My DNP experience
Lyle McDonald
Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
DNP experience.
Now, before I start, a caveat: I am in no way endorsing the use of this
potentially deadly chemical to anybody. I used it because:
1. I'm a guinea pig
b. I'm fucking stupid and self-destructive right now over a recent
relationship that ended a week or two ago (it's a long ass story but
for 4 weeks I was dating an exotic dancer whose martial arts instructor,
bodybuilders, could stomp yours truly into the ground ex-boyfriend I
work with. Like I said, a long story)
c. I had some and didn't want to let it go to waste
DNP can fucking kill you. The side effects range from bad to worse.
Duchaine is suggesting combining it with insulin making this stack
potentially the most dangerous in the world of bodybuilding as either
chemical can kill you with one fuckup. DO NOT TAKE DNP LIGHTLY OR
AS A JOKE. If you have any doubts or concerns about taking it, do me
a favor, DON'T. This isn't a game.
Ok, time to get off the soapbox.
I have actually had the DNP for a while but only got around to using it
due to the afforementioned relationship situation. So, I got a capsule
filler at the local granola head store, got a gram scale at the smoke shop
(where all fine drug paraphenalia are sold). Actually, finding an accurate
scale was the hardest part of this whole thing. I called every school supply
store in the city and nobody knew where to get one. Then it ocurred to me:
hey, who else uses gram scales? Drug dealers, that's who. And, who sells
drug related stuff? Smoke shops. Balance beam scales are fucking
expensive, about $150 for the lowest model. I got the $30 50 gram model
since I can't imagine weighing out 500 grams of anything.
Ok, so dried the shit, cut it half and half with corn starch and put it into
capsules as instructed. Now I have a vitamin E bottle filled with
10 grams of DNP which is enough for about 25 days straight useage at
400mg per dose.
Had some left over cytomel in the drug droor in my room which is a necessary
additive as the body temp increase from DNP totally shuts down T4 -> T3
conversion in the liver. But, using Cytomel + DNP won't make you go
hypothyroidal since you are just bringing yourself up to normal levels.
Ok, so I started the DNP experiment last Sunday. I was kind of scared to
take that first pill since I did know what I was potentially getting myself
into with this shit. But, I must forge ahead. After stalling about 10', I
finally
just walked into my room (2 DNP capsules sitting on my bedstand) and slammed
them down without thinking about it. No fear, right? Took 100 mcg of Cytomel
along with it.
Now, I had originally planned to use DNP in conjunction with Bodyopus since
it's a diet I know I can live with. My first realization about DNP (other than
a. you sweat like a fucking pig. I had to run a fan in my room to keep from
spontaneously combusting and woke up every morning this week with
my sheets soaked in sweat. Now there are good ways and bad ways to soak
one's sheets with sweat. This wasn't a good way.
b. you stink like a fucking goat. The worst is training. It's like I was
exuding
this shit from my pores, a very chemical smell. Now, I have a pretty potent
smell anyhow when I train but this was a new level of stench. I'm surprised
my clients could put up with any of it.)
is that it makes you just crave carbs. I have been following a cyclical
ketogenic
diet for over 36 weeks with no food control problems whatsoever during the
week. I've starved myself on 900 calories no problem. Carbs don't even
enter my mind from Sunday night to Friday afternoon under normal
circumstances. And, seeing as I spent 2 weeks off of Bodyopus eating crap
over the holidays, all my carb cravings were well satiated.
But, I couldn't stay away from carbs. I'd be ok during the day but I'd
get these
cravings at midnight (taking DNP about 10 pm before bed) and go raid the pantry.
Well, 75% fat calories and high carbs do not mix. I asked Duchaine and he told
me that DNP raises levels of Neuropeptide Y (NPY) in the brain which causes
carb cravings so I have to conclude that DNP + ketogenic diets do not mix.
So, on Wednesday, I moved towards a calorie controlled (about 2000 cal)
Isocaloric/Zone type of diet which worked much better. I still tend to overeat
carbs and cals but, when your metabolic rate is up 50%, it's really not that
big a deal.
My second realization about DNP is that, as I expected, it makes you lethargic
as hell. DNP works by depleting Type I fibers of ATP so you have no energy for
anything low intensity (although training is generally not affected
assuming that
you can drag your ass to the gym in the first place). I just felt
shitty. Also, DNP
does not blunt hunger like ECA. But, again, at 50% increase in BMR, eating a
couple hundred more calories is no big deal.
