labor laws pertaining to EMS
One Tired EMS Dude
I need to know where to look to find some info on US labor laws
pertaining to 24 hr shifts.I saw some discussion here before regarding
"rest time" that the employer must provide,and the provision for
overtime if you work through your rest time.My current employer
pays a "flat rate"for the shift,regardless of how much rest you get
during that shift.When confronted on a certain day(was on the road 20
out of 24) the response was a burst of laughter and a reminder that
I could be easily replaced.If I could qoute chapter and sub sections
of the CFR and be able to back this up with a call to the labor board,
I may be able to change that cavalier attitude to one of true concern
for their most valuable asset-US.
If anyone knows of the sections in the code or at least where to
look(don't tell me to call the labor board-I want to find the info
first) please E-mail me or post it in this group.
Thanks in advance
John Haggerty
EMT-Cardiac Tech
Versed
I'm with ya on this. Try
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi
I grunted through ~20 calls a shift. Our boss drilled it in all of our heads
that we were expendable. He used to have employee meetings just to see who
the disgruntled workers were. We had to fight just to get enough time to eat
our meals.
We got paid for 13hrs, then at night we would only get paid for the time we
were up runnin calls, anything over 3hrs (up time) we would get paid for the
full 8
Lisa K. Larson
I don't get it. Everyone is so quick to call a lawyer and sue someone.
Whatever happened to talking?
>1. I would make a phone call to the Federal Department of
>Labor, in your state capital. Explain your situation, even remain
>anonymous if you must. Also ask specific questions on how the Fair
>Standards Labor Act (FSLA) applies to you. You just might be pleasently
>suprised.
>
>2. Contact a good attorney who has experience with the Federal
>FSLA (Fair Standards and Labor Act.) You may get representation for
>free, because legal costs can be recouped in an FSLA Law suit. If you
>do not know a good lawyer, call the President of the Nearest IAFF
>affiliate. Why an FSLA suit? You can recoup two years back pay with
>intrest and penalties (double what is owed) under an FSLA suit. And in
>a case which involves illegal "sleep time," this can be an extremly
>expensive suit.
>
>Good luck -- JQW...@grolen.com
Sherry Whitmarsh
In a message dated 97-08-07 13:13:59 EDT, you write:
> See this was basicly the way that it was for us, but we only got paid the
> "chinese" overtime for the hours past ten at night. Our reg pay was based
on
> 14.25 hours per day.
> Bryan Mayo, NREMT-P
> Greenwood County EMS
************************************************
Bryan,
You're really peeking my interest now. I, along with many others, worked
years for a company that did not pay for "sleep time" even though we were
"required" to be in quarters. We signed out at 11PM and did not sign in
again until 7AM. The only exception was "chinese" hours up to and including
the actual time out on the call or 2 hours max. If we received less than 5
hours of sleep due to call out, we were allowed to sign in for the whole
night. This did not happen frequently so I worked 24 and was paid for 16.
However, I was paid for overtime for anything over 40 hours. Which occured
quite often, not including "sleep time" call outs.
We have all often thought about disputing this type of pay system but have
been told repeatedly that because it was a private service and not city or
municipal that we didn't qualify under the same laws. However, I also
worked for another private in this state that did pay for the full shift. We
are also obviouly not represented by any unions here.
If you can supply any info that may help I would greatly appreciate it. It
was always my understanding that if you were required to be in quarters than
you must be paid for the full 24 hours. Only if you were a "call" response
could you be refused this pay but must be paid a call stipend as well as the
actual call time.
Some enlightenment would be wonderful. Thanks in advance.
Sherry Whitmarsh
Bryan Mayo
We just went through the lawsuite of overtime payed for hours worked. We
still have a suite pending for sleep time.
Since the lawsuite we have gotten paey for 24 hrs now. I think the problem
that we have is that there are laws that govern the fire and PD, but not so
much EMS.
Bryan Mayo, NREMT-P
Greenwood County EMS
Bryan Mayo
See this was basicly the way that it was for us, but we only got paid the
"chinese" overtime for the hours past ten at night. Our reg pay was based on
14.25 hours per day.
Bryan Mayo, NREMT-P
Greenwood County EMS
At 02:23 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote:
> I'm with ya on this. Try
>http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/multidb.cgi
>I grunted through ~20 calls a shift. Our boss drilled it in all of our heads
>that we were expendable. He used to have employee meetings just to see who
>the disgruntled workers were. We had to fight just to get enough time to eat
>our meals.
