Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
Indiana
I want to grow lean muscle and get rid of my belly/love handles.
I have never been consistent about weight lifting, but for the past 7
months I have been going to the gym religiously.
I have added a lot of proteins in my deit - egg whites, boneless
chicken breast. 100% WHEY Protein from GNC, 1% fat Milk, Fat Free
Yogurt.
I have eliminated my consumption of sugar (candies/ice creams, etc)
and fats(cookies,brownies/french fries, etc.)
I use canola oil for cooking, if I cook.
However, I take 2 servings of Feta cheese in a week, and 2 servings of
white rince in a week.
I eat whole grain bread, grain cereal.
A trainer told me that I have two competing goals:
1. Loose Belly vs. 2. Gain Lean Muscle Mass.
He suggested that I focus on loosing the belly fat first, and once I
loose that, then I should focus on gaining lean mass.
I have read on the Internet that Cardio is the way to loose the fat
around belly.
During a week, I workout 2 days then rest the 3rd day then work out 2
days.
1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles), followed by 1 hr weight lifting
(chest (bench press & push ups), biceps, shoulders (military press &
upright row), cable pull down.
2nd day: 45 minutes jog followed by 1 hr weight lifting
(leg extension, leg curls, triceps, upper back, squats)
I need some feedback/guidance on my workout routine:
Should I do the jog (cardio) the same day I lift weights?
If not, please advise?
Any other advice on diet and exercise is welcome.
Thanks
Donovan Rebbechi
> I am 33, 6'2", 180 lbs.
> I want to grow lean muscle and get rid of my belly/love handles.
All muscle is "lean".
> I have never been consistent about weight lifting, but for the past 7
> months I have been going to the gym religiously.
There's your problem. Become an atheist and you'll get better results.
> I have added a lot of proteins in my deit - egg whites, boneless
> chicken breast. 100% WHEY Protein from GNC, 1% fat Milk, Fat Free
GNC is expensive horseshit.
> A trainer told me that I have two competing goals:
> 1. Loose Belly vs. 2. Gain Lean Muscle Mass.
> He suggested that I focus on loosing the belly fat first, and once I
It's **** LOSE ****
> Any other advice on diet and exercise is welcome.
Keep doing exercise. Some jogging, and picking up heavy things. Eat what
you're already eating (except the GNC horseshit) And while you're at it, learn
to read and write at a junior high level or better, dammit!!!
It's as simple as that. Which is a good thing, for you.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
Karl Groves
"Indiana" <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com...
The "trainer" you mentioned is a moron.
First - lifting weights will cause an increase in lean muscle mass. The
body has one goal: to do everything as easily as it can. So, if you
repeatedly expect it to lift heavy things, it will become stronger (so that
lifting heavy things is easier for it). To get stronger, an increase in
lean muscle mass is required. Lift more weight, get stronger, gain lean
muscle.
Second - exercising expends energy. Fat is stored energy. If you expend more
energy than you take in, your body will utilize your energy reserves.
There's really nothing more to it than that. A lot of people try getting
"scientific" with bullshit about how long it takes during activity to switch
from burning sugars to burning fats and all that. Unless you're genetically
gifted and on your way to elite-level physical competition, ignore that
crap. Just friggin get in the gym and do it.
--
Karl Core
Link of the day: http://216.127.86.74/dubyaresume.com/
http://www.karlcore.com
http://www.usabilityinfo.com
http://www.murderthestupid.com
Lyle McDonald
Nope.
Lyle
Karl Groves
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
news:10hfdv0...@corp.supernews.com...
Like I said, we can get all geeky about it but the bottom line is that as
one gets stronger, muscle mass increases.
Is there a limit? Yes. Does muscle mass increase in direct proportion to
strength increase? No. But that's all nitpicky bullshit. For the OP, just a
regular guy trying to get fit, all he needs to know is the above.
-Karl
Lyle McDonald
Nope.
> Is there a limit? Yes. Does muscle mass increase in direct proportion to
> strength increase? No. But that's all nitpicky bullshit.
No it's not.
Lyle
Karl Groves
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
Are you going to offer an alternative argument or continue saying "Nope"?
-Karl
bc
Here's where Lyle should write, "Nope." :)
- bc
Lee Michaels
Hugh Beyer
@posting.google.com:
> I am 33, 6'2", 180 lbs.
> I want to grow lean muscle and get rid of my belly/love handles.
Keep the belly. It performs an important physiological function. The love
handles can go.
> I have never been consistent about weight lifting, but for the past 7
> months I have been going to the gym religiously.
God is good.
> I have added a lot of proteins in my deit - egg whites, boneless
> chicken breast.
Eat the bones, they add roughage.
> 100% WHEY Protein from GNC,
There are cheaper sources.
> 1% fat Milk, Fat Free Yogurt.
> I have eliminated my consumption of sugar (candies/ice creams, etc)
> and fats(cookies,brownies/french fries, etc.)
No you haven't, and a good thing, too. You may have reduced your
consumption of fats. You need some fat in your diet.
>
> I use canola oil for cooking, if I cook.
> However, I take 2 servings of Feta cheese in a week...
That Feta cheese blows the whole diet out of the water. Shoot yourself
now.
> and 2 servings of white rince in a week.
RINCE? You're eating RINCE? God, man, what are you thinking?
> I eat whole grain bread, grain cereal.
OK, with the above caveats this doesn't look too stupid, but you haven't
said anything about how MUCH of the above you're eating. You can either
count calories or just be really consistent, and reduce quantities until
you're losing pretty consistently each week.
>
> A trainer told me that I have two competing goals:
> 1. Loose Belly vs. 2. Gain Lean Muscle Mass.
> He suggested that I focus on loosing the belly fat first, and once I
> loose that, then I should focus on gaining lean mass.
Hey, a trainer passing out good advice. Halt the presses.
>
> I have read on the Internet that Cardio is the way to loose the fat
> around belly.
No, eating less than you expend in energy is the way to lose fat all over,
including around the belly. Cardio is one way to shift the equation in
your favor. Eating less is the another.
>
> During a week, I workout 2 days then rest the 3rd day then work out 2
> days.
May not be optimal, but may not be bad.
> 1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles), followed by 1 hr weight lifting
> (chest (bench press & push ups), biceps, shoulders (military press &
> upright row), cable pull down.
>
> 2nd day: 45 minutes jog followed by 1 hr weight lifting
> (leg extension, leg curls, triceps, upper back, squats)
Oh dear. You were doing so well. Go to
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html and pick out a decent routine from
the "workouts" section. Krista's got a couple of 2-day splits that make
sense (yours does not). I'd recommend the beginner's full-body routine
myself.
> I need some feedback/guidance on my workout routine:
> Should I do the jog (cardio) the same day I lift weights?
> If not, please advise?
Do your cardio AFTER the weightlifting or on your day off.
Hugh
--
No puppies were harmed in the creation of this post.
James
> Do your cardio AFTER the weightlifting or on your day off.
>
> Hug
My trainer told me that doing cardio while being on a weight gaining
program (low reps, high weights) is absolutely useless. The cardio
would burn the muscle tissues and you would not gain any muscle
volume. So if you do cardio after lifting weights is like filling a
balloon with water and afterwards letting the water out. As a result,
the balloon stays the same.
