchy girl type whiner to a more self assured and mature type
perhaps
Oranthal Juice Simpsons
> But I tell you, looking at Lyle you can tell that his body is just
>SCREAMING for androgen assistance and he would probably get huge gains.
>His lack of upper body strength in relation to lower body strength
>smacks of text book androgen deficiency
And small calves, relatively cut thighs and small arms are related to?
-OJ "Shit Genetics" Simpson
Patrick Arnold
>
> In article <3AE6F347...@ix.netcom.com>, Patrick Arnold wrote:
>
> > But I tell you, looking at Lyle you can tell that his body is just
> >SCREAMING for androgen assistance and he would probably get huge gains.
> >His lack of upper body strength in relation to lower body strength
> >smacks of text book androgen deficiency
>
> And small calves, relatively cut thighs and small arms are related to?
A horse?
>
> -OJ "Shit Genetics" Simpson
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
--
Lyle McDonald
If Pat won't pony up to my challenge, why should I give the first fuck
about yours or his? I have zero interest in taking anything that has
zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
Just because you're too retarded to think about taht type of thing (and
Pat has no data).
My whole point all along is that proper nutrition and training can beat
anything Pat can bring to the table and I stand by that.
Just because he's too chickenshit to put his mouth to the test.
Pat's too greedy to give anything away free.
He'd just accuse me of claiming it didn't work, even if it did, so I
can't win either way.
Not that I wouldn't evaluate it objectively if I gave teh first fuck,
mind you, but Pat would never believe it and neither would you. MY bias
against his retarded-self is too obvious to all for anyone to believe
what I said one way or the other.
But I'm making just fine strength gains (10 lbs/week to bench, squat and
DL without a drop in reps) so I don't need any of Pat's magic fairy dust.
Lyle
lysis_gr
>about yours or his? I have zero interest in taking anything that has
>zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
There are more data on DNP, but noone in their right minds would choose
that over 1-AD. Good judgement is a virtue. Pity you have none.
Kev
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
news:3AE7033E...@onr.com...
>I have zero interest in taking anything that has
> zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
> Just because you're too retarded to think about taht type of thing (and
> Pat has no data).
Correct me if my memory fails, but wasn't it you that hopped on DNP a few
years ago when DD and PA were first talking about it?
Patrick Arnold
>
> Sal C wrote:
> >
> > Hey Pat,
> > what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
> > Have him take 600-900 mg daily. If he gets some strength gains,
> > he'll pay you for it, publicly apologize to you and wear a bunny suit
> > for a week..
> > If he doesn't get anything from it, I'm sure you'll never hear the
> > end of it..
> > However, I think that Lyle would be pleasantly surprised at how well
> > 1-AD works for strength increases.
> >
> > Lyle,
> > with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
> > strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks, at the dosage I mentioned.
> > I', sure that with your great analytical capabilities, you'll
> > be able to discern whether it's just a placebo effect or not.
> >
> > Just try the damn thing.
>
> If Pat won't pony up to my challenge, why should I give the first fuck
> about yours or his? I have zero interest in taking anything that has
> zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
> Just because you're too retarded to think about taht type of thing (and
> Pat has no data).
Unless it involves injecting himself with completely untested substances
in order to attempt to kill fat cells. Or is that not exactly what you
said you plan on doing in your post from two days ago Lily?
>
> My whole point all along is that proper nutrition and training can beat
> anything Pat can bring to the table and I stand by that.
Its done wonders for your physique so far
>
> Just because he's too chickenshit to put his mouth to the test.
> Pat's too greedy to give anything away free.
> He'd just accuse me of claiming it didn't work, even if it did, so I
> can't win either way.
I would accuse you of claiming it didn't work even if it did? So you
admit you would lie about its effects? Clear your schizophrenic fucking
head and make some sense Lyle.
>
> Not that I wouldn't evaluate it objectively if I gave teh first fuck,
> mind you, but Pat would never believe it and neither would you. MY bias
> against his retarded-self is too obvious to all for anyone to believe
> what I said one way or the other.
>
> But I'm making just fine strength gains (10 lbs/week to bench, squat and
> DL without a drop in reps) so I don't need any of Pat's magic fairy dust.
>
> Lyle
Congrats, sounds like you just increased your maximums by 30% already!!
Patrick Arnold
Good judgment and rational thought requires that one not be psychotic
Patrick Arnold
though
--
Lyle McDonald
> Lyle,
> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
Adding.
CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
Also, I'll be real curious to see how much of that newfound strnegth you
KEEP when you go off.
Lemme know, Sal.
Lyle
Sal C
: Sal C wrote:
:>
:> Lyle,
:> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
:> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks, at the dosage I mentioned.
:> I', sure that with your great analytical capabilities, you'll
:> be able to discern whether it's just a placebo effect or not.
:>
:> Just try the damn thing.
: If Pat won't pony up to my challenge, why should I give the first fuck
: about yours or his?
Because it's not a challenge. You are the one making unsubstantiated claims
about 1-AD's efficacy, without having even tried it. You know what that
makes you, right?
Also because this has nothing to do with the posedown. You're coming up with
excuses lyle, because you're afraid that it will work, and you'll have
to eat your words.
: I have zero interest in taking anything that has
: zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
: Just because you're too retarded to think about taht type of thing (and
: Pat has no data).
One word: DNP
: My whole point all along is that proper nutrition and training can beat
: anything Pat can bring to the table and I stand by that.
Are you saying that if you added 1-AD to your highly disciplened dieting
and training regiment, that it would have 0 effect?
You are very wrong on this one. Based on my experience, 800mg 1-AD/day gives
strength gains comparable to 800-900 mg of Deca/week. And all this without
the bloat. It is also powerful enough to retard any catabolic effects of T3.
: Just because he's too chickenshit to put his mouth to the test.
: Pat's too greedy to give anything away free.
I'm not. I'm ready to pay Ed Sturm to give you 3 bottles of 1-AD,
provided that you pay me if it works or return the bottles to me,
if it doesn't work for you.
You're a lot of things Lyle, but I beleve you're honest.
: He'd just accuse me of claiming it didn't work, even if it did, so I
: can't win either way.
: Not that I wouldn't evaluate it objectively if I gave teh first fuck,
: mind you, but Pat would never believe it and neither would you. MY bias
: against his retarded-self is too obvious to all for anyone to believe
: what I said one way or the other.
Hah, but you do give a "first fuck" Lyle. Otherwise you wouldn't say shit
about 1-AD. It's that simple. You've been giving Pat hell over 1-AD,
without objectively evaluating it. You used your immense knowledge
about steroids to claim that this is all "andro-goop", no more
effective than drinking sea-water. Do you see a problem with that?
: But I'm making just fine strength gains (10 lbs/week to bench, squat and
: DL without a drop in reps) so I don't need any of Pat's magic fairy dust.
So you're up to what, benching 95 lbs? Did you ever think that
adding 1-AD to the mix, would help you *alot*? COme to think of it
does the possibility that you're wrong sometimes ever come to
mind?
--sal
: Lyle
Kev
Kev
"Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3AE70B06...@ix.netcom.com...
Sal C
: Sal C wrote:
:> Lyle,
:> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
:> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
: Adding.
: CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
: ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
: So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
You know I wish 1-AD was a powerful CNS stimulant, but it's not at all.
4AD gives a better CNS kick, but doesn't effect muscle anabolism as well
as 1-AD. And I've tried working out on Xenadrene, but strength gains on that
pale in comparison to 1-AD.
: Also, I'll be real curious to see how much of that newfound strnegth you
: KEEP when you go off.
Strawman argument, Lyle and you know it. Unless proper precautions are taken
when doing deca or test, the same thing will happen. Are they "fairy dust" too?
: Lemme know, Sal.
Sure. I plan on taking clomid and hcg after wards.
--sal
: Lyle
Ed Sturm
"Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
news:9c714j$v0k$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
If this is true, and I think it is because I've seen Lyel mention having
extra DNP, this makes Lyle the biggest fucking hypocrite this group has ever
seen. How the hell can someone who has ever used DNP try to get a point
across about not wanting to use 1AD because it "might not" be safe.
Is this a joke?
--
Ed Sturm
Hard Bodies Discount Supplements
____________________________
http://www.hardbodiessupplements.com
http://www.hbsupplements.com
http://www.hbstores.com
http://www.edsturm.com
>
>
Lyle McDonald
>
> Lyle McDonald <lyl...@onr.com> wrote:
> : Sal C wrote:
>
> :> Lyle,
> :> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
> :> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
>
> : Adding.
>
> : CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
> : ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
> : So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
>
> You know I wish 1-AD was a powerful CNS stimulant, but it's not at all.
> 4AD gives a better CNS kick, but doesn't effect muscle anabolism as well
As well as what? 10 times zero is still zero, Sal.
> as 1-AD. And I've tried working out on Xenadrene, but strength gains on that
> pale in comparison to 1-AD.