>
>We got paid for 13hrs, then at night we would only get paid for the time we
>were up runnin calls, anything over 3hrs (up time) we would get paid for the
>full 8
>
>
>>
Jerry Ringgold
One Tired EMS Dude wrote:
>
> I need to know where to look to find some info on US labor laws
> pertaining to 24 hr shifts.I saw some discussion here before regarding
>
> "rest time" that the employer must provide,and the provision for
> overtime if you work through your rest time.My current employer
> pays a "flat rate"for the shift,regardless of how much rest you get
> during that shift.When confronted on a certain day(was on the road 20
> out of 24) the response was a burst of laughter and a reminder that
> I could be easily replaced.If I could qoute chapter and sub sections
> of the CFR and be able to back this up with a call to the labor board,
> I may be able to change that cavalier attitude to one of true concern
> for their most valuable asset-US.
> If anyone knows of the sections in the code or at least where to
> look(don't tell me to call the labor board-I want to find the info
> first) please E-mail me or post it in this group.
>
> Thanks in advance
> John Haggerty
> EMT-Cardiac Tech
John,
This is a big problem. A problem we experienced at a hospital I worked
at 8 years ago had a labor board review and made adjustments. During
that episode with the US Department of Labor - Division of Wage and
Hour, the investigator shared he was aware of the fact that different
offices understood the code in different ways. This might still be a
problem. If you say, for instance, the Atlanta Office and the Houston
Office reviewing similar cases and both offices do not understand the
code in the same wat, this procatice opens the door for review inside
the Department of Labor. It might be of benefit to write your senator or
House representative for assistance. I'm not sure simply getting the
code or having it in your hand will solve your problem. Intent of
federal codes mean one thing and what is done in practice is another.
After all, Federal codes are written is such a way as to have wide
application in a variety of situations and applicable to all states.
Another thing is to request an internal review from the US Department of
Labor in how your problems are handled in offices across the US. I do
not know, but there may be a provision in the Federal Codes that allows
or permits a "home rule" type situation.
I will keep a close watch on this issue since it is a very important
one.
Jerry Ringgold, Paramedic
10950 Lexington Steet
P. O. Box 263
Huntingdon, TN 38344
E-Mail: ring...@iswt.com
Jerry Ringgold
One Tired EMS Dude wrote:
>
> I need to know where to look to find some info on US labor laws
> pertaining to 24 hr shifts.I saw some discussion here before regarding
>
> "rest time" that the employer must provide,and the provision for
> overtime if you work through your rest time.My current employer
> pays a "flat rate"for the shift,regardless of how much rest you get
> during that shift.When confronted on a certain day(was on the road 20
> out of 24) the response was a burst of laughter and a reminder that
> I could be easily replaced.If I could qoute chapter and sub sections
> of the CFR and be able to back this up with a call to the labor board,
> I may be able to change that cavalier attitude to one of true concern
> for their most valuable asset-US.
> If anyone knows of the sections in the code or at least where to
> look(don't tell me to call the labor board-I want to find the info
> first) please E-mail me or post it in this group.
>
> Thanks in advance
> John Haggerty
> EMT-Cardiac Tech
I am sorry for this being so long, but our reading population is wide.
Your area will be covered by a regional office. Also, I added some pages
from the US Department of Labor's pages. Hope you enjoy them. It would
be of interest for someone having problems to condense their concerns to
writing and send them to more than two regional offices for their
comments. It would be of interest to compare how each office views the
problem and what solutions are recommended.
This information can be found at :
http://interwork.sdsu.edu/wage_hour/dol.html
Thanks,
Jerry M. Ringgold, Paramedic
10950 Lexington Street
P. O. Box 263
Huntingdon, TN 38344
E-Mail: ring...@iswt.com
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(218) 720-5448
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1100 Commerce St., Room 4650
Dallas, TX 75242
(214) 767-8401
MSHA Rocky Mountain District Office
P.O. Box 25367
Denver, CO 80225
(303) 231-5465
MSHA Western District Office
3333 Vaca Valley Parkway, S. 600
Vacaville, CA 95688
(707) 447-9844
Longshore and Harbor Workers
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Room C-4315
200 Constitution Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20210
(202) 219-8572
District NO. 1 (MA, ME, NH, VT, RI, and CT)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
One Congress St., 11th Fl.