Donovan Rebbechi
>>
>> Do your cardio AFTER the weightlifting or on your day off.
>>
>> Hug
>
> My trainer told me that doing cardio while being on a weight gaining
> program (low reps, high weights) is absolutely useless.
It burns calories, therefore it's useful to people who are trying to lose
weight (that would be you, right ?)
> The cardio would burn the muscle tissues
This is incorrect.
> and you would not gain any muscle volume.
This is also generally incorrect. If you consume less calories than you expend,
you will not gain *weight* -- but you don't want to gain weight right now. Of
course not gaining weight makes it moderately harder to acquire lean mass, but
your primary goal is to lose weight.
> So if you do cardio after lifting weights is like filling a
> balloon with water and afterwards letting the water out. As a result,
> the balloon stays the same.
Actually, the "balloon" probably ends up with less fat and more lean tissue.
Bob MacWilliam
"James" <jamesbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7ab05909.04081...@posting.google.com...
Cardio would be useless in terms of your weight gaining goals, but if you
care about cardio performance/fitness at all, then it is not useless. Every
body has limited recovery ability. Too much cardio will interfere with
weight training in a number of ways - been there. Moderate cardio will be
good for your heart - go figure - and should not interfere with weight
training/gaining goals. Your trainer is only partially correct. As usual,
it's a matter of degrees. Oh, and although you haven't defined your terms
precisely, I would disagree with low reps, high weights and assert that
moderate reps (6-12) and high intensity would be more accurate suggestion
for a mass-building program.
Many people will tell you about the importance of the post-workout meal to
halt catabolism and start anabolism and I certainly do eat a carb/protein
meal immediately post-workout. How critical this is to long-term success I
don't know. If you're worried about posponing your post-WO meal because of
cardio then do cardio on off days and at different times on weight days and
this problem goes away too.
Bob
Hugh Beyer
news:XdWdnSYJYq_...@edaptivity.com:
What Bob and Donovan said. A lot of people seem to do high-rep, low-weight
for losing weight, but the consensus here is that that's backward. The
idea seems to be that you're weak so you can't lift heavy weights and you
get some calorie-burning benefit from the long sets. Here, people
generally believe that you should keep the weights heavy to minimize loss
of muscle and get your calorie burning other ways (less food, rational
cardio).
DRS
news:slrnchhbro...@panix2.panix.com
> On 2004-08-10, James <jamesbe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My trainer told me that doing cardio while being on a weight gaining
>> program (low reps, high weights) is absolutely useless.
>
> It burns calories, therefore it's useful to people who are trying to
> lose weight (that would be you, right ?)
But he said weight gaining. Cardio can interfere with recovery which is why
it's recommended you do cardio and resistance training on alternate days if
you can.
--
Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me.
Dally
DRS
news:XdWdnSYJYq_...@edaptivity.com
[...]
> Many people will tell you about the importance of the post-workout
> meal to halt catabolism and start anabolism and I certainly do eat a
> carb/protein meal immediately post-workout. How critical this is to
> long-term success I don't know.
Very. Lots and lots of studies say so.
Lyle McDonald
> "Donovan Rebbechi" <ab...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnchhbro...@panix2.panix.com
>
>>On 2004-08-10, James <jamesbe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>My trainer told me that doing cardio while being on a weight gaining
>>>program (low reps, high weights) is absolutely useless.
>>
>>It burns calories, therefore it's useful to people who are trying to
>>lose weight (that would be you, right ?)
>
>
> But he said weight gaining. Cardio can interfere with recovery which is why
> it's recommended you do cardio and resistance training on alternate days if
> you can.
Although I don't feel that some cardio is going to be a bad idea from a
growth standopint, a question:
Considering the time course of protein synthesis, how does alternating
strength and cardio days not interfere with recovery?
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
Neural gains.
It is in fact possible for beginners to gain strength while losing LBM.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
> "James" <jamesbe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7ab05909.04081...@posting.google.com...
>
>>>Do your cardio AFTER the weightlifting or on your day off.
>>>
>>> Hug
>>
>>My trainer told me that doing cardio while being on a weight gaining
>>program (low reps, high weights) is absolutely useless. The cardio
>>would burn the muscle tissues and you would not gain any muscle
>>volume. So if you do cardio after lifting weights is like filling a
>>balloon with water and afterwards letting the water out. As a result,
>>the balloon stays the same.
>
>
> Cardio would be useless in terms of your weight gaining goals,
I disagree. Light cardio can improve blood flow, may improve recovery
and can help stimulate appetite.
but if you
> care about cardio performance/fitness at all, then it is not useless. Every
> body has limited recovery ability. Too much cardio will interfere with
> weight training in a number of ways - been there.
Key word: too much.
> Many people will tell you about the importance of the post-workout meal to
> halt catabolism and start anabolism and I certainly do eat a carb/protein
> meal immediately post-workout. How critical this is to long-term success I
> don't know.
Very IMO.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
comparing the two
high rep weight (say 12-15 reps) trainng may burn slightly more calories
(during the exercise, it will burn less post-workout), depletes muscle
glycogen (which enhances full body fat burning), is an inefficient
method of increasing muscle mass (hard to do on a diet unless yo'ure a
fat beginner or coming back from a layoff), is more appropriate for
beginners anyhow.
heavy weight training (call it anything less than 12) can generate a
rather large post-workout calorie burn (one study estimated 700 cal over
the 2 days following the workout), depletes less muscle glcyogen (unless
you do a lot of sets), is more effective at increasing muscle mass (same
comment as above).
Generally speaking, diet/cardio has the biggest impact on fat loss,
weight training can impact on it slightly. The idea of using very high
reps (20 and up) to tone or lose fat is more or less nonsense.
Lyle
Karl Groves
"Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
And what is the long-term net effect from resistance training?
-Karl
Lyle McDonald
Don't change your argument.
Anyhow, it depends. Lots and lots and lots of athletes gain a true
shitpile of strength without increasing bodymass or muscle mass.
so your original assertion is still completely and utterly wrong.
Lyle
Dally
> Bob MacWilliam wrote:
>> Many people will tell you about the importance of the post-workout
>> meal to
>> halt catabolism and start anabolism and I certainly do eat a carb/protein
>> meal immediately post-workout. How critical this is to long-term
>> success I
>> don't know.
>
>
> Very IMO.
What's the verdict on a post-workout meal if you're still a fat fuck and
trying to lose fat while retaining as much LBM as possible? Eat
post-workout or not? And what do you guys eat post-workout? And what
sort of timing: a Balance bar in the locker room or just go home and
make your dinner (so it's ready an hour later?)
Dally
DRS
news:2ns5v6F...@uni-berlin.de
[...]
> What's the verdict on a post-workout meal if you're still a fat fuck
> and trying to lose fat while retaining as much LBM as possible? Eat
> post-workout or not?
Absolutely. Just factor it into your diet. That way you still take
advantage of the post-workout window (minimize catabolism/promote anabolism)
whilst still losing weight.
> And what do you guys eat post-workout?