So what have your gains been? Just curious. How do they compare to
your gains pre-1AD? What else about your traijning and/or diet did you
change when you went on the AD? Are you more attentive to your diet,
does knowing you're taking it make you train harder?
Shall I go on or do you get my point?
>
> : Also, I'll be real curious to see how much of that newfound strnegth you
> : KEEP when you go off.
>
> Strawman argument, Lyle and you know it. Unless proper precautions are taken
> when doing deca or test, the same thing will happen. Are they "fairy dust" too?
The gains stay if you taper off right. But the fact is that, frequently
the gains don't stay. So what IS the fucking point? With proper
training and nutrition, you keep the gains because you're not
artifically elevating them. But hey, you wanna piss money away on
something, it's not my place to convince you otherwise, it's your
fucking money.
Since I'm not planning on competing (outside of our informal
competition) for anyone but myself, I don't give the first fuck about a
few extra pounds on my frame or my bench. But I'm not the insecure type
of fuckwit that Pat sells his stuff to, the type who is willing to spend
any amount of time and money for 10 lbs on their bench or 3 lbs on their
body, knowing that they will never compete in the first place.
Tell, me, Sal, waht the fuck is the point of it? Is being big and
strong taht important to your ego for you to piss that type of money
away? Actually, I already know the answer: it is or you wouldn't be
defending your choice to adamantly.
But me, I'm motivated internally, I go to teh gym and train I watch my
diet adn come out knowing I did my best. As long as I can honestly say
that (and there are times when I can't, when I didn't watch my diet or
didn't put my effort into my workouts), I'm happy. The end results are
somewhat tangential because my ego isn't tied up in my bench or arm size
like most. It's the insecure fucks who think that big arms or a big
bench makes them a 'big man' who waste time and money on this type of
shit. Because wehether I'm big and strong or not, I'm still the same
person, my ego and beleif in myself isn't tied up in my appearance like
most fuckwit bodybuilders.
Nevermind that it's usually the folks taking this shit instead of
actually training hard, we've got a country full of lazy fucks who would
rather spend money on fairy dust (and emember I consider 99.9% of all
supplements to be fairy dust, I'm not just harshing on Pat except that
he won't let this go and I'm feeling vindictive) than actually apply effort.
Because putting effort to increase your bench is hard, taking fairy dust
is the easy way out. I consdier steroids the easy way out too, unless
you have a very specific reason (such as wanting to comepete in
bodybuilding) for doing so. But for the average fuck to do so, so he
can be big and strong or wahtever is retarded to me. But most people
are insecure little dimwits, especailly those who go into bodybuilding.
Yeah, sure, if you were going to compete in something, and teh gains in
size or strength from androshit made the difference between winning and
losing, I'd be all for it. Outside of that goal, what does it fucking
matter to you that your bench is up 20 lbs and your a little havier on
the scale? Seriously, does it make you feel better about yourself? Do
you think it impresses anyone but the types of superficial idiots too
dumb to realize that how big you are/how much you can bench means
NOTHING in the big scheme of things? I assure you that the chicks who
are worth being with (i.e. not the superficial golddiggers that live at
most gyms) give far more of a fuck of who yo uare as a person than how
big your arms are. OF coures, if your goal is to fuck superficial
dumbshit chicks, get as big and huge as the fairy dust can get you.
It'll make you happy and I'm all about happiness.
Just reealize that's what you're doing and don't pretend otherwise.
> : Lemme know, Sal.
> Sure. I plan on taking clomid and hcg after wards.
Well, that makes it real relevant to the rest of us.
Except that you're probably kiddin.
Lyle
Steve Gallagher
>
> Hey Pat,
> what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
Lyle doesn't do prohormones. His choice, his reasons. I happen
not to agree with those reasons, but they're his. You'll find
that a lot of the time the gulf between those who define "natural"
as "it ain't illegal" and those who define "natural" as "milk,
meat, and squats, period" is a very big gulf indeed, philosophically
speaking.
Me, I'm of the "natural = legal" school. I wouldn't do well in
prison. No, wouldn't do well at all.
--
"Links, zwo! Links, zwo! Links, zwo, drei, vier! Links!"
Rammstein, "Links 2 3 4"
Lyle McDonald
>
> Sal C wrote:
> >
> > Hey Pat,
> > what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
>
> Lyle doesn't do prohormones. His choice, his reasons. I happen
> not to agree with those reasons, but they're his.
What were my reasons again, Steve?
Be curious to hear waht they are from someone else.
Not flaming, just curious what you think they are.
I'll absolutely tell you if they're right, but I'll equally tell you if
they're not.
Lyle
who did use AD when it first came out. Well, tried it anyhow.
Dale Jung
I'm a teenager so I'm not concidering taking 1-AD even though I'm 5"11 and
have stopped growing. But a couple weeks ago my curiosity got the better of
me so I took one pill with a meal. I gained alot of strength and my muscle
were hooooge, i mean i could REALLY tell the difference. About 4 days later
the effect was gone, wanting to test if it was some kind of placebo effect i
than took another pill about a week later, once again alot of muscle gain(i
could tell it wasn't bloating) even with a little workout. The effects once
again wore off in 4 days. And that has been my 1-ad experiance. Did i have a
strong reaction to 1-ad or is that normal?
"Sal C" <ran...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9c6r1p$1g6$1...@news.panix.com...
Lyle McDonald
>
> On a completely different note has anyone ever tried just taking one pill?
> I'm a teenager so I'm not concidering taking 1-AD even though I'm 5"11 and
> have stopped growing. But a couple weeks ago my curiosity got the better of
> me so I took one pill with a meal. I gained alot of strength and my muscle
> were hooooge, i mean i could REALLY tell the difference. About 4 days later
> the effect was gone, wanting to test if it was some kind of placebo effect i
> than took another pill about a week later, once again alot of muscle gain(i
> could tell it wasn't bloating) even with a little workout. The effects once
> again wore off in 4 days. And that has been my 1-ad experiance. Did i have a
> strong reaction to 1-ad or is that normal?
It is physioloigically impossible to gain a lot of strength and muscle
in that short a time frame.
Unless pat's wrong and 1-AD is activating the androgen receptor and
causing lots of water weight gain. But he swears it can't, making it a
case (to me) of you seeing what you wanted to see.
Or the 1-AD increased glycogen storage or something in your muscle,
which isn't androgen mediated taht I know of (I haven't gotten that far
in my reading yet).
Lyle
Dale Jung
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
news:3AE71AF5...@onr.com...
James Klesel
and her traps and shoulders got freakin' huge. She looked like a muscular
guy from the rear after a month of that.
--
Thanks,
James
james....@verizon.net
http://www.forgottenfaith.net/
"Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3AE6FA50...@ix.netcom.com...
Victor Conte
for a
short while.
Scott K.
--
Scott Kurland
Max effort squat/dead/GM Mondays
Max effort bench/push press Wednesdays
Tickets are available....
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
news:3AE71AF5...@onr.com...
> Dale Jung wrote:
> >
> > On a completely different note has anyone ever tried just taking one
pill?
> > I'm a teenager so I'm not concidering taking 1-AD even though I'm 5"11
and
> > have stopped growing. But a couple weeks ago my curiosity got the better
of
> > me so I took one pill with a meal. I gained alot of strength and my
muscle
> > were hooooge, i mean i could REALLY tell the difference. About 4 days
later
> > the effect was gone, wanting to test if it was some kind of placebo
effect i
> > than took another pill about a week later, once again alot of muscle
gain(i
> > could tell it wasn't bloating) even with a little workout. The effects
once
> > again wore off in 4 days. And that has been my 1-ad experiance. Did i
have a
> > strong reaction to 1-ad or is that normal?
>
> It is physioloigically impossible to gain a lot of strength and muscle
> in that short a time frame.
>
Muscle, maybe, but the first time I tried the EC stack the effect was pretty
dramatic. Maybe I should add salt.
For that matter, when my GF creatine-loaded it worked PDQ.
Patrick Arnold
>
> Lyle McDonald <lyl...@onr.com> wrote:
> : Sal C wrote:
>
> :> Lyle,
> :> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
> :> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
>
> : Adding.
>
> : CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
> : ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
> : So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
>
> You know I wish 1-AD was a powerful CNS stimulant, but it's not at all.
> 4AD gives a better CNS kick, but doesn't effect muscle anabolism as well
> as 1-AD. And I've tried working out on Xenadrene, but strength gains on that
> pale in comparison to 1-AD.
>
I am not sure, but i think alot of the perceived stimulant effect from
androgens is associated with aromatazition in the CNS. I know that alot
of the libido stimulation is
Victor Conte
never be one. Face it, you are doomed to a life of looking and acting very fenimine.
The reason that you try to act so tough on mfw is because you are a very weak and
insecure little wimp. You definitely have a severe case of "overcompensationitis"
regarding this issue. Sorry, I just remembered that you do not make threats, only
"promises". The only problem is that your promises are all empty.