Boston, MA 02114
(617) 565-2103
District NO. 2 (NY, NJ, and Puerto Rico)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
P.O. Box 249
201 Varick St., Room 750
New York, NY 10014
(212) 337-2033
District NO. 3 (PA, DE, and WV)
OWCP,DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
P.O. Box 7336
Gateway Building, Room 13180
3535 Market St.
Philadelphia, PA 19104
(215) 596-5570
District NO. 7 (LA and AR)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Room 13032
701 Loyola Ave.
New Orleans, LA 70113
(504) 589-3664
District NO. 8 (TX, OK, and NM)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
One South Green Building, Room 105
12600 N. Featherwood Dr.
Houston, TX 77034
(713) 481-9750
District No. 10 (IL, IN, IA, KS, MI, MN, MO, NE, OH, and WI)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Room 800
230 South Dearborn St.
Chicago, IL 60604
(312) 353-8883
District NO. 18 (That part of the State of California south of the
northern boundaries of the counties of San Luis Obispo, Kern, and
San Bernardino)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
S. 720
401 E. Ocean Boulevard
Long Beach, CA 90802
(213) 514-6226
District NO. 40 (Processes cases under the District of Columbia
Workmen's Compensation Act of 1928)
Labor Standards
D.C. Department of Employment Services
1200 Upshur St., N.W.
Washington, DC 20011
(202) 576-6265
District NO. 4 (MD and DC)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Federal Building, Room 1026
31 Hopkins Plaza
Baltimore, MD 21201
(410) 962-3677
District NO. 5 (VA)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Federal Building, Room 212
200 Granby Mall
Norfolk, VA 23510
(804) 441-3071
District NO. 6 (FL, NC, KY, TN, SC, GA, AL, and MS)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Edward Ball Building, Fl. 10
214 Hogan St.
Jacksonville, FL 32202
(904) 791-2881
District No. 13 2-4471
Dallas Office
OWCP
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
Griffin Square Building, Room 407
525 Griffin Square
Dallas, TX 75202
(214) 767-4712
District NO. 15 (Hawaii)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
P.O. Box 50209, Room 5108
300 Ala Moana Boulevard
Honolulu, HI 96850
(808) 551-1983
District NO. 16 (UT, WA, and WY)
OWCP/DLHWC
U.S. Department of Labor, ESA
1111 3rd. Ave., S. 620
Seattle, WA 98101
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This resource is (c) 1996 by, and produced by the U.S. Government
Office of the Assistant Secretary for Policy (OASP). Please note that
other federal agencies besides the Department of Labor enforce laws
and regulations that affect employers. Please consult appropriate
agencies for further information. The information contained in
this publication is not to be considered a substitute for any
provisions of the laws enforced by the Department of Labor or for
any regulations issued by the Department.
Find thousands of resources to help you in business, on the
World Wide Web at Smart Business Supersite, http://www.smartbiz.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. Department of Labor
Wage & Hour Division
Fact Sheet No. SDDO-22
Hours Worked Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
This fact sheet provides general information concerning what constitutes
compensable time under the
FLSA. The Act requires that employees must receive at least the minimum
wage and may not be
employed for more than 40 hours in a week without receiving at least one
and one-half times their
regular rate of pay for the overtime hours. The amount employees should
receive cannot be
determined without knowing the number of hours worked.
Definition of "Employ"
By statutory definition the term "employ" includes "to suffer or permit
to work." The workweek
ordinarily includes all time during which an employee is necessarily
required to be on the employer's
premises, on duty or at a prescribed work place. "Workday", in general,
means the period between
the time on any particular day when such employee commences his
"principal activity" and the time
on that day at which he/she ceases such principal activity or
activities. The workday may therefore
be longer than the employee's scheduled shift, hours, tour of duty, or
production line time.
Application of Principles
Employees "Suffered or Permitted" to work: Work not requested but
suffered or permitted to be
performed is work time. For example, an employee may voluntarily
continue to work at the end of
the shift to finish an assigned task or to correct errors. The reason is
immaterial. The hours incurred
in this screnario is working time and is compensable.