Protein drink plus some sort of meusli bar or similar. You want carbs +
protein but minimal fats.
> And what
> sort of timing: a Balance bar in the locker room or just go home and
> make your dinner (so it's ready an hour later?)
You want it fairly soon after you stop working out.
Lyle McDonald
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
>> Bob MacWilliam wrote:
>
>
>>> Many people will tell you about the importance of the post-workout
>>> meal to
>>> halt catabolism and start anabolism and I certainly do eat a
>>> carb/protein
>>> meal immediately post-workout. How critical this is to long-term
>>> success I
>>> don't know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very IMO.
>
>
> What's the verdict on a post-workout meal if you're still a fat fuck and
> trying to lose fat while retaining as much LBM as possible? Eat
> post-workout or not?
yes.
> And what do you guys eat post-workout? And what
> sort of timing: a Balance bar in the locker room or just go home and
> make your dinner (so it's ready an hour later?)
Eat as soon as you can, Balance bar after workout would be better than
dinner an hour later.
Lyle
Pat Styles
OK, I was tracking you right up until the last sentence. I thought the post
workout caloric burn associated with heavy weights was believed to be more
effective in fat loss/creating necessary caloric deficit than plain old cardio.
You seem to be saying it isn't. Am I misunderstanding you or just misinformed
(yeah, yeah, I know I'm terribly misinformed in general, but I'm just talking
about this one specific point in this case)?
ps
John Hanson
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
I saw the number of follow up posts to this and knew that someone must
have given some BS advice before I even expanded the thread.
John Hanson
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>Hugh Beyer wrote:
I seem to always lose weight the last couple of weeks before a meet
which is when I'm going my heaviest. I don't know if that means
anything but I've had a hard time keeping weight on in the past.
We'll see what happens for the meet coming up but I'm not going to try
to gain weight as the results will all be ranked by formula.
Lee Michaels
"John Hanson" <jha...@northernlinks.com> wrote
>
> I saw the number of follow up posts to this and knew that someone must
> have given some BS advice before I even expanded the thread.
>
>
BS advice on MFW?? Surely you jest. LOL
bc
I did some googling on this very question some time ago. As I recall,
Lyle said that in order to optimize complete recovery, high GI carbs -
glucose polymers (maltodextrin) and amino acids improve anabolism,
while small amounts of fructose will preferentially help recover liver
glycogen. Also, he said a person trying to cut fat can still do the
shakes, just take them into account.
Additionally, a pre-workout drink of glucose and amino acids also
seems to help post-workout recovery too. Let's see if I saved my
refereces ....
Ah hah, here we go:
As to whether dieters should have the post workout shake:
http://tinyurl.com/53j58
And, for what to have in those shakes:
http://tinyurl.com/6t37r
http://tinyurl.com/4w6bj
http://tinyurl.com/44rlg
Hope that helps,
- bc
Lyle McDonald
Just realize that all of this is aimed at true optimization of the whole
process. For the average trainee, I don't think worrying about it in
such detail is that useful or productive. I wouldn't skip a post workout
meal but I wouldn't go nuts because it didn't have exacting amounts of
maltodextrin + GP's + fructose in it.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:32:10 -0500, Lyle McDonald
> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>Generally speaking, diet/cardio has the biggest impact on fat loss,
>>weight training can impact on it slightly. The idea of using very high
>>reps (20 and up) to tone or lose fat is more or less nonsense.
>>
>
> I seem to always lose weight the last couple of weeks before a meet
> which is when I'm going my heaviest. I don't know if that means
> anything but I've had a hard time keeping weight on in the past.
> We'll see what happens for the meet coming up but I'm not going to try
> to gain weight as the results will all be ranked by formula.
Obviously a function of the Weider Goddammit This is Hard Work and
Making me Lose Weight Principle.
Lyle
Brent Wilson
>From: bc_reall...@comcast.net (bc)
>Date: 8/11/04 1:09 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <5e3450f7.04081...@posting.google.com>
>I did some googling on this very question some time ago. As I recall,
>Lyle said that in order to optimize complete recovery, high GI carbs -
>glucose polymers (maltodextrin) and amino acids improve anabolism,
>while small amounts of fructose will preferentially help recover liver
>glycogen. Also, he said a person trying to cut fat can still do the
>shakes, just take them into account.
My question is this, if muscle glycogen gets depleted somewhat during exercise,
and a recovery carb drink will preferentially fill up the depleted glycogen
stores, do these calories really count toward daily intake. It seems that the
carbs are not being used as fuel for the body, but are rather being deposited
or stored for later use by the muscles. It seems rather that the body expends
energy converting the glucose to glycogen and storing it, but relying on FFA's
for fuel after exercise. Do I remember the keto book correctly, or is this
only on a very low-carb diet?
Brent
Hugh Beyer
news:20040811220632...@mb-m29.aol.com:
Yeah, they still count. Because your glycogen stores are now full, you'll be
pulling less energy from fat stores. It all balances out in the end.
bc
Gotta hand it to Joe, he is a man of Principles.
- bc
Lyle McDonald
> "Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> news:10hhn4j...@corp.supernews.com...
=
>>Generally speaking, diet/cardio has the biggest impact on fat loss,
>>weight training can impact on it slightly.
>
> <snip>
>
> OK, I was tracking you right up until the last sentence. I thought the post
> workout caloric burn associated with heavy weights was believed to be more
> effective in fat loss/creating necessary caloric deficit than plain old cardio.
> You seem to be saying it isn't. Am I misunderstanding you or just misinformed
> (yeah, yeah, I know I'm terribly misinformed in general, but I'm just talking
> about this one specific point in this case)?
Weider Confusion Principle: When I type fast, sometimes I get confused.
I think whether cardio or weights has the greater impact simply depends,
how much cardio, if the person is toiling at weights hard enough to make
a difference (the study in question showing the big post-workout burn
used either 3-4 exercises 4 sets at 10RM).
If I wanted to be really contrary (to myself anyhow), I'd go look and
see if the study was in beginners. More advanced exercisers don't
generate nearly the damage or stimulus from training, may not get the
same effect.
Thanks for the catch.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>>Subject: Re: Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
>>From: bc_reall...@comcast.net (bc)
>>Date: 8/11/04 1:09 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <5e3450f7.04081...@posting.google.com>
>
>
>>I did some googling on this very question some time ago. As I recall,
>>Lyle said that in order to optimize complete recovery, high GI carbs -
>>glucose polymers (maltodextrin) and amino acids improve anabolism,
>>while small amounts of fructose will preferentially help recover liver
>>glycogen. Also, he said a person trying to cut fat can still do the
>>shakes, just take them into account.
>
>
> My question is this, if muscle glycogen gets depleted somewhat during exercise,
> and a recovery carb drink will preferentially fill up the depleted glycogen
> stores, do these calories really count toward daily intake. It seems that the
> carbs are not being used as fuel for the body, but are rather being deposited
> or stored for later use by the muscles.
Yes but I still think they count: if you didn't eat them, the body would
at least try to use endogenous materials to resynthesize at least part
of the glycogen.
Lyle
bc
Sure, because somebody who lifts hard well after dinner and doesn't
eat until late the next morning still experiences muscle recovery.