So, like the dumbass I am, I figured I'd see what taking the ECA stack
would do to
me. My biggest fear was raising body temp too high. ECA/Clen and DNP work
through independent mechanisms and I wondered if the body temp increases
would be synergistic or not. I don't think they were but it was an interesting
experience.
The net effect of DNP is a depressant although it's not through central nervous
system modulation. ECA is a major CNS stimulant. Also, to be a real dumbfuck,
I added some yohimbe fuel to keep alpha receptors in check since ECA has some
alpha agonist activity as well (NB: overstimulating alpha agonists has a major,
major side effect. It makes your dick not work. I found this out the
hard (err,
soft) way. Just be warned).
Ok, I was feeling really bad by Thursday. DNP stays in your system (according
to Robert Ames) for 36 hours so I'm not convinced that Dan's dosing schedule
(every 24 hours) is ideal as there is a 12 hour period when you have twice
the recommended dose active in your body. But, this makes a nice failsafe to
avoid nasty side effects: nobody can take DNP more than 5 days straight
because you get tired of feeling like total shit all the time. It's possible
that dosing every 36 hours would allow you to take it indefinitely but this
isn't necessarily a good thing as the negative effects of constant ATP depletion
(like cataracts which apparently occurs from ATP depletion in your eyes) would
increase with time. So a dose every 24 might be ideal.
Anyway, like I said, I had lots o'DNP and some ECA in my system Thursday.
And I was drinking a lot of diet coke so caffeine intake was massive. And I
was severely dehydrated from sweating so much and DNP blunts your thirst
mechanism. All of this added up to giving me a resting heart rate of 132
(that's not a typo) beats per minute. I didn't get my blood pressure measured
but I"m sure it was high. I'm surprised I didn't have a fucking stroke. I
probably deserved to have one just for being a dumbass (nature's way of
thinning the herd. Darwinism at work for you).
So, the body composition record.
Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
---------------------------------------------------------
Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
Holy Shit! With minimal dieting (hell, no dieting), maybe 30' total of cardio
(warm-up and cool down before weights), about 2.5 hours total of weight
training this week, I still dropped almost 2 lbs of bodyfat. Now, the decrease
in lean body mass is somewhat worrisome but I attribute most of it to
dehydration. Since I was stronger on Friday than on Monday (same workout,
heavier poundages, same reps), I don't feel that I lost any of the small amount
of LBM I have. I don't really look like I lost that much fat but, seeing
as most
of what I've got is smack dab on my midsection, I'm not too surprised. This is
where the biggest change in skinfolds happened anyway which is fine with me.
I'm still not quite to cut abs but I'm getting there.
So, here's the plan for the next few weeks. I really don't want to do another
cycle of DNP just yet (esp since I don't have that much and haven't had time
to figure out where to get more). So, I figure it this way. I know I can
use Bodyopus with some ass kicking training in the gym to put on a decent
amount of LBM each week with minimal fat gain. So, I figure on doing a week
or three of Bodyopus training at above maintenance calories to put on a pound
or two of lean with maybe .5 lbs of fat. Then, I can use DNP or dieting to
cut down for a week or two and sort of stair step down in bodyfat while
increasing in muscle mass. I had considered doing 1 week of mass training
with Bodyopus alternated with 1 week of dieting with DNP and isocaloric
but I'm not sure the body can switch gears like that so quickly. We'll see.
Oh, my Bodyopus things are finally archived although it's not my WWW page.
Thanks to Dave Skinner (who started the lowcarb-l list for discussion of
training on lowcarb diets like BO/AD or the Zone and put my stuff on a page.)
My stuff is at: www.solid.net/lowcarb
To subscribe to the lowcarb-l list (Jeff Krabbe is there as well) send
email to "lowc...@solid.net" with the message 'subscribe' in the body.
Lyle McDonald, CSCS (if my CEU report gets to NSCA headquarters in time)
Will Brink
In article <lylemcd-0401...@ipt095.nash.edge.net>,
lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) wrote:
Lyle you are totally out of your fuckin mind! I hope nothing befalls you
that you cant recover from. I will say this, all that crazy shit your
doing from that breakup (and I have done that also) is suppose to make you
feel good, not even worse you bone head! Do a big cycle of Drol or
somthing. You will feel like Super man not super sick! Good Luck.