Patrick Arnold
about 5 years ago were you?
--
Patrick Arnold
>
> On a completely different note has anyone ever tried just taking one pill?
> I'm a teenager so I'm not concidering taking 1-AD even though I'm 5"11 and
> have stopped growing. But a couple weeks ago my curiosity got the better of
> me so I took one pill with a meal. I gained alot of strength and my muscle
> were hooooge, i mean i could REALLY tell the difference. About 4 days later
> the effect was gone, wanting to test if it was some kind of placebo effect i
> than took another pill about a week later, once again alot of muscle gain(i
> could tell it wasn't bloating) even with a little workout. The effects once
> again wore off in 4 days. And that has been my 1-ad experiance. Did i have a
> strong reaction to 1-ad or is that normal?
>
You had an exceptionally strong placebo effect
Lyle McDonald
>
> I knew a girl at the gym who took a little Laurabolin, like 100 mgs a week,
> and her traps and shoulders got freakin' huge. She looked like a muscular
> guy from the rear after a month of that.
Sure, women have 1/10th the testosterone of men (.25 mg produced daily
compared to 2.5-11 mg in men) so small amounts mean more and cause much
more drastic results. Increasing blood test by 2.5 mg may only double a
man's production but it is 10X what a woman normally makes.
Also, upper body (traps, delts) have a higher concentration of androgen
receptors than lower down (you actually see a distribution starting high
in upper body and decreasing as it goes down typically, which is why if
you don't have calves, you ain't gonna have calves, for teh most part).
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> --
> Scott Kurland
> Max effort squat/dead/GM Mondays
> Max effort bench/push press Wednesdays
> Tickets are available....
> "Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
> news:3AE71AF5...@onr.com...
> > It is physioloigically impossible to gain a lot of strength and muscle
> > in that short a time frame.
> >
> Muscle, maybe, but the first time I tried the EC stack the effect was pretty
> dramatic.
Yeah, 5-10% in the short term.
>Maybe I should add salt.
>
> For that matter, when my GF creatine-loaded it worked PDQ.
It's water, not real muscle. That was my point.
In a few days, you can't gain a 'hug eamount of muscle' at leats not if
you mean 'contractile muscle tissue'. YEah, shifts in water can be
massive (I"ve seen carb-ups put 10-17 lbs on folks in 3 days) but it's
not actual muscle. nothing that stays around anyhow.
Lyle
Patrick Arnold
effect like that. That is why i think Lyle would grow like a weed with
steroids
Lyle McDonald
Wanted to add, the companies of course, make sure that lifters don't
really know the difference between shifts in water (which shows up as
lean body mass) and actual gains in muscle. Kind of how most diet books
don't make the distinction between losing water, losing weight, and
losing fat.
But keeping your customers ignorant is a wonderful way for them not to
realize the scams you're selling them.
Not that I'm accusing anyone of doing that in this thread or anything,
nosireebob. Not in the bodybuilding industry, oh no. Certainly not
with certain subsets of products like creatine and most of the andro
products (nothing like a 10 lb water weight gain in 2 weeks to make
someone think your crap is working).
All a bunch of 100% honest folks there. Yeah, that's it.
Isn't it, Pat?
Lyle
Patrick Arnold
>
> Not that I'm accusing anyone of doing that in this thread or anything,
> nosireebob. Not in the bodybuilding industry, oh no. Certainly not
> with certain subsets of products like creatine and most of the andro
> products (nothing like a 10 lb water weight gain in 2 weeks to make
> someone think your crap is working).
>
> All a bunch of 100% honest folks there. Yeah, that's it.
> Isn't it, Pat?
>
You have it here in print people. Steroids do not work because they
only make you retain water. Or is it that the gains from prohormones
are unique from real steroids because they involve ONLY water, while
with real steroids the gains involve actual muscle growth as well.
Get some rest Lyle
Lester Long
> Also, upper body (traps, delts) have a higher concentration of androgen
> receptors than lower down (you actually see a distribution starting high
> in upper body and decreasing as it goes down typically, which is why if
> you don't have calves, you ain't gonna have calves, for teh most part).
>
> Lyle
Lyle, would spot injection then be useless, or more potent since the
receptor normally is underused?
Regards,
Lester
Sal C
:> : Sal C wrote:
:>
:> :> Lyle,
:> :> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
:> :> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
:>
:> : Adding.
:>
:> : CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
:> : ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
:> : So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
:>
:> You know I wish 1-AD was a powerful CNS stimulant, but it's not at all.
:> 4AD gives a better CNS kick, but doesn't effect muscle anabolism as well
: As well as what? 10 times zero is still zero, Sal.
As well as 1-AD, sheesh.
:> as 1-AD. And I've tried working out on Xenadrene, but strength gains on that
:> pale in comparison to 1-AD.
: So what have your gains been? Just curious. How do they compare to
: your gains pre-1AD? What else about your traijning and/or diet did you
: change when you went on the AD? Are you more attentive to your diet,
: does knowing you're taking it make you train harder?
My gains on 1-AD are comparable to, if not better than when I did 800mg
deca per week. Before 1-AD, I could do 3 reps with 225 on the bench.
Immediately after that I would do incline bench press, but could, at best,
only do 4-5 reps with 185lbs. After 1-AD, I was able to do 9-10 @225lbs
on the bench press, followed by incline bp: 10 reps with 205lbs,
followed by 6 reps with 225LBS.i (actually I did more sets than that, but
I'm not counting the puny warmups)
: What else about your traijning and/or diet did you
: change when you went on the AD? Are you more attentive to your diet,
: does knowing you're taking it make you train harder?
Actually I was dieting :). Before and after 1-AD. I changed nothing
with respect to my training. I actually got a little sloppy
and started going to the gym *less* often. And, while I do
get your point about the placebo effect, I was expecting that.
however I was not expecting it to works as well as 'real'
anabolics such as nandrolone. If 1-ad is just placebo,
then it's one hell of a placebo, giving me better
strength gains than deca. Can your seawater do that?
:>
:> : Also, I'll be real curious to see how much of that newfound strnegth you
:> : KEEP when you go off.
:>
:> Strawman argument, Lyle and you know it. Unless proper precautions are taken
:> when doing deca or test, the same thing will happen. Are they "fairy dust" too
?
: The gains stay if you taper off right. But the fact is that, frequently
: the gains don't stay. So what IS the fucking point? With proper
: training and nutrition, you keep the gains because you're not
: artifically elevating them. But hey, you wanna piss money away on
: something, it's not my place to convince you otherwise, it's your
: fucking money.
The point is that you've been claiming that 1-AD doesn't do jack-shit.
Now you're changing it to the gains being temporary. Please make up
your mind. If you want to state that *all* anabolics in your head
are pointless because the gains are transitory, that's fine.
But! you must include 1-AD in that list, consistently.
Besides, aren't gains made during proper training and nutrition
temporary as well, if one stops training and starts eating crap?
(muscle memory not withstanding)
: Tell, me, Sal, waht the fuck is the point of it? Is being big and
: strong taht important to your ego for you to piss that type of money
: away? Actually, I already know the answer: it is or you wouldn't be
: defending your choice to adamantly.
I have no desire to be super-big and strong, just to be very fit
for my age group (40's). 1-AD has helped me achieve that better than
anything else.
: Because putting effort to increase your bench is hard, taking fairy dust
: is the easy way out. I consdier steroids the easy way out too, unless
: you have a very specific reason (such as wanting to comepete in
: bodybuilding) for doing so. But for the average fuck to do so, so he
: can be big and strong or wahtever is retarded to me. But most people
: are insecure little dimwits, especailly those who go into bodybuilding.
So lyle, if you feel that way about bodybuilders, what are
you doing in a bb group?
This isn't alt.androgen.challenged.geeks.with.small.arms..
Oh I see, hanging out in a bb group makes you feel superior to all
the idiots and average fucks who come here. Work on your
self-esteem Lyle.
:> : Lemme know, Sal.
:> Sure. I plan on taking clomid and hcg after wards.
: Well, that makes it real relevant to the rest of us.
: Except that you're probably kiddin.
I'm not kiddin. You asked me how much strength
I'd keep afterwards, I told what measures I'd take
to ensure maximal keeping of gains.
--sal
: Lyle
Lyle McDonald
How do you figure underused? Even at low testosterone concentrations,
the androgen receptors are typically saturated. So that's not the issue
at stake here. It's simply that a lower androgen receptor density in
that area means less of an anabolic response for any given amount of
testosterone or other drug taht works through teh androgen receptor.
What area are you talking about anyhow?
I assume calves but wanna make sure.
Lyle
Scott K.
Leverage?
Lyle McDonald
>
> I was referring to 20# jumps in a bunch of lifts, not weight gain, sorry.
> Leverage?
Hydration increases leverages by leaps and bounds so yes.