They just don't get it as fast as the post-workout shake person. And
consequently, I would think they don't gain muscle mass as readily,
but I may be assuming too much there.
- bc
Lyle McDonald
> Lyle McDonald <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message news:<10hmvpn...@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>>Brent Wilson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Subject: Re: Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
>>>>From: bc_reall...@comcast.net (bc)
>>>>Date: 8/11/04 1:09 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>>Message-id: <5e3450f7.04081...@posting.google.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I did some googling on this very question some time ago. As I recall,
>>>>Lyle said that in order to optimize complete recovery, high GI carbs -
>>>>glucose polymers (maltodextrin) and amino acids improve anabolism,
>>>>while small amounts of fructose will preferentially help recover liver
>>>>glycogen. Also, he said a person trying to cut fat can still do the
>>>>shakes, just take them into account.
>>>
>>>
>>>My question is this, if muscle glycogen gets depleted somewhat during exercise,
>>>and a recovery carb drink will preferentially fill up the depleted glycogen
>>>stores, do these calories really count toward daily intake. It seems that the
>>>carbs are not being used as fuel for the body, but are rather being deposited
>>>or stored for later use by the muscles.
>>
>>Yes but I still think they count: if you didn't eat them, the body would
>>at least try to use endogenous materials to resynthesize at least part
>>of the glycogen.
>>
>>Lyle
>
>
> Sure, because somebody who lifts hard well after dinner and doesn't
> eat until late the next morning still experiences muscle recovery.
To an exceptionally minimal degree. If you don't turn around
post-workout catabolism with nutrients, a lot of the gains (or
potenntial) gains are lost. this has been demonstrated repeatedly in
the research. Hell, even waiting a couple of hours to provide nutrients
really impacts on net protein gains.
Lyle
Indiana
It really means a lot to me.
Lee: "rince" should have been "rice".
I agree that I have not eliminated fats and sugar from my diet, but I
have cut down the amount of servings.
Also thanks to those who provided me feedback.
I have a few questions:
1. If GNC 100% WHEY Protein is Horse$*^t, what are the other options?
Please give me some options and where can I get it.
2. I looked at the http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html (A) and
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html (B) for workout
routines.
The "B" website suggests a full-body workout 3 days a week, with one
day of rest between each day,
on the other hand the "A" website suggests a 2 day split upper-body &
lower-body workout, either 2 days in a row then a day of rest or three
days a week with one of day rest between each day.
Which one is more effective?
3. Is it more effective to do 2 sets of 12 reps each with heavier
weights
OR
3 sets of 8-10 reps with little lighter weights?
4. I used to eat the Power Bar, but it has High Fructose Corn Syrup
(HFC), I stopped eating it,
What is a good protein bar with less sugar and Fat?
Someone mentioned Balanced bar, it that good?
5. I agree that cardio (jogging) could reduce the muscle mass to a
certain extent,
but is it better to do cardio (45 minutes of jogging) on OFF days
or right before the weight lifting session?
6. Some food items claim that they contain 0 gram of Sugar, but they
still contain Sugar Alcohol.
Is Sugar Alcohol better than Sugar?
Once again I am glad to see all the responses I have received.
And I hope people do not have to do another spell check :-)
bc
Ah. I think I used "recovery" poorly. I meant simply getting back to
where you were before the workout. So, it sounds like even this level
of "recovery" is in jeopardy without the nutrients following a
workout? Sorry for the terminology issue. I'm working on it.
- bc
Pat Styles
Thanks for the clarification. Cheers.
ps
Brent Wilson
>Date: 8/12/04 1:50 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <10hnf1l...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>If you don't turn around
>post-workout catabolism with nutrients, a lot of the gains (or
>potenntial) gains are lost. this has been demonstrated repeatedly in
>the research. Hell, even waiting a couple of hours to provide nutrients
>really impacts on net protein gains.
>
>Lyle
That brings up another question, since this thread has focused on fat loss and
that requires a hypo-caloric diet, aren't "gains" a non-issue anyway. If I
understand how you are using protein gains here to mean adding muscle. If
adding muscle isn't an issue on a fat-loss diet, possibly forgoing a
post-workout meal in favor of some added food at normal meals for satiety might
be worth it?
As an aside, I workout with many high level collegiate athletes on a daily
basis. Not one of them so much as considers eating a recovery drink, rather
relying on three meals a day for their daily sustinence. How much real
difference could a recovery drink mean to one of these athletes in terms of
performance?
Brent
Seth Breidbart
Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
Seth [YMMV]
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
Ellis
>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>
>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
Ellis
>
>Seth [YMMV]
Seth Breidbart
Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>First, I like to thanks those who did a spell check on my message.
>It really means a lot to me.
I think you're going to fit right in here.
>1. If GNC 100% WHEY Protein is Horse$*^t, what are the other options?
> Please give me some options and where can I get it.
Optimum Nutrition; google
Dozens of brands carried on bulknutrition.com
ProteinCustomizer.com
>2. I looked at the http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html (A) and
>
> http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html (B) for workout
>routines.
>
> The "B" website suggests a full-body workout 3 days a week, with one
>day of rest between each day,
>on the other hand the "A" website suggests a 2 day split upper-body &
>lower-body workout, either 2 days in a row then a day of rest or three
>days a week with one of day rest between each day.
>
> Which one is more effective?
For what? hypertrophy-specific.com is better for gaining muscle, for
someone experienced. For maintaining while you lose, as a beginner,
either one will work.
>3. Is it more effective to do 2 sets of 12 reps each with heavier
>weights
> OR
> 3 sets of 8-10 reps with little lighter weights?
Don't you mean that the other way around? Shorter sets allow heavier
weights. Again, it depends ($1 to Lyle) on your goal. I'd go shorter
and heavier, so long as you can maintain form.
>5. I agree that cardio (jogging) could reduce the muscle mass to a
>certain extent,
> but is it better to do cardio (45 minutes of jogging) on OFF days
>or right before the weight lifting session?
Right before weight lifting is the worst possible time.
I don't know if several hours after lifting or the next day is better;
I suspect that the energy wasted worrying about it exceeds the
difference.
>6. Some food items claim that they contain 0 gram of Sugar, but they
>still contain Sugar Alcohol.
> Is Sugar Alcohol better than Sugar?
For what purpose? It doesn't have the insulin effect, but it still
provides calories.
Seth
Larry Hodges
> On 2004-08-09, Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I am 33, 6'2", 180 lbs.
>> I want to grow lean muscle and get rid of my belly/love handles.
>
>
>> I have never been consistent about weight lifting, but for the past 7
>> months I have been going to the gym religiously.
>
>
>> I have added a lot of proteins in my deit - egg whites, boneless
>> chicken breast. 100% WHEY Protein from GNC, 1% fat Milk, Fat Free
>
>
>> A trainer told me that I have two competing goals:
>> 1. Loose Belly vs. 2. Gain Lean Muscle Mass.
>> He suggested that I focus on loosing the belly fat first, and once I
>
>
>> Any other advice on diet and exercise is welcome.
>
> what you're already eating (except the GNC horseshit) And while
> you're at it, learn to read and write at a junior high level or
> better, dammit!!!