--
Will Brink
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - PT Barnum.
Robert Ames
>It's possible
>that dosing every 36 hours would allow you to take it indefinitely but this
>isn't necessarily a good thing as the negative effects of constant ATP depletion
>(like cataracts which apparently occurs from ATP depletion in your eyes) would
>increase with time. So a dose every 24 might be ideal.
The cataracts are likely caused by glycation. There are substances one
can take to avoid glycation.
Lysis
Breathtaking. I will not go into discussion of the Freudian term
"Thanatos"; let me just point out that our friend was pennypinching while
looking for a scale with which to weigh a potentially lethal substance.
Lysis
In article <5avibk$9...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, rsc...@ix.netcom.com(Robert Schuh) wrote:
>Lyle,
>I am at a loss as to why you are doing all of this shit to yourself? If
>you weigh in the 140 area, I would forget about low carbs, DNP, thyroid
>etc and just get a hold of a safe cycle like Deca and Anavar and eat a
>good old mod carb, low fat diet. Why feel like shit for nothing? Wake
>up Lyle! I am on dialysis 3X/week and eat all sorts of junk food and I
>would still kill you in a show! I appreciate your intelect, but you are
>out of control. What do you get from torturing yourself? I little less
>bodyfat? Come on man! Get a life and live it. Getting lean is not worth
>fucking your self up.
He is in transference.
Robert Schuh
Lyle,
I am at a loss as to why you are doing all of this shit to yourself? If
you weigh in the 140 area, I would forget about low carbs, DNP, thyroid
etc and just get a hold of a safe cycle like Deca and Anavar and eat a
good old mod carb, low fat diet. Why feel like shit for nothing? Wake
up Lyle! I am on dialysis 3X/week and eat all sorts of junk food and I
would still kill you in a show! I appreciate your intelect, but you are
out of control. What do you get from torturing yourself? I little less
bodyfat? Come on man! Get a life and live it. Getting lean is not worth
fucking your self up.
Robert Schuh
"There Can Be Only One!"
Miles, Trane, Hendrix and Jaco are Gods!!
rsc...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.elitefitness.com/athlete/rschuh/rschuh.html
Al Bardo
On 4 Jan 1997 16:21:58 GMT, lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald)
wrote:
I think the take home message here is that no one is worth killing
yourself for--or even attempting to. Also, the cataracts aren't from
"ATP depletion," it's from the rampant free radical-induced oxidative
reactions precipitated from DNP. Using this stuff may indeed be
potently thermogenic, but it's also great for inducing oxidative DNA
damage that could lead to cancer and premature aging. Great stuff!
--
Al Bardo
Al Bardo
"Thanatos" is the Greek name for the mythical personification of
death, used by Freud to represent the death instinct. It is used quite
appropriately in describing those who resort to DNP for fat-loss
purposes.
--
Al Bardo
Robert Anderson
Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
: Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
: get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
: DNP experience.
With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
frame. How tall are you anyway?
Bob
: So, the body composition record.
: Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
: ---------------------------------------------------------
: Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
: Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Anderson http://www.mae.princeton.edu/~cfdlead/
Aerospace Engineering ande...@harrier.princeton.edu
Princeton University PGP key avail. upon request
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Roberts
> lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) wrote:
>
> > Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
> > get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
> > DNP experience.
> >
> > Now, before I start, a caveat: I am in no way endorsing the use of this
> > potentially deadly chemical to anybody. I used it because:
> > 1. I'm a guinea pig
[snip]
> > c. I had some and didn't want to let it go to waste
> >
> > DNP can fucking kill you. The side effects range from bad to worse.
[snip]
> >
> > a. you sweat like a fucking pig. I had to run a fan in my room to keep from
> > spontaneously combusting and woke up every morning this week with
> > my sheets soaked in sweat. Now there are good ways and bad ways to soak
> > one's sheets with sweat. This wasn't a good way.
> > b. you stink like a fucking goat. The worst is training. It's like I was
> > exuding
> > this shit from my pores, a very chemical smell. Now, I have a pretty potent
> > smell anyhow when I train but this was a new level of stench. I'm surprised
> > my clients could put up with any of it.)