The controlled studies generally show no increase in 1RM with creatine
loading, which makes sense. OUtside of increased leverage, increasing
energy stores shouldn't increase 1RM. To do that you have to increase
muscle cross sectional area or neural drive, and creatine doesn't do either.
But hyperhydrate yourself and you get an effect. Folks be strong after
CKD type carb-ups.
Lyle
Ed Sturm
> OH Ed, you were not around here for the infamous Lyle DNP experiment
> about 5 years ago were you?
No, I wasn't. Do tell.
Garrett M. Shepherd
> Dale Jung wrote:
> >
> > On a completely different note has anyone ever tried just taking one
pill?
> > I'm a teenager so I'm not concidering taking 1-AD even though I'm 5"11
and
> > have stopped growing. But a couple weeks ago my curiosity got the better
of
> > me so I took one pill with a meal. I gained alot of strength and my
muscle
> > were hooooge, i mean i could REALLY tell the difference. About 4 days
later
> > the effect was gone, wanting to test if it was some kind of placebo
effect i
> > than took another pill about a week later, once again alot of muscle
gain(i
> > could tell it wasn't bloating) even with a little workout. The effects
once
> > again wore off in 4 days. And that has been my 1-ad experiance. Did i
have a
> > strong reaction to 1-ad or is that normal?
> >
>
> You had an exceptionally strong placebo effect
say that they are completely different, but are they?
--
Garrett M. Shepherd
President, In Shape Online
gar...@inshapeonline.com
www.inshapeonline.com
Kev
"Ed Sturm" <eds...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nLKF6.1235$eG1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3AE730CD...@ix.netcom.com...
> > OH Ed, you were not around here for the infamous Lyle DNP experiment
> > about 5 years ago were you?
>
> No, I wasn't. Do tell.
Several years ago around the time that Lyle was collecting training /
dieting logs for the Ketogenic Diet, he was the first of us to try DNP for
fat loss. He took pretty good records of his actions and results. The
verdict: The stuff was miserable and worked marginally well at the doses he
was taking. An interesting little study. Nothing really bad came of it,
but how can you knock any product (1-AD) for unconfirmed safety reasons when
you're willing to try something that could (and is scientifically proven to
be able to) potentially push your body temp up to 110F and cook your brain?
A contradiction of sorts.
Kev
August Pamplona
Youthful indiscretion?
August Pamplona
--
"Today, at the dawn of the 21st century, the global village is finally
complete. At last it has a global village idiot."
--some article at The Guardian (20, Jan., 2001 )
a.a. # 1811
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'
>
> Kev
Seth Breidbart
>Actually I was dieting :). Before and after 1-AD. I changed nothing
>with respect to my training. I actually got a little sloppy
>and started going to the gym *less* often.
Some people would claim that the extra rest is the cause of your
increased strength.
(I don't want to get into that fight again today, just pointing it
out.)
Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
djr
Ed Sturm wrote:
>
> "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> news:9c714j$v0k$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@onr.com> wrote in message
> > news:3AE7033E...@onr.com...
> >
> > >I have zero interest in taking anything that has
> > > zero human safety data or any informaion on potential long term effects.
> > > Just because you're too retarded to think about taht type of thing (and
> > > Pat has no data).
> >
> > Correct me if my memory fails, but wasn't it you that hopped on DNP a few
> > years ago when DD and PA were first talking about it?
>
> If this is true, and I think it is because I've seen Lyel mention having
> extra DNP, this makes Lyle the biggest fucking hypocrite this group has ever
> seen. How the hell can someone who has ever used DNP try to get a point
> across about not wanting to use 1AD because it "might not" be safe.
>
Because it fits his agenda.
djr
Kev
"August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> Youthful indiscretion?
Perhaps Lyle taking DNP was youthful indiscretions. God knows I've made my
share of THOSE decisions..... Lyle, don't you have to be youthful for it to
be considered 'youthful' indiscretion? :-)
Kev
Steve Gallagher
>
> Steve Gallagher wrote:
> >
> > Sal C wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Pat,
> > > what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
> >
> > not to agree with those reasons, but they're his.
>
> What were my reasons again, Steve?
> Be curious to hear waht they are from someone else.
> Not flaming, just curious what you think they are.
> I'll absolutely tell you if they're right, but I'll equally tell you if
> they're not.
My own suspicions on the subject is that you've got a vague "tingly bad
feeling"
about anything that manipulates the "hormonal milieu" ($1 to you for
that
phrase, btw :). This explains why you're OK with doing ECA like a mad
speed-freak buzz-monkey (and I say that as a compliment, to be sure :).
One
other factor that I "suspect" but am less 100% sure about is the
posibility
that you've picked up a bit of "religion" from Stuart re: supplements.
I know you wrote (write?) for HG, and you've referred to Stuart as your
friend
more than once. That HG mindset, where "natural = milk, squats, and
sleep"
has to have wormed its way at least a little bit into your synapses over
the years you've been associated with the HG crowd.
Me, I spent the my 20's doing speed on a daily basis. Most people have a
wakeup
cuppa joe or a wakeup ciggie; I'd have a wakeup line. Have one right
before
bed time, for that matter, and still sleep (can you say "chronic adrenal
exhaustion"?). So from my perspective, there ain't much that folks like
PA
can cook up in their laboratories (must pronounce this "laBORRRatories"
to get
the proper eeevil effect) that I'm all that concerned about putting in
my
body. Especially given my n=1 assessment that the stuff "works", with
"works"
being defined in a number of ways for me (body repartitioning and
libido, prmarily).
Hence my position is, "natural = legal". I do know for a fact that,
while
I have no ethical or other qualms about AAS (except I don't like
needles), there's
that whole Class III felony thing. Don't fancy being someone's
girlfriend for
5 to 10 years.
So, are my theories re: your motivations even remotely close?
--
"Links, zwo! Links, zwo! Links, zwo, drei, vier! Links!"
Rammstein, "Links 2 3 4"
Big Lee
"experimentation".
Steve Gallagher
>
> Also, upper body (traps, delts) have a higher concentration of androgen
> receptors than lower down (you actually see a distribution starting high
> in upper body and decreasing as it goes down typically, which is why if
> you don't have calves, you ain't gonna have calves, for teh most part).
So if my wee wee little brain is grasping this science stuff correctly,
someone doing a cycle of, say, AAS, would expect to see more "results"
in the upper body, all things being equal?
Steve Gallagher
>
> Sal C wrote:
> >
> > Lyle McDonald <lyl...@onr.com> wrote:
> > : Sal C wrote:
> >
> > :> Lyle,
> > :> with 1-AD there are no water gains whatsoever, but your
> > :> strength will go thru the roof within 2-3 weeks,
> >
> > : Adding.
> >
> > : CNS stimulants tend to do that and andrognes are potent CNS stimuluants.
> > : ephedrine will increase strength by 5-10% with a single dose.
> > : So I need not Pat's magic fairy dust.
> >
> > You know I wish 1-AD was a powerful CNS stimulant, but it's not at all.
> > 4AD gives a better CNS kick, but doesn't effect muscle anabolism as well
> > as 1-AD. And I've tried working out on Xenadrene, but strength gains on that
> > pale in comparison to 1-AD.
> >
>
> I am not sure, but i think alot of the perceived stimulant effect from
> androgens is associated with aromatazition in the CNS. I know that alot
> of the libido stimulation is
Hey. Whatever. All I know is, I like it! ;)
Kev
"Steve Gallagher" <jeng_...@NOmsn.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:3AE81FAC...@NOmsn.SPAMcom...
>there's
> that whole Class III felony thing. Don't fancy being someone's
> girlfriend for
> 5 to 10 years.
Would you settle being someone's girlfriend for 5 or 10 minutes? He so
sexy....
Kev
<ah...@no-spam-to-world.std.com> wrote in message
news:sodu23b...@world.std.com...
> Well, looking for contradictions over such time periods is fine,
> but it is not necessarily hypocrisy. One can change one's mind.
I'm by no means judging his decision. I totally agree with you. Hell, I
used to be a heavy smoker, but as when I found out that cigarettes didn't
really have 100% of your RDA for Vitamins A, B and D plus zinc, I kicked the
habit.
Kev
Steve Gallagher
>
> Pat, isn't it safe to say that Prohormones are mild steroids? Lyle wants to
> say that they are completely different, but are they?
I don't think any rational person denies that prohormones (certainly, at
least
the 4-diols) meet 2 of the 3 criteria:
1. it is chemically a steroid (even my wife twigged to that one, and
started
referring to my "testosterone boosting supplement" as "that steroid
stuff you
take". ;)
2. Must convert to testosterone or nandrolone in the bloodstream.
Here's the kicker, the one that the jury is still out on:
3. is anabolic, causes muscle growth.
I honestly don't think EITHER side in this thing (the supp industry or
the Feds) want to discover that #3 is true. Because if that is found to
be true, then the Feds, under the law, MUST act and remove it from the
market. That, IMHO, is why no one is funding any serious studies to see
what HIGH doses of this stuff does in that area. And wisely so.
