Re: At what PSI does a plastic soda bottle explode? (home CO2 carbonation)
Elmo
> Glass bottles explode from 70 to 100psi.
> Soda bottles can go way over 200 psi.
> Call Coca Cola's information line 800-438-2653
I'm on the line with them right now! They are very helpful!
They do the research for you, while you wait. So far, the woman says the
maximum psi the package can withstand is based on the volume of carbonation
and type of fluid it contains.
Digging more, she says every one of their carbonated PET containers from 20
ounces to 2 liters can withstand the industry standard 150 psi. In
addition, some Coke products have PET packaging that can withstand up to
250 psi (it all depends on the type of product in the package).
They're gonna send me via email WHICH bottles can withstand 250 psi as the
lady said she had to sent that over to the Research Department.
Of course, I'm using Trader Joe's (very thick) plastic bottles so I'm not
sure how much of this applies; but, maybe that explains why I had no
explosions at 150psi yesterday.
It's great to learn from everyone here. If you have any information about
when a soda bottle explodes, please post the reference here!
Stormin Mormon
compressors. Now, someone to make a manifold so we can
string together a bunch of two or three liter bottles.
Watch. Harbor Freight will have them next week.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Elmo" <dcdraf...@Use-Author-Supplied-Address.invalid>
wrote in message news:hpg73t$392$1...@tioat.net...
Elmo
> If you don't believe your own gauges, why would you believe anonymous
> blather posted on the net? If you think your gauges are messed up,
> try different gauges and see.
My gauges are old. I don't want blather. I want facts. And references.
I always search first, so, I already did my search and posted the results.
But maybe someone else out there is a better searcher than I am and can
provide a reference. Surely I'm not the best there is.
I did follow up on the suggestion to call Coke (even though I'm using
Trader Joe's bottles).
The Coke plastic PETE bottles (from 20 oz to 2 liters) are either tested to
150 psi or to 250 psi (I'm waiting for them to confirm by mail which ones).
It would be nice to have more references though as I can't be the best
Internest searchist out there....
LM
> At 150 PSI, they would be useful as expansion tanks for air
> compressors.
Interesting idea!
1. Buy copper pipe
2. Drill ten holes 2 inches apart in the steel pipe for the threaded bolts
3. Tap the ten holes in the galvanized steel pipe for the threaded bolts
3. Drill an axial hole through the center of ten threaded bolts
4. Drill a hole through the center of ten soda caps for the threaded bolts
5. Screw the ten threaded bolts into the caps and then into the steel pipe
6. Cap one end of the steel pipe & place a chuck on the other end
7. Chuck the other end of the steel pipe onto your CO2 regulator hose
6. Screw ten 2 liter soda bottles onto the ten caps bolted to the pipe
7. Turn on the C02 gas and pressurize the twenty liters to 150psi
8. Remove the chuck
9. You now have 20 liters of 150psi portable C02!
QUESTION:
How many liters of gas does a typical automotive car tire take anyway?
JIMMIE
Coke bottles used for water heater expansion tank
Jimmie
hal...@aol.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I can assure you having seen a sprite truck lose 100 or so cases out
the back of a tractor trailer, its roll up door must not of been
secured and his inventory fell out the back some bottles expoloded and
many leaked at the caps.
explosion appeared to depend on agitating bottles.
the police got upset when I called 911 I asked for the reps ID number
and pointed out the truck left, not knowing of the mess it was leaving
behind it, and all this debris were going to cause a accident.......
telpehone cop said he woud send a car.
wish I had a camera it would of been nice for americas funniest hme
videos or u tube.......
Stormin Mormon
figure a passenger car tire at maybe 3 to 5 liters of air
space, at 35 PSI. Starting at 150, you'd get some where.
When we used to be able to get freon tank conversions. I
found that a 30 pound tank starting at 150 PSI would fill
one car tire from zero to about 28 PSI.
Easier to make a sort of manifold by drilling through the
cap, and then fasten the cap to the maifold. Use close
nipple, and a fitting in and out of the soda pop cap. Then,
screw the bottle on. Eventually, you'd need a new cap or a
new bottle. But they are cheap enough.
Soda bottle as water pipe expansion tank sounds good. At
least you can see if it's water logged.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"LM" <xxxvte.lisa...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:hpg7rt$hoo$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
Don Klipstein
I would advise to have your pressurized bottle located in a location
where an explosion is tolerable. I would not bet my life or the house on
the pressure to be used to not exceed what it should not exceed, or the
bottle to not have a flaw or damage (possibly incurred after its
manufacture) that causes it to fail to withstand what it's supposed to
withstand.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
Eyeball-estimate - roughly a torus that on largish side has a
tubular cross section whose diameter is 20 cm, and with a 50 cm diameter
of the tube's "centerline". Volume of such a "largish tire" would in
cubic centimeters be 20 squared times pi/4 tomes 50 times pi, or 49,348
cubic centimeters. Divide by 1,000 to get liters - about 49.