[snip]
> > My second realization about DNP is that, as I expected, it makes you lethargic
> > as hell. DNP works by depleting Type I fibers of ATP so you have no
> energy for
> > anything low intensity (although training is generally not affected
> > assuming that
> > you can drag your ass to the gym in the first place). I just felt
> > shitty.
[snip]
> > Ok, I was feeling really bad by Thursday. DNP stays in your system (according
> > to Robert Ames) for 36 hours so I'm not convinced that Dan's dosing schedule
> > (every 24 hours) is ideal as there is a 12 hour period when you have twice
> > the recommended dose active in your body. But, this makes a nice failsafe to
> > avoid nasty side effects: nobody can take DNP more than 5 days straight
> > because you get tired of feeling like total shit all the time. It's possible
> > that dosing every 36 hours would allow you to take it indefinitely but this
> > isn't necessarily a good thing as the negative effects of constant ATP
> depletion
> > (like cataracts which apparently occurs from ATP depletion in your eyes) would
> > increase with time. So a dose every 24 might be ideal.
[snip]
> > mechanism. All of this added up to giving me a resting heart rate of 132
> > (that's not a typo) beats per minute. I didn't get my blood pressure measured
> > but I"m sure it was high. I'm surprised I didn't have a fucking stroke. I
> > probably deserved to have one just for being a dumbass (nature's way of
> > thinning the herd. Darwinism at work for you).
> >
> > So, the body composition record.
> > Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
> > Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
> >
> > Holy Shit! With minimal dieting (hell, no dieting), maybe 30' total of cardio
> > (warm-up and cool down before weights), about 2.5 hours total of weight
> > training this week, I still dropped almost 2 lbs of bodyfat.[snip]
There are easier ways to lose 2 lbs of fat in a week....
But thanks for a very informative post.
-- Bill
DDuchaine
>With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
>better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP?
Actually the combination of DNP and Humalin R would allow
both (mass and fat loss). And for some (as yet) unexplained
there seems to be a significant muscle mass increase when
ceasing DNP. One user gained 30 pounds within 2 weeks
and less than 10 pounds was fat. One postulation is an
increase of mitochandia in the skeletal muscle.
MDGADPC
>Actually the combination of DNP and Humalin R would allow
>both (mass and fat loss). And for some (as yet) unexplained
>there seems to be a significant muscle mass increase when
<ceasing DNP. One user gained 30 pounds within 2 weeks
>and less than 10 pounds was fat. One postulation is an
>increase of mitochandia in the skeletal muscle.
When you are in a catabolic state, your body (if allowed) will block the
catabolic pathways and try to increase protein synthesis rate.
When the factor causing the catabolism is stopped, your body will be in a
state where catabolism is very low and synthesis is very high.
This is what one can see once a contest diet is stopped.
That is probably the explanation. Unfortunatly, we do not know how to
maintain that state very long. It only shows us this is possible.
So, one day we will be able to manipulate all this.
@aurora.eexi.gr Lysis
In article <Pine.OSF.3.95.970108193520.30942A-100000@dogwood>,
Bill Roberts <wrob...@grove.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
>> lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) wrote:
>> > So, the body composition record.
>> > Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------
>> > Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
>> > Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
>> >
>> > Holy Shit! With minimal dieting (hell, no dieting), maybe 30' total of
> cardio
>> > (warm-up and cool down before weights), about 2.5 hours total of weight
>
>
>There are easier ways to lose 2 lbs of fat in a week....
>
not to mention losing 3 lbs. of lean tissue.....
Guillermo Gonzalez
That is my theory. I had a friend who lost 40 lbs from a severe bout of
mononucleosis, well after he recovered, he gained back all 40, plus an
extra 10-15 lbs!
I bet there is a way of cycling diet and overtraining to achieve similar
results but on a smaller scale.
Guillermo
Andrew Lewis
Bill Roberts wrote:
>
> > lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) wrote:
> > > Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold
> > >(I'll get one out there before too long), how about the first
> > >installment of my DNP experience.
[Lyle's hellacious experience snipped]
> There are easier ways to lose 2 lbs of fat in a week....
> But thanks for a very informative post.
