Qualifications 'MB' and 'BMB'
Patrick D.A. Smith
Can anyone help me with this initiative test. I have to find out exactly
what 'MB' and 'BMB' stand for in relation to medical qualifications. I know
that am MB is a Bachelor of Medicine but why is the title the other way
round. I have no idea what a 'BMB' is.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Patrick.
Patrick Fall, M.Sc.
The medical degrees granted in various european countries varies greatly
among each other and within individual countries. For example Irish
schools grant a MB,BOb,BS degree (Bach. of Med.,Bach. of Obstetrics,
Bach. of Surgery) when you graduate. While the Royal College of Surgeons
in Dublin (a school of British origin) grants the MD degree. Some
schools in England grant the MBBS degree while others the MD degree.
Also some schools in Europe grant the MD degree as a Ph.D type of
degree, in other words they are not physicians but the equivalent of a
Ph.D degree in medicine. Confusing, but similar to the variations in
the US dental degrees DMD and DDS (equivalent degrees) and to some
extent the MD and DO degrees, although philosophical ideologies come
into play in the latter.
Now, I haven't seen an BMB degree before but I'm pretty sure it's a
variation on a medical degree or an abreviation of the degree like the
one I stated above from countries like Ireland. I'm really not sure.
HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!!!
PATRICK
Snoop Timmy Tim
Patrick D.A. Smith (patrick...@virgin.net) wrote:
: Can anyone help me with this initiative test. I have to find out exactly
: what 'MB' and 'BMB' stand for in relation to medical qualifications. I know
: that am MB is a Bachelor of Medicine but why is the title the other way
: round. I have no idea what a 'BMB' is.
The reason why the MB is the Bachelor of Mediicne, and not the BM, is
probably the same reason why the PhD is the Doctor of Philosophy and the
MD is the Doctor of Medicine.
In Latin, Philosophiae Doctoris, when translated to English is the Doctor
of Philosophy. But here in the US, the first colleges which awarded the
PhD had curricula firmly grounded in Latin and hence it was fitting to
grant the PhD. In many English universities, the PhD is awarded as the
DPhil. Many American colleges still award Bachelor of Arts degrees (BAs)
as ABs. I'm not certain if this is the exact reason why the Bachelor of
Medicine is MB, but it's a definite possibility.
BMB? I've never seen that. But I have seen MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine,
Bchelor of Surgery) and MBChB (Bachelor of Medicine, and Bachelor of
something).
Tim.
NYU Math '99
Ryan Maves
On 28 Dec 1997, Snoop Timmy Tim wrote:
> I'm not certain if this is the exact reason why the Bachelor of Medicine
> is MB, but it's a definite possibility.
Well, it's Latin, so the subject and possessive can be phrased in any
order without a change in meaning: "baccalaureus medicinae" and "medicinae
baccalaureus" both mean "bachelor of medicine", just as "medicinae doctor"
means "doctor of medicine" and is abbreviated as "M.D.".
> BMB? I've never seen that. But I have seen MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine,
> Bchelor of Surgery) and MBChB (Bachelor of Medicine, and Bachelor of
> something).
"Medicinae baccalaureus, chirurgiae baccalaureus". Bachelor of Medicine,
Bachelor of Surgery, just like MBBS.
Ryan C. Maves
University of Washington School of Medicine
-smit...@u.washington.edu
-http://weber.u.washington.edu/~smithers/
"Once again, a knife-wielding maniac has shown us the way."
Dan Gasparrini
Hello all, and a Happy New Year
The salutation Doctor is used for people who have an earned doctorate or
a professional doctoral degree. It is not a profession. Why do those
who have a M.B. and/or a Ch.B. use the salutation Doctor?
Just Curious,
Dan
dga...@mindspring.com
Ryan Maves
On 6 Jan 1998, Snoop Timmy Tim wrote:
> : The salutation Doctor is used for people who have an earned doctorate or
> : a professional doctoral degree. It is not a profession. Why do those
> : who have a M.B. and/or a Ch.B. use the salutation Doctor?
>
> Convention I guess. I read somewhere that in England a medical graduate
> (an MBBS or MBChB) is addressed as "Doctor," while those who have attained
> the MD insist they be called "Mister." I don't know how much truth is in
> that...
You're probably thinking of the British convention in which surgeons are
addressed as "Mister" instead of "Doctor". Originally a holdover from the
barber-surgeon days, when surgeons were considered technicians rather than
physicians, it became a sort of symbol of distinction within British
surgery, hence its persistence.
Ryan Maves
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Dan Gasparrini wrote:
> The salutation Doctor is used for people who have an earned doctorate or
> a professional doctoral degree. It is not a profession. Why do those
> who have a M.B. and/or a Ch.B. use the salutation Doctor?
Well, although the title "doctor" formally refers to anyone with a
doctorate, it is also a synonym for "physician" and has been considered
such for quite some time. Hence, holders of the MBBCh degree or its
equivalent are traditionally addressed as "doctor", although you could
argue that it isn't exactly a "doctorate" in the sense that the MD degree
is. Of course, a British MBBCh and an American or Canadian MD are the same
thing.