That does sound to me large for a tire, maybe about right for a tire for
a large SUV. Also, most car and SUV tires are not inflated past 36 PSI.
50 liters at 36 PSI, if compressed to 150 PSI, takes up 12 liters.
One more thing - CO2 has slightly different dynamics in compressibility
than air does, due to its lower specific heat ratio. CO2 at 32 PSI in a
14 PSI atmosphere has the same "stiffness" as air would have at about 28.5
PSI. The vehicle's ride and "road feel" and how much the tires get mashed
by bumps and potholes would be as if the tires were underinflated about
11%. The specific heat ratio of a gas alters its compressibility when it
is compressed or expanded quickly enough to have its temperature respond
to the change in pressure rather than being held by heat conduction to the
ambient temperature.
However, the wear rate and wear pattern would be determined more by the
pressure alone. Compensating with a higher pressure would concentrate the
wear towards the "centerline" of the tread.
Also, pressure alone contributes to much of the stress that parts of the
tire must face and the shape of the tire and its contact patch when it is
supporting a load. This affects its traction on wet roadways at
higher speeds. These factors can severely limit use of higher pressure
just because the gas is more compressible in a "dynamic sense".
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Don Klipstein
JIMMIE wrote:
I would be leary about the ability to withstand 150 or 120 PSI being
valid at the highest temperature that can be encountered in this
application. I have had experience with boiling water causing PET soda
bottles to soften and go out of shape without any significant pressure at
all.
- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
Robert Green
<stuff snipped>
> I would be leery about the ability to withstand 150 or 120 PSI being
> valid at the highest temperature that can be encountered in this
> application. I have had experience with boiling water causing PET soda
> bottles to soften and go out of shape without any significant pressure at
> all.
Strongly agree!
My dad was a safety engineer and often testified at trials as an expert
witness. Soda bottles have a rich history of litigation. If they are
dropped just right in a store, for example, the cap can blow off with enough
force to put out an eye, and it's happened many times, it's not just a freak
one-off occurrence. Injuries have lessened with plastic v. glass bottles,
but they have not vanished entirely.
Much engineering has gone into designing safer bottles (the odd star-shape
of the bottom is designed to "pop" visibly when dropped and provide some
visual warning that the bottle is overpressured. The screw threads on the
cap are interrupted for the same reason). Still, there are soda bottle
accidents every year in the US. Many are caused by shelf stockers insisting
on filling high shelves beyond capacity, making a floor drop from
considerable height all but certain.
Overpressurizing them for fun with kids around seems to be a pretty silly
idea. But they do make passable silencers for pistols if attached
correctly.
Search for "soda bottle eye injury" on Google to find many tales like this:
"We have come across six patients of ocular injuries due to CBB explosions
during a period of nearly two years. All the cases had unilateral
involvement, right eye in four cases and left eye in two cases. All of these
patients had severe visual loss. Initial visual acuity, after the injury
ranged from loss of perception of light to finger counting at two meters
distance. In one case the eye was badly mutilated and had to be enucleated.
In five cases, the injury was caused by glass splinters, while in one case
it was due to the cap of the bottle. The injury due to the bottle cap was
interesting in that it left a clear impression of its crenated edge on the
skin of the lids and the cornea which gives some indication of the force of
the impact. In four cases the CBB exploded without provocation."
--
Bobby G.
LM
> Also, most car and SUV tires are not inflated past 36 PSI.
> 50 liters at 36 PSI, if compressed to 150 PSI, takes up 12 liters.
Then all we need are 6 two liter Coca Cola soda bottles!
We could just as easily fill them up with compressed air as with C02.
Sounds interesting.
I'm waiting for the you-tube video of the manifold!
Elmo
> the odd star-shape of the bottom is designed to "pop" visibly when
> dropped and provide some visual warning that the bottle is overpressured.
> The screw threads on the cap are interrupted for the same reason.
> In four cases the CBB exploded without provocation."
All very interesting especially the interrupted screw threads!
Never even noticed that until I just now took a look.
I suspect it makes the (over)pressurized air blow by the gaps, right?
Elmo
> show soda bottles being blown up by an air compressor
> and apparently also by a bike pump.
Interestingly, the only time the cap failed was when they heat treated the
coke bottle beforehand, as shown in in these tests:
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm
Interestingly, in general, the larger the bottle, the lower the burst
pressure.
For example, while the standard 2 liter coke bottle with label burst at 168
psi, the standard 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 185 psi.
Also interesting was the more gas (less liquid), the higher the burst
pressure; for example, that same 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 190 psi
when it contained significant air.