> -- Bill
Agree with Bill in thanks for the post. Someone has be a kamikaze-guineau
pig to let us know what Duchaine has been up to recently. Also, I'm not
sure there were much easier ways to lose pounds given that Lyle seemed to
reach some kind of limit with Bodyopus. Or at least being more militant
(Duchaine's word) in adhering to bodyopus must have seemed, on the front
end, a whole lot more difficult than taking some capsules. Also, in line
with Will Brink's comments,, trashed love (or something closely
resembling it) can compress a whole lot of brazen self-destructiveness
into a week. Glad you're still with us, Lyle. How many such posts do
you think you will englighten us with? I'm interested, yes, but for your
sake I hope you don't earn enough experience to share *too* much more
with us.
--Andrew
Tom Goodwin
In article <19970109195...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dduc...@aol.com (DDuchaine) wrote:
>>With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
>>better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP?
>
>Actually the combination of DNP and Humalin R would allow
>both (mass and fat loss). And for some (as yet) unexplained
>there seems to be a significant muscle mass increase when
>ceasing DNP. One user gained 30 pounds within 2 weeks
>and less than 10 pounds was fat. One postulation is an
>increase of mitochandia in the skeletal muscle.
10# of fat in TWO weeks?
what the fuck was there person doing....living at fuckin McDonalds?
Peace,
Tom
Lyle McDonald
In article <Pine.OSF.3.95.970108193520.30942A-100000@dogwood>, Bill
Roberts <wrob...@grove.ufl.edu> wrote:
> There are easier ways to lose 2 lbs of fat in a week....
>
> But thanks for a very informative post.
Ok, this is the only time I'm gonna say this: some of the things that I do
have absolutely not one thing to do with bodyfat loss, etc. I like to
play and find shit out. That means being a guinea pig. And, someday I
will work with athletes in some regards. I'm not so naive as to think
that the drug problem in sports will have gone away by that point. And,
I'm not gonna be one of these dickhead, sports docs or MD's reading
verbatim from some biased, bullshit, poorly referenced paper written by
some other dickhead, biased sports doc. Personal experience is the only
way to find out what this does. And, we can debate the usefulness of N=1
but it sure as hell beats N=0 in my mind.
Lyle McDonald, CSCS
Brian Duda
I agree with Lyle here. Sometimes its fun to experiment, even if on ones
self. I know alot of people can't understand why someone would want to do
this, and will reply with curiosity killed the cat, etc.. However, when you
have an interest in a certain area, its nice to experience it hands on in
some way, and for many, this experience is meaningful enough to outweigh the
risks.
Brian
Big Bill
anderson@harrier (Robert Anderson) wrote:
>Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
>: Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
>: get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
>: DNP experience.
>With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
>better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
>about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
>frame. How tall are you anyway?
>Bob
Answer please while you can still stand up...
BB
There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the
blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or
the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't
complete idiots and those of us who are.
Tim Fogarty
Brian Duda (bjd...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> I agree with Lyle here. Sometimes its fun to experiment, even if on ones
> self. I know alot of people can't understand why someone would want to do
> this, and will reply with curiosity killed the cat, etc.. However, when you
> have an interest in a certain area, its nice to experience it hands on in
> some way, and for many, this experience is meaningful enough to outweigh the
> risks.
But when the risks are so high, and the results so insignificant (and
accomplishable in so many safer ways), one has to ask why one's
self-defense mechanisms have yet to kicked in.
--
Tim Fogarty (fog...@netcom.com) (fog...@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov)
@aurora.eexi.gr Lysis
In article <32d68d96...@news.bridge.net>, gonz...@bridge.net (Guillermo
Gonzalez) wrote:
> That is my theory. I had a friend who lost 40 lbs from a severe bout of
>mononucleosis, well after he recovered, he gained back all 40, plus an
>extra 10-15 lbs!
EBV-induced anabolism; there's a new concept!
Brian Duda
Tim Fogarty wrote:
>
> Andrew Lewis (lew...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu) wrote:
> > Also, I'm not
> > sure there were much easier ways to lose pounds given that Lyle seemed to
> > reach some kind of limit with Bodyopus.
>
> And why ?
>
> If you really want to lose those last ounces of fat, may I suggest
> something a little safer, like crystal or coke.
How could you say that crystal and coke are safer than DNP? Sure, they
won't cook you to death if you take too much, but they have many other
effects that can ruin ones life and make it a psychological and
physical hell. They are also extremely addictive. This is not true
for DNP. There is no addictive or pleasant high to it. While you
can cook yourself to death with the wrong dosage, this is not a problem
for someone with enough skill to measure out the correct dosage. There
is of course the long term concern about the free radical production
stimulated by it. Keep in mind though, that DNP is not something that
you use long term, nor would desire to. It is used to achieve a certain
short-term fat loss goal, and it does its job quickly, so you don't
need to use it long term.