Waiting Time: Whether waiting time is time worked under the Act depends
upon the particular
circumstances. Generally, the facts may show that the employee was
engaged to wait (which is work
time) or the facts may show that the employee was waiting to be engaged
(which is not work time).
For example, a secretary who reads a book while waiting for dictation or
a fireman who plays
checkers while waiting for an alarm is working during such periods of
inactivity. These employee
have been "engaged to wait."
On-Call Time: An employee who is required to remain on call on the
employer's premises is
working while "on call." An employee who is required to remain on call
at home, or who is allowed
to leave a message where he\she can be reached, is not working (in most
cases) while on call.
Additional constraints on the mployee's freedom could require this time
be compensated.
Rest and Meal Periods: Rest periods of short duration, usually 20
minutes or less, are common in
industry (and promote the efficiency of the employee) and are
customarily paid for as working time.
These short periods must be counted as hours worked. Bona fide meal
periods (typically 30 minutes
or more) generally need not be compensated as work time. The employee
must be completely
relieved from duty for the purpose of eating regular meals. The employee
is not relieved if he\she is
required to perform any duties, hether active or inactive, while eating.
Sleeping Time and Certain Other Activities: An employee who is required
to be on duty for
less than 24 hours is working even though he\she is permitted to sleep
or engage in other personal
activities when not busy. An employee required to be on duty for 24
hours or more may agree with
the employer to exclude from hours worked bonafide regularly scheduled
sleeping periods of not
more than 8 hours, provided adequate sleeping facilities are furnished
by the employer and the
employee can usually enjoy an uninterrupted night's sleep. No reduction
is permitted unless at least 5
hours of sleep is taken.
Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs: Attendance at lectures,
meetings, training programs
and similar activities need not be counted as working time only if four
criteria are met, namely: it is
outside normal hours, it is voluntary, not job related, and no other
work is concurrently performed.
Travel Time: The principles which apply in determining whether time
spent in travel is compensable
time depends upon the kind of travel involved.
Home To Work Travel: An employee who travels from home before the
regular workday and
returns to his\her home at the end of the workday is engaged in ordinary
home to work travel, which
is not work time. Home to Work on a Special One Day Assignment in
Another City: An employee
who regularly works at a fixed location in one city is given a special
one day assignment in another
city and returns home the same day. The time spent in traveling to and
returning from the other city is
work time, except that the employer may deduct\not count that time the
employee would normally
spend commuting to the regular work site.
Travel That is All in the Day's Work: Time spent by an employee in
travel as part of his\her
principal activity, such as travel from job site to job site during the
workday, is work time and must
be counted as hours worked.
Travel Away from Home Community: Travel that keeps an employee away from
home overnight
is travel away from home. Travel away from home is clearly work time
when it cuts across the
employee's workday. The time is not only hours worked on regular working
days during normal
working hours but also during corresponding hours on nonworking days. As
an enforcement policy
the Division will not consider as work time that time spent in travel
away from home outside of
regular working hours as a passenger on an irplane, train, boat, bus, or
automobile.
Typical Problems
Problems arise when employers fail to recognize and count certain hours
worked as compensable
hours. For example, an employee who remains at his\her desk while eating
lunch and regularly
answers the telephone and refers callers is working. This time must be
counted and paid as
compensable hours worked ecause the employee has not been completely
relieved from duty.
Where To Obtain Additional Information
This publication is for general information and is not to be considered
in the same light as official
statements of position contained in the regulations. Copies of Wage and
Hour publications may be
obtained by contacting the nearest office of the Wage and Hour Division
listed in most telephone
directories under U.S. Government, Department of Labor.
Interwork Institute
5850 Hardy Avenue Suite 112
San Diego, CA 92182-5313
Telephone: (619) 594-4220 Fax: (619) 594-4208
Send any questions or problems regarding this service to
webm...@interwork.sdsu.edu
This information last updated September 10, 1996
John Webb
EM>I don't get it. Everyone is so quick to call a lawyer and sue someone.
EM>Whatever happened to talking?
EM>>1. I would make a phone call to the Federal Department of
EM>>Labor, in your state capital. Explain your situation, even remain
EM>>anonymous if you must. Also ask specific questions on how the Fair
EM>>Standards Labor Act (FSLA) applies to you. You just might be pleasently
EM>>suprised.
