Creatine + HMB + l-carnitine = ?
Hans Neber
How about supplementing creatine monohydrate, HMB
and l-carnitine simultaneously? Would there be any
negative interference? Anyone out there who tried
it or is doing it?
Dealah2
Thats a pretty crappy cycle you got there... Drop the HMB and
l-carnitine, just stick with Creatine. Negative Interference? I am
assuming you mean side effects. The answer is NO.
The Dealer
William Avila
Nicholas Nowik
Hans Neber wrote:
>
> How about supplementing creatine monohydrate, HMB
> and l-carnitine simultaneously? Would there be any
> negative interference? Anyone out there who tried
> it or is doing it?
I am using Ripped Fuel with Creatine and have lost a lot of fat, plus
gained LBM (lean body mass).
Nicholas
Hans Neber
> >How about supplementing creatine monohydrate, HMB
> >and l-carnitine simultaneously? Would there be any
> >negative interference? Anyone out there who tried
> >it or is doing it?
>
> l-carnitine, just stick with Creatine. Negative Interference? I am
> assuming you mean side effects. The answer is NO.
>
> The Dealer
> William Avila
Thanks a lot for your reply!
If there are no side effects, are you saying HMB and l-carnitine
are crap anyway? The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
Hans Neber
Tim Fogarty
> If there are no side effects, are you saying HMB and l-carnitine
> are crap anyway? The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
> apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
Yes. HMB, L-Carnitine, CLA, and almost every other supplement on the
shelves of the health food store do nothing to promote muscle gains for
bodybuilders, at least in dosages that you can afford to take.
Creatine pumps water into your muscle cells. Take it if thats what you want.
Ephedrine and caffine are stimulants. Take them if you need stimulants
before your workout.
Melatonin, DHEA, and that Andro-something (why do I have trouble
remembering it) are hormones and will do hormonal things to your body.
Protein powders are an easy way to get extra protein in your diet. Use
them if preparing and eating real food for every meal is difficult.
A multi-vitamin is a must.
Everything else is a waste of money.
--
Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com)
http://musclememory.com/fogarty
Dealah2
>Thanks a lot for your reply!
>If there are no side effects, are you saying HMB and l-carnitine
>are crap anyway?
Thats exactly what I mean. Not worth it.
>The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
>apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
MM2K is a mag that is owned by EAS. One of the major companies that
distributes HMB. So I am not surprised they said that. =)
If you need more verification, just do a dejasearch on HMB in this group.
Dozens of people will verify.
The Dealer
William Avila
Hans Neber
Tim Fogarty wrote:
> Creatine pumps water into your muscle cells. Take it if thats what you want.
In the misc.fitness.weights FAQ [section 9] I read that the
additional water uptake is indeed happening but also:
"creatine functions as a secondary reservoir for short-term energy
to be drawn upon when ATP (adenosine triphosphate) stores--the energy
storage molecule that drives muscular contraction--are depleted.
Supplemental creatine monohydrate added to the diet will increase
the concentration of creatine phosphate within muscle tissue which
may increase one's ability to perform brief, high-intensity exercise."
and further
"if you stop taking creatine, this water weight will slowly go away
again, but any benefits you gain from increased exercise intensity
while taking creatine will remain."
What's your opinion on that?
Hans Neber
Hans Neber
Dealah2 wrote:
>
> >Thanks a lot for your reply!
> >If there are no side effects, are you saying HMB and l-carnitine
> >are crap anyway?
>
> Thats exactly what I mean. Not worth it.
>
> >The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
> >apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
>
> MM2K is a mag that is owned by EAS. One of the major companies that
> distributes HMB. So I am not surprised they said that. =)
But what about the cited studies? Do you think it is possible to have
these articles (published in peer reviewed journals) faked?
> If you need more verification, just do a dejasearch on HMB in this group.
> Dozens of people will verify.
In case "newbie questions" are tolerated: What is a dejasearch?
Hans Neber
Tim Fogarty
In <339E72...@ttp.ch> Hans Neber (ne...@ttp.ch) wrote:
> >
> > MM2K is a mag that is owned by EAS. One of the major companies that
> > distributes HMB. So I am not surprised they said that. =)
> But what about the cited studies? Do you think it is possible to have
> these articles (published in peer reviewed journals) faked?
Have you read the articles in the peer reviewed journals ? What size
sample was used ? Was there a control sample ? What are the demographics
(maybe not the right word) of the sample ?
The study may be valid, but still not very applicable to the market
they're selling this product to.
Clyde Mighells
Hans Neber wrote:
>
> Dealah2 wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks a lot for your reply!
> > >If there are no side effects, are you saying HMB and l-carnitine
> > >are crap anyway?
> >
> > Thats exactly what I mean. Not worth it.
> >
> > >The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
> > >apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
> >
> > distributes HMB. So I am not surprised they said that. =)
>
> But what about the cited studies? Do you think it is possible to have
> these articles (published in peer reviewed journals) faked?
>
> > Dozens of people will verify.
>
> In case "newbie questions" are tolerated: What is a dejasearch?
>
> Hans Neber
Go to DejaNews (you can get to it via Yahoo if you like). There you can
search like you do in Yahoo. Put in a word or phrase and it'll give you
all the posts that have to do with the search.