>
> It's as simple as that. Which is a good thing, for you.
>
> Cheers,
Donovan, I have to admit, I really enjoy reading your posts, even though
you're a liberal bastard. Keep up the good work!
--
-Larry
Proton Soup
wrote:
Uh yeah, 4mph is about as fast as I am capable of walking. Maybe Seth
has really long legs or something.
-----------
Proton Soup
"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."
Helgi Briem
wrote:
>On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
My normal walking speed is about 8km/h or 5 mph,
but I walk very fast and people make humorous comments
about my strange gait. I often overtake joggers.
Judging from people I sometimes walk with, 4 mph (6km/h)
is just above average walking speed.
--
Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is
Never worry about anything that you see on the news.
To get on the news it must be sufficiently rare
that your chances of being involved are negligible!
Ellis
<HelgiB...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:23:57 +0100, Ellis <ellis...@msn.comREMOVE>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>>>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>>>
>>>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
>>
>>4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
>>start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
>
>My normal walking speed is about 8km/h or 5 mph,
>but I walk very fast and people make humorous comments
>about my strange gait. I often overtake joggers.
>
>Judging from people I sometimes walk with, 4 mph (6km/h)
>is just above average walking speed.
Truth is, to sustain an average of 4mph over any significant distance,
when there are things like people to dodge and busy roads to cross (if
in the city) or gates and styles to negotiate (if in the country) then
the actual average *when walking* needs to be higher than 4mph. And,
as you say, it starts to look silly. Walking 3 miles in 45 minutes is
really quite good. The pace would have to have to described as brisk.
Jogging 3 miles in 45 minutes would have be described as, er,
something else.
Ellis
DRS
news:20040812225049...@mb-m02.aol.com
[...]
> As an aside, I workout with many high level collegiate athletes on a
> daily basis. Not one of them so much as considers eating a recovery
> drink, rather relying on three meals a day for their daily
> sustinence. How much real difference could a recovery drink mean to
> one of these athletes in terms of performance?
A significant amount. There's bags of studies showing that.
--
"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally
Dally
You don't suppose that the size of the person's legs and/or their level
of physical conditioning could be a pertinant factor?
>>Seth [YMMV]
By the way, Seth, what DOES the frequently cited truism YMMV mean, anyway?
Dally, who jogs 13 minute miles
Helgi Briem
> >>Seth [YMMV]
>
>By the way, Seth, what DOES the frequently cited truism
>YMMV mean, anyway?
Your Mileage May Vary.
In other words, your results using this method may vary
according to various extraneous factors.
For a list of other commonly used Internet acronyms, see:
http://www.al6400.com/resources/acronyms.shtml
HTH, HAND
Pat Styles
> >Subject: Re: Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
> >From: Lyle McDonald lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net
> >Date: 8/12/04 1:50 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <10hnf1l...@corp.supernews.com>
> >
>
> >If you don't turn around
> >post-workout catabolism with nutrients, a lot of the gains (or
> >potenntial) gains are lost. this has been demonstrated repeatedly in
> >the research. Hell, even waiting a couple of hours to provide nutrients
> >really impacts on net protein gains.
> >
> >Lyle
>
> That brings up another question, since this thread has focused on fat loss and
> that requires a hypo-caloric diet, aren't "gains" a non-issue anyway. If I
> understand how you are using protein gains here to mean adding muscle. If
> adding muscle isn't an issue on a fat-loss diet, possibly forgoing a
> post-workout meal in favor of some added food at normal meals for satiety
might
> be worth it?
I don't think so. In the case of someone dieting you would still want to use
the post workout meal to help turn around the catabolic state created by the
workout and preserve muscle.
> As an aside, I workout with many high level collegiate athletes on a daily
> basis. Not one of them so much as considers eating a recovery drink, rather
> relying on three meals a day for their daily sustinence. How much real
> difference could a recovery drink mean to one of these athletes in terms of
> performance?
>
> Brent
A LOT of real difference.
ps
Ellis
>Ellis wrote:
>> On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>>>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>>>
>>>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
>>
>>
>> 4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
>> start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
>>
>> Ellis
>
>You don't suppose that the size of the person's legs and/or their level
>of physical conditioning could be a pertinant factor?
Well I guess. I'm 6'2" and training for a marathon. I didn't realise
we were talking about 7 foot triathletes or something. I say to
*walk* 3 miles in 45 minutes is pretty good going. If I was to do it
I would characterise my walking as "brisk". There's nothing wrong
with jogging 13 minute miles. I would definitely characterise 13
minutes miles as "jogging" as opposed to "walking".
Your point is?
Ellis
John HUDSON
>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>
>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
That's a trifle patronising Se th!
I deliberately went on the rolling road today just to test your
theory, and in fact 4 mph is quite a brisk walk and is easily
'joggable', particularly for someone who isn't the finely honed
athlete that you obviously are Se th!!
Have a great weekend Se th - you know I intend to!! ;o)
TFIF!!
Dally
>>>4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
>>>start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
>>
>>By the way, Seth, what DOES the frequently cited truism YMMV mean, anyway?
>>
>>Dally, who jogs 13 minute miles
>
>>>You don't suppose that the size of the person's legs and/or their level
>>of physical conditioning could be a pertinant factor?
>
>
> Well I guess. I'm 6'2" and training for a marathon. I didn't realise
> we were talking about 7 foot triathletes or something. I say to
> *walk* 3 miles in 45 minutes is pretty good going. If I was to do it
> I would characterise my walking as "brisk". There's nothing wrong
> with jogging 13 minute miles. I would definitely characterise 13
> minutes miles as "jogging" as opposed to "walking".
>
> Your point is?
As an aside, QUIT TOP-POSTING.
But my point was, I'm 5'6" and jogging at 4.5 mph is perfectly
reasonable. A shorter person could quite easily be jogging at 4 mph.
YMMV means "your mileage may vary" and is incredibly apt in this
situation, as your mileage covered at the same intensity with vary
enormously based on many factors.
So you can't definitively say 4 mph is a walk. It isn't for me. It's
in that annoying land where it's too slow to jog and too fast to walk.
Dally
Dally
> Donovan, I have to admit, I really enjoy reading your posts, even though
> you're a liberal bastard. Keep up the good work!
I enjoy reading his posts partly *BECAUSE* he is a liberal bastard. I
can't stomach Mr. Hanky, though.
Dally, a bleeding heart
Lyle McDonald
> Lyle McDonald <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message news:<10hnf1l...@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>>bc wrote:
>>>Sure, because somebody who lifts hard well after dinner and doesn't
>>>eat until late the next morning still experiences muscle recovery.
>>
>>To an exceptionally minimal degree. If you don't turn around
>>post-workout catabolism with nutrients, a lot of the gains (or
>>potenntial) gains are lost. this has been demonstrated repeatedly in
>>the research. Hell, even waiting a couple of hours to provide nutrients
>>really impacts on net protein gains.
>>
>>Lyle
>
>
> Ah. I think I used "recovery" poorly. I meant simply getting back to
> where you were before the workout.