In their last reported test, a 2 liter PET bottle failed at a lower psi
than you'd expect (150 psi) after simulated use (held at 130 psi for 3
minutes). This test might indicate plastique fatigue occurs with repeated
high pressurization.
So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi seems
reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE bottles.
BTW, those numbers are all way higher than the "guesstimates" made here:
http://www.instructables.com/answers/how_much_psi_does_a_coke_bottle2l_hold/
Elmo
> So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi seems
> reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE bottles.
Despite both Coke's statements and independent tests showing coke bottles
exploding well almost at 200 psi, the mythbusters seem to intimate they
explode at the much lower 150 psi pressure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_%282005_season%29
So, I'm confused.
Elmo
> If you are pressure testing bottles, on NO account use air or gas, the
> bottle will explode violently at some point.
This reference backs up the observation that the smaller bottles rupture at
higher pressures ...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070609125950AAdiFbU
5 atmospheres is about 73.5 psi. I know that 16 ounce plastic coke bottles
are rated up to 175psi(11.9 atm). 2L bottles hold somewhat less. A coke can
holds about 100 psi(6.8atm). I don't know the rating of champagne bottles
but that the thick glass can withstand a marginally greater pressure than
the thin plastic. However the plastic will begin to stretch (audiblly) as
it nears failure and the glass will just shatter and send shards
scattering. I prefer the plastic.
Source(s):
The Coca Cola people told me... and I've also test popped a few first hand
as a demonstration as to ability of expanding gas to do work using liquid
nitrogen source in the capped bottles.
The coca cola contact is :
Gina M. L'Heureux
The Coca-Cola Company
Industry and Consumer Affairs
This answer, way too conservative, at least shows a mathematical process:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061204051635AAoQDT9
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
You would have to do a bit of research: You need to know the dimensions of
the bottle: Diameter and wall thickness.
You need to know the plastic it is made from and the corresponding tensile
strength (yield) of the material. Then you can update these calculations:
Assuming that the diameter of the bottle D=5 inches, wall thickness t =
0.025 inches, and the plastic has a yield strength of 5000 psi:
The hoop stress in the wall of the bottle = PD/2t
The longitudinal stress in the wall = PD/4t
For this pressure vessel situation, those 2 stresses are orthogonal and and
the principal stresses s1 and s2, the von mises failure theory suggests
that the stress levels are acceptable if: sqrt(s1^2 - s1*s2 +s2^2) < yield,
so:
sqrt((PD/4t)^2 - (PD/4t)*(PD/2t) + (PD/2t)^2) < 5000
expanding and collecting the LHS =>
0.433 P D / t < 5000
Filling in the example numbers, P < 57.7 psi
And ofcourse with anything safety related, a safety factor should be
applied in proportion to the risk severity. In this case an exploding
bottle probably would not cause death, but could cause serious injury - A
safety factor of 5 is likely appropriate... thus, assuming the example
numbers are about right, you should not pressurize to more than 57.7/5 =
11.5 psi (this is delta compared to 1 ATM)
But, of course, these guys are the most reliable I can find:
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm
Ecnerwal
pyrotechnic type) they were running 2 liters up to 160 psi regularly.
After a few trips it made a Very Loud Noise. But until then it held, and
the landings probably didn't aid structural integrity any (dents,
creases, scratches.) Then again, it may have been simple fatigue.
Your home carbonation system can benefit from the science that aids the
engineering of commercial carbonation systems - chill the liquid - it
dissolves gas better at lower pressures. Since you can keep the
pressures lower, so you are not stressing things as much. Wasting
product on the floor is messy and irritating, not to mention loud and
attractive to ants, etc.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Tegger
news:hpjvad$35o$1...@tioat.net:
Explosion occurs at 150psi.
I think your confusion comes from some poor wording at that Wiki site.
This quote:
"The Build Team also found that water cooler jugs, while able to launch
higher at the standard air/water ratio for water bottle rockets, were
weaker than standard soda bottles (which are designed to hold carbonated
liquids), failing at around 60 psi (413 kPa) less than the soda bottles
(90psi (600kPa) as opposed to 150psi (1000kPa))."
might read more clearly as:
"The Build Team also found that water cooler jugs were able to launch
higher at the standard air/water ratio for water bottle rockets. However,
the jugs were weaker than standard soda bottles, failing at around 90 psi
(600 kPa), much less than the soda bottles, which fail at 150psi
(1000kPa)."
The intermixing of English and Metric also adds to the confusion of the
Wiki page's wording.
--
Tegger
LM
> That does sound to me large for a tire, maybe about right for a tire for
> a large SUV. Also, most car and SUV tires are not inflated past 36 PSI.
> 50 liters at 36 PSI, if compressed to 150 PSI, takes up 12 liters.