Brian
Tim Fogarty
Andrew Lewis (lew...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu) wrote:
> Also, I'm not
> sure there were much easier ways to lose pounds given that Lyle seemed to
> reach some kind of limit with Bodyopus.
He said he was at 150 pounds ! How much weight does he need to lose ?
And why ?
If you really want to lose those last ounces of fat, may I suggest
something a little safer, like crystal or coke.
Tim Fogarty
Brian Duda (bjd...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> There is of course the long term concern about the free radical production
> stimulated by it.
The problem is in the definition of long term. Free radical production
may be a short term problem too.
> Keep in mind though, that DNP is not something that
> you use long term, nor would desire to. It is used to achieve a certain
> short-term fat loss goal, and it does its job quickly, so you don't
> need to use it long term.
And after you stop, you'll gain it back. Will you then want to do it again?
Will Brink
In article <5b1fc1$1...@cnn.Princeton.EDU>, anderson@harrier (Robert
Anderson) wrote:
> Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
> : Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
> : get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
> : DNP experience.
>
> With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
> better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
> about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
> frame. How tall are you anyway?
I tried to make this point to him also. I recommended a good cycle of drol
and deca. He would feel much better! The last time I was feeling really
crappy about this cunt that I broke up with who then started dating the
local drug dealer, a cycle of drol, deca, and clen was just what the
doctor ordered. I went from 178 to 205 and felt great! Ahhhhhhh the good
ol days..... :-)
>
> Bob
>
> : So, the body composition record.
> : Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
> : ---------------------------------------------------------
> : Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
> : Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Anderson http://www.mae.princeton.edu/~cfdlead/
> Aerospace Engineering ande...@harrier.princeton.edu
> Princeton University PGP key avail. upon request
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Jaime Phillips
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Andrew Lewis wrote:
[snip]
> into a week. Glad you're still with us, Lyle. How many such posts do
> you think you will englighten us with? I'm interested, yes, but for your
> sake I hope you don't earn enough experience to share *too* much more
> with us.
>
> --Andrew
Agreed. I don't know you personally, Lyle, but I like you from what
you've written, and it'd be nice to keep you around a while. :) I hope
your next contribution is on something relatively benign, say "My
moderate-dosage Anavar experience" ? :)
Jaime
Bruce Kneller
Brian Duda <bjd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Tim Fogarty wrote:
>>
>> Andrew Lewis (lew...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu) wrote:
>> > Also, I'm not
>> > sure there were much easier ways to lose pounds given that Lyle seemed to
>> > reach some kind of limit with Bodyopus.
>>
>> He said he was at 150 pounds ! How much weight does he need to lose ?
>> And why ?
>>
>> If you really want to lose those last ounces of fat, may I suggest
>> something a little safer, like crystal or coke.
>
>won't cook you to death if you take too much, but they have many other
>effects that can ruin ones life and make it a psychological and
>physical hell. They are also extremely addictive. This is not true
>for DNP. There is no addictive or pleasant high to it. While you
>can cook yourself to death with the wrong dosage, this is not a problem
>is of course the long term concern about the free radical production
>you use long term, nor would desire to. It is used to achieve a certain
>short-term fat loss goal, and it does its job quickly, so you don't
>need to use it long term.
>
Before you tout DNP, I suggest you _thoroughly research it out_
(along with other phenolic compounds).
I'll toot my own horn here and say, "wait for my MMI article to
appear on the newstands Feb 2".
DNP has many immediate potential side effects that have little to
do with taking too much. It does a real job on your mouth and
stomatitis is not uncommon.
-BK
--
Lyle McDonald
In article <wbrink-1201...@cust72.max18.boston.ma.ms.uu.net>,
wbr...@earthlink.net (Will Brink) wrote:
> In article <5b1fc1$1...@cnn.Princeton.EDU>, anderson@harrier (Robert
> Anderson) wrote:
>
> > Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
> > : Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll
> > : get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
> > : DNP experience.
> >
> > With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
> > better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
> > about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
> > frame. How tall are you anyway?
I'm 5'7" and all you guys are still missing the whole damn point on this.