EM>>
EM>>2. Contact a good attorney who has experience with the Federal
EM>>FSLA (Fair Standards and Labor Act.) You may get representation for
EM>>free, because legal costs can be recouped in an FSLA Law suit. If you
EM>>do not know a good lawyer, call the President of the Nearest IAFF
EM>>affiliate. Why an FSLA suit? You can recoup two years back pay with
EM>>intrest and penalties (double what is owed) under an FSLA suit. And in
EM>>a case which involves illegal "sleep time," this can be an extremly
EM>>expensive suit.
EM>>
EM>>Good luck -- JQW...@grolen.com
You are correct, if adults could just talk, be fair and honest about
issues, then you would not need lawyers. Unfortunetly, many ems
employers view the employee as a neccesary nuisence that gets in the way
of thier profit.
I believe "sleep time" is illegal. To deny an employee their right to
fair and equitable wages is unethical. Also, some employeers will think
nothing of firing you, if you should start "trouble" by talking about
fair wages. So if you are in a situation where your employeer is not
paying your fair and legal wages, and doing so willfully, then just
"talking" to them will not change thier minds.
Willfully with holding your legal pay is theft. Suing is appropriate.
JQW...@Grolen.com
Kurt Ullman
In article <97080713263...@emout20.mail.aol.com>, Sherry Whitmarsh
<EMS...@AOL.COM> wrote:
>We have all often thought about disputing this type of pay system but have
>been told repeatedly that because it was a private service and not city or
>municipal that we didn't qualify under the same laws. However, I also
>worked for another private in this state that did pay for the full shift. We
>are also obviouly not represented by any unions here.
First of all who told you? If the service, then find your own labor
law attorney and/or call the closed wage and hour div./Dept. of Labor office
and ask them. Although I am not a labor attorney, it seems that most
exemptions from such rules go the other way most often. In otherwords, if
there is going to be an exemption, it will be for the other governmental unit
instead of the private types.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Talking to politicians about the economy is like talking with eight- year- olds about sex. They have heard all the words, but they haven't a clue.
--Michael Aronstein
EMS2MAX
Kurt,
I have already begun the process of investigation and thank everyone for
all the input on who, where,etc...
The worst part of it is that the SOB running this service also fired me
back in May with predjudicial and descriminating factors involved.
Attorney..........you bet! This is going to get deeper than I thought but
it will be well worth it.
I'll keep ya'll posted!
Sherry
EMS2MAX
alias, Crash Witmarsh
PGBFH
NREMT-I
Ffengineer
Hi everybody,
I'm new to this newsgroup and have kind of just been reading along for a
while, till now, I also will be watching this thread very closely, as I
work both for several fire services and a private ambulance service.
Working 24 on 48 off. At the private we do get paid to sleep (if its slow
enough), same with the FD. I've allways wondered what the labor laws were
about this. Jerry, your research has answered some questions, THANKS for
doing the leg work on this, your resource infomation will be kept on file
by this FF.
If you get other info that is not posted to the group please e-mail me at
the below.
Sherry, I wish you Good luck
Thanks
Stay Safe All
Thomas V. Rosan
FF/EMT-B/FAE
ffemt...@juno.com
ffeng...@aol.com
jerry....@usspg.eds.com
> again until 7AM. The only exception was "chinese" hours up to and including
> the actual time out on the call or 2 hours max.
What are "chinese hours"?
> If we received less than 5
> hours of sleep due to call out, we were allowed to sign in for the whole
> night.
Was that actual sleep time, or time in quarters?
- Jerry
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
P. Jeff Dickerson
In a message dated 97-08-13 08:41:11 EDT, you write:
<<
The worst part of it is that the SOB running this service also fired me
back in May with predjudicial and descriminating factors involved.
Attorney..........you bet! This is going to get deeper than I thought but
it will be well worth it.
I'll keep ya'll posted!
Sherry
>>
Go get em Girl !!!!!!
Jeff
Sherry Whitmarsh
In a message dated 97-08-14 13:21:30 EDT, you write:
>>We signed out at 11PM and did not sign in again until 7AM. The only
exception
was "chinese" hours up to and including the actual time out on the call
or
2 hours max.>>
> What are "chinese hours"?
