CPR
Bobbie Rivere
my fourth or fifth recertification in CPR. Thank God I have never had to
use it, although I could if I had to. However, some very interesting
questions were raised in the class. Even the instructor was involved in
these discussions.
While we would not hesitate to give immediate CPR to family members or
friends, the question arises would you want to give mouth to mouth on a
total stranger? Secondly, if there is blood at the scene, would you want
to be touching it ungloved and unprotected? Sadly, the answer is
no. In today's society, most of us would fear acquiring disease if we
had to use mouth to mouth. However, if you start CPR, and don't
continue, you can be sued for abandonment. Therefore, if you are not
going to pursue it, you should not assess the patient. Put him/her in
the recovery position and run for help. Once you start the ABCs (airway,
breathing, circulation,) you must continue until a) you are too exhausted
to continue b) the EMTs arrive c) the patient recovers and walks away.
If you are determined to use your CPR knowledge, then it is suggested
that you carry a special "first aid kit" at all times. This should
include a plastic mask and blowing tube (available from the heart
assoc.and the red cross), rubber gloves and possibly even goggles. The
moral dilemma one finds oneself in in today's world is very real. Is it
worth taking a risk to resuscitate a person you don't know who could have
any number of diseases which can be transmitted to you? Suppose you have
a small cut on your mouth and you give mouth to mouth resuscitation? You
could be at risk for any number of diseases.
I am not making a recommendation or a call here. I know that it was a
very disturbing discussion since you are called upon to make difficult
judgement calls. In many cases, the alternative to immediate CPR is
death to the patient or victim. On the other hand, you, the rescuer, may
be putting yourself at risk. EMTs are prepared with masks and gloves as
a matter of course. We lay people are not, so it is a moral dilemma.
Bobbie
------------------------------- ---------------------------------
* Bobbie Rivere * * For the record: I'm not *
* Merrick, NY USA * * getting older - I'm getting *
* bob...@panix.com * * better. Have a nice day :) *
------------------------------- ---------------------------------
Ken Raich
>
> If you are determined to use your CPR knowledge, then it is suggested
> that you carry a special "first aid kit" at all times. This should
> include a plastic mask and blowing tube (available from the heart
> assoc.and the red cross), rubber gloves and possibly even goggles. The
> moral dilemma one finds oneself in in today's world is very real. Is it
> worth taking a risk to resuscitate a person you don't know who could have
> any number of diseases which can be transmitted to you? Suppose you have
> a small cut on your mouth and you give mouth to mouth resuscitation? You
> could be at risk for any number of diseases.
>
clubs have masks available in areas of aerobic activity and assure that
their employees are properly trained in CPR?
When I received my aerobic instructor certification, everyone needed to
have a current CPR certification. I don't think things have changed
since then. However, masks just aren't normally available if a crisis
does occur. Masks cost from $5 to $20, depending on their construction
and valve (the one-way valve prevents the patient's exhaled breath from
exiting into the person administering CPR). Masks are readily available
from most medical supply firms or can be ordered by mail order (call
Armstrong Medical at (800)323-4220 for a catalog).
Why don't we try to convince our employers to obtain these life-saving
items to always have them immediately available?
--
rai...@ix.netcom.com (Ken Raich)
Dallas/Ft. Worth Calendar of running events at:
http://www.geopages.com/Colosseum/2056/dfwraces.html
Exercise may not add one more day to my life,
but it adds more life to each and every day!
Larry DeLuca
people are CPR-certified?]
The vast majority of certified aerobics instructors and personal trainers
keep their CPR current at all times. AFAA and ACE require it for
certification, and also require you to submit a copy of your current
CPR card when you recertify.
ACSM does not require that you present your card, but it stated that your
certification is not considered valid if you let your CPR certification
lapse, and it is considered part of your professional responsibility
to maintain it.
I don't remember what NSCA's policy is. I think I had to send in a copy
with my registration for the exam, but I don't remember.
[Now what about masks and disease transmission...]
The Red Cross and the American Heart Association both state that the
risk of transmission of serious infectious diseases via CPR (such as HIV, but
also including others, such as hepatitis) is very low, but encourage
those who are concerned to respect their concern and to prepare for
the eventuality by having the appropriate mask on hand.
They are extremely inexpensive, and the Red Cross provides training in
their use as part of their normal certification process.
If it is a serious concern for you as an instructor, or as a participant
who is CPR-trained, you should make it a priority to purchase one. I
have not yet myself, but intend to (more for the simple worry of someone
vomiting in my mouth than the unlikely possibility of disease transmission).
I carry a first aid kit in my bag at all times, simply because I feel
it's important to do so.
[What about the clubs themselves???]
By hiring nationally-certified instructors clubs ensure that their
personnel are CPR-certified (I have had clubs ask periodically for
proof of certification for fitness instruction as well as CPR, and strongly
support the idea).
If it is a concern for you as a participant (and it should be) it is
worth asking about before you sign up. I have seen the full gamut from
the (few) clubs that don't ask for certification to the other extreme where
they provide free in-house CPR certifications on a regular basis.
Remember to ask about these important safety concerns! In an industry
like ours that is currently almost completely unregulated, consumer
pressure can have an enormous impact on the standards for safety and
professionalism that are accepted within the field.
larry...
--
--------"It's my personal opinion that people need to be more clear about what
is fact and what is in fact their personal opinion." -- me
Bobbie Rivere
: Ken Raich <rai...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
: >Why don't we try to convince our employers to obtain these life-saving
: >items to always have them immediately available?