Patrick Arnold
For you hetero dudes out there, this does NOT include another man's
semen!!
Patrick Arnold
>
> Well, looking for contradictions over such time periods is fine,
> but it is not necessarily hypocrisy. One can change one's mind.
>
I take it you were a Clinton / Gore supporter?
Lyle McDonald
>
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >
> > Steve Gallagher wrote:
> > >
> > > Sal C wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Pat,
> > > > what do you think of this: Give lyle 2-3 bottles of 1-AD.
> > >
> > > Lyle doesn't do prohormones. His choice, his reasons. I happen
> > > not to agree with those reasons, but they're his.
> >
> > What were my reasons again, Steve?
> > Be curious to hear waht they are from someone else.
> > Not flaming, just curious what you think they are.
> > I'll absolutely tell you if they're right, but I'll equally tell you if
> > they're not.
>
> My own suspicions on the subject is that you've got a vague "tingly bad
> feeling"
> about anything that manipulates the "hormonal milieu" ($1 to you for
> that
> phrase, btw :).
Not in the least. I'm all for manipulating hormones if you can do it safely.
> This explains why you're OK with doing ECA like a mad
> speed-freak buzz-monkey (and I say that as a compliment, to be sure :).
> One
> other factor that I "suspect" but am less 100% sure about is the
> posibility
> that you've picked up a bit of "religion" from Stuart re: supplements.
Not in thye least. I'm all for supplements taht actually have real
world data and work.
> I know you wrote (write?) for HG, and you've referred to Stuart as your
> friend
> more than once. That HG mindset, where "natural = milk, squats, and
> sleep"
> has to have wormed its way at least a little bit into your synapses over
> the years you've been associated with the HG crowd.
That's 95% of the battle. Certain supplements can play a role and can
be useful at the high end of sports. But I'm not an anti-supplement
freak like the rest.
Especially given my n=1 assessment that the stuff "works", with
> "works"
> being defined in a number of ways for me (body repartitioning and
> libido, prmarily).
> Hence my position is, "natural = legal". I do know for a fact that,
> while
> I have no ethical or other qualms about AAS (except I don't like
> needles), there's
> that whole Class III felony thing. Don't fancy being someone's
> girlfriend for
> 5 to 10 years.
>
> So, are my theories re: your motivations even remotely close?
Nope.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >
> > Also, upper body (traps, delts) have a higher concentration of androgen
> > receptors than lower down (you actually see a distribution starting high
> > in upper body and decreasing as it goes down typically, which is why if
> > you don't have calves, you ain't gonna have calves, for teh most part).
>
> So if my wee wee little brain is grasping this science stuff correctly,
> someone doing a cycle of, say, AAS, would expect to see more "results"
> in the upper body, all things being equal?
Look at Arnold and the guys of his time period.
Huge upper body, shitty legs (except Platz). Thoise guys all squatted
like crazy and their legs still sucked.
Ask anyone who does even a short cycle of androgens, they shoulder
girdle blows up rapidly. Hell, folks who do andro-spray report the same
but it all goes away when they come off.
Lyle
Patrick Arnold
steroids. He looks at some recent studies, and yes it does show that
roids cause a disproportionate amount of hypertrophy in upper body areas
Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
long time after cessation of usage.
And you CANNOT say that prohormones are different, because they
absolutely fall into the same category as anabolic androgenic steroids.
Gains from prohormones (and many people do get legitimate gains) will be
qualitatively the same as for the real thing.
So basically the evidence is CLEAR, that the gains you get from
prohormones are in large part muscle, and that you do NOT lose all of
these gains after you stop.
End of story Lyle, unless you can counter these studies and rational
conclusions with anything but hysteria, misconception, and prejudice
(which is all you have going for you in this particular argument)
--
Patrick Arnold
You are right on Steve, neither the feds (most of them) nor us want to
see this last one proven.
Lyle McDonald
Sheesh, pay attention folks.
I was the first to admit that DNP was fucking dangerous as shit and I
would NEVER recommend that ANYONE do it. I took it as a personal
experiment and would NEVER do it again. Because it's too dangerous and
not healthy in the long-term.
Contrast that to what's written above.
You all really need to learn some fucking reading comprehension.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
I was young, I was stupid.
I'm not young anymore.
I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
Whichi is fundametnally 100% different than my attitude towardsa Pat's
stuff which he expects (or knows) people to take long term without an
ounce of safety data.
Hell, I at least knew the safety risks of DNP, Pat can't even say what
they might be for his stuff.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
experiment. Compare and contrast (I know that requires thought which is
ahrd and stuff) to what I said about Pat's stuff.
You all need to work on your fucking reading comprehension because
you're all idiots for comparing the two.
Lyle
***
Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
DNP experience.
Now, before I start, a caveat: I am in no way endorsing the use of this
potentially deadly chemical to anybody. I used it because:
1. I'm a guinea pig
b. I'm fucking stupid and self-destructive right now over a recent
relationship that ended a week or two ago (it's a long ass story but
for 4 weeks I was dating an exotic dancer who's martial arts instructor,
bodybuilders, could stomp yours truly into the ground ex-boyfriend I
work with. Like I said, a long story)
c. I had some and didn't want to let it go to waste
DNP can fucking kill you. The side effects range from bad to worse.
Duchaine is suggesting combining it with insulin making this stack
potentially the most dangerous in the world of bodybuilding as either
chemical can kill you with one fuckup. DO NOT TAKE DNP LIGHTLY OR
AS A JOKE. If you have any doubts or concerns about taking it, do me
a favor, DON'T. This isn't a game.
Bryce
had some peculilar qualities. I asked and its called "penta-hydrate".
I have friend who sells it in his store.
--
Bryce Lane
http://b_movie.tripod.com
Oranthal Juice Simpsons
>
> Youthful indiscretion?
>
Who the f*)!$@ cares? Everyone on this newsgroup including you & myself
are all fucking morons. Fuck EVERYONE!!
-OJ
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Patrick Arnold
>
> Kev wrote:
> >
> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > > Youthful indiscretion?
> >
> > Perhaps Lyle taking DNP was youthful indiscretions. God knows I've made my
> > share of THOSE decisions..... Lyle, don't you have to be youthful for it to
> > be considered 'youthful' indiscretion? :-)
>
> I was young, I was stupid.
> I'm not young anymore.
> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
Dave is 100% right Lyle, you change your story every time it fits your
agenda.
>
> Whichi is fundametnally 100% different than my attitude towardsa Pat's
> stuff which he expects (or knows) people to take long term without an
> ounce of safety data.
>
> Hell, I at least knew the safety risks of DNP, Pat can't even say what
> they might be for his stuff.
>
> Lyle
--
Patrick Arnold
>
> Pat, I think you were the one I was telling about some bottled water that
> had some peculilar qualities. I asked and its called "penta-hydrate".
>
??
Sal C
: Lyle McDonald wrote:
:>
:> Kev wrote:
:> >
:> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
:> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
:> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
:> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
:> >
:> > > Youthful indiscretion?
:>
:> I was young, I was stupid.
:> I'm not young anymore.
:> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
:> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
: BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
: YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
: IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
: Dave is 100% right Lyle, you change your story every time it fits your
: agenda.
He sure as hell does. And when he can't change it any longer,
he just refuses to post a reply. When I confronted him with
my experience using 1-AD, he started dancing all over the place.
He went from:
- pro-hormones are as useful as saltwater
to:
- Okay, but the strength gains are temporary
to:
- What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
What a fuckhead....
--sal
:>
:> Whichi is fundametnally 100% different than my attitude towardsa Pat's
gps
Why would you expect the long term effects of pro h to be any different
than steroids?
ps
Patrick Arnold
> He sure as hell does. And when he can't change it any longer,
> he just refuses to post a reply. When I confronted him with
> my experience using 1-AD, he started dancing all over the place.
> He went from:
> - pro-hormones are as useful as saltwater
> to:
> - Okay, but the strength gains are temporary
> to:
> - What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
>
> What a fuckhead....
Lyle has made it clear to me and others that he has BIG ambitions in the
supplement industry. He expects to develop supplements and get paid for
them. He is reportedly ready to "ink a deal" in his own words, with a
big supplement company.
Well I just can't fucking wait. Because if he ever comes out with some
product(s), you can be damn sure he will be subject to the same
criticism and attacks that he levels on me and my prohormones. We will
see just what human testing, toxicity testing, real world effects, etc
his stuff has behind it. If he thinks a supplement company is going to
invest, or can even afford to invest, in ANY of this expensive testing
shit for an unproven product he is in for a rude awakening. Oh he will
learn fast how the real world operates.
Of course, none of this will probably ever come to fruition because his
psychological instability will keep him from ever having a businessman
invest any trust in him. So he will probably just continue to be a mfw
troll, and little more, for the rest of his pathetic life
Steve Gallagher
I feel so ... so.... so *wrong*, somehow ....