I wanted to test DNP for the sake of testing not so much for bodyfat
loss. I did it for 2 weeks and know how to use it and how it works.
Gonna go back to ketogenic mass phase and put on some LBM to shut you
bozos up about this.
Lyle
Robert Schuh
In <lylemcd-1401...@ipt239.nash.edge.net>
Lyle,
Why a ketogenic mass phase?? NO ONE got big by eating like that!! Do
you have some kind of irrational fear of carbohydrates? I promise that
if I had two people trying to gain weight and I had one on a
"ketogenic" diet and one on a more balanced macronutrient diet, the
balanced dieter would do better. Name one big time bodybuilder who used
a ketogenic diet to get big! I still don't know of any top bodybuilders
who use ketogenic diets constistently while dieting either. I have just
seen far too many plain baked potatos and chicken breasts eaten by
dieters to think otherwise!
uwaa...@cc.memphis.edu
don't do it doesn't mean it won't work. BTW, check out dan's references to
"Rebound Training" and see if you can't gain on a ketogenic diet.
>
Peace,
Andy Austin
Kinetic Fitness Systems
Don't wear Calvin Klein until he FEEDS HIS MODELS!
Poor Drug Free powerlifter looking for Supplement Sponsors!
Lyle McDonald
In article <85297856...@cisdp39.demon.co.uk>, kr...@cityscape.co.uk
(Big Bill) wrote:
> anderson@harrier (Robert Anderson) wrote:
>
> >Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
> >With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
> >better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
> >about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
> >frame. How tall are you anyway?
> Answer please while you can still stand up...
I already answered this stupid thread and here it is for the last time. I am
5'7"
155 lbs
about 7.5% bodyfat
I am fucking happy with the way I look right now. Maybe 5-10 lbs more lean
would be nice and I'm workign on it.
I did not take fucking DNP to get more cut, I took it to experience it
first hand. I'm curious by nature. And, you mothefuckers can ask
yourself this: would you rather I just said "Umm, you should do this
because it's what I read you should do" or try it on myself (with
concommitant risks to me and me only) and report on it in the way I did to
help anybody else kamikaze enough to do it use it safely?
I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
answers my question. So, add me to the list of people, you morons have
chased off mfw. I'm outta here for good. No more updates, no more
reports, no more information on anything. You're on your own.
Lyle McDonald, CSCS
Bob Mann
lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald) wrote:
>I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
>answers my question. So, add me to the list of people, you morons have
>chased off mfw. I'm outta here for good. No more updates, no more
>reports, no more information on anything. You're on your own.
>
>Lyle McDonald, CSCS
That is really too bad Lyle.
I did not read a lot of your posts as I am not on a ketogenic diet.
The ones I did read were intelligent and well thought out.
I may not have always agreed with you but I always respected your opinion
and was grateful for the time you put in.
I am sure even most of your most vocal opponents, and I don't think there
were that many, would also have to admit that you put in a lot of work.
If you are serious about this then I thank you for what you have done.
If there is some doubt then let me say this.
Those who were ragging on you in this thread were doing so mainly out of
concern for your health and safety.
They would not have done so if they did not care.
If you find that certain people annoy you or that you are tired of
defending yourself on a particular topic, just quit responding to it after
you have made your point.
If you don't reply everyone else will lose interest in nagging you and move
on to someone or something else.
Although I am not going to say you did a smart thing here I will say that
hearing a first hand account of your experiment was enlightening.
It is nothing I would ever have considered but hopefully it might dampen
someone elses enthusiasm for trying it.
Going through the physical abuse you did and smelling like shit is not
worth it for losing a couple of quick pounds and without your posts we
would not have had anything to go by other than cryptic or sarcastic posts
from some of the others.
I still think you were a bit foolish to try, but I thank you for doing it.
Now...go have some fun and lighten up. |3^)
Bob Mann
This is my sig.
It has absolutely nothing to say.(Me)
Robert Anderson
Lyle,
I can't speak for the group, but I would hate to see someone die
because they were "curious." That's a weak impetus for doing
something, especially something life threatening, IMO.
If the criticism you got bothered you (apparently!), get over it.
Most of the responses were concerned people looking out for you, it
seemed to me. I don't see what's so offensive about that personally.