--
Just my thoughts...
Clyde
Where shipping is always free!
and the lowest prices on Creatine Monohydrate and Androstene products
are found. :)
http://www.microserve.com/~clyde/nulife
http://www.microserve.com/~clyde/nulife/gym.htm
DIMFAB
>Supplemental creatine monohydrate added to the diet will >increase
>the concentration of creatine phosphate within muscle >tissue which
>may increase one's ability to perform brief, >high-intensity exercise."
I think that this is probaby correct. I was on Cholesterol medication a
while ago and a potential side effect was
muscle breakdown.. When I flunked the blood test I
told the Doc it was probably due to lifting. He asked me if I was taking
Creatine and when I said yes he said that they measure Creatine phosphate
in the blood to detect any
breakdown ERGO it is probably a good idea to suppliment
with it.
BTW I went off for a few days with no lifting, Blood
returned to normal and got the go ahead to start again
including using the creatine.
Nolan
RacerX 012
creatine+hmb+l-carnitine=creatine+expensive urine
Racer X. my true name is disguised in order to protect my identity from the DMV
"Who now then bitches"- KORN "Anger is a gift"-Zack De la Rocha(RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE)
David Sprouse
> Dealah2 wrote:
> > >The July issue of MM2K (p. 172) cites a study that
> > >apparently found good resulty when combining HMB and creatine?
Actually, the study they cited did NOT show an additive effect of HMB and
creatine monohydrate (i.e., the effects of creatine+HMB were no greater
than the effects of HMB alone or creatine alone). Maybe this is why nobody
seems to be getting results from HMB (including me, when I tried it).
Presumably, most people who try HMB are already taking creatine and hence
wouldn't get any effect from it if the aforementioned study holds up. And
all of the previous scientific studies which show benefits from HMB were of
course done with HMB alone, not HMB+creatine.
--
David Sprouse, BS, HFI
ACSM Health/Fitness Instructor
Virginia Beach, VA
Hans Neber
> > > distributes HMB. So I am not surprised they said that. =)
>
> > But what about the cited studies? Do you think it is possible to have
> > these articles (published in peer reviewed journals) faked?
>
> sample was used ? Was there a control sample ? What are the demographics
> (maybe not the right word) of the sample ?
>
> The study may be valid, but still not very applicable to the market
> they're selling this product to.
>
> --
> Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com)
> http://musclememory.com/fogarty
I have not yet read the study, but I definitely will. However, what I have
read
is the article on HMB in J. Applied Physiology 81 (1996), pp. 2095-2104.
Even
though the study has not been fully independent (some of the authors work
with the
Institute the holds the patent for HMB, some work with MET-Rx) the study
has been set up "state-of-the-art". I can hardly imagine any study in a
peer-
reviewed reputed scientific journal that would not be at least blind
(mostly
double blind) and at least with a control sample (mostly even randomized).
It
is true though that a lot of studies are on mice, horses, dogs, etc.
(which are
probably not doing weight training in a gym).
The article reports of two studies done with 41 and 28 persons,
respectively.
There was a control group in study 2 and the study 1 had even been
randomized.
Study 1 had been done with untrained persons, study 2 on trained ones.
Both
studies had been done blind (not double-blind though).
Study 1 shows statistically significant increase in lean body mass and
weightlifting performance, whereas study 2 showed significant increase
over the control group in bench press only and merely trends (more
precisely,
the average differences with respect to the control group were all
positive, but
there was no significance in the statistics, i.e. it could have been "by
accident")
in the other exercises and gain in lean body mass. Both studies showed
significant
decrease in muscle proteolysis (breakdown?) as detected by blood and urine
tests.
Thus, the study at least has evidence that HMB can help beginners and
*may*
also help trained persons. It might be a good idea to keep on watching
further
studies.
Hans
Hans Neber
I need to have a closer look to the study. Does it say anything about HMB
alone
compared to Creatine alone? I have yet to find a study on Creatine. Anyone
knows one?
cdd...@ouray.cudenver.edu
Hans Neber (ne...@ttp.ch) wrote:
[snip]
: I have yet to find a study on Creatine. Anyone knows one?
Earnest, C.P.; Snell, P.G.; Rodriguez, R,; Almada, A.L. & Mitchell, T.L.
1995. "The effect of creatine monohydrate ingestion on anaerobic power
indices, muscular strength and body composition." Acta Physiol Scand
153:207-209.
Chris
SOG71
I know I'm probably asking for it given the postings I've read here, but
here goes; I have been competing naturally for 15 years. 18 mos. ago I
competed and won the Masters USA. I used creatine to prepare for that
show and came in at 190 at 7.2%. I just won the NPC Cal (masters) at a
bodyweight of 197 at 7.0%. The only thing I changed was I used HMB
consistently over the last year, and switched to primarily whey protein
for the past 6 mos. I am 45 years old, so gains are not going to come
easily now. The only thing I can figure is that most people get
discouraged when they don't experience the same type of effect that
creatine produces, and quit after a relatively short period. I didn't
really know what the actual gains were going to be untill I was at contest
weight. To say I was pleased is an understatement.