;)
Kev
> b. I'm fucking stupid and self-destructive right now over a recent
> relationship that ended a week or two ago (it's a long ass story but
> for 4 weeks I was dating an exotic dancer who's martial arts instructor,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What was his name again? :-)
Kev
Kev
"Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3AE8497C...@ix.netcom.com...
> Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
> these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
> steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> long time after cessation of usage.
Muscle cells are multi-nucleic. The more you lift, the more nuclei the
cells develop to control the contraction of their new found size. When you
take steroids, the new nuclei don't always have time to develop. If you
stop taking the steroids in an incorrect fashion, the new nuclei never
develop and the cells shrink back to a size that is manageable by the nuclei
that they have. On the other hand if you stop lifting when you are huge and
you shrink to normal size, when you start lifting again, these nuclei are
already present, so you get big really quick (muscle memory). Steroids grow
muscle. Aromatization of steroids produces estrogen. Estrogen causes
edema. Edema goes away. Muscle stays if you keep working it out, eat a ton
of protein, and do something to counter estrogen rise / test drop upon
cessation of test supplementation. (BTW, I'm not telling you this Pat; you
already know. I'm reinforcing what you said).
Kev
Kev
"Oranthal Juice Simpsons" <oj_sim...@fnord.yahoo.com-spam> wrote in
message news:slrn9egk0c.224...@spread.infobutter.com...
> Who the f*)!$@ cares? Everyone on this newsgroup including you & myself
> are all fucking morons. Fuck EVERYONE!!
Yoooo. Someone needs a little trip to the padded room.....Don't crack, OJ
(too late, double murder). :-)
Kev
Patrick Holt
>> I'm not young anymore.
>> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
>> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
>
>BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
>YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
Pat, I dont think Lyle said that he was GOING TO take the stuff to cause
apoptosis, only that he KNEW HOW to do it. Big difference.
Patrick
"Do you ever wonder what life might have been like if you had recieved enough
oxygen at birth?" T. Boren
Lyle McDonald
I personally wouldn't.
But nobody can say for sure.
That's all I'm saying.
Because, unlike Pat, I'm not going to play a game where I extrapolate
one set of data (positive effects) from steroids to prohormones and not
extrapolate the other (safety profile). Can't have it both ways.
Knowing taht prohormones don't have anywhere close to the positive
effects of steroids (body comp, etc), it'd be totally unfair for me to
claim taht they have anywhere close to the same safety profile. They
may or they may not, without data, anything I'd say would be wrong.
And, unlike Pat, I won't make claims without at least some type of
reasonable human data.
That is, I won't play both sides against the middle. If prohormones
work as well as steroids, they likely have the same safety issues. If
thye don't (and they don't and we all fucking know it), it'd be bullshit
for me to claim that they have the same safety issues.
My point all along was simply that Pat has zero safety data either way,
and it's negligent as fuck to bring a product that is *supposedly*
affecting metabolism so strongly to market without it.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : Lyle McDonald wrote:
> :>
> :> Kev wrote:
> :> >
> :> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
> :> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> :> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> :> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
> :> >
> :> > > Youthful indiscretion?
> :> >
> :>
> :> I was young, I was stupid.
> :> I'm not young anymore.
> :> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> :> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
>
> : BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
> : YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
> : IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
It's no less dangerous and I admitted it upfront.
My point, patrick, that you can't fucking understand, is that the ONLY
person I have the right to risk the health of is ME.
Not a fucking neighborhood cat, not a bunch of idiot bodybuilders.
ME.
So if anyone dies, it'll be me.
CAn your feeble brain understand that.
>
> : Dave is 100% right Lyle, you change your story every time it fits your
> : agenda.
>
> He sure as hell does. And when he can't change it any longer,
> he just refuses to post a reply. When I confronted him with
> my experience using 1-AD, he started dancing all over the place.
> He went from:
> - pro-hormones are as useful as saltwater
> to:
> - Okay, but the strength gains are temporary
Assuming there are gains, yes they are temporary. Just like with
creatine and a host of other stuff.
> to:
> - What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
I didn't say the last one at all. YOu need to learn to motherfucking
read better.
>
> What a fuckhead....
so killfile me and be done with it. fuck don't read it and then bitch.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> "Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3AE8497C...@ix.netcom.com...
>
> > Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
> > these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
> > steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> > after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> > muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> > long time after cessation of usage.
What myths Pat? I'm the first to agree that you can keep some of the
gains from long steroid cycles if you come off correctly. I totally
disagree with the belief that you lose ALL Teh gains.
It's the short term rapid gains that we both know are water.
Christ you're stupid. You and Sal C both need a primer in reading comprehension.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> >> I was young, I was stupid.
> >> I'm not young anymore.
> >> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> >> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
> >
> >BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
> >YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
>
> Pat, I dont think Lyle said that he was GOING TO take the stuff to cause
> apoptosis, only that he KNEW HOW to do it. Big difference.
I didn't even say that.
I do'nt know if it will work yet, I haven't made up my mind and have
more data to look at. if I get to the point where I think it will work,
I wil ltest it on myself so taht I'm the only one that gets hurt.
Only shitheads use neighborhood cats to test their products on.
I wonder what PETA would think about that, Pat (arnold)?
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>
> Sal C wrote:
> > He went from:
> > - pro-hormones are as useful as saltwater
They increase water weight, just like salt.
Yes, I said that.
> > to:
> > - Okay, but the strength gains are temporary
Technically, I asked you to let me know how much of that newfound
strength you kept after you went off. But you can't seem to read a
simple sentence so what should I fucking expect?
Beyond that, you have to show me that they are giving you better
strenght gains beyond what you could get without them. Because that's
ultimately what's at issue: do they give you better gains than you could
get with proper trianing and nutrition?
Because, as we all know, most people in the US use supplements instead
of good training and nutrition because most of them don't konw how to
train or eat for optimal gains.
that may not describe you, Sal, I have no idea.
But it describes more folks than it doesn't and you know it as well as I.
So does Pat which is why he sells his stuff to ego driven bodybuilders.
A bunch of crap to artifically raise their lifts and LBM (only while
they're on) to cover up the fact taht they don't train or eat worth a shit.
>
> Assuming there are gains, yes they are temporary. Just like with
> creatine and a host of other stuff.
And realize taht I feel the same way about all of those products under
most circumstances. I see no point in using them unless you have some
intention of competing. Unless you're ego is so poor taht the extra 10
lb of water retention makes you feel like a big man.
But that is just my feeling about it, what you waste your money on is
your fucking problem. I'd rather psend my money on porno and food
(becasue I know food improves my gains).
>
> > to:
> > - What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
>
> I didn't say the last one at all. YOu need to learn to motherfucking
> read better.
I said that I saw little point in using any product that provides
nothing but a bunch of short term gains *UNLESS* you intend to compete.
Because then it serves a purpose. If not, tell me what the extra few
pounds of size or 20 lbs on your bench really does.
How the fuck you got from that to bodybuilding is pointless is beyond
me. I think bodybuilding is a great activity. I personally see no
point in spending a ton of money a month on products that give you
nothing but small artificial gains in strength or mass.
Please learn to read or just killfile me or something. Christ on a stick.
Lyle
Patrick Arnold
I am not sure that all you just said is completely verified or not, but
it sounds nice and neat and does get the main message across
Lyle McDonald
>
> Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : Lyle McDonald wrote:
> :>
> :> Kev wrote:
> :> >
> :> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
> :> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> :> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> :> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
> :> >
> :> > > Youthful indiscretion?
> :> >
> :>
> :> I was young, I was stupid.
> :> I'm not young anymore.
> :> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> :> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
>
> : BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
> : YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
> : IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
As a final comment for those incapable of reading.
My comments about safety for Pat's prodcuts had to do with the LACK of
safety data, nothingm more nothing less. How folks turned this into
"Lyle doesn't take prohormones because they are dangerous" is beyond me
because I don't think I said that (if I did, fucking show me and I'll
admit I was wrong). That's not why I don't take them at all.
Pat has no safety data on his products. Not in humans using them for
long term (there is some limited short term data but not at the doses he
knows people are using).
It's negligent (and he knows it) to release anythign to the market
without it. Same as Cornholio with triax or usnic acid or whatever.
But Pat obviously doesn't care. Duchaine did the same thing, for which
I did not respect him. Releasing a product to the mass market without
safety data (or realizing taht the average dumbcfuck will use it
dangerously regardless of what you tell them) is negligent.
Fuck, believe me I know, I've done shit in the past where I made
recommendations (or didn't make strong enough recommendations against)
dietary patterns taht were potentially bad for folks. I regret doing it
and can only try not to do it again. Why nobody finds out about the fat
killer stuff until I've tested it on the one person who has a right to
get hurt: ME. And if it's not safe, I won't tell anybody about it
because I will NOT be responsible for someone getting sick (or dead)
because of my actions.