Put another way, when people say they're "going to the doctor", they
seldom if ever are referring to the local PhD in comparative literature.
Snoop Timmy Tim
Dan Gasparrini (dga...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: The salutation Doctor is used for people who have an earned doctorate or
: a professional doctoral degree. It is not a profession. Why do those
: who have a M.B. and/or a Ch.B. use the salutation Doctor?
Convention I guess. I read somewhere that in England a medical graduate
(an MBBS or MBChB) is addressed as "Doctor," while those who have attained
the MD insist they be called "Mister." I don't know how much truth is in
that...
Tim.
NYU Math '99
Alice
In article <Pine.A41.3.96a.98010...@dante22.u.washington.edu>, Ryan Maves <smit...@u.washington.edu> says:
>
>On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Dan Gasparrini wrote:
>
>> The salutation Doctor is used for people who have an earned doctorate or
>> a professional doctoral degree. It is not a profession. Why do those
>> who have a M.B. and/or a Ch.B. use the salutation Doctor?
>
>doctorate, it is also a synonym for "physician" and has been considered
>such for quite some time. Hence, holders of the MBBCh degree or its
>equivalent are traditionally addressed as "doctor", although you could
>argue that it isn't exactly a "doctorate" in the sense that the MD degree
>is. Of course, a British MBBCh and an American or Canadian MD are the same
>thing.
>
>Put another way, when people say they're "going to the doctor", they
>seldom if ever are referring to the local PhD in comparative literature.
I just want to add to this that the reason a medical degree in Britain is MBBS/MBChB
(bachelor of medicine and bachelor of surgery) is because it is a first (i.e. undergraduate)
degree. It does however convey just as much skill and training as the American MD.
In the UK you only get a doctorate if you have done a research degree, a PhD or
an MD. A postgraduate course which is taught rather than purely research will not
result in this qualification.
Alice
2nd year medical student (UK)
Alice
Now I'm replying to myself.........
Anyway, I want to correct some misconceptions I saw earlier in this thread:
1) there is no medical school in the UK which awards MD as the medical degree. It
is always MBBS or MBChB.
2) MD is not just a PhD in medicine. Anyone with an MD will also be a qualified physician
with one of the two above degrees. An MD is a clinical research degree, as opposed
to a PhD which will usually be basic science. I believe there are differences in duration,
intensity and prestige also.
3) and to be really pedantic, there are very few places which award the DPhil rather than
the PhD - Oxford is the only one I know of.
Alice
Dan Gasparrini
Hello Alice,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query. All you say is
correct, and has been my impression for some time. The British
physicians with whom I have worked are, indeed, as qualified to practice
as any American or Canadian physician.
The degree, MD or DO, to my knowledge does make one a physician by
preparation, and those individuals need to pass boards in order to
practice medicine. It does not make them THE doctor, only A doctor. To
imply that a doctor practices only medicine is misleading.
The professional degree conferred upon physicians is the at the same
level conferred on Podiatrists, Chiropractors, Veterinarians, and
Optometrists and is not an academic degree, but a professional one.
The prestige, in this country, is associated with the earning ability of
the holders of these professional degrees.
I guess the issue really is that "DOCTOR" is NOT a profession, but
merely a salutation, and those who insist on being called doctor without
a doctorate in whatever field, are being misleading at best, and pompous
at worst. I know many nurses, paramedics, and respiratory therapists
who are doctors, but do not have a license to practice medicine.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I wish you all the best in
the New Year.
Dan Gasparrini
dga...@mindspring.com
Snoop Timmy Tim
Alice (zch...@ucl.ac.uk) wrote:
: 1) there is no medical school in the UK which awards MD as the medical degree. It
: is always MBBS or MBChB.
I thought the Royal College of Surgeons, Ireland, awarded the MD. In
fact, I think it's even mentioned on their website (www.rcsi.ie).
: 2) MD is not just a PhD in medicine. Anyone with an MD will also be a qualified physician
: with one of the two above degrees. An MD is a clinical research degree, as opposed
: to a PhD which will usually be basic science. I believe there are differences in duration,
: intensity and prestige also.
Why is the American system so different from the British system? I don't
understand why in the US we are required to go through essentially eight
years of education, while the British are only required six (or is it
four?)?
: 3) and to be really pedantic, there are very few places which award the DPhil rather than
: the PhD - Oxford is the only one I know of.
:)
Tim.
NYU Math '99
Paras Naik
What's up..
There seems to be some confusion with regard to British Medical
Qualifications versus those granted in North America. As a Canadian, and
also a third year Medical Student at the University of Glasgow Medical
School (Largest Medical School in the UK) ; I think I can shed some light
on this issue. Essentially in the United Kingdom of Great Britain &
Northern Ireland, all 28 Medical Schools will confer a Bachelors degree
in Medicine & Surgery, notably one of the following :
1) M.B.,Ch.B. (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Chirgury [Latin for
Surgey]) (Most English Medical Schools, along with all Scottish Medical
Schools confer this degree - IE: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, ect)
2) M.B., B.S., (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery) - (IE: Most
medical schools in London confer this degree (UMDS, King's..ect.)