"Chinese" hours are those hours that were spent doing RECON missions in
"Animal Land' (the parking lot behind the racetrack). During major race
weekends there are about 100,00+ people that come in RV's, campers, rental
trucks outfitted with pool tables and all the beer and sex they could pass
out, etc... Several of us were scheduled out in rotation to do checks and
minor first aid type deals. We were required to be at base all night but if
it wasn't our rotation we were still on "stand-by" without benefit of paid
time.
>>If we received less than 5 hours of sleep due to call out, we were allowed
to
sign in for the whole night.>>
> Was that actual sleep time, or time in quarters?
Actual sleep time. Again, the crew was required to stay at the base all
night but was not paid for the entire shift unless we had less than 5 hours
actual sleep time. We only signed in for the actual time out on the call
after 11PM. This was standard for all 911 crews covering night shift even
during race weekends. Even though that crew may get pulled to cover RECONS.
As you can see, organization of resources there was, at best, a farce!
Does this clarify your questions??
Sherry
Jake
Bryan Mayo wrote:
>
> We just went through the lawsuite of overtime payed for hours worked. We
> still have a suite pending for sleep time.
>
> Greenwood County EMS
I would prefer a suite too! I don't necessarily wish to share a room
with my current partner as he snores horribly, so a suite with two rooms
would be nice. As far as a law suite, I dont know any lawyers I'd like
to spend the night with either. (Except Susan Dey when she played a
lawyer on LA Law!)
(BTW...this is a joke)
Jake
Bryan Mayo
Spelling is not a requirement in the South to become a paramedic. hehehehehhe
Don Isenberg
I've read thru the replies to this post and the one thing I did not
see mentioned was the idea of becoming part of a Union (no flames
please)
When I first started working for a Vollie/Paid non-profit Ambulance
Dept I was working 12 on Monday - Friday and every other weekend "on
30 minute pager call in" with no overtime for the weekends only
straight pay. Since we became part of 1199P/SEIU about 8 years ago I
now work a week on and a week off, anything over 80 hours in a two
week pay period is Overtime. In that time I have become one of the
highest paid EMT basic in my area, in some cases even more than the
non-union depts EMT-P's. This may not happen to you if you join a
Union but on the other hand considering how some of you are treated
what do you have to lose? Ok to be honest maybe your job if the
attempt to form a Union fails, but on the other hand you have more to
gain.
What do you have to gain?
1. A strong one for all voice to the boss.
2. A contract that says when and for what you'll be paid for.
3. Job protection, if your contract is written right
4. Fair and equal wage increases for every one doing the same job,
which means the boss's butt buddy may have to take a pay cut;-]
What your going to hear from the boss
1. We can't afford a Union, we'll have to close.
That's what we heard and we are still here.
2. If you go on strike we'll just hire more people.
How many extra shifts are you doing now? If it's like here
well I just pulled 60 hours OT last pay period because of all the
people beating down the door to work here.
3. Anyone trying to form a Union will be fired.
Not likely, Federal Laws prevent the boss from fireing someone
for trying to form a Union. A word to the wise however keep your noses
clean during this time.
4. You guys are to small to join a Union
We formed our Union with 8 employees
If your interested in forming a Union E-mail me and I'll supply some
contact numbers.
[don]
>>I need to know where to look to find some info on US labor laws
If anyone does your Union would, they can afford the high priced
lawyers that know the laws.
Bob Anderson
See if you can get a copy of the case
No. C-84-408-RJM
tried in The United States District Court
For the Eastern District of Washington (State).
(brief was dated 08/06/84)
The case concerned Michael J. Taylor, et al., Plaintiffs,
vs.
Mercy Ambulance Service of Spokane, Inc, Defendants.
The case was brought against Mercy by the Law firm of Frank and Rosen,
Attorneys at Law, (Seattle), specializing in labor law. As I
understand it, Steven Frank formerly was a mediator for the U.S. Labor
Department (early eighties I believe).
The brief I am sitting here looking at cites several other cases, but
the underlying defense strategy by the defendants was that persons in
our positions are "Professionals" and therefore are exempt from the
hourly conditions set forth under the Fair Labor Standards Act
(aka FLSA). This furthers advances the strategy that since we are now
"Professionals", the employer can now pay us on a salary bases not
hourly. In doing so the employee's are not eligible / entitled to
time and a half overtime pay, and they can stack as many unlimited
work/duty hours on top of us as the employer wants to.