What volume of gas is contained in an automotive tire:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-08/998945256.Ch.r.html
Those guys came up with 10 liters at 30psi, given:
* Inside diameter of rubber tire 15" = ~40 cm = 4 dm
* Outside diameter of rubber tire 21" = ~50 cm = 5 dm
* Width of steel wheel 6" = ~15 cm = 1.5 dm
* Pressure inside the rubber tire 30 psi
* Temperature 25° C
The volume inside the tire is the volume difference between two cylinders,
one representing the entire wheel/tire assembly and the other representing
just the wheel.
The volume of a cylinder is V = p × diameter × height where diameter is
twice the radius.
Note: For your particular tire and wheel assembly, you can use the Tire
Diameter and Circumference Calculator at:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tiresizescalc.html
They used the numbers below:
For just the steel wheel, the volume p × (4 dm ¸ 2)2 × 1.5 dm = 19 cubic
decimeters (i.e., 19 liters).
For just the rubber tire assembly, the total volume p × (5 dm ¸ 2)2 × 1.5
dm = 29 cubic decimeters (i.e., 29 liters).
The volume difference is just 10 liters (which means that the air in the
tire will mass about 26 grams).
Another volume calculation is here:
http://www.irday.com/html/Automotive%20tire%20wheel%20engineering/20080413/9827.html
Those guys came up with 30 liters for an average truck tire.
This volume calculation puts a car tire at 1 to 2 cubic feet of air:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/ar104.htm
BTW, what happens to the mass if we use a different gas than air, like
carbon dioxide?
Kat Rabun
> Note: For your particular tire and wheel assembly, you can use the Tire
> Diameter and Circumference Calculator at:
> http://www.csgnetwork.com/tiresizescalc.html
This tire volume calculator works better:
http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro_website/TechnicalPages/TRC%20calculator.htm
Brent
> This tire volume calculator works better:
> http://www.club80-90syncro.co.uk/Syncro_website/TechnicalPages/TRC%20calculator.htm
My P225/55R16 Traction=A, Temperature=A, Treadwear=480 car tires calculate
to 14.76 liters each (60 liters for four tires).
So a four-foot manifold with eight 2L Coke bottles hanging down would
completely fill one tire.
Elmo
From: Coca-Cola Support <coca-col...@na.ko.com
Thank you for contacting The Coca-Cola Company. We appreciate your interest
in our Company and our brands.
As you know, the amount of PSIs (pounds of pressure per square inch) that a
package is able to withstand depends on the volume of carbonation and is
based on the product as much as the package. At lower temperatures, the
pressure is lower, and at higher temperatures, the pressure is higher.
Carbonation is measured in "volumes." One volume of CO2 is equal to one
liter of carbon dioxide dissolved in one liter of liquid at standard
temperature and pressure. Two volumes are equal to two liters of gas in
one liter of liquid, etc. The amount of CO2 absorbed by the liquid is a
function of temperature and pressure. The colder the liquid and the higher
the pressure, the more CO2 it absorbs. One volume is equal to 14.7 lbs.
per square inch (psi) pressure at sea level and at 60º F.
All PET packages can withstand 150 PSIs - the industry standard. However,
some of our PET packaging can withstand 250 PSIs. Unfortunately, we will
not be able to provide a list of which ones can withstand 250 PSIs.
We certainly appreciate your interest in our production processes for our
brands. However, in order for us to remain competitive in our industry,
some information is considered proprietary, and we are unable to share it
with the public.
We hope this information is helpful. Please feel free to contact us again
should you have any other questions or comments.
Sincerely,
Johnetta
Industry & Consumer Affairs
The Coca-Cola Company
Lenp
Careful!
If the plastic bottles are right off the compressor the air will be hot and that's a game changer for the plastic bottle specifications. It may work if the bottle storage was well down stream, and away from the heated air, maybe at the point of use. While It may be tempting
to reuse bottle caps for a DIY manifold, I wonder if the cap 'seals' are for tamper proofing or do they aid in securing the cap with higher pressures? I don't know but it could be exciting to find out! I think metal, or solid plastic caps are available online that would be more suitable. I use 2L bottles, pressurized to about 50 PSI to dispense lubricant to a CNC router cutter when machining aluminum. So far there's been no problem at that pressure and I reused a cap. The lube is water based and there's been no plastic reactions either.
Might be a worthwhile idea idea to put the 'air bottle' in a PVC tube just in case there is a problem. I have my 'dispenser' bottle in a PVC pipe with a glued bottom cap and a slip fit top cap to allow pressure release and changing, yet still provide fluid containment which should help any embarrassing Uh Oh's ! Good luck, and post your success. Remember that there are 'no failures'. They are just a long list of things that don't work!
--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/at-what-psi-does-a-plastic-soda-bottle-explode-home-co2-ca-434649-.htm