I've taken stuff that I knew was dangerous, and I'd do it again.
But only if I knew the risks ahead of time, and decided that the
potential benefits outweighed them.
Can you moronic motherfuckers follow what I'm saying here?
It's not an issue of me thinking Pat's products are dangerous or not.
They might not be, they might be, I have no idea and neither does Pat.
Which was my point in the first place, there is NO safety data either
way.
Even if they did have risks, IFF I felt that the benefits were still
greater, I'd use them.
But that was never my point anyway.
So can you all please learn to fucking read?
Or just killfile me or something.
Becaue I get tired of explaining what I consider fairly straightforward
English sentences over and over to people who are intent on reading my
words in the way that makes them the most upset.
Because if I meant to say "I don't take Pat's stuff because I think it's
dangerous", I assure you I woudl say that. I woudn't pussyfoot around
it and say "Pat has no safety data" and mean "I don't take it because."
christ, people today are just too dumb for me to even deal with sometimes.
basic reading comprehension is NOT that difficult but you idiots can't
even get that right.
Lyle
Patrick Arnold
>
> >> I was young, I was stupid.
> >> I'm not young anymore.
> >> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> >> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
> >
> >BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
> >YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
>
> Pat, I dont think Lyle said that he was GOING TO take the stuff to cause
> apoptosis, only that he KNEW HOW to do it. Big difference.
I am sure Lyle appreciates your ever loyal support Patrick, but you be
wrong on this one
Patrick Arnold
Am I hearing this correctly? Cuz that is exactly what you have been
doing with prohormones
> Knowing taht prohormones don't have anywhere close to the positive
> effects of steroids (body comp, etc)
Prohormones are steroids
, it'd be totally unfair for me to
> claim taht they have anywhere close to the same safety profile. They
> may or they may not, without data, anything I'd say would be wrong.
> And, unlike Pat, I won't make claims without at least some type of
> reasonable human data.
>
What claims that I made are you specifically talking about? C'mon, lets
finish what you started here
> That is, I won't play both sides against the middle. If prohormones
> work as well as steroids, they likely have the same safety issues. If
> thye don't (and they don't and we all fucking know it), it'd be bullshit
> for me to claim that they have the same safety issues.
Maybe we are getting somewhere with lyle. I think i see a little
flicker of rational thought deep in his brain. Nobody move now, lest it
blow out
>
> My point all along was simply that Pat has zero safety data either way,
> and it's negligent as fuck to bring a product that is *supposedly*
> affecting metabolism so strongly to market without it.
>
No, that was not your point all along. Your point has vacillated wildly
every time you have been shot down in this argument. Just like the old
Bill Roberts style. But at least you are making *some* progress, so i
will cut you some slack
Patrick Arnold
>
> Sal C wrote:
> >
> > Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > : Lyle McDonald wrote:
> > :>
> > :> Kev wrote:
> > :> >
> > :> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
> > :> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> > :> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> > :> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
> > :> >
> > :> > > Youthful indiscretion?
> > :> >
> > :>
> > :> I was young, I was stupid.
> > :> I'm not young anymore.
> > :> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
> > :> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
> >
> > : BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
> > : YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
> > : IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
>
> It's no less dangerous and I admitted it upfront.
> My point, patrick, that you can't fucking understand, is that the ONLY
> person I have the right to risk the health of is ME.
>
Lyle,
How can anyone EVER understand your point when you change it evertime I
make an ass out of you?
> Not a fucking neighborhood cat, not a bunch of idiot bodybuilders.
> ME.
> So if anyone dies, it'll be me.
> CAn your feeble brain understand that.
>
> >
> > : Dave is 100% right Lyle, you change your story every time it fits your
> > : agenda.
> >
> > He sure as hell does. And when he can't change it any longer,
> > he just refuses to post a reply. When I confronted him with
> > my experience using 1-AD, he started dancing all over the place.
> > He went from:
> > - pro-hormones are as useful as saltwater
> > to:
> > - Okay, but the strength gains are temporary
>
> Assuming there are gains, yes they are temporary. Just like with
> creatine and a host of other stuff.
>
Lyle, well designed studies on steroids have shown that this is not
true. So you are flat out wrong
> > to:
> > - What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
>
> I didn't say the last one at all. YOu need to learn to motherfucking
> read better.
>
> >
> > What a fuckhead....
>
> so killfile me and be done with it. fuck don't read it and then bitch.
YOu ought to stop putting you foot in your mouth Lyle
Sal C
: that may not describe you, Sal, I have no idea.
Is this really Lyle? Sounds too nice...
:> > to:
:> > - What's the fucking point of bodybuilding
:>
:> I didn't say the last one at all. YOu need to learn to motherfucking
:> read better.
Okay, it's definetly Lyle....
In another post you wrote:
"Tell, me, Sal, waht the fuck is the point of it? Is being big and
strong taht important to your ego for you to piss that type of money
away? Actually, I already know the answer: it is or you wouldn't be
defending your choice to adamantly."
The way your sentence is structured it appears tha your are saying
what is the point of being big and strong. In otherwords,
what's the point of being a bb. So what is "it" referring to?
: Please learn to read or just killfile me or something. Christ on a stick.
I'm not going to killfile you. This is too much fun..
--sal
: Lyle
Patrick Arnold
>
> Kev wrote:
> >
> > "Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > news:3AE8497C...@ix.netcom.com...
> >
> > > Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
> > > these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
> > > steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> > > after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> > > muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> > > long time after cessation of usage.
>
> What myths Pat? I'm the first to agree that you can keep some of the
> gains from long steroid cycles if you come off correctly. I totally
> disagree with the belief that you lose ALL Teh gains.
Now this? Can you fucking BELIEVE this guy? I am utterly
speechless!!!!!
Sal C
: Lyle McDonald wrote:
:>
:> Kev wrote:
:> >
:> > "Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
:> > news:3AE8497C...@ix.netcom.com...
:> >
:> > > Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
:> > > these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
:> > > steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
:> > > after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
:> > > muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
:> > > long time after cessation of usage.
:>
:> What myths Pat? I'm the first to agree that you can keep some of the
:> gains from long steroid cycles if you come off correctly. I totally
:> disagree with the belief that you lose ALL Teh gains.
: Now this? Can you fucking BELIEVE this guy? I am utterly
: speechless!!!!!
Easy Pat, it seems as if he's conveniently differentiating steroids
from pro-hormones. You just can't pin that guy on one argument...
Hey Lyle! That's what you meant, right? My reading comprehension
is too poor...
: --
Patrick Arnold
>
> Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> : Lyle McDonald wrote:
> :>
> :> Kev wrote:
> :> >
> :> > "Patrick Arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> :> > news:3AE8497C...@ix.netcom.com...
> :> >
> :> > > Also, Lyle McDonald should absolutely read Brainums article because
> :> > > these studies blow some myths completely out of the water. Namely, that
> :> > > steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> :> > > after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> :> > > muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> :> > > long time after cessation of usage.
> :>
> :> What myths Pat? I'm the first to agree that you can keep some of the
> :> gains from long steroid cycles if you come off correctly. I totally
> :> disagree with the belief that you lose ALL Teh gains.
>
> : Now this? Can you fucking BELIEVE this guy? I am utterly
> : speechless!!!!!
> Easy Pat, it seems as if he's conveniently differentiating steroids
> from pro-hormones. You just can't pin that guy on one argument...
>
> Hey Lyle! That's what you meant, right? My reading comprehension
> is too poor...
>
Lyle says that he has no problem admitting he is wrong when he is
wrong. So if he says that the BS he has been spouting about prohormones
was wrong, then I will be happy to just stop antagonizing him. Cuz this
is getting old
Michael Kelly Larsen
> > >
> > > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote
> > in
> > > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
> > > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > > Youthful indiscretion?
> > >
> > my
> > > share of THOSE decisions..... Lyle, don't you have to be youthful for it
> > to
> > > be considered 'youthful' indiscretion? :-)
> > >
> > "experimentation".
>
> For you hetero dudes out there, this does NOT include another man's
> semen!!
Ummmmm...... Pat? Do you have something you want to
share with the class *B^)?
<G, D, RLH!!!>
--MKL
Patrick Holt
>> >YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
>>
>> Pat, I dont think Lyle said that he was GOING TO take the stuff to cause
>> apoptosis, only that he KNEW HOW to do it. Big difference.
>
>I am sure Lyle appreciates your ever loyal support Patrick, but you be
>wrong on this one
I do remember reading the post in question. It was from a few days ago, so go
back and do a search to enlighten all of us.
Ga...@gate.com
wrote:
>Sal C wrote:
>>
>> Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> : Lyle McDonald wrote:
>> :>
>> :> Kev wrote:
>> :> >
>> :> > "August Pamplona" <necatoramericanusa...@mail.com> wrote in
>> :> > message news:W8NF6.2092$64.14...@ratbert.tds.net...