: We had this same discussion during my last recertification, and as a
: result, have put one of these masks and rubber gloves in the aerobics
: room. I know I'll certainly feel a lot better about administering CPR
: with this protection. We didn't consider the eye shield though.
: That's a good idea.
: June
: "Life is what happens to you while you are making other plans."
Hi. I believe you are referring to the post I made on CPR. My
instructor was excellent, and she really did pose the question of a moral
dilemma of whether or not to do CPR on a stranger. The first aid kit she
recommended came with a bunch of things that you just gather together,
including sanitary napkins for absorbing blood if necessary. I was
stupid not to buy the mask for $15. She was selling them. I may just
call the Heart Association and buy one. I already have the breathing
tube, and since my husband is a dentist, I have plenty of rubber gloves.
She made a suggestion that you use an empty film cannister to dump the
gloves in. If your club doesn't provide these items, I suggest you put
together your own kit. At least bring it with you to your aerobics
class. I would also leave it in the car since anyone likely to be hurt
or in need of CPR in my home (God forbid), would not be a stranger.
As I said before, it is a real dilemma.
bobbie
Mark Bagdy
<<SNIP>>
: While we would not hesitate to give immediate CPR to family members or
: friends, the question arises would you want to give mouth to mouth on a
: total stranger? Secondly, if there is blood at the scene, would you want
: to be touching it ungloved and unprotected? Sadly, the answer is
: no. In today's society, most of us would fear acquiring disease if we
: Bobbie
<<SNIP>>
===========================================================================
A very real issue. Blood? In a current First Aid book, **every page** is
noted that, "blood is a hazardous substance." Treat blood as you would
treat a caustic acid.
However, (without any substantiating data) in our Aerobics classes, CPR
will most likely be done in a blood free environment. However, there is
the issue of bodily fluids.
SUGGESTION: STOCK FACE SHIELDS IN YOUR CLASSROOM!
CARRY A FACE SHIELD IN WALLET/POCKETBOOK!
The "Resusci"(tm) Face Shield "for Protected mouth-to-mouth resuscitation"
by Laerdal Medical Corp. is the one I carry with me. I received it at the
end of one CPR class. Actually, I feel instructors should distribute them
at the end of every class. Ask for them! They are slightly larger than
one of those handi-wipe packets. It is a single use shield placed over
the victim's mouth. If the victim is about to regurgitate, quickly remove
the shield (noting which side was yours) and replace.
Also, the packet has the ABCs pictured on the back!
Nope, they aren't gloves, masks, etc. but it's a simple, inexpensive
insurance policy.
Mark
--
=======================================================================
"The above opinions are mine alone, and do not reflect any
of the many opinions of my employer."
Mark Bagdy
ba...@hpmtaa.lvld.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.
Manufacturing Test Division -- Home of the HP 3070 Test System
Loveland, CO.
========================================================================
David LaPorte (Biochem)
: Bobbie Rivere (bob...@panix.com) wrote:
: <<SNIP>>
: : While we would not hesitate to give immediate CPR to family members or
: : friends, the question arises would you want to give mouth to mouth on a
: : total stranger? Secondly, if there is blood at the scene, would you want
: : to be touching it ungloved and unprotected? Sadly, the answer is
: : no. In today's society, most of us would fear acquiring disease if we
: : Bobbie
: <<SNIP>>
: ===========================================================================
: A very real issue. Blood? In a current First Aid book, **every page** is
: noted that, "blood is a hazardous substance." Treat blood as you would
: treat a caustic acid.
: However, (without any substantiating data) in our Aerobics classes, CPR
: will most likely be done in a blood free environment. However, there is
: the issue of bodily fluids.
: SUGGESTION: STOCK FACE SHIELDS IN YOUR CLASSROOM!
: CARRY A FACE SHIELD IN WALLET/POCKETBOOK!
This is a good suggestion. However, my most recent CPR instructor told us
that saliva is overrated as a source of disease transmission, at least
for AIDS. She stated that, unless you have open sores in your mouth,
you would have to drink about a gallon of the victims saliva to be in
real danger.
Dave LaPorte
U. Minn.
dav...@lenti.med.umn.edu
Denise Howard
: This is a good suggestion. However, my most recent CPR instructor told us
: for AIDS. She stated that, unless you have open sores in your mouth,
: you would have to drink about a gallon of the victims saliva to be in
: real danger.
I'm not willing to bet my life on that assertion. A shield/mask it is
for me.
Denise
--
Denise Howard | PROGRAM, tr. v., An activity similar to
Mountain View, CA | banging one's head against a wall, but
den...@best.com | with fewer opportunities for reward.
NeXTMail welcome! | http://www.best.com/~deniseh
The Goddess in Chains
(dangers of CPR)
In my last update class we were told that AIDS is not as high a risk as
the possibilty of TB or Hepititis. Our club has masks stored right next
to the stereo. liesl
--
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David LaPorte (Biochem)
: David LaPorte (Biochem) (dav...@lenti.med.umn.edu) wrote:
: : This is a good suggestion. However, my most recent CPR instructor told us
: : that saliva is overrated as a source of disease transmission, at least
: : for AIDS. She stated that, unless you have open sores in your mouth,
: : you would have to drink about a gallon of the victims saliva to be in
: : real danger.
: I'm not willing to bet my life on that assertion. A shield/mask it is
: for me.
I certainly agree that this is the best solution. However, it's probably
a good idea to think about what you would do if you were caught without
one. There's a good chance that you won't know whether the victim has
an infectious disease. Your decision could determine whether the victim
lives or dies. IMO, it's best to come to terms with this issue BEFORE
the crisis, not during it.
Dave LaPorte
U. of Minn.
dav...@microbe.med.umn.edu