Ooopps. Nice try Farley!
Unfortunate for Mercy, it was proven that EMT/Paramedics were not
considered "Professional" status under the language of the FLSA (don't
flame me, I wasn't even born when the law was originally written).
Then there was strategy #2. This consisted of EMT/Paramedics should be
considered like truck drivers, something like you get payed by the
job, not the hours doing it.
Ooohh, sorry, wrong again. This strategy in fact backfired. First, as
it was explained to me, ambulance work/workers were moved under the
FLSA in 1954, so again they are not like "truck drivers". Second,
because Federally funded Interstate highways were being used for the
purpose of conducting business (i.e. transporting patients), this was
one of the reasons used to allow the case to be filed under Federal
jurisdiction. Other reasons included Mercy's billing of Health Care
Finance Administration (HCFA), (known to us as Medicare/Medicaid/SSA).
Now, the reason I have all this information is because in 1988, I
filed a complaint against my employer for violations of the FLSA. The
complaint listed the fact that:
1) I was being paid both a hourly and salary wage (go figure),
2) for two years, my bi-weekly pay did not follow any set strategy
(it seemed they couldn't even train the monkey to do payroll.
For that two years I was being shorted $25-$75/check).
3) I showed the Fed's a pay stub showing 9 different pay scales for
doing the same job during a two week period.
Several other factors took effect here. First, I took my complaint to
the Federal Department of Labor - Division of Wage and Hour. Second,
my (guesstimated) 1 hour meeting lasted all afternoon (4 hours).
Third, the moment I walked into DoL-W&H's office, anything my employer
tried doing to "punish" me (i.e. firing, radical [negative] change of
work conditions, etc.,) was illegal, and allowed me restitution under
the law.
Now for all those out there in cyber land who want to hold hands and
chant how much they love their boss, go right ahead. The people I was
dealing with knew exactly what they were doing, and they didn't care
that our paychecks were screwed up. I still can't figure out if they
were just plain arrogant, malicious, or both.
The fact of the matter is, after the employer was notified it was
under investigation, they couldn't scramble fast enough to get us back
under the complete functioning (protection) of the FLSA.
But, it was to late. The way the Labor investigator explained it to me
was that, in the Labor Dept.'s view, the reason for forcing an
employer to pay time and a half is because it is a _PENALTY_ for
making an employee work in excess of 40 hours a week. Consequently, if
there is that much work, then the employer needs to hire more
employees (kinda of self serving for the Labor people I feel. The more
people they can force you to hire, the better their stats look.).
Now, I realize the information I have presented here is dated (duh!).
The case I cited was tried in 1984 (Mercy lost, forced into selling
their company), my particular situation took place in 1988 (the upper
managers were fired, employees received a settlement), and heaven only
knows what if any changes have been made to the laws (specifically
FLSA).
There are many other developments that may have taken place. For
example, I have heard of one technique called "annualized salary". I
don't understand the specifics, but I have been told that it is poison
and to stay away from it if at all possible.
All of what I have talked about here took place during the
corporate/worker firings - pardon me - "doowwnnsizing", where managers
attended conferences on how to get around the law(s). But of coarse,
none of that takes place today.
One last disclaimer. Everything presented here is as a _TESTIMONIAL_.
I am not a lawyer, so I wouldn't even think of presenting anything as
legal advice. BUT, as a testimonial, I can state this happened to me,
this is what I was told, etc. etc. etc.
But, for right now the salmon are biting, so I'm going fishing.
Later.....
On 11 Aug 1997 16:51:47 GMT, ems...@aol.com (EMS2MAX) wrote:
>Kurt,
>
>I have already begun the process of investigation and thank everyone for
>all the input on who, where,etc...
>
>The worst part of it is that the SOB running this service also fired me
>back in May with predjudicial and descriminating factors involved.
>Attorney..........you bet! This is going to get deeper than I thought but
>it will be well worth it.
>
>I'll keep ya'll posted!
>
>Sherry
>
>
>
>EMS2MAX
>alias, Crash Witmarsh
>PGBFH
>NREMT-I
...Bob
Leigh Darnall
Bryan Mayo wrote:
>
> Spelling is not a requirement in the South to become a paramedic. hehehehehhe
Yestiday I coon't spell Paremedik and now I is one!
Lee dArNELL