FLUOROLASTOMEC or VETON
JimSteamer
it said that the stuff us used in the plastic and rubber car parts, and
when the stuff burns it forms a strong acid. If you get the acid on you,
the only treatment is AMPUTATION.
I got a report that one fireman responding to a car fire, got this on his
bunker gear, it ate through his protective clothing, and got to his skin,
and eventually killed him.
If you have any information you can share, please do. We need to know.
Paul Repacholi
> Has anyone heard of fluorolastomec or veton. I read a report about it,
> it said that the stuff us used in the plastic and rubber car parts, and
> when the stuff burns it forms a strong acid. If you get the acid on you,
> the only treatment is AMPUTATION.
IFF you can get flouropolymers to burn or break down, the release
hydro-flouric acid, HF. This is NOT good stuff to come in contact
with at all.
If contact areas are not treated, it _could_ result in a need
for amputation, but there seems to be a UL flavour to what you
have posted.
--
~Paul
+61 (09) 257-1001
pr...@yarrow.wt.uwa.edu.au ( preferred ) 1 Crescent Rd,
zrep...@cc.curtin.edu.au Kalamunda,
West Aust 6076
Don Sepanski
Thsi rumor has been floating around in the fire d servioce for the
past year or so. It has been adequately addressed by the automotive
industry to most peo;ples satisfaction. I don't have any particular
references but I beleive GM has issued various responses to this.
I am a Lt. in a Fire Department and I have seen the response and it
no longer troubles me. There are too many of these rumors floating
anround the Fire Service.
--
Don Sepanski
ad...@detroit.freenet.org No cute little sayings!
Damien Andrew Beeby
:>Has anyone heard of fluorolastomec or veton. I read a report about it,
We did some revision training on auto fires the other week, and this issue
was brought up. From memory of the lecture, and from chem classes, they
char/burn/melt to a back form, and in the process release Hydrofluoric
Acid. As for the treatment you mentioned, amputation sounds a little
harsh, (yes, I use HF acid at work too). If his death was caused to HF,
it was most likely due to inhalation more than anything. Standard
approach to burning vehicles that we make is: If possible wear B.A, try
and stand upwind of vehicle, use fog pattern to draw fumes and gases away
while extinguishing fire. Of course, B.A. isnt always an option due to
time restraints (If there is someone trapped in the vehicle, are you going
to take that extra time before you try and rescue them?) Sure, there is
all this occupational health and safety and stuff these days, but it is
YOUR decision, to be made individually for each seperate incident.
Damien
--
/*=========================================================================+
| Damien [IronEagle] Beeby Swinburne Institute of Technology |
| Iron...@gpo.swin.edu.au Associate Diploma of Lab. Tech. |
| Firefighter, Lab. Technician, Radio DJ, DoD: 3805680 |
+=========================================================================*/
Brandon Guest
> Has anyone heard of fluorolastomec or veton. I read a report about it,
> it said that the stuff us used in the plastic and rubber car parts, and
> when the stuff burns it forms a strong acid. If you get the acid on you,
> the only treatment is AMPUTATION.
> I got a report that one fireman responding to a car fire, got this on his
> bunker gear, it ate through his protective clothing, and got to his skin,
> and eventually killed him.
> If you have any information you can share, please do. We need to know.
STOP STOP STOP.....
This was a bad joke that has only got worse with time. There is no such
thing as fluorolastomec or veton. As a matter of fact, veton is just a
bastardization of VITON- the stuff they make hazmat suits out of.
Several years ago, someone made up a bogus msds for this material and
sent it to someone. Since then it has made the fax machine/copier
circuit and just doesn't go away. This ranks right up there with the
kid who was dying and wants to get in the Guiness Book of Records for
the most 'get well cards' (he already set the record and he is no longer
dying).
Let this thread die. Again, there is no such thing as fluorolastomec or
veton- I can't believe that this has surfaced again.
Brandon
Chief, Hamel Vol. Fire Dept.
HazMat Specialist
--
H. Brandon Guest | bgu...@empros.com
Empros Power Systems Control | Siemens Energy and Automation, Inc.
2300 Berkshire Lane North | Voice (612) 553-4529
Plymouth, MN 55441-3694 | Fax (612) 553-4359
Scott Traurig
(Don Sepanski) wrote:
> Thsi rumor has been floating around in the fire dservioce for the
> past year or so...
> ...I am a Lt. in a Fire Department and I have seen the response and it
> no longer troubles me. There are too many of these rumors floating
> anround the Fire Service.
The same type of rumors also surface from time to time with regard to
air bags and the supposed "deadly" chemicals released upon their
activation. All I can say is _give_me_a_break_! While there is probably
good evidence to show that the byproducts of air bag activation might be
irritating to some (I had one person say that the powder used to keep the
folds of the bag from sticking together made him sneeze like crazy after
an accident) they are hardly life threatening.