>> :> > > "Kev" <no...@as.of.yet.com> wrote in message
>> :> > > news:tef1np4...@corp.supernews.com...
>> :> >
>> :> > > Youthful indiscretion?
>> :> >
>> :>
>> :> I was young, I was stupid.
>> :> I'm not young anymore.
>> :> I was also very aware of the risks and very clear that it was dangerous,
>> :> stupid and I wouldn't recommend anybody take it.
>>
>> : BUT LYLE YOU JUST SAID THREE DAYS AGO THAT YOU ARE PLANNING ON INJECTING
>> : YOURSELF WITH AN UNTESTED CONCOCTION TO SEE IF IT KILLS YOUR FAT CELLS.
>> : IS THAT NOT ANY LESS DANGEROUS?
>
>It's no less dangerous and I admitted it upfront.
>My point, patrick, that you can't fucking understand, is that the ONLY
>person I have the right to risk the health of is ME.
>
No one is putting a gun to our heads.
>Not a fucking neighborhood cat, not a bunch of idiot bodybuilders.
>ME.
You are constantly referring to body builders or people that want to
get big as idiots. It is obvious you have a complex about people that
can get big. Sort of sad...
MJL
>steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
>after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
>muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
>long time after cessation of usage.
Bullshit. No one I know of who uses, some of whom know their shit, don't
deflate after stopping a heavy steroid cycle. I know this to be a fact
regardless of how many "studies" you can dig up to the contrary. But for the
hell of it let's have the references for these studies.
How much you wanna bet these studies were done un underweight men who got back
up to their natural weight and then managed to "maintain" that after going off
the juice?
>So basically the evidence is CLEAR, that the gains you get from
>prohormones are in large part muscle, and that you do NOT lose all of
>these gains after you stop.
Oh this is some of the worst crap you have spewed in a while.
>End of story Lyle, unless you can counter these studies
What studies? Post references for god's sake. Or are these more of those
"only presented at conferences" studies you like to talk about.
--
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Ed Sturm
"MJL" <jerts...@aol.comSpamcop> wrote in message
news:20010426220218...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
> >Namely, that
> >steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> >after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> >muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> >long time after cessation of usage.
>
> Bullshit. No one I know of who uses, some of whom know their shit, don't
> deflate after stopping a heavy steroid cycle. I know this to be a fact
> regardless of how many "studies" you can dig up to the contrary. But for
the
> hell of it let's have the references for these studies.
>
> How much you wanna bet these studies were done un underweight men who got
back
> up to their natural weight and then managed to "maintain" that after going
off
> the juice?
Mikey darling, I know numerous people who keep their gains. Of course there
is a bit of a rebound and some weight loss when ending a cycle but what is
lost is the water and bloat.
>
> >So basically the evidence is CLEAR, that the gains you get from
> >prohormones are in large part muscle, and that you do NOT lose all of
> >these gains after you stop.
>
> Oh this is some of the worst crap you have spewed in a while.
>
> >End of story Lyle, unless you can counter these studies
>
> What studies? Post references for god's sake. Or are these more of those
> "only presented at conferences" studies you like to talk about.
>
Just because you didn't keep your muscle (due in part because you have piss
poor genetics) doesn't mean that nobody else does.
--
Ed Sturm
Hard Bodies Discount Supplements
____________________________
http://www.hardbodiessupplements.com
http://www.hbsupplements.com
http://www.hbstores.com
http://www.edsturm.com
patrick arnold
>
> >Namely, that
> >steroids cause only water weight gain, and that the gain dissapears
> >after usage. On the contrary, the gains from cycles are MOSTLY pure
> >muscle, and much of these gains stick around to a large percentage for a
> >long time after cessation of usage.
>
> Bullshit. No one I know of who uses, some of whom know their shit, don't
> deflate after stopping a heavy steroid cycle. I know this to be a fact
> regardless of how many "studies" you can dig up to the contrary. But for the
> hell of it let's have the references for these studies.
This "Deflation" that you talk about is mostly due to water loss, and
not muscle. And I am also talking about relatively short term cycles
mike.
Now, people that you know who take large dosages for a year and
completely fuck their own systems up, naturally have a catastrophic
crash afterwards.
Da references are in the latest ironman at the end of Brainums article.
Its on the coffee table behind me but i be tired tonight, so tired
tonight
>
> How much you wanna bet these studies were done un underweight men who got back
> up to their natural weight and then managed to "maintain" that after going off
> the juice?
They were done on normal training men, that was the whole POINT of the
study
>
> >So basically the evidence is CLEAR, that the gains you get from
> >prohormones are in large part muscle, and that you do NOT lose all of
> >these gains after you stop.
>
> Oh this is some of the worst crap you have spewed in a while.
Mike, read the article before you react like this. I believe it because
it totally fits in with my experience with my first cycle, which was of
8 week duration and of moderate dosage. I got bigger and stronger and
basically kept my gains after my cycle. Now if you are talking about
subsequent usage for long periods of time and large dosages, now that is
soemthing else altogether. My mistake in not making that clear i guess
>
> >End of story Lyle, unless you can counter these studies
>
> What studies? Post references for god's sake. Or are these more of those
> "only presented at conferences" studies you like to talk about.
>
Shhh, relax Mike. Read the article, and keep an open mind
Seth Breidbart
Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Well, it was not necessarily meant to be a joke or a shot at Lyle. It
>was just based on objective observation of him. I would not be
>surprised if androgens helped stabilize his mood either. He might go
>from a bitchy girl type whiner to a more self assured and mature type
whiner.
(Sorry, Lyle, it was too good not to say.)
Seth
--
I can't tell you how irritating it is to hear a yankee say "y'all" to a single
person. I've had to kill several of them because of that. -- Watson Davis
Seth Breidbart
Patrick Arnold <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Bryce wrote:
>>
>> Pat, I think you were the one I was telling about some bottled water that
>> had some peculilar qualities. I asked and its called "penta-hydrate".
>
>??
A web search found the following nonsense. Does anybody want to try
to translate this into English?
} Penta-hydrate is great tasting, 100% pure, molecularly modified,
} super-oxygenated water which can help the high-end athlete looking for
} that extra edge, or the millions of people who want to feel better
} every day.
} Penta-hydrate's proprietary molecular form delivers oxygen quickly,
} directly where it is needed "in the cells", resulting in rapid
} re-hydration and a more efficient removal of toxins from the system.
} The water that we make is guaranteed to be free of ANY
} contaminants. The only thing you will find is water and oxygen. We
} begin with 100% pure distilled water and process it over two days to
} modify the structure of the H2O molecule clusters into a tetrahedral
} structure, similar to the structure of the water molecule clusters
} found in human cells. This creates a reduced water with a high
} leeching index and high osmotic drive, resulting in more efficient
} absorption at the cellular level, quicker re-hydration, more efficient
} removal of toxins, and faster delivery of O2 to the system
} Penta-hydrate contains molecularly modified pure water and oxygen,
} period. So the oxygen we add gets into your cells where it is used --
} and that's the idea.The addition of oxygen to our molecularly modified
} water creates a unique and highly stable solution of dissolved oxygen
} in water.
} The high osmotic drive and low surface tension of the H2O molecular
} clusters in Penta-hydrate can be rapidly absorbed by the body. Since
} our proprietary process already conforms the H2O clusters into a
} tetrahedral array similar to that of intra-cellular water, the body
} does not need to expend excess energy to further break down the water
} into the easily absorbed tetrahedral clusters (as is necessary with
} other commercially available bottled water). The easy absorption of
} water across the cell membrane creates hydroelectric energy, another
} byproduct of drinking water.
] Because of the structure of the water molecules-water consists of long
] chains of molecules-these long chains are not easily absorbable by the
] body. By analogy, it would be like trying to get an entire steak (or
] head of broccoli for vegetarians) into your body all at one time. The
] only way to get that broccoli (or steak) into your body is one bite at
] a time. Well, in nature, some three to five percent of water is in the
] form of a structure consisting of five molecules of H2O. This is the
] smallest possible cluster of water, and is called a pentamer. It is
] this molecular structure (the pentamer water molecule) that is most
] easily absorbable into the body. However, these pentamers bind to
] other pentamers, again creating large molecules. A scientific
] breakthrough has allowed a local company, Bio-hydration Research Labs,
] Inc., to dissolve five to ten times more of these single pentamer
] molecules into water. What does this mean to you? In the simplest
] sense, the smaller molecules get into your body much more easily than
] the larger ones, allowing your system to make better use of water.
It seems rather bogus to me.
Seth
--
Of course, common logic fails to hold up here on mfw, as a general rule
of thumb. -- Lyle McDonald
Ed Sturm
"patrick arnold" <parn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3AE8DD2D...@ix.netcom.com...
Mikey doesn't need to read articles; he knows everything.