Bob
Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
: I did not take fucking DNP to get more cut, I took it to experience it
: first hand. I'm curious by nature. And, you mothefuckers can ask
: yourself this: would you rather I just said "Umm, you should do this
: because it's what I read you should do" or try it on myself (with
: concommitant risks to me and me only) and report on it in the way I did to
: help anybody else kamikaze enough to do it use it safely?
: I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
: answers my question. So, add me to the list of people, you morons have
: chased off mfw. I'm outta here for good. No more updates, no more
: reports, no more information on anything. You're on your own.
:
: Lyle McDonald, CSCS
--
Tim Fogarty
Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
> I already answered this stupid thread and here it is for the last time. I am
> 5'7" 155 lbs about 7.5% bodyfat
> I am fucking happy with the way I look right now. Maybe 5-10 lbs more lean
> would be nice and I'm workign on it.
but at 7.5% bodyfat, you only have 11 pounds of fat to lose. You can't
lose it all. sounds like anorexia.
> I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
> answers my question.
It is not inane to ask why hasn't your survival mechanism kicked in ?
Bob Mann
fog...@netcom.com (Tim Fogarty) wrote:
>Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
>> I already answered this stupid thread and here it is for the last time. I am
>> 5'7" 155 lbs about 7.5% bodyfat
>> I am fucking happy with the way I look right now. Maybe 5-10 lbs more lean
>> would be nice and I'm workign on it.
>
>but at 7.5% bodyfat, you only have 11 pounds of fat to lose. You can't
>lose it all. sounds like anorexia.
>
Hopefully he meant more lean mass.
Jaime Phillips
On 18 Jan 1997, Lyle McDonald wrote:
[snip]
> I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
> answers my question. So, add me to the list of people, you morons have
> chased off mfw. I'm outta here for good. No more updates, no more
> reports, no more information on anything. You're on your own.
>
> Lyle McDonald, CSCS
Gee, remind me never to express concern for anyone's health again. I was
*way* out of line.
--
Jaime Phillips
phil...@nevada.edu
IronWomen Homepage: http://www.nevada.edu/home/9/phillipj/iron/
"I want to be so big that even *Dr. Bigtime* says, 'Why the HELL would
anyone want to be that big and muscular?!? That's disgusting!'" :)
Al Bardo
On 18 Jan 1997 13:59:13 GMT, lyl...@edge.edge.net (Lyle McDonald)
wrote:
>In article <85297856...@cisdp39.demon.co.uk>, kr...@cityscape.co.uk
>(Big Bill) wrote:
>
>> anderson@harrier (Robert Anderson) wrote:
>>
>> >Lyle McDonald (lyl...@edge.edge.net) wrote:
>
>> >With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
>> >better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
>> >about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
>> >frame. How tall are you anyway?
>
>> Answer please while you can still stand up...
>
>I already answered this stupid thread and here it is for the last time. I am
>5'7"
>155 lbs
>about 7.5% bodyfat
>I am fucking happy with the way I look right now. Maybe 5-10 lbs more lean
>would be nice and I'm workign on it.
>
>I did not take fucking DNP to get more cut, I took it to experience it
>first hand. I'm curious by nature. And, you mothefuckers can ask
>yourself this: would you rather I just said "Umm, you should do this
>because it's what I read you should do" or try it on myself (with
>concommitant risks to me and me only) and report on it in the way I did to
>help anybody else kamikaze enough to do it use it safely?
>
>I guess the sheer volume of inane answers and responses to this post
>answers my question. So, add me to the list of people, you morons have
>chased off mfw. I'm outta here for good. No more updates, no more
>reports, no more information on anything. You're on your own.
>
>Lyle McDonald, CSCS
Good, one less demented guy posting on this group. He says he "likes
the way he looks," then uses a potent and toxic thermogenic agent to
"experience it." Talk about morons!
--
Al Bardo
Bill Roberts
On 15 Jan 1997, Lyle McDonald wrote:
> > > With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a
> > > better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP? Unless you're
> > > about 5' tall 150 lb is on the light side, even with a very light
> > > frame. How tall are you anyway?
>
> I'm 5'7" and all you guys are still missing the whole damn point on this.
> I wanted to test DNP for the sake of testing not so much for bodyfat
> loss. I did it for 2 weeks and know how to use it and how it works.
> Gonna go back to ketogenic mass phase and put on some LBM to shut you
> bozos up about this.
>
> Lyle
Gain on!
-- Bill