We once found a patient involved in a fairly severe MVA sitting in the
back of a police cruiser. When we asked how she came to be there, the cop
proudly volunteered how he had moved her from her vehicle so that she
would not be harmed by the dreaded air bag residue. Needless to say, we
were pissed, and the cop somewhat taken aback when told that he had
needlessly compromised the patient's c-spine because of an urban legend.
Scott Traurig, NREMT-I/D/Pharm
Merrimack (NH) Ambulance Rescue Service
Sleepwalker
: Thsi rumor has been floating around in the fire d servioce for the
: past year or so. It has been adequately addressed by the automotive
: industry to most peo;ples satisfaction. I don't have any particular
: references but I beleive GM has issued various responses to this.
I didn't see all of the original post.. but It looks like this is the
same net.legend post that has been around for several years.. about
something in vehicle fires causing a FF to have a limb amputated. I've
been online for about 5 yrs, and this story popped up about 3 yrs ago and
made it's way around FIDO and the other nets.
I'm sure there is some truth about the substance being hazardous (is
there anything in a vehicle that isn't hazardous when it burns) but this
story was an exageration.
beth dodge emt-p
do...@pcnet.com
RGH Software
941...@edna.swin.edu.au (Damien Andrew Beeby) wrote:
> ... Of course, B.A. isnt always an option due to
> time restraints (If there is someone trapped in the vehicle, are you going
> to take that extra time before you try and rescue them?)
SAQ time - I hope this isn't your department's official policy. Rash
decisions (like entering a known hostile enviromnent without appropriate
protective clothing and devices) often result in two patients being seen
where only one could be seen before...
-----
* "Will Program for Coffee - EMail for Details" *
* Richard G. Harper Internet rgha...@mail.msen.com CompuServe 76670,110 *
* EMT/Paramedic in Michigan since 1978 and darned proud of it!! *
****** Opinions expressed above are mine - no one else owns up to them ******
Churton Budd
-> >
-> > Has anyone heard of fluorolastomec or veton. I read a report
-> about it, > it said that the stuff us used in the plastic and rubber
-> car parts, and > when the stuff burns it forms a strong acid. If you
-> get the acid on you, > the only treatment is AMPUTATION.
-> STOP STOP STOP.....
->
-> This was a bad joke that has only got worse with time. There is no
-> such thing as fluorolastomec or veton. As a matter of fact, veton is
-> just a bastardization of VITON- the stuff they make hazmat suits out
-> of.
-> Let this thread die. Again, there is no such thing as fluorolastomec
-> or veton- I can't believe that this has surfaced again.
-> HazMat Specialist
I was intrigued by the misinformation about these chemicals so I looked
them up in our Emergency Department computer's Database. The Database
called MicroMedix lists hazzardous and industrial chemicals. The first
chemical: Fleurolastimec does not exist. Nor does anything close.
The second chemical VETON does have an entry. It states:
VETON from DUPONT (MISSPELLING OF VITON)
FLUROELASTOMER POLYMER
MAGNESIUM OXIDE
CALCIUM HYDROXIDE
MT. CARBON BLACK
NOTE:
MANUFACTURER STATES THE FOLLOWING:
EXOTHERMIC DECOMPOSITION OF THE UNCURED FLUROELASTOMER CAN OCCUR
AT TEMPERATURES OF 600 DEGREES F AND HIGHER, PRODUCING HYDROGEN
FLOURIDE. EVOLUTION OF HF FROM CURED PARTS IS UNLIKELY UNLESS
THE VULCANIZATE IS SEVERELY DEGRADED.
SMALL AMOUNTS (0.004G / 100G OF FLUROELASTOMER) OF HYDROGEN
FLUORIDE MAY BE EVLOVED AT TEMPERATURES OF 392 DEGREES F.
PRODUCTS OF COMBUSTION INCLUDE HYDROGEN FLUORIDE, CARBONYL
FLUORIDE, CARBON MONOXIDE, FLUROFORM, VUNYLIDENE FLUORIDE,
HEXAFLUOROPROPYLENE, AND LOW MOLECULAR WEIGHT FLUOROCARBON
FRAGMENTS.
IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT ANYONE HANDLING RESIDUES OF VITON POLYMER
OR PARTS INVOLVED IN A FIRE WEAR NEOPRENE GLOVES TO AVIOD
CONTACT WITH RESIDUES; DISCARD GOVES AFTER USE.