It will still be lessened by not consuming nutrients afterwards IMO.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>>Subject: Re: Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
>>From: Lyle McDonald lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net
>>Date: 8/12/04 1:50 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <10hnf1l...@corp.supernews.com>
>>
>
>>If you don't turn around
>>post-workout catabolism with nutrients, a lot of the gains (or
>>potenntial) gains are lost. this has been demonstrated repeatedly in
>>the research. Hell, even waiting a couple of hours to provide nutrients
>>really impacts on net protein gains.
>>
>>Lyle
>
>
> That brings up another question, since this thread has focused on fat loss and
> that requires a hypo-caloric diet, aren't "gains" a non-issue anyway. If I
> understand how you are using protein gains here to mean adding muscle. If
> adding muscle isn't an issue on a fat-loss diet, possibly forgoing a
> post-workout meal in favor of some added food at normal meals for satiety might
> be worth it?
Maintaining muscle on a diet is important, so is recovery. In one
sense, not losing muscle is equivalent to gaining it on a diet. Cuz
you're still ahead at the end of the day.
Post workout nutrition is therefore equally important.
> As an aside, I workout with many high level collegiate athletes on a daily
> basis. Not one of them so much as considers eating a recovery drink, rather
> relying on three meals a day for their daily sustinence. How much real
> difference could a recovery drink mean to one of these athletes in terms of
> performance?
Enough that I think they should get something into them.
Lyle
Seth Breidbart
No, Seth is a New Yorker who commutes on foot (though commuting to NYC
right now isn't something I'd do on foot).
Typical walking speeds vary by location; New York pedestrians are
among the fastest (especially when not blocked by tourists).
Seth
--
Note to self: a powerlifting meet is not a recommended taper
for a track event. --Ted K.
Seth Breidbart
John HUDSON <John HUDSON> wrote:
>On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>>
>>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
>
>That's a trifle patronising Se th!
Only a trifle? I'll have to try harder. (BTW, the idiot apparently
adds spaces to people's names to prevent kibozing. It doesn't help
when you're replying to me in a newsgroup I read; I'll find that
article just fine. Besides, I don't kiboze.)
>I deliberately went on the rolling road today just to test your
>theory, and in fact 4 mph is quite a brisk walk
Brisk < very fast.
Thank you for supporting my statement.
Ellis
"Dally" <da...@myself.com> wrote in message
news:2o4acpF...@uni-berlin.de...
> Ellis wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:32:26 -0400, Dally <da...@myself.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Ellis wrote:
>
>>>>4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
>>>>start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
>>>
>>>By the way, Seth, what DOES the frequently cited truism YMMV mean,
>>>anyway?
>>>
>>>Dally, who jogs 13 minute miles
>>
>>>>You don't suppose that the size of the person's legs and/or their level
>>>of physical conditioning could be a pertinant factor?
>>
>>
>> Well I guess. I'm 6'2" and training for a marathon. I didn't realise
>> we were talking about 7 foot triathletes or something. I say to
>> *walk* 3 miles in 45 minutes is pretty good going. If I was to do it
>> I would characterise my walking as "brisk". There's nothing wrong
>> with jogging 13 minute miles. I would definitely characterise 13
>> minutes miles as "jogging" as opposed to "walking".
>>
>> Your point is?
>
> As an aside, QUIT TOP-POSTING.
Seriously, ARE YOU ON DRUGS?
Show me one example where I've top-posted you mad old bat.
Ellis
--
Apply yourself. Take a few risks. Have fun with it.
Dally
> John HUDSON <John HUDSON> wrote:
>>That's a trifle patronising Se th!
>
>
> Only a trifle? I'll have to try harder. (BTW, the idiot apparently
> adds spaces to people's names to prevent kibozing. It doesn't help
> when you're replying to me in a newsgroup I read; I'll find that
> article just fine. Besides, I don't kiboze.)
<?> What is kiboze? I'd been wondering why he affects that space.
Dally
DRS
news:ycqdnWMPOtR...@giganews.com
[...]
>> As an aside, QUIT TOP-POSTING.
>
> Seriously, ARE YOU ON DRUGS?
>
> Show me one example where I've top-posted you mad old bat.
LOL!
Don't worry, she just loves making shit up out of thing air and pretending
it's real. Me ex-wide had the same seriously annoying habit.
John HUDSON
>In article <78qph09h8f9sra6jk...@4ax.com>,
>John HUDSON <John HUDSON> wrote:
>>On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>>>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>>>
>>>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
>>
>>That's a trifle patronising Se th!
>
>Only a trifle? I'll have to try harder.
Given that we are about the same age Seth, and probably among the
oldest of the regular contributors, we really ought to be setting a
more mature example!!
>(BTW, the idiot apparently
>adds spaces to people's names to prevent kibozing. It doesn't help
>when you're replying to me in a newsgroup I read; I'll find that
>article just fine. Besides, I don't kiboze.)
Kibozing and grepping are for serious trolls only, or Usenet nerds,
and although you appear to drag old posts out of the archives, I don't
think you fall into those categories.
"Se th" just amuses me Seth, and obviously irritates you Seth, so in
the unlikely event that I wanted to irritate you Seth, I would
probably in a very juvenile manner, start using Se th Seth!! ;o)
>
>>I deliberately went on the rolling road today just to test your
>>theory, and in fact 4 mph is quite a brisk walk
>
>Brisk < very fast.
Brisk as in 'not a comfortable pace' and > normal extended walking
pace for most people I suspect.
>
>Thank you for supporting my statement.
If I gave that impression, which I seriously doubt, then I was
seriously in error!!
Have a great weekend Seth - I intend to!! ;o)
TFIF!!
John HUDSON
Searching for threads and strings with a few to responding; KIBO is an
acronym for "Knowledge In, Bullshit Out"!
Usenet nerd language and behaviour adopted by serious "trolls"!!
Have a nice weekend with the family Wendy - I'm going to!! ;o)
TFIF!!
Brent Wilson
>Date: 8/13/2004 8:23 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <cfifd9$ikb$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz>
>
>A significant amount. There's bags of studies showing that.
Please share a couple.
I am looking for studies with athletes and an increase in performance by
switching from no post-workout meal to a reasonable one.
Brent
Brent Wilson
>Date: 8/13/2004 9:34 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <pk4Tc.36843$xk.34575@fed1read01>
>
>A LOT of real difference.
>ps
Is it quantifiable?
Brent
DRS
I'm going to bed now so this is the best you'll get after I've been up all
night watching the opening of the Olympics. For articles which put it all
together try http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_1.htm,
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm (this has
references) and
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/windowofopportunity.htm. These
cites below are indicative of what can be found on PubMed. My search was by
no means exhaustive.
"It was concluded that post-exercise macronutrient intake following
endurance exercise can attenuate reductions in body weight and improve
nitrogen balance during 7 days of increased energy expenditure. Importantly,
post-exercise supplementation improved time to exhaustion during a
subsequent bout of endurance exercise."
Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2002 Jun;12(2):172-88.
The influence of post-exercise macronutrient intake on energy balance and
protein metabolism in active females participating in endurance training.
Roy BD, Luttmer K, Bosman MJ, Tarnopolsky MA.