3) B.M., Ch.B. (same as 1) above) - this qualification is reserved for
graduates of the Oxford Medical School in England
4) B.M., B.S. (same as 2) above) - this qualification is reserved for
graduates of the Nottingham Medical School in England
5) B.M. - this qualification is awarded to graduates of the Southampton
Medical School in England
6) M.B., Ch.B., B.A.O. - this qualification is awarded to Medical
graduates of the University of Belfast, the B.A.O. degree which stands
for Bachelor of Applied Obstetrics is tradionally given to all Irish
Medical Graduates, although this university is in the United Kingdom, it
is located in Northern Ireland and thus shares this tradition with it's
Irish counterparts
* Along with the Medical Degree which is confered upon graduation at
British Medical Schools, a provisional registration with the General
Medical Council of Great Britain is also awarded
All of these degree programs for the most part are of 5 years duration,
comprising of 2 pre-clinical years followed by 3 clinical years versus
Irish medical schools, which are primarily 6 years in duration,
consisting of 1 pre-medical year, followed by the same 5 year scheme as
that in Great Britain. Exceptions to the 6 year program are made in
Ireland, and are of relevence to those considering the Royal College of
Surgeons of Ireland Medical School.
Snoop Timmy Tim wrote:
>
> Alice (zch...@ucl.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> : 1) there is no medical school in the UK which awards MD as the medical degree. It
> : is always MBBS or MBChB.
>
> I thought the Royal College of Surgeons, Ireland, awarded the MD. In
> fact, I think it's even mentioned on their website (www.rcsi.ie).
>
The M.D. (Doctor of Medicine) degree is awarded in the United Kingdom as
a Clinical Research Degree and can be attained only by way of original
clinical work and a thesis at most of the larger British Medical Schools.
This degree is not required for mainstream British Medical practise as
either a Physician or Surgeon, and is mostly sought after by Academically
orientated Medical Doctors.
The Royal College of Surgeons of Ireland, as it's undergraduate medical
degree DOES NOT confer the degree of M.D. (Doctor of Medicine), instead
it awards the following degrees :
M.B., B.Ch., B.A.O., LRCSI, LRCPI
which stands for Bachelor of Medicine, Chirgury (Surgery), Applied
Obstetrics, and the honary titles of Licienciate of the Royal College of
Surgeons and Physicians of Ireland. This program is a 6 year program,
without a previous undergraduate degree, or 5 years in the instance that
the entering student has completed a bachelors degree prior to
matriculation at the college. There may be other admission rules which
apply - please refer to homepage (www.rcsi.ie)
Also realize that the abb. M.D. can stand for many things which is often
misinterupted, however speaking on a general level mean the same thing :
1) Doctor of Medicine
2) Medical Doctor
3) Medical Degree
4) Medicaine Docteaur (translated version of #1) - (Or something like
that is awarded at medical schools based in countries whose primary
languange is not english (IE: Mexico, Italy, DR, ect)
> : 2) MD is not just a PhD in medicine. Anyone with an MD will also be a qualified physician
> : with one of the two above degrees. An MD is a clinical research degree, as opposed
> : to a PhD which will usually be basic science. I believe there are differences in duration,
> : intensity and prestige also.
>
comments above
> Why is the American system so different from the British system? I don't
> understand why in the US we are required to go through essentially eight
> years of education, while the British are only required six (or is it
> four?)?
British Medical Schools as mentioned above are primarily a 5 year degree
course. I agree in saying that it is essentially ridiculous to think
that North American's should undertake 7-8 years of studying to finally
receive a primary medical degree. Which is why I choose to come to the
United Kingdom to study medicine in the first place from Canada, the
biggest bonus being able to graduate at the age of 22!
In addition, a vast majority of British medical schools, offer their 2nd
and 3rd year medical students, the oppurtunity to take an year out and
pursue a Bachelors degree in either the Life Sciences (B.Sc.) or Medical
Sciences (B.Med.Sci).
Finally, other responses have raised some concern over the title of Dr.
and Mr. used in British Medical/Surgical Practise. The title of Dr. is
awarded to all medical graduates in the UK, however, upon passing the
FRCS (Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons) qualification which is
offered at only 4 sites within the UK and Ireland (Notably England,
Glasgow (Scotland), Edinburgh (Scotland) or Dublin (Ireland)), with only
a 9% pass rate over 3 steps, the title of Mr. is given to a Surgeon. I
had a surgical block a month ago, and even I found it weird to call my
consultant Mr. X. instead of Dr. X. In most cases, the title of FRCS,
enables the surgeon to pursue a consultant surgeon position, which is
similar to a Cheif of Surery in the USA. Physicians, always retain the
title of Dr., even if they hold a Consultant position in a Hospital.
I hope this provides clarification into this matter!
Take Care...
Paras Naik
University of Glasgow Medical School
Class of 2000 (MBChB)
Randall Viola, RN,C CRRN
How about PhD. RN? Explain your a Doctor in Nursing to the kiddies