Also this database gives the medical interventions for the following
which are listed as those for HYDROFLUORIC ACID. From the dermatologic
exposure the text lists HF as "highly corrosive to skin and mucous
membranes", and that the severity depends on "concentration of the HF,
duration of exposure and penetrability of the exposed tissue". The
treatment is listed as immediate flushing with water and the rubbing of
a Calcium Gluconate Gel (2.5%) into the burn area and injection of 10%
calcium gluconate into the affected area if pain persists. Acute
exposure [I'm assuming this this is referring to those that accidently
overturn a vat of the stuff on themselves] "may cause decalcification
and corrosion of the bone beneath the area of dermal burn". I would
assume that this would lead one to feel that they need to treat this
case with an amputation......
Now.... We have determined that this stuff (VITON) is dangerous. I can
hazzard a guess that the `flouroastimec' as listed is really a
mispronounciation or miswording of "Fluoroelastomer". This is the stuff
that is vulcanized with other substances to make VITON and is only
dangerous if found in it's state as a vulcanizate [read this as raw
material]. If you are worried about finding it in a burning car, it is
doubtful unless the car is carrying the fluoroelastomer in it's trunk
for some reason. The plastic car parts are vulcanized with it, but it
is (according to the literature from MicroMedix), not likely as cured
parts of the material do not decompose very readily.
SO..... now that we all know the facts about this chemical [which is by
far the least dangerous chemical released from a burning car due to the
small amounts], we can all sleep much easier :) and let this thread
die.... die.... die!
:-----------------{churto...@mediccom.norden1.com}----------------:
| Churton Budd, RN, EMTP |
| Staff Nurse, Emergency Services, Medical College of Ohio |
| Executive Officer, Toledo Area Disaster Medical Assistance Team |
| SYSOP: MedicCom BBS (Police, Fire, EMS, Disaster Med) |
| Co-SYSOP: NDMS BBS (National Disaster Medical System BBS) |
:------------------{MedicCom BBS: (419)389-6642}---------------------:
Stephen Hoffman
This "Fluorolastomec/Veton" stuff is the EMS equivilent of the Craig
Shergold chain mail that circulates periodically -- though spread by
well-meaning folks, it's turned into a well-meaning hoax. And like
the Craig Shergold mess, it crops up periodically -- it's taken on a
life of its own.
Please pass the attached information back to the folks that provided
you with the "Fluorolastomec/Veton" information.
I use protective clothing for MVAs, and SCBA for MVA/fires. (Or I
leave the extrication to someone wearing same.) There are other --
potentially far nastier -- combustion products produced in a car fire.
------------------------------ Opinionative -------------------------------
Stephen Hoffman, EMT-I hof...@xdelta.enet.dec.com
OpenVMS Engineering, Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH
--
North Eastern Technical Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 5150
Fall River, Ma 02723
1-508-675-0999
Date: 04-23-92
FLUOROELASTOMER
HYDROFLUORIC ACID WARNING
"CLARIFICATION"
Since the middle of MARCH 92 N.E.T.S. has been tracking the "acid burn"
story. The following is all the information received. Copies can be
obtained by anyone from us or Dave Woerner, I.E. Dupont, 1-800-441-9494.
The State of Alabama has denied ever issuing an "Intelligence Bulletin"
or it's originator of that bulletin, the junk yard it was received from,
and the wrecker driver who obtained it.
City of Hollywood, Florida researched all available literature and was
unable to verify any of the facts.
The Agency for Toxic Substances Directory stated to Hollywood Florida
Personnel, "extremely unlikely that conditions would ever be right for
the formation of H.F." "even if it were generated, the amount would be
so small so as not to present any significant hazard". I.E. Dupont
issued a warning for precautionary measures "in the worst case scenario".
Only one case of H.F. Acid burn is known, a lab worker's carelessness
caused burn, which when left unattended caused amputation of a finger.
Conclusions:
1) The most at risk are companies and personnel who routinely disassemble
parts to their basic components for examination purposes (like N.E.T.S.).
2) Fire department arson investigators are next.
3) Appraisers, body shops, firefighters, etc. are least likely to contact
H.F. Acid.
The risk is minimal, unless you cool the parts, humidity is present and you
disassemble the part to it's basic components exposing the seals, etc.
Safety Precaution:
Use either PVC or Neoprene gloves, wash all parts with plenty of water to
dilute any suspected acid, report any suspected contamination and seek
medical attention.
Dave Woerner Richard J. Pacheco
I.E. DUPONT N.E.T.S. Inc.
Don Sepanski
Thank you for the informative response. I posted one of the
responses recently. As a new Internet user I wasn't aware of the
history of this string. I have howerver been aware that this is
one of many riduculous rumors in the Fire Serivce. I am saving your
response for posing in other BBS's if the subject is raised. I have
seen it on Copmpuserve in the Safetynet Forum, and on the ICHIEFS
BBS. Thanks again Don Sepanski, Lt. Detroit Metro Airport FD