Departments of Medicine and Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, ON,
Canada L8N 3Z5.
"It has been observed that muscle glycogen synthesis is twice as rapid if
carbohydrate is consumed immediately after exercise as opposed to waiting
several hours,"
Can J Appl Physiol. 2001;26 Suppl:S236-45.
Dietary strategies to promote glycogen synthesis after exercise.
Ivy JL.
Exercise Physiology and Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology and
Health Education, The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, TX, USA.
"The timing and nutritional content of the post-exercise meal, although
often overlooked, are known to have synergistic effects on protein accretion
after exercise."
Nutr Clin Care. 2002 Jul-Aug;5(4):191-6.
What are the dietary protein requirements of physically active individuals?
New evidence on the effects of exercise on protein utilization during
post-exercise recovery.
Fielding RA, Parkington J.
Human Physiology Laboratory, Department of Health Sciences, Boston
University, Sargent College of Health and Rehabilitation Sciences, 635
Commonwealth Avenue, Boston, MA 02215, USA. fiel...@bu.edu
Lyle McDonald
> DRS <d...@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote:
>
>>"Brent Wilson" <baen...@aol.comnospam> wrote
>>
>>>As an aside, I workout with many high level collegiate athletes on a
>>>daily basis. Not one of them so much as considers eating a recovery
>>>drink, rather relying on three meals a day for their daily
>>>sustinence. How much real difference could a recovery drink mean to
>>>one of these athletes in terms of performance?
>>
>>A significant amount. There's bags of studies showing that.
>
>
> Mostly done on previously untrained overweight policemen. What I'm not
> sure about is how much difference it makes over the course of say 20
> years.
Well, if by 'mostly' you mean one of the studies (that wasn't even
looking at what we're talking about), then you're correct.
But outside of that one, the rest are done in a variety of groups.
To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
Lyle
Brent Wilson
>Date: 8/13/04 8:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <10hqqom...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/44xma
>
>Lyle
>
Lyle, a lot of these abstracts (and I haven't finshed even a quarter of them)
look at just glycogen replenishment, and typically after "exhaustive" aerobic
exercise. How about for an athlete who doesn't conduct a glycogen depleting
workout, such as many I know including myself who maybe complete 30 reps total
on average per workout, nothing over 5 reps, with very short rep times, say 2-3
seconds. With the OL variations, nothing over 3 reps, and extremely short rep
times with little concentric.
Is the post-workout glycogen replenishment as much of a factor for these
situations? I can certainly understand it from a bodybuilding perspective with
many sets/reps and longer TUT.
Brent
Larry Hodges
Of course I meant that in fun. It appears some here don't understand smack
talk, which is done in fun. I come from a gamer's background where we talk
to each other like this all the time. And we're all good friends.
--
-Larry
Pat Styles
What don't you understand about a LOT? ;-)
ps
John Hanson
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>John Hanson wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:32:10 -0500, Lyle McDonald
>> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>>Generally speaking, diet/cardio has the biggest impact on fat loss,
>>>weight training can impact on it slightly. The idea of using very high
>>>reps (20 and up) to tone or lose fat is more or less nonsense.
>>>
>>
>> I seem to always lose weight the last couple of weeks before a meet
>> which is when I'm going my heaviest. I don't know if that means
>> anything but I've had a hard time keeping weight on in the past.
>> We'll see what happens for the meet coming up but I'm not going to try
>> to gain weight as the results will all be ranked by formula.
>
>Obviously a function of the Weider Goddammit This is Hard Work and
>Making me Lose Weight Principle.
>
Just following up. For the past month or so, I've been weighing in
between 223-228 when I get to the gym. This is with normal gym attire
Tshirt, shorts, shoes, etc. Monday I was 222, Wednesday I was 220 and
last night I was 217. So, it seems the trend continues.
I've also noticed I'm not nearly as hungry as I normally am.
Wednesday was squat night so normally I'm famished the following day
but wasn't Thursday. I did light squats again last night and speed
benches and had to force myself to have a protein drink afterwards and
I haven't eaten yet this morning.
DRS
news:10hqqom...@corp.supernews.com
[...]
> To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/44xma
I don't see any search criteria, so how did you get that to work?
Lucas Buck
>On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:23:57 +0100, Ellis <ellis...@msn.comREMOVE>
>wrote:
>
>>On 12 Aug 2004 23:08:53 -0400, se...@panix.com (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <3b62e635.04080...@posting.google.com>,
>>>Indiana <hawk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>1st day: 45 minute jog (3 miles),
>>>
>>>4 mph is a walk, and not a very fast one.
>>
>>4 mph is definitely walking, but pretty fast. Much faster and you
>>start to look like one of those silly speed-walkers.
>
>Uh yeah, 4mph is about as fast as I am capable of walking. Maybe Seth
>has really long legs or something.
He's a horse.
Seth Breidbart
DRS <d...@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote:
>Don't worry, she just loves making shit up out of thing air and pretending
>it's real. Me ex-wide had the same seriously annoying habit.
If that was intentional it should have been crossposted to ssfa.
Seth
--
99% of the time, he is rude to the people who do in fact deserve
it. -- Will Brink
Seth Breidbart
>> (BTW, the idiot apparently
>> adds spaces to people's names to prevent kibozing. It doesn't help
>> when you're replying to me in a newsgroup I read; I'll find that
>> article just fine. Besides, I don't kiboze.)
>
><?> What is kiboze? I'd been wondering why he affects that space.
In the early days of Usenet, someone called Kibo was famous for
finding any reference to him in any newsgroup and following up. He
did it by grepping the news spool (one reason why world.std.com had a
seriously overpowered news server early on).
Seth
--
chown -R us /yourbase
Lyle McDonald
There is almost more nerd in that paragraph than should be allowed by law.
Lyle
John HUDSON
Move you out of your narrow specialist field McD and your a dedicated
Philistine!!
HAGS!! ;o)
Dally
True. Luckily I appreciate nerd. The explanation made perfect sense.
Thanks.
Dally
Dally
> "Dally" <da...@myself.com> wrote in message
> news:2o4acpF...@uni-berlin.de...
>>As an aside, QUIT TOP-POSTING.
>
> Seriously, ARE YOU ON DRUGS?
>
> Show me one example where I've top-posted you mad old bat.
My mistake. You left unsnipped conversation below your signature and I
only had that part open in my reader. It looked like top-posting and I
had you confused with someone else.
So, quit leaving unsnipped parts of your post below your signature.
Feel better now?
BTW, I kind of liked being called a mad old bat.
Dally
Proton Soup
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
I was actually on Usenet in those days, and I remember Kibo and even
that he grepped. Although I was never a kibologist.
-----------
Proton Soup
"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."
Lucas Buck
Compared to your and Elzi's and Proton's biomed and physics discussions? hardly.
Besides, I think he meant decwrl rather than world.std.com.
That was back in the days where you COULD grep the whole usenet intake for
a given day even on trash like 3B2s; the entire usenet volume for an average day
would have numbers in the dozens of megabytes (or less on weekends), back before
every idiot and every phony Brit had usenet access.
Lucas
(online since 1987)
John HUDSON
Fucking Wow!!
Perhaps Dick Dastardly will see if Mutley will let you have a nerds
long service medal!!
Proton Soup
<le...@dodgerssuck.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
He was still doing it after the AOL crowd found usenet.
Lyle McDonald
> Lyle McDonald <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>
>>To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/44xma
>
>
> Well thanks. I've seen some of these. My question is more about
> whether the net protein synthesis/balance can be a function of
> adaptation to the amount of calorties and aminoacids in the food.
I don't understand what you're getting at here.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
>>Subject: Re: Fat Loss at the Mid-Section vs. Gaining Lean Muscle Mass
>>From: Lyle McDonald lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net
>>Date: 8/13/04 8:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <10hqqom...@corp.supernews.com>
>>
>
>>To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/44xma
>>
>>Lyle
>>
>
>
> Lyle, a lot of these abstracts (and I haven't finshed even a quarter of them)
> look at just glycogen replenishment, and typically after "exhaustive" aerobic
> exercise. How about for an athlete who doesn't conduct a glycogen depleting
> workout, such as many I know including myself who maybe complete 30 reps total
> on average per workout, nothing over 5 reps, with very short rep times, say 2-3
> seconds. With the OL variations, nothing over 3 reps, and extremely short rep
> times with little concentric.
For pure strength workouts like you're describing, I don't think it's
nearly as big of an issue. I don't know that it will hurt but I
wouldn't expect it to be of a huge help.
You're also not getting the same stimulation to protein synthesis with
such workouts, most of the gains are neural. For extensive endurance
(or interval type sports: basketball, football) or bodybuilding, where
you're depleting a lot of glycogen and stimulating some adaptation in
the muscles which require nutrients/aminos for adaptation, absolutely.
If you were an OL in a weight gain phase (i.e. trying to move up a
weight class), absolutely.
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:05:05 -0500, Lyle McDonald
> <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>
>>John Hanson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:32:10 -0500, Lyle McDonald
>>><lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>>Generally speaking, diet/cardio has the biggest impact on fat loss,
>>>>weight training can impact on it slightly. The idea of using very high
>>>>reps (20 and up) to tone or lose fat is more or less nonsense.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I seem to always lose weight the last couple of weeks before a meet
>>>which is when I'm going my heaviest. I don't know if that means
>>>anything but I've had a hard time keeping weight on in the past.
>>>We'll see what happens for the meet coming up but I'm not going to try
>>>to gain weight as the results will all be ranked by formula.
>>
>>Obviously a function of the Weider Goddammit This is Hard Work and
>>Making me Lose Weight Principle.
>>
>
> Just following up. For the past month or so, I've been weighing in
> between 223-228 when I get to the gym. This is with normal gym attire
> Tshirt, shorts, shoes, etc. Monday I was 222, Wednesday I was 220 and
> last night I was 217. So, it seems the trend continues.
There's no way that's real (i.e. tissue) weight loss. Only a very small
part of it anyhow. No way in hell.
How hot is your gym?
Lyle
Lyle McDonald
> "Lyle McDonald" <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> news:10hqqom...@corp.supernews.com
>
> [...]
>
>
>>To get you started on this journey of enlightenment:
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/44xma
>
>
> I don't see any search criteria, so how did you get that to work?
Magic.
Actually, Pubmed acts weird, if you do a single search and turn stuff
up, the URL in the bar won't give you anything useful to reference it:
it's just the baseline Pubmed URL.
So what I end up having to do is find a representative paper, then hit
the related links link, which gives me a list of related papers AND a
working URL to post.
What I probably did in this case was put in an author that I know had
done work in this area (probably Kevin Tipton), found one of his papers,
hit the related links link and used that URL to make the Tiny one.
Lyle
Tiger Hillside
<jha...@northernlinks.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Just following up. For the past month or so, I've been weighing in
>between 223-228 when I get to the gym. This is with normal gym attire
>Tshirt, shorts, shoes, etc. Monday I was 222, Wednesday I was 220 and
>last night I was 217. So, it seems the trend continues.
It looks like it is accelerating. I would make sure my will was up to
date, you should disappear before Thanksgiving.
John Hanson
<lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
Not very hot...probably 70ish. I'll weigh myself again tonight.
Dally
> Seth Breidbart <se...@panix.com> wrote:
> : Typical walking speeds vary by location; New York pedestrians are
> : among the fastest (especially when not blocked by tourists).
>
> I remember seeing a survey a few years back that ranked them:
>
> 1) Springfield, MA (WTF?)
> 2) Boston, MA (being a Bostonian, and spending time in NYC, I agree w/ this)
> 3) NYC
>
> Dunno what went after that
As it happens, I've walked in all three. I agree.
Springfield is mostly an ugly city with a few nice places. Best to walk
fast to get where you're going.
Dally
Brent Wilson
>From: Lyle McDonald lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net
>Message-id: <10i1el4...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>For pure strength workouts like you're describing, I don't think it's
>nearly as big of an issue. I don't know that it will hurt but I
>wouldn't expect it to be of a huge help.
>
>You're also not getting the same stimulation to protein synthesis with
>such workouts, most of the gains are neural. For extensive endurance
>(or interval type sports: basketball, football) or bodybuilding, where
>you're depleting a lot of glycogen and stimulating some adaptation in
>the muscles which require nutrients/aminos for adaptation, absolutely.
>If you were an OL in a weight gain phase (i.e. trying to move up a
>weight class), absolutely.
That is what I was thinking. So for an athlete who is competitive in a given
weight class, trying to maintain, or cutting weight. It follows that maybe a
post-workout meal might be a source of unnecessary calories since they are not
depleting much glycogen during workouts? These individuals would probably be
just as well off by going home and eating a good meal, which contains some
carbs to refill the small amount of glycogen lost during workouts.
Brent
Seth Breidbart
Lucas Buck <le...@dodgerssuck.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:36:08 -0500, Lyle McDonald <lyl...@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:
>>Seth Breidbart wrote:
>>> In article <2o4ihgF...@uni-berlin.de>, Dally <da...@myself.com> wrote:
>>>><?> What is kiboze? I'd been wondering why he affects that space.
>>>
>>> In the early days of Usenet, someone called Kibo was famous for
>>> finding any reference to him in any newsgroup and following up. He
>>> did it by grepping the news spool (one reason why world.std.com had a
>>> seriously overpowered news server early on).
>>
>>There is almost more nerd in that paragraph than should be allowed by law.
>
>Compared to your and Elzi's and Proton's biomed and physics discussions? hardly.
>
>Besides, I think he meant decwrl rather than world.std.com.
No, kibo lived on world (at least when I knew him).
Have you seen his rant about "which Courier"? It's hilarious, if you
know anything about fonts.
>That was back in the days where you COULD grep the whole usenet intake for
>a given day even on trash like 3B2s; the entire usenet volume for an average day
>would have numbers in the dozens of megabytes (or less on weekends), back before
>every idiot and every phony Brit had usenet access.
I know people who used to _read_ all of Usenet.
Of course, there were only 3 sites back then.
>(online since 1987)
(helped build the ARPANET)
Seth
--
Sometimes we have to forget studies and theories and just lift like a
fucker! -- George UK